Overheating mystery solved for John Deere/Hitachi Excavator 35zts
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- I go through the most common reasons for overheating on an excavator. This one was bugging me because I could not find the reason for the longest time. I thought it was the waterpump, but soon found out it was in fact not. 1999 john deere 35 zts. The cooling system on this machine is the same for most machines around those years. The fan belt was spinning at all times, never had a problem with the alternator, leaving it hard to diagnose the problem. New crankshaft pulley and the problem went away.
I’m a Retired Union Boilermaker and we use to make our own gaskets from a roll of material. But then in the late 1990s we started using Red high temperature silicone. On the burner doors. So if a liquid gasket is good for a Power Plant Burner I’m sure it’s good for equipment like that. You did a nice job 👍.
Good diagnosis, that was a tricky one. Nice to see the process of figuring it out, thanks for posting!
Hey gringo .you are awesome buddy. I been trying fix my 50d for long time . I'd even took my machine to a John deere shop and they never found the way of fix my deere. But you men just give me the solution . Thank very much bro .god bless you.
👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Diagnosing the problem is 90 percent of the battle.. Many guys throw parts into it until they get lucky or give up. Commonsense and staying up to date on your machinery goes a long way. Great job Jesse.
Very informative for anyone that owns this machine, as is all of his videos. Thanks Jesse
thanks
You had to tear that thing all the way down before you could figure out what was causing it to overheat. Great job and video!
Excellent video. One other thing you could check before ripping things apart is the strength of your coolant.
you are a very meticulous and thorough mechanic and it's a pleasure to listen and watch you thank you
Even if I get gaskets with something I always use RTV. Every time I don't it leaks. For over a decade now I don't even buy gaskets for stuff like valve covers and water pumps (used). Glad you got this sorted out. can't believe that crank pulley came apart like that! Seems like one of those expensive-only-because-they-engineered-it-to-fail kind of dealership items..
I see some other people picked up on it as well but as soon as he showed the new pulley it was obvious it was a combination harmonic balancer/ pulley. I’m used to dealing with balancers in old mopar engines but I have thankfully not had any issues with my skid steer. I’ll have to look and see if it has the same pulley balancer setup. I suspect so now. Great informative video.
I taught jesse when he was young how to fix cars and stuff I didn't do it for him and now 15 years later I ask him how to fix things lol makes a dad proud
you should make one of your videos public so people can start seeing it
right here
@@jmuller86 buddy of mine bought a brand new one and had issues with 10 times and parts were so exspensive he gave up and bought a kubota excavator and had great luck with it plus the kubota u18-4 excavator he paid $17,100 wich his deere 35 excavator cost him $65,900
For anyone whos interested, he has 2 videos up now about making a lamp and lamp shade on the lathe
Dads sure are great things to have and rarely get any credit or thought...
A good kid starts with a good Dad!
It's amazing how Jesse shows no fear of tearing into something and seems not to have many problems??? I usually get into a real mess that takes months to figure out the problem, find or make the parts, and reassemble???
Just for future reference, if you need a gasket or gasket material especially on something the size of this water pump you can always use a cereal box, just cut out one side and lay it on the pump, use a ball peen hammer or some metal that has a round edge like a decent size box wrench and gently tap the edge to outline the pumps edge and also any inner holes then cut out the gasket, a Lil formagasket on the sides to help it stick and it works great, you can even make 2-3 and double it up.
i used to diecast those, we used a mazak alloy (zinc-based alloy) we diecast everything from foot pedals to the hydraulics heads, very hot work,i still have the burns from an accident with it,took months of A&E appointments to fix,love your vids jesse, came here from andrews vids ,as an old sand moulder, die caster, welder, i love these vids right up my street,
Excellent work replacement crank pulley without welding,the correct way of maintenance repair good work👍🏻🇬🇧
When I was a lad I was taught how to cut gaskets, I'm also not a fan of modern silicone based sealants and being able to make a proper gasket has solved many similar problems for me.
Once worked with a guy used rtv on gaskets. Must be a suspenders and belt kind of thing. I thought it was silly but he said it made it easier to repair later on if needed.
I cringe when I do would on newer cars that use RTV only in a lot of places. I agree that they don’t seem nearly as good as a real gasket.
