I met a French Peugeot dealer on vacation last year. He told me that he was doing everything he could not to sell electric cars at the moment, because repairing and maintaining combustion-powered cars was (very) profitable for his garage and preparing for his retirement (in 5 years' time), when he could finally buy his Porsche 911. I swear it's true!
I drive a 2020 Peugeot 3008 Allure and I absolutely love it so much. If I had the money, I would without any doubt get this all new Peugeot 3008e or even a future Hybrid model. It’s not just about the price but rather the joy and experiance you get out of getting a Peugeot. Well super done Peugeot and what a brilliant review by such a capable and may I add, super knowledgeable person. ❤
Hmm ... seeing as Quentin is reasonably well informed ref the retail aspect of the car trade then it might be useful to quiz him on the groundswell of feelings within the main dealership community. If the above comment was true then it would be interesting to hear Quentin's views ... it wouldn't take long to see him attempt to duck the question and do the disinformation thing. There again we hear of the quite impressive fines to be imposed of dealers fail to meet targets in UK. Definitely worth hearing what Quentin has to say on this topic, in this instance. Who knew main dealerships could lose money? That is a surprise. Come on Robert and Quentin, kindly do an online debate on that dealership issue. And include the swing in car manufacturers' policy apropos their new stance on retaining ICE units converted to burn hydrogen. Dealerships might quite the idea on the grounds ICE units are thoroughly understood and would require servicing in the established way. Might also be a wheeze to avoid paying for the retraining/upskilling of the resident mechanics. Could be "invisible" benefits as in our roads wouldn't get such a kicking from the weight of millions of battery EVs, and suffer less from self igniting battery packs, plus reducing the risk of multistorey car parks collapsing at inconvenient moments, which they certainly will do if every car ends up loaded with hundreds of pounds weight of batteries. Using converted ICE units running on hydrogen or ammonia (Google is your friend) might well be a useful compromise in going green, avoiding the build up of CO2 in our atmosphere and prevent the sea lapping over your doormats. No, really you're welcome.
Nice to see Robert do a review again. I do quite enjoy Jack and Imogen as well, but it's great to see the original back in action every once in a while.
This is true, I laugh when I watch tiny female presenters tell me there's loadsa legroom in the rear with their driving position and compare with Jack, who has to eat his own legs to fit in. Maybe we need Gwendoline Christie to do some test drives?
@@HairyCheese it's a big problem that we don't have a standardized yardstick in the two meter range. I have no idea how big this car is, or any of the EVs at Chinese car shows! Equipment reviewers used to put a CD or DVD in the shot so people could tell how big it was. Some rules: 1. Every car presenter must disclose their height (in the shoes they're wearing). 2. Every car review needs to pose a standardized cut-out of 170 cm (5 ft 7 inch) tall "Essex man" next to the car and presenter.
As for thorough, to me it was more a general preview rather than a review. He mentioned some technical stats repeatedly (range, not entirely fitting the official number) while leaving out others (charging speed), not commenting on materials or seat space or ride quality etc.
You are right to question the £10k premium over a hybrid, which has a battery, motor, engine, auto gearbox, cooling system and more complex electronics to cope. I really hope we don’t raise duties on Chinese cars as Europe needs that competition to drive down prices. We know battery prices have dropped significantly, so is this car companies just trying it on while they can get away with it, hoping governments will penalise cheap imports from more efficient companies. And yes I know they are subsidised, but so is the oil industry and which is the better use of our money? Investing in a sunset technology or helping pioneer new industries that will help us compete. Australia has woken up to this, so should we.
its simple free market economics .... they are priced according to the competition, they know the hybrid has to be competitive with other hybrid cars .... also it can be cheap because the battery is 1/5th the size and ice engines/hybrid systems don't need billions sunk in to research, bev's do for now
It's not though it's got the kerbweight of a truck in the higher specified models. 2.5 tonnes should never be normal for a device to move one person around the majority of the time.
@@stevenbilclough2563 everyone's primary vehicle should be an e-bike and public transport. Then decide how much vehicle you really need for your second one, if any. If you live in a big town there are ride hailing, car shares, short-term truck and van rentals, and soon robotaxis. Before people respond with their 50 mile commutes in rain and towing a boat to a lake 500 miles away: you're a minority! Kids in towns today will grow up using e-bikes and electric scooters and many will never bother getting a driver's license.
Wh/m? Not mentioned. peak charge rate? Not mentioned. Rear seat adult comfort? Not mentioned. OTA capability? Not mentioned. These are all important points when choosing an EV. Design language is subjective (although the French brands do excell there)
I reckon the version with and ICE included, is cheaper because they want to sell more. They know the dealers will be happier, in turn knowing they’ll recoup the rest in ongoing repair & servicing costs.
This car is our first EV. Just ordered it Saturday. It so refreshing to see it not got a big iPad stuck in the middle. We got a 3008 1.2 GT Last time on mobility. This time Peugeot seems to be pushing their electric vehicle range for mobility. We got our test drive next Tuesday looking forwards to it. First time driving a ev plus I’ve never driven an automatic befit so it should be interesting. Anyway Peugeot are definitely going in the right direction with there EV’s
Agreed and secondly, in the UK, you'll get stung buying one second hand after 3 years with the 'expensi e car' tax 😅 and that's on top of 'normal' road tax.
Agreed price is crazy, but RRP is not the only factor in lease/PCP deals which is how most acquired cars. It's success will all boil down to the monthlies.
That display placement is FANTASTIC. That is SO much better than both keeping things around the steering column and putting a screen to the lower right. WAY BETTER. I'd like all cars to have that now. The base as EV thing is a great thing as well. The hood is of course stupid, as in so many (almost all) cars now, since almost all are SUV shaped. If we must have the massive unnecessary front hood, can we not slope it down 15 degrees? Would that kill the marketing guys?
Car companies fear that buyers dislike the egg-shaped grille-less look of the Tesla Model X and Model Y. And if your only idea to market a car is to show a bloated vehicle tearing around trails in the middle of nowhere with mud and rocks and sand flying, you end up making boxy Defender/G wagen/Jeep copies that look rugged, visibility and aerodynamics be damned.
