(english) Better Surface Quality / 0.9 Stepper Upgrade vs. Gearbox
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
- "Vertical Fine Artifacts" 15 Dollar Upgrade for better print quality with a high resolution 0.9 degree stepper motor or a DIY belt gearbox.
Check my English Channel:
/ @justprinted_3den988
Video auch auf Deutsch: • 10,- Motor Tausch = g...
00:00 Intro
01:04 What are "Vertical Fine Artifacts" ?
03:21 Positioning Accuracy
06:54 Bad Resonances
09:39 Experiment Drive a Stepper by 9V Battery
10:34 #1 HighResolution Stepper Insight 0.9 Degree (15 Dollar)
12:05 #2 DIY Gearbox (25 Dollar)
14:40 #3 "Trianglelab" Gearbox Stepper Test (40 Dollar)
23:03 Final Print Results
25:50 Conclusion
Download the gearbox stepper mounting on Thingiverse:
www.thingiverse.com/thing:518...
All shown material was bought by myself, nothing is sponsored in any way.
Alternatives:
#1
- special 400 step Nema 17 Stepper, housing length 48mm, will fit for Sidewinder X1, X2, Genius on the X (nozzle) and Y (bed) axis.
costs about 15 Dollar
#2
- Trianglelab" Nema 17 geared motor
#3
For the DIY Gearbox:
- 40mm housing length Nema 17 Stepper equals the original stepper on X
- 5 mm hardened shaft 90mm lenght
- 2 adjustment rings for 5mm shaft to secure both ball bearings within the stepper housing
- pulleys GT2 20 teeth and 60 teeth
- best 172 teeth 2GT fits perfect as you use my very same setup
www.buymeacoffee.com/just_pri... Musik: Whenever
Musiker: LiQWYD Musik: Whenever , Musiker: LiQWYD - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[UNCUT] รัฐสั่งหยุดปล่อยคลื่น! แต่หยุดพลังปะทุ “น้องหญิง” ไม่ได้ I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RmQh47eIiV0/mqdefault.jpg)
More English videos please!!! Your work/insight is so great. Please, share with us lowly English speakers!
I guess you have visited my english channel already
@@JustPrinted3D ohh, no! Just saw the hand full of English vida on this channel. I will look for it. Thanks!
Excellent video. I spent MANY hours researching Fine Vertical Artifacts myself. Tried different pulleys (sometimes it helps)… But sure: the biggest culprit it the motor itself. Each motor has a different movement response compared to the electrical input. It varies with speed AND load! It is not linear and that’s what we see on the walls.
My Ender 3 got very prominent FVA on the Y axis, almost perfectly smooth on the X. I tried different motors and I found a 0.9 stepper that produces much smoother walls. But it is much louder than 1.8 stock stepper. There is always trade offs 🤣
Thanks for sharing!
I agree. Thanx
Three years ago, I tested the X and Y axes with a stepping motor with a 1:4 gearbox.
The result was that the VFA wave was invisible.
However, when magnified and measured with a microscope, it was found that the resulting wave became as small as the gear ratio.
Thank you so much. Really helped understanding the cause of those vertical artifacts. I'm ready to buy the 0.9 (closed loop) steppers for X and Y axis.
Very interesting, thanks for the video.
I suspected that was the motor that was the problem with this phenomenon.
But before I pressed the buy button, I did a youtube search & found your video that confirmed my suspicion. :)
Very good in depth video 👏 and to me, your monotonic voice made it even better to understand.
Thank you so much for this new discoveries shared ❤. Subscribed
Thanks, have same problem on my Ender 3 pro, so after this video i but new motors.
Then the Voron that have reduction and motors 1.8 are working fine without VFA ?
very helpful thanks
Great research!
Can this design withstand high speed printing + high acceleration? For example 100-200mms ?
I guess NO.
The large bed 300x300 of the sidewinder is too heavy anyway.
Buy a diffrent printer for such desired high speeds.
@@JustPrinted3D Yes. I also mean in other printers :D
Thanks for replying.
The belt gear can manage higher speeds, the stepper runs faster, lauder, but should do it. Due to the gear ratio the motor unit is 3 times stronger when it comes to changing fast directions.
Using the 0.9 stepper reduces the holding power of that motor.
That will probably not work too fast, will loose steps on abrupt direction change.
Try your luck.
if i upgrade to this stepper motor do i need to adjust anyting in the Firmware.
Also great video plz include as in the DE video the name "Modell 17HM5417" of the stepper motor so ppl can find it on Amazon or other shops easy.
Need to install the Digant Marlin and TFT firmware.
Rather than that no need to adjust the firmware or compile by yourself.
But need to change the steps per mm very easy within the printer Menue if you have installed the Digant TFT firmware.
The 0,9 Stepper has double resolution, so needs to double the steps per mm.
@@JustPrinted3D how did you donnect the wires from the Modell 17HM5417 to the printer connection in witch order ?
Left to right
Black/Green/Blue/Red
Just swich to wires if it doesnt work.
It eather works, runs the wrong direction or doesnt run at all.
I find this stuff incredibly interesting but completely useless for my own needs. Personally I don't care at all about VFA or ghosting as everything I print is utilitarian/tools so surface finish really doesn't affect me. But it is very interesting how small changes can make large effects. Excellent video.
Can I deduce that the most easy solution for VFA is select the speed ?