Fair play to you mate. You did it. A bit of sagely advice from an old timer; Your engine overheats aftyer using the machine for half an hour. You have a look inside the engine box to investigate. Which part do you change to fix it? Answer, the right part. It's all about the troubleshooting. Methodical troubleshooting. That is where the experts come into their own. That is how you save big bucks on time and parts. Be methodical and you will get there. Eliminate things until you see the problem. Otherwise you are just firefighting.Keep up the good work.
A very informative and thorough explanation of the process of troubleshooting and fixing the problem. Peace and Good Fortune to you and your family.
Nice repair job ! It's great to have you tell us about the details. thanks
thanks, I am doing a few of these videos because when I went to look for answers on here, there was none. For some reason repairing machines is just not popular on youtube.
@@jmuller86 ty
That's a crazy problem, I have never seen a pully like that. I think I would have welded that.
You should check your hitachi. If the fan spins freely it could be a problem, turning the fan turned my whole motor when I got the new pulley
@@jmuller86 Yeah, good call. I wouldn't have even known to look for that.
@@AndrewCamarata That's what a lot of people are saying. I wonder what it actually is?? I don't think it's supposed to slip at all. Maybe it's a vibration damper, or maybe a shear point. Otherwise, I don't know why it's not just a solid pulley.
It's not supposed to slip, it's just a weakly designed bond between the center hub and the outer pulley of the harmonic balancer. Certain engines over the years were prone to this, in the late 80s some front wheel drive Buick & Jeep 6 cylinders come to mind. They were common enough that parts stores used to stock aftermarket replacements. It can also be an issue in high RPM race motors.
Guys its a silicon filled clutch, once it is spinning it slips at low temps to allow warm up then engaging more and more with temperatures to keep pace with engine load.
Smh.
I had that happen on a ford ranger, well almost. The damper failed, and the pulley, over time, was moving back toward the block. One day, the truck wouldn't start. I started trouble shooting, and one symptom was the ignition timing, and the sensor. So, I replaced the sensor. It would fits, and the old one had a huge groove in it. I finally realized the pulley ground into the sensor until it finally ate the whole magnetic part. I had to weld pull brackets on the pully to get the puller to work, but dang, that was a weird one. Yours is a strange one too. Good work!
you have a good head on your shoulders sir and can figure out problems and I guess you can thank Dad for helping you along.
Always satisfying to take on a job and complete it successfully. Great work Jesse
This happened to my girlfriends Pathfinder. Only symptom was squeaking sound at idle. Played hell figuring it out. Finally removed the serpentine belt, fired it up, and the pulley flew off into the frame. So yeah - these things break.
Nice fix. Hope it helps others having the same problem.
A side note, Jesse. That tooth works like a champ!! Great job of troubleshooting and replacing only the part that was needed. #Dan Wheeler. What goes around comes around, and you're living proof of that! Great video!!
Great diagnosis and work on the water pump clutch pulley!
Good advice about the key. It might have been worth pointing out that if the eccentric weight on the pulley centre is down when removing it the key will already be at the top so it has no chance to fall out.
Your harmonic damper is broken, nearly all harmonic dampers have a rubber insert in them. There is a guy in NZ who repairs them by dismantling them and he presses and glues in a special rubber insert. This makes the harmonic damper like new. The bigger they are the more heavy duty rubber they have. Without a harmonic damper doing it's job there is a good chance your crankshaft will break. This is a problem on all vehicles as they get older. All crankshafts have some sort of vibration even from new. The damper or bottom pulley is a vital piece of equipment. They have to be perfectly balanced and the rubber smooths out and absorbs the vibration from the crankshaft. Hope that helps. If your motor is old but in good condition but runs a little rough it might be the harmonic damper. It is very common for this to be overlooked.
Must be why motorcycles and many utility engines don't have them, no torsion dampers are not a necessity on all engines..
MerlinxPV those small engines don’t last as long either.
@@smathet7766 Comparing rpm and actual output per liter the longevity of the non dampened crankshaft engines is a best a minor factor of comparison, your comment would be valid if those non dampened engines failed by "breaking their crankshaft", such is not the case though.
@@Peter-V_00 They are balanced but there crankshafts are so short they don't have the need for a harmonic balancer like cars and trucks.
