Lead Architect For PS5 Says He's Surprised About 60fps Games. Also Calls Out A Linus Tech Tips Video
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- It's not often we hear from the longtime games industry veteran Mark Cerny. Having a 42 year career in games starting at Atari, he's nowadays more well known for being the system architect for PS4, PS Vita, and PS5. And recently he did an interview discussing the console business, things that surprised him about PS5 so far, and even references a recent Linus Tech Tips video. Anytime Mark talks, we gotta go over it. So that's what we do in this discussion! Mark, if you're watching this (I do not expect that to ever happen) but what's up! Let me interview you sometime. I don't even want to monetize it, I'd just happily pick your brain on monotonous topics.
Mark Cerny GamesIndustry.biz Interview Link:
www.gamesindustry.biz/mark-ce...
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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Intro, Cerny's Background, Personal Gaming Habits
1:51 - What Has Surprised Cerny So Far About This Console Generation
2:48 - Why Games Take So Long To Make
4:31 - Cerny Says They Aren't Making Low Cost PC's
5:23 - Cerny Responds To Linus Tech Tips Video
6:00 - Will Mark Retire Anytime Soon?
7:29 - Why Mark Cerny Is So Important To PlayStation
8:24 - The 60fps Console Discussion
10:15 - Discussing The Linus Video / Low Cost PC Comment
#PS5 #PlayStation5 #Sony - เกม
![Did Sony Pay For Another Third Party Exclusive? This Controversial PS5 Game Is.. Good? - [LTPS #628]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dH9EDNk5_gI/mqdefault.jpg)
60FPS should be an industry standard by now
120 actually
@@ps4games164 Def not 120. No PC can run Cyberpunk with ray-tracing at 4K 120, even with DLSS 3. That's just being ridiculous, and nobody needs 120 frames per second.
@@kingsfan2512For all but the most demanding games it should be 120
@@KepleroGTSo, less than 5% of AAA, and below. Which is what's happening anyway?
@@kingsfan2512 heres a guy who never played on a 120hz+ monitor fellas
I didn't know Mark Cerny will be 60 yrs old in August 24, 2024. He still looks young.
... I was certain that guy was around 45. 50 tops. o_O
what money does to a mf
Cerny studio's begins too. Via playstation studio's expansion too.
60fps knack 3 begins.
New exclusive ip etc too. Thanks cerny.
I think he has limited stress. I mean, think about how easy his job is. He designs one product every 4 years. If the lifecycle of a console is 7 years, he’s able to design the console and then take the next 3 years off.
@@summerrr1Yeah that's not how it works hahaha😂
60fps needs to be the standard for video games. The same way 24fps is the standard for film.
Funny enough the 24 fps standard for film started because it saved them a crap ton of money.
@blackstar-genX 24 FPS movie standard started due to being match for movies with sound. That's why silent movies before had fps and speed all over the place.
Games need more options.
60fps performance mode no RT.
60fps performance mode with RT (lower resolution).
Balanced mode (seeks an inbetween alternative that targets 40-50fps)
30fps quality mode no upscaling.
30fps quality mode with RT (uses upscaling)
This should only apply to heavier games, there are games that do not need performance options as they run fine. Some games will obviously be stuck at 30fps because there is no way to milk more out of the current hardware to achieve 60fps, so 30fps has to be the default setting.
60fps being a standard going forward is not as simple as it sounds. Consoles use a combination of hardware, which is usually decent by the time it launches, it usually aims for mid to "low high" range performance at the time of release, as time goes on, the hardware struggles and become low range performance or mid at best. Using upscalers and the likes is a nice solution but it creates a problem as studios will start neglecting games even more when it comes to performance/stability/optimization as they will rely in this stuff to make the game run fine or just good enough. We don't want that. If studios/publishers weren't this lazy and tried cutting corners, that would have been the ideal solution going forward, as it allows for taxing games to get better frame rates using stuff like FSR. It isn't perfect, but it helps.
The only other solution is to refresh consoles every 4-5 years and end the generational cycle. Allowing people to buy a new system every 5 years to get top tier performance, but this would make consoles a more expensive approach than buying a decent pc and playing the same games on it.
There is also the streaming solution but that is still far ahead in time and i don't want to go that route.
AI could also be a solution to this in a few years, but i don't know about this one... This might work for some types of games.
@@BlackSnake1602 no, a research found that 48 fps was the lowest fps that human eye would see as a continious motion and can't difirentiate it with higher fps. But it was too expensive so they went with half that.
@@bugrasevinc9696 research in 1927 when first movie with sound at 24fps came out? No. 24 FPS was a perfect match for movies with sound and it stayed that way. Some movies where shoot at 60 like Hobbit and every one who saw that version complained "it does not look right". Today using digital cameras you can get any FPS for no additional cost but no one wants movies in high framerate.
I don't care how much more detailed the artwork is if it moves by like a slide show.
spot on
Yeah same, once you see the difference between 30 and 60 there is just no comparison.
Senua's Saga Hellblade 2 would like to have a word.
A consistent 30 is fine, it’s just when games can barely even make 20, that’s the issue.
