you know, when the hotline miami devs said that they didn't want to make hotline miami 3, and they wanted someone else to make it, i think this is what they were hoping for
The way I look at it is this: Roguelites are the modern iteration of the arcade game. Designed to be absolutely brutal to knock you off the machine quickly, or force you to coin shovel. But the moment to moment gameplay is, in it's best examples, so intoxicating that you come back, and you get a little further, and you get a little further. With enough time, you are good enough to make the arcade game your bitch, and claim the fabled "1 credit clear" as your prize. To me, a good roguelite is just this. A brutal game that will make you *work* for that clear.
The ultimate arcade game in that regard is probably One Finger Death Punch 1/2 (get the sequel, it's straight up better). It's so simple only two buttons is needed to play. But it can become brutal as the game speeds up and starts throwing enemies with more advanced patterns at you. I love playing endless just to see how far I can get.
The problem i have is that i haven't found a roguelite good enough to see past the obvious reason it exists, which is not having to develop bespoke progression and artificially creating replayability. The "thrill" of replaying something until you beat it has never been my thing, i could be playing something else more fully developed with things to show me, i've learned to stay away from the genre.
2:18 as mentioned in the video, The Hong Kong Massacre was a game inspired by Hotline Miami. So John Wick 4's inspiration is still owed to the legacy of Hotline Miami.
@@CerpinTxt87 To be completely fair, that sorta what their goal was. A lot of the characters and their personalities were based off of the fanbase, who liked the game but just straight up didn't understand it whatsoever
Some time ago I ended up making a Hotline Miami-inspired game for a long gamejam and it's interesting seeing how me and OTXO's dev identified the same problems but fixed them in both similar and pretty much opposite ways. Both of us made things have more HP, highlighted what you'll pick up, gave the player an always-accessible melee attack... I went a slower route and gave enemies a Metal Gear style "display an exclamation mark over the head when spotting the player" state instead of instantly starting blasting when they spot the player (so bursting into a room and taking out enemies before they can act is viable), and enemies off-screen will not see you PERIOD so the HM2-style level design I'm guilty of works out better. I don't like when chained melee takedowns becomes a dominant strategy but I wanted individual melee kills to feel cool, so my solution was making the animation last for a full second (during which you can still take damage) but create a shockwave that instakills all nearby enemies. The one thing I'm not happy with is the total lack of interactivity in the environments, I've felt like I should have a "John Wick-ifying" pass and just make all props breakable. OHXO's "explosive barrels" everywhere upgrade sounds like the coolest idea ever, I feel like that's something I should've come up with since explosions have been scientifically proven to make anything better... Ah well, I guess that's why Lateralis is making commercial games and I'm still a hobbyist.
"explosions have been scientifically proven to make anything better" Oh man, I'm fascinated and disturbed at the prospect of seeing this applied to childbirth.
Well now I’m just curious what your work looks like and realistically every indie dev started as a hobby until they hit that one passion project tha exploded onto the scene. Of course some got discovered while others they requested a big TH-camr try out and it caught on from there. For example iron pineapple trying out indie souls likes or markiplier/corykenshin/jackseptieye trying out horror indies.
I think Hotline Miami's goal was not to be a top down shooter but more of a twitchy and unnerving timing puzzle that culminate in a release of tension.
A game I’d personally enjoy playing? No. A game I’d personally recommend to people who would? Yes. A video that I’m exceedingly happy to see? Absolutely.
So glad to have you back, Raycevick. And I can only imagine how much it has sucked for you to live 20+ (30+?) years entirely unmedicated for ADHD. Adderall and Vyvanse are truly a godsend.
ADHD really didn't impact me back when I started this channel as nothing else was happening, but as I've juggled more and more projects, it's became increasingly stressful, I'm glad I found the right Medication.
You know what’s bullshit? There’s been a shortage of 70mg Vyvanse, and I’ve never had to jump through so many hoops just to get my medication. It’s so bad I had to settle for a month supply of 50’s instead. Adderall gave me headaches after it wore off, so I refuse to go back to that. I heard that they’re switching to generic, so I guess we have to wait in limbo for the time being.
Ruiner definitely came close to scratching that itch for me. The music, visuals, and frantic pace all made me feel similar things to when I first played Hotline Miami.
Bought it about halfway into the video. It's really good, weapons feel really powerful due to sounds and the adjustable screenshake. I was not expecting the soundtrack to be as good as it is, glad I bought the deluxe version.
I think it says a lot that for every single flaw of Hotline Miami 1 and 2, I took it all in stride when they both came out. I think Hotline Miami 1 for me is a near flawless game in that I genuinely just did enjoy everything that it did, and didn't find the swapping around weapons to be a huge flaw in itself, I thought it just made you play around that bit of complexity in a sense. the inconsistent enemy AI I thought brought a lot of variety and forced you to react on the fly, I didn't mind that they didn't react realistically because hey it's a video game, and a video game that deconstructs the idea of enjoying violence in a video gamey format no-less. I basically enjoyed everything it ended up doing *as it was*. For me it did all I could've asked and I adored it for it, helps I found it randomly on the PS Store back in the day with 0 expectations. So the fact I got an incredible top down indie with a bumping soundtrack and interesting narrative piled on-top of it that was subversive for it's time, I don't know, I can't help but adore it and still praise it for what it is for this day. Hotline Miami 2 is severely flawed in so many ways but considering the *base* of it is what I adored about 1, I also tremendously enjoyed it despite also agreeing with every single issue you upheld about it, I actually might consider it even MORE fun. You do offer a very interesting and thoughtful analysis of this kind of game that I hadn't actually heard before, good video.
Surprised to see a discussion of the impact of Hotline Miami that makes absolutely no mention of Heat Signature. For my money it's easily the most interesting reinvention of the formula. The simple addition of a "slow time" button completely transforms the puzzle of the game into something much more cerebral. Combine this with the plethora of tools that allow you to move a hyperspeed, become invisible, teleport, throw up shields, take over turrets and so much more, and enemies with all kinds of fascinating abilities of their own and you've got some really rich gameplay to dig into.
