Wow! Thank you for your work! Very clear descriptions and graphics! I want to understand BVR better for a time now, but this is the first time I found a video that wraps it up in such a good way.
Excellent video. I like how you showed how to use the SA page to readjust the radar to the correct altitude. As a I'm just learning Air to Air, that was something I was struggling with.
What you say is Pumping is actually dragging. Pumping is similar in that you want to fly away, but the important part is that a pump has the intent to reengage.
I believe dragging is specific to bandits, and pumping is for friendlies. Similar to tally Vs visual. If you have a source or example though, please link it so I can see
@@DCSWithLovo PUMP - [A/A] A briefed maneuver to minimize closure on the threat or geographical boundary with the intent to reengage. DRAG [cardinal direction] - [A/A] Contact aspect stabilized at 0- 60 degrees angle from tail or 120-180 degrees angle from nose. ATP 1-02.1 Controller: “RAPTOR 1, NORTH GROUP RANGE SEPARATION 10 OPENING, TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND, DRAG WEST, HOSTILE.” On the topic, as I understand, pumping is more like a tactical retreat. Maybe you have backup you want to rejoin with before engaging, or maybe your ROE states you can't cross a border so you want to back up a bit before engaging. While Skating as I see it is more of an active tactic similar to Kiting (gaming term). - Amazing video though! I'll definitely be recommending this to people.
About Cranking, i personaly like to do double Cranks, meaning i turn to one side for a regular crank and then reverse my turn and turn to the oposite side for a second crank, this gives me an oportunity to fire another missile for a second as my nose points at the enemy and will drain more energy of the missiles launched at me, aswell as ensure that if the enemy fired a missile after my first crank this will lose a substantial amount of energy in the manouver.
Thanks John! I'll cover this in a missile defence video, and you may already know, but this works best with the missile close in. When it's at range it will barely need to turn more than a few degrees to compensate for the reversal.
Intuitively makes sense, but doesn't work in BVR. You're basically closing in a straight line then (see what blue did around 18:45). Pick a side, and keep to it. If you turn back in for a second shot, turn back to the side you were pointing before. Or, usually safer and more advisable, go cold / pump
2 years and ive only now found this GEM ! great video, simple visuals and no crazy amount of details like some others ! PDF version would be handy for a kneeboard !
Really Really well done video. So helpful for Visual learners like myself. I humbly request a similar Vid, but for outnumbered situation. Often I find myself flying Solo and being jumped by 2 ships, or multiple groups that have a speed advantage, so running is not always possible.
Hi Dave. Thanks for the kind words, glad you found it useful. I tend to bounce around between subjects, but next time I hit BVR I'll be looking at group V group, perhaps after that! However I'll initially say this is one of the tough bits of DCS, IRL you would rarely put yourself in a 1 V group because of how much of a disadvantage you would be at, but it does happen in DCS. I'd suggest low notching to be as hard to hit/find as possible, use terrain masking if possible. Try to get within Rne and TWS them all, skate when possible and run while they're defending haha. But avoid where possible.
@@DCSWithLovo Agreed it would never happen IRL. On my main server I am usually alone and they come at me in pairs. Till now I have been doing basically what you suggest. Glad I am on the right track. Keep up the Great Vids!
Seen this being linked in a fb discussion about BFM, somebody must've mixed things up.. good stuff, although the rivet counter in me urges me to tell you that the R in LAR stands for Region, not Range.. since, you know, Rmin and Rmax and all :)
@@DCSWithLovo - seems okay now Was listening on my Bluetooth on the drive in today and it cut out for several seconds. the video was rolling on - in silence...
If you referring to 1:23 then I labelled both areas to show them in relation to one another. BVR is when you can't see a target with your eyes, WVR is when you can.