Where can I get this high resolution motor? Great video!
depends on in which country you are buying. Just search for 0.9 stepper
Did you also use an 0.9° motor as the extruder also, or just X/Y/Z?
I left the exteuder stepper original, since the gear ratio is alreasy so high that it makes no sense to me using a 0.9 here
@@JustPrinted3D More steps per rotation (vs 1.8) implies finer steps, indicating it could move lower volumes of filament per step, peraps making layers as thin as 0.025 or thinner. That may become thin enough to hide the layer lines from the eyes.
The limit is not the extruder stepper.
The limit is the physics.
Nozzle clogging, heat transfer from nozzle into the old layers eg.
New melting problems arise by trying too thin layers.
Test it.
@@JustPrinted3D Simply need to increase the speeds of X & Y (but that would lead to underextrusion at many points, most likely). I print in ABS primarily so melting previous layers isn't as great a concern for me.
Ok, so try it and let me know how it prints
Great video, very clear and informative Thank you! (BTW, voice, pace, music, all perfect :-)).
Have you seen any issue with the MCU not keeping up with 0.9 Deg steppers (when printing at normal speeds appropriate for cartesian printers)?
-> According to Voron FAQ about the increased number of steps required by 0.9deg steppers: (...) This combined with microstepping results in more cpu load on your boards and would then start to limit how fast you can drive these.(...) Just running 1/16 microstepping with 0.9deg XY motors and pressure advance with a 1.8deg stepper on the extruder is enough to easily overwhelm the board."
Thank you 👍
no issues so far with the mcu. Ahoi
@@JustPrinted3D Great, Thank you 👍
i experimented with this on my voron and found that with 1.8º motors I can get rid of vfa by upping my microstepping to 128
also it doesnt lose torque at high microsteps because the drivers are internally often running at 256 microsteps (on 2209s) I still can get 30k accel at 500mm/s without issues, it just changes resonance which sometimes can cause skipped steps sometimes
3/1 gear it's better for resolution, but speed is decreases 3 times
You change the printer settings from 80 to 240 steps per mm.
In Cura you define the speed as usual
Exactly that defined slicer speed will be printed at.
The stepper will have to turn three times faster, ofcourse. That ist absolutely within the safe speed range of the steppers. So no speed problem at all.
The first few users received their 0.9 degree steppers and are very pleased with the better surfaces.
ive run the triangle labs 3:1 box with an ldo pancake 1.8 stepper for over a year on my prusas. in addition to adding the gearing, it also reduces the toolhead weight fairly significantly compared to the stock motors by probably around 20g even with the pulleybox added. i opened up the pulley box to re orient it to fit around my shroud. i think in the 12v era, switching to .9s was a lot more sensible. but with decently wound motors and everything in 24v i think its less of an issue than it used to be, we arent as torque starved anymore. i get exceptionally good prints on my prusa with this current custom toolhead using a pancake stepper from ldo, a triangle 3:1 pulleybox, and a delta-p shroud. have the whole toolhead reprinted into abs further reducing weight by another 15% as abs is significantly lighter than petg by volume, and this allows for better resonance performance/higher accel also. einsy isnt a great board to run klipper so i dont run my prusas on klipper anymore, like i do on my vorons, but if i ever felt like board swapping it, id go back to klipper.
did you bought the triangle labs gearbox along with the trianglelabs stepper and later you changed to a ldo stepper? i want to buy this kit, but just the gearbox
@@borisgraell when I bought it, it came with the motor. This was like probably 2 years ago
Probably the other motor is in a microstep (between to full steps). The other motor might be vibrating due to mains voltage noize(missing capacitors close to the stepper driver) or because the stepper driver can't hold the motor still (not enough current).
sorry but main voltage noise has nothing to do with stepper motor DC
Use klipper, with mainsail or fluid and do input shaping 70% of artefacts will disappear 👍.
Hallo schade das der deutsche link nicht geht ,sah schon interesannt an.
LG.
Das deutsche Video war zwei Minuten nach dem EN online, muss funktionieren.
Grüsse
Tq for english
As u can see. 60 on no reduction is same as 20 with reduction smoothness except some ringging due to ineartia because they move faster. Some shape small one cant print fast. Plus those ringing due to inertia.
On some printer above 200mm/s the artifact is loss. Can be said. It cogging of stepping on slow move. Another cheap for diy printer is running them leadscrew. It give 400step. But he top speed cant exceed 100mm/s
Btw 0.9 res stepper is a downgrade. Less speed less acc, so with gear combination and hi flow when U printing fast is waist of print. 1.8 res motor and 32 micro stepping is the choice
congratulation for nonsense of day.
Wait, so you're not here to tell me Dark Souls lore? 🤣 same voice
you cannot open the stepper motor as it will permanently lose torque.
Why do you think so?
Sure you can open and close the stepper.
The magnetism is not lost because any opening.
@@JustPrinted3D this is simply not true. hybrid stepper motors are not just plain simple brushless motors which you can open and close as many times as u wish
@@JustPrinted3D Disassembling the rotor from the stator will make the magnet loose some magnetism. This is due to how the magnetic field is guided through the stator material. Same with Permanent magnet rotors from industrial Servo motors, when disassembling you need to transfer the permanent magnet into a sleeve to not damadge it.
@@qutlicopatlixhotutti6552and I suppose you have a source for this? Or should we just trust some random asshole on the internet?