@@nickm8874 somewhat, but his issues started when he allowed Omar to put him in a compromising position.. Joe was doomed from that point on.. his nephew Cheese was just the vehicle to get him closer to that end faster. Soon as Joe gave up the info on the card game, he put himself in a pickle; but! When he he gave up the drop for the connect, he was done for.. that slight bit of miscalculation crippled Joe, because he’s not like Avon- a soldier & a boss, he’s a methodical type.. counting on the details, and knowing how to adapt/improvise in those situations. Joe was one of my favorites.. hated to see him done like that by his own family; but, Slim Charles got Joes revenge.
Avon was the mastermind behind Prop Joe getting killed. Unlike Prop Joe, Avon saw right through Marlo and his plans and used Marlo to get at Joe knowing Marlo wasn't going to be in the game that long because Marlo wasn't making alliances. Avon reference this when he tells Marlo how Sergei came to him. Notice how Avon tells Marlo that Sergei doesn't know who Marlo is. Avon tells Marlo to give his sister $100,00 but that money isn't for his sister. It's for him because in S1, Avon lost $100,000 to Prop Joe in that East/West side basketball game. Avon figured out that Prop Joe used Stringer against him and ruined his organization when Brother Mouzone told him to give Stringer up. It's a reason why Slim was with the CO-OP and if you watch carefully at the dialogue and actions of Slim, you can tell Avon instructed Slim to spy on Prop Joe. That's how Avon knew what Marlo's plan was. Like Prop Joe told Marlo in the library, "I keep my ear to the street" and Avon was doing that behind prison walls. Once Marlo took over the CO-OP and was going to promote Slim, Slim turned it down("I aint cut out to be no CEO") but really, Slim was still working for Avon. Once Marlo was out the game, Slim killed Cheese and claims it was for Joe to justify doing it but it really was for Avon now Slim and Rick got the Greek connect. Prop Joe demise was going against Avon💯
You have a great analysis but I strongly disagree about the money being for Avon himself. It was genuinely for his sister (Because he was gone, lost most of his earners and she just lost Deangelo). Avon is not a con man, if the money was for himself he would have just stated that. He wouldn't try to appeal to Marlo's sympathy by mentioning family.
In my last rewatch I realized how Joe manipulates Stringer. His "Charlie Sollers" and "Buy it for a dollar, sell it for 2" pitches to Stringer are because he realizes that's who Stringer wants to be. He gets what he wants (3 of the 6 towers!) by appealing to Stringer's desire to be "a smart business man", just like Clay Davis does.
*Joe messed up when he didn't rectify the shipment robbery situation.* He said it himself in the outside meeting with the co-op stating, *"y'all was fine when there wasn't a problem"* but Hungryman and the others made a valid point stating, it was Joe's people doing security thus making Joe responsible for making things right but instead of making the co-op happy he rebuffs the notion and then threatens to cut them off. This made for the perfect storm and gave Marlo the opportunity to question Joe's and the connects as well as allowing him to get close to the supplier. Joe assumed he could appease Marlo and not have to worry about the Greeks working with him. Unfortunately Joe forgot that in the game there are no real loyalties just temporary beneficial alliances and it was that same lesson that eventually got him killed.
When you really analyse it, Prop Joe is one hell of a capable player. I don’t think his age is mentioned? But he survived in the game for at least a generation more than any other character. Yes he got clipped by Marlo in a shady double, more like triple cross, but Marlo and his crew were out of the game or dead shortly after. On paper, Joe is the most successful player in the series. By a “wide” margin; very wide!!!
Everyone in the game thinks they are smarter than the next. But nobody can outsmart the game. It will eventually get you whether 1 day or in 40 years unless you get out.
6:15 when joe says “rob from me and I’ll kill your whole family” he’s saying that to con stringer as if joe and Omar don’t know each other already. It’s already established at that point that they do know each other but with stringer joe wants to present things as if they don’t have a relationship, which is also why he says “don’t believe we have met” and then introduces himself to Omar. The reason Omar doesn’t think anything of the comment is because he understands what’s going on and joe is just posing in front of stringer. It’s not so much that Omar doesn’t respect him or take him seriously, but he knows that comment was just part of the act.
Great video as usual! Prop Joe is an example of why The Wire is the best show ever made. He has such a moral grey area and feels so real. His intentions aren't 100% clear, he's quite likeable but also is shown to be quite flawed as he just makes assumptions of loyalty rather than thinking about the bigger picture and earning it.
Joe was a snake who understood where the real power resided. The Greek connection was the real power. Once Marlo established that connection, Joe lost his power. His ego didn't allow him to nip things in the bud, particularly his nephew Cheese. Slim Charles warned him but he assumed the family ties would be enough to rein Cheese in. Big mistake.
@@ThinkPIONEERing Cheese was ambitious. He didn’t care who he had to cross in order to get what he wanted. His mistake was that he was too arrogant. His arrogance always got him hurt. With Brother Mouzone and then ultimately with Slim.
@@Sp-ck5es See this is where I disagree.. Joe almost got Cheese killed by setting him up to give the drop for the robbery. He constantly had to deal with decisions that made them look weak. Cheese was a snake yes but he realized if he didn't jump ship instead of Joe being killed it would have been both of them.
His angle was longevity. When he was selling Stinger on the Co-op he mentioned the old heads in the Baltimore game String never heard of because they kept a low profile. Kind of like Vinny “The Chin” Gigante, Tony Accardo, and Paul Castellano who sought to maintain a low profile, to have power and longevity in the game.
Good post, but I read a wire article a while back that was questioning if those old head drug dealers really existed, or was that story to Stringer also a part of Prop Joe’s con to get him to join the cartel.
@@SantomPh were the Baltimore gangsters real people? Or was the reason that Stringer Bell never heard of them was that Prop Joe was making up the story to manipulate him?