Glad to see someone mentioning this game -- never seen anyone else talk about it :( It's one of my absolute favourites, and very innovative. Massively underappreciated and largely unknown little game. It's a real shame. But seeing someone else talk about it has made my day haha
It's impressive how many unique interactions things have with each other in that game. Interactions that are entirely logical, but still catch you by surprise. I'd highly recommend trying for the negative trait/vow achievements, they really highlight just how many ways there are to play that game. Going from a super-cautious Pacifist Vow/Frail run to the ramp-as-fast-as-possible madness of a Dying run is wild. It's easy to get into a rut where you think you need a certain piece of equipment to do hard missions (an armour-piercing weapon, subverter and/or a self-charging teleporter typically), but these traits will quickly disabuse you of that notion.
There's like 2 core mechanics that really set heat signature apart, for me. The first is the slow time button, yeah, and you've gone over that point. But I think you've skipped the other one that really helps enable that more cerebral playstyle. The inventory and how it behaves the fact that all items have separate cooldowns, there's no time penalty for swapping between different ones, combined with a short range teleporter for picking up anything not on your person means you can REALLY go wild with certain strats. Like carrying multiple guns to increase your effective fire rate since you can just fire a different gun while the first is on cooldown. It really sets Heat Signature apart from a lot of other topdown action games, since juggling an entire inventory isn't usually as feasible due to needing to actually spend time swapping or readying the item you need. Moreso than the timeslow, if you asked me, it just makes doing it easier on the player.
@@gamemaniac2013 Excellent point. You're absolutely right, being able to chain together item abilities is a huge part of the cool factor, and of the puzzle solving element. Your brain goes wild coming up with these crazy sequences of moves to clear a room full of bad guys, and then you feel like an absolute badass when you pull it off.
@@VoroxPete Using reversers on shields to make elite enemies accidentally shoot themselves, blowing out windows for emergency escapes or to clear out an entire room at once, taking over a different ship and completing your goal by blowing the target ship to pieces, ramming ships with the special pod that can destroy a room when moving at high speed to make your own entrance, there's just so many solutions to every problem and the only limitations are your inventory and your creativity
If you want a top down shooter that goes in a different direction that hotline miami yet is very clearly still an evolution of it with its own unique focuses, I'd heavily recommend you try out Intravenous. Enemy AI is both complex and fun to play with, and the amount of unique approaches you have to any given situation are seriously empowering and cool.
Intravenous is cool but it strays so far from the Hotline Miami formula, that it's a better recommendation for Splinter Cell fans than Hotline Miami fans. Still, good recommendation. Maybe someone here is more up for stealth games anyway.
I saw your comment on the OTXO OST video and I was hoping you'd drop a review on the game. It's nice to have someone with a similar experience as myself put my feelings when playing this game into words.
y'know, your gameplay description is what lategame Synthetik feels like to me - the right weapon, the the right items and upgrades... And it's just a bloodbath, a glass cannon powertrip, gritted teeth while holding down full(er) auto... I might have to check this game out!
Man, I wish I could like this game as much as you do, you honestly make it sound great... The problem for me is, while OTXO's action hits the level of highs I got from Hotline Miami's, what really prevents me from putting it on the same shelf is when you die. Sure, you've got a health bar so you can last through a level longer causing more havoc and painting walls with galleons of red, but as soon as it empties and that gong sound rings, you're jerked back from the adrenaline rush flowing through your veins like the braking system on a roller coaster, and have to spend twenty to thirty seconds looking through the bottle selection before getting back into the action, or a minute plus if you choose to wake up outside and fish. It doesn't sound like much, but when HM lets you go back into the action with just a button press, that delay takes me right out of it enough that I only play a couple of rounds rather than slam the continue button like it's existence personally offended me and restart the same room.
Excellent point, especially since I haven't touched either since 2015. I guess I just got less patent with age.@@Raycevick Edit: Y'know what, thinking about it, even the original HM had some slow moments that dragged everything to a crawl that I just memory holed into oblivion, like that damn hospital escape bit with no weapons... I should probably try the games again to see if I can get the same sort of rush I remember I used to have...
Yeah, okay, keeping an eye on this for if it goes on sale on Steam, looks like a blast. It's nice to see a game that knows what it wants to be, and just... is that. It doesn't try to be a variety show of mechanics and gameplay segments, instead focusing entirely on its core gameplay loop to make it as enjoyable and challenging as possible while minimizing frustration. And honestly, a top down shooter is perfect for a rougelike loop. Nothing like getting a god run going and demolishing, just to get your arse handed to you for the next 5 runs afterward because you're still in the mindset of that amazing synergy build you had going earlier.
I always recommend Redeemer. It's arguably more primitive and stilted than Hotline Miami, but something about being able to switch from shooting to melee seamlessly without dropping your weapon is INCREDIBLY satisfying. Also, buying this game immediately
I feel like trying to change the way Hotline Miami controls changes the way its played HLM isnt about precise movement or anything like that, its meant to be reckless and constant and you're meant to be adaptable. I dislike trying to change that way its played as it'd make it feel entirely different.
This just sounds like an excuse for why it's okay that the HM games have messy, floaty and difficult to control movement mechanics. I think HM2 polished the movement significantly by adding some actual momentum to the player characters but HM1s movement is just outright bad. Besides, having uncomfortable controls that you can't trust would discourage reckless gameplay as you'd be too busy wrestling with your characters movement to really play aggressively and start taking chances. If you successfully managed to develop an aggressive playstyle in HM1, it is only despite it's movement, not because of it.
@@bogginggmonster5829 Then don't fucking comment. I mean, you can have your opinion, but why bother making a comment disagreeing, providing no actual good points, and then reply to someone's comment, just to say "lol don't care".
@@Xamp1256i never felt like i was wrestling with the character, they are really responsive, the characters are obviously really fast, same as the enemies, and the sensitivity is high, but thats what makes it fun, you have to set up a rough plan for a level and then try your best to execute it while managing all the unpredictable stuff that happens, it forces quick thinking with the whole weapon changing that he mentioned. He also, for some reason complained about some glitches and presented them as features.
