This season is good, no annoying affixes, just stat changes. And the one affix there is, it REWARDS you for doing it, and PUNISHES you for failing it. The big down side is at 12, affix goes away. And also the 15s death penalty is absolutely ass. Not only did the HP reset on what ever killed you, but your CDs are gone, AND you just lost 75s on the timer, on top of walking back, and engaging again.
People will be strict and selective when the punishment for failure is severe, if they relent and let up on the punishing design while continuing to work on better smoothing out the difficulty curve I think it would let up somewhat as time goes on.
actually, they can. They can create an environment that encourages stay in the dungeon till the end, trying again with the same group, etc. If the key is allowed to redone without depletion, players will be more willing to restart with the same people and try again. If the rewards are correct, the more people will be willing to stay and finish, which encourages learning the dungeon.
I think its crazy to claim that only m+ has new player problem. I am new to the game and every aspect that is mandatory to be done with other players is highly unwelcoming, I pray to god they expand on delves.
I'm personally loving the current mythic + in TWW, mainly because I hardcore raided in classic TBC/WoTLK. And was pretty burnt out by the release of classic cata. All the talks of groups insta leaving can easily be prevented by just communication, owning up to your mistakes, forgiving of others mistakes.
You have a really spot-on breakdown of why people tend avoid M+ altogether, and it only goes to show that M+ has the potential to be a fundamentally more postive, rewarding system that (hopefully lol) brews a less toxic community! I would love to have an NPC at The Timeways that allows you to choose the dungeon and dungeon lvl you want to your key to be (similarly to delves). When it comes to depletion, I think they should add a catch-up achievement that makes it so when you complete all dungeons at a certain level, keys no longer deplete past that point. I figure it's working with something that's already confirmed to be in the game, so adding it in for lower levels wouldn't be hard. Great video!
Honestly, main reason why i dont play M+ is because of the community. Its not just the bad game design, there is something going on with people since for some reason negative people are drawn there in droves... similarly how in real life certain archetypes of people are drawn to certain professions. I like playing MMOs because it feels like world is alive but that doesnt mean i like to depend on mercy of toxic people or be forced to play certain content if i want to progress... WoW needs progression path for single players. It might sound strange for a game that is all about grouping up, but it will actually be better for both parties if someone isnt forced to do what they dont want to. A player who hates M+ but does it because they have to will end up being a burden to those who want to play m+.
I recently returned to wow after I quit in Shadowlands. I have not tried m+ in TWW yet so I can not talk about TWW specifics, but I was a CE raider and m+ player before I quit. From my old experience, I like the timed aspect of m+ but the depletion system needs to go. Imo M+ were the most fun back in Legion when every pack did not have 50 things you needed to pay attention to so we could do insanely big pulls. There was always a meta but you could still complete really high levels with any set-up as long as you were coordinating well. Nowadays some levels are just impossible without a specific team set-up. This bringing back old dungeons for m+ also needs to go. Some of those old dungeons were not made with m+ in mind so they just do not work well in an m+ environment. I would also prefer it if the level and dungeon select were more like the delves. Instead of relying on a key, let me go to a dungeon and select the level.
Okay i disagree. There are a few important things you are forgetting: - You are comparing delves with M+, and saying you can go to a lower tier delve for smooth progression. M+ does have this! Normal dungeons, heroic dungeons, Mythic dungeons; this are the places where you can learn to do the dungeon, without any big punishment for failing. M+ isnt made to learn the dungeon, its a challenge mode, a challenge mode delve is also very hard if you dont know the delve. You can say that m+ is the highest level of dungeon mode, what would compare it to a tier 8+ Delve or mythic raiding. You dont start as a new player in a tier 8 delve or in a mythic raid. You start with a lower tier delve or LFR/normal raid. - What can happen in m+ when you remove the "your key is lower when you fail": You start the run, someone makes a mistake; we replace the person and start again. Thats how the toxic people will handle it. - You can make friends! Nobody is forcing you to pug every time, find people so you can learn together. People leave you because you dont have the same exp. All challenges with multiple players require good communication. - The punishments are sometimes to hard, that is true, but again, its a challenge mode, if you cant focus for 30 min, maybe you shouldnt have started the key. Keep in mind, that in a raid, people dont like it when everyone have to wait for 1 person, people want to play the game. Being AFK is always negative in group content. - If you remove some of these punishments, you remove the challenge. If you remove the timer, you will create 5 man raiding. M+ needs some of its frustrations, or the mode isn't special anymore. So yes M+ isn't made for new players. You need some knowledge before you enter the system and the game is bad at informing new players what the best way is to grow in the system.