@@trevorburton2718 An inline 4 is an inline 4 whether it's in a boat, a motorcycle or an excavator, once again your theory is a non starter, just an FYI, those Yanmar engines common in mini excavators are 3 cylinders.
When you were talking about dropping that pin down in the motor I shuddered and it took me back to high school. I had a Cobra Jet Torino and the engine blew up in it. I pulled it and rebuilt everything and when I was putting it back in I was on top of the motor putting in the distributor. I didn't see it wasn't paying attention or whatever but there was a socket laying there and it rolled in the hole the distributor goes in and I heard it hit the pan! I was sick to my stomach! My friend and I ran magnets down the hole for hours and never got hold of it. Then we debated how much it would move around and maybe leave it in there? After a while I said that's enough! Pulled the motor back out pulled the pan and got the socket! I debated pulling the pan in the car, but it was so tight I knew I would never get it to seal. That car ran like a scalded dog! I sold it in 1984, an all original Cobra Jet Torino for $1500. I sure wish I had that car today!
The part that you replaced is called a harmonic balancer.
It protects the crankshaft from excessive vibrations.
They fail on some cars as well. Old 80's and 90's Volvo's are known for this as well.
But on those cars you notice it first when the charging system doesn't seem to work. Good repair job.
Great repair. You displayed great patience in remedying the situation. I would had been using every swear word at my disposal to stay in focus.
Catching up on all your old videos…Great
I have had this same thing happen on hotrods. The harmonic balancer coming apart. Common problem but not many people know about it.
Had similar issue with my Yanmar B15-3 : replaced thermostat, rad cap, fan belt, cleaned rad, drained / flushed system several times replaced with super coolant and still had o/heating problem! Then it dawned on me…… someone had previously repaired the exhaust pipe leading down from the manifold with some heavy duty insulating wrap. The pipe was broken anyway so replaced it with a new stainless pipe and hey presto no more overheating! 👍
Thanks for sharing your overheat problem. Always interesting looking at what others have to say while looking over your shoulder, pay no mind to most of the negative remarks. If they got put on the spot you would see what I am talking about. You got errrr done and saved $$$$$$$
I’m surprised that you didn’t have charging issues
Great job fixing your Excavator and diagnosing the cooling problem. 👍
Very labor intense work, but, I could sense your satisfaction with the result, well done!
Great video and a great diagnosis! Long drive to Clifton Park to get that part! I’m about 20 minutes east of there in Rensselaer County. Keep them coming!
Thanks, its not too bad. Maybe 30 mins. Well worth it though
That thingummy is the inertial damper, it prevents the crew from being turned into jell-o when the ship goes to warp speed.
If you had to pay someone for the job you be gone 1000 dollars easy. Thanks for sharing.
or the stealership would cost 4 times more with 2 visits!!!
Nice touch using the ripper shank as a finger to ur thum 👌
I'm amazed by bridges myself. Especially the ones in the NE. I was thinking the same thing right b4 you did lol however, I was hoping you were going to change that crank seal. Blowing out the radiator fins wouldn't hurt. Great vid!
Mystery solved great video, I can’t believe the alternator light wasn’t flickering, or that the battery was even charging as sloppy as a pulley was
Very cool repair and you saved a ton of money. The water pump on my B3000 truck is harder to replace than the water pump on this excavator but I only paid $20 for the B3000 water pump (with shipping).
Yep when you said rubber inside there it took me back to a motorcycle I had a no charge problem on. Alternator had a splined shaft on it that fit into a splined socket on motor. Not real complicated. But it wasn't obvious till studying microfiche and ordering a bushing that resembled a sealed bearing. Instead of the bearings it's rubber sealing the splined inner race part to the outer race essentially giving a cushion as motor spins and transfers rotation to alternator. Problem was the rubber separated from the metal and would spin alt slightly but not enough to charge any load. Motorcycle parts guys and techs had no idea of any of it. Motorcycle alt rebuilder had no idea of any of it, numerous web forums had never seen or heard of it. $13 bushing thing fixed it after months of research.
Recently working on a Duramax drivers side motor mount. Frequent issue also. Mount is 2 pieces of steel separated by 1 1/2" of rubber. Motor revs torques driver side lifting or separating the 2 pieces and tearing rubber off steal. Who designs this stuff? Oh that's right it makes it out of warranty so who cares right. So I drilled a 1/2" hole all the way through center and gr 8 bolted to not allow the lifting or separation yet still dampen.
