Bruce, you are exactly right that’s the way I’ve been doing it for years, I have no idea what their talking about with these pressure spikes I have never seen them, good information I appreciate it… love your dog
Bruce, very good advice, always believe what the target is telling you, I use a chronograph to give me an average muzzle velocity so I can calculate my come ups, always believe what the target is telling you, I try not to put too much stock in the ES and sd’s unless they are really a way off, mostly believe what’s happening on target
I shoot into the rifling most of the time and I’ve never seen anything that supports the “pressure spike” idea. Also, I agree that focusing on velocity is not relevant to load development.
I agree 100%. I even load some bullets for my AR into the lands. People make too much of ES, the target will tell you. BUT 😁 when testing different powders for a new cartridge I do chrono at 100. The closest range longer than 100 is an hour drive one way. THANKS for your videos!
A friend and myself recently pressure tested from .003” off of jam to .250” off of jam and .250 had a slight increase of 1200psi. Imo 1200psi could just be components.
I agree with all of this, especially the ES and SD stuff....my most accurate loads don't always have the best ES's or SD's. I shoot ELR and yes, you will notice some vertical issues but the cone of accuracy is still something you can't overcome so don't fight the numbers, go with the load that the target proves is most accurate regardless of numbers on machines, shoot what works!!! Targets don't lie. So many facets to this game, you will go insane trying to make it all work at the same time....that's the fun i guess, understanding enough to be (dangerous) accurate, precise, or simply dialed for that moment in time when you got it all right!!
Thanks for the video. Where I've personally seen bullets stick is in small 6mm carts like the 6PPC or slow twist 6BR with a light ~64-68gn flat base bullet that has very little bearing surface in the case(under 0.150") due to a longer throat. It's highly dependent on bullet shape as well(hybrid and VLD style ogives are less likely to stick in my experience). Also depends on how you measure touch. Everyone is going to have a different feel when it comes to touch. So someone's 0.008" in might be another's 0.015" in. The way I measure I've had bullets in the configuration described above stick and dump powder at 0.010" into the lands(with approx 0.0015" neck tension). People are concerned/curious about ES and SD because at long range they are typically an important component in eliminating vertical dispersion in your groups. Frankly, like you, I don't believe you need them to tune a rifle(especially at short range) but it's good data to have. It can also help you decide on a load if the accuracy is similar on two powder charges. May as well choose the charge with the lowest ES/SD.
I have a lot of experience shooting a 6PPC, and all of it with bullets loaded into the rifling. Probably the main difference between my work and what he talks about is that the powder that I shot mostly likes .003 or more neck tension, with necks around .008 thick. These days, with any of my match type barrels, of whatever caliber I use the Wheeler method to find touch, and then at the neck tension that I plan on loading, I find jam. I use the old school definition of jam, which is the length that a bullet is pushed back to when loaded long and then chambered and unchambered. The whole pressure issue is dealt with by working up with the bullet in the rifling, rather than working up jumped and then changing to into the rifling. The reason for wanting to know what both touch and jam are is that it tells me what I have to work with. Generally, with the neck tension that I used, and lighter, I have never stuck a bullet that was .003 shorter than jam or shorter. Generally, my preferred seating depth is somewhere between .006 and .010 longer than touch, which is quite a bit short of jam. IMO the secret is to have the right measuring tools and know how to properly use them, that and keeping good records. When I read that some fellow is seating jammed with no specified distance beyond touch, I wonder if he actually knows where he is.
@@boydallen8059 Makes sense. I've actually started increasing my neck tension lately when there isn't much bearing surface in the case. Seems to result in more consistent ignition and eliminate flier under those conditions. At least when I'm jumping the bullet. I've got my first 30BR barrel on the way. I know I'm late to the party but I never felt a need to improve on my 6PPC until our local top shooter started beating me in score matches solely because their bullets made bigger holes. From all accounts they function best with a hard jam and lots of neck tension. I'm looking forward to tuning it. Take it easy.