@@DCSWithLovo I figured it out! I interpreted "somewhere between 5 - 7 nmi" as the BVR range. Thats the BEGINNING of the range, then it goes out from there. If anyone else got confused, hopefully this helps. Subscribed~
i guess the guy flying the f-14 had absolutely no idea what he was doing and should have won the fight if he hadnt trashed every single one of his misiles 21:46
Very great tutorial! One question; in a situation of performance disadvantage like F-18 vs. F-16 (reverse of example 1) what would be the best tactic to use? The hornet did appear to use posturing shots, maybe they just didn’t defend enough to dodge your shot to close the gap and get a more lethal attack, but I find myself in similar situations against the F-16 constantly where the range of their high probability kill missiles is 15+ miles more than mine, or even approaching my Rmax
it's a tricky one, so many variables. It helps to know your enemy and their relative performance differences. Do you have better SA? better sensors? better missiles? How do you maximise your advantages and minimise your drawbacks? You have the same weapon as the F-16 in a hornet, the AMRAAM. They do have an advantage with height and speed, so make sure you drop your fuel tanks and get supersonic as soon as you can. this usually means climbing to the high 20s at high subsonic, then diving through transonic, and climbing at +1.2 mach. If you really need to draw them in close then there's nothing like some mountains to hide behind. if they can threaten you with an AMRAAM, then you can threaten them with one, just not to the same level of threat. practice against AI with how hard you have to defend to trash a missile at a given distance, and at what range you have a high chance of death. Then this is your min abort range, or MAR. Never trespass the MAR if they can shoot at you
Great Vidéo ! Thank you very much. What is the gimbal limit of the F/A-18C's radar ? I thought it was around 65°, but at 24:13, you are still locking the F-14 at 136° ! Is this a bug ?
Not sure if it's a bug, but my impression was the hornet's system will keep an INS track of the last known position of the target. You can try it by locking a target then turning the radar to stand by. The hud td box will stay on the target, but the longer you wait and the more you maneuver, the more it drifts
@@DCSWithLovo I understand. (I don't have the F-18 so I can't check.) This requires testing or reading the manual to confirm. If it's correct, it's a great feature !
All radars go to memory mode when target is lost, after few seconds the radar can be switched to "boom" mode (westerns is FLOOD) where radar will continue emitting signal straight forward without lock, hoping that target is inside the cone, and missile see reflection and homes in to it. You can't crank with active missile, as missile gets outside your radar scan zone and can't receive datalink updates anymore even from sidelobes. At that moment missile is lost and independent, flying to last calculated intercept point to activate radar and expect target be found in 5 seconds, after that missile starts own search pattern to scan larger area ahead to find something. With Hornet the gimbal limit is 60 degrees + ½ beam width. As gimbal scan limit is 120 degrees (+/-60). In a modern Su-27 they have gimbal range 220°, so +/- 110° and they can beam you and fly in notch, while still track you and guide their missile to you. As well since the begin, Su-27's and MiG-29's have capability to buddy guide wingman shot missile. Happening so that wingman drops 10-20 km further back, or fly with gimbal limit. Lead will push aggressively forward while gaining altitude for NEZ launch, sucking all the launches at him, then launch own missile, go vertical down and cold, escaping and perfectly rendering every missile shot at it. Meanwhile wingman at far behind is in safe and guides missile in. When opposition is forced to evade, wingman and lead switch parts, wingman becomes lead and push forward, while lead becomes wingman and supports lead. This is done until reached to WVR and R-73's are taken in use, when enemy starts to fall.
Ah I see! Good question. I just asked them to do their best. Hard to know exactly what he was thinking as bvr is so dynamic. The focus should hopefully be on my tactics rather than the bandits
I think this is the best bvr tutorial out there
Thanks Brylinx
Fantastic. Thanks. Hidden gem.
Thanks, glad you liked it
Incredible tutorial. Super easy to understand and very helpful
I was watching many bvr explanations videos. And this one is the best. Every lack of other video aren't present in it.
Thanks Love for this work.
Thanks Serginio! Glad you liked it
Wow! Thank you for your work! Very clear descriptions and graphics!
I want to understand BVR better for a time now, but this is the first time I found a video that wraps it up in such a good way.
Thanks rhinozherous! Glad you liked it
Awesome tutorial. thisnis puro gold
I absolutely love this kind of content keep them coming please Lovo!!!
Thanks Billy! I'll do my best
instaBlaster.
Excellent video. I like how you showed how to use the SA page to readjust the radar to the correct altitude. As a I'm just learning Air to Air, that was something I was struggling with.
Yeah you want to waste as little time as possible when you turn hot again, as the range will be decreasing. You'll soon be back in the
Disgustingly good stuff !
Thanks Kelly!
What you say is Pumping is actually dragging. Pumping is similar in that you want to fly away, but the important part is that a pump has the intent to reengage.
I believe dragging is specific to bandits, and pumping is for friendlies. Similar to tally Vs visual.
If you have a source or example though, please link it so I can see
@@DCSWithLovo
PUMP - [A/A] A briefed maneuver to minimize closure on the threat or geographical boundary with the intent to reengage.
DRAG [cardinal direction] - [A/A] Contact aspect stabilized at 0- 60 degrees angle from tail or 120-180 degrees angle from nose.
ATP 1-02.1
Controller: “RAPTOR 1, NORTH GROUP RANGE SEPARATION 10 OPENING, TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND, DRAG WEST, HOSTILE.”