I don't mind lower level mythic plus cause then I can avoid the affixes i hate that just boost health and damage. But I dont really do them because I don't like having a timer, simple as that. Without a timer, I wouldn't mind doing these more. And if they were to update them to be more like delves. Give us lives but no timer, and if we fail, we can try again the same dungeon at the same level. I am like you and do not enjoy punishing games like the Souls games. Probably a reason why I don't like mythic plus all that much. I never really thought of it that way before, so that's neat
It's a concept that I think is far more intertwined with why certain games blow up in popularity compared to others imo. I think one of the reasons Elden Ring blew up so much for Fromsoft is because it largely abandoned the punishing mechanics that the older games were kind of known for, namely run backs. They are still there but FAR less severe and more often than not they just respawn you right outside the boss room instead of 5 min away, and the game gives you a bunch of different options for builds so if one playstyle isn't your cup of tea you can try something out and augment difficulty that way. There is still a lot of negativity and pessimism surrounding WoW but I think one of the reasons we are seeing a resurgence in it's overall popularity is them moving away from the chore snore they used to do where you felt punished for not playing a certain way week after week, and now... sure if you are absolutely min maxing that exists somewhat, but it's no where near like where it was and even if you (or I) don't enjoy M+, the game gives you other progression paths and ways to gear and play the game. I think with even more iteration and development this design will really bolster WoW's future success imo
I was just complaining about this. I'm new to retail(3 weeks in) and still haven't done mythic 0 let alone +, as a tank setting up a group to get my first key I'd have healers leave w/o saying why, turns out I'm not the best spec for mythic +... Okay sure change spec do some research swap spec, still have healers leave after invite, turns out I'm also "under geared"...okay I'm 597 hitting a brick wall so to get more gear from mythics i have to be geared past them as a tank or healers just won't want to go... So i gave up! Stuck to delves just going to farm vault upgrades till I'm full 606 to then "try" to do a mythic 0.... And before anyone asks "why don't you just join a group you are a tank?", well i also don't have this rating number everyone wants so insta-decline or kick... TLDR: players gate keep even the non-timed versions of mythic to the point that any other content is just more convenient to do. How can this be fixed? I honestly don't think it can be, we have delves now. I think blizzard should embrace the Mythic + as a speed runner type deal, don't reward loot but give a rating and a vender like pvp that unlocks more stuff the higher your rating. wont have to farm them just get the rating each season buy all the rewards and move on, if you want it to reward loot can give it something in the weekly vault or some other currency?. I don't think there is a perfect solution and one of them are going to change, and I personally hope they don't remove or change delves later on.
So i did mythic raiding for cutting edge for the first time in TWW, returning to retail raiding after about 10 years. And i absolutely abhorred mythic+. I just want to raid, why am I being forced to interface with this other thing to be competitive in a separate activity that I want to do? Why is it required to stay competitive in ilvl? Its fun for the people who enjoy it, and for everyone else its just mandatory chores and busywork, nothing else. Locking BIS raiding gear behind a non-raiding gamemode just to force players to interact with it just feels like they want it to seem more popular than it is.. and yeah.. bricking keys or having leavers and feeling like you wasted your time when you don't even want to be doing it in the first place.. its just not a healthy system in my opinion. And at first you had to do 10s for mythic vault slots, and 9+ for gilded crests. When they eventually dropped it to 7+ for gilded, I never ran a higher key unless i needed vault. I know a lot of people who did the same. Ive heard its the most popular activity in WoW but I'm actually kinda curious if thats true. I think the minority in my guild were pushing high keys and the majority only did the exact number required to cap gilded and vault slots.
I agree with just about everything you said. The one thing I'd have to say is that, based on my experience, the punishment is bad. But not nearly as bad as it could be. I remember mmos where if you died you lost a level, and you could continue to lose levels. Or respawning naked and having do a corpse to get your items back. Which only stay around for a few days. So. Yeah. Mythic+ compared to that... Not so bad. However, mechanics are VASTLY more complicated than they were back then.
thats what kicked me out of retail wow and keep playing FFXIV, FF is a lot more new player friendly on high end content (and i have 1600 rating on m+), in wow if you dont play the meta spec u dont get invited, is just how that works XD
In a practical sense FF just doesn't have "meta specs" because everyone plays the same spec automatically by picking a job. It's kind of a "at least you won't be gatekept for not playing a build" but at the same time a "but you don't get any choices in how your character plays" issue. I consider it neither positive nor negative.
