1 Timothy 2:11-12 “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.” That is very straight forward and simple. Paul is teaching this principle to Timothy, and it is not only for certain cultures or churches, it’s for all. Just as their is an authority structure in the Tri-une Godhead, so there is an authority structure in the family and the church. In 1 Corinthians 11:1-3 Paul says, “Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” This is the exact same structure of leadership that was initiated in the book of Genesis! God gave authority to the first man, over the first woman. So here is the logic from scripture: Jesus had a different role than the Father. He submitted himself to the headship of the Father. He was equal in value to the Father. On the same note. Women have a different role than men. They should submit to the headship of men. They are equal in value to men. Women are not inferior to men or lesser than men and should not be treated as such. Their capability, intelligence, giftings or skills are not the reason for this and are not lesser because of this. Just as God chose the Jews as His people, so He chose man to have authority over his wife and the church. But the Bible is clear that a man should love his wife and put her needs before his own. Both men and women should willingly submit themselves to the leadership structure God has established. To not do that is to sin against the Lord.
That's complicated because in Jesus case it is because of the way He is born, not omnscient, omnipresent and omnipotent like the Father, He gets His Holiness and power from the Father. And in the jews case, if another type of race or ethnicity would come to devote to God, would they prohibited to do it? Why is it so that women can't teach a man?
Paul was indoctrinated in the system of women and men of his time, that's why he talked about how shameful it is for a man to have long hair and how shameful it is for a woman to not wear a veil, like, today those things are completely normal. Imagine His surprise if he grasped the idea of female presidents and queens having authority over men He does not permit it, but does God permit a woman to teach and to have authority?
My question, then, is, what did Paul mean when he said, "...as the law says."? Paul mentions “the law,” yet no Old Testament law, Talmudic law, or Mishna law mandating women remain silent exists. Does this align with Paul’s usual high regard for the Law? Could Paul be referencing Pharisaical traditions? This seems unlikely since no Jewish law or tradition enforces women’s silence in church.
@@DavidHarrisondavidoharrison Christ Jesus changed the name of SAUL into PAUL... which means his BELIEF (Heart, Mind, Soul, Strength) was also changed... St. Paul said/wrote, "When the PRIESTHOOD (Levitical) was changed, there was a necessity to change the LAW (Moses/Mosaic) as well." ... (ref. Hebrews 7:12)... Facts and Truth of the Matters, Biblically and Logically speaking... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
@jvlp2046 *Women aren't authorized to be preachers by GOD, the Priesthood which started with Melchizedek to Aaron which leads to Christ as Hight Priest in Heaven has no women in it, Christianity doesn't change that. Just Stop With The Spirit Of Eve Nonsense Already!*
As a woman, i am REQUIRED by God to be a teacher of women and chikdren and people younger than i. And spread the gospel to everyone and be a watchman. Jesus is King!
The gospel is a teaching. The first and most important of all. If a woman can teach a man the gospel, she can teach all the lesser teachings to men. This is logic. Even in the teaching/preaching of the gospel, a man may ask a woman about something scriptural/spiritual. So if the man asks about the so-called 7 deadly sins, she can't say a word? If indeed she can speak to him about this as an unsaved man, then she can't once he becomes saved? When all this becomes about gender, instead of the Holy Spirit, there is confusion.
@jamesdaniel1376 first of all.. we don't know exactly what that meant and how they interacted with Apollos.. Can't verify or oppose a doctrine based on a story with a passing comment. 2nd, this was not a church setting. They took him aside privately and the wife being submitted to her husband can offer her wisdom on such topics. She was not in authority over Apollos, she was submitted to her husband as "they" showed him more clarity. This hardly proves women teaching in church.
@@PBAdventures146 In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed. A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting. If your beliefs can't explain all this, they must be false. Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
@@TimeIsOver-333 It's clear in which bible? Which translation? Which ones from over the years? So clear that people can't agree about basic details. It's more clear that the Paul that wrote 1 Corinthian is not the person who wrote Timothy.
@ Stop justifying your ways…God will surely bring this to judgment. Men and woman clearly have different roles. He has a certain order of things. You need to repent.
I have boundless respect for Cliff. He is on the front lines all the time. However, he is culturally driven in this stance. The Bible is crystal clear that women are not to be elders/deacons or preach from the pulpit. In a practical way, this is one of many factors that has killed the Episcopal, Presbyterian, and Methodist mainline denominations. And, that breaks my heart as I was born into and raised up in and accepted Christ in the Episcopal Church.
Agreed. Mike Winger did a deep dive on women in the church and the result was more than 12 hours of video. Cliff is telling them what tickles their ears.
@buckyoung4578: I agree. Women should not have the titles "pastor," "elder," or "decon/deconess." They can teach younger children, just not be ordained. 😊
The problem is with people chasing titles. I divorced my former spouse because she had multiple affairs and I am currently happily single. That does not mean that I cannot share the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and lead people to the Lord (Romans 10:9-10) and disciple them. I don't care about an earthly title, other than being a "fisher of men". Women can do the same for women as well within the flock, and they can share the Gospel. Buck, I pray that you don't let it break your heart as we are told in Scripture that we will see a great falling away. We are seeing this happen in real time with people falling away from what is written in Scriptures, chasing titles, pastors succumbing to scandal and greed, etc. It is sad, but we are to stand firm in the Gospel, share it far and wide, and love our neighbor as ourselves.
@@rickdavis2235 I 100% agree with you, but one person leading the congregation was never the way it was meant to be. The elder was never meant to be the only one who taught. scripture is very clear, though, that an elder can only be a married man, and there are other qualifications as well that are very specific, as I’m sure you’re aware
That maybe true, but he is wrong on this, and many churches have women in leadership and have become politically correct in order not to offend them, because church is 80 percent women attended in America. It's sad that Americans have fallen out of favor of Jesus 😢😢😢
@@shotstanton4666 I don’t know what you mean by that, but that is what Cliff talked about when we examine any piece of scripture. Context is always key.
I agree context is necessary to read Scripture but I reject your interpretation or context on women preaching. Context in 1 Timothy 2:10-15 reads in context Paul is very clear. Churches that have Co-Pastors also violate what Paul said. Also, in 1 Timothy 3, the entire chapter has only two offices in the church, Bishop and Deacon. In context, Bishop is likely a Pastor and Deacon, a Deacon or someone that takes care of the Church when the Pastor/Bishop is absent. Both offices are for a man being good husbands with an obedient family and a good reputation. I don't see wife as a Bishop being a good wife for her husband and an obedient family. Many churches headed by a woman or those who have Co-Pastors where the wife is a Pastor because of her marriage to him is all in error and in my view sinful and rebellious to the Scripture because it twists Scripture to fit the wants of sinful man and wife. I agree to disagree about this and I don't attend churches that have women over the leadership in the Church except over the women in the Church.
Paul had a minimum of two serious false teachings Paul believed he was a spiritual 'father' that gave birth to Christians. Paul taught that certain men were deified. There is no reason to blindly accept his teachings about Christian women in ministry. (Each of the above is addressed by me. Reply if there is interest.) Be careful of the teachings of Paul. Only accept the valid ones.
@@Szpak-123 Paul was certainly sinful and fallible. The Bible says the Scriptures were written by man but the Holy Ghost inspired what these men wrote. These are God's Words and Jesus taught from the Old Testament and they are infallible. Either you believe the Bible as written by God entirely or reject it entirely. This doctrine comes from sinful modern churches. That is all I have to say on the matter.
@@richardallison8745 I've been a Christian a long time. I used to just accept everything by Paul, but those days are long gone. Top suggestions if any reader should wish a study: Part 10 The most serious false teaching of Paul. Part 6 Another serious false teaching of Paul (This entire informal essay is too long to be pasted up all at once.) TABLE OF CONTENTS OF: PAUL HIS FALSE, CONTRADICTORY, AND CONFUSING TEACHINGS -S. Szpak INTRODUCTION Part 1 PAUL'S CONVERSION STORY Part 2 PAUL INSTRUCTS/ORDERS TIMOTHY TO BE CIRCUMCISED Part 3 PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY Part 4 PAUL STATES IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS AS LONG AS NO ONE SEES YOU DOING SO Part 5 PAUL SEEMS TO ALTER HIS BELIEFS AND WHATEVER ELSE IS NECESSARY FOR THE "SAKE OF THE GOSPEL". Part 6 PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE Part 7 PAUL'S SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE IS WEAK Part 8 PAUL WRITES OF HEARING DIVISIONS WITHIN THE CHURCH AND HOW THIS WAS NOT PROPER AND SHOULD STOP YET STATES THAT CHRISTAINS SHOULD FOLLOW PAUL Part 9 PAUL WAS OK WITH THE UNSAVED PREACHING THE GOSPEL Part 10 PAUL REFERS TO HIMSELF AS A SPIRITUAL FATHER THE MOST SERIOUS FALSE TEACHING OF PAUL Part 11 PAUL STATES THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT Part 12 PAUL IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING ELDERS. THEREFORE HE IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING SHEPHERDS/PASTORS. PART 13 PAUL'S FALSE BELIEF THAT THE RETURN OF JESUS WOULD TAKE PLACE WITHIN A HUMAN LIFETIME RESULTS IN HIM TEACHING AGAINST MARITAL SEX AND NORMAL EMOTIONS PART 14 PAUL STATES THAT HE IS A PERFECT CHRISTIAN Part 15 PAUL TEACHES THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HIERARCHICAL CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS
@@Szpak-123 Instead of following something you read or heard outside the Scriptures, why don't you pray for the Holy Spirit to interpret or help you to understand what the Word says instead of hearing from a sinful man. Man tends to mess things up and praying for understanding that the Holy Spirit is paramount over everything. Trust God and not books or videos. Scripture was twisted to convince man that women pastors are okay and that Paul is in error. I don't have the faith in believing something that is not in the Bible and I don't trust any man over what the Comforter (Holy Spirit) teaches.
@@richardallison8745 Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really. I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God. In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed. A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting. If your beliefs can't explain all this, they must be false. Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
It's amazing how when it comes to the passage discussed in this video, everyone says, "It's simple and straightforward!" But when it comes to other scriptures, interpretation is needed. Why is it that you have women who are prophets, deacons, one as a judge, etc., in leadership positions and none of that is talked about or applies to now, but when it comes to this one passage of scripture, it applies for all time?
Because people are close minded. Even Paul urged people to compare any religious teaching with the foundational teachings of Jesus, and then only to accept. But sadly people have made Paul the foundation and Jesus the bricks. However Jesus never preached any of the patriarchal things which Paul did, in fact he preached the opposite and called everyone as being equal now through him. Yet Paul obviously didn't know this, and is the reason even he points to Mosaic law which shows women as being subservient to men cos any vow a woman makes towards God can be overturned by her husband or father, but the under certain circumstances, the husband then has complete the vow. And due to this and the lack of knowledge of the fact that Jesus himself said not to make anymore vows, Paul continues believing that serving God in any capacity in the church is a vow that must be upheld till death and Hence banns women from holding any form of position in church unless they are old widows. Furthermore we even see proof that Paul didn't know vows shouldn't be made cos he shaves his head cos of vows he had created before in the books of Acts. Yet Christians don't pieace these together cos they've essentially made the Bible into the Quran, as in they view it as the incorruptible word of God when the only true incorruptible word of God is Jesus' Christ and his finished works on the cross that has sealed our path to salvation. Everything else is basically just filler.
@DruPetty42 Paul was specifically talking about the order in churches and the order for which they are to be run. That is when he brought up women not teaching or having authority over men in the Church. I capitalize the C in the last Church because this also refers to His teachings of how God is the head of Christ; Christ the head of men; Men the head of women. Now, in the instance of the wonderful women you listed, those are different roles than preaching. God gives the roles of prophesying, judging, etc to women. However, leading the service in church is not one of the roles given to women which is fine and not in any way repressing of women. If that were the case then it is repressive that God didn’t create man to give birth.
@@WhatInTheWorldSJ My original comment is witnessed by Bible scripture (which is the Word of God). I would suggest you read your Bible - specifically, I Corinthians 14.38.
His point is countered by what we are witnessing in the modern church. Every denomination which has accepted women as pastors and elders has ultimately gone completely overboard with the LGBTQetc agenda.
That does not mean a biblically sound female would do that. Plenty of male-led churches have gone down that path, but you don't use that as an excuse to disqualify all men, do you?
When someone says, "what about this part of the Bible, that offends me so how can that be good?". The right answer is always, "well, because you're wicked, so why wouldn't good offend you?". We ought not ever attempt to make Scripture "palatable" to the appetites of the world.
We should all be offended by scripture everyday, if you don't get offended you have no soul, because we all fall short of his Glory everyday. Thank you Jesus for loving me right where I am at.
The root problem is most people don't understand 2nd Timothy 2:15 15 👉Study👈 to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, 👉rightly dividing👈 the word of truth. If it contradicts Paul's gospel, it isn't church doctrine.
This topic has been genuinely confusing me for a while. To the best of your ability could you please help me reconcile all of this? Paul said he doesn't permit women to teach, does that mean he's setting it as a rule or explain to Timothy how he personally ran the church, then also why he mentions how they should prophesy if he was saying that they shouldn't speak. Anothe rthing for me is Priscilla, she was a missionary so she went around with her husband teaching and preaching as a woman and was commended by Paul. Its really confusing to me could you grant me your view on this to help understand how to interpret all of this given the context?
@@Covenant_living Hello🙂. So Apostle Paul spake as he was moved by the holy ghost, set forth tht rule/commandment in the church to tell tht though women can prophecy (telling wat happens in the future by the holy ghost), women cannot preach because in order to be a God sent preacher u must be called, sent, and anointed to preach the gospel, while usurping authority over the people/congregation (teaching comes along as well). Women cannot usurp authority over the man because God said set a man over the congregation, in the beginning it caused all of mankind to suffer due to Eve being deceived, and Adam was formed first later on ruling over his wife. It was told in Titus 2:4 tht the aged woman may teach the younger woman how they ought to be and act. As to Priscilla, she was with her husband while they took in Apollos and helped Paul but she never preached only helped and ministered needs and service to all which they did. Jesus himself never took a woman to send her into the world to preach, he only took men. I do not intend to hurt anyone’s feelings or offend them in any way but the truth is the truth. God bless😇🙏
@@hezekiahwebber4918U never see a plane or tv or cell phone or car in the Bible either. NOT EVEN A PULPIT but here we are. Just because God didn’t pick women doesn’t mean he doesn’t approve of women in high positions of authority. More and more men are dying now at a rate never before seen in history so all you will HAVE left ARE women. God blessed women to be doctors and cops and mayors and firefighters but a woman can’t proclaim God’s word? More men have pussied out of their God ordained positions (husbands/fathers leaving their families/punks) leaving women to act as both mom AND dad while “DAD” acted like a weak punk and run from his responsibilities. Miss me with all that.
It never says women can't teach or preach. BUT, authority positions within a church are 100% the man's duty. Sunday school teacher is fine, but I don't personally agree with a woman being a youth pastor or lead pastor (looks intently as Joyce Meyers).
@@shadowmann9not at all. God gave great gifts to women. There's literally a prophetess in the Bible, and Paul writes that as a major gift. Women have value and they do provide a lot to the kingdom of God through ministry. They are not to be trophies and toys used by their husbands to have children and cook. Hell, people think kids and teens can provide a good message, why not a full-grown woman?
@@A-A-RonDavis2470 Simply because of God's will. Men: Ephesians 5:23: For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Women: 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
@@bernhardbauer5301you're not even understanding the Scripture that you gave. Everything is God's Will, and that's the most important thing. Man's gifts are also God's Will. Women have a PROFOUND effect on the kingdom of God, especially if they're married. Their purpose is to supplement the husband's purpose. They are a support system, and help cover them spiritually, and are one-half of the reason for their children's prosperity or failure. Yes, wives submitting to their husbands is submitting to God, but that isn't just bending the knee and being a sx toy and a cook, while raising the children. It's honoring and respecting the authority of the husband in the marriage. Husbands listen to their wives all the time and are blessed because the wives were right. Women a lot of times are also given a gift of discernment, so that they watch for any wolves in sheep's clothing that their husbands aren't aware of. You're downplaying the importance of women not only in Scripture, but in the kingdom of God. Yes, there is a hierarchy of authority, but we're not gonna be neckbeards about it and consider women second-class or slaves.
@@A-A-RonDavis2470 None of that changes the facts. The scriptures say that a woman cannot preach, or lead men. None of what you wrote changes that or has anything to do with Biblical scripture. Nobody said women do not have worth.
@JuanTorres-777 Acts 16:13-16 recounts the story of the first church in Europe. At Philippi, Paul encountered a group of women praying. One was Lydia, who opened her home to Paul and the new converts. In Phil. 4:3, we learn of two other women in the Philippian church, Euodia and Syntyche, who Paul said, “labored with me in the gospel.” When Paul arrived in Corinth, Priscilla and Aquila invited him to stay with them until they all relocated to Ephesus some months later. When Paul left Ephesus for his missionary tour, he left Priscilla and Aquila in charge of the church that met in their home. When Apollos arrived in Ephesus, he was an eloquent believer and teacher, but was uninstructed in some doctrines. Priscilla and Aquila taught him more about the gospel. This remarkable couple are mentioned six times in the New Testament, and most of the time Priscilla is mentioned first (contrary to the culture) suggesting that Paul considered her the leader of the two. Let’s not forget Phoebe, who Paul mentioned in Romans 16:1 as a “deacon of the church of Cenchrea.” (The Greek word is Diaconos) She carried Paul’s letter to the Romans from Greece - a perilous journey by sea and land. Paul commended her work in the church at Cenchrea. In I Corinthians 12, Romans 12:6-8 and Eph.4:11 Paul discusses at length the “spiritual gifts” given to the church. Nowhere does Paul say that certain gifts or callings are for men and others for women. All are given by the Spirit to build up the church.