@@skierpage I think you are absolutely correct... but it's really destructive ("Tall Vehicle Hoods Really Are Increasing Pedestrian Deaths" -- Wired 2024), and wastes interior space, parking space, and means we have very little flexibility of design.
about+/- 2130 kg but still too much weight for modest electric cruiser,(s class fully from 2002 was 2070kg with v6 engine, thinking about weight will be the most common issue to get future energysaving journeys,not up to task to drive 100 km under 16kwh spending -this will matter more in couple years to have a car with 1500 or with over 2000kg
I went to look ar a used e208 yesterday, about £12k for a 3/4 year old car but sadly as I'm 6 foot 1" it seemed a bit cramped for me coming from a Focus - but looks so much better than the Vauxhall version
Lease is just about up on my e208. Cracking little car to drive around for the last 3 years. If you're getting one for 50% off list then I'd say go for it. It's stupidly quick in sport mode and if you just pootle around in eco you'll get near enough 200 miles in fair weather. I regularly see 5/6 miles per kilowatt.
What’s wrong with physical buttons? Physical is nice. Physical is good. Physical is inexpensive to maintain. Physical doesn’t need you to look at it to operate it.
They are more expensive than a "screen" and adding / removing them can't be done with a software update. It's sad, as these blank screens have absolutely no haptic feedback.
Agree 100% I won't drive a Tesla until they bring back physical controls which Euro NCAP may effectively force them to do from 2026 onwards as NCAP are going to downgrade the safety ratings of cars that depend on touchscreen HUI. Eye's off tactile discovery controls are so much more intuitive and safer to use. Touchscreen mania is not about innovation or better, its about cheap cost cutting .
@@jantjarks7946Yep and they can ask money for the those buttons afterwards, if the screen stops you are f.... out of luck and 10K out of the pocket. An example - "Peugeot + adds buttons, otherwise you can use them once per drive." Just like BMW's heating seats. Also so dangerous to use. You got glare, no feedback, some of them change places depending on the mode or screen, it's just stupid.
What Robert said by the end is exactly my thought about Stellantis. It’s completely insane the price difference between their ICE and EV cars. And once we consider the amount of brands they have to share the costs between, it makes it even crazier!
In a Tesla Model 3, you don't need to look at the display to clean the windshield... just press and hold the left stalk-button. To wipe only once, simply press once. This also brings up the wiper pop-up, where you can use the steering wheel buttons to go through modes. (in the latest models that sadly don't have stalks anymore, the same works afaik with the wiper-button on the wheel)
To indicate right press a button that could be anywhere around the steering wheel. If you have not kept up with where it has moved to then just go and do not indicate. Maybe make a video of the Tesla repair process and experience.
@@lemagnitio72 It is an SUV so all the people are morbidly obese (to go with the car). Four people 125Kg apiece makes up the 1/2 tonne. Leave it for a couple of hours and they would have sweated off 10Kg but it would still be heavy.
The price is what's removed this from any consideration and I have a 3008. I'll probably end up with an Ioniq 5 once the new ones with rear wipers come out.
The Ioniq 5 N has a rear wiper! And 641 horsepower. And a sound setting where every time the wiper goes back and forth a V12 engine revs up and down 😉.
If you are looking at this size of car, also consider the offerings from Citroën, Hyundai (Kona 2 & Ioniq 5), Kia (Niro & EV6) and Peugeot (E2008 & this the E3008)- all are similar, I went for the Hyundai Kona 2 as it fitted better for my needs.
Sure the hybrid is cheaper, probably a much smaller battery pack. As an engineer I strongly dislike hybrids as they are the most complex of the three options, and I’ve owned them all three. I’m all electric now since 2016.
Love your work, Robert, but you can put a de-mist button onto the docking bar at the bottom of your Model 3 screen. No menus, no multi presses, just a simple windscreen de-mist icon, always on display that you press when you need it. You mention menus etc often, but you can have 5 control features showing on your M3 screen and the great thing is you can choose what those are :) On mine I have front demist, rear demist, Apple Music, phone & rear camera, but it could be anything you’d like ;)
The next anyone sees Robert at an event PLEASE tell him that in his model 3, all he has to do is say ‘Defogger on’ to activate the windscreen demister. I’ve seen him complain several times about having to go into menus lol😅
Even with the prices of batteries going down, I guess a lot of legacy automakers are still stuck with expensive battery supply deals they struck in panic, when they realized that they might not be able to get hold of enough of them.
If you buy the petrol or hybrid version then Peugeot will be continuing to make loads of profit with all the servicing and parts and labour, to keep those petrol engines going, hence the pure electric version has to be more expensive to buy.
@@Stiggy767 The manufacturer makes the (original) replacement parts / gets a license fee for replacement parts made. And I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer pays for every customer that keeps their car maintained at the dealer. A lot of manufacturers have incentives like: 'maintain at our dealers, and get your warranty extended'. They wouldn't do that if they would get nothing in return from the dealers.
Efficiency is the key to more range in an EV and we keep making small but valuable discoveries. Loved Roberts review of the car and it is nice to see a new take on the cockpit area. My new Model 3 RWD has the button to wash the windscreen, nice and easy to find, on the steering wheel!
@@bordersw1239 Some manufacturers seem to be manufacturing "service requirements" for EVs so maybe this is what makes the difference smaller than it would otherwise be.
Amusing to see Robert switch from a right-hand drive car to a left-hand drive car during the video. The price issue is because of volume, they are expecting to sell more hybrids so can get volume savings. Of course if the prices were adjusted ....
I recently saw a quote from Tesla for a battery replacement for $3500 including fitting, and I'm sure they are not making a loss. The hybrid motor must cost about $1000 or more. I could understand if there was a 1 to 2 grand difference, similar to difference between cost of petrol to diesel engines, but 10 grand is robbery.
@@francisboyle1739I wonder if Peugeot gives dealers a higher profit margin on BEV's so they're more willing to shift the battery tin that doesn't require nearly as much service.
Current battery prices are 139 dollars per kwh. So 77 kwh (73 kwh usable) = $ 10700. There is no petrol engine, but it does need power electronics for the electric motor and charging, a water cooling system for the batteries and a heat pump. In the Netherlands the price difference is € 7000, not 10 grand. Add subsidies, lower running costs and less maintenance and it looks quite good.
You forgot to show how small the space is on the back seats 😞 That car is heavy (but not 2.6 tons as you showed 😛), aero as a washing machine, expensive, what did I miss ? The Scenic looks so much better on the paper... It seems to me that Stellantis doesn't want to do good EVs... BUT that was nice to watch, thank you Robert ! Always happy in an EV ! (I should trademark that sentence and sell stickers)
If the automakers didn't keep dropping electric cars and releasing electric SUVs instead, they wouldn't need such massive batteries for the same range, and they'd stop being so overpriced.