Fantastic!! Everything about your work is with such care and effort, i could watch a 40-60min video of you discussing housebrick design :D Glad yer feeling better too ;)
Came back after buying and finishing the game. I did it in my first run, for which I'm fairly proud of myself, but I can honestly say it's crisp. Weapons sound and fell incredible, gameplay is mint. I haven't unlocked everything yet, but I can't wait to jump back in. My first clear of the game was about 4 hours. Incredibly fun game.
Glad your doing OK Raycevick. I don't know you but I wish I had friends that I could talk to about the gaming industry as in depth as you do. No other Content Creators make me jump like a kid when I see a notification for a new video. Your videos are some of the highest quality on the platform and I hope I can continue to see more for as long as you can stand it. And no matter how long the gap between videos, I'll always be looking for the your next. Stay Healthy ♥
Sometimes I wish I could nerd about all of the things about gaming that I watch or read about. Most people though just prefer playing the games and don't really care about innovation or the state of gaming as a whole. Oh, well.
What about Heat Signature? Feels like no one knows about heat signature despite it being a really good roguelite with the same gameplay as hotline miami, but also you have a million creative gadgets and interesting puzzle like levels that lead to infinite possibilities with both how you make your character and how you approach ships with that character. Its probably the only roguelite I know that pulls off one hit instant death and doesnt feel unfair or frustrating
Didn't expect Titanfall 2 to make an appearance! It's been getting some updates from the Respawn janitor lately! Love the video! Gonna grab otxo for me and some friends - we played Hotline Miami on a PS Vita a while ago on a trip, I think they'll love it too!
what really made me love hotline miami is its story and how even when it comes to story telling they took it with creativity, you really feel like a murderer ignorant to everything to what is really happening behind all the killings
It's basic game design knowledge to not anchor the camera to the character you're controlling. Hotline Miami is indeed extremely crude and rudimentary.
@@necromax13 i wouldn't agree that there is a prescribed formula for developing a good game... the boundless, infinite canvas of your imagination is what makes game design so much fun. maybe Hotline Miami is so much fun _because_ of some of these "crude" and "rudimentary" decisions. the sum of every small decision is the game itself. who knows - maybe the dev knew something you don't. Did you know the human brain can interpret photoimagery 60,000 times faster than text? i design my games around that very simple principal but many ppl wouldn't know it unless they were told - nor would they understand its relative contribution
Imagine my joy when I realize you list all the media used in the description. Imagine my disappointment when I realize the media list doesn't cover the Q&A section and I wanted to look up the short "I know what you want!" clip used in the Q&A section. Life can be brutal sometimes.
@@Raycevick Ah, thank you very much! Seems like I was completely wrong then since I expected the clip to belong to something with Satoshi Kon vibes. Edit: And I just realized she actually says "I know what you are!" Not that it makes a difference, but I still find hilarious how it can be misheard solely due to the screaming since that would never happen if it was just spoken at a normal cadence.
not gonna lie dude, few days ago i opened your channel to see if you had uploaded a new video and was sad to know that you didn't, but i come home and find a video on my notification list did really make my night, thanks you mr lucas
i love the whole idea of the hotline miami games were you're equally as weak as the enemies you fight but that little thing alone makes the characters you play as so fucking cool because all of them can clear buildings full of russians that could in an instant kill them. As for the gameplay mechanics itself i think hotline miami 2 fixed it a bit it felt more polished than hotline miami 1.
@@Raycevick Ruiner definitely feels similar to me, not entirely the same but i'd put them in the same category, i think Ruiner has the slight edge over Otxo but they're both fantastically addictive
I've been wanting a top down shooter that evokes Hotline Miami's intensity. This seems like it not only does that, but also refines and surpasses it. Looks like this is the one.
I really wish that the small lil cutscene where you run down a hallway whenever you get to the next "floor/chamber" wasn't only exclusive to the demo ngl
Ray, making me buy another game this month wasn't expected but here we are. Thank you for this. It's all you promised and even more. Continue your awesome work!
I can see how heavily it's inspired by Hotline Miami. It's like... a reskin, but at the same time a sequel. A better sequel. You can even see that the heads look similar. They might even be the same. The characters look very similar too. Even though most of them have 2/3 maybe 4 colors. Even the moments when a character moves their hand are similar. It feels... like... home. The game perfectly preserves what made Hotline Miami so good and adds onto it, as well as fixes many seemingly innocent things that were painful in Hotline Miami.
I don’t care how long it takes Raycevick to upload. The videos are always excellent. Keep doing what your doing. Your work never fails to be thought-provoking.
Yeah him shitting on Hotline Miami is kinda weird. Because at the end of the day I've heard of Hotline Miami and havent heard of anything else in this video that tried to emulate it. Maybe its greatness is in its simplicity.
Well primitive isn’t inherently a negative trait. Donkey Kong is a classic arcade game but you’d be silly to say it isn’t primitive compared to the platformers today or even Super Mario Bros 4 years later. Primitive just means it’s less advanced, it’s simple. There’s a lot of good in simple, but simple means it can also be expanded on and made more advanced
@@SuperBKDK , you know, great things can still be imperfect. And there's nothing wrong with critiquing the aspects that can be better. "Shitting" is an awful term there. Why reduce the discussion to a boolean?
The experience of having a long run ended by a bullet three rooms, two windows and a door away is definitely a uniquely hotline experience. Wouldn't say I'd ever want it repeated, but I see your point.
That bit at ~28 minutes, the issue with roguelikes. Thank you for putting it so elegantly. I don't mind needing to learn a boss or new enemy's behaviors, but when losing resets all my progress and I have to trudge through material I've already shown I can handle, possibly multiple times, it becomes frustrating. Sure, ideally the core gameplay is fun enough that getting back to the boss is fun in and of itself, but just having something that you'd rather be doing (in this case, having another go at the boss) makes even something normally enjoyable feel restricting and " in the way."
Another great top-down shooter with a more open-oriented gameplay approach is a nifty little game called _Intravenous._ Basically, you’re a vigilante dismantling a drug ring in your home city. Go in loud, or sneak through quiet. Wipe the level or only kill your mission targets. It’s all up to you. It’s a blast if you want a little more freedom to approach the missions.
