NB: Susato whistles (and Dixons too) are not made out of PVC, they're made out of moulded ABS plastic. The same plastic that Generation type plastic heads are made of, although there can be slightly different mixes of the component parts of ABS plastic.
Thanks for the correction! I think ABS is a bit harder and more rigid than PVC, and that will have a bit of an effect on the sound. They say PVC is better at muffling water noise than ABS when used in plumbing.
The main characteristic of susato whistles is the thickness of the walls of the material, i am quite sure that is what brings the loud sound and the need for a strong breath in high notes, in comparison to the other plastic whistles. Once i read a person say that "Susatos sounds like a recorder but powered by a rocket" XD quite right... By the way... there has anyone checked out the Woodi brand? kind of imitate the susato geometry, but i think they lack of the rubber ring, so those do not seal very well, unless the customer put some tape in the joint... i guess
There are numerous variables involved in sound quality not just materials or windway design fipple ...also size of finger holes,their finish....the thickness of the bore ....the plug material of the mouth piece ....the smoothness of the internal bore etc.. .
Size of the window, distance from the bezel to the windway end, diameter of tube and thickness of the walls of material, how well sealed is the joint, etc. everything afects the quality and characteristics of the sound, really love to learn the differences from every kind of whistles
Sarah Jeffrey over at Team Recorder did a comparison between the different woods of the Moeck Rottenburgh intermediate range of alto recorders - maple, pear, box, rosewood and grenadilla - and I could tell the difference between most of them. Only the box and rosewood were difficult to separate. On the other hand, I couldn't tell the difference between a 700 Euro Yamaha flute and another costing 20,000 Euros. There are so many differences between whistles that the material is a lesser factor, although I can hear a difference between the brass and nickel plated Killarneys and whistles do generally fall into the 'metallic' or 'woody' brackets.
Thanks Nathaniel for a very interesting video. I was very much surprised by the difference in sound between the two heads of the Carbony C. The newer version does take away a lot of the breathy, airy sound. That was why I never was interested in them. I like whistles with very little airiness. I also agree with you that while the material of the body will make "some" difference" that you are spot on about the geometry of the whistle being the predominate factor in sound/tone differences. The mind can play tricks on you as you stated and can prejudice you for or against a whistle due to what it's made of or who made it. If you ever get the time it sure would be interesting to do a blind test of some of your whistles. You can tell us what whistles you will be playing but not the order. Put up a partial screen block or play off screen so that we can't know what you are playing. A week later after we have tried to guess the order played you can reveal to us what the playing order was. Thanks again for taking time to make all these useful videos for us to enjoy.
You have touched upon a somewhat thorny subject. two of the other whistle tutors/commentators have compared different whistles recently, often having been supplied with a "free" whistle with "no obligations" for comment. Strangely all such whistles are deemed ok, quite nice etc etc. They all are played for comparison, well the simple fact is that highly competent players such as yourself and the others indicated could make a drainpipe sound good!! I have a Brass D Killarney which I really like and enjoy playing compared to my earlier generation/Walton's etc it is a professional quality instrument as opposed to a mass produced playable whistle. Where I find difficulty is in that there are copies of the Killarney (which itself was I believe a copy of the Sindt) in the form of the Wild , Setanta and now the Lir each time a "free whistle" is compared, on these sites , it seems to be the "bees knees" of whistles. I suspect that in reality any differences are extremely minor, especially in the hands of expert musicians, but it would be nice if those minor differences were adequately explored. The Wild, the lir are priced the same, the Setanta nearly double the price of a Killarney, I was tempted to try the latter, but especially have listened to your comments today ,where does quality really lie, are there any meaningful differences or is it simply at the end of the day, personal preference, Mary Bergin, one of the best whistle players ever ,played a generation whistle!!
For me, what makes a whistle "better" than a Generation are things like tuning, tactile qualities (i.e. being able to push notes harder), and tone (smoother, thicker, more depth). An excellent whistle player can make cheap stock whistles sing, but some of the more expensive whistles are simply a joy to play. I've played the Killarney, Setanta (all brass), and the Wild. There are definitely marked differences in how they play. Of the three, the Killarney is my favorite. It's a little nasally, but it's so smooth and sparkling and effortless. The Setanta is earthy, but too muffled sounding and the while the Wild is more open than the Killarney, it lacks the crispness and immediacy of tone. However, all of them really are fine whistles that should offer a noticable upgrade in tone and playability from a stock Generation, but you're deep into personal preference territory when talking about which is "best". As for the Lír, everyone seems to love it, but the sound clips I've heard haven't been enticing. I'm sure it's another fine flavor of Sindt-style whistle, but the market is a bit too crowded for me to test them all. I'm pretty happy with my wider bore Burke anyway.