On the topic, as I understand, pumping is more like a tactical retreat. Maybe you have backup you want to rejoin with before engaging, or maybe your ROE states you can't cross a border so you want to back up a bit before engaging.
While Skating as I see it is more of an active tactic similar to Kiting (gaming term).
- Amazing video though! I'll definitely be recommending this to people.
Thanks for the info I'll dig out the document and give it a read!
And thanks for the kind words
Thank you, this is an amazingly clear explanation!
Thanks Joel!
About Cranking, i personaly like to do double Cranks, meaning i turn to one side for a regular crank and then reverse my turn and turn to the oposite side for a second crank, this gives me an oportunity to fire another missile for a second as my nose points at the enemy and will drain more energy of the missiles launched at me, aswell as ensure that if the enemy fired a missile after my first crank this will lose a substantial amount of energy in the manouver.
Thanks John!
I'll cover this in a missile defence video, and you may already know, but this works best with the missile close in. When it's at range it will barely need to turn more than a few degrees to compensate for the reversal.
Intuitively makes sense, but doesn't work in BVR. You're basically closing in a straight line then (see what blue did around 18:45). Pick a side, and keep to it. If you turn back in for a second shot, turn back to the side you were pointing before. Or, usually safer and more advisable, go cold / pump
This video is gold
I love it when you give me a long one.
back in the old days when the F-16 could TWS a target 80 miles away... :). Now it's like 40nm :)
Hard mode!
Subscribed.
You are amazing
Thanks!
2 years and ive only now found this GEM ! great video, simple visuals and no crazy amount of details like some others !
PDF version would be handy for a kneeboard !
#crazyrussianpilot :-> Awesome video!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
amazing video, great work!!
Thanks!
Really Really well done video. So helpful for Visual learners like myself. I humbly request a similar Vid, but for outnumbered situation. Often I find myself flying Solo and being jumped by 2 ships, or multiple groups that have a speed advantage, so running is not always possible.
Hi Dave. Thanks for the kind words, glad you found it useful. I tend to bounce around between subjects, but next time I hit BVR I'll be looking at group V group, perhaps after that! However I'll initially say this is one of the tough bits of DCS, IRL you would rarely put yourself in a 1 V group because of how much of a disadvantage you would be at, but it does happen in DCS. I'd suggest low notching to be as hard to hit/find as possible, use terrain masking if possible. Try to get within Rne and TWS them all, skate when possible and run while they're defending haha. But avoid where possible.
@@DCSWithLovo Agreed it would never happen IRL. On my main server I am usually alone and they come at me in pairs. Till now I have been doing basically what you suggest. Glad I am on the right track. Keep up the Great Vids!
Cleared it all up! Thanks homie!
Great video!
Thank you!
Seen this being linked in a fb discussion about BFM, somebody must've mixed things up.. good stuff, although the rivet counter in me urges me to tell you that the R in LAR stands for Region, not Range.. since, you know, Rmin and Rmax and all :)
That's a rivet well counted, ha. Yeah not bfm, but I'm happy to be linked. I'll no doubt be covering it eventually
Great content, keep it up!
Thanks, hopefully I'm improving a bit every video...
21:21 what does the "limit" do for the RWR?
Limits the number of radars it will display. Just a smaller number of priority radars. Useful when the airspace is busy
@@DCSWithLovo Thanks for the reply. I’m a professional rookie and been flying for about a year in the 18. Still learning lol
There's loads to learn. Keep having fun
you should give credit where credits are due... CNATRA?
CNATRA and a couple other docs yeah
Is there something wrong with the audio?? I'm at 2:30 and the voice cuts in and out.
Hey there, 2:00-3:00 sounds ok to me, let me know if you pinpoint it
@@DCSWithLovo - seems okay now
Was listening on my Bluetooth on the drive in today and it cut out for several seconds. the video was rolling on - in silence...
So is "beyond visual range" actually "within visual range"? Because... that picture shows my visual range with BVR labled...?
If you referring to 1:23 then I labelled both areas to show them in relation to one another. BVR is when you can't see a target with your eyes, WVR is when you can.
@@DCSWithLovo Ok i think i just confused a couple topics at that point
No probs!
@@DCSWithLovo I figured it out! I interpreted "somewhere between 5 - 7 nmi" as the BVR range. Thats the BEGINNING of the range, then it goes out from there. If anyone else got confused, hopefully this helps. Subscribed~
Johnson Scott Jackson Edward Gonzalez Paul
Great work but... it's potatoes , meat and potatoes, not gravey.