Imagine pretending like 30 fps is a slideshow 😂😂😂😂
Yall still really pretending like you didn't play on ps4 where 90% of the games were 30? Or even masterpieces from back in the day like ocarina of time??
Yea I'm sure that's a bad "slideshow" game 😂😂😂😂
1080p 60fps should be the bare minimum. 1440p is the sweet spot though
👍
Seriously. You can make incredible looking and playing things at 1440p60. Everyone oughta be targeting that
Yup and notice newer games run worst on PC now.
@@JayUchiha17 we aren't forced to run games at 1080p and below on PC so games definitely aren't running worse on PC.
The problem is sometimes you get the public complaining about something not graphically looking the best while something is 60fps, I get annoyed with comments like that where that’s not acknowledged.
Every game should have the option to choose 30 fps with the best graphics or 60 fps with pretty good graphics.
Some games are fine in only 30, I'll say it. Lots and lots of games put a lot of effort into making the story cinematic, and there is good reason to go for the best graphics in those games.
Resolution Mode/Performance Mode?
@@El_cuatro Exactly. I like how that is currently. I like to have options (which is why I mostly play on PC nowadays).
I liked what they had in spiderman remastered where there was an option for a 40fps mode that had ray tracing. That was the best for me
I absolutely hate 30fps.
Any kind of motion and those better visuals are totally lost.
Really, what's the point???
I completely disagree. Every game should aim for 60 fps and push the detail as high as they can while still maintaining 60 fps. 30 fps never allows for significantly better visuals. It’s always a negligible difference in terms of detail and resolution but the difference in framerate is a difference that everyone can feel.
Its way easier to tell the bump in quality from 30FPS to 60FPS than it is to see the bump from 1440p to 4K
1440 and 4k are vastly different by about 2k pixels. As some who just recently upgraded to 4k OLED from 1440 ips it's night and day . And I've been using 1440 monitor since 2020.
@@NeonCyberSamurai I'm Also rocking 4K OLED. The jump just isn't the same. It starts tapering off exponentially.
I will always trade visuals for a better framerate. A higher fps makes you have more control of the game and makes it more fun
it's definitely more functional, a boring game does not magically become fun by bumping the fps.
You could still have that with 30 FPS as well.
@@keijijohnson9754 I wrote "MORE" fun and control
depending on the game i'll take either or. like racing i like 30 fps because it looks faster, FPS 60fps, rpgs visuals.
30 FPS and better visuals for games where fast reflexes aren’t a big priority I think is where you’d want to choose that.
This generation just seem like it hasn’t started yet and we are 4 years in.
Games changed, different field now. Everything takes a shit load of time to make or you get the whole gaming community on your neck and it is game over as a company.
indie games are the future
We aren't 4 years in until November, and if you look at past patterns, the heavy hitters don't start releasing until at least 3-4 years after a console has launched.
Hell, God of War took 5 years to come out after the PS4 released.
@@Krypto121 Exactly. I keep seeing this point come up and it's annoying. The PS4 didn't get that amazing streak of games at the start.
@@hiromitsukanzuki9137 It's always been this way. MGS 1 came out 4 years after the PS1. God of War came out 5 years after the PS2. The Last of Us came out 7 years after the PS3. Elden Ring came out 9 years after the PS4.
I think it's more noticeable now since we aren't getting games 1-2 years after the previous title. It took 7 years between The Last of Us 1 and 2, as one of MANY examples.
I love mark cerny so much. He worked on crash bandicoot and traveled to japan without speaking japanese and they still made a game just because he liked the challange
Thanks Ryan, nice to hear your thoughts on this great article. I agree that Mark rarely does interviews, but that's of late. If you search on TH-cam there's many from the past. I really loved the one with Shu Yosheda, such legends. I hope Mark continues to consult for them into his 90s, a very impressive and understated individual.
60 FPS >>> Than graphical features
Depends on the game. If it's like hellblade and Until Dawn i don't mind.
depends ha.
id rather have a stable 30 than a shaky 60
I always go for quality mode. I am resolution junkie 😊
@@BlackSnake1602Same
@@x0Fang0xA movie like game, ok. But a game like Stellar Blade, Elden Ring and Uncharted. 60 FPS are much better to play.
I would take 1080p at 120fps all day every day if i could get it.
I played destiny 2 crucible at 120 and I didn't see a difference from 60
@stannisthemannis5535
Its definitely smoother for sure.
Its acrually VERY noticeable if you go from 60 to the 120hz mode on Spiderman Remastered.
@@stannisthemannis5535 You don't SEE any difference, It's the responsiveness of player input.
@@Lennox032 that makes sense but what I'm saying is that the responsiveness is not the same as going from 30 to 60
and with Ray-tracing, that would be amazing
Platinum in Neon White is no joke.
Ryan I went to too many games today on Sunday not expecting to see you there pretty upset. Than I saw you there thank you for taking a picture with me and being so cool !
I still don't understand how these types are still stating things like this. Cerny himself has been pushing 60fps back to the PS4 era. We were told that the PS5 and Series X were like the best PCs back in 2020. 60 FPS was the standard well before 2020. I'm more surprised this is still a discussion in 2024.