I have often thought it would be interesting and instructive for a reviewer to compare whistles by sound alone, not naming the maker or showing the whistle which is being played. Then listeners could comment on the sound quality after which it would be revealed which whistles were being played.
I'd add one advantage of synthetic whistles. I like to snack while I practice. A synthetic whistle may be rinsed in under the faucet, something I'd not do with a high end brass or aluminum like Reyburn or Bruke. These whistles are played snack free. I'm very concerned with your t-shirt. I have seen quite a few dads sporting one. Will there be a galactic showdown to see who is the One Best Dad?
I have an ebonite and a mopane high d by McManus, and yes, they sound about the same. There is a very very subtle difference between them that changes depending on how long ago I oiled the mopane, and I suspect the resonance in the skull of the player amplifies that as I don't truly believe it to be noticeable by others. To me, the mopane just sounds a tiny bit softer, the ebonite cleaner. The mopane takes on a really nice sweetness between oilings, but muffles to softness when freshly oiled. It's kind of neat how it can change that way, I either didn't notice it when I first got it, or it took time to develop. Makers give you instructions for breaking it in that even limit how long you can play it, so they must have their reasons for the slow break in period. There IS however a difference in playing, breath requirements, backpressure etc. I have to play the two slightly differently from each other. I can't choose between the two even though they're so close, I haven't decided which I prefer. They are both absolutely gorgeous one of a kind pieces of art, highly figured mopane which I've not seen on other whistles (thank you Roy) and a one off ebonite he had in charcoal hot pink and green. Every time I think of saying anything like maybe I'd trade the mopane for another in a different key, I think to myself, but I love the difference in HOW it plays, and I don't want to lose that. I'm slowly turning into Gollum and these are my precious. Incidentally, I never liked the sound of the carbony whistles, and thought it was maybe from the tapered geometry (I also don't like sweetones and thought was for the same reason but am rethinking that), but the other head on yours, no, it's not, and I'm surprised by that. I quite like the sound of the new head. I actually have a different brand carbon whistle myself, I kinda like them, it's so light compared to my other low D.
I've been in that same boat with two very similar whistles. I couldn't decide between the brass or aluminum Burke C. I eventually sold the brass, then immediately wished I'd sold the aluminum instead. The difference between them was subtle, but tangible.
@@NathanielDowell hahaha this is exactly my worry! I don't have 15 others I also love as much, just a few less expensive ones, so I don't mind holding onto the two of them. I just need to be careful not to keep adding more. Your videos are great for hearing new whistles though, thanks! I will say it was your comments on your ebonite whistle that helped me pick McManus, as I also liked some of the other whistles you play. Living in the desert I was afraid to buy a wood whistle due to the humidity issues here, but I bought it thinking I just wanted to try it for myself and then would sell it. Nope, not happening. Roy had a beautiful piece of wood he wanted to turn for me, and I'm hanging onto it, and taking the best care of it. Despite humidity typically in the 30s, it's doing well, even though it lives inside of a ziplock bag to try to keep a little humidity in! If it one day splits I'll be heartbroken, but I'm going to love it for as long as I can!
Unfortunately, no. I worked in steel detailing for 11 years, but I got into software development back in 2019 through a coding boot camp. Music is just a cherished hobby for me.
I also tried my hand at being an author/illustrator. My children's book is still up on Amazon if you are interested. www.amazon.com/Skeleton-Ghost-Nathaniel-James-Dowell/dp/1979121729
Wrong.....the material of the whistle is not just a container of the sound .. sound waves flow along the inner face material of the whistle and interact with it ...and effect the sound production, get it right .... yes the windway,fipple also effect the sound !
@@NathanielDowell No your wrong ... I've looked again at your u tube video and you say ,"the material of the whistle is just a container for that sound" you emphasise the windway as being the most important part of sound production.....which is wrong !
![Pointers in C / C++ [Full Course]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zuegQmMdy8M/mqdefault.jpg)
NB: Susato whistles (and Dixons too) are not made out of PVC, they're made out of moulded ABS plastic. The same plastic that Generation type plastic heads are made of, although there can be slightly different mixes of the component parts of ABS plastic.
Thanks for the correction! I think ABS is a bit harder and more rigid than PVC, and that will have a bit of an effect on the sound. They say PVC is better at muffling water noise than ABS when used in plumbing.