@JuanTorres-777 I can go on and on with scripture. Allow the HOLY SPIRIT the SPIRIT of Truth to enlighten your understanding of the WORD OF the living GOD.
I usually ask the Christian in front of me if they believe these are the “last days” bc the scripture is clear about His use of men and women in the last days. I’m not going to argue with people about context when they have no desire to study anything about Corinth at the time of the context or about Gnosticism infiltration into the early church that he was speaking to.
I’m not going to listen to all of this It is literally the most simplest thing, but yet again Cliffe has to do this runaround nonsense to get to a simple answer. The answer is no. Women cannot preach in the church. Or in other words be in position of power like a pastor or father and so on. Women can share their faith, they can read from the Bible and they can have discussions and debates about scripture in church or anywhere, but they cannot take leadership position in the church. And you can’t just say “oh that was the custom of the time”. Or “that was just St Paul’s opinion”. No. You are wrong. God was speaking through St Paul. 😊
@ Being a prophet and being a priest or a bishop in a church are different. You can have a female prophet who is a member of a congregation. You don't need to have a special position in the church to be a prophet. Although prophets are rare, God can choose anyone for that role, and as I said women can teach the Bible just not from a position of power in the church. So no female priest's. That doesn't mean women are less in anyway, it just means there is order in the church like there is in a family. God set this order
@ First of don't be coming at me with attitude it wasn't me who set the order of things it was God. And yeah many modern heretical churches do ignore the word of God, and allow women to be priests because it's all about them and never about God. And also I don't need to do anything i go to a church that actually loves God and recognises the order that he made. One that doesn’t just cherry pick his words to fit their feelings. So I don't need to do anything, but God will.
God wasn't speaking with Paul all the time. If he was, Paul wouldn't have contradicted Jesus' teachings by making vows and shaving his head or even circumcising Timothy to please the Jews. Truth of the matter is, Paul only knew the foundation of salvation, but he did not know the liberation of people from all the customs. At least not during the time of writing his letters which contrasted between Jesus'teachings and his. However Paul himself tells us to compare any teaching with the foundation which Jesus set and only then to accept it if it aligns. And no where does his patriarchal teachings align. Infact the reason he even points to women being under men is cos he points all the way back to the fall of man and and a Mosaic law that comes cos of it where a woman is ordered to keep her vows which she makes which can yet be overturned by her husband or father. Yet we are explicitly told by Jesus not to make vows and that all of us equal now through him. Furthermore this lack of understanding of Paul is even the reason he calls widowed church wardens and helpers who have gone and gotten married again and left their post as being held in the grip of the devil cos again he views anyone who takes up posts in church as making a vow to God. And so he says don't let young widows hold even those kinda posts in a church lest they get married again and commit sin. So believe what you want, but remember, all teachings should build upon Christ, not the other way around as even Paul acknowledged.
he avoided the question in a very good roundabout. He is more interested in getting views that telling the truth. Can women preach in church? He avoided that question, why? He has a big following and views are required to monetize on youtube. He is speaking to a crowd not for and to them, but to the video camera and for 82.600 viewers and will speak rational and avoid this question to keep his audience. He also is wrong in how to interpret the passage. He uses the world view of interpretation of context, literary style and interpretation to not offend the scholars and rational skeptics. What he failed to do or to acknowledge is that the bible is not a world created book. He also failed to involve the Holy Spirit action and ability to transform the scriptures from hidden to seen. Be careful of a man who uses rationale and worlds reason, fails to acknowledge God and Holy Spirit and Jesus as the primary movers of truth.
Apostle Paul has made it Crystal clear on how a woman is to conduct herself in the household of God, the Church! Apostle Paul ties directly into the created order! He said a woman is NOT ALLOWED to TEACH or PREACH or hold authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression...... So if one would still like to argue with this, they're arguing with God's inspired words and one ought not do that! 2nd Timothy 3:16. ❤
@@Szpak-123it’s hard to take someone like yourself seriously who doesn’t believe the bible is the inerrant infallible authoritative word of God, and then use that same word to argue against other parts of Gods word as if you’ve just dismantled Paul and the unity of the whole bible. Repent brother.
@@Steve_T14 I've been a Christian a long time. I used to just accept everything by Paul, but those days are long gone. Top suggestions if any reader should wish a study: Part 10 The most serious false teaching of Paul. Part 6 Another serious false teaching of Paul (This entire informal essay is too long to be pasted up all at once.) TABLE OF CONTENTS OF: PAUL HIS FALSE, CONTRADICTORY, AND CONFUSING TEACHINGS -S. Szpak INTRODUCTION Part 1 PAUL'S CONVERSION STORY Part 2 PAUL INSTRUCTS/ORDERS TIMOTHY TO BE CIRCUMCISED Part 3 PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY Part 4 PAUL STATES IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS AS LONG AS NO ONE SEES YOU DOING SO Part 5 PAUL SEEMS TO ALTER HIS BELIEFS AND WHATEVER ELSE IS NECESSARY FOR THE "SAKE OF THE GOSPEL". Part 6 PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE Part 7 PAUL'S SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE IS WEAK Part 8 PAUL WRITES OF HEARING DIVISIONS WITHIN THE CHURCH AND HOW THIS WAS NOT PROPER AND SHOULD STOP YET STATES THAT CHRISTAINS SHOULD FOLLOW PAUL Part 9 PAUL WAS OK WITH THE UNSAVED PREACHING THE GOSPEL Part 10 PAUL REFERS TO HIMSELF AS A SPIRITUAL FATHER THE MOST SERIOUS FALSE TEACHING OF PAUL Part 11 PAUL STATES THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT Part 12 PAUL IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING ELDERS. THEREFORE HE IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING SHEPHERDS/PASTORS. PART 13 PAUL'S FALSE BELIEF THAT THE RETURN OF JESUS WOULD TAKE PLACE WITHIN A HUMAN LIFETIME RESULTS IN HIM TEACHING AGAINST MARITAL SEX AND NORMAL EMOTIONS PART 14 PAUL STATES THAT HE IS A PERFECT CHRISTIAN Part 15 PAUL TEACHES THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HIERARCHICAL CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS
@@Szpak-123 you’re just a bot copying and pasting the same comment everywhere, end of the day if you don’t hold Gods word as authoritative and inerrant guidance for the believer, you’re no better than the liberal Christians who twist scripture to say whatever they want it to say and allow gay marriage, homosexual behaviour, lying, divorce, adultery, gossiping and other things that destroy a church. You need to repent and believe. You’re not a Christian if you reject Gods word.
@@Szpak-123 translation of what you just said: I used to be a Christian and had faith in the word of God, then I compromised my faith and no longer have faith in anything repent and believe
You all love to take 1 chapter and run with it. It is vital when reading Gods word, that we ask for his guidance, clarity and understanding- lest you be lead into error. The idea that women cannot preach or teach in the church often stems from a misunderstanding of specific passages, such as 1 Timothy 2:12-14 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. However, it is vital that these passages be interpreted in context. In the cultural and historical setting of the early church, women were often uneducated and unfamiliar with Scripture, which could lead to disruptions during teaching. Paul's instructions were aimed at addressing these specific issues of order, not creating a universal ban on women preaching. Scripture provides numerous examples of women in leadership roles, teaching, and prophesying. Deborah was a prophet and judge over Israel (Judges 4:4-5), leading and guiding God's people. In the New Testament, Priscilla, alongside her husband Aquila, taught Apollos, a respected teacher of the early church, explaining to him the way of God more accurately (Acts 18:26). Additionally, women such as Phoebe served as a deacon in the church (Romans 16:1-2), and Paul recognized Junia as “outstanding among the apostles” (Romans 16:7), affirming her significant leadership role. Furthermore, Joel 2:28-29, fulfilled at Pentecost in Acts 2:17-18, declares that God’s Spirit is poured out on both men and women, empowering them to prophesy. Galatians 3:28 reinforces the equality of men and women in Christ, saying, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." These examples demonstrate that God calls and equips both men and women to teach, preach, and lead for His purposes. Any interpretation that denies women this role contradicts the overarching message of Scripture about God's inclusive call and the gifting of His Spirit.
I find the quotation and refutation interpretation reading of that passage in 1 Cor 14 to be convincing. Paul is quoting a saying of the Corinthians, as he does a few times throughout the letter, and then refutes is in the following verses, affirming that everyone should strive to project but to do so in an orderly manner. (1 Corinthians 14 is also specifically talking about interpretation of tongues and evaluating legitimacy of prophecy, not teaching or speaking generally.)
@@BazilGaming-z3t exactly... just made up a story about women causing a ruckus in the church.... people are so quick to follow man rather than accept what thus says the Lord!
Actually Aquila and Priscilla did teach Apollos together Romans 16:3-4 3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: 4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. Acts 18: 1-3 1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; 2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them. 3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers. Acts 18:18 And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow. Acts 18:24-26 24 ¶And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. 1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house. 2 Timothy 4: 19 19 Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus.
YEP ! GAL 3 vs 28 29 ! There is neithter jew or Greek, there is neither slave or free ,there is neither male nor female ,for we are all one in Christ Jesus! Amen 🙏 🫶 🙌 ✨️
@@charlesdarmanin8763 Context is important. Those verses had nothing to do with teaching or leading in the church, and everything to do with being saved.
It's so sad that people born some few decades ago want to correct God, thinking that He made mistake;By commanding women to keep silence in churches, trying to sympathize with women.Its God that spoke through Paul.
In 1 Timothy 2 13-14 Paul gives the reason for his statements in verses 11-12 of the same chapter that a woman should learn in quietness and full submission. and not teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
Prophecy is the foretelling of a specific event that will occur in the future while preaching is expounding on a specific text to deliver a message that results in learning, guidance, instruction, correction, repentance, believing, etc!
@passportreadyvibes4131 Yes it can be foretelling, Propheteuo: to prophesy, to foretell things to come to declare truths through the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit, whether by prediction or not.
Paul meant that women should not take on head pastoral roles as a shepherd of the church, this is not their role. But they can teach, preach and share in other settings and roles.
@@noelpucarua2843because it’s pretty clear, Paul backs this up by going back to genesis, and comparing it to when Gods headship model that He created in Him being the head, Adam being led by God and Adam’s wife being led by her husband, was turned upside down and sin entered the world. Paul wasn’t just some mad raving looney who said whatever he wanted to in an attempt to suppress women, he was an apostle chosen by God to preach the true gospel and sound doctrine. If you reject Paul’s words you’re not rejecting Paul, you’re rejecting Gods authority over His church.
@@Steve_T14 I'm rejecting your claim to say what Paul means. How do you get to decide what Paul means, what Genesis means, or that anyone is "chosen by God"? You don't even say which church is "His church". You, and mrscottpodcast, have made such big claims that maybe you think you are "His church" Tell me clearly, who gave you authority to say what scripture means? Because that's what it comes down to.
@ Scripture gives believers of Christ to interpret it in Timothy 3:16-17. Let’s be clear about this, both stances for complimentarianism and egalitarianism cannot both be true, one must be right and one must be a wrong as they are opposed interpretations of scripture. So you have to weigh up the evidence of what Paul is saying, you are arguing in the camp where if you read what Paul is saying, and you examine the context and evidence, scriptures words are against you, so you may argue your rejecting my authority to interpret scripture, but again you’re only rejecting the authority of Gods word. One day you will have to answer for that, not to me, but to God. Scripture is pretty simple on this matter, it is God breathed and authoritative, and it says women are not to hold leadership positions in the church.
@@Steve_T14 Believers interpret scripture very differently from one another. What makes you special? You haven't even shown that Paul is chosen by God. You haven't even established the authority of the Bible. Tell me this. Who decided which books were to be included in the Bible, and which books were to be excluded from the Bible? Someone, even some people, decided that. You know that is the case. Why do you base your faith on their decisions? Until you have established the truth of their decisions you have to rely on your opinion and your opinion only. Do you even know who those people were? Can you say who they were. Can you say why you believe in their decisions? It is your faith in people you don't know, and in their decisions, that is at the very heart of the matter. Before quoting Paul, and interpreting him, you have to establish the truth of the decisions made by people you don't know. So, name the people who decided which books to include, and which to exclude from the Bible, and tell me why you believe in them.
It’s a simple question of what is your authority. Is your authority the word of God, that forbids women in leadership roles in the church due to the fall of man from Genesis, when Gods headship model of authority was turned upside down and sin entered the world through Eve leading Adam into sin, or is your authority yourself who follows your deceitful heart and believe that women are called into leadership roles. If you reject Paul’s words on the leadership structure of how a church is to be, you’re not rejecting Paul, you’re rejecting Gods authority in His word.
Adam heard it straight from God’s mouth to not eat the fruit, but he did it anyway. Not because he was weak and “listened to his wife”, but because he also wanted to be like God. He just thought that he could blame Eve for it, and he’d get away scot free.
@@kimonokat1928 The reason Adam is blamed for sin entering the garden in the bible and not eve is because Adam was the head of his wife. Sin entered because he didn’t rebuke his wife for wanting to disobey God. Adam should have told his wife not to eat it instead he listened to her. Genesis 3:17 tells us why God punished Adam “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree which I commanded you saying “you shall not eat from it” cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you will eat of it, all the days if your life. “ The bible doesn’t say Adam ate because he wanted to be like God, it says he was cursed because he listened to his wife over obeying God, it says Eve took the fruit and gave it to her husband because she wanted to be wise like God and listened to the serpent. Your interpretation is wrong.
@@Steve_T14 you wrote: ..., it says he was cursed... Were Adam and Eve cursed due to the Fall? First what, SPECIFICALLY, was cursed is what is important to know. The serpent was cursed. The 'ground' was cursed. __________________________________________ Then the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all the livestock,... -excerpt Genesis 3 __________________________________________ Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’; Cursed is the ground because of you;... -excerpt Genesis 3 _________________________________________ The curse on the ground was prophesied to be lifted by Lamech. Now Lamech lived 182 years, and fathered a son. And he named him Noah, saying, “This one will give us comfort from our work and from the hard labor of our hands caused by the ground which the Lord has cursed.” -excerpt Genesis 5 Noah name meaning = rest Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took some of every kind of clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. The Lord smelled the soothing aroma, and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done. -excerpt Genesis 8 Was Adam cursed? NO Was Eve cursed? NO _______________________________ To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you shall deliver children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” So women now experience great pain in childbirth, yet there are more people on earth now than have ever been in the earth's history. In the natural view of things, the strong dominate the weak. Strong animals over the weaker. Strong countries over the weaker. The physically stronger gender over the weaker gender. There is a natural tendency for men to want/need to rule over women, even though both genders are equal before God. As God said: And he shall rule over you. God explains to Eve that Adam would treat her differently now. This was a warning to Eve. It extends to all women, in that men in general view women as lesser in a spiritual way. Men in general, regard a woman being over them as a humiliation, because they see women as lesser beings. Not equals. So Abimelech came to the tower and fought against it, and approached the entrance of the tower to burn it down with fire. But a woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech’s head, crushing his skull. Then he called quickly to the young man, his armor bearer, and said to him, “Draw your sword and kill me, so that it will not be said of me, ‘A woman killed him.’” So the young man pierced him through, and he died. -excerpt Judges 9 Genesis 5, which comes after the Fall of mankind (in Genesis 3) says this below: This is the book of the generations of Adam. On the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them “mankind” on the day when they were created. In Genesis 1 below we read this: So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Obviously, the earth has more people than ever in its history. Obviously, the earth is subdued. Trees cut. Rivers dammed. Gold and oil extracted, etc. __________________________________________________ CONCLUSION Natural tendencies changed regarding men and women after the fall. Natural physical changes also. Women were not cursed. Men were not cursed. Men and women are still blessed.
@@Szpak-123 you’re arguing over semantics over a point I wasn’t even making. I’ll entertain you though even though I’m convinced you are a bot. Men and woman apart from God are depraved because of the sin that entered the world through the fall of man. Isaiah 64:6. Man and woman are dead in their sins without Christ. This wasn’t the point I was making though, even though you chose to nitpick. The point being is that sin was allowed to enter the world because man submitted to his wife instead of God. Genesis 3:16 “you will desire for your husband, AND HE WILL RULE OVER YOU”. Women have no place to be ordained in positions of authority over men in the church. If you disagree with that, then you are in rebellion against Gods word.
@@Steve_T14 Look at it this way, there are 2 sons of Israel having a hypothetical discussion during the time of Shamgar the son of Anath (Judges 3). One states that there was no possibility that God would ever send a woman to be a Judge over Israel. He states his invalid argument to the other man. We know his argument was invalid because the next Judge was a woman, that is, Deborah. What is the valid argument put forward by the man that believed that God could indeed send a woman as a Judge? If you don't know that argument then you're missing something. Keep in mind that the Judge was the primary pastor/shepherd of God's people during this time period. A Judge could judge homicide cases. A Judge could teach from the Law, that is, scripture, when giving a verdict. The above paragraph is indeed valid. I wrote an informal free essay on Deborah and am very familiar with her story.
Stop it lol,the Bible specifically says who can be a pastor/elder/minister Also God says the man/woman relationship. How can a man be the head at home but then be the tail at church?
When a preacher in a Restoration Movement congregation reached the passage in John where Jesus turned the water into wine, he began to do some verbal gymnastics to shape the text to fit what he believed. Likewise, the street preacher is performing some verbal gymnastics to shape Paul's writings to fit his belief system, which has obviously been shaped by political correctness and modern ideology.
