Always a great watch. I used to have all this old hardware. But my dad got rid of it when I was younger calling it junk cuz he bought it. Nothing is obsolete.
lmao today i came accros a similar issue and i thougth there must be something like this tape, its crazy to go to youtube and literaly find a video of what you were thinking. awesome video thumbs up!
You can reface the rubber pads on the keys by “dragging” the contact across a piece of paper. It removes the shine and restores their original functionality. My 2001 was an absolute nightmare before I did this!
Yup. This is because the surface builds up a layer of non-conductive gunk because of the rubber out-gassing. You can also use a bit of iso-alcohol if you have observed spills or the gunk is particularly nasty. The traces themselves, particularly if they are that black carbon kind, need cleaning as well, residue builds up on them as well, which then ends up back on the rubber pads = back to square one.
Yes, the official term is "conductive adhesive". You don't technically have to solder it down in this case but I would highly recommend it. If you needed to do a field repair though, having the option to not solder could come in very handy.
Do you document all your fixes? I dont remember where I saw this, but it was a good idea. All the fixes, bodge wires added, etc, were printed on paper. Then that paper was folded and put in a plastic sleeve adhered out of the way, inside the computer. This way one could go back later and quickly read why, what, and how it was modified at a later date. Very useful if one forgot what was done, or the machine is sold/given to someone else.
I can't feel good about this kind of repair in my own work. I'm glad it works for you, but I will always have a roll of .02mm and .01mm diameter insulated copper wire near my workbench. I just see too many things fail because of "sticky thing dried out" and wire can't dry out.
Well, that's why I soldered it down. I wouldn't want to rely on the adhesive alone. I don't like the idea of using it without solder, but there are some cases like membrane keyboard where that's not an option.
Yeah, him soldering it definitely makes it fairly permanent. The adhesive can still fall and its still anchored. Its not pretty, but definitely functional without compromising the PCB.
I don't get it. The adhesive is conductive? How? If it isn't, how was it working before you soldered it down? If it is, then how is the next pad in between not shorted? I'm afraid of the adhesive shrinking and blank copper shorting a thing out. And i'm not sure how this stack of adhesive and copper tape and paper and on the end solder is thinner than magnet wire and some kapton tape or glue.
Been meaning to get some copper tape for some time now. Not just for repairs. Had an idea to make some xmass decorations with some copper tape , Kapton and LEDs.
Thin coated wire from an old transformer or electric motor winding would also work if copper tape is not handy, just be sure to remove some of the coating at both ends of the wire with sandpaper or an open flame before soldering.
A "prettier" repair might be to drill out the points where the traces meet and run wire links on the other side of the pcb as it's often done on single-sided stuff. It would be more time-consuming though, and this is Shelby's Perpetual Commodore Nightmare
I had thought of doing that actually. But it would be really hard to make any solution that involved soldering wires as flush as the tape was. And with the key holder "block" that goes over everything the vertical space is really important.
I cannot tell you just how much stuff gets destroyed trying to make it a half a percent better. See, it's not JUST the time you lose doing such silly repairs, it is the can of worms you are opening trying to fix something that ain't broke and is already of questionable quality and was never designed to be field serviceable. One of these channels uploaded a video of himself destroying a C128 because he decided to recap the 128 because, well, reasons. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
This seems like a real bodge. I would have left the backing tape present in this area, or better yet, take some of the backing tape and wrap it around this section perpendicular to the direction of the copper tape so it had no chance of conducting. In all honesty, I’d have probably gone with using some very fine, varnished wire to do this job.
2:31 Oh no, dont tell me the unplugged keyboard isn't working! lol 2:56 Followed up by placing the upper portion of the keyboard the wrong way. Rough day I presume lol
I'm planning on using some of this stuff to reattach the rf shields on my intellivision. Assuming I can successfully remove the massive blob that is attaching four cart slot pins directly to the bottom shield without wrecking it 😬
A PET is the major hole in my collection! Shelby, quick question - I;m old enough to remember these things when they came out, and I remember seeing some PETs set up with the dual floppy between the monitor and the computer. It seems like it's sized and tapered to fit there, but I cannot find any photos of that sort of setup on the net. I'm not sure how the monitor would even connect. Does it seem like such a setup is possible? It's odd that I remember seeing it, but sometimes memory plays tricks.