You know, Little Kevin was exactly the same kind of hustler as Joe. Added unnecessary steps to tasks and involved more people than necessary just to avoid putting in effort himself. As you say, guys like Joe can only get by when nobody realizes what they're doing, so Kevin explaining himself to Marlo was really stupid. It's often fine to work smarter instead of harder, but that doesn't mean you can always avoid working hard when the situation calls for it.
Yeah man. Cool series this guy does here on TH-cam with these wire players. Sharp mother f’er. To interject, I think Prop Joes only motivations are making money and playing people. And his weakest attribute is he wants to be friendly with most everyone. Like any business it’s gotta be only about the business. Mixing friendships or family with business typically ends in disaster. Especially if you are trying to make friends with psychopathic, drug dealing, murderers. As cool and chill as many of these wire players appear to be, if you turn your back they will stick it in
He might not have actually even seen the wire. He’s just a voice that’s reading something to us viewers and listeners, we don’t know anything about him.
I just realized how similar he is to clay davis except one was a politician and the other a drug dealer. And like you said, people did actually derive value and benefits from joe where as clay seemed to only benefit his superiors
Joe was stuck between both worlds. He was the best character in my opinion because nobody else on the show had the skills to do what he did. His words moved mountains without him having to do much. Sad to see his downfall was the doing of his own family.
@@jamesyoung7351 with 2 dudes like that your back is up against the wall ,marlo dont have no code when he kill omar wasnt like that he seem like more of the person to reason with cuz he lives by a code . The whole shit rigged anybody in joes position woulda been stuck ,his best bet was just to escape LEAVE
Prop Joe messed up by letting Omar gain an upper hand on him, and displaying a certain weakness; it was downhill from there. Marlo knew it too, and I’m sure Marlos mentor gave him a plan to take over Joes spot with the connect. Prop Joe played the game with a watchmakers precision- then started to slack on the minor details; the devil is always in the details.
Joe is about the deal. The idea that trade is mutually beneficial, that nations engaged in trade needn't go to war. He gets himself out of situations by proposing deals. Don't kill me, I could help you get what you want. A strong component of a deal like that is trust, which is why he presents as non-threatening, and why he doesn't posture for power alone. This is the more down to earth version of Stringer representing business.
This is the type of examples *Colleges and Universities* should adopt. Have students watch *The Wire* and use each character and events within the series and apply them in the classroom. This really makes things so much clearer for me and gives a precise understanding of business, economics, justice, politics and to include social endeavor's. *Great Work!*
We spent a few tutorials in criminal law looking at wire eps. Some incredible discussions looking at basic ideas like drawing inferences to make out intent/knowledge etc and seeing those situations that seem black and white to you but don't even warrant consideration to someone in an entirely different world. Had some classic evidence theoretical discussions about some of the bawlmore cops investigating
Joe didn’t know how to maximize his potential. He’s played some long cons but the longest con of all which is to know what you have true control of vs what you don’t and never underestimate disgruntled family members bc they’ll be the first to twist up your whole program. He handled both of these aspects poorly so in turn his time ran out.... 6 feet shy of the finish line which landed him 6 feet in the ground.
Whoever created this show, they made Avon look inconsistent. My point based on the fact, that in the beginning of the story, no one cop in whole Baltimore knew who in da hell is Avon. He was like a shade. Maybe it's only Stringer's initiative, but Avon at least listened to him. Thanks to great effort of the cops, he is going to jail. But when he comes out he completely transforms to someone who wants to run their corners, to be an OG, so he isn't in the shadows anymore. He stops listen to Stringer for no real reason. It looks like he lost a couple dozen IQ points in prison.
Bell and Prop Joes mistake was they were both long term thinkers and assumed Marlo was too. But really he knew it could be over at at any moment and wanted to grab the crown while he could, how long he held it didn’t matter because once he got it he’d keep it or die trying, and he didn’t fear death or seemingly anything other than losing his true purpose. Which, unrelated, is what happened. Ironically if he’d personally taken on Omar, which he was willing to, he would have been a legend no matter what happened. Even if he was killed he at least would have been a part of Omar’s story. But instead he gets what everyone wanted and it means nothing to him.
Marlo and Omar both sensed Prop Joe’s weaknesses and exploited them. Avon knew what Prop Joe was about, but viewed him as just part of the game. He never viewed Joe as a threat and didn’t have aspirations for the east side so he was just someone to do business periodically. However Joe was part of what pulled the Barkesdales apart when String started having more allegiance to Joe then Avon. It ultimately backfired on Joe as he overextended himself and sided with Marlo rather then Avon, not realizing Avon was actually standing between him and Marlo, who would ultimately take him out. Prop Joe had mastered the east side and was sort of autopilot, but didn’t quite grasp the warside of the Weside. The west side was more of a warrior land, and Prop Joe thought he could use his business acumen to reason with a Marlo. However, there was no reasoning with a Marlo, and for the co-op to work in a Westside context it needed both String AND Avon. Otherwise Joe was vulnerable to the more war-like nature of the Westside scene. It proved his undoing. His advice also hurt String who lost sight of the nature of the Westside and thought it was a waist of time to be beefing over some corners. He started using some of Prop Joes view of the game, thinking it was just about business, forgetting that the Westside wasn’t just about business, but about power, and there was always going to be a Marlo or a Omar to contend with so long as they were operating out of the Westside. Prop Joe was always on fairly solid ground on the eastside, but his MO needed some adjusting to deal with the ruthless, war-like nature of the Westside. He even had Slim who has trying to warn him, but he didn’t take it seriously and it proved his undoing. .