When buying Peugeot, the best strategy was to wait a few years and buy a used one at half of the price ...and now, with their new prices this high it makes even more sense.
I share your sarcasm. When car fundamentals are so-so, all they can do is add a bunch of shiny buttons and hope for irrational buyers. Anyways, wish them luck. The bigger choice of EV models is better.
Robert you must have forgot you press the left stalk end button to activate the wiper in the Tesla Model 3/Y. Granted to change the setting you need to use the screen but IMO it's no big deal.
This car seems a lot more sensible on the button front than the e2008 we test drove a few years ago. And speaking of buttons and lack thereof in Teslas: You can choose to have a few quick access functions along the bottom of the screen - I've put the demisting function as one of them in our Model S - it halves the number of presses required to activate it from two to one.
Nice video and interesting car! The main problem of WLTP is not being unprecisem but being used for the wrong thing. It was not designed to estimate the range of a car, but it's average consumption. For range you need the motorway consumption (unless you are a taxi driver 😉), which for electric cars is much higher than city or other roads.
A lion has a total of 18 claws. Each paw has five claws on the front paws (one of which is a so-called "dew claw" that does not touch the ground when the lion walks) and four claws on the hind paws. This gives a total of 10 claws on the front paws and 8 claws on the back paws.
Now you've given Peugeot an idea for the startup animation of their EVs. The OLED central logo and the lighting "claws" will look and sound like the MGM movie lion.
Chevy originally came out with the Volt, which was an electric car with a small battery (38 miles in the 2010 1g, 53 miles in the 2016 2g) and a fairly large engine (1.5l 4-cyl @ 149HP, 45 US mpg) in lieu of the rest of the battery, which produced electricity but only after the battery ran down. Very nice car, albeit not roomy. Then when batteries got cheaper, they stopped making it to concentrate on battery-only EVs.
I fell in love with the e208 when i sat in it but brand new they are about double my budget, but we're starting to see some at a reasonable price on second hand market and imported second hand from japan too for around NZD30,000 which is promising. by the time i save my pennies though i imagine they'll be cheaper still. let's see if i manage to get one before i fall in love with another car :D
A quick Tesla tip Robert. You can put the front and rear demist icons in the bar at the bottom of the screen so you don’t have to go into the heater menu.
What a step forward is a physical button for cleaning the windows. No it's a step backwards for no buttons. And people are excited about it. That us stupid. How customers allowed those screen buttons is just mind blowing. It just shows how easy people are manipulated to sacrifice their comfort and safety just to be cool.
You definetly feel the difference between Eco/Normal/Sport mode in the e-2008 were the gas response in Sport are more responsive and the steering heavier than the other modes. I bet it's the same in the e-3008.
Peugeot built their first electric car in 1942. It was called the VLV and it was designed as a small city car for the French public who could afford it and were permitted, to get around during the occupation and very strict fuel rationing.
7:41 "It's just a car" That made me think.... When will the first generation grow up that won't say "electric car" but just "car"? Have they been born already? It's the same with mobile phones. I'm old, so I call it a "mobile phone". But for some time, the generation that have grown up with mobile phones from an early age and have grown up in a world where almost no one has a landline anymore, just calls them "phones".
After using a e2008 for 3 years and experiencing it just stopping 3 times 2 of the occasions in very busy live traffic I will never drive a Peugeot EV again. The problem was a wiring problem over the back wheel and in my opinion all e2008 should have been taken of the roads and recalled.
let’s face it a Peugeot EB is a competent car. It’s a car that you could buy and felt confident that it would do what you expected to do but it doesn’t really knock your socks off.
1) I'm really surprised that Robert didn't mention the magic button that switches the steering wheel to the other side - he obviously pressed it at about 9:20, but never mentioned it 😆 2) I assume that the £10k price hike for the electric version is 100% because they can get away with it. There is no way that it costs them that much more to make. 3) Don't expect the Chinese to rescue us - the western auto-makers have already persuaded the European and 'Merkin governments to slap huge tariffs on Chinese EVs on the basis that "they are more expensive than our models, so they MUST be subsidizing them!"
I think you mean "less expensive." The Chinese government has given billions in all kinds of incentives to its EV industry, starting years before Europe and the USA. European and American legacy car makers seem to be threatening governments "We'll slow investing billions in EVs and instead keep selling the polluting crap unless you guarantee us profits" while doing nothing to counter the "EVs are bad! nobody wants EVs" hysteria. They're planning to fail.
Impressive review the look of the car has grown on me but The price is eye-watering and the front seat isn't even electric, Correction it weighs 2100kg
Haptic buttons / touch screens are balls. Doesn't matter if it gives some feedback or not, the driver still has to look down to see where they're sticking their finger and that it's in the right mode. Totally defeats the safety benefit & convenience of muscle memory and physical controls. That doesn't mean the cabin has to be cluttered with buttons and knobs, but if the basics such as aircon/temp, heaters aren't physical then it's bad design.
It annoys me when car companies chamfer the back of the car off like this, then add the little spoiler to fix the bad aero they've just created. It reduces the internal volume, makes it more expensive, and makes the aero compromised. But they say it makes it look nicer or something? Really? It just tells me what their priorities are, and that it's probably not a car for me. Good heuristic to weed out the cars not worth my time.
You either way buy a subpar legacy EV or a Tesla. Otherwise you will have to wait until Geely built a factory in Europe, which will take a few years, and buy the newest, even more compelling MG4. That's basically the options available. 🤷
Robert, as you once (or twice) called him.. Where is that "swine" (Jack) gone for his well deserved holidays? 😂😂😂 Oh Robert.. You always make me laugh. Thank you my friend.
Good point about the pricing vs the hybrid. The obvious answer is the legacy car companies are still desperately trying to cling on to their traditional dealership business model of long term residual income from expensive parts and servicing of petrol cars.
nice pretty suv type coupe back but THINK THE WIDE SCREEN directly under your vision by steering wheel is a little distracting when you drive along , just saying
Not sure where you have been this last 5 years or so but the (obvious) reason the hybrid is cheaper than the EV version is because Peugeot won't be earning a sou from servicing the EV version for 10 years+. Come on ROB!! This is why *no* 'legacy' car-maker wants to sell EVS!