I view it as a lateral move, FF14 lacks variety and breadth in it's job design whereas Blizz struggles with achieving good balance (something FF14 has been also messing up lately funnily enough) and can be very selective in content that is designed to be punishing. People don't want to waste their time and want to hedge their bets on what will likely get them a successful performance hence Raider IO rating and picking meta specs because they raise your chances of success when both taken into account otherwise people wouldn't use them. At the end of the day, it's up to Blizz to design around player mentality, and with there now being 3 end game pillars for PVE endgame, they can let them be their own thing and target specific audiences.
Mullsy I’m not gonna lie to you, I don’t understand any of the words you’re saying in this video, but I will continue to watch the content you put out, whether I understand it or not
Sometimes i get rly confused on they way some people play this game , i mean i see many people saying they dont do m+ etc etc wtf you do in this game then?? Im pretty casual player and im near 3k rating i rather prefer to do a couple m+ keys per day than pugging to a raid that yes its a fcking nightmare to me
Not liking M+ (and not playing it either) while literally showing a dungeon in the video. 😂 And there is actually quite a lot wrong about your assumptions about the game mode. A delve for example is way more punishing than M+ since you need to start all over in a delve after 1 or 2 wipes. An M+ dungeon you can go on and on and on and on. You are never getting kicked out. It ends when you decide it is enough. You can wipe forever, pull again forever, and when you finally get to the end you get your reward.
The most terrible thing is that u don't even have quests or something that leads to an m+, and u just see it from elsewhere, not from ingame npc saying "hey look its competitive pve mode", after that a newbie enters m0 that is absolute joke just from questing u get gear that is enough to close it without a sweat, then u enter a +2 or +4 or higher when u can't just run and hit, u need to start doing mechanics, and oh boy if u don't have addons that tell u what to do (even with them installed ppl still don't know what to do) good luck figuring it out, if u are dps u die u lack damage and maybe u will be the reason why ur party won't time the key, and it much worse for tank and healers cause the key will be ruined on the spot, and most of the times ppl will just leave or leave with toxicity, and that scares a lot of ppl, so the most problem for m+ is not even its awful design (i closed all 15+ as a tank this season and its dumpster fire trash, its never ever been so fucking bad), but its just have no introduction no begginner tutorials or whatever, they just drop you straight into the hole and you expected to know everything and do everything properly
I think it doesn't help that the closest to a queue for a dungeon you can get right now is heroic and with the way TWW is structured... you never do them unless you are REALLY farming renown, because the gear is trash and they are way too much of a cakewalk. If there was a harder version of the dungeons that was queueable like heroic but not as hard as Mythic+ (maybe M0?) and let it reward decentish gear for alts (up for debate on this issue but maybe something akin to what normal catchup gear is or even slightly better) while being an ok challenge could be good for alts but also people who just want to learn the dungeons. Maybe give players a key as well to introduce the concept of what a key is. IDK just spitballing but I think something can and should be done about that introductory experience, because M+ needs a better onboarding process imo
@@JMulls yeah but more of tutorial needed to understand the concept its not just dps are doing damage heal heals and tank brainlessly running into mobs, and about free key, u talk to funny panda and she gives u a random +2
The timer becomes relevant from like +12'. They are so lenient i do not understand why people are coming up with that. In a +2 you can have lunch in between and still be on time. They are almost the same as a heroic dungeon and people spam those in less than 10 minutes. The timers are 30+ minutes. Just have less than 20 minutes lunch.
ppl like you are the reason i quit wow. theres a challenge OH NO! i dont want to build a group of ppl to play with i dont want to learn my class and the dungeons i just want my free EPICS with no downside crybaby more plz....
It's meant to be unappealing, encouraging people to buy Blizzard tokens with money to exchange for gold to purchase carries. Why else would Blizzard allow carries for gold?
This season is good, no annoying affixes, just stat changes. And the one affix there is, it REWARDS you for doing it, and PUNISHES you for failing it.
The big down side is at 12, affix goes away. And also the 15s death penalty is absolutely ass. Not only did the HP reset on what ever killed you, but your CDs are gone, AND you just lost 75s on the timer, on top of walking back, and engaging again.