Ha, right you are
i guess the guy flying the f-14 had absolutely no idea what he was doing and should have won the fight if he hadnt trashed every single one of his misiles 21:46
Excellent video!!!!!
Thanks Jorge!
top vid! 👍🏻
how do you „yellow box“ the boogie on the sa-page?
I think there's two ways, but the one I know is to press STEP until the desired data link aircraft is boxed
@@DCSWithLovo thx pilot
No probs, happy flying!
Great video! Thanks!!
What is the yellow box around the target on the SA page at 22:59 and how did you bring it up?
So I've "selected" a data link contact. You can hover the cursor over something to see that info, or hit step to cycle through all contacts
@@DCSWithLovo cool. I only knew the hovering method and missed the STEP option. Does it only work for datalink members or also for bandits?
It works for anything airborne on the sa page I believe. Bit of a pain if you have a lot of contacts
@@DCSWithLovo Thank you. I’ll try it
Very great tutorial! One question; in a situation of performance disadvantage like F-18 vs. F-16 (reverse of example 1) what would be the best tactic to use? The hornet did appear to use posturing shots, maybe they just didn’t defend enough to dodge your shot to close the gap and get a more lethal attack, but I find myself in similar situations against the F-16 constantly where the range of their high probability kill missiles is 15+ miles more than mine, or even approaching my Rmax
it's a tricky one, so many variables. It helps to know your enemy and their relative performance differences.
Do you have better SA? better sensors? better missiles?
How do you maximise your advantages and minimise your drawbacks?
You have the same weapon as the F-16 in a hornet, the AMRAAM. They do have an advantage with height and speed, so make sure you drop your fuel tanks and get supersonic as soon as you can. this usually means climbing to the high 20s at high subsonic, then diving through transonic, and climbing at +1.2 mach.
If you really need to draw them in close then there's nothing like some mountains to hide behind.
if they can threaten you with an AMRAAM, then you can threaten them with one, just not to the same level of threat.
practice against AI with how hard you have to defend to trash a missile at a given distance, and at what range you have a high chance of death. Then this is your min abort range, or MAR. Never trespass the MAR if they can shoot at you
Thanks very much, very informative
Glad you enjoyed it
Great Vidéo ! Thank you very much.
What is the gimbal limit of the F/A-18C's radar ? I thought it was around 65°, but at 24:13, you are still locking the F-14 at 136° ! Is this a bug ?
Not sure if it's a bug, but my impression was the hornet's system will keep an INS track of the last known position of the target.
You can try it by locking a target then turning the radar to stand by. The hud td box will stay on the target, but the longer you wait and the more you maneuver, the more it drifts
@@DCSWithLovo I understand. (I don't have the F-18 so I can't check.) This requires testing or reading the manual to confirm.
If it's correct, it's a great feature !
All radars go to memory mode when target is lost, after few seconds the radar can be switched to "boom" mode (westerns is FLOOD) where radar will continue emitting signal straight forward without lock, hoping that target is inside the cone, and missile see reflection and homes in to it.
You can't crank with active missile, as missile gets outside your radar scan zone and can't receive datalink updates anymore even from sidelobes. At that moment missile is lost and independent, flying to last calculated intercept point to activate radar and expect target be found in 5 seconds, after that missile starts own search pattern to scan larger area ahead to find something.
With Hornet the gimbal limit is 60 degrees + ½ beam width. As gimbal scan limit is 120 degrees (+/-60).
In a modern Su-27 they have gimbal range 220°, so +/- 110° and they can beam you and fly in notch, while still track you and guide their missile to you.
As well since the begin, Su-27's and MiG-29's have capability to buddy guide wingman shot missile. Happening so that wingman drops 10-20 km further back, or fly with gimbal limit. Lead will push aggressively forward while gaining altitude for NEZ launch, sucking all the launches at him, then launch own missile, go vertical down and cold, escaping and perfectly rendering every missile shot at it. Meanwhile wingman at far behind is in safe and guides missile in. When opposition is forced to evade, wingman and lead switch parts, wingman becomes lead and push forward, while lead becomes wingman and supports lead.
This is done until reached to WVR and R-73's are taken in use, when enemy starts to fall.
that f18's RWR was not turned on?
In the examples? It was turned on. You can see the repeated symbology on the HUD
@@DCSWithLovo i mean around, th-cam.com/video/01AWyGcIxF4/w-d-xo.html
Ah I see! Good question. I just asked them to do their best. Hard to know exactly what he was thinking as bvr is so dynamic.
The focus should hopefully be on my tactics rather than the bandits
@@DCSWithLovo Thanks , & very good video