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Special: TOP 10 Pistols of WWI
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2023
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Fun 1911 fact. It was the pistol T. E. Lawrence chose to take into The Great War. Historians are able to place him at specific battles, because he was the only one in the entire middle east leaving behind 45 ACP brass.
Is there a source for that?
I’m surprised people actually found brass cases in a quagmire of mud, splintered wood and dead bodies… unless..
@@SephiMasamuneah yes, the notoriously muddy middle east. With lots of lumber, from the many trees that grow there.
@@johnfisk811 There's an article from the Smithsonian Magazine that details the story, placing him at the 1917 ambush on a train in Hallat Ammar, it's titled "Bullet Helps Revive Lawrence of Arabia’s Reputation"
that's hilarious that Lawrence of Arabia literally was an anime character with a Signature Weapon™️
I love to see the Steyr Hahn appreciation. What a lovely handgun
**I grab a Dremel with malicious intent** “must. add. detachable. magazine.”
WHERE IS THE 9x23 I'VE LOOKED EVERYWHERE
@@BoozMcGroove Fiocchi used to be the only real source, but they stopped importing their obscure handgun ammo during the pandemic and they haven’t brought it back since
@@TenaciousTrilobite That's tragic
Agreed. I just picked one up myself and it is fucking awesome. Honestly, if I were a soldier in WWII, I wouldn't even mind the clip loading-it's still something you can get quick with, and it's way faster than having to single load a revolver, in a gun that's otherwise wholly modern.
British Army, up until the early 40s Officers bought their own weapons. My Great Grandfather carried a Mauser Broomhandle with a 10 round magazine, instead of a Webley, this was after a terrifying ambush on the North West frontier in 1906 where hand to hand fighting (swords, kukris, kyber knives etc) he swore never to use a pistol without at least 7 rounds. The locals would count your shots and charge after 6 shots.
This was apparently quite common. Officers would wear their Webley when behind the frontline or at HQ because it was smaller and less bulky.
Most officers in his regiment (Gurkha) had C96s in the early 19th C.
Awesome story, I always love hearing little personal anecdotes about people's family members and their military service. Do you have his name and rank, by chance?
what was his name? did my MA Thesis on General Dunsterville
@@wolfthegreat87 sorry I don't post personal information on social media. However his career:
1894 Sandhurst
Commissioned into the 5th Gurkah Rifles where he commanded Charles Bruce (later General Bruce of Everest fame)
1901 seconded to the staff of North West Frontier Governor Harold Deane.
1910 returns to UK
1914 called up in WW1 Commissioned Captain in volunteer battalion,
Served until 1916 (with his much envied Mauser) until injured and Invalided with lung injury
Treated at Craiglockhart Hospital, Edinburgh
1920 died of Spanish Flu.. shrapnel in lung didn't help.
My maternal Grandfather used a 1911 during his North West Frontier service in the 1930s. He used it throughout WW2 and fought under Slim in Burma, part of one of the mixed brigades (1 British army battalion and 1 Indian army batallion) he was in the West Yorkshire Regiment. He spent 1946 at the Staff College in Quetta where he had to swap it for a Webley as the CinC thought automatic pistols were for 'gangsters and thugs'. But when he went back to Burma for the last months he swapped it for his 1911 and his Sten (God knows what the General thought of a submachine gun!)
He became 2nd IC of the Army of the Gold Coast and helped establish the new Army of the Republic of Ghana, we've got a Ghanaian decoration somewhere.
The pistol was eventually sold in 1975 when he died as a retired Lt Col in Bournemouth. We still have his service Kukri and his field glasses, still full of jungle mud. Unfortunately he had very severe PTSD from his experiences at the front, one particular incident saw him have to restrain his men at 1911 pistol point when the Japanese decided to torture some prisoners within earshot of their position in an attempt to lure them into an ambush. The batallion he was commanding was mixed Yorks/Gurkah and the soldiers in question were young recruits. The veterans knew the score with the Japs.
