I really like how dynamic sidesword is. There's the staying on line, but then there are instances of going off line as well that just make it a joy to watch for entertainment.
I'm always intrigued whenever I see Bolognese sidesword; the footwork and false edge cuts always seem to be the closest counterpart I can find to what I'm used to from Chinese jian.
That isn't too far off. More walking based footwork (passes and circular movement), plus a lot of back edge work in both attack and defence. It's more of a flowing style.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing i know it's accepted that viking era swords turned into arming swords, and arming swords turned into sideswords who turned into rapiers. But is it also correct that sideswords turned into the backswords/pallaschs? Looking at the cavalry swords of the mid 17th century. They seem either to look like beefier rapiers, which I honestly can't tell apart from a sidesword with complex hilts. Or they are like the walloon style thing, which is basically a sideswords blade on a bakethilt. So it looks to me that the general blade of the sidesword that didn't get longer and thinner into a rapier, stayed mostly the same with just different hilts on it. And in later period lost it's sharp back edge.
@@Gunfreak19The development of swords is very complex at times with a lot of overlapping aspects. Even the idea of rapier and sidesword is quite a modern concept. In Britain when those were in use for example, both were called rapier, and in Italy, both were generally just called a sword (spada). I wouldn't say sideswords turned into backswords/pallasch though. Straight medium length swords with basket or partial basket hilts evolved in parallel with sideswords. There are also single edged side swords.
I hear you. Elegant, fast, and deadly. The scene from the remake of The Count of Monte Cristo when Count Mondego(Guy Pearce) has his morning duel comes to mind. Casually walks off after piercing his opponent through the heart.
Remember though, what you're seeing here are today known as "Sideswords" not rapiers, they are only called "Rapier" in Meyer's manual because the terminology was different back then. But what we know today typically as a Rapier (and what most other sources call a Rapier) is much longer, and heavier than this. A lot of people mistake either smallswords or sideswords to be rapiers, thinking they are elegent, fast and light, and end up surprised when actually handling a real rapier as a result at how cumbersome it actually can be.
@@nerkdurgen5574 I am actually, I love to dance and socialise! Lol. I just value historical accuracy in this context, I'm not aiming to be overly serious or spoil anyone's fun here lol.
It would be fun to do a study of sidesword vs rapier with dueling and then sidesword v rapier in 2v1 2v2 3v2 etc to see how they compete against each other in different environments. Throw in shields of various types and daggers or even cloaks for fun.
I'm from México, my mother language is spanish, but i'm happy for knowing a little bit of english because i can tell you that you're awesome and that one day i want to go to UK to learn with you, the sword are my passion but i've never found a good school to learn to use the medieval weapons just asian weapons
looks more like light sabre work.... but nice anyway. when the guy with the red socks goes into quint or terz sometimes it looks a bit like "studentisches Fechten"/ Mensur.
Do you have any tips on what exercises would be good to improve stamina in fencing? I've had to take several months off due to school, and I popped into my fencing club once over winter break. I was so out of shape and out of practice, and got winded very quickly. Since my normal fencing club is several hours away, I won't be able to actually do any sparring until May. Any tips on solo exercises I could do for stamina, with or without a sword?
In our experience, fitness for HEMA is quite sport specific, and whilst typical fitness regimes are overall of benefit, the most important thing is to be training with a sword in hand in a way that represent a fight as much and as often as possible. If you're alone in that then solo drills are going to be your only option. That means a lot of movement and cutting/thrusting exercises. You may want to consider a pell if this is the case, so that you have points of contact during solo exercise.
It is slower. This is because of how and why sport fencing has developed. For a start, it has become entirely sport focused, winning points under set rules. This is opposed to the basic principles of defence and survival at the core of historical swordsmanship. As a result, chances are taken that would be incredibly dangerous in a real fight. The fact that fighters always stop on any point of contact also mean their position after an action is of no importance. Modern footwear and surfaces are also a factor that have resulted in explosive footwork. Whilst we are too wearing modern shoes in ideal conditions here, this was almost never the case with combat with swords historically. We regularly train outdoors and this has a huge effect on footwork. Additionally, the only cut and thrust weapon in sport fencing is sabre, and it has no cuts below the waist. This has a huge effect on distance and footwork. Sport fencing has essentially developed some incredible gymnastics level of movement that is a result of it's approach and end goal. That isn;t to say it isn't impressive and highly skilled, it very much is. But it's quite far removed from the practice of effective offence and defence with swords, especially when it comes to cut based fencing.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Such a superb reply and very informative indeed. I can see that rules, especially target area and priority/right of way would have significant impact on both footwork and blade work. Modern sabre fencers for instance tends to be extremely fast and aggressive, and amongst foilists there is a well established tactic to bend the sword arm in a way that it somewhat blocks or shields part of the target. Even epeeists are comfortable with double hits if one has a commanding leads in points scored, although under normal circumstances they are not favourable compared to getting single hits (note many of them may still end up double from a historically realistic perspective). At the same time though, wouldn't a fencer trained in historical styles from the start be at a somewhat disadvantage when competing with an opponent from modern fencing backgrounds? Of course assuming the latter isn't a "suicidal" attacker who just presses on with little will of self preservation and is somewhat familiar with the use of historical weapons as well.