The main characteristic of susato whistles is the thickness of the walls of the material, i am quite sure that is what brings the loud sound and the need for a strong breath in high notes, in comparison to the other plastic whistles. Once i read a person say that "Susatos sounds like a recorder but powered by a rocket" XD quite right... By the way... there has anyone checked out the Woodi brand? kind of imitate the susato geometry, but i think they lack of the rubber ring, so those do not seal very well, unless the customer put some tape in the joint... i guess
Excellent explanation and description. It is more about the design than material, as you show with the head swap. Thank you very informative
PS the Killarney Nickel plated and Brass do sound noticeably different.
There are numerous variables involved in sound quality not just materials or windway design fipple ...also size of finger holes,their finish....the thickness of the bore ....the plug material of the mouth piece ....the smoothness of the internal bore etc..
.
Size of the window, distance from the bezel to the windway end, diameter of tube and thickness of the walls of material, how well sealed is the joint, etc. everything afects the quality and characteristics of the sound, really love to learn the differences from every kind of whistles
Sarah Jeffrey over at Team Recorder did a comparison between the different woods of the Moeck Rottenburgh intermediate range of alto recorders - maple, pear, box, rosewood and grenadilla - and I could tell the difference between most of them. Only the box and rosewood were difficult to separate. On the other hand, I couldn't tell the difference between a 700 Euro Yamaha flute and another costing 20,000 Euros. There are so many differences between whistles that the material is a lesser factor, although I can hear a difference between the brass and nickel plated Killarneys and whistles do generally fall into the 'metallic' or 'woody' brackets.
Thanks Nathaniel for a very interesting video. I was very much surprised by the difference in sound between the two heads of the Carbony C. The newer version does take away a lot of the breathy, airy sound. That was why I never was interested in them. I like whistles with very little airiness. I also agree with you that while the material of the body will make "some" difference" that you are spot on about the geometry of the whistle being the predominate factor in sound/tone differences. The mind can play tricks on you as you stated and can prejudice you for or against a whistle due to what it's made of or who made it. If you ever get the time it sure would be interesting to do a blind test of some of your whistles. You can tell us what whistles you will be playing but not the order. Put up a partial screen block or play off screen so that we can't know what you are playing. A week later after we have tried to guess the order played you can reveal to us what the playing order was. Thanks again for taking time to make all these useful videos for us to enjoy.
You have touched upon a somewhat thorny subject. two of the other whistle tutors/commentators have compared different whistles recently, often having been supplied with a "free" whistle with "no obligations" for comment.
Strangely all such whistles are deemed ok, quite nice etc etc.
They all are played for comparison, well the simple fact is that highly competent players such as yourself and the others indicated could make a drainpipe sound good!!
I have a Brass D Killarney which I really like and enjoy playing compared to my earlier generation/Walton's etc it is a professional quality instrument as opposed to a mass produced
playable whistle.
Where I find difficulty is in that there are copies of the Killarney (which itself was I believe a copy of the Sindt) in the form of the Wild , Setanta and now the Lir each time a "free whistle" is compared, on these sites , it seems to be the "bees knees" of whistles.
I suspect that in reality any differences are extremely minor, especially in the hands of expert musicians, but it would be nice if those minor differences were adequately explored.
The Wild, the lir are priced the same, the Setanta nearly double the price of a Killarney, I was tempted to try the latter, but especially have listened to your comments today ,where does quality really lie, are there any meaningful differences or is it simply at the end of the day, personal preference,
Mary Bergin, one of the best whistle players ever ,played a generation whistle!!
For me, what makes a whistle "better" than a Generation are things like tuning, tactile qualities (i.e. being able to push notes harder), and tone (smoother, thicker, more depth). An excellent whistle player can make cheap stock whistles sing, but some of the more expensive whistles are simply a joy to play.
I've played the Killarney, Setanta (all brass), and the Wild. There are definitely marked differences in how they play. Of the three, the Killarney is my favorite. It's a little nasally, but it's so smooth and sparkling and effortless. The Setanta is earthy, but too muffled sounding and the while the Wild is more open than the Killarney, it lacks the crispness and immediacy of tone. However, all of them really are fine whistles that should offer a noticable upgrade in tone and playability from a stock Generation, but you're deep into personal preference territory when talking about which is "best".
As for the Lír, everyone seems to love it, but the sound clips I've heard haven't been enticing. I'm sure it's another fine flavor of Sindt-style whistle, but the market is a bit too crowded for me to test them all. I'm pretty happy with my wider bore Burke anyway.