Lt Col HWH would be appalled to hear that I drive a Mitsubishi, he wouldn't have anything Japanese in his home and forced my father to leave his Nikon in his car once. He then bought dad a Leica on condition that he smashed the Nikon... dad wasn't unhappy with the deal but he also understood.
Poor old HWH drank himself to death in '75.
He never ever drank in public or appeared drunk but he drank a bottle of gin and a bottle of scotch a day from 1947 until his death. Dad said that you'd never know.
Anyone who has experienced severe mervous shock, for example sudden grief, will know that you can drink a lot of hard spirit and remain sober, the alcohol being used to counter the nerves.
Well that was him after the war.
He slept with the 1911 loaded under his pillow until his death. Obviously he had no license for it, nor for the hunting rifle and elephant gun he also had!
I just remember him as I was 4 when he died.
@@HarryFlashmanVC Incredible story to hear. Thank you very much for taking the time to share
@@HarryFlashmanVC Thanks for all this information. As I said before, I love hearing personal anecdotes like this, but me not having the name honestly doesn't matter so long as you know all of this family history. Thank you for sating my curiosity.
Thing about the stripper clip in Pistols... in that era you maybe got 2-3 magazines that had to be tailored to the gun more often than not. With a stripper clips the systems of the day could provide dozens if not hundreds of these for you to keep firing that pistol if you had to... so... I don't think the Austrians were wrong here ^^'
I love the way Ian came up with a different list and comparing the different ways that you evaluate the firearms. Love both channels.
Few things make me as happy as a C&Rsenal discussion special! This video is an absolute throwback, not only to your videos (can't believe you've been doing these so long!) But also my extensive service during WW1...on battlefield 1. Someday I would really love to get my hands on an fn1903 and a Beretta 1915- my two favorite handguns from the game, and neat designs in general.
Thanks for the video, beard man and mae!
Now I want to see a firearms company called Beardmann
Believe it or not, I actually used the 1911 (alongside the Carcano) in a software quality class in which we were asked to define the many definitions of quality. I argued that the 1911 was essential in defining the modern handgun and how it remained a competitive design for a long time. With the Carcano I argued that because it was easy to manufacture and maintain, it had better quality than fancy rifles from other countries like Greece. My teachers and classmates were honestly pleasantly impressed with the presentation I gave
carcano wasn’t in the greatest cartridge but was great as an actual gun design. if LHO could take out jfk and it kept being used all the way through and in some cases after ww2 it must’ve been somewhat decent.
love these top 10 videos. can't wait for a revolver version and a small (32) pistol version as discussed in the beginning of the video!
There's a whole ton of knowledge and experience on display here. Othais and Mae seriously know their stuff!
It was meant to be ...Here I am in Australia wearing one of my C&Rsenal T-Shirts & this presentation drops...Perfect !
I'm curious to see where my oddball favorite Roth-Krnka winds up (and what new and creative ways Mae finds to malign it)!
Edit: OH MY GOD IT'S BEEN SNUBBED! *SNUBBED!!*
I love how Ian and you guys have this psudo-feud over the best "great war" pistols.
Mae adds a certain degree of fun to the channel great sense of humour
Did she grow a gray hair from too much fun
Yeah, what's up with that hair!?
Lol...knew I wasn't the only one who noticed.
@@redmorphius Probably an emotional response to firing the Chauchat...
@@wizardofahhhs759 Does someone need to explain you the concept of ones hair going grey?
You guys are the best source of historical firearms content information on any platform. Wish I could afford to be more than a passive supporter.
Your ability to describe these is incredible. Thank you for sharing!
a great balance of informative and entertaining as always, keep up the amazing job.
I love the resignation in her voice with "pass me the 1911"
The only handgun that I have ever held that said BUY ME! like it did was a reproduction of the P08 Luger by Stoeger I bought 30+ years ago. It was cheaper than actual Luger's were at the time.
well, yeah. obviously repros are gonna be cheaper they have no historical value
American Precision: "We've made the AF2011. It's the most powerful 1911 because it's two 1911's forged together."