"We were told" is a good thing to note. Now on days you know it was like a low-end, or probably barely mid-end PC (currently and since 2021 low-end, or course), because when a $565 PC can have better raster performance than a console, and double it with less artifacts and lower latency using AI, in less than 4 years when you still selling kt for $400, then you either know it didn't age well or that they were straight up lying to you.
Also, the reason why we have so many PS5 games running at 60 fps is because the vast majority of the time we are playing PS4 games. This generation feels like it barely started.
He's not saying that because he has some preference, he just expected more developers to opt for more detail instead of more frames.
@@joseijoseiWe were also told that the “vast majority” of PC players use a mid range machine to game on. We’re playing the best optimized version that our console, the PS5, has to offer while you keyboarders wait for a sale of a port for the games we’ve already enjoyed.
I don’t get it either. I predicted that once you give people the option of performance or graphics most people would choose performance and there would be backlash when it’s not available (like with dragons dogma 2) the only reason they got away with it previously is because we didn’t get options.
@@He_isIyou do realize a ton of these keyboarders enjoyed these titles along with you on console and are just wanting the pc upgrade, right?
Game devs are not stupid and mark cerny is absolutely right, most people who buy consoles are casual normies, they don't care about 30 or 60 fps but they do care if the game looks stunning or not. That's simply the reason why we still have 30fps on consoles.
That's not true at all. I mean, the part about normies is, sure, but the reason we don't have a 60fps standard is because consoles can't run modern games at 60fps while simultaneously looking really good. Modern games and game engines far outpace console hardware and console companies are already selling the hardware at a loss in hopes that they make a return on the games. For consoles to play games at a minimum of 60 fps while retaining high fidelity visuals they need to cost $1k at which point your in gaming PC Territory.
Yes. This is why I switched to pc lol
You also have normies that unironically tell you there is zero difference between 30 fps and 144 fps. Consoles love the lowest common denominator since they care very little about performance
@@thehurts9216
Nope. That is false. Is all about developer work.
Games can look quite good in 60fps. Developers just don't want to miss that extra little wow factor for 60fps. Not that a game will look awful if it's 60, they just don't do the correct development work for a game at 60.
Even if PS5 has twice the power developers will still be putting more pretty effects instead of making stable high resolution 60 or trying a 120fps mode etc.
It doesn't matter how much power you give developers. They will use all of it for prettier graphics to impress the normies with the good looks of their game.
Yeah but I think the industry should realize we don't need emasculate graphics anymore. We've had well past good enough for years with games like Mass Effect 3 or Dead Space 2 still looking modern 12 years later on hardware that was 40 times weaker. Like yeah Spiderman 2 looked better, but was it 40 times better? And then they even gave the option of 60fps and if so, why not use it?
I know even long before I knew what frame rate was I'd noticed some games feeling different than others. I still remember thinking Burnout 3 while uglier than NFSU2 always felt so much nicer. Even if you don't recognize the benefit you do still benefit from it. Not to mention in the quest for flashy graphics we've also made games more chaotic and fast which makes the changes in frame rate even more apparent.
But I do think we need to move on from games needing to look flawless like a movie. We've well past needing to prove it's possible and this added effort is making games take longer and cutting into the budgets of fleshing them out and bug testing. I still remember how in 10 years we got Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST, and Reach all of which were extremely high fidelity games. We just don't get that anymore. Even Uncharted had 1-3 each come in 2 year increments, then 4 took 5 years. This quest for the highest fidelity has actively cut into how many games we're getting.
That guy is a very chill person and nice. And speaks very well and clean. I really like him... Is one of the few people from the game industry is not ahole
I'm with "Mark. He's the G.O.A.T. We should definitely be at 60fps for almost all games. 👍
Not really. Is up to the developer. But plenty of third person games can play just fine if they are locked at steady 30fps.
Some games need 60 more depending on the type of game.
In the end though the "omg is unplayable at 30" has more to do with PC that rarely has steady framerates or bad games that can't go over 30 but can be stable at 30 ether.
If a game is actually very steady at 30fps then is not a horrible experience to play at all.
"Almost all"
That's fair
Anybody saying it should be standard is clueless. But most? Sure
@@SIPEROTHthat's why he said almost all. I agree with you otherwise though. Many games do not need 60 whatsoever
@@SIPEROTH get a monitor that supports higher refresh rate and then let's see if you have the same opinion your TVs locked at 60hz so even if a game was running at 120fps on the console you wouldn't see it you need a monitor with 120hz to notice the increase 😂
@@nathanconnolly395 My PC monitor is 144Hz. That is a decent refresh rate.
I play games on my PC too.
Sure my console is connected to a 60Hz TV panel instead of my PC monitor but when i play some 30fps games i don't feel is unplayable because i can use a 144hz monitor.
My smartphone also has 120HZ screen as well so yeah i have high refresh devices.
Yes if i try to do direct comparison i can see the extra smoothness but that is only if i try to make comparisons going back and fourth etc.
If i just come back from work tired and i click my console and sit and play on my TV a 30fps locked game i can still enjoy my self just fine without feeling the game plays bad.
You people are too stuck on comparing back and forth which is why you feel like OMG, i can play 30fps anymore after this etc.
I admit some specific games can make you feel that way but many other games not really.
You people also heavily underestimate the importance of stable framerate over high frame rate.