Lots of talking, lots of avoiding simple truth. I Tim. 2:11-12 forbids women to teach because {13) Adam was formed first (was made to be leader). and (14) Adam was not the one deceived (confused by deception). Long and loud talking does not compensate for false teaching.
synagogues also had, and some still do, the Mechitzah: Separate Seating in the Synagogue. This means men sat on one side, and women/wives sat on the other side, so there would have been some interruptions of wives calling out to their husbands for clarification. Women in the church - th-cam.com/video/oaeW_JB3c5g/w-d-xo.html It comes down to this, you don't just let any woman, nor any man for that matter, preach and teach, without first knowing them and their walk in Christ. For there is no Jew nor Greek in Christ, we are all one - paraphrased.
@@Darren777Au don't need to go to multiple synagogues to know woman shouldn't lead. I have Scripture. Did you have to go to Jerusalem to know Jesus died on the cross??
Agree to disagree agreeably. Genesis 3:16-19, to Eve: multiplying thy 0:14 sorrow & thy conception, & Adam: cursed is the ground for thy sake, in sorrow thou shall eat all the days of thy life, thorns & thistles, sweat of thy face, dust to dust. God created Adam (& Eve) for an Eternal Life. Only after Adam ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil were they both cursed to die. God deals with all of us with "blessing & cursing". It's the Law that brings us to the understanding of how wretched we are. We were not born in the Image of God, but in the image of Adam, fallen mankind. Genesis 1:26, Let Us make man (singular/Adam) not men in our image after likeness. All mankind after that was born in the image of fallen man, Adam. That's why we must be Born Again, John 3:1-7. Until we accept Yeshua Hamashiach/Jesus the Messiah, as Lord & Savior, we're headed for the Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:11-15. CYH
Spiritual authority of man & woman in the Beginning. Eve was deceived, Adam was not. He disobeyed God, & hearkened to his wife, instead of his Creator, YHWH/God. It goes back to Genesis. I'm not saying God never uses (speaks through) women, but in the order we're to use when we "assemble" together, 1 Corinthians 14:26-40, there are specific instructions. Modern, Western, Christianity, has abandoned God's commands & instead had incorporated man's traditions. CYH
A 'church' in those early days meant a group of Believers meeting in a house or private place; not a building or organization like we see it these days.
Thank you. I was preaching similar things like in the old days ladies were new to the church... chatting away to guys while others were reading the Word of God which was disrespectful and still is disrespectful. So remaining silent would be the best.
It isn't just Paul's letter to Timothy, it's all in his letter to Titus. And it's not only Paul, Peter also brings up this subject. And the reason women aren't God's chosen for the leading of believers (except to teaching the women) is as explained and revealed in 1 Corinthians ch11.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting. If your beliefs can't explain this, they must be false. Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
@Szpak-123 what the bible says needs to be read and understood as ONE Gospel of Christ (Romans ch1) to us. You cannot discount FOUR very clear New Covenant verses on the basis of presumption, nor without checking and acknowledging the context! In the bible when the men whom God appointed as leaders refused to do so, of course, God then raised up a woman; that's HIS prerogative. But to CHANGE His teaching to us based on our weakness and stubbornness to obey Him is unwise. Deborah was a judge in Israel because no men stepped forward. The proof of this fact can be seen by the response of Barak. She told him to go and conquer, and he said to her that he wouldn't go unless Deborah was with him; he refused to obey God and take the LEAD! Therefore Deborah said because he'd not risen yo the challenge in the way God wanted him to, the credit for victory over the enemy would be given to a woman. This is not doctrine, it is historic events showing a consequence for not doing it God's way. Clearly, of four new testament DOCTRINAL teaching won't convince you to submit to the Scriptures, I cannot imaging you would agree with what I've said, since I've only echoed the words of doctrine in Scripture.
@@thebible-ourpointofreferen9102 (Not the essay below. But I suggest you request it to be posted.) Were Deborah AND Barak Judges? Was Barak a Judge? Was Deborah a Judge? And when the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge and saved them from the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the Lord was moved to pity by their groaning because of those who tormented and oppressed them. -excerpt Judges 2 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel went up to her for judgment. -excerpt Judges 4 The peasantry came to an end, they came to an end in Israel, Until I, Deborah, arose, Until I arose, a mother in Israel. -excerpt Judges 5 Tola and Jair were also Judges. ..., rose up to save Israel... Now after Abimelech died, Tola the son of Puah, the son of Dodo, a man of Issachar, rose up to save Israel; and he lived in Shamir in the hill country of Ephraim. He judged Israel for twenty-three years. Then he died and was buried in Shamir. ...rose up and judged Israel... After him, Jair the Gileadite rose up and judged Israel for twenty-two years. And he had thirty sons who rode on thirty donkeys, and they had thirty cities in the land of Gilead that are called Havvoth-jair to this day. And Jair died and was buried in Kamon. -excerpt Judges 10 The same phrasing is used regarding Deborah, Tola and Jair. They were all Judges. Deborah: Until I, Deborah, arose, Until I arose... Tola: "...rose up..." Jair: "...rose up..."
Barak is never referred to as a Judge. He was commander of the army. Deborah was the Judge over Israel at this time. She knew it, and so did Barak. Now she sent word and summoned Barak... -excerpt Judges 4 (above) Deborah summoning Barak. She gave the order for the battle to begin that Israel won. Then Deborah said to Barak, “Arise! For this is the day on which the Lord has handed Sisera over to you... -excerpt Judges 4 (above) Deborah ordering Barak. CONCLUSION Deborah was a Judge. Barak was not a Judge.
@@thebible-ourpointofreferen9102 you wrote: Deborah was a judge in Israel because no men stepped forward. Nothing in Judges 4 or 5 about that. Also, the Judges were chosen by God. They weren't put in place by the people, nor could someone just decide they wanted to be the Judge over Israel. And when the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge... -excerpt Judges 2 Paul's teachings on a number of subjects are all over the place. He was greatly influenced by his culture as well.
Well . To my knowledge... We know in the end we all will find out, women can prophesy and pray for , but to become a pastor over was not the plan , because it would go against the original order of Man over woman...
@@sumayaali1756 That part is wrong but the previous parts are correct. I am pretty sure he was misremembering: 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
@rlhicks1 since came into the world because of Adam. Christ came for redemption. What if Adam hadn't eaten that fruit? Don't you think that they would be on different spiritual levels? They are equally sinners
³But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. ⁷For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.
Hi, I saw a lot of your comments on this video and I just want to ask. I agree Jesus is head of the church, Adam is head over Eve and every husband over his wife. And we know what happened when roles got perverted and Adam listened to his wife. And that's the law of first mention I guess. That part I agree fully with. So my question is I am single, and for every other single woman and mother, is it okay for them to teach and preach to their kids (both girls and boys and unmarried older gents) and other women?? Should women never preach period or should women never preach to a man??
I am guessing I am asking what do I do with the revelations and all the wisdom I am learning from reading the Bible?? Please help make it practical for me
@zinhlemkhize2332 The Bible teaches that women can not teach if she is in a position to exercise authority over a man. Yes, she can teach other women and children. A wife can teach along side her husband. Here are several biblical examples of women teaching women and children. Exodus 15:20,21 - Moses' sister Miriam led the women of Israel in praising God. Proverbs 1:8 - A son should hear his father's instruction and not forsake his mother's law. Luke 1:39-56 - Elisabeth and Mary admonished and encouraged one another praising God. 2 Timothy 1:5 - From childhood Timothy had been taught the sacred Scriptures (3:15). The faith he possessed clearly came through his grandmother Lois and mother Eunice. Titus 2:3-5 - Older women are commanded to teach younger women. Note that Christian women are not only permitted to teach, they are commanded to do so! God's word does limit women's role, but to deny that women have a role in teaching in some capacity of God's word, would be to completely contradict Scripture. It just can't be done in a way that exercises authority over a man! Feel free to ask questions, I'll always give you a biblical answer!
@@passportreadyvibes4131 Okay thanks, I am so glad. I have always heard arguments, never really got a clear practical Biblical explanation. I appreciate it. Okay I have another question, since you've been so kind. I was listening to a podcast and the guests are sharing their testimony on how they stopped using profanity after they read about the third time Peter denied Jesus. Matthew 26:74 NIV [74] Then he began to call down curses, and he swore to them, “I don’t know the man!” Immediately a rooster crowed. The comment section was a mess. One side is like oh no the Scripture was taken out of context, or according to the original text in Greek it means something different so all this is wrong. The other side is like what does it matter when it produced the results?? I thought that was interesting, I agree, even on the NIV if you read it slow you get it in English. But I assume if you're already convicted of your sin it might make you quick to wrongly divide the Word. What is your take on that?? For me it comes down to this, wrongly dividing the Word is false doctrine, but maybe the Holy Spirit can redeem that. As in this case, but obviously not a method we should apply everywhere, that's how we have Pastors living in sin and justifying it.
Thank you for this!!! Someone who can interpret this passage correctly and in context!! There are several denominations out there spreading false teachings concerning this.
The first person to preach the gospel was a woman. What is the gospel of Jesus Christ it is the good news that He has risen and has been resurrected by our heavenly Father. A woman was the first person to tell the disciples
Actually the first to preach the gospel was Jesus Christ and also there’s another to preach and it’s another for a woman to take leadership as a Pastor for there are requirements in scriptures like 1️⃣ Timothy 3.
False, she witnessed, or testified. She was not a preacher or teacher. I believe the Apostle Paul had more authority than you. Teaching and preaching is authority. Women are not to have authority over men. I know you read the verses, but we can bring them up if you need to. If you want to talk about Deborah, that's fine too. But God's word is flawless. He does not contradict Himself. The scripture directly says Women are not to teach or have authority over men. You can testify, share your faith, and the like. Even then, you are to be silent in the church. Unless teaching other women, or children. You read the Bible, I know you do.
Whether or not a woman should preach should probably be left between the woman and God. I know personally since I was born again, there have been many scriptures I misunderstood and issues I promoted that drove people away from the Kingdom of God. Not sin issues of course, but issues of religiosity, so to speak. I’ve grown in the LORD and have learned that we misunderstand many things. So whether a woman should preach, I don’t know. But I do know that Deborah was a judge and she absolutely exercised authority over the men of Israel in that position, but God was over her. In fact, the commander Barak refused to go up against the Canaanites unless she went with them. Also, Esther led Israel in a fast. And scripture also says, in Acts 10:34 and Romans 2:11 that God does not show partiality and that partiality is a sin (James 2:9). Galatians 3:28 says there is no difference between Jews and Greeks, and male and female. Hebrews 13:8 says Jesus Christ [is] the same yesterday, today, and forever. And Malachi 3:6 says, “I am the LORD, I do not change”. So, if this is true, (and Numbers 23:19, says God is not a man that He should lie), then if God used a woman in a position such as Deborah before, He could most certainly do so again. Additionally after the entire discourse regarding head coverings, verse 15 tells us it’s about having long hair. 1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for [her] hair is given to her for a covering. But in any case, I haven’t been called to preach, but I’ve learned it’s a dangerous thing to presuppose to know what God’s will is for other people. Be blessed in JESUS CHRIST!
3muz, The issue should be left to God, and from Genesis chapter 1, all through the bible, God has established an order of Authority within the Trinity, within the family and within the church. Eve was made from Adam, to be a helper for him and Adam was given authority over her. 1 Timothy 2:11-12 “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.” This verse applies to how things are to be done in the church. Women can still pray and they can have authority over other women or children, but not men in the church. In 1 Corinthians 11:1-3 Paul says, “Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” This is the exact same structure of leadership that was initiated in the book of Genesis! God gave authority to the first man, over the first woman.
@@buckbuchanan4902 Okay, in Timothy Paul, said he didn't permit women to teach and have authority over men, but does God permit? This is the real question
@@ArrozAmarelado bingo.. at last someone asked the correct question, and the answer to that is "Yes!". Because according to Jesus we are all equal. And according to Paul himself, we are to only accept any doctrine if it only aligns with what Jesus has preached. And Jesus very clearly preached that we should not commit anymore vows towards God even. Yet Paul did not know this. Hence even in the book of Acts we see him fulfilling vows by shaving his head and circumcising Timothy to appease the Jews cos of them still holding onto Mosaic law, even though it had been clearly fulfilled by Jesus in every form. Yet this lack of knowledge in fact is the very base Paul uses to stop women not just from preaching, but even holding any lesser position in a church like being a warden unless they are old widows, cos he views a dedication or desire to serve God as a lifetime vow and points towards the old testament and a Mosaic law that exists where a woman is meant to uphold any vow she makes towards God unless her husband or father disagrees to it. Which then would essentially prohibit a woman from completing her duties successfully if she is married and is simultaneously an active member of the church. Yet we see Jesus teaching us to love God even more than our parents and be willing to forsake them too for the kingdom of God which is again something Paul probably didn't know at least during the time of writing those letters. So once again, God clearly allows anyone who wants to serve him to serve him, irregardless of their gender, nationality or past.
At the time Paul wrote this letter to the Corinthian church there was a temple of Diana across the bay from this church, the prophetess of Diana would come over and interrupt the meetings, so Paul said to stop them. History, content, location….
I have heard this same story and this story is a story from modern, progressive churches tell to bend the Scriptures to allow women to preach. I reject this notion completely. God inspired Paul to write these verses and God does not make mistakes nor God's Word never changes, yesterday, today nor tomorrow.
@@richardallison8745 True, God doesn't make mistakes. Men just can't read properly. We're talking about 1 Cor 14. Paul speaks first of what he's heard they are doing, then he corrects them, from the very beginning of 1 Cor. When he gets to chapter 14, he does the same. He first speaks about how they are conducting themselves in Church meetings, then he corrects them. Verses 34, and 35, should give you a heads up. Especially 34. When did Paul ever teach the Law after conversion? 34) "Let your women keep silence in the Churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but, (and the next words are in italics which means man added them so the text made sense) (they are commanded) to be under obedience, as also sayeth the Law." "And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the Church." I love verse 36. Maybe you can't see the sarcasm in what he is saying (maybe you're biased), but, he says, "What? (say it to yourself sarcastically), came the Word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?" Then in verse 37 he says, "If any man THINK himself to be a PROPHET, or SPIRITUAL, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." Then 38) "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 39) "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues." 40) "Let all things be done decently and in order." I pray you are not ignorant.
@@rogerrabbit5014 yet there is no mention of this in scripture. Adding to God's word and your name shall be removed from the book of life. Revelation 22
@@richardallison8745I agree that God is the same yesterday, today and forever! Deborah was a judge in the Old Testament; and He also used many women to prophesy in the Old and the New Testament! I surely respect your opinion on the stance you take on who should be able to have leadership roles in the church...and I don't believe that it's a salvational issue; and it's certainly not worth promoting division between members of the body of Christ! But I agree with Cliffe on his point about allowing women doing whatever God has called them to do! God bless you and yours!
63,000 connections in the Bible, he was preaching in the church of Timothy at that time. People were worshiping false woman gods etc..:: you gotta read multiple texts to understand that meaning.
He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with Him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And when they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe. So she went and told the disciples he was alive and you have concluded that she preached. Again, according to your definition you provided...she herald the message... simply put... she delivered the news.
You're going beyond what is written. Mary saw Jesus was gone and told others, and she's a woman, therefore, that negates the clear teachings regarding the office of church elders and deacons must be men. Elders, pastors, bishops, shepherds, overseers, are all different ways of saying elder.
@@JV-jq4dt My question is: what differentiates witnessing from preaching? So we are allowed to witness as women, but not allowed to preach? If I say the same words in a church building, then it's considered preaching, but if I'm on the streets, it's merely witnessing or what exactly. All of these distinctions make no sense to me. As the daughter of a staunch and devout ex-Muslim mother who was minding her own business, she got saved and anointed, without any intention to preach. I'm puzzled by these interpretations. A few months after her conversion, she led a die-hard atheist to Christ. This individual witnessed her praying for a neighbour's dying child, who subsequently survived. Yet, despite these experiences, we're told that Paul said not to teach men or usurp authority, which is now interpreted as "Oh, you can't preach in a church." Christians need to study the Scriptures more thoroughly and interpret them through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The term "teach" was used in line with "usurping authority." It was an issue of order, not a matter of calling. Just like when I correct my younger siblings and say so you want to teach me right instead of listening. So, the same God who pours out His Spirit on both men and women is now said to prohibit women from preaching? If my mother is invited to a women's conference to share her story, should she remain silent simply because some men accompanied their wives?
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting. Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
@ Last time I checked, judging and preaching were two different things. The scriptures CLEARLY give the qualifications for a bishop/pastor. You can’t argue scripture.
@ Sharing the gospel, and preaching are two different things. According to 1 Timothy 3:2-5, It is a mans duty. The fact that people are willing to overlook or disregard what the Word of God says, shows how backwards we’ve become, not only in scripture, but in the way live as well. No matter how you twist it, a CIRCLE will never fit into a SQUARE.
@@bsean1179 The gospel is a teaching. The first and most important of all. If a woman can teach a man the gospel, she can teach all the lesser teachings to men. This is logic. Even in the teaching/preaching of the gospel, a man may ask a woman about something scriptural/spiritual. So if the man asks about the so-called 7 deadly sins, she can't say a word? If indeed she can speak to him about this as an unsaved man, then she can't once he becomes saved? When all this becomes about gender, instead of the Holy Spirit, there is confusion.
Yes, Cliff is correct. The Bible is clear, as you see it, your interpretation, because the Lord NEVER FORBADE a woman to teach. It was customary of that day and time for women not to speak out in public. And it was Paul who checked these women that were causing a ruckus in public that caused a disturbance to the men that were gathering to learn because man was the authority in the home.
The Bible is very clear. Paul does not mention education or cultural times but the order of creation. Women are not to hold the office of pastor/elder or to have authority over a man. I have seen too many marriages where the woman is usurping her husband's authority and its a disaster.