Steyr and DWM: "Ah ah America, you are wieder late to zhe party, ja?"
Waiting on the top 10 .32 acp pistols and Top 10 Mauser Rifles with interest. It feels like you have covered more than 10 of each 😜
I’ve been excited for this special for a while. So glad to see it!
Ian sent me.
Yay! The Webley Self Loader always gives me a chuckle. Great roundup and charming presentation as always!
I always find it interesting that they both talk about the FN 1903 having too much recoil. Mine (the Swedish m/07 version) had a chamber modified for .380 ACP when I got it, and I thought the pistol just felt unbalanced and a little anemic in that caliber. Once I replaced the barrel and recoil spring and was able to use the original cartridge, I believe it to be much better handling. Just FWIW, I also have Colt Model Ms in both 32 and 380, and in that particular pistol, I find 380 to be considerably snappier and less pleasant than 32.
9x20 Browning is a bit hotter than 380, and in the 1903 is fairly snappy. Still not bad though and i would have personally placed it above the Hahn.
@@Gunsbeerfreedom87it somewhat depends on the loading, +p ammo for the 380 can reach almost identical performance to the 38 auto. but blowback guns in general are fairly snappy, unless it’s a decent size 32/25
It's impossible to do now, but it would've been great to have had some WW1 vets (regardless of side) give their opinions of what their top 10 pistols would be and why. They would've had first hand knowledge on which features are important and which weren't that may or may not be totally different than what we would think today.
Definitely, the priorities of the guys in the trenches were totally different than what a modern shooter in a safe and comfortable environment would prefer. Also different troops would have different opinions - I bet a Chauchat attendant would think about his pistol very differently than an officer and both would be different than a trench raider or a pilot.
But many of those guys only had access to the one pistol they were given or possibly a second if they bought their own. Would be interesting but they would probably have biases based on what they personally used.
Get a spirit board and find a cemetery.
@@wizardofahhhs759 Whenever we played with the Ouija board growing up, I was always moving it.
@@tysonatkinson2916I agree. In the modern economy with international trade and the Internet, someone can get and try guns that are made all over the world, but in the early 20th century it would have been much harder.
The Savage is the prettiest! The art deco double stack is superb.
TH-cam made a great suggestion for me with this video. I really enjoyed the way you two put together this content. I look forward to checking out more history from you.
Cheers from Texas!
27:00 This gun always reminds me of the pistols from Hellsing. Chambered in 13mm Clockwork Giant Panda.
Obviously, we now need you and Ian going head-to-head with each of your respective top five pistols, firing single-handed (as was the style at the time).
Forgotten weapons recommend your channel so you have a new viewer
Great subject. You talk about holsters. Would make a interesting episode to compare them and there practicality. Love your work.
Always a great show and content. Glad to be back with the WW1 story.
Loved this video so much! I'd love a follow up of revolvers next because there are some gems and some horrors out there
“No wheel guns”
I could hear a bunch if fudd’s heads explode from here.
I love revolvers so I was disappointed but not crushed.
I thought the M1917 S&W was a good backup to the M1911. Not as handy as a magazine fed Pistol, but I don't think I would feel upset if the unit armorer gave me one with the scarcity of the M1911 at the time.
Webley made it way higher than I expect
Excellent rundown of this top 10.
I like the Steyr 1911 as well. Two comments. The safety is unsafe. If you pull trigger with the safety on, the hammer moves. When you then move the safety off, the gun fires; no trigger needed.
My Dad had an interesting experience. Unknown to the dealer or us, his pistol had an auto sear: mag dump on first squeeze. On inspection, the whole trigger group was mismatched to the gun. We returned it and got another.
No notes, great summation episode. I appreciate all that you all do.