Came to the comments to say this. Intravenous is a top down Splinter Cell. The game is very tense and requires methodical playing to make it through a level. Weapon variety and the use of sound and light make it a hidden gem
Amazing video as always, Raycevick. One minor criticism though as per the beginning of the video. You were describing the aspects of what Indie was as what you remembered. You expressed Indie meant "retro" where, I understand what you mean, "Indie" originally solely meant developed by someone outside of a larger parent company; self developed, self published, and self funded. This, of course, was regardless of the style.
As someone who was in the sphere at that time, I can assure you, there was a period where any Indie game that was being talked about was some in sort of neo-retro genre and you had to be fairly low to the ground to get anything else.
@@jerrycan1756 what period lol? around the cave story era there were no indies, basically, and modding was the era's equivalent to indie game development (and we got Dota and CS from that era), then we got the boom for the indies, right at the end of the 00s, pixel art retro nonsense wasn't our bread and butter (and the big hitters weren't retro AT ALL, specially Braid looool). neo-retro genre what the hell
Yeah, this is very clearly NOT hotline miami and that is to it's determent for some of us. The game is not refined because it demands a mindless twitch response, planning is the enemy, stopping to think gets you killed and blind luck plus aggression is how you make it work. Everything you like here is, as you mentioned in passing, a slowing down. Like how doom eternal looses it's unblinking thrill once there's a dozen mental plates to spin, adding more to track and deal with in new ways only takes away from the synth induced psychosis
The only thing I've hoped to compare to my experience with hotline are the unreleased fan "sequels" in the form of 1-900-CULT and The Patriots I'm definitely going to be buying this game, thanks for making me aware of it :)
@@Raycevick That it is, I was just trying to make a joke either way, not be insulting, Sorry tone doesn't come through text and I should've made it more obvious xD
@@oiyile1971 I understand it. I've gotten some comments in the past I wasn't sure of, but I do appreciate knowing that someone did see it as a joke xD I really wasn't trying to be rude.
Good to see you back in action Ray. I don't blame HM2 for not iterating on the gameplay -- that was never to point of _anything_ Cactus has worked on -- but it's good to see people jumping off it so well. Also don't worry about speed limits when you drive in BC, the limit is always "what the guy in front is doing"
27:13 Raycevick you hit the nail on the head. I think more games should strive to be like movies where if I have a day off, I can just play that game in one sitting. Action games I think should live by that creed, everything is slowly just turning into a mushed grand adventure that I lose interest in no time because it is simply just too much.
The boomshoot resurgence has been a healthy sign for the return to more focused experiences. Realistically it was only ever going to come from indie, a game that is one thing as well as can be is just not something you see when larger budgets get involved.
The game looks cool, but a lot of the points you made are true of several other roguelikes as well. This seems like it was just the first roguelike to really capture you, whereas the likes of Gungeon, Isaac, Dead Cells were for many others.
Edit: ray is a total chad and reaponds well to critique. Though i don't believe in removal of records so im going to keep this comment up, but if you stuble apom this know i no longer have any issue with the video. for context the original title of the video was "finally... a better hotline miami" I agree with everything you said in the video but the title is just arrogant and disrespectful. oxto isn't better Hotline Miami. hotline maimi is the best hotline miami. oxto is the best oxto. don't be disrespectful of artists, you're better than that. you are both saying oxto devs are copy cats and hotline devs are hacks when you say an art piece is just another art piece but better. if you would have called the video "finally... a successor to hotline Miami" I wouldn't have made this comment.
I'm gonna try that, the title is something I went back and forth on several times, was considering even a Patreon poll, but at a certain point, I was just relieved to have a video finished at all after so many personal delays.
@@Raycevick tbh, the old title is what got me to watch this video faster. Yes, it's clickbaity (and from what I saw in the video, this game is as much of Hotilne Miami, as Katana Zero, maybe even less), but it did get me to watch it now, instead of saving to watch later (I don't think, I would watch it now with the current title).
I love the part where he’s like these abilities though. They combine in really interesting ways. And it’s like aww he’s played a roguelike for the first time.
@@RaycevickTbh the 2 words are probably interchangeable, but when I hear janky I think mechanics that are implemented but don’t function smoothly or correctly, so wonky is more like, “This works and is mostly smooth, but something still isn’t quite right.” This is probably me overthinking words, but jank just doesn’t feel like the right word for Hotline Miami. Also thank you for blessing us with a new vid it was absolutely worth the wait.
Good video, though I wouldn't call it "better". It's a solid sidegrade to Hotline, doing a lot of gameplay aspects better, but I think a lot of aspects about Hotline outside of its gameplay outdo this game. I'm a sucker for a good story, especially when it's told in a unique way; and Hotline delivers that way better, alongside how it delivers its atmosphere. Edit: Ray changed the title to "Successor" which I agree with a lot more!
@@kevinwillems8720I'm glad I'm not the only person who felt like this. The doors being wonky and the enemies seeing you when you can't see them are understandable sources of frustration, but the other stuff is a bit less cut and dry. I don't think that dying in one hit invalidates the weapon variety because it still influences when they are going to be vulnerable and it's not in keeping with the idea of a frenetic action scene for the protagonist to stop and ponder over what weapon they want to pick up. The game is about reflexes and learning the level layout, so the bare bones aspects of the game reinforce that by not letting you step away from those priorities and rewarding skillful execution within those limitations. It still feels like there's a solid middle ground between the minimalist gameplay design of the Hotline Miami and this more sophisticated, but also more forgiving and less tightly designed approach to the idea. I do think that this is probably as good a job as one could do to make a Hotline Miami rogue like, but it's pretty antithetical to the intended design of the inspiration to have the randomised levels and not have the gameplay serving a narrative function (at least in the original, your inability to comprehend the bigger picture was paralleled by the characters you played and the second game's attempts to directly tie the gameplay to the narrative, whilst not always creating the most enjoyable experiences, were a continuation of that)
@@casanovafunkenstein5090 and there's also enemies that don't go down in single hit. Some might take a hit and eventually bleed out, but optimally you're dumping 5 rounds from a smg or giving a point blank shotgun blast.