Many times i play games on my PC with much higher fps and feel worse than playing a 30fps locked steady on a console because the lack of stability and even stutters that can appear make it much worse experience than a 30fps stable.
If i click on my PS3 or the Switch to play some of those unstable games that are jumping between 20 and 30 fps and the console can't get them to be 30 stable then it really does feel bad, but if i click on my PS4 Pro or PS5 and play high settings with 30 stable then it feels amazingly better.
cerney is the goat. I'm glad he has time to relax and play games like the rest of us. It's good to see.
I'm surprised too honestly, I expected 60fps to be a launch thing. The fact that we are almost 4 years into the generation and still getting 60fps games is insane.
you are insane
@@ps4games164you are insane
Why is it insane? Isnt the ps5 a 6700xt?
EVERY GAME SHOULD BE 60 FPS
99% of games are
I wouldn't say all of them or a proper 60. But still better than 30 any day.
Glad you did this video. I agree with Mark Cerny on all these questions he had for the generation. Games do take way too long.
I miss the fifth and sixth gen days when games didnt take long to make. They would come out with new games every couple months. Then seventh gen we had to wait a 1-2 years for a game.
I just hope Mark gets a chance for PS7 but we know he's out after PS6. He's done a great job for lead architect for PS4 & PS5 after Ken Kutaragi left.
They definitely need to release games sooner and more games for PS6 gen. Pandemic held PS5 gen back. 60 FPS with good visual fidelity better be perfected.
I can't wait for PS6 reveal and what ideas Mark comes up with console hardware design and features.
I didn’t expect a reference to Every Which Way But Loose.
I think the tough part of 60fps and making an affordable console in general, is the gains you make as time goes on as far as hardware resources, you have to pretty much figure out how you are going to use those. While the PS4/Xbone generation had significant limitations in the CPU area, both utilizing a Jaguar tablet style CPU, the PS5/XBX generation doesn't have that same issue with the Xen 2 which is more than capable of 60fps in majority of games, even 120fps in a lot of cases (it's almost always GPU bottlenecked on these consoles). I know many out there think the reason they are getting 30fps in games is due to the CPU like it was in the PS4/Xbone generation, and I think PS5 Pro will really surprise some folks, POSSIBLY. Game developers will have a choice to make, to use the added GPU resources of upgraded hardware for visual fidelity, or possibility keep it looking graphically the same as PS5 and just increase the FPS from 30fps to 60fps. I think with Sony trying to do its own machine learning (ML) upscaling, I think they are going to attempt to do both, or sacrifice one for RT (probably 60fps since RT is heavy).
While had almost every console from Sony, some from Microsoft, and even a 13900k/4090 PC in which I'm always GPU bottlenecked (4k gaming of course), I had started up a game I never finished on my PS4 because it made it sound like a jet engine, and started playing it at a 4k as close to 120fps as possible (get too high of fps and textures won't load). That game is AC Unity, which I'm actually blown away by on a CPU level. So many NPCs with amazing scripts an AI that they don't even look like NPCs. Plays going on, people going on stage, different movement cycles that have yet to strike me as a repeat. Just stunning. The game was way too ambitious for the PS4/Xbone generation for sure, and even on my 13900k it puts it to work. As many that scream "UnOpTiMiZeD!! Lazy devs" I think feel that everything can be fixed with a little optimization. While it's true to an extent, in AC Unitys case it had to be addition by subtraction which also pissed off a lot of people. (some expect optimization means to give all with no compromises to give all).
Long story short, people are buying these cheaper consoles and ultimately developers are trying to decide whether to pursue lower graphics, with 60fps, and a possibility of a current gen looking visually not much better than previous gen, but 60fps, or really pushing the visuals to settle on a 30fps mark. I think PS5 Pro will do very well, and I really don't think they needed much of a CPU upgrade anyways but extra GPU resources and memory bandwidth. Just watch, we will see more 60fps games than most think, and varied options between 60fps and graphical fidelity being pretty widespread. With UE5 it will be a struggle still to sell an affordable console while running 60fps, which is why their ML upscaling will hopefully be pretty good.
Got to thank Mark for making ps5 backwards compatible with ps4 I just hope with the ps6 it will be backwards compatible with ps5 & ps4.
PS6 should be backwards compatible with the entire PS catalogue. It should be powerful enough by that point to emulate PS3 games at higher resolutions.
Yeah the ps3 break is cause Cell cpu is so non-standard shelf cpus cant copy it.
@@Jumsut_ True. Hopefully, Full backwards compatibility will become the standard on PS6.
Bloody PS3 threw a spanner in the works with its wonky architecture. Couldn't have PS2 backwards compatibility without putting the actual PS2 guts inside the PS3 (which was too expensive so they scrapped it) and then PS4 couldn't handle PS3 BC because the architecture was too weird.
Although the weaksauce PS2 emulation on PS4 was definitely Sony's failure. Especially compared to Xbox & X360 BC on Xbox One.
Thank You for Mark Cerny update!
One of Mark Cernys first efforts was Marble Madness for the arcades for Atari. Games still great.
Time to triangle is not the time that takes to render a single triangle on screen. But the time studios need to implement their technology to run at a good acceptable state.