Paul came along, heavily influenced by his culture and wrote: But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man... People already knew this was just fine in God's sight, and was settled centuries earlier with Deborah. They knew that God didn't care that Eve sinned in the Garden, else there would be a gender-qualification regarding being called to be a Judge.
Before I interpret, I first obey. First obey, then get down to the questions.. The Christian Faith is an army, not a courtroom where lawyers drag truth in to kill it the death of a thousand qualifications
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If you are truly baptized in the Holy Spirit Like the women that were at Pentecost, you can preach and lead a church. The Holy Spirit confirms who can be used for his work, no man can! The spirit will bear witness with other spirit filled believers.
Cliff, that is false doctrine and you know it. You have no scripture to support what you said. Paul was very direct and very consistent in what he said. Imagine looking for context when we talk about adultery, lying, etc. The bible is very direct about these things.
But we choose not to follow all the old testament teachings. I think Paul's letters in particular make the most sense when we consider who they were written for. Yes we can learn from these but If you consider how Jesus dealt with women we get a true picture. One of the woman preached at Pentecost.
@@donczns Yes we can look at different references in the bible to support our beliefs. Its always a matter of choice. Some believe drinking alcohol is okay. So to each his own, but let us not misrepresent what Paul said and come up with stories that are not supported by Scripture in the way Mr Cliff just did. P.S. We don't ignore all of the old testament teachings. If fact the Old testament is referenced a lot in the New testament. I am assuming your point is with regard to the Law? Well Paul clearly states we are no longer under the Law Romans 7:1 - 6. Jesus has fulfilled the law.
Read the translation of the gospel of Phillip, which was found in the Dead Sea scrolls. It does not appear in the standard Bible because it shows that both Peter and Paul are Misogynists who were determined to remove the Magdalen from their version of the biblical record. it also records that Peter and Paul were very jealous of the close relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalen. Especially when Jesus revealed more of his teachings to her than to them.
if Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and all in Christ are equal, then a man has no more authority than a woman to speak on these matters. Perhaps in the physical churches, and perhaps between those who are in Christ and those who are not, but in the spiritual body of Christ, all are equal. There is no man that comes between God and his offspring otherwise that would completely change the dynamic and thus the entire gospel. PS the New Testament is not the Old Testament.
You are wrong. Read 1 Corinthians 13 and 1 Timothy 3. God inspired Paul to write what he wrote. You need to argue with God if you don't like what is in Scripture. There are other verses and chapters that support what I say. The modern church is teaching false doctrine. The only thing I agree with you is the Old Testament was fulfilled and we are not under the Old Law any more. Lately I have been visiting some other churches and in my 70 years, I am aghast on false doctrine Pastors are preaching. The Seminaries are influenced today by demonic doctrines. Remember, God's words have not changed in the past, today or in the future. Nothing has changed except feminism has infiltrated the Church.
@@richardallison8745I’d argue that “feminism” is not the only thing that has infiltrated the so called churches. To say that is blatantly misogynistic. There are churches that teach women to be silent, submissive, etc., and still teach false doctrine. Some so called churches, fully ran and led by MEN, say Jesus is God, some say He is not, for example. They can’t all be right, now can they?
@@richardallison8745 “feminism” is not the only thing that has infiltrated the Church. To suggest otherwise is blatantly misogynistic and not sound doctrine, either. There are countless so called churches where women are taught to be submissive and silent, fully ran and led by MEN, that teach Jesus is God while others teach that He is not, for example. Now, they can’t all be right, can they?
Equality, order and leadership aren't the same. A woman isn't permitted to have leadership and authority over men in the church, and clear reasons were given by Paul the Apostle going all the way back to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. You are free to choose to accept or reject it, but the Word of God on the matter has been made available.
KJV: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." RSV: "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent." GNB: "I do not allow them to teach or to have authority over men; they must keep quiet."
YOUR HEAD IS COVERED WHEN YOUR A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO IS YOUR HEAD,AND IN THE BODY OF CHRIST THERE ARE JUST PEOPLE ONLY NO GENDER COLOR RELIGION ALL IN THE BODY OF CHRIST BELIEVERS CAN SPEAK OF WHO THEY BELIEVE IN IF THEY ARE SILENT WHAT THEIR SAYING IS IN THEIR SILENCE 🔕 IS THEY DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE NOT MIND READERS❤
Well said - The new testament has women Prophetesses, Evangelists, Elders, Etc.. The whole Bible must be taken into consideration when making a sweeping statement out of a single passage.
No, only the New Testament needs to be considered since there was no local net testament church in the Old Testament. There were no female church elders or pastors and a prophetess and evangelist are not church leaders.
Another example of using Scripture to bend and make it say something that it does not say. Paul wrote about women and their place in the church and in 1 Tim 3, there are only two positions in the church, Bishop which is Pastor and Deacon. Both positions require a man with only one wife. If you all don't like it, then take it up with God.
@@charlesdarmanin8763 Why do I need to see this video when I can read the Bible myself. That is a problem that people think there is more to the Scriptures and I need to hear man or man-made movies to understand Scripture. Man messes everything up and twists Scripture to make it say what sinful man wants. I don't need to see a video to know what the Scripture says. I pray to the Holy Spirit for context and understanding of the Word.
If you want to treat women as second class citizens then believe what you want, but I’ll choose to treat women as equals like the Bible says. Have a nice day
“God is not the author of Confusion” and “the devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy” so the fact that you are not only trying to bring confusion, you are also trying to steal, kill, and destroy the very message that just proves who your father is; so humble yourself before God and learn the right way before its too late
1 Timothy 2:11-14 “Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” Paul appeals to the creation order in Genesis, emphasizing that Adam was formed before Eve. He also refers to the Fall, noting that Eve was deceived. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 “The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” The reference to “the Law” suggests a broader principle of order and submission rooted in Old Testament teachings. Ephesians 5:22-24 “Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.” While this passage addresses marriage, it is often applied to church leadership as well, suggesting a parallel between family and church structures. The husband’s role as the head is indicative of male leadership in both home and church. Leadership and teaching authority in the church are seen as responsibilities given specifically to men. For example,In the New Testament, the qualifications for elders and overseers (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9) emphasize male leadership.
Part 6 PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE This is sometimes referred to as the deification of a man over a woman in the marriage covenant, which is what Paul supports in this false teaching. This false teaching is serious, and carries over to his false teachings regarding gender in a church setting. Elders must be men, etc. -excerpt of Part 6 (above)
which hell exactly? is eternal torment = lake of fire(second death)? the first questions are rhetorical btw. Anyone know the difference between Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus?
I am aware 1 Timothy 2:11-12 and 1 Corinthians 14:34 says women should be silent, and then Romans 16 commends Phoebe and other women in their ministry and says they are worthy of leadership. I know you can argue, unsuccessfully in my opinion, that a deacon is somehow subordinate, but silent is silent. You cannot perform any ministry silent, even that of deacon. So I interpret Paul's writings as he is judging on merit, not making a generic statement based on gender. In other words, he is saying THESE women should stay silent (because they falsely give phophecy) and THOSE women are worthy of church leadership (because there understanding of scripture is spot on). Remember folks, Paul is not sending a round robin email to reply all. Yes, some teachings have generic application, but where scripture appears to contradict, it might be specific not generic. Paul was writing to specific churches and addressing their individual needs as well as making specific statements. Here is an individual need.
I grew up in a church that taught against women preaching. Reading the Bible Joel 2:28-32 Joel said in the last days your son's and daughters shall prophesy. Acts 2:17. Peter said they aren't drunk this is what Joel spoke about. Look up the word prophecy in the Hebrew 😂
Prophecy, to speak on behalf of God telling a past or future event. Even a direct message such as Nathan did to David. But this is not the same as a preacher. A preacher studies the sermons. He doesn't just hear God's voice. He is called to teach. A prophet doesn't have to do that necessarily. They simply deliver God's word
1) The problem here is that the CONTEXT of 1 Corinthians 11 lets us know that Paul is rooting his argument in culture but in nature. His justification for telling women to be silent in service is the created order, not in culture. 2) We interpret scripture in light of the context of the passage, but also in light of other scripture. In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 Paul likewise says that he does not permit a woman to speak publicly during a worship service, and he again roots his argument in the created order rather than in culture. This confirms that this prohibition is not meant for a specific congregation or for a specific culture, but that it is for all congregations and all cultures as all are subject to the created order.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
@@Szpak-123 A judge was not a teacher or someone who led God's people in worship. A judge was simply someone who applied the law to specific situations, in the same manner that judges do today. Deborah is not equivalent to pastors or church elders. Therefore, your argument doesn't hold water.
@@colina4699 _____________________________________________________ you wrote: A judge was not...someone who led God's people in worship. Then Deborah and Barak the son of Abinoam sang on that day, saying, “For the leaders leading in Israel, For the people volunteering, Bless the Lord! Hear, you kings; listen, you dignitaries! I myself-to the Lord, I myself will sing, I will sing praise to the Lord, the God of Israel! -excerpt Judges 5 _______________________________________________________ Full essay read time: 10 minutes The Judge was the primary/senior pastor/shepherd at that time period. (In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has obvious meaning to the average person.) Major modern English translations like the NASB use the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people... In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way. “My people have become lost sheep; Their shepherds have led them astray. -excerpt Jeremiah 50 For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may check out Ezekiel 34. When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period. But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways. -excerpt Judges 2
@@Szpak-123 1) Deborah and Barak sang a song. There is no evidence that she led the people in a worship service, or that there was anyone other than the two of them in attendance. It was the role of the priests to lead worship, not the role of a judge. 2) Kings were also called shepherds, but the kings were not the religious leaders of Israel, the Priests were. The kings were likewise not the primary teachers of the OT law. They judged according to it, but they were not preaching sermons or holding Bible studies, that was the role of the priests. 3) God gives the sword to the civil government to restrain evil (Genesis 9:6, Romans 13:3-4). When the judges died, the one who wielded the sword to restrain evil died, hence the chaos that resulted upon the death of even corrupt judges like Gideon. Judges were not pastors, they were leaders of the civil government.
@@colina4699 you wrote: 1) Deborah and Barak sang a song. YGTBKM 2) As I wrote: A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture ... [Covered in essay.] 3) Judges were not pastors, they were leaders of the civil government. Then why would it state?: ...when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers,... God ruled Israel through the Judge. Later on the people sinned by rejecting God as King. They wanted men to rule over them as kings, instead of God ruling. [Covered in essay.] ... I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, and since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. -excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verses 9 and 10 KJV -God speaking to Nathan the prophet You can have the last word.
People are so devoted to their favorite denomination they'll choose their opinions over what scripture plainly says, ALL of it! They'll be glued to one verse- and TOTALLY ignore any other that doesn't fit their denominational opinion!
The Bible gives a very clear requirements for one to be a Preacher ! One of those is : HE (not she) must be then HUSBAND of one wife. Also he says that women should not usurp authority over a man.
1 Timothy 3:1 KJV This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. In the next chapter, He’s speaking of the requirement of a bishop ( a pastor). He must be a HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, we know very well a woman can’t have a wife, meaning the office is reserved for a man.
1 Timothy 2:11-12 “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.”
That is very straight forward and simple. Paul is teaching this principle to Timothy, and it is not only for certain cultures or churches, it’s for all. Just as their is an authority structure in the Tri-une Godhead, so there is an authority structure in the family and the church.
In 1 Corinthians 11:1-3 Paul says, “Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”
This is the exact same structure of leadership that was initiated in the book of Genesis! God gave authority to the first man, over the first woman.
So here is the logic from scripture: Jesus had a different role than the Father. He submitted himself to the headship of the Father. He was equal in value to the Father. On the same note. Women have a different role than men. They should submit to the headship of men. They are equal in value to men.
Women are not inferior to men or lesser than men and should not be treated as such. Their capability, intelligence, giftings or skills are not the reason for this and are not lesser because of this.
Just as God chose the Jews as His people, so He chose man to have authority over his wife and the church. But the Bible is clear that a man should love his wife and put her needs before his own.
Both men and women should willingly submit themselves to the leadership structure God has established. To not do that is to sin against the Lord.
Yeah because ignorant racist fools interpret the bible the best was
Embarrassingly sexist behavior
That's complicated because in Jesus case it is because of the way He is born, not omnscient, omnipresent and omnipotent like the Father, He gets His Holiness and power from the Father. And in the jews case, if another type of race or ethnicity would come to devote to God, would they prohibited to do it?
Why is it so that women can't teach a man?
Paul was indoctrinated in the system of women and men of his time, that's why he talked about how shameful it is for a man to have long hair and how shameful it is for a woman to not wear a veil, like, today those things are completely normal.
Imagine His surprise if he grasped the idea of female presidents and queens having authority over men
He does not permit it, but does God permit a woman to teach and to have authority?
This is in context!!!
Let the Bible speak for itself and not what Cliffe Knechtle had thought of what St. Paul had meant... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
What he said is :D
@Killasin360 He might be entitled to his own OPINION... but not with the Biblical TRUTH...
My question, then, is, what did Paul mean when he said, "...as the law says."? Paul mentions “the law,” yet no Old Testament law, Talmudic law, or Mishna law mandating women remain silent exists. Does this align with Paul’s usual high regard for the Law? Could Paul be referencing Pharisaical traditions? This seems unlikely since no Jewish law or tradition enforces women’s silence in church.
@@DavidHarrisondavidoharrison Christ Jesus changed the name of SAUL into PAUL... which means his BELIEF (Heart, Mind, Soul, Strength) was also changed...
St. Paul said/wrote, "When the PRIESTHOOD (Levitical) was changed, there was a necessity to change the LAW (Moses/Mosaic) as well." ... (ref. Hebrews 7:12)...
Facts and Truth of the Matters, Biblically and Logically speaking... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
@jvlp2046
*Women aren't authorized to be preachers by GOD, the Priesthood which started with Melchizedek to Aaron which leads to Christ as Hight Priest in Heaven has no women in it, Christianity doesn't change that. Just Stop With The Spirit Of Eve Nonsense Already!*
As a woman, i am REQUIRED by God to be a teacher of women and chikdren and people younger than i. And spread the gospel to everyone and be a watchman. Jesus is King!
@@roselynn816 Then how do you explain that both Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos, an adult man with Paul's approval?
The gospel is a teaching. The first and most important of all. If a woman can teach a man the gospel, she can teach all the lesser teachings to men. This is logic.
Even in the teaching/preaching of the gospel, a man may ask a woman
about something scriptural/spiritual. So if the man asks about the so-called
7 deadly sins, she can't say a word? If indeed she can speak to him about this
as an unsaved man, then she can't once he becomes saved?
When all this becomes about gender, instead of the Holy
Spirit, there is confusion.
@@Szpak-123 Preach
@jamesdaniel1376 first of all.. we don't know exactly what that meant and how they interacted with Apollos.. Can't verify or oppose a doctrine based on a story with a passing comment. 2nd, this was not a church setting. They took him aside privately and the wife being submitted to her husband can offer her wisdom on such topics. She was not in authority over Apollos, she was submitted to her husband as "they" showed him more clarity. This hardly proves women teaching in church.
@@PBAdventures146
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
If your beliefs can't explain all this, they must be false.
Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
It is crystal clear, it is a simple answer....how many women did Jesus Christ choose to be Apostles.
I bet MANY, but the bible doesn't mention them because that culture was sexist.
@@jeffconnolly1641 we have no way of knowing since the men who wrote the stories had rhetorical goals that included promoting patriarchy.
@@WhatInTheWorldSJWe have a way of knowing cuz it’s clear in the Bible…
@@TimeIsOver-333 It's clear in which bible? Which translation? Which ones from over the years? So clear that people can't agree about basic details. It's more clear that the Paul that wrote 1 Corinthian is not the person who wrote Timothy.
@ Stop justifying your ways…God will surely bring this to judgment. Men and woman clearly have different roles. He has a certain order of things. You need to repent.
I have boundless respect for Cliff. He is on the front lines all the time. However, he is culturally driven in this stance. The Bible is crystal clear that women are not to be elders/deacons or preach from the pulpit. In a practical way, this is one of many factors that has killed the Episcopal, Presbyterian, and Methodist mainline denominations. And, that breaks my heart as I was born into and raised up in and accepted Christ in the Episcopal Church.
Agreed. Mike Winger did a deep dive on women in the church and the result was more than 12 hours of video. Cliff is telling them what tickles their ears.
@buckyoung4578: I agree. Women should not have the titles "pastor," "elder," or "decon/deconess." They can teach younger children, just not be ordained. 😊
The problem is with people chasing titles. I divorced my former spouse because she had multiple affairs and I am currently happily single. That does not mean that I cannot share the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and lead people to the Lord (Romans 10:9-10) and disciple them. I don't care about an earthly title, other than being a "fisher of men". Women can do the same for women as well within the flock, and they can share the Gospel. Buck, I pray that you don't let it break your heart as we are told in Scripture that we will see a great falling away. We are seeing this happen in real time with people falling away from what is written in Scriptures, chasing titles, pastors succumbing to scandal and greed, etc. It is sad, but we are to stand firm in the Gospel, share it far and wide, and love our neighbor as ourselves.
@@andrewmarshall7569
Anybody can share the gospel but not anyone can lead a congregation.
@@rickdavis2235 I 100% agree with you, but one person leading the congregation was never the way it was meant to be. The elder was never meant to be the only one who taught. scripture is very clear, though, that an elder can only be a married man, and there are other qualifications as well that are very specific, as I’m sure you’re aware
Pastor Cliff is a very talented speaker. very intelligent and has the God given gift of speaking. God bless you ministery.
That maybe true, but he is wrong on this, and many churches have women in leadership and have become politically correct in order not to offend them, because church is 80 percent women attended in America. It's sad that Americans have fallen out of favor of Jesus 😢😢😢
Cursed is the one whose trust is in man.... Jer 17:5-6. Refer also Isa 2:22.