The aspect that keeps me from even trying M+ is the wow community itself. And there's really not much blizz can do about that sadly.
People will be strict and selective when the punishment for failure is severe, if they relent and let up on the punishing design while continuing to work on better smoothing out the difficulty curve I think it would let up somewhat as time goes on.
actually, they can. They can create an environment that encourages stay in the dungeon till the end, trying again with the same group, etc. If the key is allowed to redone without depletion, players will be more willing to restart with the same people and try again. If the rewards are correct, the more people will be willing to stay and finish, which encourages learning the dungeon.
That's a funny joke
I think its crazy to claim that only m+ has new player problem. I am new to the game and every aspect that is mandatory to be done with other players is highly unwelcoming, I pray to god they expand on delves.
I'm personally loving the current mythic + in TWW, mainly because I hardcore raided in classic TBC/WoTLK. And was pretty burnt out by the release of classic cata. All the talks of groups insta leaving can easily be prevented by just communication, owning up to your mistakes, forgiving of others mistakes.
You have a really spot-on breakdown of why people tend avoid M+ altogether, and it only goes to show that M+ has the potential to be a fundamentally more postive, rewarding system that (hopefully lol) brews a less toxic community!
I would love to have an NPC at The Timeways that allows you to choose the dungeon and dungeon lvl you want to your key to be (similarly to delves).
When it comes to depletion, I think they should add a catch-up achievement that makes it so when you complete all dungeons at a certain level, keys no longer deplete past that point. I figure it's working with something that's already confirmed to be in the game, so adding it in for lower levels wouldn't be hard.
Great video!
Honestly, main reason why i dont play M+ is because of the community. Its not just the bad game design, there is something going on with people since for some reason negative people are drawn there in droves... similarly how in real life certain archetypes of people are drawn to certain professions. I like playing MMOs because it feels like world is alive but that doesnt mean i like to depend on mercy of toxic people or be forced to play certain content if i want to progress... WoW needs progression path for single players. It might sound strange for a game that is all about grouping up, but it will actually be better for both parties if someone isnt forced to do what they dont want to. A player who hates M+ but does it because they have to will end up being a burden to those who want to play m+.
I recently returned to wow after I quit in Shadowlands. I have not tried m+ in TWW yet so I can not talk about TWW specifics, but I was a CE raider and m+ player before I quit. From my old experience, I like the timed aspect of m+ but the depletion system needs to go. Imo M+ were the most fun back in Legion when every pack did not have 50 things you needed to pay attention to so we could do insanely big pulls. There was always a meta but you could still complete really high levels with any set-up as long as you were coordinating well. Nowadays some levels are just impossible without a specific team set-up. This bringing back old dungeons for m+ also needs to go. Some of those old dungeons were not made with m+ in mind so they just do not work well in an m+ environment. I would also prefer it if the level and dungeon select were more like the delves. Instead of relying on a key, let me go to a dungeon and select the level.
Okay i disagree.
There are a few important things you are forgetting:
- You are comparing delves with M+, and saying you can go to a lower tier delve for smooth progression. M+ does have this! Normal dungeons, heroic dungeons, Mythic dungeons; this are the places where you can learn to do the dungeon, without any big punishment for failing. M+ isnt made to learn the dungeon, its a challenge mode, a challenge mode delve is also very hard if you dont know the delve.
You can say that m+ is the highest level of dungeon mode, what would compare it to a tier 8+ Delve or mythic raiding. You dont start as a new player in a tier 8 delve or in a mythic raid. You start with a lower tier delve or LFR/normal raid.
- What can happen in m+ when you remove the "your key is lower when you fail": You start the run, someone makes a mistake; we replace the person and start again. Thats how the toxic people will handle it.
- You can make friends! Nobody is forcing you to pug every time, find people so you can learn together. People leave you because you dont have the same exp. All challenges with multiple players require good communication.
- The punishments are sometimes to hard, that is true, but again, its a challenge mode, if you cant focus for 30 min, maybe you shouldnt have started the key. Keep in mind, that in a raid, people dont like it when everyone have to wait for 1 person, people want to play the game. Being AFK is always negative in group content.
- If you remove some of these punishments, you remove the challenge. If you remove the timer, you will create 5 man raiding.
M+ needs some of its frustrations, or the mode isn't special anymore.
So yes M+ isn't made for new players. You need some knowledge before you enter the system and the game is bad at informing new players what the best way is to grow in the system.