7:04 George Orwell wrote in Homage to Catalonia that he yearned for a pistol, and eventually bought one, for trench fighting. In Spanish Civil War, 1936-1939.
Great book!
Much appreciated!
I hope the time this got you did what it was supposed to!
GREAT VID YALL!!! Always GREAT stuff, thanks to Mae!!!
I'm a simple man, I see new C&Rsenal video, I click on C&Rsenal video. Love you guys
Wow Othias and Mae are both looking great! Fantastic discussion as well :)
Always good show you 2 are fun to listen to
I know it is too complex but I love the luger. Natural point and shoot. I also like the tokarev cartridge. It will punch a hole in a steel helmet.
That is the thing that makes the Luger so cool, and for a gun based on a pre1900 autoloader it is astounding.
Very fun episode. Thanks guys.
Thanks
During the "pros" section of each pistol i was getting major QVC vibes. or maybe home shopping network. very funny.
Shoulda put them on Lazy Susans and given them a slow spin.
The LP08 should have been at lest No. 1 or 2. It shoots great and has a lotof utility to it. Also when speaking of an offensive handgun none of the others could beat the LP08 with the drum magazine and the stock.
And even though it has a leave sight, its sights are compared to a lot of the other pistols much taller and therefore actually faster to use.
they couldn't let the Luger win, the 1911 fanboys would have a riot.
I have a question about the Steyr-Hahn, if you fire off a few rounds, can you easily just top off the magazine with loose rounds? Or must the magazine be emptied or must it use a stripper clip?
Yeah, you can lock the slide open and top it off. It’s a bit awkward, though
nice overveiw well reasoned and lodgical conclusions well done
The luger and 1911 both set the stage for what we all recognize as modern semi-auto handguns. The Luger brought the controls and grip style, the 1911 finally added a locked breech and slide operation. But even now, both pistols have their quirks, because both involve some measure of hand fitting parts and just the general weirdness you can get from early semi auto handguns. In fact, the modern pistol wouldn't really start to hit maturity for another 20 years. I'd argue the browning hi-power kinda was one of the first genuine modern pistols and it's a direct descendant of the 1911 (although at this point, his name is perhaps the most influential direct involvement for this pistol that Browning had).
Understanding that six rounds offers no real advantage over a wheel gun, I really like the Bergmann's sleek lines (relatively speaking), the flush mag has a clean look whereas the higher capacity hangs out there, greater utility but also harder to holster, if only there was another design solution...
Stripper clips. Clear, overwhelming advantage
still a big advantage in case of reloading
These are the best episodes
The Bayard 1910/21 was a favorite of mine, the changeable magazine made it better than the C-96 for me.
If only it was issued with larger magazines!
Great job.
Perhaps there should have been a category of most photographable pistol of the WW1 era? I would nominate the Luger LP08. One needs go no further than Cmdt Dan Breen's wedding photograph (April 1921). Sitting with his bride, Brigid Malone, his LP08, stock attached, is sitting across their laps. And speaking about pistols, the bride was the sister of none other than Lieut Michael Malone of the legendary Battle of Mount Street Bridge, whose Mause C96 is on petmanent display in the National Museum of Ireland.
The 1911 is a great example of listening to your customer (US Army) and adding features that attract them to other products so the customer gets what they want.
Just want to give credit, came here from Ian's video. Love you all and him both, and wanted to give him credit for pointing me here. Keep up the outstanding work!
Exactly what I needed for my hour lunch break
I was kind of expecting the list to be mostly Luger and Browning models, but keeping the more minor revisions out of it does make the list more interesting.
I own a Steyr Hahn in 9mm Steyr. I haven't fired it, but must admit it does feel very good in the hand and easy to rack that slide. They are a great conversation piece for the collection as they are a transitional design with new and old features. There are 9mm Luger versions around that were sold on contract to somewhere - Romania?.... My mate has one...he had some feed issues - kept jamming.