I have often thought it would be interesting and instructive for a reviewer to compare whistles by sound alone, not naming the maker or showing the whistle which is being played. Then listeners could comment on the sound quality after which it would be revealed which whistles were being played.
I'd add one advantage of synthetic whistles. I like to snack while I practice. A synthetic whistle may be rinsed in under the faucet, something I'd not do with a high end brass or aluminum like Reyburn or Bruke. These whistles are played snack free.
I'm very concerned with your t-shirt. I have seen quite a few dads sporting one. Will there be a galactic showdown to see who is the One Best Dad?
I'm the best Dad in the Galaxy. All other shirts are counterfeits.
@@NathanielDowell Well played!
@@NathanielDowell You've got to believe whay your own kid says. It's the only safe way to live! 😉
I have an ebonite and a mopane high d by McManus, and yes, they sound about the same. There is a very very subtle difference between them that changes depending on how long ago I oiled the mopane, and I suspect the resonance in the skull of the player amplifies that as I don't truly believe it to be noticeable by others. To me, the mopane just sounds a tiny bit softer, the ebonite cleaner. The mopane takes on a really nice sweetness between oilings, but muffles to softness when freshly oiled. It's kind of neat how it can change that way, I either didn't notice it when I first got it, or it took time to develop. Makers give you instructions for breaking it in that even limit how long you can play it, so they must have their reasons for the slow break in period.
There IS however a difference in playing, breath requirements, backpressure etc. I have to play the two slightly differently from each other. I can't choose between the two even though they're so close, I haven't decided which I prefer. They are both absolutely gorgeous one of a kind pieces of art, highly figured mopane which I've not seen on other whistles (thank you Roy) and a one off ebonite he had in charcoal hot pink and green. Every time I think of saying anything like maybe I'd trade the mopane for another in a different key, I think to myself, but I love the difference in HOW it plays, and I don't want to lose that.
I'm slowly turning into Gollum and these are my precious.
Incidentally, I never liked the sound of the carbony whistles, and thought it was maybe from the tapered geometry (I also don't like sweetones and thought was for the same reason but am rethinking that), but the other head on yours, no, it's not, and I'm surprised by that. I quite like the sound of the new head. I actually have a different brand carbon whistle myself, I kinda like them, it's so light compared to my other low D.
I've been in that same boat with two very similar whistles. I couldn't decide between the brass or aluminum Burke C. I eventually sold the brass, then immediately wished I'd sold the aluminum instead. The difference between them was subtle, but tangible.
@@NathanielDowell hahaha this is exactly my worry! I don't have 15 others I also love as much, just a few less expensive ones, so I don't mind holding onto the two of them. I just need to be careful not to keep adding more. Your videos are great for hearing new whistles though, thanks! I will say it was your comments on your ebonite whistle that helped me pick McManus, as I also liked some of the other whistles you play. Living in the desert I was afraid to buy a wood whistle due to the humidity issues here, but I bought it thinking I just wanted to try it for myself and then would sell it. Nope, not happening. Roy had a beautiful piece of wood he wanted to turn for me, and I'm hanging onto it, and taking the best care of it. Despite humidity typically in the 30s, it's doing well, even though it lives inside of a ziplock bag to try to keep a little humidity in! If it one day splits I'll be heartbroken, but I'm going to love it for as long as I can!
@@GreenFireflyGirl good luck. Hopefully, being a smaller diameter makes it more resistant to cracks when compared to flutes or wooden low whistles.
Is music all or any part of your livelyhood?
Unfortunately, no. I worked in steel detailing for 11 years, but I got into software development back in 2019 through a coding boot camp. Music is just a cherished hobby for me.
I also tried my hand at being an author/illustrator. My children's book is still up on Amazon if you are interested.
www.amazon.com/Skeleton-Ghost-Nathaniel-James-Dowell/dp/1979121729
@@NathanielDowell I'll have too see if Thriftbooks has it. I was hacked several times on Amazon so have not shopped there in some years.
@@NathanielDowell A hobby and therapy for me.
Wrong.....the material of the whistle is not just a container of the sound .. sound waves flow along the inner face material of the whistle and interact with it ...and effect the sound production, get it right .... yes the windway,fipple also effect the sound !
I dont think the bell comparison is s correct example . .as a bell is struck for sound a whistles body is not struck!
I say that at 3:03.
@@NathanielDowell just my thoughts ....there are so many variables with wind instrument designs ...I wish it was so simple .. !
@@NathanielDowell No your wrong ... I've looked again at your u tube video and you say ,"the material of the whistle is just a container for that sound" you emphasise the windway as being the most important part of sound production.....which is wrong !