Notes:
1. Context.
2. Literary style.
3. Interpretation.
Sad
@@shotstanton4666
Text seams to mean NOTHING!
@@bernhardbauer5301 I recommend MZTV on youtube
@@shotstanton4666 I don’t know what you mean by that, but that is what Cliff talked about when we examine any piece of scripture. Context is always key.
Learning is sad, @@shotstanton4666 .?
I agree context is necessary to read Scripture but I reject your interpretation or context on women preaching. Context in 1 Timothy 2:10-15 reads in context Paul is very clear. Churches that have Co-Pastors also violate what Paul said. Also, in 1 Timothy 3, the entire chapter has only two offices in the church, Bishop and Deacon. In context, Bishop is likely a Pastor and Deacon, a Deacon or someone that takes care of the Church when the Pastor/Bishop is absent. Both offices are for a man being good husbands with an obedient family and a good reputation. I don't see wife as a Bishop being a good wife for her husband and an obedient family. Many churches headed by a woman or those who have Co-Pastors where the wife is a Pastor because of her marriage to him is all in error and in my view sinful and rebellious to the Scripture because it twists Scripture to fit the wants of sinful man and wife. I agree to disagree about this and I don't attend churches that have women over the leadership in the Church except over the women in the Church.
Paul had a minimum of two serious false teachings
Paul believed he was a spiritual 'father' that gave birth to Christians.
Paul taught that certain men were deified.
There is no reason to blindly accept his teachings about Christian
women in ministry.
(Each of the above is addressed by me. Reply if there is interest.)
Be careful of the teachings of Paul. Only accept the valid ones.
@@Szpak-123 Paul was certainly sinful and fallible. The Bible says the Scriptures were written by man but the Holy Ghost inspired what these men wrote. These are God's Words and Jesus taught from the Old Testament and they are infallible. Either you believe the Bible as written by God entirely or reject it entirely. This doctrine comes from sinful modern churches. That is all I have to say on the matter.
@@richardallison8745
I've been a Christian a long time. I used to just accept everything
by Paul, but those days are long gone.
Top suggestions if any reader should wish a study:
Part 10 The most serious false teaching of Paul.
Part 6 Another serious false teaching of Paul
(This entire informal essay is too long to be pasted
up all at once.)
TABLE OF CONTENTS OF:
PAUL
HIS FALSE, CONTRADICTORY, AND CONFUSING TEACHINGS
-S. Szpak
INTRODUCTION
Part 1 PAUL'S CONVERSION STORY
Part 2 PAUL INSTRUCTS/ORDERS TIMOTHY TO BE CIRCUMCISED
Part 3 PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY
Part 4 PAUL STATES IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS
AS LONG AS NO ONE SEES YOU DOING SO
Part 5 PAUL SEEMS TO ALTER HIS BELIEFS AND WHATEVER ELSE IS
NECESSARY FOR THE "SAKE OF THE GOSPEL".
Part 6 PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE
Part 7 PAUL'S SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE IS WEAK
Part 8 PAUL WRITES OF HEARING DIVISIONS WITHIN THE CHURCH
AND HOW THIS WAS NOT PROPER AND SHOULD STOP
YET STATES THAT CHRISTAINS SHOULD FOLLOW PAUL
Part 9 PAUL WAS OK WITH THE UNSAVED PREACHING THE GOSPEL
Part 10 PAUL REFERS TO HIMSELF AS A SPIRITUAL FATHER
THE MOST SERIOUS FALSE TEACHING OF PAUL
Part 11 PAUL STATES THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT
Part 12 PAUL IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING ELDERS.
THEREFORE HE IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING
SHEPHERDS/PASTORS.
PART 13 PAUL'S FALSE BELIEF THAT THE RETURN OF JESUS WOULD TAKE
PLACE WITHIN A HUMAN LIFETIME RESULTS IN HIM TEACHING
AGAINST MARITAL SEX AND NORMAL EMOTIONS
PART 14 PAUL STATES THAT HE IS A PERFECT CHRISTIAN
Part 15 PAUL TEACHES THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HIERARCHICAL
CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS
@@Szpak-123 Instead of following something you read or heard outside the Scriptures, why don't you pray for the Holy Spirit to interpret or help you to understand what the Word says instead of hearing from a sinful man. Man tends to mess things up and praying for understanding that the Holy Spirit is paramount over everything. Trust God and not books or videos. Scripture was twisted to convince man that women pastors are okay and that Paul is in error. I don't have the faith in believing something that is not in the Bible and I don't trust any man over what the Comforter (Holy Spirit) teaches.
@@richardallison8745
Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman
can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really.
I suggest my free scripturally-based essay on Deborah.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
If your beliefs can't explain all this, they must be false.
Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
It's amazing how when it comes to the passage discussed in this video, everyone says, "It's simple and straightforward!" But when it comes to other scriptures, interpretation is needed.
Why is it that you have women who are prophets, deacons, one as a judge, etc., in leadership positions and none of that is talked about or applies to now, but when it comes to this one passage of scripture, it applies for all time?
Because people are close minded. Even Paul urged people to compare any religious teaching with the foundational teachings of Jesus, and then only to accept. But sadly people have made Paul the foundation and Jesus the bricks.
However Jesus never preached any of the patriarchal things which Paul did, in fact he preached the opposite and called everyone as being equal now through him.
Yet Paul obviously didn't know this, and is the reason even he points to Mosaic law which shows women as being subservient to men cos any vow a woman makes towards God can be overturned by her husband or father, but the under certain circumstances, the husband then has complete the vow. And due to this and the lack of knowledge of the fact that Jesus himself said not to make anymore vows, Paul continues believing that serving God in any capacity in the church is a vow that must be upheld till death and Hence banns women from holding any form of position in church unless they are old widows. Furthermore we even see proof that Paul didn't know vows shouldn't be made cos he shaves his head cos of vows he had created before in the books of Acts. Yet Christians don't pieace these together cos they've essentially made the Bible into the Quran, as in they view it as the incorruptible word of God when the only true incorruptible word of God is Jesus' Christ and his finished works on the cross that has sealed our path to salvation. Everything else is basically just filler.
It's not in one passage. It is threaded through many scriptures, in multiple books, and tied between both OT and NT.
@@TravisBreheny Tell that to Miriam, Deborah, Phoebe, and other women in the bible.
@@TravisBreheny
Deborah, Judges 4 and 5, else my free
informal essay on her.
@DruPetty42 Paul was specifically talking about the order in churches and the order for which they are to be run. That is when he brought up women not teaching or having authority over men in the Church. I capitalize the C in the last Church because this also refers to His teachings of how God is the head of Christ; Christ the head of men; Men the head of women. Now, in the instance of the wonderful women you listed, those are different roles than preaching. God gives the roles of prophesying, judging, etc to women. However, leading the service in church is not one of the roles given to women which is fine and not in any way repressing of women. If that were the case then it is repressive that God didn’t create man to give birth.
This is mentioned more than once in the Bible. It is crystal clear on this topic that a woman is not to preach. Please research for yourselves .
@@pete836 is it more than once? Outside of the epistles Paul very clearly had nothing to do with?
Where else please
You cannot "research" that which is Spirit; it is called revelation knowledge.
@ which is to say, not knowledge at all. Pretty sure that’s not what it’s called anyway.
@@WhatInTheWorldSJ My original comment is witnessed by Bible scripture (which is the Word of God). I would suggest you read your Bible - specifically, I Corinthians 14.38.
His point is countered by what we are witnessing in the modern church. Every denomination which has accepted women as pastors and elders has ultimately gone completely overboard with the LGBTQetc agenda.
that’s not true at all my friend
Correct
@@jjwwqq give an example of this.
Not everyone but most!
That does not mean a biblically sound female would do that. Plenty of male-led churches have gone down that path, but you don't use that as an excuse to disqualify all men, do you?
When someone says, "what about this part of the Bible, that offends me so how can that be good?". The right answer is always, "well, because you're wicked, so why wouldn't good offend you?".
We ought not ever attempt to make Scripture "palatable" to the appetites of the world.
We should all be offended by scripture everyday, if you don't get offended you have no soul, because we all fall short of his Glory everyday. Thank you Jesus for loving me right where I am at.
The root problem is most people don't understand 2nd Timothy 2:15
15
👉Study👈 to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, 👉rightly dividing👈 the word of truth.
If it contradicts Paul's gospel, it isn't church doctrine.
Y’all clearly don’t understand the scriptures. If she can’t usurp authority over a man then she can’t preach. Simple
You have understanding and knowledge of the Gospel/ Bible !
This topic has been genuinely confusing me for a while. To the best of your ability could you please help me reconcile all of this?
Paul said he doesn't permit women to teach, does that mean he's setting it as a rule or explain to Timothy how he personally ran the church, then also why he mentions how they should prophesy if he was saying that they shouldn't speak. Anothe rthing for me is Priscilla, she was a missionary so she went around with her husband teaching and preaching as a woman and was commended by Paul. Its really confusing to me could you grant me your view on this to help understand how to interpret all of this given the context?
@@Covenant_living Hello🙂. So Apostle Paul spake as he was moved by the holy ghost, set forth tht rule/commandment in the church to tell tht though women can prophecy (telling wat happens in the future by the holy ghost), women cannot preach because in order to be a God sent preacher u must be called, sent, and anointed to preach the gospel, while usurping authority over the people/congregation (teaching comes along as well). Women cannot usurp authority over the man because God said set a man over the congregation, in the beginning it caused all of mankind to suffer due to Eve being deceived, and Adam was formed first later on ruling over his wife. It was told in Titus 2:4 tht the aged woman may teach the younger woman how they ought to be and act. As to Priscilla, she was with her husband while they took in Apollos and helped Paul but she never preached only helped and ministered needs and service to all which they did. Jesus himself never took a woman to send her into the world to preach, he only took men. I do not intend to hurt anyone’s feelings or offend them in any way but the truth is the truth. God bless😇🙏
Usurp means to steal. There’s a difference. Hashtag: PRISCILLA…..and Aquila. Explain THAT. She was a MINISTER 🤔
@@hezekiahwebber4918U never see a plane or tv or cell phone or car in the Bible either. NOT EVEN A PULPIT but here we are.
Just because God didn’t pick women doesn’t mean he doesn’t approve of women in high positions of authority.
More and more men are dying now at a rate never before seen in history so all you will HAVE left ARE women.
God blessed women to be doctors and cops and mayors and firefighters but a woman can’t proclaim God’s word?
More men have pussied out of their God ordained positions (husbands/fathers leaving their families/punks) leaving women to act as both mom AND dad while “DAD” acted like a weak punk and run from his responsibilities.
Miss me with all that.
It never says women can't teach or preach. BUT, authority positions within a church are 100% the man's duty. Sunday school teacher is fine, but I don't personally agree with a woman being a youth pastor or lead pastor (looks intently as Joyce Meyers).
It literally does say that a woman cannot preach.
@@shadowmann9not at all. God gave great gifts to women. There's literally a prophetess in the Bible, and Paul writes that as a major gift. Women have value and they do provide a lot to the kingdom of God through ministry. They are not to be trophies and toys used by their husbands to have children and cook. Hell, people think kids and teens can provide a good message, why not a full-grown woman?
@@A-A-RonDavis2470
Simply because of God's will.
Men:
Ephesians 5:23:
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.
Women:
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
@@bernhardbauer5301you're not even understanding the Scripture that you gave. Everything is God's Will, and that's the most important thing. Man's gifts are also God's Will. Women have a PROFOUND effect on the kingdom of God, especially if they're married. Their purpose is to supplement the husband's purpose. They are a support system, and help cover them spiritually, and are one-half of the reason for their children's prosperity or failure.
Yes, wives submitting to their husbands is submitting to God, but that isn't just bending the knee and being a sx toy and a cook, while raising the children. It's honoring and respecting the authority of the husband in the marriage. Husbands listen to their wives all the time and are blessed because the wives were right. Women a lot of times are also given a gift of discernment, so that they watch for any wolves in sheep's clothing that their husbands aren't aware of. You're downplaying the importance of women not only in Scripture, but in the kingdom of God. Yes, there is a hierarchy of authority, but we're not gonna be neckbeards about it and consider women second-class or slaves.
@@A-A-RonDavis2470 None of that changes the facts. The scriptures say that a woman cannot preach, or lead men. None of what you wrote changes that or has anything to do with Biblical scripture. Nobody said women do not have worth.
That's not even the only time Paul says that. 1 Timothy 2:12
“I believe, help my unbelief.”
Mark 9:24
Wrong about the women in church. Older women are to teach the younger. Not to be in leadership positions. It’s clear. Context Cliff.
Ask HOLY SPIRIT to reveal the truth to you.
@@telishiaking6599had to be a woman thrte are no women in the church leading none
@JuanTorres-777 Acts 16:13-16 recounts the story of the first church in Europe. At Philippi, Paul encountered a group of women praying. One was Lydia, who opened her home to Paul and the new converts. In Phil. 4:3, we learn of two other women in the Philippian church, Euodia and Syntyche, who Paul said, “labored with me in the gospel.”
When Paul arrived in Corinth, Priscilla and Aquila invited him to stay with them until they all relocated to Ephesus some months later. When Paul left Ephesus for his missionary tour, he left Priscilla and Aquila in charge of the church that met in their home.
When Apollos arrived in Ephesus, he was an eloquent believer and teacher, but was uninstructed in some doctrines. Priscilla and Aquila taught him more about the gospel. This remarkable couple are mentioned six times in the New Testament, and most of the time Priscilla is mentioned first (contrary to the culture) suggesting that Paul considered her the leader of the two.
Let’s not forget Phoebe, who Paul mentioned in Romans 16:1 as a “deacon of the church of Cenchrea.” (The Greek word is Diaconos) She carried Paul’s letter to the Romans from Greece - a perilous journey by sea and land. Paul commended her work in the church at Cenchrea.
In I Corinthians 12, Romans 12:6-8 and Eph.4:11 Paul discusses at length the “spiritual gifts” given to the church. Nowhere does Paul say that certain gifts or callings are for men and others for women. All are given by the Spirit to build up the church.
@JuanTorres-777 I can go on and on with scripture. Allow the HOLY SPIRIT the SPIRIT of Truth to enlighten your understanding of the WORD OF the living GOD.
That's an acceptable tradition and I would respect it in your church, but it is not the whole counsel and example of scripture.
I usually ask the Christian in front of me if they believe these are the “last days” bc the scripture is clear about His use of men and women in the last days. I’m not going to argue with people about context when they have no desire to study anything about Corinth at the time of the context or about Gnosticism infiltration into the early church that he was speaking to.
In last days all people are going to be used by God, the men and women
@ yep
Facts men and women will be used!
This guy is really cool . He's like the Mister Rogers of religion .
Hey i like that! I think you're exactly right my friend.
@leeweirick6414 thanks bud . I wish you the best in these darkening days ahead take care
Never thought of it quite like that...
That's hilarious and heartwarming at the same time lol. Makes me like him more.
I think these woman are among the most special woman around the from all walks of existence and colors
I’m not going to listen to all of this It is literally the most simplest thing, but yet again Cliffe has to do this runaround nonsense to get to a simple answer.
The answer is no. Women cannot preach in the church. Or in other words be in position of power like a pastor or father and so on.
Women can share their faith, they can read from the Bible and they can have discussions and debates about scripture in church or anywhere, but they cannot take leadership position in the church.
And you can’t just say “oh that was the custom of the time”. Or “that was just St Paul’s opinion”. No. You are wrong. God was speaking through St Paul. 😊
What do you do with the prophesy of Joel who said, "Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy." ?
@ Being a prophet and being a priest or a bishop in a church are different.
You can have a female prophet who is a member of a congregation. You don't need to have a special position in the church to be a prophet. Although prophets are rare, God can choose anyone for that role, and as I said women can teach the Bible just not from a position of power in the church. So no female priest's.
That doesn't mean women are less in anyway, it just means there is order in the church like there is in a family. God set this order
But they can and they do in many churches, and there's nothing you can do about it!
@ First of don't be coming at me with attitude it wasn't me who set the order of things it was God.
And yeah many modern heretical churches do ignore the word of God, and allow women to be priests because it's all about them and never about God.
And also I don't need to do anything i go to a church that actually loves God and recognises the order that he made. One that doesn’t just cherry pick his words to fit their feelings. So I don't need to do anything, but God will.
God wasn't speaking with Paul all the time. If he was, Paul wouldn't have contradicted Jesus' teachings by making vows and shaving his head or even circumcising Timothy to please the Jews. Truth of the matter is, Paul only knew the foundation of salvation, but he did not know the liberation of people from all the customs. At least not during the time of writing his letters which contrasted between Jesus'teachings and his. However Paul himself tells us to compare any teaching with the foundation which Jesus set and only then to accept it if it aligns. And no where does his patriarchal teachings align. Infact the reason he even points to women being under men is cos he points all the way back to the fall of man and and a Mosaic law that comes cos of it where a woman is ordered to keep her vows which she makes which can yet be overturned by her husband or father. Yet we are explicitly told by Jesus not to make vows and that all of us equal now through him.
Furthermore this lack of understanding of Paul is even the reason he calls widowed church wardens and helpers who have gone and gotten married again and left their post as being held in the grip of the devil cos again he views anyone who takes up posts in church as making a vow to God. And so he says don't let young widows hold even those kinda posts in a church lest they get married again and commit sin.
So believe what you want, but remember, all teachings should build upon Christ, not the other way around as even Paul acknowledged.
🤔
Understood.
Sir, you're a mighty man.