@@casanovafunkenstein5090 but the thing is those "frustrations" aren't bugs, they're features. Hotline Miami 1 is just as much a puzzle game as it is a reaction one, and hotline miami 2 is more puzzle than reflex. Also the door is an actual object in the world. You can open the door by shooting it.
Having played indie games in 90's and having played Hotline Miami, it and this video just brings Tapan Kaikki series (translates roughly to "I kill everyone" or "I kill all") to mind.
i have such a love for hotline miami, i literally get chills hearing some of the tracks from that game, and otxo is the only game that has come out to feel like a true spiritual successor, gameplay wise and soundtrack wise (to me, at least.) would love to see a vinyl for the games soundtrack. also, whatever game your friend from the interview is making, i need that lol
Hey Lucas, you have to take a look at MIDNIGHT FIGHT EXPRESS. This game is unbelievably underrated. Hotline Miami meets John Wick meets My Friend Pedro. This is the most John Wick I've felt in a game by a good margin. Please give it a try, how is this game so good.
This is framing as of the frustrating things in Hotline Miami weren't delibrate. Like the story wasn't critical, and how so many of these games trying to be Hotline Miami seem to delibrately miss the point of Hotline Miami. That goes double for Hotline Miami 2.
@Raycevick because you're treating like the whole game is just reflexes, instead of a puzzle. 2 doubled down on this. They say it themselves in the hints (tip: enemies are predictable). It's not a standard top down shooter, and treating it like one is how you'll stop enjoying it.
I tried it but man, without the instant death and restart it just doesn't hit the same or even similar. I wish good luck to the dev but I had to refund.
Nover played Hotline Miami, the game doesn't interests me. And that's ok, there are plenty of indie games i love, like Terraria, BeamNG, ETS2, Little Nighmares 2, My Summer Car, Undertale and much more. People sometimes really underestimate indie devs.
I dunno man, this all just comes across like someone explaining why "Yngwie Malmsteen is actually the best guitar player of all time". Looks like its full of systems and fixes a lot of the jank, but lacks so much of what made Hotline Miami special.
I have to thank you so much for making this video I first got it recommended to me about a week after I beat Hotline Miami 2, and suddenly found a hole in my free time, a scratch I couldn’t catch Then I watched the first 20 minutes of this video. It was so good I’ve been playing it for the past 2 months trying to get Sober and Achieving the Impossible. It’s a beautiful game that’s made me extremely happy.
Thanks for playing man, glad you enjoyed the game :)
You're a genius my man. Crazy how you did all of this solo.
I literally discovered your game through your soundtrack on TH-cam. Awesome music and great game!
Great game!
My man gonna get some sweet sales this weekend!
i am saddened there are no colors in your game. are you french?
you know, when the hotline miami devs said that they didn't want to make hotline miami 3, and they wanted someone else to make it, i think this is what they were hoping for
May I ask why
@@ghost14224 it improves on the formula
@@ghost14224no
@@ghost14224I think you already know why because of the ending
They said that? Dude that makes everything I keep saying "is basically hotline miami 3" so much more awesome. Thank you for that.
The way I look at it is this:
Roguelites are the modern iteration of the arcade game. Designed to be absolutely brutal to knock you off the machine quickly, or force you to coin shovel.
But the moment to moment gameplay is, in it's best examples, so intoxicating that you come back, and you get a little further, and you get a little further. With enough time, you are good enough to make the arcade game your bitch, and claim the fabled "1 credit clear" as your prize.
To me, a good roguelite is just this. A brutal game that will make you *work* for that clear.
I've never thought of it that way, and you're exactly right
That's a super interesting take and entirely makes sense to me
Brilliant comment making me rethink the genre.
The ultimate arcade game in that regard is probably One Finger Death Punch 1/2 (get the sequel, it's straight up better). It's so simple only two buttons is needed to play. But it can become brutal as the game speeds up and starts throwing enemies with more advanced patterns at you.
I love playing endless just to see how far I can get.
The problem i have is that i haven't found a roguelite good enough to see past the obvious reason it exists, which is not having to develop bespoke progression and artificially creating replayability.
The "thrill" of replaying something until you beat it has never been my thing, i could be playing something else more fully developed with things to show me, i've learned to stay away from the genre.
Dammit Ray I've been playing this all week because of you and now I can't stop. Thanks a lot. (No I mean it thanks, absolutely amazing game.)
huggbees? what are you doing here?
Not to diss Raycevick (love him), but I hate how this is the most popular video about OTXO, so I am begging you do a video on this
I replay the first hotline Miami at least once a year, it never gets old for me
I used to play it on my switch almost every day, and it never got old for me XD
Recently gone through HM2 again, this video couldn’t have come at a better time.
Really? I think the first one becomes far too easy once you get a good grip on the combat
@@ThePlayer920gotta get a grip
@@ThePlayer920I mean yes, but then every level becomes a beautiful symphony of violence, moving from room to room dispatching everyone
2:18 as mentioned in the video, The Hong Kong Massacre was a game inspired by Hotline Miami. So John Wick 4's inspiration is still owed to the legacy of Hotline Miami.
Proof
Hotline Miami from Wish
@@AC-hj9tvlook up John Wick Dragon Breath interview. That'll back up his claim
well that and john woo movies
@@AC-hj9tvwhy dont you get off your butt and research it yourself
Hotline Miami is one of my favorite game series of all time, it's very primitive but very engaging and satisfying when getting really good at it
It's simply simple, it's not a problem at all.
Couldn't have said it better. Such an interesting lore behind it as well, they smashed it out the park with both games.
@@loowisk1113 the second game feels like a fan mod made by someone who didn't understand why the first game was good
@@CerpinTxt87 I disagree but fair enough, that’s your opinion
@@CerpinTxt87 To be completely fair, that sorta what their goal was. A lot of the characters and their personalities were based off of the fanbase, who liked the game but just straight up didn't understand it whatsoever
Some time ago I ended up making a Hotline Miami-inspired game for a long gamejam and it's interesting seeing how me and OTXO's dev identified the same problems but fixed them in both similar and pretty much opposite ways. Both of us made things have more HP, highlighted what you'll pick up, gave the player an always-accessible melee attack... I went a slower route and gave enemies a Metal Gear style "display an exclamation mark over the head when spotting the player" state instead of instantly starting blasting when they spot the player (so bursting into a room and taking out enemies before they can act is viable), and enemies off-screen will not see you PERIOD so the HM2-style level design I'm guilty of works out better. I don't like when chained melee takedowns becomes a dominant strategy but I wanted individual melee kills to feel cool, so my solution was making the animation last for a full second (during which you can still take damage) but create a shockwave that instakills all nearby enemies.