Yeah Joe went out sad why would you teach Marlo everything you know how to clean his money meet your plug and everything that’s like asking too get set up 😂
He was trying to tame an untamable lion in the hope that fresh practical knowledge and mentoring would fill Marlo’s hunger for dominance. Marlo is not a collaborative guy and those are the only people Joe should share information with
tiny correction - Omar doesn't blink at Joe saying "you ever steal from me, I'll kill your whole family" because this is by no means news to Omar. Omar himself has killed for equal or less valid reasons, and the game *is* the game; he's not hearing anything new here. You can't live that close to the edge and fear death. Omar is one of the few people on the planet who could stare Brother Mouzone straight in the eyes, so I don't think it's fair to deduce Joe is being disrespected by Omar here. really dig the content tho
That contract con happens with cable companies all the time! Example: Something as small as cable wires and unused equipments - If you own a building, make sure the cable companies will remove any unused wires or equipments(especially if it's just ordinary old coax cables and not fiber) from off and out of your building if your building has no tenants subscribed, if not, then it is your responsibility *under your own costs for removal!! 👀
@@hajileserpud9539 You're welcome. And to cover yourself, just redline into the agreement, "it is the Cable provider and/or its affiliates (subsidiaries) responsibilities for the total removal of any and all unused cable lines if no active subscribers within this bldg at no cost to owner",(or however you want to word it),but yeah, cover yourself.
Straight outta Kenya, thank you for this analysis. I liked Prop Joe - shadow man. Its possible he potentially outlast all the other young Turks and possibly Marlo had the series gone on - age-wise. Would you also consider doing one on both Lester Freamon and Clay Davis?
i disagree with the notion that stringer wanted validation and respect, what he wanted was to get out the game or progress to a higher level of the game. basically get super rich
You know who actually killed Prop Joe, other than his own naïveté towards Marlo...AVON! Avon took a play out of Prop Joe’s own book, and used it against him. Think about 🤔
@@frankmurphy7234 Cheese definitely sold Prop Joe out...but it was Avon who knew what Marlo was going to do once he got a connection to the Greeks! Remember that Avon told Marlo exactly what his angle was by visiting Sergio in Prison. Avon could’ve easily warned Slim Charles to look out for Prop Joe, but Avon did the exact opposite, he opens the proverbial “Gate” and gave Marlo the keys. Avon was never a fan of the Co-Op, Avon dope connect was out of New York! And you gotta read between the lines, you don’t think Avon felt a certain type of way about losing everything to Prop Joe? Meaning, even though He was at war with Marlo, but I can imagine he felt like shit being betrayed by Stringer Bell signing that affidavit and somehow Prop Joe talked his right hand man into going against him! Not knowing all along it was that Black Police Chief who convinced him to rat on his homeboy(Avon). This is speculation on my part tho...
Allah Akbar that is on point! I was thinking that when I first watched it! The ultimate get back while in prison! Avon wrote Joe’s Death Certificate! Plus got paid!! In 5 years he will be out and The King is still on the board with pawns that he can turn back into key players!! Gratitude
The guy Joe turned the most around with his cons and his worldview was Stringer. He sold Stringer on ideas like the co-op and sharing territory and product when he knew the Barksdales had weak product, and that eventually led to Stringer turning on Avon.
The one who controls spice controls the Universe. The one who controls Greek stuff controls Baltimore. When the Greeks decided to work with Marlo, Joe was done. And Joe probably didn't expect the Greeks to work with anyone else.
The game is the game.... If Prop Joe leave is the game still gone love him.... The high is similar to a football player with those 11 men in the huddle.... that locker room high
And if you feel “afraid” or hesitant to ask clarifying questions to an individual based on anticipations for their reactions-that hesitancy suggests and tells you right there that there is something disingenuous and manipulative about the person. People who are manipulative are often experts at displaying disbelieving intense anger when someone questions their word and motivations… it is a preventive technique that helps avoid those situations and allows them to run their con without people questioning them.
If you look for subtle changes in stories as an indicator of a con man, you will find con men everywhere. Flaws in human memory alone will guarantee that stories change slightly with each retelling. Add that to how stories change as different people tell them (Telephone game) and you will be lucky to ever hear the exact same story twice. Cheers :)
Great analysis and insight, Prop joe was a character i enjoyed watching in the show. But i figuered he was content with his place on the table, anything that had him regulate at the table on be have of others is where he would control prices to his favor which resultated in Prop Joe as you say being useful. However, His streak of violence although unseen, doesn't mean he didn't have it, but it would make more sense to see what he would gain in becoming a face for negotiations and not a face of degeneration; however, betting the house is dangerous. Interesting enough Prop joes direction towards OMAR is i'll kill your entire family which indeed OMAR call's his bluff. MARLOW however calls prop joes and has him killed at the end. interesting polar those 2 are, even their names sort of play off each other OMAR to MARLOW REMOVING THE W AND THE L AND THEIR LIKE 2 CHARACTERS IN A DEFIMATE PATH OF DESTRUCTION AN UNSTOPPABLE FORCE MEETS AN IMMOVABLE OBJECT...BUT THAT'S FOR ANOTHER DAY.
He retires and becomes manager at the local footlocker. He becomes a full time reseller because it’s more profitable. He has full access to all the new releases. Yeeyzs, off whites Nikes/Jordan’s ,dunks , basically any shoe they get in. Marlo used a blank and messed with props head and let him go. He moved to the suburbs of that area. If you watch the show the corner you see him at work when the main character kid from the show takes a day trip the suburban area to go school shopping or go Shopping in general. Joe is seen helping him with his shoe size. Joe is laying low working the 9-5 to stay occupied and low key. But the its very lucrative to because the shoe reselling market. But his home is payed off with his retirement money he has more than enough to do what ever he wants now. He just goes to work , hangs with family. He basically just a family man now taking cere of cheese’s kids to who think cheese Died and are raised by joe.