The Romanian contract was all 9 Steyr. The 9 Luger conversions were done much later. I have noticed lots of the old Sinoxid/GECO ammo foul the pistol up very fast. Usually, a few clips and the slide will fail to go back into battery. New production Fiocchi and Hirtenberger ammo does not have this issue.
Watching this while wearing my cycle of violence shirt!
I have to be honest, I think up until you got to your number three choice of the Webley, a 1917 .45 revolver with some moon clips would hold its own pretty well, for me anyway.
Just on the fact I have not handled most of these I agree. The Colt 1917 may look ungainly to some but I found it very natural feeling to shoot,accurate and quick to reload with practice.
id argue the1917 beats the webley. lower capacity but it’s almost identical capacity to a 1911 and SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than almost any other options
Good list
i liked your list and agree for the most part. After handling a dozen 'modern' pistols
I suppose that it is inevitable that criticism of your choices and comments will be from modern usage standpoints. I really appreciate you making so much effort to reinforce the Great War context. Fabulous presentation, thank you. And I heard clearly that this is Mae's choices, though Othais said that he generally agreed.
I get the vibe of the coolest grandparents in the world whatever I watch these two. Like they're way too cool to be somebody's parents. They just skip right to someone's awesomely cool.
And Othyus just has that voice, that could explain to a kid why his dog died and the kid would just slowly stop crying
My only gripe with this video so far is the lack of the short introductions to each weapon that were in the top 10 rifles video. Other than that, very good yob.
Came here from Ian's video, actually surprised that he was able to put a working link into the description since YT had basically killed all the links on the site in past 2-3 months. You can't copy text, you can't follow links, it's just insane.
It's always funny to me when people knock heel releases cause thats what I initially got very used to. My first pistol at 16 was a cz 52 and I got very much used to it, so much so that when I got my p08 luger, the first button mag release I ever owned, I went for the heel mag release as opposed to the button first time out shooting it. The only thing that corrected that impulse when I got more button mag release pistols was my cx4 carbine funny enough, though it now makes me use my middle finger as opposed to my thumb to hit the button. pistols with the button are def better, and there are some heel releases that suck I just think its funny that with all the modern handguns, heel releases dont really bother me.
If it doesn't work reliably, it shouldn't be on the list.
We're talking world war one as well though. Most were not reliable at all by today's standards.
There definitely were some that were better than others though!
I’d love to see your guy’s thoughts including 32’s, given how widespread they were.
This should be all sorts of interesting!
The webly looks like a p38 and glock had a baby lol. Great video!
It's the Glock's grandad.
You mean a ugly baby after a hate fuck with a lot of violence.
about the pistol drawing issue. one thing i don't see being taken into account here is that for the german pistols at least. pistols wear usually worn ( by doctrine at least) on the left side, meaning you wound not draw them straight up form your hip to your armpit, but over frome the left like a sword. this would mean drawing a longer pistol would be alot less arkward.
Great video, but surely no-one ever tried to lift a LP08 from the holster on their right side with their right hand as you demonstrate to explain why it's a bad choice amongst the Lugers? The LP08 would have been worn on the opposite side and drawn across the body on a shoulder-strapped holster, making a far easier to handle option, wouldn't it? The winner comes as no surprise, though. Much as I like oddities and would have loved to see a different winner, you can't really dispute the choice, except maybe for its quite limited capacity.
Thanks guys
Loved this very much. 🙂👍
With regard to rifles is there any chance of you doing a vid on the M1895 Lee Navy?
I have been harassing him about it for over a year now. One of these days he’ll break down and accept the loan offer
I wonder if in 1910 some folks were asking the equivalent of "Does it take Glock mags?" on the Bergman 1910.
Othias: "What is the number one most beautiful and coolest-looking pistol of this era?"