✝️🖐🏾
he avoided the question in a very good roundabout. He is more interested in getting views that telling the truth. Can women preach in church? He avoided that question, why? He has a big following and views are required to monetize on youtube. He is speaking to a crowd not for and to them, but to the video camera and for 82.600 viewers and will speak rational and avoid this question to keep his audience. He also is wrong in how to interpret the passage. He uses the world view of interpretation of context, literary style and interpretation to not offend the scholars and rational skeptics. What he failed to do or to acknowledge is that the bible is not a world created book. He also failed to involve the Holy Spirit action and ability to transform the scriptures from hidden to seen. Be careful of a man who uses rationale and worlds reason, fails to acknowledge God and Holy Spirit and Jesus as the primary movers of truth.
Thank you ! Just what i was thinking
Cliff is an expert at answering questions without giving an actual answer
He did answer the question. Were you not listening?
Apostle Paul has made it Crystal clear on how a woman is to conduct herself in the household of God, the Church! Apostle Paul ties directly into the created order! He said a woman is NOT ALLOWED to TEACH or PREACH or hold authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression...... So if one would still like to argue with this, they're arguing with God's inspired words and one ought not do that!
2nd Timothy 3:16. ❤
Deborah, Judges 4 and 5.
@@Szpak-123it’s hard to take someone like yourself seriously who doesn’t believe the bible is the inerrant infallible authoritative word of God, and then use that same word to argue against other parts of Gods word as if you’ve just dismantled Paul and the unity of the whole bible. Repent brother.
@@Steve_T14
I've been a Christian a long time. I used to just accept everything
by Paul, but those days are long gone.
Top suggestions if any reader should wish a study:
Part 10 The most serious false teaching of Paul.
Part 6 Another serious false teaching of Paul
(This entire informal essay is too long to be pasted
up all at once.)
TABLE OF CONTENTS OF:
PAUL
HIS FALSE, CONTRADICTORY, AND CONFUSING TEACHINGS
-S. Szpak
INTRODUCTION
Part 1 PAUL'S CONVERSION STORY
Part 2 PAUL INSTRUCTS/ORDERS TIMOTHY TO BE CIRCUMCISED
Part 3 PAUL CONTRADICTS HIS OWN TEACHING ON TONGUES AND PROPHECY
Part 4 PAUL STATES IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS
AS LONG AS NO ONE SEES YOU DOING SO
Part 5 PAUL SEEMS TO ALTER HIS BELIEFS AND WHATEVER ELSE IS
NECESSARY FOR THE "SAKE OF THE GOSPEL".
Part 6 PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE
Part 7 PAUL'S SUPPORT FOR MARRIAGE IS WEAK
Part 8 PAUL WRITES OF HEARING DIVISIONS WITHIN THE CHURCH
AND HOW THIS WAS NOT PROPER AND SHOULD STOP
YET STATES THAT CHRISTAINS SHOULD FOLLOW PAUL
Part 9 PAUL WAS OK WITH THE UNSAVED PREACHING THE GOSPEL
Part 10 PAUL REFERS TO HIMSELF AS A SPIRITUAL FATHER
THE MOST SERIOUS FALSE TEACHING OF PAUL
Part 11 PAUL STATES THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE SILENT
Part 12 PAUL IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING ELDERS.
THEREFORE HE IS OPPOSED TO WOMEN BEING
SHEPHERDS/PASTORS.
PART 13 PAUL'S FALSE BELIEF THAT THE RETURN OF JESUS WOULD TAKE
PLACE WITHIN A HUMAN LIFETIME RESULTS IN HIM TEACHING
AGAINST MARITAL SEX AND NORMAL EMOTIONS
PART 14 PAUL STATES THAT HE IS A PERFECT CHRISTIAN
Part 15 PAUL TEACHES THAT CHRISTIANITY IS HIERARCHICAL
CONCLUSION AND FINAL THOUGHTS
@@Szpak-123 you’re just a bot copying and pasting the same comment everywhere, end of the day if you don’t hold Gods word as authoritative and inerrant guidance for the believer, you’re no better than the liberal Christians who twist scripture to say whatever they want it to say and allow gay marriage, homosexual behaviour, lying, divorce, adultery, gossiping and other things that destroy a church. You need to repent and believe. You’re not a Christian if you reject Gods word.
@@Szpak-123 translation of what you just said: I used to be a Christian and had faith in the word of God, then I compromised my faith and no longer have faith in anything
repent and believe
I'm extremely motivated by the Gospel teaching you proclaim sir🙌
You all love to take 1 chapter and run with it. It is vital when reading Gods word, that we ask for his guidance, clarity and understanding- lest you be lead into error.
The idea that women cannot preach or teach in the church often stems from a misunderstanding of specific passages, such as 1 Timothy 2:12-14 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. However, it is vital that these passages be interpreted in context. In the cultural and historical setting of the early church, women were often uneducated and unfamiliar with Scripture, which could lead to disruptions during teaching. Paul's instructions were aimed at addressing these specific issues of order, not creating a universal ban on women preaching.
Scripture provides numerous examples of women in leadership roles, teaching, and prophesying. Deborah was a prophet and judge over Israel (Judges 4:4-5), leading and guiding God's people. In the New Testament, Priscilla, alongside her husband Aquila, taught Apollos, a respected teacher of the early church, explaining to him the way of God more accurately (Acts 18:26). Additionally, women such as Phoebe served as a deacon in the church (Romans 16:1-2), and Paul recognized Junia as “outstanding among the apostles” (Romans 16:7), affirming her significant leadership role.
Furthermore, Joel 2:28-29, fulfilled at Pentecost in Acts 2:17-18, declares that God’s Spirit is poured out on both men and women, empowering them to prophesy. Galatians 3:28 reinforces the equality of men and women in Christ, saying, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." These examples demonstrate that God calls and equips both men and women to teach, preach, and lead for His purposes. Any interpretation that denies women this role contradicts the overarching message of Scripture about God's inclusive call and the gifting of His Spirit.
The bible states that masters can beet their slayves. What is the context of this verse? can you explain what it means? Thanks.
I find the quotation and refutation interpretation reading of that passage in 1 Cor 14 to be convincing. Paul is quoting a saying of the Corinthians, as he does a few times throughout the letter, and then refutes is in the following verses, affirming that everyone should strive to project but to do so in an orderly manner. (1 Corinthians 14 is also specifically talking about interpretation of tongues and evaluating legitimacy of prophecy, not teaching or speaking generally.)
No scripture to substantiate what he said
This topic will make many to stumble and error.
@@BazilGaming-z3t exactly... just made up a story about women causing a ruckus in the church.... people are so quick to follow man rather than accept what thus says the Lord!
Actually Aquila and Priscilla did teach Apollos together
Romans 16:3-4
3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
Acts 18: 1-3
1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;
2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.
3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.
Acts 18:18
And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.
Acts 18:24-26
24 ¶And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
1 Corinthians 16:19
The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.
2 Timothy 4: 19
19 Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus.
YEP ! GAL 3 vs 28 29 ! There is neithter jew or Greek, there is neither slave or free ,there is neither male nor female ,for we are all one in Christ Jesus! Amen 🙏 🫶 🙌 ✨️
@@charlesdarmanin8763 Context is important. Those verses had nothing to do with teaching or leading in the church, and everything to do with being saved.
These are the teachings we need in our classes and the world would be a better place.
No, we do not need wicked religion and traditions of men doctrine taught in our classes.
It's so sad that people born some few decades ago want to correct God, thinking that He made mistake;By commanding women to keep silence in churches, trying to sympathize with women.Its God that spoke through Paul.
In 1 Timothy 2 13-14 Paul gives the reason for his statements in verses 11-12 of the same chapter that a woman should learn in quietness and full submission. and not teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
Doesn't work.
A Judge could teach scripture.
A Judge could execute.
See Deborah, Judges 4 and 5, else my free essay on her.
Exactly Paul even gave the reason why they shouldn’t preach
In the book of Romans it says that the man Adam brought sin into the world. Go take a look at it
@@sumayaali1756 That does not contradict what is in 1 Timothy.
Was Deborah quiet? God made Deborah a leader over men. Why are Paul's words more important than God's actions?
Phew 😪😪was worried that Cliffe wasn’t good at reading the Bible for a second lol. He’s a legend, and I appreciate his ministry.
Prophecy and preaching is different.
What's the difference?
Prophecy is the foretelling of a specific event that will occur in the future while preaching is expounding on a specific text to deliver a message that results in learning, guidance, instruction, correction, repentance, believing, etc!
@passportreadyvibes4131 Yes it can be foretelling,
Propheteuo: to prophesy, to foretell things to come
to declare truths through the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit, whether by prediction or not.
the Bible says you may ALL prophesy, but it does not say you may all be pastors
Prophets in the New Testament often refer to "teachers".
I know a woman who preached the gospel every chance she got and led countless people to the Lord. Ever hear of Corey Ten Boom?
Yes, she was a public speaker and writer. She was not a pastor.
@rlhicks1 I bet she would have been one awesome pastor though.
@@scottthomas3877and many men could be good mothers but it's not God's intended order
@@scottthomas3877 seems like women is your god, clown.
God chose Deborah to lead men. To lead a nation.
"A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at the first encounter with the minds of others. "
-Ayn Rand-
Paul meant that women should not take on head pastoral roles as a shepherd of the church, this is not their role. But they can teach, preach and share in other settings and roles.
"Paul meant......"
How do YOU get to decide what Paul meant?
@@noelpucarua2843because it’s pretty clear, Paul backs this up by going back to genesis, and comparing it to when Gods headship model that He created in Him being the head, Adam being led by God and Adam’s wife being led by her husband, was turned upside down and sin entered the world. Paul wasn’t just some mad raving looney who said whatever he wanted to in an attempt to suppress women, he was an apostle chosen by God to preach the true gospel and sound doctrine. If you reject Paul’s words you’re not rejecting Paul, you’re rejecting Gods authority over His church.
@@Steve_T14 I'm rejecting your claim to say what Paul means.
How do you get to decide what Paul means, what Genesis means, or that anyone is "chosen by God"?
You don't even say which church is "His church".
You, and mrscottpodcast, have made such big claims that maybe you think you are "His church"
Tell me clearly, who gave you authority to say what scripture means? Because that's what it comes down to.
@ Scripture gives believers of Christ to interpret it in Timothy 3:16-17. Let’s be clear about this, both stances for complimentarianism and egalitarianism cannot both be true, one must be right and one must be a wrong as they are opposed interpretations of scripture. So you have to weigh up the evidence of what Paul is saying, you are arguing in the camp where if you read what Paul is saying, and you examine the context and evidence, scriptures words are against you, so you may argue your rejecting my authority to interpret scripture, but again you’re only rejecting the authority of Gods word. One day you will have to answer for that, not to me, but to God. Scripture is pretty simple on this matter, it is God breathed and authoritative, and it says women are not to hold leadership positions in the church.
@@Steve_T14 Believers interpret scripture very differently from one another. What makes you special?
You haven't even shown that Paul is chosen by God. You haven't even established the authority of the Bible.
Tell me this. Who decided which books were to be included in the Bible, and which books were to be excluded from the Bible?
Someone, even some people, decided that. You know that is the case.
Why do you base your faith on their decisions?
Until you have established the truth of their decisions you have to rely on your opinion and your opinion only.
Do you even know who those people were?
Can you say who they were. Can you say why you believe in their decisions?
It is your faith in people you don't know, and in their decisions, that is at the very heart of the matter.
Before quoting Paul, and interpreting him, you have to establish the truth of the decisions made by people you don't know.
So, name the people who decided which books to include, and which to exclude from the Bible, and tell me why you believe in them.
Jesus is literally the light of the world cliff intellectualizes and tears apart life changing truths.
It’s a simple question of what is your authority. Is your authority the word of God, that forbids women in leadership roles in the church due to the fall of man from Genesis, when Gods headship model of authority was turned upside down and sin entered the world through Eve leading Adam into sin, or is your authority yourself who follows your deceitful heart and believe that women are called into leadership roles. If you reject Paul’s words on the leadership structure of how a church is to be, you’re not rejecting Paul, you’re rejecting Gods authority in His word.
Adam heard it straight from God’s mouth to not eat the fruit, but he did it anyway. Not because he was weak and “listened to his wife”, but because he also wanted to be like God. He just thought that he could blame Eve for it, and he’d get away scot free.
@@kimonokat1928 The reason Adam is blamed for sin entering the garden in the bible and not eve is because Adam was the head of his wife. Sin entered because he didn’t rebuke his wife for wanting to disobey God. Adam should have told his wife not to eat it instead he listened to her. Genesis 3:17 tells us why God punished Adam
“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree which I commanded you saying “you shall not eat from it” cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you will eat of it, all the days if your life. “
The bible doesn’t say Adam ate because he wanted to be like God, it says he was cursed because he listened to his wife over obeying God, it says Eve took the fruit and gave it to her husband because she wanted to be wise like God and listened to the serpent. Your interpretation is wrong.
@@Steve_T14
you wrote:
..., it says he was cursed...
Were Adam and Eve cursed due to the Fall?
First what, SPECIFICALLY, was cursed is what is important to know.
The serpent was cursed.
The 'ground' was cursed.
__________________________________________
Then the Lord God said to the serpent,
“Because you have done this,
Cursed are you more than all the livestock,...
-excerpt Genesis 3
__________________________________________
Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying,
‘You shall not eat from it’;
Cursed is the ground because of you;...
-excerpt Genesis 3
_________________________________________
The curse on the ground was prophesied to be lifted
by Lamech.
Now Lamech lived 182 years, and fathered a son. And he named him Noah, saying, “This one will give us comfort from our work and from the hard labor of our hands caused by the ground which the Lord has cursed.”
-excerpt Genesis 5
Noah name meaning = rest
Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took some of every kind of clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. The Lord smelled the soothing aroma, and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.
-excerpt Genesis 8
Was Adam cursed? NO
Was Eve cursed? NO
_______________________________
To the woman He said,
“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you shall deliver children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”
So women now experience great pain in childbirth,
yet there are more people on earth now than have ever
been in the earth's history.
In the natural view of things, the strong dominate the
weak. Strong animals over the weaker. Strong countries
over the weaker. The physically stronger gender over the
weaker gender. There is a natural tendency for men to
want/need to rule over women, even though both genders
are equal before God.
As God said:
And he shall rule over you.
God explains to Eve that Adam would treat her
differently now. This was a warning to Eve. It
extends to all women, in that men in general
view women as lesser in a spiritual way. Men
in general, regard a woman being over them
as a humiliation, because they see women as
lesser beings. Not equals.
So Abimelech came to the tower and fought against it, and approached the entrance of the tower to burn it down with fire. But a woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech’s head, crushing his skull. Then he called quickly to the young man, his armor bearer, and said to him, “Draw your sword and kill me, so that it will not be said of me, ‘A woman killed him.’” So the young man pierced him through, and he died.
-excerpt Judges 9
Genesis 5, which comes after the Fall of mankind (in
Genesis 3) says this below:
This is the book of the generations of Adam. On the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them “mankind” on the day when they were created.
In Genesis 1 below we read this:
So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
Obviously, the earth has more people than ever in its history.
Obviously, the earth is subdued. Trees cut. Rivers dammed.
Gold and oil extracted, etc.
__________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
Natural tendencies changed regarding men and
women after the fall. Natural physical changes also.
Women were not cursed.
Men were not cursed.
Men and women are still blessed.
@@Szpak-123 you’re arguing over semantics over a point I wasn’t even making. I’ll entertain you though even though I’m convinced you are a bot. Men and woman apart from God are depraved because of the sin that entered the world through the fall of man. Isaiah 64:6. Man and woman are dead in their sins without Christ. This wasn’t the point I was making though, even though you chose to nitpick. The point being is that sin was allowed to enter the world because man submitted to his wife instead of God. Genesis 3:16 “you will desire for your husband, AND HE WILL RULE OVER YOU”.
Women have no place to be ordained in positions of authority over men in the church. If you disagree with that, then you are in rebellion against Gods word.
@@Steve_T14
Look at it this way, there are 2 sons of Israel having a
hypothetical discussion during the time of Shamgar the son of Anath (Judges 3).
One states that there was no possibility that God would ever
send a woman to be a Judge over Israel. He states his invalid
argument to the other man. We know his argument was invalid
because the next Judge was a woman, that is, Deborah.
What is the valid argument put forward by the man that believed
that God could indeed send a woman as a Judge? If you don't
know that argument then you're missing something.
Keep in mind that the Judge was the primary pastor/shepherd of
God's people during this time period. A Judge could judge
homicide cases. A Judge could teach from the Law, that is,
scripture, when giving a verdict.
The above paragraph is indeed valid. I wrote an informal free
essay on Deborah and am very familiar with her story.
Men should lead in the church and the family. It's what works
Stop it lol,the Bible specifically says who can be a pastor/elder/minister
Also God says the man/woman relationship. How can a man be the head at home but then be the tail at church?
When a preacher in a Restoration Movement congregation reached the passage in John where Jesus turned the water into wine, he began to do some verbal gymnastics to shape the text to fit what he believed. Likewise, the street preacher is performing some verbal gymnastics to shape Paul's writings to fit his belief system, which has obviously been shaped by political correctness and modern ideology.
Lots of talking, lots of avoiding simple truth. I Tim. 2:11-12 forbids women to teach because {13) Adam was formed first (was made to be leader). and (14) Adam was not the one deceived (confused by deception). Long and loud talking does not compensate for false teaching.
synagogues also had, and some still do, the Mechitzah: Separate Seating in the Synagogue. This means men sat on one side, and women/wives sat on the other side, so there would have been some interruptions of wives calling out to their husbands for clarification.
Women in the church - th-cam.com/video/oaeW_JB3c5g/w-d-xo.html
It comes down to this, you don't just let any woman, nor any man for that matter, preach and teach, without first knowing them and their walk in Christ.
For there is no Jew nor Greek in Christ, we are all one - paraphrased.