I love how Brother Mouzone was so professional he made his own bullets. When he shoots Cheese (Method Man) at the Towers, he makes a comment about how that bullet was non-lethal, but the next round in the chamber was pretty much the home made version of a cop killer - a round designed to pierce bullet proof vests. And he has the best line in the entire show. When him and Omar were plotting to kill Barksdale, Omar says there's no access from the alley or something, and they'll have to 'go in the front.' Brother Mouzone says flatly, 'that'll be a new experience for you.' It took me a second, then I realized he was goofing on Omar for being gay, and 'going in the back door' when he has sex. He said it with such a straight face that at first I didn't recognize it as a burn. When I did I was like OH DAYUM. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The Greeks liked Propjoe because he wa quiet and not loud gangster drug dealer who bring a lot of heat. As soon as Marlie got the connect he got arrested straight away of propjoe was alive he would be still doing good bussiness with the Greeks
Just discovered this chanenel , I loved your analyze on characters. Idk if you watched the sopranos but if yes could you analyze some characters of this show 🙏🏼
I'm going to start in on the Sopranos too. There are so many characters that I want to do. The thing is, I take a lot of time to do a video because I want to do it right. I know these characters mean a lot to people so I want to make sure I respect the character and also am able to make everything make sense. I'm always open to suggestions and feedback so please keep it all coming!
i disagree with the fact that Joe never asserts himself as the dominant is a weakness. I think that being on top and wearing the crown would only have made marlo, or some other dealer, come after him more quickly. I think he would have wanted to maintain the high level of influence he did, but not make himself such a target, hence why he always seemed more of a moderator than a king pin. At the co op he wanted to come off as everyones friend, and until marlo came about, it worked. This allowed him to use his friendliness to make propositions and influence situations without making an enemy of himself
Prop Joe is an example of how sometimes people can be too smart for their own good. Too use to being the smartest person in the room that he wasn't able to listen to people like Slim Charles. His manipulative ways was his down fall. Each character downfall was karmic.
No, Marlo saw how much cheese hated Hungry Man, so Chris and Snoop kidnapped him, in hopes that cheese would help them. He didn’t “tip Marlo off” per say, he basically got ushered into Marlo’s crew afterwards. The only thing he didn’t account for was a bullet to the head by Slim
@@ep3578 but Cheese had already crossed Joe by giving Marlo Butchie. Cheese always resented Joe for basically handing Omar the shipment which involved Cheese having “a gun in his face”. Dude was mad insecure
Prop joes problem is that he doesnt realize not everyone can be reasoned with.
His problem was having a soft spot for family: in this case his nephew. That’s what killed him. He acknowledged it himself. Cheese gave him up
@@nickm8874 somewhat, but his issues started when he allowed Omar to put him in a compromising position.. Joe was doomed from that point on.. his nephew Cheese was just the vehicle to get him closer to that end faster.
Soon as Joe gave up the info on the card game, he put himself in a pickle; but! When he he gave up the drop for the connect, he was done for.. that slight bit of miscalculation crippled Joe, because he’s not like Avon- a soldier & a boss, he’s a methodical type.. counting on the details, and knowing how to adapt/improvise in those situations.
Joe was one of my favorites.. hated to see him done like that by his own family; but, Slim Charles got Joes revenge.
@@MidTierVillain which info elaborate ?
Slim warned him....
No Joe problem was thinking he can outsmart any and everyone with them so called propositions
Don’t sleep on marlo, he up in some shit here~ Slim Charles
Yup he dont Foxx around wit no bodys ass 💪🏽
and joe slept on it
@@ronaldg6427 he hit the snooze button.
Joe underestimated Marlo greatly
Avon was the mastermind behind Prop Joe getting killed. Unlike Prop Joe, Avon saw right through Marlo and his plans and used Marlo to get at Joe knowing Marlo wasn't going to be in the game that long because Marlo wasn't making alliances. Avon reference this when he tells Marlo how Sergei came to him. Notice how Avon tells Marlo that Sergei doesn't know who Marlo is. Avon tells Marlo to give his sister $100,00 but that money isn't for his sister. It's for him because in S1, Avon lost $100,000 to Prop Joe in that East/West side basketball game. Avon figured out that Prop Joe used Stringer against him and ruined his organization when Brother Mouzone told him to give Stringer up. It's a reason why Slim was with the CO-OP and if you watch carefully at the dialogue and actions of Slim, you can tell Avon instructed Slim to spy on Prop Joe. That's how Avon knew what Marlo's plan was. Like Prop Joe told Marlo in the library, "I keep my ear to the street" and Avon was doing that behind prison walls. Once Marlo took over the CO-OP and was going to promote Slim, Slim turned it down("I aint cut out to be no CEO") but really, Slim was still working for Avon. Once Marlo was out the game, Slim killed Cheese and claims it was for Joe to justify doing it but it really was for Avon now Slim and Rick got the Greek connect. Prop Joe demise was going against Avon💯
You have a great analysis but I strongly disagree about the money being for Avon himself. It was genuinely for his sister (Because he was gone, lost most of his earners and she just lost Deangelo). Avon is not a con man, if the money was for himself he would have just stated that. He wouldn't try to appeal to Marlo's sympathy by mentioning family.
@@donnydarkoh6411 agreed
Your right on the money. Cause and Effect.
💯
This almost sounded convincing lol
In my last rewatch I realized how Joe manipulates Stringer. His "Charlie Sollers" and "Buy it for a dollar, sell it for 2" pitches to Stringer are because he realizes that's who Stringer wants to be. He gets what he wants (3 of the 6 towers!) by appealing to Stringer's desire to be "a smart business man", just like Clay Davis does.
Stringer was playing too many “away” games
@@MrHennessyROB Man without a country.
*Joe messed up when he didn't rectify the shipment robbery situation.*
He said it himself in the outside meeting with the co-op stating, *"y'all was fine when there wasn't a problem"* but Hungryman and the others made a valid point stating, it was Joe's people doing security thus making Joe responsible for making things right but instead of making the co-op happy he rebuffs the notion and then threatens to cut them off.
This made for the perfect storm and gave Marlo the opportunity to question Joe's and the connects as well as allowing him to get close to the supplier.
