Never fenced before, but I love how patient you seem. Especially at 4:16. Also, couldnt help but feel so bad for Željko during that last exchange. Very unlucky.
Beautiful fight, never trained hema, but can't wait to. To my eye your economy of movement was what won the fight, it's beautiful to watch. Beautiful leg work too.
Really want to try this sometime. I do epee sport fencing, which is really similar (whoever pokes first gets a point), it goes a bit faster but the blades are so much lighter in that (car antennas) that I'm curious how it feels to use a more historical sword.
Sport fencers tend to transition very well into historical swordsmanship so if you want, you should give it a try. Have in mind that rulesets may differ depending on locations and weapons. Also usually rapier (as is here) also allows cuts even if they are more limited as targets or points than thrusts.
@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing Epee rulesets are very similar since there's not really priority rules, the difference being there's only thrusts and only single points can be earned. I think cuts wouldnt be too big of a learning curve because I've done a bit of sabre too and that's the main objective there. I can say from experience it's much easier to land a cut, hence why sabre is "faster" than foil (losing priority if you initiate an attack is less likely) and why epee is the most "patient" (counterattacks work, so you can't rely on initiative giving you protection).
I always wished that the rapiers i used for fencing practice lessons (on a few school trips) were more solid like those ones you two used. Better precision, more consistent blocking, deflecting, parrying, and moving with sideways and vertical momentum of any kind doesn't dramatically raise a chance the blade would miss even if your hand movement and aim is steady and perfect. Instead we got the usual flexible wobbling rapiers that 95% of the time missed a clear easy stab because the blunt tip decided to wobble the blade and point it in another direction. (Most videos only show flexible rapiers anyways, which sucks tbh.)
These can be pretty solid in the bind and have very little wobble, though one can certainly flick with them if they so wish to. Still flexible enough in the thrust as to be safe for fencing.
@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing sounds great. Shame i couldn't use that kind to get to put my dexterity and cunning to the fullest test. 7:47 was pretty interesting too. Almost got a double-sided hit on the neck, front and back, but barely missed the grab to push the rapier. (On a side note, this video makes Olympic (floppy) Fencing look goofy and weird.)
@@otamatonefan8996 Thanks, it was an interesting one for sure. I am not sure I would say Olympic is weird but it's decently different. Much lighter weapons and very noticeably different rulesets for the most part.
I like the utilitarian aproach, I fence with my jugger team and I find duels with not-completely-familiar weapons, or weapons that none of the participants practice with as their main or secondary choice, to be the most fun. We all use two handed weapons but for some reason using the shortswords for single duels is more fun in a casual setting
Thank you. Yes, sometimes it can be a fun thing to try out something different than the usual stuff we do. Just important to know that I’m such cases why we do is most probably further from what it was supposed to work usuallyx
It's not very likely that HEMA will join the Olympics anytime soon and there is quite the "movement" against it happening ever. And Olympic fencing isn't a very watched sport anyways.
Hi Angel, I just found your channel, how long/which model is the rapier you are using? I fence sidesword (Kvetun sidesword 3), do you fence similarly with sidesword as well? I see you have a preference towards cutting rather than thrusting.
Thank you for your comment. In this video we both are using pike armory rapiers, though I have changed it to Sigi rapier for the last year. I do sidesword and rapier almost exclusively only at competitions, as I train mostly arming sword and Longsword outside of that. I am trying to move more into thrusting game as well, as I am a bit too reliant on cuts and specially in rapier they are not optimal a lot of the time.
At that moment I have about 10 years of HEMA practice between three other weapons and about 3 competitions and no practice with rapier. My opponent I think had about 7-8 years of practice mostly rapier and sidesword.
Interesting assumption, I wonder why you think that. For clarity - it’s me and I have had a single Kendo training session that was about 10 or so years ago.
I so your stance fit parallel, facing forward and somewhat on the balls of your feet, plus thrust and cut combinations. My bad, I guess I read too much in to all that.
First up, well done to both players. I doubt I'd last long against either of you. I will say though that I find it a bit disappointing that this is so little like rapier in the historical manuals. All cuts and running/aggressive passing attacks with very little lunging. I see more sidesword and even some broadsword methods being used. Of course it may be that this works well in a modern tournament setting. I don't want to say that it is 'worse', and certainly both players are highly skilled (some great use of timing and quick footwork), but I think this discrepancy and the direction of HEMA rapier should lead to further analysis and conversation - if nothing else.
Thank you for your comment. I have no idea how rapier is supposed to look like and a lot of people have very different opinions on that. For my part I study arming sword and Longsword and only play rapier very occasionally and at competitions.
@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing Thanks for your reply! I'd imagine you are an excellent sidesworder. One of the things I think about is to what extent the mission of HEMA is to reconstruct European martial arts as compared to create a competitive environment where martial skills are tested. I guess the assumption is that these goals will coincide, but there is always the possibility that these two goals will end up in conflict.This is not criticism of your fencing, btw! If people start winning rapier wth sidesword methods then that is something traditional rapierists will have to honestly deal with, and thats where the question of what we are trying to achieve comes to the fore. I suppose from a personal perspective I've been doing this for 33 years and am very curious as to the direction it takes (and has already taken - mostly for the better).