Disable those lines (carefully with an exacto knife) and then expose fresh traces (if you don't have an exposed pick up or test point already) and start tracing with piggy-back wires. If you want to use or are forced to use this method (copper tape) but don't have the room to populate that many traces in one spot, use kapton tape to layer stack these copper tape traces. Be sure to measure existing, similar traces in the circuit to figure out the right resistance, so that you can mimic the same numbers with your repair. Might not matter, but in some cases, it does.
The problem with adhesive, conductive or not, is that it ages. So, you rather have to solder it, and yes, if that protective covering isn't removed, it could peel off and end up where you don't want it. As unlikely as it is for a PET to be jostled about, you don't want to discover things have moved inside, post-reassembly.
right away I noticed I could toss my pesky meds and just use the box for parts ........ clever ...................very clever just because of that alone 15 seconds into the video I stopped it to "like" and "subscribe" etc etc
personally if I didn't learn of copper tape, I would have just used metal duct working tape and only take the backing off where I needed electrical contact to be made
(2:30) Well, you disconnected the keyboard before performing the multimeter tests, so naturally, shorting any key will produce nothing. We can even visibly see there's nothing connected to the PCB.
Where'd you get the awesome high-torque Ifixit(?) screwdriver shown here?: th-cam.com/video/y61EegqNvOI/w-d-xo.html I don't see it for sale on their site.
Best advice I ever got when it comes to stuff like this is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That extends to soldering when tape will do. Getting it a half a percent "better" could have easily resulted in lifting those contacts.
2:30 maybe it's not giving key presses because it's not plugged in :p
You know... there's a wireless-module on the right side of the PCB, just behind the multimeter! 🤣
I seen that too
Always a great watch. I used to have all this old hardware. But my dad got rid of it when I was younger calling it junk cuz he bought it. Nothing is obsolete.
Life saver! I removed the battery capacitors on my Game Boy color and the copper came off on one of them. This is going to help a lot !
I'm glad you make these smaller videos with repair suggestions.
These videos have been a great addition to my free time.
Love that i was searching about copper tape and ended up in a video with a Commodore :D
and the video was helpfull, thank you
Excellent video, very informative and interesting. I want to get some copper tape.
lmao today i came accros a similar issue and i thougth there must be something like this tape, its crazy to go to youtube and literaly find a video of what you were thinking. awesome video thumbs up!
2:30 try with the keyboard actually conected for better results :)
You can reface the rubber pads on the keys by “dragging” the contact across a piece of paper. It removes the shine and restores their original functionality. My 2001 was an absolute nightmare before I did this!
Yup. This is because the surface builds up a layer of non-conductive gunk because of the rubber out-gassing. You can also use a bit of iso-alcohol if you have observed spills or the gunk is particularly nasty. The traces themselves, particularly if they are that black carbon kind, need cleaning as well, residue builds up on them as well, which then ends up back on the rubber pads = back to square one.
Commodore pet vid on a friday? HELL YES!!!
thanks, fr big help made me fix my new Keyboard which i dindt even get to used for 5 months
so the glue on that copper tape is also conductive? or am I missing something here?
Yes, the official term is "conductive adhesive". You don't technically have to solder it down in this case but I would highly recommend it. If you needed to do a field repair though, having the option to not solder could come in very handy.
You’re right, I am very fond of extra stick-on traces.
I love my pet.
The pet:
READY
⬜
Imma see if I can build a whole circuit with it wow it would be great to use instead of wires awesome for management ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
2:34
"If it's not working, double check if it's plugged in."
Why not drill little holes in the middle of each nodes of these silver traces and add vias with cables underneath the board ?