I don't mind lower level mythic plus cause then I can avoid the affixes i hate that just boost health and damage. But I dont really do them because I don't like having a timer, simple as that. Without a timer, I wouldn't mind doing these more.
And if they were to update them to be more like delves. Give us lives but no timer, and if we fail, we can try again the same dungeon at the same level.
I am like you and do not enjoy punishing games like the Souls games. Probably a reason why I don't like mythic plus all that much. I never really thought of it that way before, so that's neat
It's a concept that I think is far more intertwined with why certain games blow up in popularity compared to others imo. I think one of the reasons Elden Ring blew up so much for Fromsoft is because it largely abandoned the punishing mechanics that the older games were kind of known for, namely run backs. They are still there but FAR less severe and more often than not they just respawn you right outside the boss room instead of 5 min away, and the game gives you a bunch of different options for builds so if one playstyle isn't your cup of tea you can try something out and augment difficulty that way.
There is still a lot of negativity and pessimism surrounding WoW but I think one of the reasons we are seeing a resurgence in it's overall popularity is them moving away from the chore snore they used to do where you felt punished for not playing a certain way week after week, and now... sure if you are absolutely min maxing that exists somewhat, but it's no where near like where it was and even if you (or I) don't enjoy M+, the game gives you other progression paths and ways to gear and play the game. I think with even more iteration and development this design will really bolster WoW's future success imo
I was just complaining about this. I'm new to retail(3 weeks in) and still haven't done mythic 0 let alone +, as a tank setting up a group to get my first key I'd have healers leave w/o saying why, turns out I'm not the best spec for mythic +... Okay sure change spec do some research swap spec, still have healers leave after invite, turns out I'm also "under geared"...okay I'm 597 hitting a brick wall so to get more gear from mythics i have to be geared past them as a tank or healers just won't want to go... So i gave up! Stuck to delves just going to farm vault upgrades till I'm full 606 to then "try" to do a mythic 0.... And before anyone asks "why don't you just join a group you are a tank?", well i also don't have this rating number everyone wants so insta-decline or kick...
TLDR: players gate keep even the non-timed versions of mythic to the point that any other content is just more convenient to do.
How can this be fixed? I honestly don't think it can be, we have delves now. I think blizzard should embrace the Mythic + as a speed runner type deal, don't reward loot but give a rating and a vender like pvp that unlocks more stuff the higher your rating. wont have to farm them just get the rating each season buy all the rewards and move on, if you want it to reward loot can give it something in the weekly vault or some other currency?. I don't think there is a perfect solution and one of them are going to change, and I personally hope they don't remove or change delves later on.
So i did mythic raiding for cutting edge for the first time in TWW, returning to retail raiding after about 10 years. And i absolutely abhorred mythic+.
I just want to raid, why am I being forced to interface with this other thing to be competitive in a separate activity that I want to do? Why is it required to stay competitive in ilvl?
Its fun for the people who enjoy it, and for everyone else its just mandatory chores and busywork, nothing else.
Locking BIS raiding gear behind a non-raiding gamemode just to force players to interact with it just feels like they want it to seem more popular than it is.. and yeah.. bricking keys or having leavers and feeling like you wasted your time when you don't even want to be doing it in the first place.. its just not a healthy system in my opinion. And at first you had to do 10s for mythic vault slots, and 9+ for gilded crests. When they eventually dropped it to 7+ for gilded, I never ran a higher key unless i needed vault. I know a lot of people who did the same. Ive heard its the most popular activity in WoW but I'm actually kinda curious if thats true. I think the minority in my guild were pushing high keys and the majority only did the exact number required to cap gilded and vault slots.
I agree with just about everything you said. The one thing I'd have to say is that, based on my experience, the punishment is bad. But not nearly as bad as it could be. I remember mmos where if you died you lost a level, and you could continue to lose levels. Or respawning naked and having do a corpse to get your items back. Which only stay around for a few days. So. Yeah. Mythic+ compared to that... Not so bad. However, mechanics are VASTLY more complicated than they were back then.
I play classic or a mop private solely because I don't want to do mythic+, shit is so cancer
Literally sat in a queue yesterday for 3 hours it was unreal, got in and they left cause they died
thats what kicked me out of retail wow and keep playing FFXIV, FF is a lot more new player friendly on high end content (and i have 1600 rating on m+), in wow if you dont play the meta spec u dont get invited, is just how that works XD
In a practical sense FF just doesn't have "meta specs" because everyone plays the same spec automatically by picking a job. It's kind of a "at least you won't be gatekept for not playing a build" but at the same time a "but you don't get any choices in how your character plays" issue. I consider it neither positive nor negative.