That's because graphics already peaked with ps4 now we can focus on performance more.
No, it's because the vast majority of the time you are still playing PS4 games.
@@joseijosei The games look good that's what matters
@@Dragonfury3000 But graphics didn't peak with PS4. If they did, then you wouldn't get games like Hellblade 2.
The reason why a lot of games run at 60 fps is because we are still playing games that can run on a PS4, not because graphics peaked with a PS4. Those games didn't even look like Escape From Tarkov, and that game is playable since 2017.
@@joseijoseiIf the XSS wasn’t a relative PS4 Pro in disguise of a current generation console, maybe Hellblade 2 could natively run 60fps.
@@joseijosei hellblade 2 is not the bench mark for visuals lots of other games look as good if not better even on the ps4. The only reason we have a lot of games that can still run on last gen is because of the huge amount of players on them. There are still games that definitely can’t run on ps4:sm2, rift apart, baldurs gate 3
Crazy. Cerny has been making games as long as I have been playing them. He doesn't look that old.
I've read the interview with Mark and it's a very good and interesting article to read! I personally feel like every first party or third party game should ship with a 60 fps mode and a balanced 4K 40 fps mode with or without ray tracing. Also, more devolopers should add the 120 Hz display option as well since most people who have 4K TVs or 4K monitors can support it.
Excellent video Ryan mate love your playstation content
And hes right the STUDIOS are choosing to make these 5 year live service games. They could be making great single player games then creating a sequel where you would already have work completed for sequels. The studios are shooting themselves in the foot looking for huge live service payouts
Open worlds, live service, 60+ hours of content. Surely the trifecta of spending all these resource... with a chance of failure rate in every corner.
What? I think you are mixing up stuff here.
He referred to high quality AAA Games like TLoU, Uncharted etc.
You are talking about live service games. Live service games in particular dont have the quality standards of these high quality AAA Games. They are supported for many years, yes, but the development of the game doesnt take that long. After release a team consisted of a few employees will be created and they will create the content for the live service aspect…
But gamers are complaining about single player games
I would rather have every game be like DMC5 a great looking 1080p game that does 120fps. seeing every strand of hair is something we do not need in video game.
1080p has been more than fine for me
amen.
You guys haven't tried gaming on 4K yet, have you?
@@jerardtanThere's no point of 4k if they don't have a big screen
@@jerardtanyou meaning watching a PowerPoint presentation at 4K?
The dreamcast had a good library of games that ran 60fps, good old days!
I joined the PC Master race world last year, and I was surprised to see that loading times of the PS5 are almost just as fast as in PC depending on the game. Mark did an outstanding job with the recent PlayStation architectures!
This channel is criminally underrated
He just reads out an interview for you in video form lol.
Barely any additional insight.
He has 800k subs I'd say he's fairly popular
how is he "criminally underrated" with almost 800k subs??
Lol shuddup
@@kindahangingoutwaiting1922 in fairness, in the grand scheme of youtube and the utter shit that is on here which somehow garners 10s of millions of subs, i definitely would say Mystic is underrated/underappreciated.
I really do respect Mark Cerny. He's been in the industry for a long time, seems really in touch with gamers and is genuinely a fan of the medium that he works in, and he's been at the forefront of Sony's two most recent consoles to great success. The PS5, while the software side leaves a lot to be desired, is still an impressive piece of tech. Everything about the PS5 from its unique design, its controller, its UI, its power and features... while all iterative of what the PS4 already accomplished, is still the best version of what PlayStation represents. This console generation leaves a lot to be desired for a multitude of reasons, but the PS5 is still a technical marvel to me.
When the man passes away someday, I genuinely think that he'll be looked at the same way Satoru Iwata is by Nintendo fans.
What an amazing man with inspiring career
love the vids ryan
My girlfriend still plays on PS4 and always wonders why I prefer 60 FPS on PC or PS5 when it's offered.
She played RE4 Remake on my PC, and it only took about an hour for her to go "I see why people prefer 60 FPS over 30 now."
For me, it's always been about the smoothness of camera movement in third or first person games. The jutter that comes with 30 FPS camera movement is just horrible now after playing at 60 for a few years.
Personally, I wish developers would just dial back settings and ensure the game runs at 60 FPS than focus on 4K. 4K is 4 times as demanding as 1080p, and when the best you can achieve is 4K 30, maybe it's just not worth it.
that smoothness of camera movement is the main reason why 30fps is an issue. And that problem is completely gone at 40-45fps. If that was the minimium target we wouldn't be having this conversation about 30 vs 60.
@@tacothunder2298 But mah gwaficks! That's what the people would say when the resolution is 1080p going forward.
Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
I expected more games
games are taking longer to make..... especially since people want 4k+.
@@caliginousmoira8565 Cool. That's not my problem. That's their problem. Doesn't excuse the lack of first party showings.
@@caliginousmoira8565 Computers, dev kits, and everything else needed to make a game are faster and more advanced than ever. Companies just work slower nowadays
@@StingRayo98 So it's my problem that this generation has barely any first party exclusives?
Make it make sense.
Nothing changes that fact lol
Again. Not my problem.