@@DanRyzESPUK America will get not-especially-compact overpriced Jeep versions of some of the Stellantis platforms, with good utility but crap aerodynamics, and people will complain that they're not real rugged Jeeps for their manly off-roading adventures. Carmakers seem hell-bent on convincing everyone in North America that they need a three-row SUV tank on 30-inch tires 😢.
That dash looks rather overbearing and in-the-way. Your point about the demister control is very apt - there are some functions in any car that one needs to access like yesterday and that’s one: you suddenly get fogged up in traffic on the freeway and the LAST thing you need is a nest of menus! It does rather look as if a handful of designers’ committees were each tasked with different bits of the car though and those wheels! Nice review, Robert.
Now the negatives... have to pay extra for the heat pump, very little room in the back, seats are manual, rear windows dont go all the way down amd 4 month waiting time for new orders.
European manufacturers are desperate not to scalp their ICE vehicles because they have huge, unionised factories churning out petrol engines, drivetrains and the rest. That unionisation (and Im a huge fan of unions, believe me) is a huge headache for them so they hobble sales of their EVs by charging a deliberately high premium for them. If they went all in they'd have major strikes across their network in days. It's tough. But one day they HAVE to bite that bullet.
Mine also has one (Cupra Born), but you don't need to use it. Brake + D/R to go, Parking button when you've done to stop. I got the feeling the people deciding on the buttons, were not talking with the people doing the software, so they just put one in as that's what other cars had!
@@TheBoothy666 oh yeah for sure, it's a stock button being reused for mulitple vehicles. It's just funny, it's like they would have put an "Unleaded fuel only"-sticker on the inside of the charging port cover.
I have the same question, if the hybrid is cheaper and more complicated than an electric one, but it is cheaper - when the electric one will be at the price of the hybrid one, then I think the electric one is worth it, but otherwise it is the Tesla model y that has the best price and quality - Peugeot e 3008 if it were under £35k it would be interesting but at £47,595 the GT model - Tesla instantly ))))
2130kg, not 2600kg "if you've got a pen and some paper, you can work that out". You're journalists. Fact checking & working things out is your job. This is subpar for a channel this size.
Nice car. I'm sure owners will love it. Let's hope the influx of cheaper Chinese cars forces the traditional firms to price their cars sensibly instead of doing their best to rip off the public as they've been used to for years.
Somehow, Robert managed to invert himself: in the first half, he was sitting in a driver's seat on the right, and in the second half, he was on the left. Maybe a crack in the space-time continuum..?
I met a French Peugeot dealer on vacation last year. He told me that he was doing everything he could not to sell electric cars at the moment, because repairing and maintaining combustion-powered cars was (very) profitable for his garage and preparing for his retirement (in 5 years' time), when he could finally buy his Porsche 911. I swear it's true!
Yeah wonder if it was a good move for them to go electric because the powertrain will finally be reliable and put the dealers out of business lol
Peugeot stand at everything electric show in Sydney had so much information on there car's also free coffee lol . Nice car . Keep smiling everyone
I drive a 2020 Peugeot 3008 Allure and I absolutely love it so much. If I had the money, I would without any doubt get this all new Peugeot 3008e or even a future Hybrid model. It’s not just about the price but rather the joy and experiance you get out of getting a Peugeot. Well super done Peugeot and what a brilliant review by such a capable and may I add, super knowledgeable person. ❤
Hmm ... seeing as Quentin is reasonably well informed ref the retail aspect of the car trade then it might be useful to quiz him on the groundswell of feelings within the main dealership community.
If the above comment was true then it would be interesting to hear Quentin's views ... it wouldn't take long to see him attempt to duck the question and do the disinformation thing.
There again we hear of the quite impressive fines to be imposed of dealers fail to meet targets in UK.
Definitely worth hearing what Quentin has to say on this topic, in this instance.
Who knew main dealerships could lose money? That is a surprise.
Come on Robert and Quentin, kindly do an online debate on that dealership issue.
And include the swing in car manufacturers' policy apropos their new stance on retaining ICE units converted to burn hydrogen.
Dealerships might quite the idea on the grounds ICE units are thoroughly understood and would require servicing in the established way.
Might also be a wheeze to avoid paying for the retraining/upskilling of the resident mechanics.
Could be "invisible" benefits as in our roads wouldn't get such a kicking from the weight of millions of battery EVs, and suffer less from self igniting battery packs, plus reducing the risk of multistorey car parks collapsing at inconvenient moments, which they certainly will do if every car ends up loaded with hundreds of pounds weight of batteries.
Using converted ICE units running on hydrogen or ammonia (Google is your friend) might well be a useful compromise in going green, avoiding the build up of CO2 in our atmosphere and prevent the sea lapping over your doormats.
No, really you're welcome.
Yeah because electrics on a car are highly reliable 🤔 what a crazy comment.
Really really like Jack and Imogen for new EV coverage, but when Rob comes back for a bit for his take, it's just that special 😀
Nice to see Robert do a review again. I do quite enjoy Jack and Imogen as well, but it's great to see the original back in action every once in a while.
With Jack on hols, suddenly the cars look huge!
This is true, I laugh when I watch tiny female presenters tell me there's loadsa legroom in the rear with their driving position and compare with Jack, who has to eat his own legs to fit in. Maybe we need Gwendoline Christie to do some test drives?
@@HairyCheese it's a big problem that we don't have a standardized yardstick in the two meter range. I have no idea how big this car is, or any of the EVs at Chinese car shows! Equipment reviewers used to put a CD or DVD in the shot so people could tell how big it was. Some rules:
1. Every car presenter must disclose their height (in the shoes they're wearing).
2. Every car review needs to pose a standardized cut-out of 170 cm (5 ft 7 inch) tall "Essex man" next to the car and presenter.
And suddenly the videos become watchable
love the way it converts to left hand drive while stationary
I thought I was crazy for a moment, yes. What a marvellous tech nowadays.
This confused the shit out of me
Glad it wasn't just me then!
It is a new French technology
@@Φλωρος-Θωμασου-Ξ5Ξ It also happens automatically when you cross the Eurotunnel. *BAM* Magic!
Always wonderful when Robert reviews a new vehicle. Very thorough and very relaxed.
Did he mention the charging AC & DC speeds ?