@@jiaweizhang4166 As far as I'm concerned, if they were dueling to the death, then the historical fencer has a better chance of winning, this goes back to target area, as modern fencers keep their legs open (legs don't count as hit in modern fencing) while in Historical fencing, the footwork and protection of the legs is usually better. But that's just my opinion.
@@nasserfirelordarts6574 Just to clarify in epee legs are legit targets and aiming for the toe can be a valid tactic, though in actual bouts this might be a rather risky move because of exposure of upper arm to stop hits, not to mention that your opponent's toe is quite a small yet fast moving target.
@@jiaweizhang4166 Would a historical fencing be at a disadvantage competing against a sport fencer? Well it depends what to you mean by compete. There are a lot of variables here. A lot of what sport fencers do puts them in suicidal positions. Many cuts would have little to no real effect if they were sharp, so those would have an advantage from a point scoring perspective, unless you require cuts to be done in a realistic manner. But overall, if you treat the weapons like they should be used, and not just to tap for a point, I'd say no. I've fencing some great sport fencers, including the odd Olympic level one, and it all comes down to individual skill. That said, sport fencers for the most part are way more skilled than HEMA fencers at point work, and footwork. But this is simply because a lot in HEMA don't spend enough time on these two things.
It depends what sort of sabre you compare it to. Compared to a lot of long bladed fairly straight sabres it is not that far apart, but the style is very different in terms of footwork and especially the back edge and rotational movements.
I really like how dynamic sidesword is. There's the staying on line, but then there are instances of going off line as well that just make it a joy to watch for entertainment.
Thanks, it's a lot of fun.
Damn, I need to start just always wearing a dagger. Also that was a beautiful thrust at 1:14
I'm always intrigued whenever I see Bolognese sidesword; the footwork and false edge cuts always seem to be the closest counterpart I can find to what I'm used to from Chinese jian.
To my untrained eye, Sideswording looks like a mix of rapiering and sabreing.
That isn't too far off. More walking based footwork (passes and circular movement), plus a lot of back edge work in both attack and defence. It's more of a flowing style.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing i know it's accepted that viking era swords turned into arming swords, and arming swords turned into sideswords who turned into rapiers. But is it also correct that sideswords turned into the backswords/pallaschs? Looking at the cavalry swords of the mid 17th century. They seem either to look like beefier rapiers, which I honestly can't tell apart from a sidesword with complex hilts. Or they are like the walloon style thing, which is basically a sideswords blade on a bakethilt.
So it looks to me that the general blade of the sidesword that didn't get longer and thinner into a rapier, stayed mostly the same with just different hilts on it. And in later period lost it's sharp back edge.
@@Gunfreak19The development of swords is very complex at times with a lot of overlapping aspects. Even the idea of rapier and sidesword is quite a modern concept. In Britain when those were in use for example, both were called rapier, and in Italy, both were generally just called a sword (spada). I wouldn't say sideswords turned into backswords/pallasch though. Straight medium length swords with basket or partial basket hilts evolved in parallel with sideswords. There are also single edged side swords.
I've always preferred rapiers over other swords
I hear you. Elegant, fast, and deadly. The scene from the remake of The Count of Monte Cristo when Count Mondego(Guy Pearce) has his morning duel comes to mind. Casually walks off after piercing his opponent through the heart.
Sideswords are a great middle point, with a bit of everything thrown into one sword. They're a lot of fun to use.
Remember though, what you're seeing here are today known as "Sideswords" not rapiers, they are only called "Rapier" in Meyer's manual because the terminology was different back then. But what we know today typically as a Rapier (and what most other sources call a Rapier) is much longer, and heavier than this. A lot of people mistake either smallswords or sideswords to be rapiers, thinking they are elegent, fast and light, and end up surprised when actually handling a real rapier as a result at how cumbersome it actually can be.
@@Mr-Tibbster boy howdy, you must be a riot at parties
@@nerkdurgen5574 I am actually, I love to dance and socialise! Lol. I just value historical accuracy in this context, I'm not aiming to be overly serious or spoil anyone's fun here lol.
Very nice and superbly Meyeresque
It would be fun to do a study of sidesword vs rapier with dueling and then sidesword v rapier in 2v1 2v2 3v2 etc to see how they compete against each other in different environments. Throw in shields of various types and daggers or even cloaks for fun.
That's really interesting, it's very technical.
I'm from México, my mother language is spanish, but i'm happy for knowing a little bit of english because i can tell you that you're awesome and that one day i want to go to UK to learn with you, the sword are my passion but i've never found a good school to learn to use the medieval weapons just asian weapons
You're always welcome to train with us. Let us know if you're ever in the UK.