Me: The Mannlicher 1905
I had to frommer stop what I was doing to watch this
The LP08 doesn't have a front and a rear sight, guys.😅 It has front and middle sights!😂
Everyone elses top 10 just has 10...yeah but we can crank it up to eleven! The Spinal Tap top 11 😜
Surely an officer and a gentleman uses one hand as the other is holding his sword.
I was only mildly shocked with your 1st choice 😂
Blessings from Australia
Thankyou for all your efforts.✊
Wasn't the proclivity for getting hammer bit an original model 1911 presented, because of the need to keep a high grip and the short beaver tail one of the reasons that the M1911A1 came out?
The first 1911s had a short hammer spur. The US Cavalry wanted it lengthened to make thumb-cocking easier, and against Colt's objections that it would create hammer bite the longer spur was adopted in 1914. Sure enough it caused hammer bite, and finally in 1939 it was made shorter again. Of course modern shooters use a VERY high grip which is why beavertail safeties were introduced.
This also has a lot to go with the specific construction of the hand involved. I wear size XL gloves, so my hands are not small but there's no way I can make a 1911 ( even a pre-A1) bite me. There's a certain meatyness you need to have in a certain way on the back side of the web of your hand that causes the issue.
Thankyou
1911
FN 1903
FN 1910 .380 (sort of counts?)
Colt 1902
Beretta 1915
Nambu
Mauser C96
Steyr-Hahn
Bergmann
Steyr-Krnka
Luger 1900
I assume that is the same problem with the Mauser 98, still I have been in love with the design since I saw Clint Eastwood use one in my favorite western movie Joe Kidd!
Smart woman - the P.04 is clearly the pick of the Luger litter.
Do one on the cartridges, and the propellants!
Now you're talking, propellants are (for lack of a better term) somewhat ignored. Like my S&W model 1896 hand ejector model in .32 S&W long (mine is from the 1950s) was initially made for black powder and soon went smokeless, but every time I eject cases there's still a mess of ash or whatever all over. Probably remnants of a burnt flake powder? I know almost nothing practical about different propellants, I would watch a video on that.
@@Face2theScr33n possibly because it's all but impossible to actually compare them in any meaningful way.
Recreating the exact mix a country used in a given time frame as a civilian is basically impossible because some of those chemicals are outright illegal to possess without special licenses and even then you're not making it on an industrial scale so you have no idea what the variable are and even then you have to account for the fluctuations in available materials to a given country at a given time in the war which effects the chemical make-up and how quickly it degrades in storage and how that degradation effects performance at various ranges in what weather conditions and.....
i think you get the idea. Gunpowder ain't just gunpowder, obviously. You can read a book to see what the official specs are, but it takes some serious forensic scientific shit to be able to comparatively test them against one another and get a result that's worth anything. The idea sounds cool, but in practicality it'd devolve into a long, dry chemistry lecture explain what the minute differences one compound theoretically has over another, and why country x couldn't actually produce it's standard powder anyway so here's a list on what they substituted when and then more dry science....
unfortunately that's a topic that will always fall in to 'not worth the effort of making the video' when you compare work hours required versus how many people would actually watch it
I have to watch later but did they mention the walther model 4?
I love this gun so much it shoots great
"Bore axis is in another zip code." -Othias
😂bro im dead quote of 2023/24
That was very interesting. I am a 1911 guy, and found this very interesting to see how pistol design was advancing and influencing the John Browning 1911 creation.
If we consider the jumping into an enemy trench and slapping leather (or canvas) to overwhelm the enemy, I'm still going with a 1911 in .45ACP as my first choice, but I can see why Dough Boys sought captured Lugers.
The Styer 1912 has a safety issue. After a shot if ya nock the saftey lever out of safe but not all the way into safe and put it in fire mood it fires.
Under an hour?! Not cool! Jokes aside I’ve been waiting for this for so long!!!
I wonder where a time-displaced Hi-Point would fall in this list.
Y'know, I wish there was a little note that said what time it was when they were recording these "in studio" parts, because many of them have big 3am energy.