The one thing I'm not happy with is the total lack of interactivity in the environments, I've felt like I should have a "John Wick-ifying" pass and just make all props breakable. OHXO's "explosive barrels" everywhere upgrade sounds like the coolest idea ever, I feel like that's something I should've come up with since explosions have been scientifically proven to make anything better... Ah well, I guess that's why Lateralis is making commercial games and I'm still a hobbyist.
Keep trucking at it, you're way ahead of people like me.
Otxo actually has the exclamation mark alerts too! Still blindingly fast reactions though
"explosions have been scientifically proven to make anything better"
Oh man, I'm fascinated and disturbed at the prospect of seeing this applied to childbirth.
Oh wow, it’s Yal. Didn’t expect to see someone I know here, lol. ^^
Well now I’m just curious what your work looks like and realistically every indie dev started as a hobby until they hit that one passion project tha exploded onto the scene. Of course some got discovered while others they requested a big TH-camr try out and it caught on from there. For example iron pineapple trying out indie souls likes or markiplier/corykenshin/jackseptieye trying out horror indies.
I think Hotline Miami's goal was not to be a top down shooter but more of a twitchy and unnerving timing puzzle that culminate in a release of tension.
THANK YOU!
so it's a top down shooter ok got it
A game I’d personally enjoy playing? No.
A game I’d personally recommend to people who would? Yes.
A video that I’m exceedingly happy to see? Absolutely.
This.
Same, I am not good enough to enjoy Hotline Miami,
@@Ghi102the first one isn't that hard
Hotel? Trivago!
Perfect
I love how you sound so unhinged during points of this video.
I was.
I have an assignment due in like... two hours
bro couldn't have picked a worse time to drop another classic on me😭😭😭
I could've picked... one hour.
@@Raycevick if that's the case, I expect your next video to come out an hour before my final is due
before i even watch this video, i can already tell the music in this video is going to be godlike
I don't know how I lived for so long never knowing KMFDM made songs for Spiderman 2...
pizza time @@Raycevick
So glad to have you back, Raycevick.
And I can only imagine how much it has sucked for you to live 20+ (30+?) years entirely unmedicated for ADHD. Adderall and Vyvanse are truly a godsend.
ADHD really didn't impact me back when I started this channel as nothing else was happening, but as I've juggled more and more projects, it's became increasingly stressful, I'm glad I found the right Medication.
I have been diagnosed for 7 years now and still have never gotten medication, lol. God why are so many medical systems sooo fucked.
You know what’s bullshit? There’s been a shortage of 70mg Vyvanse, and I’ve never had to jump through so many hoops just to get my medication. It’s so bad I had to settle for a month supply of 50’s instead. Adderall gave me headaches after it wore off, so I refuse to go back to that. I heard that they’re switching to generic, so I guess we have to wait in limbo for the time being.
@@michimatsch5862 I know that pain all too well.
@@michimatsch5862I've heard it's hard to diagnose it in adulthood, may I ask? did you decide to seek it out or did relatives notice it?
Ruiner definitely came close to scratching that itch for me. The music, visuals, and frantic pace all made me feel similar things to when I first played Hotline Miami.
"I was inspired by Hotline Miami and, in two weeks, I had already made a BETTER GAME." - Unnamed Nobody
A fellow fanfiction writer.
Hey, they said more advanced mechanics, not a "better game"
Bought it about halfway into the video.
It's really good, weapons feel really powerful due to sounds and the adjustable screenshake.
I was not expecting the soundtrack to be as good as it is, glad I bought the deluxe version.
Raycevick, regardless of how much longer you're on TH-cam, I think you'll permanently be my favorite channel 🤙🏾
I think it says a lot that for every single flaw of Hotline Miami 1 and 2, I took it all in stride when they both came out.
I think Hotline Miami 1 for me is a near flawless game in that I genuinely just did enjoy everything that it did, and didn't find the swapping around weapons to be a huge flaw in itself, I thought it just made you play around that bit of complexity in a sense.
the inconsistent enemy AI I thought brought a lot of variety and forced you to react on the fly, I didn't mind that they didn't react realistically because hey it's a video game, and a video game that deconstructs the idea of enjoying violence in a video gamey format no-less.
I basically enjoyed everything it ended up doing *as it was*. For me it did all I could've asked and I adored it for it, helps I found it randomly on the PS Store back in the day with 0 expectations.
So the fact I got an incredible top down indie with a bumping soundtrack and interesting narrative piled on-top of it that was subversive for it's time, I don't know, I can't help but adore it and still praise it for what it is for this day.
Hotline Miami 2 is severely flawed in so many ways but considering the *base* of it is what I adored about 1, I also tremendously enjoyed it despite also agreeing with every single issue you upheld about it, I actually might consider it even MORE fun.
You do offer a very interesting and thoughtful analysis of this kind of game that I hadn't actually heard before, good video.
Hotline miami 2 offered one major improvement. it felt crunchier.
Hotline got me into the making of games with its simplicity yet complex intriguing story. Love this game. Grew up with this game.
From the few seconds you played the OST, I instantly purchased it as my new Gym playlist. It's EXACTLY the kind of thing I love.
I did the same thing! lol
Surprised to see a discussion of the impact of Hotline Miami that makes absolutely no mention of Heat Signature.
For my money it's easily the most interesting reinvention of the formula. The simple addition of a "slow time" button completely transforms the puzzle of the game into something much more cerebral. Combine this with the plethora of tools that allow you to move a hyperspeed, become invisible, teleport, throw up shields, take over turrets and so much more, and enemies with all kinds of fascinating abilities of their own and you've got some really rich gameplay to dig into.