Joe assumed he could appease Marlo and not have to worry about the Greeks working with him. Unfortunately Joe forgot that in the game there are no real loyalties just temporary beneficial alliances and it was that same lesson that eventually got him killed.
When you really analyse it, Prop Joe is one hell of a capable player. I don’t think his age is mentioned? But he survived in the game for at least a generation more than any other character. Yes he got clipped by Marlo in a shady double, more like triple cross, but Marlo and his crew were out of the game or dead shortly after. On paper, Joe is the most successful player in the series. By a “wide” margin; very wide!!!
Id say marlo...cuz he had the legal keys...millions...business lawyer n out the game.....that long jeverty showing for the future......
Joe is example of platers who hustle long n still dont make it...greed took joe under..he was strait beforehand
Joe nephew sold him out got him killed
What about the old head who yelled at Stringer for killing Cheese?
@@SimonKnight1023 kill’n Cheese? Stringer? I thought Cheese got clipped by the big Rumble Tumble Nigga?
Everyone in the game thinks they are smarter than the next. But nobody can outsmart the game. It will eventually get you whether 1 day or in 40 years unless you get out.
A machanic deals with the issues of being a machanic..... It's all a part of the game.
You only do two days one day in and one day out well thats what they said
@@alphaeusallen3229 they lied....
His break down is masterful. However, your encapsulation is a reality on camera and in the streets.
If you can get out.
6:15 when joe says “rob from me and I’ll kill your whole family” he’s saying that to con stringer as if joe and Omar don’t know each other already. It’s already established at that point that they do know each other but with stringer joe wants to present things as if they don’t have a relationship, which is also why he says “don’t believe we have met” and then introduces himself to Omar. The reason Omar doesn’t think anything of the comment is because he understands what’s going on and joe is just posing in front of stringer. It’s not so much that Omar doesn’t respect him or take him seriously, but he knows that comment was just part of the act.
Great video as usual! Prop Joe is an example of why The Wire is the best show ever made. He has such a moral grey area and feels so real. His intentions aren't 100% clear, he's quite likeable but also is shown to be quite flawed as he just makes assumptions of loyalty rather than thinking about the bigger picture and earning it.
Joe was a snake who understood where the real power resided. The Greek connection was the real power. Once Marlo established that connection, Joe lost his power. His ego didn't allow him to nip things in the bud, particularly his nephew Cheese. Slim Charles warned him but he assumed the family ties would be enough to rein Cheese in. Big mistake.
Bringing in his nephew...Was a very bad decision indeed, for Joe...
I wonder where Cheese gets it from... probably his mother’s brother, you might know em’. He always makes propositions n’ shit.
@@ThinkPIONEERing Cheese was ambitious. He didn’t care who he had to cross in order to get what he wanted. His mistake was that he was too arrogant. His arrogance always got him hurt. With Brother Mouzone and then ultimately with Slim.
@@toneriggz true enough, Cheese pulled his deviousness from Joe, but not Joe’s self-restraint and intelligence. That much we know.
@@Sp-ck5es See this is where I disagree.. Joe almost got Cheese killed by setting him up to give the drop for the robbery. He constantly had to deal with decisions that made them look weak. Cheese was a snake yes but he realized if he didn't jump ship instead of Joe being killed it would have been both of them.
His angle was longevity. When he was selling Stinger on the Co-op he mentioned the old heads in the Baltimore game String never heard of because they kept a low profile. Kind of like Vinny “The Chin” Gigante, Tony Accardo, and Paul Castellano who sought to maintain a low profile, to have power and longevity in the game.
Good post, but I read a wire article a while back that was questioning if those old head drug dealers really existed, or was that story to Stringer also a part of Prop Joe’s con to get him to join the cartel.
@@Damianoutlaw
They did exist.
@@Damianoutlaw they were real people. However Castellano didn't keep a real low profile- being a boss of one of the Five Families will do that
@@SantomPh were the Baltimore gangsters real people?
Or was the reason that Stringer Bell never heard of them was that Prop Joe was making up the story to manipulate him?
@@Damianoutlaw that why marlo got him...always cunning n 2 face to survive....
You know, Little Kevin was exactly the same kind of hustler as Joe. Added unnecessary steps to tasks and involved more people than necessary just to avoid putting in effort himself. As you say, guys like Joe can only get by when nobody realizes what they're doing, so Kevin explaining himself to Marlo was really stupid. It's often fine to work smarter instead of harder, but that doesn't mean you can always avoid working hard when the situation calls for it.
this cat break these characters down as if he wrote their storylines himself!! Amazing commentary my dude! Keep up the fantastic work!
RIP to the person who played Joe
Robert F Chew
Marvel, you couldn't even be bothered to learn his name?
@@BigAce3000 Thank you.
@@bobobandy9382 literally says it at the end of the video too
Rip Omar too ;(
This dude has his either a Master’s degree in psychology and or business !
Both
Or communication
Yeah man. Cool series this guy does here on TH-cam with these wire players. Sharp mother f’er. To interject, I think Prop Joes only motivations are making money and playing people. And his weakest attribute is he wants to be friendly with most everyone. Like any business it’s gotta be only about the business. Mixing friendships or family with business typically ends in disaster. Especially if you are trying to make friends with psychopathic, drug dealing, murderers. As cool and chill as many of these wire players appear to be, if you turn your back they will stick it in
He might not have actually even seen the wire. He’s just a voice that’s reading something to us viewers and listeners, we don’t know anything about him.
The most important thing in business and leadership both is knowing people
I just realized how similar he is to clay davis except one was a politician and the other a drug dealer. And like you said, people did actually derive value and benefits from joe where as clay seemed to only benefit his superiors
Joe was stuck between both worlds. He was the best character in my opinion because nobody else on the show had the skills to do what he did. His words moved mountains without him having to do much. Sad to see his downfall was the doing of his own family.