Moral of the story rubber used for cushion separates from steal. Replace those parts lol
I hope you ended up replacing the fan, the blades are designed all exactly the same even in weight. The an even wearing on the blades will cause an out of balance rotation creating vibration which could cause additional problems to your really cool fix. When the clutch fan first came out that problem caused folks tons of money trying to figure out why they had a problem with over heating. I was in my early 20's getting my radiator fixed and the old guy working on my vehicle told me that my radiator was fine it was the new F-in clutch fan that I installed he GAVE me a new fan (good old days in America) told me to go home and make it right I never had the problem again. You have good troubleshooting skills brother
Good thing you put your hand on it and noticed the bonded rubber had turned loose, from what the fan blades looked like and the way the engine was moving around at the end when throttled up I would say the fan contact with the shroud caused the belt to basically tear the rubber loose from the balancer. Good catch anyway and the problem is solved, I know this vid is old but I would look into what the mounts look like. Sometimes rubber saturated in oil lets things move way too much and cause an issue like that, anyhow been binge watching your vids and have enjoyed the content. Never knew vids of moving dirt, trees and spreading gravel would replace watching tv lol
Get yourself some roloc bristle disc. They work great for cleaning surfaces. The green one's work great.
Its very interesting because i know you will find a reason for the problem without to much trouble
That was a great fix will save some people a lot of pain thanks for sharing 👍🇦🇺🚜
Very interesting video Jesse , you are excellent at explaining what you are doing .
1FF ............... Deere-Hitachi (Kernersville, NC, USA)
The first three characters of the PIN identify where it was produced.
Thanks for your great content Jesse! I work at a Deere dealer in Brazil.
That is a harmonic balancer. The rubber is there to dampen vibrations/harmonics. It probably degraded because of the oil leak.
It absorbs torsional vibration as each cylinder fires which can eventually break crankshaft if bad.
@@jerrybradshaw9879 Correct. I have also witnessed rotary oil pumps get destroyed from this as well.
I have a John deer 50c and I had the same over heating problem... after replacing the thermostat, water pump AND radiator, I found that the same pulley was my issue!
Remember to remove the pulley with number one piston at top dead centre to save the keyway dropping out
I always inspected the harmonic balancer on every engine or cooling system I ever touched it is a very common problem 45 years experience
Check radiator, on my Kamatsu 75 I had the same problem, the radiator core was plugged. Put a new core in and runs fine now. Good luck from BC , Canada.
Andrew fell off the TH-cam map...haven't seen a camarata video in over a week... Lol. Jessie, thanks for the "fix". It filled in for Andrew!
I should have one out tonight/tomorrow.
@@AndrewCamarata , thanks! You and Jessie are my favorites!
Good video!
I used to live in Clifton Park.
I recognized the bridges on your way home
Great work! Thanks for explaining each step!
You could make a tilt bucket. I am thinking about making one, and a water trenching bucket.
I have definitely been thinking about fabbing a tilt bucket, would probably have to unhook the thumb to use it, but it may be worth it. Maybe we will both have to make one? One for your Kubota? Maybe with a 3 ft bucket with no teeth
@@jmuller86 Yeah, that would work. Just put quick connects on the thumb. I have been unplugging mine to use the hammer, its easy. When making stuff like that its easier to make a few at a time.
@@AndrewCamarata yea we could basically make ours the same dimensions, just different ears. I do have quick connects already for my thumb. I want to make a way for my transit receiver to be hooked into the system too, for like a cheaper alternative to a trimble
@@jmuller86 Ok, whenever you want to do it. We need cylinders, hoses, and round stock to make tilt buckets. I still want to do trailer lights. I keep getting calls for jobs.
@@AndrewCamarata sounds good, I will start taking measurements and we can figure out cylinder sizes to order, nobody has a tilt bucket fab video on here yet. Another option for the tilt is to use a linear actuator. They make ones strong enough to do it, like 2000 lb force. then you could add that to your yanmars. They are less weight than cylinders too th-cam.com/video/snq4GFXrqV8/w-d-xo.html
Great to know!,
I think that pulley is similar to a Harmonic pulley for anti vibration from the crank. For WIW, while you were there, you should have replaced the front seal on the crank, since it's seeping. Just pry it out and press a new one in
Enjoyed the information and you did a great job explaining and hands on teaching!!!