Do you document all your fixes? I dont remember where I saw this, but it was a good idea. All the fixes, bodge wires added, etc, were printed on paper. Then that paper was folded and put in a plastic sleeve adhered out of the way, inside the computer. This way one could go back later and quickly read why, what, and how it was modified at a later date. Very useful if one forgot what was done, or the machine is sold/given to someone else.
That's not a bad idea.
V nice idea.. Aptly .... Great job..
I'm gonna need this to repair my bidet.
Quarantine has not been kind to it.
I can't feel good about this kind of repair in my own work. I'm glad it works for you, but I will always have a roll of .02mm and .01mm diameter insulated copper wire near my workbench. I just see too many things fail because of "sticky thing dried out" and wire can't dry out.
Well, that's why I soldered it down. I wouldn't want to rely on the adhesive alone. I don't like the idea of using it without solder, but there are some cases like membrane keyboard where that's not an option.
Yeah, him soldering it definitely makes it fairly permanent. The adhesive can still fall and its still anchored. Its not pretty, but definitely functional without compromising the PCB.
Kapton tape down to make a base, copper tape over it, then another kapton tape on top. It will not come out in your life time.
Thanks for the tip
I'm gonna use this method to try to fix a trace on my dryer control board. Thoughts?
I don't get it. The adhesive is conductive? How? If it isn't, how was it working before you soldered it down? If it is, then how is the next pad in between not shorted? I'm afraid of the adhesive shrinking and blank copper shorting a thing out. And i'm not sure how this stack of adhesive and copper tape and paper and on the end solder is thinner than magnet wire and some kapton tape or glue.
Been meaning to get some copper tape for some time now. Not just for repairs. Had an idea to make some xmass decorations with some copper tape , Kapton and LEDs.
Thin coated wire from an old transformer or electric motor winding would also work if copper tape is not handy, just be sure to remove some of the coating at both ends of the wire with sandpaper or an open flame before soldering.
I keep several colored spools of prototyping wire on hand.
A "prettier" repair might be to drill out the points where the traces meet and run wire links on the other side of the pcb as it's often done on single-sided stuff. It would be more time-consuming though, and this is Shelby's Perpetual Commodore Nightmare
I had thought of doing that actually. But it would be really hard to make any solution that involved soldering wires as flush as the tape was. And with the key holder "block" that goes over everything the vertical space is really important.
I cannot tell you just how much stuff gets destroyed trying to make it a half a percent better.
See, it's not JUST the time you lose doing such silly repairs, it is the can of worms you are opening trying to fix something that ain't broke and is already of questionable quality and was never designed to be field serviceable.
One of these channels uploaded a video of himself destroying a C128 because he decided to recap the 128 because, well, reasons. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
@LostElectron No because this is a single-sided board, not multi-layer.
@@tarstarkusz Okay, now I'm curious. What happened?
@@tarstarkusz This. Also, if you can't recap something without breaking it you shouldn't be making youtube videos.
6:20. Yes, that was the bit that was driving me nuts watching it. Because I know if *I* had done this I know it would have shorted.
This seems like a real bodge.
I would have left the backing tape present in this area, or better yet, take some of the backing tape and wrap it around this section perpendicular to the direction of the copper tape so it had no chance of conducting.
In all honesty, I’d have probably gone with using some very fine, varnished wire to do this job.
Great video, thank you but you REALLY wanted to use that copper tape you had lying around hehe!
Great video! Do you know if I could use copper tape to repair carbon contact of my musical keyboard?
McGyver would prefer to use a chewing gum wrapper, but he's very impressed nevertheless ;-)
hows about a link to that handy dandy flux pen looking thing?
2:31 Oh no, dont tell me the unplugged keyboard isn't working! lol
2:56 Followed up by placing the upper portion of the keyboard the wrong way. Rough day I presume lol
I'm planning on using some of this stuff to reattach the rf shields on my intellivision. Assuming I can successfully remove the massive blob that is attaching four cart slot pins directly to the bottom shield without wrecking it 😬
A PET is the major hole in my collection! Shelby, quick question - I;m old enough to remember these things when they came out, and I remember seeing some PETs set up with the dual floppy between the monitor and the computer. It seems like it's sized and tapered to fit there, but I cannot find any photos of that sort of setup on the net. I'm not sure how the monitor would even connect. Does it seem like such a setup is possible? It's odd that I remember seeing it, but sometimes memory plays tricks.