As for thorough, to me it was more a general preview rather than a review. He mentioned some technical stats repeatedly (range, not entirely fitting the official number) while leaving out others (charging speed), not commenting on materials or seat space or ride quality etc.
You are right to question the £10k premium over a hybrid, which has a battery, motor, engine, auto gearbox, cooling system and more complex electronics to cope. I really hope we don’t raise duties on Chinese cars as Europe needs that competition to drive down prices. We know battery prices have dropped significantly, so is this car companies just trying it on while they can get away with it, hoping governments will penalise cheap imports from more efficient companies. And yes I know they are subsidised, but so is the oil industry and which is the better use of our money? Investing in a sunset technology or helping pioneer new industries that will help us compete. Australia has woken up to this, so should we.
its simple free market economics .... they are priced according to the competition, they know the hybrid has to be competitive with other hybrid cars ....
also it can be cheap because the battery is 1/5th the size and ice engines/hybrid systems don't need billions sunk in to research, bev's do for now
“It’s a car!”
- Robert Lwlwlynwl 2024
Actually that's the aim, isn't it? Not weird, not scary, not niche. Just a car
That's about it. Dull as ditch water.
It's not though it's got the kerbweight of a truck in the higher specified models.
2.5 tonnes should never be normal for a device to move one person around the majority of the time.
@@stevenbilclough2563 everyone's primary vehicle should be an e-bike and public transport. Then decide how much vehicle you really need for your second one, if any. If you live in a big town there are ride hailing, car shares, short-term truck and van rentals, and soon robotaxis.
Before people respond with their 50 mile commutes in rain and towing a boat to a lake 500 miles away: you're a minority! Kids in towns today will grow up using e-bikes and electric scooters and many will never bother getting a driver's license.
@@stevenbilclough2563 yep, but... ...it's a car.
Wh/m? Not mentioned. peak charge rate? Not mentioned. Rear seat adult comfort? Not mentioned. OTA capability? Not mentioned. These are all important points when choosing an EV. Design language is subjective (although the French brands do excell there)
battery size? maybe i missed it.
@@xiaoka 73kWh (mentioned at least twice, so yes you did :-).
I reckon the version with and ICE included, is cheaper because they want to sell more. They know the dealers will be happier, in turn knowing they’ll recoup the rest in ongoing repair & servicing costs.
maybe the oil company pays them a bonus if there's a gas engine included...
The rrp is never the actual price paid for EVs.
This car is our first EV. Just ordered it Saturday.
It so refreshing to see it not got a big iPad stuck in the middle.
We got a 3008 1.2 GT Last time on mobility. This time
Peugeot seems to be pushing their electric vehicle range for mobility. We got our test drive next Tuesday looking forwards to it. First time driving a ev plus I’ve never driven an automatic befit so it should be interesting.
Anyway Peugeot are definitely going in the right direction with there EV’s
48,000 euros? ...so many solid alternatives already on the market for under 35,000 euros
Agreed and secondly, in the UK, you'll get stung buying one second hand after 3 years with the 'expensi e car' tax 😅 and that's on top of 'normal' road tax.
Solid alternatives for under 22-20k euros.
That price is ridiculous.
that is why French are in favor of EU tarriff on Chinese EVs, because they can not compete but still want to rip off consumers!
Agreed price is crazy, but RRP is not the only factor in lease/PCP deals which is how most acquired cars. It's success will all boil down to the monthlies.
That display placement is FANTASTIC. That is SO much better than both keeping things around the steering column and putting a screen to the lower right. WAY BETTER. I'd like all cars to have that now. The base as EV thing is a great thing as well. The hood is of course stupid, as in so many (almost all) cars now, since almost all are SUV shaped. If we must have the massive unnecessary front hood, can we not slope it down 15 degrees? Would that kill the marketing guys?
Car companies fear that buyers dislike the egg-shaped grille-less look of the Tesla Model X and Model Y. And if your only idea to market a car is to show a bloated vehicle tearing around trails in the middle of nowhere with mud and rocks and sand flying, you end up making boxy Defender/G wagen/Jeep copies that look rugged, visibility and aerodynamics be damned.
@@skierpage I think you are absolutely correct... but it's really destructive ("Tall Vehicle Hoods Really Are Increasing Pedestrian Deaths" -- Wired 2024), and wastes interior space, parking space, and means we have very little flexibility of design.
2.6 TONS.
The weights are getting absurd.
Correct. I'm betting the cooling system is a total cumbersome mess.
It was a mistake. It's 2.1 tons unladen.
The Scenic E-Tech is noticeably lighter 🙂.
about+/- 2130 kg but still too much weight for modest electric cruiser,(s class fully from 2002 was 2070kg with v6 engine, thinking about weight will be the most common issue to get future energysaving journeys,not up to task to drive 100 km under 16kwh spending
-this will matter more in couple years to have a car with 1500 or with over 2000kg
IT IS NOT 2,6 TONS
e208 was available at 50% discount recently (Bulk deal), shows how much margin they have available in each vehicle.
Generally speaking, the margin on a car is quite low. The real margin is made on parts.
At 50% off no-one is making money, this is loss leading to shift excess stock.
or they're taking massive hit on them as no one wants to pay obscene amount of money for car that limits your journeys to around town.
I went to look ar a used e208 yesterday, about £12k for a 3/4 year old car but sadly as I'm 6 foot 1" it seemed a bit cramped for me coming from a Focus - but looks so much better than the Vauxhall version
Lease is just about up on my e208. Cracking little car to drive around for the last 3 years. If you're getting one for 50% off list then I'd say go for it. It's stupidly quick in sport mode and if you just pootle around in eco you'll get near enough 200 miles in fair weather. I regularly see 5/6 miles per kilowatt.
I've decided to adopt Robert as my second dad.
And me.
Me also please
Grandad
does your first dad know about this? even more importantly, does your mom know about this new arrangement?
@@xiaoka Good point. I may need to adopt a few more dads to normalise the situation.
What’s wrong with physical buttons?
Physical is nice. Physical is good. Physical is inexpensive to maintain. Physical doesn’t need you to look at it to operate it.
They are more expensive than a "screen" and adding / removing them can't be done with a software update.
It's sad, as these blank screens have absolutely no haptic feedback.
More buttons means more complexity, more costs and more potential problems.