Not much of a sidesword fencer actually. It seems the semi-complex hilt bugs me a bit compared to the open hilts of the arming sword. At the same time it’s not really protected as the ones of rapiers. For the second part I would say it’s about personal choices and goals. People doing HEMA can have all sorts of ideas of what and why they are doing it. I want to recreate the fencing itself but am in no way focused on the historical teaching methodology. How accurate my interpretation of the sources is unknowable as far as I am concerned. The context of the time period is gone and I only truly have the current one - fence with friends in gear to try to hit them without being hit. That being said I have very little interest in competitions themselves and they were never my goal. Just another place to fence under pressure and with something “to win or lose”.
@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing Fair enough! I work and fence with basket hilts and have often wondered how much of a difference it would be to fence with a simple hilt. I must make one one day (making swords is also a hobby!)
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This was really cool to see as my 1st HEMA rapier tourney footage, thanks
Glad you liked it!
Never fenced before, but I love how patient you seem. Especially at 4:16.
Also, couldnt help but feel so bad for Željko during that last exchange. Very unlucky.
Thank you.
Yes, sometimes weird things happen in fencing. I forced the exchange with the leg cut and he stumbled on his blade
I was rooting for Željko, but I must admit you were better, would like to see you next year as well
Hahaha, thank you. I will hopefully come again next year as well.
I like how this was presented so that my old slow eyes and brain learn what actually happened. Slow-motion replays are wonderful. Thanks.
Thank you. I am glad the editing helped
Interesting to watch, cool ruleset and great editing!
Also, very competent judging!
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it
You were all so nice! 6:00 fistbump?! I have never seen anything like that in any one on one sport besides HEMA so good on you guys!
Yes, it’s still quite common for people to celebrate the success of their opponents in very clean exchanges.
Beautiful fight, never trained hema, but can't wait to. To my eye your economy of movement was what won the fight, it's beautiful to watch. Beautiful leg work too.
Thank you, it was a really enjoyable fight. Economy of movement is a major point in all fencing and plays a big role.
Really want to try this sometime. I do epee sport fencing, which is really similar (whoever pokes first gets a point), it goes a bit faster but the blades are so much lighter in that (car antennas) that I'm curious how it feels to use a more historical sword.
Sport fencers tend to transition very well into historical swordsmanship so if you want, you should give it a try.
Have in mind that rulesets may differ depending on locations and weapons. Also usually rapier (as is here) also allows cuts even if they are more limited as targets or points than thrusts.
@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing Epee rulesets are very similar since there's not really priority rules, the difference being there's only thrusts and only single points can be earned. I think cuts wouldnt be too big of a learning curve because I've done a bit of sabre too and that's the main objective there. I can say from experience it's much easier to land a cut, hence why sabre is "faster" than foil (losing priority if you initiate an attack is less likely) and why epee is the most "patient" (counterattacks work, so you can't rely on initiative giving you protection).
nice to see such clear 60fps footage
Thank you.
this is SO MUCH COOLER than Olympic fencing !
Thanks. Though each sport has its own cool factors :)
I always wished that the rapiers i used for fencing practice lessons (on a few school trips) were more solid like those ones you two used.
Better precision, more consistent blocking, deflecting, parrying, and moving with sideways and vertical momentum of any kind doesn't dramatically raise a chance the blade would miss even if your hand movement and aim is steady and perfect.
Instead we got the usual flexible wobbling rapiers that 95% of the time missed a clear easy stab because the blunt tip decided to wobble the blade and point it in another direction.
(Most videos only show flexible rapiers anyways, which sucks tbh.)
These can be pretty solid in the bind and have very little wobble, though one can certainly flick with them if they so wish to. Still flexible enough in the thrust as to be safe for fencing.
@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing sounds great. Shame i couldn't use that kind to get to put my dexterity and cunning to the fullest test.
7:47 was pretty interesting too. Almost got a double-sided hit on the neck, front and back, but barely missed the grab to push the rapier.
(On a side note, this video makes Olympic (floppy) Fencing look goofy and weird.)
@@otamatonefan8996 Thanks, it was an interesting one for sure.
I am not sure I would say Olympic is weird but it's decently different. Much lighter weapons and very noticeably different rulesets for the most part.
This is why i love rapier
Glad you liked it
some cool ruleset they have there...
Definitely not my favourite ones tbh, but everything has it's all benefits and downsides
I like the utilitarian aproach, I fence with my jugger team and I find duels with not-completely-familiar weapons, or weapons that none of the participants practice with as their main or secondary choice, to be the most fun. We all use two handed weapons but for some reason using the shortswords for single duels is more fun in a casual setting
Great performance as well!!
Thank you. Yes, sometimes it can be a fun thing to try out something different than the usual stuff we do. Just important to know that I’m such cases why we do is most probably further from what it was supposed to work usuallyx
If only HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) would be in the Olympics, I would watch it.