False
@@RISE-AND-THRIVEU so you've been to every synagogue on the earth?
@@Darren777Au don't need to go to multiple synagogues to know woman shouldn't lead. I have Scripture. Did you have to go to Jerusalem to know Jesus died on the cross??
Agree to disagree agreeably. Genesis 3:16-19, to Eve: multiplying thy 0:14 sorrow & thy conception, & Adam: cursed is the ground for thy sake, in sorrow thou shall eat all the days of thy life, thorns & thistles, sweat of thy face, dust to dust. God created Adam (& Eve) for an Eternal Life. Only after Adam ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil were they both cursed to die. God deals with all of us with "blessing & cursing". It's the Law that brings us to the understanding of how wretched we are. We were not born in the Image of God, but in the image of Adam, fallen mankind. Genesis 1:26, Let Us make man (singular/Adam) not men in our image after likeness. All mankind after that was born in the image of fallen man, Adam. That's why we must be Born Again, John 3:1-7. Until we accept Yeshua Hamashiach/Jesus the Messiah, as Lord & Savior, we're headed for the Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:11-15. CYH
Great scriptures, what do they have to do with the subject of the video?
Spiritual authority of man & woman in the Beginning. Eve was deceived, Adam was not. He disobeyed God, & hearkened to his wife, instead of his Creator, YHWH/God. It goes back to Genesis. I'm not saying God never uses (speaks through) women, but in the order we're to use when we "assemble" together, 1 Corinthians 14:26-40, there are specific instructions. Modern, Western, Christianity, has abandoned God's commands & instead had incorporated man's traditions. CYH
A 'church' in those early days meant a group of Believers meeting in a house or private place; not a building or organization like we see it these days.
Thank you. I was preaching similar things like in the old days ladies were new to the church... chatting away to guys while others were reading the Word of God which was disrespectful and still is disrespectful. So remaining silent would be the best.
The curse of the woman in Genesis 3 has not changed.
@@holaamigo3084
Neither Adam nor Eve was cursed.
@@holaamigo3084
There is no curse in Genesis 3 against women.
The only one who is cursed is the serpent.
@@holaamigo3084neither Adam norr eve was cursed.
Everybody rushes forward on THIS issue to answer.
We will SEE come Judgment Day how well everyone obeyed Jesus - won't we?
This is what Paul meant?
No. This is what you mean.
We can only say what Paul wrote!
Had the same thought. Paul said, so the women would not usurp authority over men. I Timothy 2:12.
That's what he should've said.
It isn't just Paul's letter to Timothy, it's all in his letter to Titus. And it's not only Paul, Peter also brings up this subject. And the reason women aren't God's chosen for the leading of believers (except to teaching the women) is as explained and revealed in 1 Corinthians ch11.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
If your beliefs can't explain this, they must be false.
Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
@Szpak-123 what the bible says needs to be read and understood as ONE Gospel of Christ (Romans ch1) to us. You cannot discount FOUR very clear New Covenant verses on the basis of presumption, nor without checking and acknowledging the context!
In the bible when the men whom God appointed as leaders refused to do so, of course, God then raised up a woman; that's HIS prerogative. But to CHANGE His teaching to us based on our weakness and stubbornness to obey Him is unwise.
Deborah was a judge in Israel because no men stepped forward. The proof of this fact can be seen by the response of Barak. She told him to go and conquer, and he said to her that he wouldn't go unless Deborah was with him; he refused to obey God and take the LEAD! Therefore Deborah said because he'd not risen yo the challenge in the way God wanted him to, the credit for victory over the enemy would be given to a woman.
This is not doctrine, it is historic events showing a consequence for not doing it God's way.
Clearly, of four new testament DOCTRINAL teaching won't convince you to submit to the Scriptures, I cannot imaging you would agree with what I've said, since I've only echoed the words of doctrine in Scripture.
@@thebible-ourpointofreferen9102
(Not the essay below. But I suggest you request it to be posted.)
Were Deborah AND Barak Judges?
Was Barak a Judge?
Was Deborah a Judge?
And when the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge and saved them from the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the Lord was moved to pity by their groaning because of those who tormented and oppressed them.
-excerpt Judges 2
Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel went up to her for judgment.
-excerpt Judges 4
The peasantry came to an end, they came to an end in Israel,
Until I, Deborah, arose,
Until I arose, a mother in Israel.
-excerpt Judges 5
Tola and Jair were also Judges.
..., rose up to save Israel...
Now after Abimelech died, Tola the son of Puah, the son of Dodo, a man of Issachar, rose up to save Israel; and he lived in Shamir in the hill country of Ephraim. He judged Israel for twenty-three years. Then he died and was buried in Shamir.
...rose up and judged Israel...
After him, Jair the Gileadite rose up and judged Israel for twenty-two years. And he had thirty sons who rode on thirty donkeys, and they had thirty cities in the land of Gilead that are called Havvoth-jair to this day. And Jair died and was buried in Kamon.
-excerpt Judges 10
The same phrasing is used regarding Deborah, Tola and Jair. They were all Judges.
Deborah:
Until I, Deborah, arose,
Until I arose...
Tola:
"...rose up..."
Jair:
"...rose up..."
Barak is never referred to as a Judge. He was commander of the army.
Deborah was the Judge over Israel at this time. She knew it, and so did Barak.
Now she sent word and summoned Barak...
-excerpt Judges 4 (above) Deborah summoning Barak.
She gave the order for the battle to begin that Israel won.
Then Deborah said to Barak, “Arise! For this is the day on which the Lord has handed Sisera over to you...
-excerpt Judges 4 (above) Deborah ordering Barak.
CONCLUSION
Deborah was a Judge.
Barak was not a Judge.
@@thebible-ourpointofreferen9102
you wrote:
Deborah was a judge in Israel because no men stepped forward.
Nothing in Judges 4 or 5 about that.
Also, the Judges were chosen by God. They weren't put in
place by the people, nor could someone just decide they
wanted to be the Judge over Israel.
And when the Lord raised up judges for them,
the Lord was with the judge...
-excerpt Judges 2
Paul's teachings on a number of subjects are all over the
place. He was greatly influenced by his culture as well.
Well . To my knowledge... We know in the end we all will find out, women can prophesy and pray for , but to become a pastor over was not the plan , because it would go against the original order of Man over woman...
Stop misinterpreting the Bible. Woman was a helpmate, do you even know what that means?
@@sumayaali1756 That part is wrong but the previous parts are correct. I am pretty sure he was misremembering:
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
@rlhicks1 since came into the world because of Adam. Christ came for redemption.
What if Adam hadn't eaten that fruit? Don't you think that they would be on different spiritual levels?
They are equally sinners
They sinned by omission and commission
Well said!!!!
Somebody got the link to the whole video?
Read Revelations 2:18-29.
Yet what is often missed is that Jesus does not attack the woman for being a leader, but for being an immoral one.
³But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
⁷For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.
Hi, I saw a lot of your comments on this video and I just want to ask.
I agree Jesus is head of the church, Adam is head over Eve and every husband over his wife. And we know what happened when roles got perverted and Adam listened to his wife. And that's the law of first mention I guess. That part I agree fully with.
So my question is I am single, and for every other single woman and mother, is it okay for them to teach and preach to their kids (both girls and boys and unmarried older gents) and other women??
Should women never preach period or should women never preach to a man??
I am guessing I am asking what do I do with the revelations and all the wisdom I am learning from reading the Bible??
Please help make it practical for me
@zinhlemkhize2332
The Bible teaches that women can not teach if she is in a position to exercise authority over a man. Yes, she can teach other women and children. A wife can teach along side her husband.
Here are several biblical examples of women teaching women and children.
Exodus 15:20,21 - Moses' sister Miriam led the women of Israel in praising God.
Proverbs 1:8 - A son should hear his father's instruction and not forsake his mother's law.
Luke 1:39-56 - Elisabeth and Mary admonished and encouraged one another praising God.
2 Timothy 1:5 - From childhood Timothy had been taught the sacred Scriptures (3:15). The faith he possessed clearly came through his grandmother Lois and mother Eunice.
Titus 2:3-5 - Older women are commanded to teach younger women.
Note that Christian women are not only permitted to teach, they are commanded to do so! God's word does limit women's role, but to deny that women have a role in teaching in some capacity of God's word, would be to completely contradict Scripture.
It just can't be done in a way that exercises authority over a man!
Feel free to ask questions, I'll always give you a biblical answer!
Do you fully agree with those verses?
@@passportreadyvibes4131 Okay thanks, I am so glad. I have always heard arguments, never really got a clear practical Biblical explanation. I appreciate it.
Okay I have another question, since you've been so kind.
I was listening to a podcast and the guests are sharing their testimony on how they stopped using profanity after they read about the third time Peter denied Jesus.
Matthew 26:74 NIV
[74] Then he began to call down curses, and he swore to them, “I don’t know the man!” Immediately a rooster crowed.
The comment section was a mess. One side is like oh no the Scripture was taken out of context, or according to the original text in Greek it means something different so all this is wrong. The other side is like what does it matter when it produced the results??
I thought that was interesting, I agree, even on the NIV if you read it slow you get it in English. But I assume if you're already convicted of your sin it might make you quick to wrongly divide the Word.
What is your take on that??
For me it comes down to this, wrongly dividing the Word is false doctrine, but maybe the Holy Spirit can redeem that. As in this case, but obviously not a method we should apply everywhere, that's how we have Pastors living in sin and justifying it.
Thank you for this!!! Someone who can interpret this passage correctly and in context!! There are several denominations out there spreading false teachings concerning this.
The first person to preach the gospel was a woman. What is the gospel of Jesus Christ it is the good news that He has risen and has been resurrected by our heavenly Father. A woman was the first person to tell the disciples
Actually the first to preach the gospel was Jesus Christ and also there’s another to preach and it’s another for a woman to take leadership as a Pastor for there are requirements in scriptures like 1️⃣ Timothy 3.
She wasnt in church leading or preaching to the saved congregation
What scriptures did she preach from?
If I remember correctly John the Baptist was the first to speak about salvation through Jesus
False, she witnessed, or testified. She was not a preacher or teacher. I believe the Apostle Paul had more authority than you. Teaching and preaching is authority. Women are not to have authority over men. I know you read the verses, but we can bring them up if you need to. If you want to talk about Deborah, that's fine too. But God's word is flawless. He does not contradict Himself. The scripture directly says Women are not to teach or have authority over men. You can testify, share your faith, and the like. Even then, you are to be silent in the church. Unless teaching other women, or children. You read the Bible, I know you do.
Yeah let's put our own spin on things to suit my narrative. It also says in the bible not to add or subtract from it
Whether or not a woman should preach should probably be left between the woman and God. I know personally since I was born again, there have been many scriptures I misunderstood and issues I promoted that drove people away from the Kingdom of God. Not sin issues of course, but issues of religiosity, so to speak. I’ve grown in the LORD and have learned that we misunderstand many things. So whether a woman should preach, I don’t know. But I do know that Deborah was a judge and she absolutely exercised authority over the men of Israel in that position, but God was over her. In fact, the commander Barak refused to go up against the Canaanites unless she went with them. Also, Esther led Israel in a fast. And scripture also says, in Acts 10:34 and Romans 2:11 that God does not show partiality and that partiality is a sin (James 2:9). Galatians 3:28 says there is no difference between Jews and Greeks, and male and female. Hebrews 13:8 says
Jesus Christ [is] the same yesterday, today, and forever. And Malachi 3:6 says, “I am the LORD, I do not change”. So, if this is true, (and Numbers 23:19, says God is not a man that He should lie), then if God used a woman in a position such as Deborah before, He could most certainly do so again.
Additionally after the entire discourse regarding head coverings, verse 15 tells us it’s about having long hair.
1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for [her] hair is given to her for a covering.
But in any case, I haven’t been called to preach, but I’ve learned it’s a dangerous thing to presuppose to know what God’s will is for other people. Be blessed in JESUS CHRIST!
3muz,
The issue should be left to God, and from Genesis chapter 1, all through the bible, God has established an order of Authority within the Trinity, within the family and within the church.
Eve was made from Adam, to be a helper for him and Adam was given authority over her.
1 Timothy 2:11-12 “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.”
This verse applies to how things are to be done in the church. Women can still pray and they can have authority over other women or children, but not men in the church.
In 1 Corinthians 11:1-3 Paul says, “Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”
This is the exact same structure of leadership that was initiated in the book of Genesis! God gave authority to the first man, over the first woman.
@@buckbuchanan4902 Okay, in Timothy Paul, said he didn't permit women to teach and have authority over men, but does God permit? This is the real question
@@ArrozAmareladono
@@ArrozAmarelado bingo.. at last someone asked the correct question, and the answer to that is "Yes!".
Because according to Jesus we are all equal. And according to Paul himself, we are to only accept any doctrine if it only aligns with what Jesus has preached. And Jesus very clearly preached that we should not commit anymore vows towards God even. Yet Paul did not know this. Hence even in the book of Acts we see him fulfilling vows by shaving his head and circumcising Timothy to appease the Jews cos of them still holding onto Mosaic law, even though it had been clearly fulfilled by Jesus in every form.
Yet this lack of knowledge in fact is the very base Paul uses to stop women not just from preaching, but even holding any lesser position in a church like being a warden unless they are old widows, cos he views a dedication or desire to serve God as a lifetime vow and points towards the old testament and a Mosaic law that exists where a woman is meant to uphold any vow she makes towards God unless her husband or father disagrees to it. Which then would essentially prohibit a woman from completing her duties successfully if she is married and is simultaneously an active member of the church. Yet we see Jesus teaching us to love God even more than our parents and be willing to forsake them too for the kingdom of God which is again something Paul probably didn't know at least during the time of writing those letters.
So once again, God clearly allows anyone who wants to serve him to serve him, irregardless of their gender, nationality or past.
IT IS UP TO GOD AND HE SAYS NO!
Amen amen Cliff!
At the time Paul wrote this letter to the Corinthian church there was a temple of Diana across the bay from this church, the prophetess of Diana would come over and interrupt the meetings, so Paul said to stop them. History, content, location….
I have heard this same story and this story is a story from modern, progressive churches tell to bend the Scriptures to allow women to preach. I reject this notion completely. God inspired Paul to write these verses and God does not make mistakes nor God's Word never changes, yesterday, today nor tomorrow.
You cannot make that conclusion from the bible alone. You are not allowed to add anything to the bible.
@@richardallison8745 True, God doesn't make mistakes. Men just can't read properly. We're talking about 1 Cor 14. Paul speaks first of what he's heard they are doing, then he corrects them, from the very beginning of 1 Cor. When he gets to chapter 14, he does the same. He first speaks about how they are conducting themselves in Church meetings, then he corrects them. Verses 34, and 35, should give you a heads up. Especially 34. When did Paul ever teach the Law after conversion? 34) "Let your women keep silence in the Churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but, (and the next words are in italics which means man added them so the text made sense) (they are commanded) to be under obedience, as also sayeth the Law." "And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the Church." I love verse 36. Maybe you can't see the sarcasm in what he is saying (maybe you're biased), but, he says, "What? (say it to yourself sarcastically), came the Word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?" Then in verse 37 he says, "If any man THINK himself to be a PROPHET, or SPIRITUAL, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." Then 38) "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 39) "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues." 40) "Let all things be done decently and in order." I pray you are not ignorant.
@@rogerrabbit5014 yet there is no mention of this in scripture. Adding to God's word and your name shall be removed from the book of life. Revelation 22
@@richardallison8745I agree that God is the same yesterday, today and forever! Deborah was a judge in the Old Testament; and He also used many women to prophesy in the Old and the New Testament! I surely respect your opinion on the stance you take on who should be able to have leadership roles in the church...and I don't believe that it's a salvational issue; and it's certainly not worth promoting division between members of the body of Christ! But I agree with Cliffe on his point about allowing women doing whatever God has called them to do! God bless you and yours!
63,000 connections in the Bible, he was preaching in the church of Timothy at that time. People were worshiping false woman gods etc..:: you gotta read multiple texts to understand that meaning.
He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with Him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And when they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe.
So she went and told the disciples he was alive and you have concluded that she preached. Again, according to your definition you provided...she herald the message... simply put... she delivered the news.
She was a witness , not a preacher.
@@JV-jq4dtwhat's the difference
You're going beyond what is written. Mary saw Jesus was gone and told others, and she's a woman, therefore, that negates the clear teachings regarding the office of church elders and deacons must be men.
Elders, pastors, bishops, shepherds, overseers, are all different ways of saying elder.
@@azpersonal seriously? Anyone can be a witness, even 6 year old children, that does not mean they are preachers.
@@JV-jq4dt My question is: what differentiates witnessing from preaching? So we are allowed to witness as women, but not allowed to preach? If I say the same words in a church building, then it's considered preaching, but if I'm on the streets, it's merely witnessing or what exactly. All of these distinctions make no sense to me.
As the daughter of a staunch and devout ex-Muslim mother who was minding her own business, she got saved and anointed, without any intention to preach. I'm puzzled by these interpretations. A few months after her conversion, she led a die-hard atheist to Christ. This individual witnessed her praying for a neighbour's dying child, who subsequently survived.
Yet, despite these experiences, we're told that Paul said not to teach men or usurp authority, which is now interpreted as "Oh, you can't preach in a church." Christians need to study the Scriptures more thoroughly and interpret them through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The term "teach" was used in line with "usurping authority." It was an issue of order, not a matter of calling. Just like when I correct my younger siblings and say so you want to teach me right instead of listening.
So, the same God who pours out His Spirit on both men and women is now said to prohibit women from preaching? If my mother is invited to a women's conference to share her story, should she remain silent simply because some men accompanied their wives?
"You don't just interpret any way"... Says the Protestant pastor 😂. In all seriousness, this is a banger of a clip.