@@MichaelGThomas YEAH!!!! Of course
No sé si te servirá, pero el club Ritterschaft es de Tijuana.
@@Hetnaset chale no vivo cerca de ahi
Missed you peeps!
Great sess as always 🤙🏾
Thanks.
looks more like light sabre work.... but nice anyway. when the guy with the red socks goes into quint or terz sometimes it looks a bit like "studentisches Fechten"/ Mensur.
Do you have any tips on what exercises would be good to improve stamina in fencing? I've had to take several months off due to school, and I popped into my fencing club once over winter break. I was so out of shape and out of practice, and got winded very quickly.
Since my normal fencing club is several hours away, I won't be able to actually do any sparring until May. Any tips on solo exercises I could do for stamina, with or without a sword?
In our experience, fitness for HEMA is quite sport specific, and whilst typical fitness regimes are overall of benefit, the most important thing is to be training with a sword in hand in a way that represent a fight as much and as often as possible. If you're alone in that then solo drills are going to be your only option. That means a lot of movement and cutting/thrusting exercises. You may want to consider a pell if this is the case, so that you have points of contact during solo exercise.
You guys are awesome. I can't help but picture a couple Italian aristocrats dueling over some quibble.
Awesome Sparks at 2:56 !!!
I'm rather curious about why historical fencing footwork seems a lot slower than its modern sports counterpart
It is slower. This is because of how and why sport fencing has developed. For a start, it has become entirely sport focused, winning points under set rules. This is opposed to the basic principles of defence and survival at the core of historical swordsmanship. As a result, chances are taken that would be incredibly dangerous in a real fight. The fact that fighters always stop on any point of contact also mean their position after an action is of no importance. Modern footwear and surfaces are also a factor that have resulted in explosive footwork. Whilst we are too wearing modern shoes in ideal conditions here, this was almost never the case with combat with swords historically. We regularly train outdoors and this has a huge effect on footwork. Additionally, the only cut and thrust weapon in sport fencing is sabre, and it has no cuts below the waist. This has a huge effect on distance and footwork.
Sport fencing has essentially developed some incredible gymnastics level of movement that is a result of it's approach and end goal. That isn;t to say it isn't impressive and highly skilled, it very much is. But it's quite far removed from the practice of effective offence and defence with swords, especially when it comes to cut based fencing.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Such a superb reply and very informative indeed. I can see that rules, especially target area and priority/right of way would have significant impact on both footwork and blade work. Modern sabre fencers for instance tends to be extremely fast and aggressive, and amongst foilists there is a well established tactic to bend the sword arm in a way that it somewhat blocks or shields part of the target. Even epeeists are comfortable with double hits if one has a commanding leads in points scored, although under normal circumstances they are not favourable compared to getting single hits (note many of them may still end up double from a historically realistic perspective). At the same time though, wouldn't a fencer trained in historical styles from the start be at a somewhat disadvantage when competing with an opponent from modern fencing backgrounds? Of course assuming the latter isn't a "suicidal" attacker who just presses on with little will of self preservation and is somewhat familiar with the use of historical weapons as well.
@@jiaweizhang4166 As far as I'm concerned, if they were dueling to the death, then the historical fencer has a better chance of winning, this goes back to target area, as modern fencers keep their legs open (legs don't count as hit in modern fencing) while in Historical fencing, the footwork and protection of the legs is usually better. But that's just my opinion.
@@nasserfirelordarts6574 Just to clarify in epee legs are legit targets and aiming for the toe can be a valid tactic, though in actual bouts this might be a rather risky move because of exposure of upper arm to stop hits, not to mention that your opponent's toe is quite a small yet fast moving target.
@@jiaweizhang4166 Would a historical fencing be at a disadvantage competing against a sport fencer? Well it depends what to you mean by compete. There are a lot of variables here. A lot of what sport fencers do puts them in suicidal positions. Many cuts would have little to no real effect if they were sharp, so those would have an advantage from a point scoring perspective, unless you require cuts to be done in a realistic manner.
But overall, if you treat the weapons like they should be used, and not just to tap for a point, I'd say no. I've fencing some great sport fencers, including the odd Olympic level one, and it all comes down to individual skill. That said, sport fencers for the most part are way more skilled than HEMA fencers at point work, and footwork. But this is simply because a lot in HEMA don't spend enough time on these two things.
How do you find the sidesword compared to the sabre ?
Quicker on the point control, a little less cutty but often with slightly more reach.
It depends what sort of sabre you compare it to. Compared to a lot of long bladed fairly straight sabres it is not that far apart, but the style is very different in terms of footwork and especially the back edge and rotational movements.
This looks like they are messing around and not sparring.
Not at all, what makes you think that?
Cualquier principiante español os vence con los ojos cerrados dais vergüenza