"The Right Stuff" IS the right stuff
Great fix , nice drone footage aswell .
I knew that was Nortrax when I could see the Northway. Small world. The twins are a pretty cool bridge, I agree. Typical membrane failure of a harmonic balancer. Happens in a bunch of vehicles, also to dual mass flywheels.
Good job on the repair. Nothing worse than babying a machine and wondering when it is going to break down.
Excellent video :o) If you ever get stuck with a huge quote on a water pump then have a sniff around the aftermarket electric ones. Might need a fan too, but the lack of pump pulley is simply fixed with a shorter belt.
Nice find. Glad to see you got the problem solved.
Very good video!
Thanks for taking the time to make it.
Interesting throughout.
Thanks again.
Rod
You did a great job fixing that overheating excavator. Amazed at your skill level. However, when I saw you spin the cooling fan I knew that wasn't right. Shouldn't move! The rubber turned loose inside the harmonic balancer. May have just been age but I noticed it looked oily around the front of the engine. Perhaps it should have got a new front crankshaft seal.
I did replace the crank seal
Nice find, a bad centrifugal clutch is sometimes hard to diagnose.
good job, we had the same issue with our 12 ton cat, but it was the head gasket. our 27 ton Hitachi needs to get a new oil cooler radiator core put in so it has been sent off farm to be done, our zero swing cat ( about the same size as your machine ) kicks butt lol, if push comes to shove, breakfast cereal box can be used as a gasket, you can buy gasket paper by the roll, we did buy the right head gasket for the 12 ton cat, but making a copper head gasket would have also fixed it, good luck with your work and be safe / best regards Waza
300 series Hitachi is probably estimated at 30 tons. So it would be a sixty thousand plus pound machine. Andrew Camarata has a crankshaft pulley just like it on his Mitsubishi Montero sport. Newer crankshaft pulleys have went that direction to harmonically balance the crank. Good Job Jesse.
Great video. I have a small komatsu excavator that overheats. After watching your video it gave me an idea, I'm going to take a paint stick and paint a line on the harmonic balancer, that will tell me if it is slipping.
Did you ever figure out your problem? I'm having a similar problem with my Komatsu Pc30fr-2
@@yetibremsstrahlung9018 Yes, my problem was the radiator was clogged with dust. I took an air gun and blew it out.
The Damper pulley's can cause unknown vibrations and need to be replaces on larger diesel engines especially when rebuilding an engine, yours is completely gone which shouldn't happen, my tip is always buy a genuine seal for the crankshaft as the cheap ones fall to pieces then all the oil will be pumped out in a minute, those Hitachi machines are a quality machine and have a reputation of good quality where where i live.
Nice work, great job!
Good commentary, very instructive!
Drain and purge (back flush) radiator and be sure your bleeding air out of the cooling system when you refill.
One other 'simple-weird O' problem I have had, the lower hose is often the suction side. In old days manufacturers put a spring inside the hose (to still bendable/flexible YET prevent the hose from collapsing when hot and in suction). Some new style has a hard outer shell to prevent 'pinch/bend collapsing'. Just an PSA on overheating...
-One of the cause of failure of a harmonic balancer....is over heating in a major way, will soften the rubber material and fail with a load upon it. So use a puller and don't heat torch to attempt removal.
Jesse, here's how one of my old instructors taught us to make gaskets.
Take the item like that water pump and ink with a ink roller cover the area the gasket covers. Then set it on a sheet of thick paper to make a stencil.
Cut our the passages and bolt holes not gasket cover.
They make hole punch sets.
I used to have one.
Cut tge other areas out with an Xacto knife.
Then set that over a sheet of gasket material you can find online or at NAPA if they still sell it.
Trace the outline and trim and punch the areas ya need to.
Now you've got that gasket.
Still put a thin film of that gasket sealer you used on both sides of the gasket before you install it.
I've made hundreds of gaskets over the years.
Was cheaper than buying a gasket set when you only need one or two and often cheaper than a large one.
Only head or other high pressure gaskets should never be made like that.
Those usually have metal in them.