It's easy to get disappointed when you have massive expectations
marble madness!!! ill never forget the first time i saw it and heard it
The man has so much knowledge, thank you Mr Cerny 🙏
I think the push for 60fps was an obvious target for current gen as graphics have already started to plateau. I even recently went back to Mass Effect 3 from 2012 and still looks nearly as good as they highest budget games coming out now: and that game came out on PS3 and Xbox 360.
I do think we're at the point now where the added effort isn't nearly as warranted anymore as we've been well past good enough for a while now. And people only just moved to 4K and in the modern era of temporal rendering 4K isn't even that spectacularly better than lower res. Do most people even notice that their games are running at 1440p with scaling vs true 4K?
It's 2024! How is 30fps still ok?!
Because of console peasants who cant tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps
It’s WEIRD to me that even the lead architect thought there wouldn’t be this much of a “push” for 60FPS framerates.
MAYBE he thought more developers would be pushing visual fidelity to the brink to where 60FPS simply wouldn’t be possible?
I don’t know; my personal stance is I’m GOOD with the current push for higher average framerates since I’ve honestly been FINE with the level of visual fidelity that games have been able to ACHIEVE for like 2-3 generations now.
I'm absolutely fucking shocked that we're still having this fps debate in 2024.
We have to make 60fps the standard. Going back to 30fps games from 60 is like going back a generation in hardware. Yes graphics are important but stability is way more important , especially when games already look as good as they do. I would easily give up some better looking lighting for fps any day of the week
It's mental to me to run into this video that treats 60 FPS like it's this wild thing and not the bare minimum FPS you should tune settings for if you have to.
@@albert2006xpConsidering the fact that we're 4 YEARS into this generation and 60 fps is not the bare minimum w every game is fucking insane. Pc has had high framerates for 10 YEARS
"We have to" is what most people like you who are commenting don't get. It's on you to make it the standard. Go join the industry.
60 fps > best possible graphics
I think the thing with the graphics vs framerate argument is that things have changed drastically over the last decade or so. We as console players were so used to 30fps, unless you also gamed on a PC, you did not notice how bad 30fps was because that is all you knew. Also, you only have to look at the backlash with the first Watchdogs game, and how much it was slated for having to dial the graphics back for the consoles. At this point in time, console owners were prioritising graphics over almost everything else.
Now graphics are not as vastly different between console generations and we have become more accustomed to 60fps, we would rather sacrifice a small amount of graphical fidelity if it means higher frame rate.
I bought a prebuilt lenovo PC in 2021 at the peak of semi conductor and parts shortage. I got myself a 1660 Super just so I can play relatively new games at medium to high settings on 60 fps on my old 1080p tv.
1660 super is working fine for me and I'm also using lossless scaling app wherever required.
I'm expecting the Ps6 to have 120 FPS at 1440p and 60 FPS at 4K as the Standard.
And 30 to 40 fps in 8k
lol. wake up to reality, little teenager. Consoles are for budget gamers. If u want 4k or 8k and talk about fps, u get a pc.
@@BlackSkyZ2dude being elitist about what box you buy is the most childish thing
@@dziankolack9331 it’s called being realistic. One machine is 500-600$, the other is 1000$+
i don't want every game to look like fortnight, but i also want my at the very least 60fps.
and i know they can do it with todays hardware, they just seem to choose the visuals over the performance in most cases, which is a damn shame.
Too many games have unreal engine now. On the Ps2 they all looked different
@@hurricane7727
idk about that, i have seen enough unreal engine games that look too similar to each other, not all of them look good or play well either, like that glum game that was made, eventually you know it's a game done in Unreal. but yeah they kind of screwed themselves on that game.
Yeah, consoles are now not only battling with PC and handheld PC-based consoles like Steam Deck and ROG Ally, they are also combatting the very thing they were relying on: TVs. Smart TVs now all offer some sort of Gaming Hub that allows to connect a controller. And the only saving grace a console has is the better performance over what a Smart TV can do with running the game on a cloud platform.
Platinuming Neon White is psychotic. That shit is so unbelievably hard
imagine the games we'll get in the future
Like, the PS5 games, but on Steam and at a good price instead? The future is now.
@@HaohmaruHLFinal Fantasy VII Rebirth is my goty
@@HaohmaruHLsteam and good price doesn’t work since you can’t re-sell after you finish a game
@@putyograsseson
It's OK, I may feel the need to play them again in the future. Games not taking any physical space is a plus for me.
Some devs started making you download the game from the internet with the disc just being the activation tool to allow you boot that game anyway. So it's not always 100% physical anymore.
I've had a retro game collection before but I've never touched those game cartridges and disc's ever again to actually play them, and opted for the emulation when I wanted to replay them. Nostalgia is nostalgia but after 10 minutes of pretending you're enjoying it on the original hardware and your old dusty CRT you'd eventually want to enhance your experience with features like the clearer picture, smoother gameplay, button remaps, saves etc.
I mean, playing demons souls on ps3 back in 2009 was cool and all but I can play it 60fps on my steam deck now wherever I go. The ps3 disc has been gathering dust since then. Why should I still keep it?
The fear mongering like "you don't own those games" isn't affecting me since if I'd want to play a game that isn't available anymore I'll easily find other ways to play it.