100%. all this 'everything in the screen' is crap, distracting and dangerous
Agree 100% I won't drive a Tesla until they bring back physical controls which Euro NCAP may effectively force them to do from 2026 onwards as NCAP are going to downgrade the safety ratings of cars that depend on touchscreen HUI. Eye's off tactile discovery controls are so much more intuitive and safer to use. Touchscreen mania is not about innovation or better, its about cheap cost cutting .
@@jantjarks7946Yep and they can ask money for the those buttons afterwards, if the screen stops you are f.... out of luck and 10K out of the pocket. An example - "Peugeot + adds buttons, otherwise you can use them once per drive." Just like BMW's heating seats.
Also so dangerous to use. You got glare, no feedback, some of them change places depending on the mode or screen, it's just stupid.
I can't believe we live in a time when a tactile button is a great step forward
😂😂😂😂😅
alternative tacts!
Ugh touchscreens.
You know they only do that because its cheaper than using proper buttons. Its not about luxury or usability... its about cheapness.
What Robert said by the end is exactly my thought about Stellantis.
It’s completely insane the price difference between their ICE and EV cars. And once we consider the amount of brands they have to share the costs between, it makes it even crazier!
I like the feature where the paintwork changes colour. Perfect for losing a tail.
I missed your unique presenting style Robert, welcome back to car reviews :)
I didn't.
In a Tesla Model 3, you don't need to look at the display to clean the windshield... just press and hold the left stalk-button.
To wipe only once, simply press once. This also brings up the wiper pop-up, where you can use the steering wheel buttons to go through modes.
(in the latest models that sadly don't have stalks anymore, the same works afaik with the wiper-button on the wheel)
To indicate right press a button that could be anywhere around the steering wheel. If you have not kept up with where it has moved to then just go and do not indicate. Maybe make a video of the Tesla repair process and experience.
Is it really 2.6 tons? So much heavier and more expensive than the competition.
No is 2100kg
@@tochukwuezinwa2122 you're right. It's only 2.6 tons when full of heavy people and their luggage. Why do they not fact check their videos?
@@lemagnitio72 It is an SUV so all the people are morbidly obese (to go with the car). Four people 125Kg apiece makes up the 1/2 tonne. Leave it for a couple of hours and they would have sweated off 10Kg but it would still be heavy.
The price is what's removed this from any consideration and I have a 3008. I'll probably end up with an Ioniq 5 once the new ones with rear wipers come out.
Indeed, the e3008 is wiper-less.
The Ioniq 5 N has a rear wiper! And 641 horsepower. And a sound setting where every time the wiper goes back and forth a V12 engine revs up and down 😉.
Wait until they’ve fixed the 12V battery issue that plagues the Ioniq 5 model specifically.
If you are looking at this size of car, also consider the offerings from Citroën, Hyundai (Kona 2 & Ioniq 5), Kia (Niro & EV6) and Peugeot (E2008 & this the E3008)- all are similar, I went for the Hyundai Kona 2 as it fitted better for my needs.
I would add Renault's scenic.
Honestly, every time a new electric Stellantis product comes out I am baffled at the pricing. It makes zero sense.
i guess the expception is e-c3 for less then 25k
Remember when Sergio Marchionne said "dont' buy the Fiat 500e"? Maybe they really don't want us to buy these either.
Sure the hybrid is cheaper, probably a much smaller battery pack. As an engineer I strongly dislike hybrids as they are the most complex of the three options, and I’ve owned them all three. I’m all electric now since 2016.
Love your work, Robert, but you can put a de-mist button onto the docking bar at the bottom of your Model 3 screen. No menus, no multi presses, just a simple windscreen de-mist icon, always on display that you press when you need it. You mention menus etc often, but you can have 5 control features showing on your M3 screen and the great thing is you can choose what those are :) On mine I have front demist, rear demist, Apple Music, phone & rear camera, but it could be anything you’d like ;)
Nice to see you back Robert. Hopefully see you do more car reviews in future as well whether anyone is on holidays or not.
The next anyone sees Robert at an event PLEASE tell him that in his model 3, all he has to do is say ‘Defogger on’ to activate the windscreen demister. I’ve seen him complain several times about having to go into menus lol😅
I think he must have an issue with his car ... I leave the HVAC on auto on mine and never have to activate anything!
Even with the prices of batteries going down, I guess a lot of legacy automakers are still stuck with expensive battery supply deals they struck in panic, when they realized that they might not be able to get hold of enough of them.
Great to see a new host. Please host more Robert.
If you buy the petrol or hybrid version then Peugeot will be continuing to make loads of profit with all the servicing and parts and labour, to keep those petrol engines going, hence the pure electric version has to be more expensive to buy.
That argument never works for me. The money for servicing goes to the dealer, not the manufacturer.
@@Stiggy767 The manufacturer makes the (original) replacement parts / gets a license fee for replacement parts made. And I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer pays for every customer that keeps their car maintained at the dealer. A lot of manufacturers have incentives like: 'maintain at our dealers, and get your warranty extended'. They wouldn't do that if they would get nothing in return from the dealers.
Always enjoy Robert's reviews.
Far prefer his to Jack's
We want more Robert car reviews! Well done for calling out the fact that the electric version is overpriced compared to the petrol versions.
Brother reminded me that Robert was the one-legged guy in Bottom. Great show 😂
Efficiency is the key to more range in an EV and we keep making small but valuable discoveries. Loved Roberts review of the car and it is nice to see a new take on the cockpit area.
My new Model 3 RWD has the button to wash the windscreen, nice and easy to find, on the steering wheel!
I love Robert [Jack too] great to see him back out reviewing cars.
"The amount of miles you can travel on a kWh is constantly increasing" *Classic Ioniq has entered the chat*
With the introduction of tariffs up to 38% on Chinese cars the price pressure has just been lifted on European car maker’s prices!
Finally an EV with proper buttons, this has been the main gripe with a lot of EV's
I'm excited for this car.
46k for a Peugeot? really when a Tesla model Y is 44K, you'd have to be a real fan of French cars
Actually I think the Peugeots are better made and far nicer inside and outside. The Teslas feel like appliances. Peugeots just feel more like cars.
@@edwardlloyd1516I know this is very subjective but I couldn't disagree more. Every Peugeot I've ever driven, post 90s, feels utter rubbish.
Columbo is the only fan of French cars. He's fiction!
@@esm7708 How about some more information rather than a wild generalisation.
@@allanbriggs9007 it's not wild at all.
I honestly can't think of one.