Good job! Enjoyed your video. Looking forward to the next one.
I once had a truck where the owner was adding that silver powdered metal stop leak to the radiator, but he kept adding more and more until it became a clogging issue itself.
you should never, never add any of that crap to a radiator. Even the cork or rubber stuff is bad. It plugs up the water jacket where it thins out. Crappy stuff.
Mystery pulley on the front of the crankshaft. = Harmonic Balancer
I used to work as a agricultural mechanic and i never left a cran seal if i had to remove the front crank pully.The reason is after many hours of use the seal wears and the lips start to stiffen. Also i did not see you grease your seal lip before inserting the pully.By leaving the lips dry, when you start up the engine the seal will overheat because it has no more oil or lubricant on its lips .
One more thing here if i may, when replacing a gasket with liquide gasket maker make sure you have clearance between the impeller and the face. In some instances the gasket acts as a shim.A fast test is placing the part back on without anything and turning the impeller by hand and se if there is any interference
Have a great day
the pulley seal surface had lube on it from the factory, I should've replaced the seal , I was just focused on the overheating and wasn't thinking about the seal until after I started editing my videos, then the first thing that came to mind was " I bet people are going to point that out" and sure enough lol , but I agree about the gasket acting as a shim, however; the waterpump was previously removed because there was only a black silicone on it when I removed it, so I figured it was ok to put it back like that. All good points though, thanks
One more point after thinking about it. I thought i saw engin oil smeared on the front cover of the motor. Engin oil has additives in it and i know that certain rubbers are affected by this oil. Could the damage to the rubber in the damper be caused by the engin oil that could of leaked by the crank seal.
Man I hope that you replaced the seal for that balancer and the oil leak up around the thermostat somewhere while you were in there.
I second that.
The leaking seal is what made the rubber in the harmonic balancer fail!
@Glen Spivey Sorry man, just an old mechanic, in the blood you know.
I replaced it today, had to take the spool valve manifold out and all the cooling system had to come out so I figured I might as well
@@time1800 exactly!
Seen bad clutches on the fan caused overheating on my Chevy truck, pulled my hair out trying to figure that out as well. Finally figured it out why revving the motor I noticed the fan did not rev as the engine did.
nice repair.
Jesse, if you ever get stuck for a gasket you can buy sheets of generic gasket material in various thicknesses and cut them to shape with a craft knife using the old gasket or the part as a template.
That Makita looks to be very handy! Good and informative video. Thanks!
Great videos. Definitely subscribed, and looking forward to seeing you wrenching on that Hitachi-300 in the future
Cars do this, worked a Buick that this happened to, but its was obvious, the whole thing fell off from the rubber, One vehicle that got me and the previous owner was a 06 Kia Sedona with the 3.8 v6, I got it for cheap, it slide into a ditch and bent up all the body parts in the front and passenger side, but it had a knock to it, not at idle, but on a load it knocked pretty loud, Well I had a newer Sedona for doner parts, engine, body panels, with the intention to resell once its rebuilt. After some time and taking parts off to get ready for the engine swap, I noticed the balancer had been rubbing the timing cover, Here the balancer is the reason it had the knock, it sounded so much like a lower end rod bearing..... Replaced it and no more knock!
The pulley with rubber between the two parts is called a HARMONIC BALANCER hence the strange shaped back / front.. hope this helps.
DID you replace that *OIL SEAL* while you in there?
I did a few weeks later in an upcoming video
All that work you should have put a new crank seal in, good work though.
Good job and diagnoses, possibly what ever got into the fan jammed it enough to brake the rubber in the crank pulley . Just a thought because of how the fan blades were chewed up. If you would have welded it , it could shear that key next time , then it would be in the gears etc and really do some damage!
I can see a "water line" on the inside of teh water pump outlet. Maybe the system just had air in the system in addition to the clutch problem?
Thanks this will be a big help if I ever have to do it. I was looking at my oil cooler and was wondering how much of a pain that would be to get off. Not that hard now. How many hours on your machine?
Yea its not hard as long as you drain the fluid first. Theres around 4k hours on it
Nice job finding the problem.
Could you have disassembled the old part, and machined a new one from scratch?
The fan extension is not seated properly on the water pump / pulley, its wobbling around. You will loose your pump bearing if not fixed. Cheers Jesse