Nah it was his own doing..... He was a snake and he snaked marlow by aetting up the robbery Omar pulled on him
@@jamesyoung7351 he was gonna kill him if he didnt
@@Catchmarley na he could've warned marlow
@@jamesyoung7351 with 2 dudes like that your back is up against the wall ,marlo dont have no code when he kill omar wasnt like that he seem like more of the person to reason with cuz he lives by a code . The whole shit rigged anybody in joes position woulda been stuck ,his best bet was just to escape LEAVE
That is typical actually...
Prop Joe had a proposition for every situation but he underestimated Marlo and it cost him his life in the end.
Prop Joe messed up by letting Omar gain an upper hand on him, and displaying a certain weakness; it was downhill from there.
Marlo knew it too, and I’m sure Marlos mentor gave him a plan to take over Joes spot with the connect.
Prop Joe played the game with a watchmakers precision- then started to slack on the minor details; the devil is always in the details.
One of the best shows out there very underrated...
It's a classic that we're still talking about today, years after it originally aired.
It's hardly underrated.
It’s not underrated. It’s made virtually every reputable Top 5 of All Time list.
@@JohnSmith-mk1rj Agree!
@@siinfloridasi Agree!
It was only underrated when it aired. The irony 😄
Joe is about the deal. The idea that trade is mutually beneficial, that nations engaged in trade needn't go to war.
He gets himself out of situations by proposing deals. Don't kill me, I could help you get what you want. A strong component of a deal like that is trust, which is why he presents as non-threatening, and why he doesn't posture for power alone.
This is the more down to earth version of Stringer representing business.
Rip prop joe the wire guy and the real life guy💯💯💯💯💯🇺🇸🦅🅰️➕✅
My favorite character of the series.
This is the type of examples *Colleges and Universities* should adopt.
Have students watch *The Wire* and use each character and events within the series and apply them in the classroom.
This really makes things so much clearer for me and gives a precise understanding of business, economics, justice, politics and to include social endeavor's.
*Great Work!*
There are some universities that have taught classes on The Wire
We spent a few tutorials in criminal law looking at wire eps. Some incredible discussions looking at basic ideas like drawing inferences to make out intent/knowledge etc and seeing those situations that seem black and white to you but don't even warrant consideration to someone in an entirely different world. Had some classic evidence theoretical discussions about some of the bawlmore cops investigating
That's so true.
Joe didn’t know how to maximize his potential. He’s played some long cons but the longest con of all which is to know what you have true control of vs what you don’t and never underestimate disgruntled family members bc they’ll be the first to twist up your whole program. He handled both of these aspects poorly so in turn his time ran out.... 6 feet shy of the finish line which landed him 6 feet in the ground.
Didn't maximize his potential? He was the only kingpin in all five seasons.
This is one of the best channels on TH-cam.
Wow that means a lot! Thank you!
Do a full analysis on Avon
The king stays the king !!!!
@@manofpsg ALWAYS
@@jstorm416 *alwaysh
Whoever created this show, they made Avon look inconsistent. My point based on the fact, that in the beginning of the story, no one cop in whole Baltimore knew who in da hell is Avon. He was like a shade. Maybe it's only Stringer's initiative, but Avon at least listened to him. Thanks to great effort of the cops, he is going to jail. But when he comes out he completely transforms to someone who wants to run their corners, to be an OG, so he isn't in the shadows anymore. He stops listen to Stringer for no real reason.
It looks like he lost a couple dozen IQ points in prison.
His problem was bringing in Marlo to begin with. His other problem is not having an exit plan.
I’m so thirsty for the Omar version
Joe should've got out earlier then he tried to . His nephew was the biggest trader
YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! Great Job
Bell and Prop Joes mistake was they were both long term thinkers and assumed Marlo was too. But really he knew it could be over at at any moment and wanted to grab the crown while he could, how long he held it didn’t matter because once he got it he’d keep it or die trying, and he didn’t fear death or seemingly anything other than losing his true purpose. Which, unrelated, is what happened. Ironically if he’d personally taken on Omar, which he was willing to, he would have been a legend no matter what happened. Even if he was killed he at least would have been a part of Omar’s story. But instead he gets what everyone wanted and it means nothing to him.
Amazing analysis and cross referencing to the world of business. Props to you
Marlo and Omar both sensed Prop Joe’s weaknesses and exploited them. Avon knew what Prop Joe was about, but viewed him as just part of the game. He never viewed Joe as a threat and didn’t have aspirations for the east side so he was just someone to do business periodically. However Joe was part of what pulled the Barkesdales apart when String started having more allegiance to Joe then Avon. It ultimately backfired on Joe as he overextended himself and sided with Marlo rather then Avon, not realizing Avon was actually standing between him and Marlo, who would ultimately take him out. Prop Joe had mastered the east side and was sort of autopilot, but didn’t quite grasp the warside of the Weside. The west side was more of a warrior land, and Prop Joe thought he could use his business acumen to reason with a Marlo. However, there was no reasoning with a Marlo, and for the co-op to work in a Westside context it needed both String AND Avon. Otherwise Joe was vulnerable to the more war-like nature of the Westside scene. It proved his undoing. His advice also hurt String who lost sight of the nature of the Westside and thought it was a waist of time to be beefing over some corners. He started using some of Prop Joes view of the game, thinking it was just about business, forgetting that the Westside wasn’t just about business, but about power, and there was always going to be a Marlo or a Omar to contend with so long as they were operating out of the Westside. Prop Joe was always on fairly solid ground on the eastside, but his MO needed some adjusting to deal with the ruthless, war-like nature of the Westside. He even had Slim who has trying to warn him, but he didn’t take it seriously and it proved his undoing.
.
He was always playing both sides and this killed him after all.