Glad to see someone mentioning this game -- never seen anyone else talk about it :( It's one of my absolute favourites, and very innovative. Massively underappreciated and largely unknown little game. It's a real shame. But seeing someone else talk about it has made my day haha
It's impressive how many unique interactions things have with each other in that game. Interactions that are entirely logical, but still catch you by surprise.
I'd highly recommend trying for the negative trait/vow achievements, they really highlight just how many ways there are to play that game. Going from a super-cautious Pacifist Vow/Frail run to the ramp-as-fast-as-possible madness of a Dying run is wild. It's easy to get into a rut where you think you need a certain piece of equipment to do hard missions (an armour-piercing weapon, subverter and/or a self-charging teleporter typically), but these traits will quickly disabuse you of that notion.
There's like 2 core mechanics that really set heat signature apart, for me.
The first is the slow time button, yeah, and you've gone over that point.
But I think you've skipped the other one that really helps enable that more cerebral playstyle. The inventory and how it behaves
the fact that all items have separate cooldowns, there's no time penalty for swapping between different ones, combined with a short range teleporter for picking up anything not on your person means you can REALLY go wild with certain strats.
Like carrying multiple guns to increase your effective fire rate since you can just fire a different gun while the first is on cooldown.
It really sets Heat Signature apart from a lot of other topdown action games, since juggling an entire inventory isn't usually as feasible due to needing to actually spend time swapping or readying the item you need. Moreso than the timeslow, if you asked me, it just makes doing it easier on the player.
@@gamemaniac2013 Excellent point. You're absolutely right, being able to chain together item abilities is a huge part of the cool factor, and of the puzzle solving element. Your brain goes wild coming up with these crazy sequences of moves to clear a room full of bad guys, and then you feel like an absolute badass when you pull it off.
@@VoroxPete Using reversers on shields to make elite enemies accidentally shoot themselves, blowing out windows for emergency escapes or to clear out an entire room at once, taking over a different ship and completing your goal by blowing the target ship to pieces, ramming ships with the special pod that can destroy a room when moving at high speed to make your own entrance, there's just so many solutions to every problem and the only limitations are your inventory and your creativity
Gonna have to give this one a try. I had a blast playing through Hotline Miami 1 and 2
Ray is about to launch this game into the stratosphere and from what I've seen I'm all for it
If you want a top down shooter that goes in a different direction that hotline miami yet is very clearly still an evolution of it with its own unique focuses, I'd heavily recommend you try out Intravenous. Enemy AI is both complex and fun to play with, and the amount of unique approaches you have to any given situation are seriously empowering and cool.
Intravenous is cool but it strays so far from the Hotline Miami formula, that it's a better recommendation for Splinter Cell fans than Hotline Miami fans.
Still, good recommendation. Maybe someone here is more up for stealth games anyway.
I saw your comment on the OTXO OST video and I was hoping you'd drop a review on the game.
It's nice to have someone with a similar experience as myself put my feelings when playing this game into words.
Congrats, you just made this Dev a lot of money. Also welcome back!
y'know, your gameplay description is what lategame Synthetik feels like to me - the right weapon, the the right items and upgrades...
And it's just a bloodbath, a glass cannon powertrip, gritted teeth while holding down full(er) auto...
I might have to check this game out!
Now I wonder how Ray would feel about ULTRAKILL.
Man, I wish I could like this game as much as you do, you honestly make it sound great...
The problem for me is, while OTXO's action hits the level of highs I got from Hotline Miami's, what really prevents me from putting it on the same shelf is when you die. Sure, you've got a health bar so you can last through a level longer causing more havoc and painting walls with galleons of red, but as soon as it empties and that gong sound rings, you're jerked back from the adrenaline rush flowing through your veins like the braking system on a roller coaster, and have to spend twenty to thirty seconds looking through the bottle selection before getting back into the action, or a minute plus if you choose to wake up outside and fish. It doesn't sound like much, but when HM lets you go back into the action with just a button press, that delay takes me right out of it enough that I only play a couple of rounds rather than slam the continue button like it's existence personally offended me and restart the same room.
If that's the case, I'm surprised you lasted through Hotline Miami 2's extended story sequences.
Excellent point, especially since I haven't touched either since 2015. I guess I just got less patent with age.@@Raycevick
Edit: Y'know what, thinking about it, even the original HM had some slow moments that dragged everything to a crawl that I just memory holed into oblivion, like that damn hospital escape bit with no weapons... I should probably try the games again to see if I can get the same sort of rush I remember I used to have...
Yeah, okay, keeping an eye on this for if it goes on sale on Steam, looks like a blast.
It's nice to see a game that knows what it wants to be, and just... is that. It doesn't try to be a variety show of mechanics and gameplay segments, instead focusing entirely on its core gameplay loop to make it as enjoyable and challenging as possible while minimizing frustration.
And honestly, a top down shooter is perfect for a rougelike loop. Nothing like getting a god run going and demolishing, just to get your arse handed to you for the next 5 runs afterward because you're still in the mindset of that amazing synergy build you had going earlier.
I always recommend Redeemer. It's arguably more primitive and stilted than Hotline Miami, but something about being able to switch from shooting to melee seamlessly without dropping your weapon is INCREDIBLY satisfying.
Also, buying this game immediately
I feel like trying to change the way Hotline Miami controls changes the way its played HLM isnt about precise movement or anything like that, its meant to be reckless and constant and you're meant to be adaptable. I dislike trying to change that way its played as it'd make it feel entirely different.
This just sounds like an excuse for why it's okay that the HM games have messy, floaty and difficult to control movement mechanics.
I think HM2 polished the movement significantly by adding some actual momentum to the player characters but HM1s movement is just outright bad.
Besides, having uncomfortable controls that you can't trust would discourage reckless gameplay as you'd be too busy wrestling with your characters movement to really play aggressively and start taking chances.
If you successfully managed to develop an aggressive playstyle in HM1, it is only despite it's movement, not because of it.
@@Xamp1256 I reject your opinion and will not elaborate
@@bogginggmonster5829 Then don't fucking comment. I mean, you can have your opinion, but why bother making a comment disagreeing, providing no actual good points, and then reply to someone's comment, just to say "lol don't care".