Although I do have soft spot for big French saloons.
So Stelantis Stella platform is actually good, it has potential for future products from it
Keep up with great work Fully Charged team 😊❤❤
Hey Robert, pro tip: push the right scroll wheel and say "defrost on."
No whining allowed. Thank you.
The price difference to the hybrid is because Peugeot can make the money back with the oil changes & other maintenance.
3 years total service cost on the hybrid works out about £350 more than the EV .
@@bordersw1239 Some manufacturers seem to be manufacturing "service requirements" for EVs so maybe this is what makes the difference smaller than it would otherwise be.
Amusing to see Robert switch from a right-hand drive car to a left-hand drive car during the video.
The price issue is because of volume, they are expecting to sell more hybrids so can get volume savings. Of course if the prices were adjusted ....
I recently saw a quote from Tesla for a battery replacement for $3500 including fitting, and I'm sure they are not making a loss. The hybrid motor must cost about $1000 or more. I could understand if there was a 1 to 2 grand difference, similar to difference between cost of petrol to diesel engines, but 10 grand is robbery.
Anything to drag the customer back to the dealer!
@@francisboyle1739I wonder if Peugeot gives dealers a higher profit margin on BEV's so they're more willing to shift the battery tin that doesn't require nearly as much service.
Current battery prices are 139 dollars per kwh. So 77 kwh (73 kwh usable) = $ 10700. There is no petrol engine, but it does need power electronics for the electric motor and charging, a water cooling system for the batteries and a heat pump. In the Netherlands the price difference is € 7000, not 10 grand. Add subsidies, lower running costs and less maintenance and it looks quite good.
Great video Robert,
I presume it's a quiet drive but as you said too expensive, BTW can u not just tell the Tesla "demist the windscreen" ??
You forgot to show how small the space is on the back seats 😞 That car is heavy (but not 2.6 tons as you showed 😛), aero as a washing machine, expensive, what did I miss ? The Scenic looks so much better on the paper...
It seems to me that Stellantis doesn't want to do good EVs...
BUT that was nice to watch, thank you Robert ! Always happy in an EV ! (I should trademark that sentence and sell stickers)
If the automakers didn't keep dropping electric cars and releasing electric SUVs instead, they wouldn't need such massive batteries for the same range, and they'd stop being so overpriced.
Maybe, but the people want SUVs (I myself want a SUV), so the automakers make and sell SUVs
When buying Peugeot, the best strategy was to wait a few years and buy a used one at half of the price ...and now, with their new prices this high it makes even more sense.
Demister button, a huge step forward.
I share your sarcasm. When car fundamentals are so-so, all they can do is add a bunch of shiny buttons and hope for irrational buyers. Anyways, wish them luck. The bigger choice of EV models is better.
Which of the two cars you drove was best??
Robert you must have forgot you press the left stalk end button to activate the wiper in the Tesla Model 3/Y. Granted to change the setting you need to use the screen but IMO it's no big deal.
This car seems a lot more sensible on the button front than the e2008 we test drove a few years ago.
And speaking of buttons and lack thereof in Teslas: You can choose to have a few quick access functions along the bottom of the screen - I've put the demisting function as one of them in our Model S - it halves the number of presses required to activate it from two to one.
Nice video and interesting car!
The main problem of WLTP is not being unprecisem but being used for the wrong thing. It was not designed to estimate the range of a car, but it's average consumption. For range you need the motorway consumption (unless you are a taxi driver 😉), which for electric cars is much higher than city or other roads.
A lion has a total of 18 claws. Each paw has five claws on the front paws (one of which is a so-called "dew claw" that does not touch the ground when the lion walks) and four claws on the hind paws. This gives a total of 10 claws on the front paws and 8 claws on the back paws.
Now you've given Peugeot an idea for the startup animation of their EVs. The OLED central logo and the lighting "claws" will look and sound like the MGM movie lion.
So lions are overall four-wheel drive, but primarily front-wheel drive?
That car even shapeshifts! - RHD to LHD - turquoise to grey....
Chevy originally came out with the Volt, which was an electric car with a small battery (38 miles in the 2010 1g, 53 miles in the 2016 2g) and a fairly large engine (1.5l 4-cyl @ 149HP, 45 US mpg) in lieu of the rest of the battery, which produced electricity but only after the battery ran down. Very nice car, albeit not roomy. Then when batteries got cheaper, they stopped making it to concentrate on battery-only EVs.
I fell in love with the e208 when i sat in it but brand new they are about double my budget, but we're starting to see some at a reasonable price on second hand market and imported second hand from japan too for around NZD30,000 which is promising. by the time i save my pennies though i imagine they'll be cheaper still. let's see if i manage to get one before i fall in love with another car :D
The E-3008 is awesome and I wish we could see them coming to the US.
A quick Tesla tip Robert. You can put the front and rear demist icons in the bar at the bottom of the screen so you don’t have to go into the heater menu.
What a step forward is a physical button for cleaning the windows. No it's a step backwards for no buttons. And people are excited about it. That us stupid. How customers allowed those screen buttons is just mind blowing. It just shows how easy people are manipulated to sacrifice their comfort and safety just to be cool.
You definetly feel the difference between Eco/Normal/Sport mode in the e-2008 were the gas response in Sport are more responsive and the steering heavier than the other modes. I bet it's the same in the e-3008.
Peugeot built their first electric car in 1942.
It was called the VLV and it was designed as a small city car for the French public who could afford it and were permitted, to get around during the occupation and very strict fuel rationing.
7:41 "It's just a car"
That made me think.... When will the first generation grow up that won't say "electric car" but just "car"? Have they been born already?
It's the same with mobile phones. I'm old, so I call it a "mobile phone". But for some time, the generation that have grown up with mobile phones from an early age and have grown up in a world where almost no one has a landline anymore, just calls them "phones".
Happy Thursday
🔥Love The Channel🔥
Friday in New Zealand....
@@johnhornblow4347 Happy Friday
After using a e2008 for 3 years and experiencing it just stopping 3 times 2 of the occasions in very busy live traffic I will never drive a Peugeot EV again. The problem was a wiring problem over the back wheel and in my opinion all e2008 should have been taken of the roads and recalled.
let’s face it a Peugeot EB is a competent car. It’s a car that you could buy and felt confident that it would do what you expected to do but it doesn’t really knock your socks off.
This small crossover with such a large battery should have a longer range.