Yeah Joe went out sad why would you teach Marlo everything you know how to clean his money meet your plug and everything that’s like asking too get set up 😂
He was trying to tame an untamable lion in the hope that fresh practical knowledge and mentoring would fill Marlo’s hunger for dominance. Marlo is not a collaborative guy and those are the only people Joe should share information with
Good stuff. Love these. I'm learning a lot from these.
His demise was bound to happen. He had a turn the other cheek attitude. That's considered weak.
tiny correction - Omar doesn't blink at Joe saying "you ever steal from me, I'll kill your whole family" because this is by no means news to Omar. Omar himself has killed for equal or less valid reasons, and the game *is* the game; he's not hearing anything new here. You can't live that close to the edge and fear death. Omar is one of the few people on the planet who could stare Brother Mouzone straight in the eyes, so I don't think it's fair to deduce Joe is being disrespected by Omar here.
really dig the content tho
Plus omar knew joe was lying
That contract con happens with cable companies all the time! Example: Something as small as cable wires and unused equipments - If you own a building, make sure the cable companies will remove any unused wires or equipments(especially if it's just ordinary old coax cables and not fiber) from off and out of your building if your building has no tenants subscribed, if not, then it is your responsibility *under your own costs for removal!! 👀
Damn !!! Thanks for that info
@@hajileserpud9539 You're welcome. And to cover yourself, just redline into the agreement, "it is the Cable provider and/or its affiliates (subsidiaries) responsibilities for the total removal of any and all unused cable lines if no active subscribers within this bldg at no cost to owner",(or however you want to word it),but yeah, cover yourself.
Straight outta Kenya, thank you for this analysis. I liked Prop Joe - shadow man. Its possible he potentially outlast all the other young Turks and possibly Marlo had the series gone on - age-wise. Would you also consider doing one on both Lester Freamon and Clay Davis?
Dude u are the best. You breakdown them very well
I'd love to see you do a break down of Commissioner Burrell
Make more of these bro
Great video. Prop Joe was a great character
Joe was all about the bag 💼
i disagree with the notion that stringer wanted validation and respect, what he wanted was to get out the game or progress to a higher level of the game. basically get super rich
Can we get breakdowns on wee bey, avon, snoop, kenard. All the characters you can I love these breakdowns and insights.
The wisdom/view ratio is boggling my mind.
You know who actually killed Prop Joe, other than his own naïveté towards Marlo...AVON! Avon took a play out of Prop Joe’s own book, and used it against him. Think about 🤔
What was the play I thought I always felt it was cheese sold him out
@@frankmurphy7234 Cheese definitely sold Prop Joe out...but it was Avon who knew what Marlo was going to do once he got a connection to the Greeks! Remember that Avon told Marlo exactly what his angle was by visiting Sergio in Prison. Avon could’ve easily warned Slim Charles to look out for Prop Joe, but Avon did the exact opposite, he opens the proverbial “Gate” and gave Marlo the keys. Avon was never a fan of the Co-Op, Avon dope connect was out of New York! And you gotta read between the lines, you don’t think Avon felt a certain type of way about losing everything to Prop Joe? Meaning, even though He was at war with Marlo, but I can imagine he felt like shit being betrayed by Stringer Bell signing that affidavit and somehow Prop Joe talked his right hand man into going against him! Not knowing all along it was that Black Police Chief who convinced him to rat on his homeboy(Avon). This is speculation on my part tho...
Allah Akbar that is on point! I was thinking that when I first watched it! The ultimate get back while in prison! Avon wrote Joe’s Death Certificate! Plus got paid!! In 5 years he will be out and The King is still on the board with pawns that he can turn back into key players!! Gratitude
@@amirasiya07 never looked at it like that
Avon def wanted joe hit. He even told marlo he’d rather have somebody from west side runnin things.
I love your videos man.Please do Avon next.I have been waiting on that one
Hey legions and lions love the channel doing the wire characters hey can you do Micheal lee or tommy caretti
Definitely! I'm going to be working on all the characters. Stay posted!
@@LionsandLegions Interesting videos. May I ask, what is the basis of your analyses?
@@LionsandLegions you lot do know that Caretti is based on a real person right?
@@LionsandLegions hurry up man lol. Stumbled on the channel and the character breakdowns are dope man... def subscribed
Wow Michael Lee would be a great one. Or Chris. Love this channel. The Wire is so deep.
Well technically Joe does have a legit business....the shop were he repairs clocks😃.I know it’s not much but it is his store.
And he got old face Andre’s store for 2 bands too.
@@sickofguysnamedtodd2293 yeah he did I forgot about that😁
Keep up the good work bro
Love the is channel it’s just as good as watching these shows . Great playback #Cashflowty
Great podcast
Prop Joe would be a great youtuber
great work
Would love to see Gustavo Fring done too! Love your stuff
Great breakdown
ur videos are fantastic
Great work🙏🏽🙏🏽
I just thought about it Prop Joes character embodies Libra energy. Down to the dying for trying to play both sides or the fence.
Tru
The guy Joe turned the most around with his cons and his worldview was Stringer. He sold Stringer on ideas like the co-op and sharing territory and product when he knew the Barksdales had weak product, and that eventually led to Stringer turning on Avon.
The one who controls spice controls the Universe.
The one who controls Greek stuff controls Baltimore.
When the Greeks decided to work with Marlo, Joe was done. And Joe probably didn't expect the Greeks to work with anyone else.
The game is the game.... If Prop Joe leave is the game still gone love him.... The high is similar to a football player with those 11 men in the huddle.... that locker room high
Holy shit, this shit is some useful advice, why aren’t you more famous?
Great video
Love your channel
great analysis of a great character
Great analysis.
Prop Joe overestimated his relationship with the connect
And if you feel “afraid” or hesitant to ask clarifying questions to an individual based on anticipations for their reactions-that hesitancy suggests and tells you right there that there is something disingenuous and manipulative about the person. People who are manipulative are often experts at displaying disbelieving intense anger when someone questions their word and motivations… it is a preventive technique that helps avoid those situations and allows them to run their con without people questioning them.