The games were simply taking lots of space, and it became a problem when I moved, so I eventually got rid of all them.
Game devs won't care about a bunch of physical media enthusiasts and will still do as they find fit anyway.
@@HaohmaruHL hmm yeah I tend to not have the need to replay games so I just get rid of them
In a world of VRR, we need uncapped options for all games. Don’t stop at 60fps if you have the right hardware.
RT performance even on a 4090 at native is still a slide show (something like Cyberpunk maxed RTing at 4k is still like 15-30fps), so we are still a few generations off from having ubiquitous RT in games.
Sure DLSS/FSR helps with that but we are already pushing it to its limits already.
Developers really focus more on providing a better experience with higher frame rates than trying to force every bell and whistle. It doesn't have to be 60fps but 40fps+ with VRR is a nice compromise.
I remember before the launch of PS5 there were so many videos telling people what TVs and cables to use otherwise they wont get 4K 60fps. It seemed like that was going to be the standard. It disappointingly is not.
High refresh rate display with VRR is quite affordable rn. There's no reason staying locked on 30fps.
Monitors? Sure. TVs? Not so much. There are no reasons to stay locked at 30 fps, but there are no reasons to not give you the option to not be, like on Elden Ring. Bad frametime still sucks, and VRR has a range, and games like Baldur's Gate 3, Elden Ring or Dragon's Dogma 2 are at many times below it, so... having the option to lock your framerate is always nice.
Tried to play evil west on PS5 the other day. I just can’t do 30fps anymore it gives me a headache
I understand what you mean, I had the same trouble with ff16 that is so unstable evne in performance mode... Elden Ring has big trouble too. Let's hope that it will be fixed on PS5 Pro.. 🙄
@@ogamitaicho77You say that like if Sony will send a PS5 Pro to any PS5 user.
I love him more now that I know he plays video games
60 fps just means they can render at lower resolution. the cpu headroom is there because games have not evolved enough (or are trying too much to be cross-gen and cross-plat) to use the new cpus to enhance the experience in terms of simulation, characters density and so on.
Tech Linus is an "andhbhakt" that's wat we call someone who blindly believes in something... here in India .. he is an andhbhakt of PC... even wen PS5 was gonna launch.. he made it sure to downplay dualsense features everytime he got chance... and he calls himself a gamer... I mean anything which immerses me more in gaming should b a welcome thing or atleast you should look it with curiosity instead of straight way just denying it without even using it.. he has always been an... u know... he even made some video apologizing for some remark he made about PS5 SSD but wen he understood the tech and wat was being talked... he simply made a video apologising... *SMH* some ppl never learn
Mr. Cerny is the sole reason I trust gaming on my PS5 and beyond. I’m glad he’s around!
Now most games havw a performance and fidelity modes I would be curious to see the stats that most people use. Personally i play performance. Give me a smoother experience over all the shiny bits.
Make a PS5 UI wish list video 🙏
That’s funny, he says he was surprised to see 60fps games but put 4K/120 on the box 😂
And the box even used to say 8k 😂
wouldnt that be more of a marketing decision?
He said he is surprised to see how MANY games support 60fps, he didn't say he was surprised to see 60fps games ;)
Didn’t they advertise Ps5 at 120??? And now he’s surprised that most cross gen games run at 60????? I’m so tired of Sony, I’ll just build a PC after 25 years of gaming. I’ve even owned every PlayStation since the Ps era.
No one cares.
I hoped 1440p60 would be the industry standard this generation since the PS4 Pro and XONE X were already doing 1080p60 minimum. But the way I see it GTA VI will run at 30FPS on base models, and maybe 4K60 (1440p upscaled?) on PS5 Pro.
What some people dpnt understand is not always about frame per second it's about fram times and consistency.I'd rather a solid smooth 30 than a stuttering 60 .However I don't hardly use either I play PC and most games at 90+ fps usually 144
That quote about not expecting gamers to prefer 60FPS over higher fidelity at 30FPS is really surprising. Just shows me that so many people running the show and making games are obsessed with the presentation and marketing rather than the actual gameplay being the presentation and marketing.
Many probably aren't even gamers in the way that people like us watching these videos are. No sensible person that plays games and has their eyes out there would think that. Especially if they have ever even looked at a PC game before.
That’s not what he said tho
2:46 “Gamers overwhelmingly prefer games that are at higher frame rates. I just didn’t expect such a departure from previous generations”
It’s morso he didn’t believe the industry pushed for it
I can't wait for the leaks and speculations about PS6 two years from launch.
Those times are the most exciting. Still two more years to go before the fun begins.
💀💀💀
Some games would be nice..
@@robtennant98There are plenty of games to be played. Maybe you should get a high tier of PS+. PS only held back this year on its games because there isn’t any reason to put the best out. IMO, I think they gambled on MS’s showcase to feature what’s coming next year on Xbox so PS can already have a strong line up ready for competition.
@@He_isIfunny you say that when the PS player base is split between PS4 and PS5. Sure you can say it's because of 2020 or x and y but the result is that ppl won't switch for now and that impact some studio who sells only on PS5 (like Square Enix). Hell even the next Cod is on PS4, i think only GTA will bump up the sales of PS5 and xbox series X/S
I feel so sorry for you
I completed Sekiro at 30 fps on a base ps4, and it was my first souls game.