1) I'm really surprised that Robert didn't mention the magic button that switches the steering wheel to the other side - he obviously pressed it at about 9:20, but never mentioned it 😆
2) I assume that the £10k price hike for the electric version is 100% because they can get away with it. There is no way that it costs them that much more to make.
3) Don't expect the Chinese to rescue us - the western auto-makers have already persuaded the European and 'Merkin governments to slap huge tariffs on Chinese EVs on the basis that "they are more expensive than our models, so they MUST be subsidizing them!"
I think you mean "less expensive." The Chinese government has given billions in all kinds of incentives to its EV industry, starting years before Europe and the USA. European and American legacy car makers seem to be threatening governments "We'll slow investing billions in EVs and instead keep selling the polluting crap unless you guarantee us profits" while doing nothing to counter the "EVs are bad! nobody wants EVs" hysteria. They're planning to fail.
Impressive review the look of the car has grown on me but
The price is eye-watering and the front seat isn't even electric,
Correction it weighs 2100kg
Haptic buttons / touch screens are balls. Doesn't matter if it gives some feedback or not, the driver still has to look down to see where they're sticking their finger and that it's in the right mode. Totally defeats the safety benefit & convenience of muscle memory and physical controls. That doesn't mean the cabin has to be cluttered with buttons and knobs, but if the basics such as aircon/temp, heaters aren't physical then it's bad design.
It annoys me when car companies chamfer the back of the car off like this, then add the little spoiler to fix the bad aero they've just created. It reduces the internal volume, makes it more expensive, and makes the aero compromised. But they say it makes it look nicer or something? Really? It just tells me what their priorities are, and that it's probably not a car for me. Good heuristic to weed out the cars not worth my time.
On the price problem at the end, what about the proposed increasing tariffs on Chinese cars - apparently the MG4 could go from £26k to £36k...
You either way buy a subpar legacy EV or a Tesla. Otherwise you will have to wait until Geely built a factory in Europe, which will take a few years, and buy the newest, even more compelling MG4.
That's basically the options available.
🤷
Robert, as you once (or twice) called him.. Where is that "swine" (Jack) gone for his well deserved holidays? 😂😂😂
Oh Robert.. You always make me laugh. Thank you my friend.
Good point about the pricing vs the hybrid. The obvious answer is the legacy car companies are still desperately trying to cling on to their traditional dealership business model of long term residual income from expensive parts and servicing of petrol cars.
nice pretty suv type coupe back but THINK THE WIDE SCREEN directly under your vision by steering wheel is a little distracting when you drive along , just saying
thanks got that guy is on holiday and we can have Robert observing cars
Thankyou for this review. Please do more car reviews.
Interesting to see this Peugeot vs the Renault Scenic BEV.
The Reno is much better
rear wiper!
You forgot to mention the "colour changing paint" option! ;-)
The steering wheel changes back to the left-hand side (where all the smart parts of the world have it) when Robert gets out of the car!
Not sure where you have been this last 5 years or so but the (obvious) reason the hybrid is cheaper than the EV version is because Peugeot won't be earning a sou from servicing the EV version for 10 years+.
Come on ROB!! This is why *no* 'legacy' car-maker wants to sell EVS!
Robert reviews >
Simple reason for the hybrid costing less to buy: They're trying to keep selling petrol cars, to please the oils companies.
Love the cost summary! Smiley smiley smiley STAB
America needs Peugeot.
Stellantis is also RAM, Chrysler, Jeep, Alfa Romeo, etc.
But the French do have the ruling command there.
@@DanRyzESPUK America will get not-especially-compact overpriced Jeep versions of some of the Stellantis platforms, with good utility but crap aerodynamics, and people will complain that they're not real rugged Jeeps for their manly off-roading adventures. Carmakers seem hell-bent on convincing everyone in North America that they need a three-row SUV tank on 30-inch tires 😢.
That dash looks rather overbearing and in-the-way. Your point about the demister control is very apt - there are some functions in any car that one needs to access like yesterday and that’s one: you suddenly get fogged up in traffic on the freeway and the LAST thing you need is a nest of menus!
It does rather look as if a handful of designers’ committees were each tasked with different bits of the car though and those wheels!
Nice review, Robert.
Mr. Llewellyn, I still am more drawn to your car reviews than Jack's. You pay attention to the things I care about and I get more out of your reviews.
Now the negatives... have to pay extra for the heat pump, very little room in the back, seats are manual, rear windows dont go all the way down amd 4 month waiting time for new orders.
I would like to see the back sits but it was a good review. I think the reason for the high price is to open space to e-2008 car.
European manufacturers are desperate not to scalp their ICE vehicles because they have huge, unionised factories churning out petrol engines, drivetrains and the rest. That unionisation (and Im a huge fan of unions, believe me) is a huge headache for them so they hobble sales of their EVs by charging a deliberately high premium for them.
If they went all in they'd have major strikes across their network in days.
It's tough. But one day they HAVE to bite that bullet.
In Australia the smaller E 2008 Peugeot dropped the price from $65,000 to $40,000...
Electric cars with an "Engine start/stop"-button always cracks me up. 😂
Mine also has one (Cupra Born), but you don't need to use it. Brake + D/R to go, Parking button when you've done to stop.
I got the feeling the people deciding on the buttons, were not talking with the people doing the software, so they just put one in as that's what other cars had!
@@TheBoothy666 oh yeah for sure, it's a stock button being reused for mulitple vehicles. It's just funny, it's like they would have put an "Unleaded fuel only"-sticker on the inside of the charging port cover.
I have the same question, if the hybrid is cheaper and more complicated than an electric one, but it is cheaper - when the electric one will be at the price of the hybrid one, then I think the electric one is worth it, but otherwise it is the Tesla model y that has the best price and quality - Peugeot e 3008 if it were under £35k it would be interesting but at £47,595 the GT model - Tesla instantly ))))
2130kg, not 2600kg
"if you've got a pen and some paper, you can work that out".
You're journalists. Fact checking & working things out is your job.
This is subpar for a channel this size.
Nice car. I'm sure owners will love it. Let's hope the influx of cheaper Chinese cars forces the traditional firms to price their cars sensibly instead of doing their best to rip off the public as they've been used to for years.
Thanks
Somehow, Robert managed to invert himself: in the first half, he was sitting in a driver's seat on the right, and in the second half, he was on the left. Maybe a crack in the space-time continuum..?