If you look for subtle changes in stories as an indicator of a con man, you will find con men everywhere. Flaws in human memory alone will guarantee that stories change slightly with each retelling. Add that to how stories change as different people tell them (Telephone game) and you will be lucky to ever hear the exact same story twice. Cheers :)
I do go down the rabbit hole on these and enjoy them. I have some different opinions, but love other peoples prospective
Great analysis and insight, Prop joe was a character i enjoyed watching in the show. But i figuered he was content with his place on the table, anything that had him regulate at the table on be have of others is where he would control prices to his favor which resultated in Prop Joe as you say being useful. However, His streak of violence although unseen, doesn't mean he didn't have it, but it would make more sense to see what he would gain in becoming a face for negotiations and not a face of degeneration; however, betting the house is dangerous. Interesting enough Prop joes direction towards OMAR is i'll kill your entire family which indeed OMAR call's his bluff. MARLOW however calls prop joes and has him killed at the end. interesting polar those 2 are, even their names sort of play off each other OMAR to MARLOW REMOVING THE W AND THE L AND THEIR LIKE 2 CHARACTERS IN A DEFIMATE PATH OF DESTRUCTION AN UNSTOPPABLE FORCE MEETS AN IMMOVABLE OBJECT...BUT THAT'S FOR ANOTHER DAY.
What was that flashback of prop Joe from I don’t remember seeing it in the wire
Nice video. Keep it going
Playing the ends against the middle leaves you no safe place to ever reside.
Prop Joe just loves doing deals. Period.
Please more wire breakdowns
Interesting concept
07:20 - *Correction he means that the Greeks like their business clean and knew Joe to be a businessman rather than a hoodlum.
just came across these vids last night there awesome man, can you do some on sopranos and fargo characters?
Yes! I need to go back and re-watch those since it's been a while, but I for sure will get to the Sopranos and then start into more shows after that!
@@LionsandLegions awesome thank you! also for fargo if you could do mike milligan that world be awesome
Joe be playing on passive mode
The guy that played Prop Joe was my real life cousin.
RIP to him....
🧢
He retires and becomes manager at the local footlocker. He becomes a full time reseller because it’s more profitable. He has full access to all the new releases. Yeeyzs, off whites Nikes/Jordan’s ,dunks , basically any shoe they get in. Marlo used a blank and messed with props head and let him go. He moved to the suburbs of that area. If you watch the show the corner you see him at work when the main character kid from the show takes a day trip the suburban area to go school shopping or go
Shopping in general. Joe is seen helping him with his shoe size. Joe is laying low working the 9-5 to stay occupied and low key. But the its very lucrative to because the shoe reselling market. But his home is payed off with his retirement money he has more than enough to do what ever he wants now. He just goes to work , hangs with family. He basically just a family man now taking cere of cheese’s kids to who think cheese Died and are raised by joe.
Do Brother Mou-zone
I love how Brother Mouzone was so professional he made his own bullets.
When he shoots Cheese (Method Man) at the Towers, he makes a comment about how that bullet was non-lethal, but the next round in the chamber was pretty much the home made version of a cop killer - a round designed to pierce bullet proof vests.
And he has the best line in the entire show. When him and Omar were plotting to kill Barksdale, Omar says there's no access from the alley or something, and they'll have to 'go in the front.'
Brother Mouzone says flatly, 'that'll be a new experience for you.'
It took me a second, then I realized he was goofing on Omar for being gay, and 'going in the back door' when he has sex.
He said it with such a straight face that at first I didn't recognize it as a burn.
When I did I was like OH DAYUM.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The Greeks liked Propjoe because he wa quiet and not loud gangster drug dealer who bring a lot of heat. As soon as Marlie got the connect he got arrested straight away of propjoe was alive he would be still doing good bussiness with the Greeks
What’s the link to your site to get the ebook?
I took the site down temporarily as I'm working on editing it. If you want I can email you a version of it
Yes you can whats your email
Just discovered this chanenel , I loved your analyze on characters. Idk if you watched the sopranos but if yes could you analyze some characters of this show 🙏🏼
I'm going to start in on the Sopranos too. There are so many characters that I want to do. The thing is, I take a lot of time to do a video because I want to do it right. I know these characters mean a lot to people so I want to make sure I respect the character and also am able to make everything make sense. I'm always open to suggestions and feedback so please keep it all coming!
i disagree with the fact that Joe never asserts himself as the dominant is a weakness. I think that being on top and wearing the crown would only have made marlo, or some other dealer, come after him more quickly. I think he would have wanted to maintain the high level of influence he did, but not make himself such a target, hence why he always seemed more of a moderator than a king pin. At the co op he wanted to come off as everyones friend, and until marlo came about, it worked. This allowed him to use his friendliness to make propositions and influence situations without making an enemy of himself
Can you do a Avon Barksdale video
RIP Sidney Handjerker
Prop Joe is an example of how sometimes people can be too smart for their own good. Too use to being the smartest person in the room that he wasn't able to listen to people like Slim Charles. His manipulative ways was his down fall. Each character downfall was karmic.
Good video
You have to realize his nephew played by (meth) from wu tang clan.... tip marlo off
No, Marlo saw how much cheese hated Hungry Man, so Chris and Snoop kidnapped him, in hopes that cheese would help them. He didn’t “tip Marlo off” per say, he basically got ushered into Marlo’s crew afterwards. The only thing he didn’t account for was a bullet to the head by Slim
@@ep3578 but Cheese had already crossed Joe by giving Marlo Butchie. Cheese always resented Joe for basically handing Omar the shipment which involved Cheese having “a gun in his face”. Dude was mad insecure
D’Angelo Barksdale is the perfect person you should review next... dope reviews btw
Joe never shouldve worn them socks with the sandals.... thats why they killed him off
A mans world podcast on TH-cam breaks down the wire the best