I have nothing to add to the conversation but i wanted you: the reader to know that.
Question for you Mystic. Do you think 60 fps will be the norm for big title games in the ps6? Because as far as visual fidelity, I don’t see game companies really focusing much on rendering 8K since the improvement from 4K is so minimal on anything smaller than huge TVs.
The answer is sort of, games will sorta target 4K 60fps for the most part but then they'll have varying quality of ray tracing and upscaling and frame generation so hard to put it as "just 4k 60" yano
I'm just waiting for the Cerny Ps5 pro overview at this point. Waiting.... waiting patiently!
😢me too I don't have any play s now
Those 30fps fidelity modes are unplayable
I feel like they thought we would make the push for 8k gaming. They were wrong obviously, especially when you can get 300 to 400 dollar tvs that have a 60fps gaming mode.
I wish more game studios gave us a Ratchet and Clank 40FPS Fidelity mode option. Weird how I thought I needed 60, but there was some voodoo magic going on in that 40FPS mode.
I’ll never forget how Cerny indirectly trolls on PS3 and it’s complicated Cell architecture. He probably tried so hard not to diss Kutaragi.
The PS3 and every other prior Sony Japanese PlayStation developed architecture were much more ambitious than the PS4 and PS5 American consoles.
The fact that developing a console takes less time than games is genuinely sad.
Games shouldn't take no more then 3yrs if you have your team working 24/7.. Day Shift and Night Shift. If One Guy can make a game that looks amazing then 100 ppl should do it too
@@NiceDiggz so you want devs to work like slaves with no sleep and no food just for you to get games you dont know how much it takes to make a game
Regardless if 60fps is necessary or not there is a clear demand for videos games to perform at something higher than 30fps. All this comes down to preference but I think 60 frames is a normal thing to see in most modern games.
I mean, Sony specifically corrected the CPU/GPU imbalance which came from the design of the PS4 so to me it only made sense that we’d see a fair number of 60FPS games. They’ve even got 120FPS on the box which is definitely not something a PS4 was EVER shooting for.
Bro from ps3 era. Following this guy and now im close to getting married. And dude still there showing games and Playstation 😂👍
URE5 doesn’t get along well with consoles. Expect many more 30 frames experience going forward
Just like unreal engune 4 when it dropped. Time will tell
UE5 was made for consoles that do not exist yet. It's so absurdly demanding for no reason.
Ue5 doesn't get along with anything. It pretty much requires upscaling.
I switch between performance and fidelity modes in a few games on ps5 and really cant tell a difference between 30fps and 60fps
The reason we have 60fps games and 120fps stems from the last pro consoles. Giving options of higher rez or higher fps and so developers can have options in graphics the biggest example is probably spider man 2. So getting options closer to PC is great and lets you choose
Cerny & Sony engineers RULES!.
can’t wait for the moment Cerny presents PS5 Pro!
Or the PS6 ;)
@@DeadPhoenix86DPOr the Ps6 Pro ;)
@@kriss5081 Or the PS7 ;)
@@kriss5081 Perhaps if/when that comes out so will The Last Of Us Part 1: Remade, Enhanced Re-Edited Extended Directors Master Cut Plus Golden Limited Pre-Order Edition
I think the only 30fps game I’ve bought on my PS5 is Pathfinder WOTR which is now 60fps. Can’t wait for the Dragons Dogma 2 120fps update.
The Best Quality/RT Modes are 30-40fps I guess, so the idea is still there but now we can get a bit more Temporal quality and smoothness, the Linus thing was funny
The PS5 Pro is only the product of rumor. We don't knows that it exists.
It's all but confirmed at this point. The leakers of the info are proven sources and the main guy who started this talk, MooresLawIsDead, pretty much laid out all of the pro specs on his channel
It is a thing. There are leaked documents about it having PSSR AI upscaler. Sony asking for the guy who leaked them to take it down proves it’s real.
It's real.
It is real
Gamers expected more 60fps games
Every goty nom runs at 60fps... what are you playing?
Yet the majority play on ps4
"Companies simply are choosing to make these big games that take this long"
I have been saying this personally to my friends for a while now.
We can have both smooth games and good looking games simultaneously it takes more patience and knowledge
When these companies announce "the most powerful Playstation/Xbox ever!" I expect that shit to run games at 60fps.
This means nothing. Is marketing.
Ps2 I think had higher fps games
just stop ps5 never said they had the most powerful xbox did and it show they not all that powerful because all their first party is not 60 fps
@TheCoolgame24 Wrong. Quit spreading misinformation.
@@pickledyart show me in video playstation said that ps5 is the most powerful console ever show me
The avg gamer doesn't care about 60fps, they still play their games at 30fps, studies have been done, it's only the hardcore that prefer 60fps, sacred symbols even talked about this not too long ago
When building a PC at console specs, is he taking into account that at launch, consoles are usually sold at a loss?
Its amazing. Ive been a gamer since birth. I remember when developers would push the Sega Genesis/Mega drive past the systems limits. Now its the opposite unless you have a pc.