Bruce, you are exactly right that’s the way I’ve been doing it for years, I have no idea what their talking about with these pressure spikes I have never seen them, good information I appreciate it… love your dog
Bruce, very good advice, always believe what the target is telling you, I use a chronograph to give me an average muzzle velocity so I can calculate my come ups, always believe what the target is telling you, I try not to put too much stock in the ES and sd’s unless they are really a way off, mostly believe what’s happening on target
I shoot into the rifling most of the time and I’ve never seen anything that supports the “pressure spike” idea. Also, I agree that focusing on velocity is not relevant to load development.
I agree 100%. I even load some bullets for my AR into the lands. People make too much of ES, the target will tell you. BUT 😁 when testing different powders for a new cartridge I do chrono at 100. The closest range longer than 100 is an hour drive one way. THANKS for your videos!
Great job thanks!
I like your opinion, ill try that once I get up and running on my 6ppc
Love the tune
A friend and myself recently pressure tested from .003” off of jam to .250” off of jam and .250 had a slight increase of 1200psi. Imo 1200psi could just be components.
how does your friend measure the pressure?
Thanks for the info
I agree with all of this, especially the ES and SD stuff....my most accurate loads don't always have the best ES's or SD's. I shoot ELR and yes, you will notice some vertical issues but the cone of accuracy is still something you can't overcome so don't fight the numbers, go with the load that the target proves is most accurate regardless of numbers on machines, shoot what works!!! Targets don't lie. So many facets to this game, you will go insane trying to make it all work at the same time....that's the fun i guess, understanding enough to be (dangerous) accurate, precise, or simply dialed for that moment in time when you got it all right!!
Thanks - fascinating info.
What are you running on tension
My .284 shoot’s the best with.001 neck tension. I wanted more but the rifle didn’t
I usually run with 30 thousands jam and 0.0005" neck tension.
Thanks for the video. Where I've personally seen bullets stick is in small 6mm carts like the 6PPC or slow twist 6BR with a light ~64-68gn flat base bullet that has very little bearing surface in the case(under 0.150") due to a longer throat. It's highly dependent on bullet shape as well(hybrid and VLD style ogives are less likely to stick in my experience). Also depends on how you measure touch. Everyone is going to have a different feel when it comes to touch. So someone's 0.008" in might be another's 0.015" in. The way I measure I've had bullets in the configuration described above stick and dump powder at 0.010" into the lands(with approx 0.0015" neck tension). People are concerned/curious about ES and SD because at long range they are typically an important component in eliminating vertical dispersion in your groups. Frankly, like you, I don't believe you need them to tune a rifle(especially at short range) but it's good data to have. It can also help you decide on a load if the accuracy is similar on two powder charges. May as well choose the charge with the lowest ES/SD.
I have a lot of experience shooting a 6PPC, and all of it with bullets loaded into the rifling. Probably the main difference between my work and what he talks about is that the powder that I shot mostly likes .003 or more neck tension, with necks around .008 thick. These days, with any of my match type barrels, of whatever caliber I use the Wheeler method to find touch, and then at the neck tension that I plan on loading, I find jam. I use the old school definition of jam, which is the length that a bullet is pushed back to when loaded long and then chambered and unchambered. The whole pressure issue is dealt with by working up with the bullet in the rifling, rather than working up jumped and then changing to into the rifling. The reason for wanting to know what both touch and jam are is that it tells me what I have to work with. Generally, with the neck tension that I used, and lighter, I have never stuck a bullet that was .003 shorter than jam or shorter. Generally, my preferred seating depth is somewhere between .006 and .010 longer than touch, which is quite a bit short of jam. IMO the secret is to have the right measuring tools and know how to properly use them, that and keeping good records. When I read that some fellow is seating jammed with no specified distance beyond touch, I wonder if he actually knows where he is.
@@boydallen8059 Makes sense. I've actually started increasing my neck tension lately when there isn't much bearing surface in the case. Seems to result in more consistent ignition and eliminate flier under those conditions. At least when I'm jumping the bullet. I've got my first 30BR barrel on the way. I know I'm late to the party but I never felt a need to improve on my 6PPC until our local top shooter started beating me in score matches solely because their bullets made bigger holes. From all accounts they function best with a hard jam and lots of neck tension. I'm looking forward to tuning it. Take it easy.
What's the dog's name?
👍
I run about everything .020 off with .0005 to .001 of nk tension, but I don't shoot comp anymore just plinkin
😅