I view it as a lateral move, FF14 lacks variety and breadth in it's job design whereas Blizz struggles with achieving good balance (something FF14 has been also messing up lately funnily enough) and can be very selective in content that is designed to be punishing. People don't want to waste their time and want to hedge their bets on what will likely get them a successful performance hence Raider IO rating and picking meta specs because they raise your chances of success when both taken into account otherwise people wouldn't use them.
At the end of the day, it's up to Blizz to design around player mentality, and with there now being 3 end game pillars for PVE endgame, they can let them be their own thing and target specific audiences.
Mullsy I’m not gonna lie to you, I don’t understand any of the words you’re saying in this video, but I will continue to watch the content you put out, whether I understand it or not
Sometimes i get rly confused on they way some people play this game , i mean i see many people saying they dont do m+ etc etc wtf you do in this game then?? Im pretty casual player and im near 3k rating i rather prefer to do a couple m+ keys per day than pugging to a raid that yes its a fcking nightmare to me
Not liking M+ (and not playing it either) while literally showing a dungeon in the video. 😂 And there is actually quite a lot wrong about your assumptions about the game mode. A delve for example is way more punishing than M+ since you need to start all over in a delve after 1 or 2 wipes. An M+ dungeon you can go on and on and on and on. You are never getting kicked out. It ends when you decide it is enough. You can wipe forever, pull again forever, and when you finally get to the end you get your reward.
Also you did the outro twice idk if you meant to leave that in
nuh uh (im editing it out now so this will eventually look correct)
@ Okie dokie just making sure
The most terrible thing is that u don't even have quests or something that leads to an m+, and u just see it from elsewhere, not from ingame npc saying "hey look its competitive pve mode", after that a newbie enters m0 that is absolute joke just from questing u get gear that is enough to close it without a sweat, then u enter a +2 or +4 or higher when u can't just run and hit, u need to start doing mechanics, and oh boy if u don't have addons that tell u what to do (even with them installed ppl still don't know what to do) good luck figuring it out, if u are dps u die u lack damage and maybe u will be the reason why ur party won't time the key, and it much worse for tank and healers cause the key will be ruined on the spot, and most of the times ppl will just leave or leave with toxicity, and that scares a lot of ppl, so the most problem for m+ is not even its awful design (i closed all 15+ as a tank this season and its dumpster fire trash, its never ever been so fucking bad), but its just have no introduction no begginner tutorials or whatever, they just drop you straight into the hole and you expected to know everything and do everything properly
I think it doesn't help that the closest to a queue for a dungeon you can get right now is heroic and with the way TWW is structured... you never do them unless you are REALLY farming renown, because the gear is trash and they are way too much of a cakewalk. If there was a harder version of the dungeons that was queueable like heroic but not as hard as Mythic+ (maybe M0?) and let it reward decentish gear for alts (up for debate on this issue but maybe something akin to what normal catchup gear is or even slightly better) while being an ok challenge could be good for alts but also people who just want to learn the dungeons. Maybe give players a key as well to introduce the concept of what a key is. IDK just spitballing but I think something can and should be done about that introductory experience, because M+ needs a better onboarding process imo
@@JMulls yeah but more of tutorial needed to understand the concept its not just dps are doing damage heal heals and tank brainlessly running into mobs, and about free key, u talk to funny panda and she gives u a random +2
Mythic+ could be awesome... the timer ruins it. Just wront incentives.
The timer becomes relevant from like +12'. They are so lenient i do not understand why people are coming up with that. In a +2 you can have lunch in between and still be on time. They are almost the same as a heroic dungeon and people spam those in less than 10 minutes. The timers are 30+ minutes. Just have less than 20 minutes lunch.
ppl like you are the reason i quit wow.
theres a challenge OH NO!
i dont want to build a group of ppl to play with
i dont want to learn my class and the dungeons
i just want my free EPICS with no downside
crybaby more plz....
completely missed the point of the vid
It's meant to be unappealing, encouraging people to buy Blizzard tokens with money to exchange for gold to purchase carries. Why else would Blizzard allow carries for gold?
it's a player problem and the failure behavior of 98% of the guilds. The control of the elites of the game goes on and on.....nothing going to change