It's not very likely that HEMA will join the Olympics anytime soon and there is quite the "movement" against it happening ever.
And Olympic fencing isn't a very watched sport anyways.
wow, stepping on your own weapon... didn't expect that to be the thing that ended the fight.
It’s a great example of how anything can happen in a match. Even if one is very good - luck and circumstances can play a part
Hi Angel, I just found your channel, how long/which model is the rapier you are using? I fence sidesword (Kvetun sidesword 3), do you fence similarly with sidesword as well? I see you have a preference towards cutting rather than thrusting.
Thank you for your comment. In this video we both are using pike armory rapiers, though I have changed it to Sigi rapier for the last year. I do sidesword and rapier almost exclusively only at competitions, as I train mostly arming sword and Longsword outside of that. I am trying to move more into thrusting game as well, as I am a bit too reliant on cuts and specially in rapier they are not optimal a lot of the time.
What gloves do you use?
Thokk in this case
Great match! I liked the judging for that, where's that tournament?
Thank you, glad you liked it. It’s in Belgrade, Serbia.
Congrats !
Thank you
What rapiers did you use? Were they provided by the event?
We both use Pike Armory rapiers. They were personal, not provided by the event.
How many years of practice do they have?
At that moment I have about 10 years of HEMA practice between three other weapons and about 3 competitions and no practice with rapier.
My opponent I think had about 7-8 years of practice mostly rapier and sidesword.
7:59 Love this one lol
Thank you
Makes me wonder if that's ever happened to a duelist in the past. Now that would be one embarrassing way to go.
@@VeridicoIV While I don't recall reading anything like that I would assume it may have happen.
Judging by the footwork and the cuts, the red armband seems to come from Kendo background.
Interesting assumption, I wonder why you think that.
For clarity - it’s me and I have had a single Kendo training session that was about 10 or so years ago.
I so your stance fit parallel, facing forward and somewhat on the balls of your feet, plus thrust and cut combinations. My bad, I guess I read too much in to all that.
What does it mean when he points at you?
I think he points that he has hit. Haven’t asked him :)
Not much of a rapier fight but a good sidesword play.
Having in mind I train neither rapier nor sidesword - that’s good enough for me
literally me the whole time
Rapier is a cut and thrust weapon.
First up, well done to both players. I doubt I'd last long against either of you. I will say though that I find it a bit disappointing that this is so little like rapier in the historical manuals. All cuts and running/aggressive passing attacks with very little lunging. I see more sidesword and even some broadsword methods being used. Of course it may be that this works well in a modern tournament setting. I don't want to say that it is 'worse', and certainly both players are highly skilled (some great use of timing and quick footwork), but I think this discrepancy and the direction of HEMA rapier should lead to further analysis and conversation - if nothing else.
Thank you for your comment. I have no idea how rapier is supposed to look like and a lot of people have very different opinions on that. For my part I study arming sword and Longsword and only play rapier very occasionally and at competitions.
@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing Thanks for your reply! I'd imagine you are an excellent sidesworder. One of the things I think about is to what extent the mission of HEMA is to reconstruct European martial arts as compared to create a competitive environment where martial skills are tested. I guess the assumption is that these goals will coincide, but there is always the possibility that these two goals will end up in conflict.This is not criticism of your fencing, btw! If people start winning rapier wth sidesword methods then that is something traditional rapierists will have to honestly deal with, and thats where the question of what we are trying to achieve comes to the fore. I suppose from a personal perspective I've been doing this for 33 years and am very curious as to the direction it takes (and has already taken - mostly for the better).
Not much of a sidesword fencer actually. It seems the semi-complex hilt bugs me a bit compared to the open hilts of the arming sword. At the same time it’s not really protected as the ones of rapiers.
For the second part I would say it’s about personal choices and goals. People doing HEMA can have all sorts of ideas of what and why they are doing it. I want to recreate the fencing itself but am in no way focused on the historical teaching methodology. How accurate my interpretation of the sources is unknowable as far as I am concerned. The context of the time period is gone and I only truly have the current one - fence with friends in gear to try to hit them without being hit. That being said I have very little interest in competitions themselves and they were never my goal. Just another place to fence under pressure and with something “to win or lose”.
@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing Fair enough! I work and fence with basket hilts and have often wondered how much of a difference it would be to fence with a simple hilt. I must make one one day (making swords is also a hobby!)
what is this? they don't look like trained fencers. new sport?
It's called Historical English Martial Arts or HEMA
Very cutty fencing for a thrust-centric weapon
My opponent is good at displacing thrusts, so I go for more cuts.
idk how a guy getting headshot and knocked over is no exchange, but otherwise was rad :D
Thank you. No sword hit seen = no exchange.
Have in mind I’ve shown the official score even if I would score it differently from the video.
@@AngelChernaevHistoricalFencing that makes sense, and thank you for the additional knowledge cheers my friend
7:21 Robbery
Sometimes mistakes happen
These rings seem way too small. The duelists can't even move.
They are big enough. We just don’t move around them too much
Zzzzzzzz......
🛌
really boring cause so much could happen just sloppy
Oh well