Protestants follow rules of interpretación.
We don't make stuff up just bc we don't follow the Pope.
We are all called to preach the gospel ❤. Men should be pastors over the church not women.
Simply put and very well said. 👍🏼
Best response
Wisdom speaks!
Where's your Bible?You're preaching out on the other side of your mouth.Where's your bible
YES BROTHER YOUR BIBLE COMMENCE ARE CORRECT
I love Cliffe!!
But NO, a woman cannot preach.
There isn’t a single female preacher in the Word of God.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
Full read time: 10 minutes postable here
@ Last time I checked, judging and preaching were two different things. The scriptures CLEARLY give the qualifications for a bishop/pastor. You can’t argue scripture.
saying a woman cannot preach is misogynistic. women can 100% preach, sex has nothing to do with spreading the gospel.
@ Sharing the gospel, and preaching are two different things.
According to 1 Timothy 3:2-5, It is a mans duty.
The fact that people are willing to overlook or disregard what the Word of God says, shows how backwards we’ve become, not only in scripture, but in the way live as well.
No matter how you twist it, a CIRCLE will never fit into a SQUARE.
@@bsean1179
The gospel is a teaching. The first and most important of all. If a woman can teach a man the gospel, she can teach all the lesser teachings to men. This is logic.
Even in the teaching/preaching of the gospel, a man may ask a woman
about something scriptural/spiritual. So if the man asks about the so-called
7 deadly sins, she can't say a word? If indeed she can speak to him about this
as an unsaved man, then she can't once he becomes saved?
When all this becomes about gender, instead of the Holy
Spirit, there is confusion.
no, Cliff isn't right! The Bible is clear in the fact that the Lord forbids a woman to teach in the church!
Ditto.
Yes, Cliff is correct. The Bible is clear, as you see it, your interpretation, because the Lord NEVER FORBADE a woman to teach. It was customary of that day and time for women not to speak out in public. And it was Paul who checked these women that were causing a ruckus in public that caused a disturbance to the men that were gathering to learn because man was the authority in the home.
Agreed
If that's the case.... provide the scriptures where this so called disturbance was taking place@datharrisboi1
This topic has made many to error. May God guide us by His spirit.
The Bible is very clear. Paul does not mention education or cultural times but the order of creation. Women are not to hold the office of pastor/elder or to have authority over a man. I have seen too many marriages where the woman is usurping her husband's authority and its a disaster.
The bible is full of contradictions, hypocrisy and falsehoods. it is the farthest thing from being "clear" my friend.
Paul came along, heavily influenced by his culture and wrote:
But I do not allow a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man...
People already knew this was just fine in God's sight, and was settled centuries earlier with Deborah. They knew that God didn't care that Eve sinned in the Garden, else there would be a gender-qualification regarding being called to be a Judge.
Yet you can't prove a single one@@TboneWTF
Great common sense approach to truth and questions
Paul differentiates been men and women when he says when women pray and prophesy they should have their heads covered
Cliff letting the culture dictate scripture.
Absolutely woke Christianity
Before I interpret, I first obey.
First obey, then get down to the questions.. The Christian Faith is an army, not a courtroom where lawyers drag truth in to kill it the death of a thousand qualifications
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If you are truly baptized in the Holy Spirit Like the women that were at Pentecost, you can preach and lead a church. The Holy Spirit confirms who can be used for his work, no man can! The spirit will bear witness with other spirit filled believers.
Cliff, that is false doctrine and you know it. You have no scripture to support what you said. Paul was very direct and very consistent in what he said. Imagine looking for context when we talk about adultery, lying, etc. The bible is very direct about these things.
But we choose not to follow all the old testament teachings. I think Paul's letters in particular make the most sense when we consider who they were written for. Yes we can learn from these but If you consider how Jesus dealt with women we get a true picture. One of the woman preached at Pentecost.
@@donczns Yes we can look at different references in the bible to support our beliefs. Its always a matter of choice. Some believe drinking alcohol is okay. So to each his own, but let us not misrepresent what Paul said and come up with stories that are not supported by Scripture in the way Mr Cliff just did.
P.S. We don't ignore all of the old testament teachings. If fact the Old testament is referenced a lot in the New testament. I am assuming your point is with regard to the Law? Well Paul clearly states we are no longer under the Law Romans 7:1 - 6. Jesus has fulfilled the law.
Question, if a woman is full of the HOLY SPIRIT does she quench what HE is doing, no! The HOLY SPIRIT is in authority. Preach the WORD!
A SILENT PERSON CANT BE HEARD, WE'RE NOT MIND READERS❤
Read the translation of the gospel of Phillip, which was found in the Dead Sea scrolls. It does not appear in the standard Bible because it shows that both Peter and Paul are Misogynists who were determined to remove the Magdalen from their version of the biblical record.
it also records that Peter and Paul were very jealous of the close relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalen. Especially when Jesus revealed more of his teachings to her than to them.
if Christ is the only mediator between God and man, and all in Christ are equal, then a man has no more authority than a woman to speak on these matters. Perhaps in the physical churches, and perhaps between those who are in Christ and those who are not, but in the spiritual body of Christ, all are equal. There is no man that comes between God and his offspring otherwise that would completely change the dynamic and thus the entire gospel. PS the New Testament is not the Old Testament.
You are wrong. Read 1 Corinthians 13 and 1 Timothy 3. God inspired Paul to write what he wrote. You need to argue with God if you don't like what is in Scripture. There are other verses and chapters that support what I say. The modern church is teaching false doctrine. The only thing I agree with you is the Old Testament was fulfilled and we are not under the Old Law any more. Lately I have been visiting some other churches and in my 70 years, I am aghast on false doctrine Pastors are preaching. The Seminaries are influenced today by demonic doctrines. Remember, God's words have not changed in the past, today or in the future. Nothing has changed except feminism has infiltrated the Church.
@@richardallison8745I’d argue that “feminism” is not the only thing that has infiltrated the so called churches. To say that is blatantly misogynistic. There are churches that teach women to be silent, submissive, etc., and still teach false doctrine. Some so called churches, fully ran and led by MEN, say Jesus is God, some say He is not, for example. They can’t all be right, now can they?
@@richardallison8745 “feminism” is not the only thing that has infiltrated the Church. To suggest otherwise is blatantly misogynistic and not sound doctrine, either. There are countless so called churches where women are taught to be submissive and silent, fully ran and led by MEN, that teach Jesus is God while others teach that He is not, for example. Now, they can’t all be right, can they?
THE BIBLE SAYS DIFFERENTLY.
Equality, order and leadership aren't the same. A woman isn't permitted to have leadership and authority over men in the church, and clear reasons were given by Paul the Apostle going all the way back to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. You are free to choose to accept or reject it, but the Word of God on the matter has been made available.
KJV: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." RSV: "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent." GNB: "I do not allow them to teach or to have authority over men; they must keep quiet."
要远避无知的辩论和家谱的空谈，以及纷争，并因律法而起的争竞，因为这都是虚妄无益的。 分门结党的人，警戒过一两次，就要弃绝他。 (提多书 3:9-10 和合本)神在不同的时代对那个时代蒙他宣召的人有特别的使命，当然神托付给宇宙范围里教会的大使命是一直持续到主再来，但是，当今从全球范围基督徒世界来看，"男权"在教会里还是占主流，这是仇敌籍着这个蒙闭拦阻神的事工、割裂教会在肢体里的联合，约书亚带领全以色列12个支派征服迦南，预表灵命成熟者脱离情欲的败坏都要跟随主执行大使命，这是神对全地教会的呼召，新约四福音书中记载主耶稣"道成肉身"，不是"道成人身"，我们蒙召的每个个体是凭圣灵重生，以后靠圣灵行事，在服侍的领域，圣灵籍着人做工跟性别、年龄、高矮、胖瘦、没有任何关系，大家是以肢体的概念配搭，做主的"器皿"，但有些宗派，如极端改革宗、长老宗、聚会处等，他们明目张胆压制神呼召的姊妹传道，甘愿使用那些没有被破碎、不明白主呼召的男性弟兄做传道，若是亚伦等次的呼召继续有效，神就不需要在希伯来书五章开启"麦基洗德的等次"，我们是在建造属灵的生命，永恒的天国，不是凭肉身行事，真假混合是撒旦一贯使用的伎俩，因为福音的传播，男女平权从西方传到古老的东方顽石之地，魔鬼却在教会里又兴起"男权运动"，从西方到东方也随处可见，可悲又可叹！求主向那些自以为掌握"绝对真理"，在公开场合宣讲不许女人讲道的人们闭嘴[闭嘴]，求圣灵开启他们的心窍，因着他们的言论，杀死了许多蒙主所召的女传道，也对神的教会造成严重的破坏，拦阻了圣灵的工作，都伏在神大能的权柄之下，真明白主的心意！[合十]
A women can do anything in the church as long as it doesn’t contradict the order of God.
YOUR HEAD IS COVERED WHEN YOUR A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO IS YOUR HEAD,AND IN THE BODY OF CHRIST THERE ARE JUST PEOPLE ONLY NO GENDER COLOR RELIGION ALL IN THE BODY OF CHRIST BELIEVERS CAN SPEAK OF WHO THEY BELIEVE IN IF THEY ARE SILENT WHAT THEIR SAYING IS IN THEIR SILENCE 🔕 IS THEY DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE NOT MIND READERS❤
This is dumb
❤❤❤yes!
Well said - The new testament has women Prophetesses, Evangelists, Elders, Etc.. The whole Bible must be taken into consideration when making a sweeping statement out of a single passage.
No, only the New Testament needs to be considered since there was no local net testament church in the Old Testament. There were no female church elders or pastors and a prophetess and evangelist are not church leaders.
GAL 3 vs 28-29! There is niether Jew or Greek, slave nor free niether male or female; for we are all one in Christ Jesus! Amen 🙏 🫶 🙌 ✨️
Another example of using Scripture to bend and make it say something that it does not say. Paul wrote about women and their place in the church and in 1 Tim 3, there are only two positions in the church, Bishop which is Pastor and Deacon. Both positions require a man with only one wife. If you all don't like it, then take it up with God.
This verse is about salvation not about role or office.
Haven't you seen the video clip ?
@@charlesdarmanin8763 the guy in the video is not explaining these verses from the context of the bible.
@@charlesdarmanin8763 Why do I need to see this video when I can read the Bible myself. That is a problem that people think there is more to the Scriptures and I need to hear man or man-made movies to understand Scripture. Man messes everything up and twists Scripture to make it say what sinful man wants. I don't need to see a video to know what the Scripture says. I pray to the Holy Spirit for context and understanding of the Word.
Public is quite different than preaching in the worship service, or holding a position of power over men. 1 Tim 2:12
You got this one wrong Cliffe. You got to use Scripture to back your claim.....and you couldn't.
😂 I have no white god
Pay attention...he did use Scripture, he told you to read in context! 🙏
If you want to treat women as second class citizens then believe what you want, but I’ll choose to treat women as equals like the Bible says. Have a nice day
Yes he did, sounds more like what he said didn't suit your narrative.
“God is not the author of Confusion” and “the devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy” so the fact that you are not only trying to bring confusion, you are also trying to steal, kill, and destroy the very message that just proves who your father is; so humble yourself before God and learn the right way before its too late
Amen!🙏🏻✝️
1 Timothy 2:11-14
“Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.”
Paul appeals to the creation order in Genesis, emphasizing that Adam was formed before Eve. He also refers to the Fall, noting that Eve was deceived.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
“The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.”
The reference to “the Law” suggests a broader principle of order and submission rooted in Old Testament teachings.
Ephesians 5:22-24
“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.”
While this passage addresses marriage, it is often applied to church leadership as well, suggesting a parallel between family and church structures. The husband’s role as the head is indicative of male leadership in both home and church.
Leadership and teaching authority in the church are seen as responsibilities given specifically to men. For example,In the New Testament, the qualifications for elders and overseers (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9) emphasize male leadership.
Part 6
PAUL TEACHES THAT A HUSBAND RULES OVER HIS WIFE
This is sometimes referred to as the deification of a man
over a woman in the marriage covenant, which is what
Paul supports in this false teaching. This false teaching
is serious, and carries over to his false teachings regarding
gender in a church setting. Elders must be men, etc.
-excerpt of Part 6 (above)
which hell exactly? is eternal torment = lake of fire(second death)? the first questions are rhetorical btw. Anyone know the difference between Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus?
I am aware 1 Timothy 2:11-12 and 1 Corinthians 14:34 says women should be silent, and then Romans 16 commends Phoebe and other women in their ministry and says they are worthy of leadership. I know you can argue, unsuccessfully in my opinion, that a deacon is somehow subordinate, but silent is silent. You cannot perform any ministry silent, even that of deacon. So I interpret Paul's writings as he is judging on merit, not making a generic statement based on gender. In other words, he is saying THESE women should stay silent (because they falsely give phophecy) and THOSE women are worthy of church leadership (because there understanding of scripture is spot on). Remember folks, Paul is not sending a round robin email to reply all. Yes, some teachings have generic application, but where scripture appears to contradict, it might be specific not generic. Paul was writing to specific churches and addressing their individual needs as well as making specific statements. Here is an individual need.
I grew up in a church that taught against women preaching. Reading the Bible Joel 2:28-32 Joel said in the last days your son's and daughters shall prophesy. Acts 2:17. Peter said they aren't drunk this is what Joel spoke about. Look up the word prophecy in the Hebrew 😂
Prophecy, to speak on behalf of God telling a past or future event. Even a direct message such as Nathan did to David. But this is not the same as a preacher. A preacher studies the sermons. He doesn't just hear God's voice. He is called to teach. A prophet doesn't have to do that necessarily. They simply deliver God's word
1) The problem here is that the CONTEXT of 1 Corinthians 11 lets us know that Paul is rooting his argument in culture but in nature. His justification for telling women to be silent in service is the created order, not in culture.
2) We interpret scripture in light of the context of the passage, but also in light of other scripture. In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 Paul likewise says that he does not permit a woman to speak publicly during a worship service, and he again roots his argument in the created order rather than in culture. This confirms that this prohibition is not meant for a specific congregation or for a specific culture, but that it is for all congregations and all cultures as all are subject to the created order.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
@@Szpak-123 A judge was not a teacher or someone who led God's people in worship. A judge was simply someone who applied the law to specific situations, in the same manner that judges do today. Deborah is not equivalent to pastors or church elders. Therefore, your argument doesn't hold water.
@@colina4699
_____________________________________________________
you wrote:
A judge was not...someone who led God's people in worship.
Then Deborah and Barak the son of Abinoam sang on that day, saying,
“For the leaders leading in Israel,
For the people volunteering,
Bless the Lord!
Hear, you kings; listen, you dignitaries!
I myself-to the Lord, I myself will sing,
I will sing praise to the Lord, the God of Israel!
-excerpt Judges 5
_______________________________________________________
Full essay read time: 10 minutes
The Judge was the primary/senior pastor/shepherd
at that time period.
(In case the reader in unaware, the word pastor and the word
shepherd are the same word. I prefer shepherd, because it has
obvious meaning to the average person.)
Major modern English translations like the NASB use
the phrasing ...whom I commanded to shepherd My people...
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
Some believe that pastor (or shepherd), is a position that
was created in the New Covenant. This is not true. In the Old Testament
shepherds are mentioned multiple times. Often in a negative way.
“My people have become lost sheep;
Their shepherds have led them astray.
-excerpt Jeremiah 50
For an entire chapter on worthless shepherds, the reader may
check out Ezekiel 34.
When the shepherd over Israel died, the people went back into sin. That is because the Judge was the most important spiritual leader of this time period.
But it came about, when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them and bow down to them; they did not abandon their practices or their obstinate ways.
-excerpt Judges 2
@@Szpak-123
1) Deborah and Barak sang a song. There is no evidence that she led the people in a worship service, or that there was anyone other than the two of them in attendance. It was the role of the priests to lead worship, not the role of a judge.
2) Kings were also called shepherds, but the kings were not the religious leaders of Israel, the Priests were. The kings were likewise not the primary teachers of the OT law. They judged according to it, but they were not preaching sermons or holding Bible studies, that was the role of the priests.
3) God gives the sword to the civil government to restrain evil (Genesis 9:6, Romans 13:3-4). When the judges died, the one who wielded the sword to restrain evil died, hence the chaos that resulted upon the death of even corrupt judges like Gideon. Judges were not pastors, they were leaders of the civil government.
@@colina4699
you wrote:
1) Deborah and Barak sang a song.
YGTBKM
2) As I wrote:
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture ...
[Covered in essay.]
3) Judges were not pastors, they were leaders of the civil government.
Then why would it state?:
...when the judge died, that they would turn back and act more corruptly than their fathers,...
God ruled Israel through the Judge. Later on the people
sinned by rejecting God as King. They wanted men to rule
over them as kings, instead of God ruling.
[Covered in essay.]
... I commanded judges to be over my people Israel.
Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, and since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel.
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verses 9 and 10 KJV
-God speaking to Nathan the prophet
You can have the last word.
People are so devoted to their favorite denomination they'll choose their opinions over what scripture plainly says, ALL of it! They'll be glued to one verse- and TOTALLY ignore any other that doesn't fit their denominational opinion!
Agreed! Can’t just read one scripture and run with it. His bride is the true followers from any “denomination” combined. The church. Not a church
The Bible gives a very clear requirements for one to be a Preacher ! One of those is : HE (not she) must be then HUSBAND of one wife. Also he says that women should not usurp authority over a man.
1 Timothy 3:1 KJV
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
In the next chapter, He’s speaking of the requirement of a bishop ( a pastor). He must be a HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, we know very well a woman can’t have a wife, meaning the office is reserved for a man.
Read Deuteronomy 28 and then look up theories of who the lost descendants of Israel are with your newfound knowledge.