You may be thinking of a PET 8296-D. The boxy PETs like this have the monitor permanently attached.
excuse this off topic question .. could you use this tape on a rear window defroster (in a car)?? Connectors are soldered on strips inside the glass
I have had moderate success with copper tape cut with a vinyl cutter.
Great video, as always.
So can you solder to the copper tape? If so I wonder if it's possible to use them to replace solder pads.
Yes you can. but I would use some UV curable solder mask to make sure the tape stays in place.
so if a circuit board had battery corrosion and cleaning it exposed some copper traces in spots whats the best fix?
Disable those lines (carefully with an exacto knife) and then expose fresh traces (if you don't have an exposed pick up or test point already) and start tracing with piggy-back wires.
If you want to use or are forced to use this method (copper tape) but don't have the room to populate that many traces in one spot, use kapton tape to layer stack these copper tape traces.
Be sure to measure existing, similar traces in the circuit to figure out the right resistance, so that you can mimic the same numbers with your repair. Might not matter, but in some cases, it does.
how did you fix the short? were you able to reposition it, or did you need to trim out some of the tape?
you might have mentioned it in a earlier vid , but what is that you 8-track player is sitting on ?
Cool but seems kind of fiddly compared to using magnet wire.
Великолепно, ещё и липкая, очень удобно !
The problem with adhesive, conductive or not, is that it ages. So, you rather have to solder it, and yes, if that protective covering isn't removed, it could peel off and end up where you don't want it. As unlikely as it is for a PET to be jostled about, you don't want to discover things have moved inside, post-reassembly.
What brand flux you use?
One can use silver solder and scrape a little and reconnect a few drops of mask and its done :)
Excellent tip :)
@2:33 it's not plugged in
nice
We have clearance, Clarence. Roger, Roger...what's our vector, Victor?
Basically solder wick - flux + glue
Seems like the sort of thing that would benefit from someone with the skills to design a replacement double sided PCB.
In principle, it's not hard to do. It's just time consuming, and the board won't be cheap.
right away I noticed I could toss my pesky meds and just use the box for parts ........ clever ...................very clever
just because of that alone 15 seconds into the video I stopped it to "like" and "subscribe" etc etc
2:35 maybe cause you unplugged it
personally if I didn't learn of copper tape, I would have just used metal duct working tape and only take the backing off where I needed electrical contact to be made
I really hate modern ones where the board is just silicone membrane with conductive paint. Why can't we go back to nice pcb keyboards?
Hmmm.... I'll bear this in mind for next time I need to botch up a PCB.
why not just drill a hole and connect it at the other side ? this seem a bit overcomplicated
I had the same problem with my pet keyboard.
(2:30) Well, you disconnected the keyboard before performing the multimeter tests, so naturally, shorting any key will produce nothing. We can even visibly see there's nothing connected to the PCB.
design a replacement PCB!
PCBWAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
Wouldn't be too difficult. Just teadeous and time consuming to make sure all the measurements are correct. It wouldn't be a cheap board though.
Where'd you get the awesome high-torque Ifixit(?) screwdriver shown here?:
th-cam.com/video/y61EegqNvOI/w-d-xo.html
I don't see it for sale on their site.
It's from an older version of their kit. I think ebay would probably be your best bet if you want one now.
Best advice I ever got when it comes to stuff like this is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That extends to soldering when tape will do. Getting it a half a percent "better" could have easily resulted in lifting those contacts.
Turn down the power on your iron.
Why would you even be worrying about fixing this dinosaur...
My mother used copper tape when she used to make stained glass lamp shades .
When she got tired of that hobby, I got the copper tape .