@@Xamp1256i never felt like i was wrestling with the character, they are really responsive, the characters are obviously really fast, same as the enemies, and the sensitivity is high, but thats what makes it fun, you have to set up a rough plan for a level and then try your best to execute it while managing all the unpredictable stuff that happens, it forces quick thinking with the whole weapon changing that he mentioned.
He also, for some reason complained about some glitches and presented them as features.
Fantastic!! Everything about your work is with such care and effort, i could watch a 40-60min video of you discussing housebrick design :D Glad yer feeling better too ;)
Came back after buying and finishing the game. I did it in my first run, for which I'm fairly proud of myself, but I can honestly say it's crisp. Weapons sound and fell incredible, gameplay is mint. I haven't unlocked everything yet, but I can't wait to jump back in. My first clear of the game was about 4 hours. Incredibly fun game.
Glad your doing OK Raycevick.
I don't know you but I wish I had friends that I could talk to about the gaming industry as in depth as you do.
No other Content Creators make me jump like a kid when I see a notification for a new video.
Your videos are some of the highest quality on the platform and I hope I can continue to see more for as long as you can stand it.
And no matter how long the gap between videos, I'll always be looking for the your next.
Stay Healthy ♥
Sometimes I wish I could nerd about all of the things about gaming that I watch or read about. Most people though just prefer playing the games and don't really care about innovation or the state of gaming as a whole. Oh, well.
What about Heat Signature? Feels like no one knows about heat signature despite it being a really good roguelite with the same gameplay as hotline miami, but also you have a million creative gadgets and interesting puzzle like levels that lead to infinite possibilities with both how you make your character and how you approach ships with that character. Its probably the only roguelite I know that pulls off one hit instant death and doesnt feel unfair or frustrating
Didn't expect Titanfall 2 to make an appearance! It's been getting some updates from the Respawn janitor lately!
Love the video! Gonna grab otxo for me and some friends - we played Hotline Miami on a PS Vita a while ago on a trip, I think they'll love it too!
Now play Colt Canyon
what really made me love hotline miami is its story and how even when it comes to story telling they took it with creativity, you really feel like a murderer ignorant to everything to what is really happening behind all the killings
I love how Otxo's camera is centered between the cursor and your player. it makes such a difference compared to whatever hotline miami does.
It reminds me of a lot of old flash games
It's basic game design knowledge to not anchor the camera to the character you're controlling. Hotline Miami is indeed extremely crude and rudimentary.
@@necromax13 i wouldn't agree that there is a prescribed formula for developing a good game... the boundless, infinite canvas of your imagination is what makes game design so much fun. maybe Hotline Miami is so much fun _because_ of some of these "crude" and "rudimentary" decisions. the sum of every small decision is the game itself. who knows - maybe the dev knew something you don't. Did you know the human brain can interpret photoimagery 60,000 times faster than text? i design my games around that very simple principal but many ppl wouldn't know it unless they were told - nor would they understand its relative contribution
@@Retrofire-47 that's literally your opinion going against what actual, decorated game developers say.
@@necromax13 Explain why everyone loves Hotline Miami then -- if its design was so egregious?
Imagine my joy when I realize you list all the media used in the description.
Imagine my disappointment when I realize the media list doesn't cover the Q&A section and I wanted to look up the short "I know what you want!" clip used in the Q&A section.
Life can be brutal sometimes.
Show's Chainsaw Man, character is Kobeni. It's such an iconic scene, you can find it by itself on YT.
@@Raycevick Ah, thank you very much! Seems like I was completely wrong then since I expected the clip to belong to something with Satoshi Kon vibes.
Edit: And I just realized she actually says "I know what you are!" Not that it makes a difference, but I still find hilarious how it can be misheard solely due to the screaming since that would never happen if it was just spoken at a normal cadence.
You won't be able to change my mind that Hotline Miami 2 is one of my all time favourite games
not gonna lie dude, few days ago i opened your channel to see if you had uploaded a new video and was sad to know that you didn't, but i come home and find a video on my notification list did really make my night, thanks you mr lucas
You're welcome :)
i love the whole idea of the hotline miami games were you're equally as weak as the enemies you fight but that little thing alone makes the characters you play as so fucking cool because all of them can clear buildings full of russians that could in an instant kill them. As for the gameplay mechanics itself i think hotline miami 2 fixed it a bit it felt more polished than hotline miami 1.
Alternative title: Finally... a Worse Ruiner
In an older longer cut of this video, I had Ruiner on-screen when talking about games that have a different feel in gameplay.
@@Raycevick Ruiner definitely feels similar to me, not entirely the same but i'd put them in the same category, i think Ruiner has the slight edge over Otxo but they're both fantastically addictive
I've been wanting a top down shooter that evokes Hotline Miami's intensity. This seems like it not only does that, but also refines and surpasses it. Looks like this is the one.
I really wish that the small lil cutscene where you run down a hallway whenever you get to the next "floor/chamber" wasn't only exclusive to the demo ngl
Devs may add it by emailing them :D
Ray, making me buy another game this month wasn't expected but here we are. Thank you for this. It's all you promised and even more. Continue your awesome work!
I can see how heavily it's inspired by Hotline Miami. It's like... a reskin, but at the same time a sequel. A better sequel.
You can even see that the heads look similar. They might even be the same. The characters look very similar too. Even though most of them have 2/3 maybe 4 colors. Even the moments when a character moves their hand are similar. It feels... like... home.
The game perfectly preserves what made Hotline Miami so good and adds onto it, as well as fixes many seemingly innocent things that were painful in Hotline Miami.
I don’t care how long it takes Raycevick to upload. The videos are always excellent. Keep doing what your doing. Your work never fails to be thought-provoking.
the madness combat game we didn’t know we wanted but needed
I wouldn’t call Hotline Miami primitive. In fact I’d say it’s almost designed to be timeless.
"Preserving early traits" is one of the meanings of "primitive"
Yeah him shitting on Hotline Miami is kinda weird. Because at the end of the day I've heard of Hotline Miami and havent heard of anything else in this video that tried to emulate it. Maybe its greatness is in its simplicity.
Well primitive isn’t inherently a negative trait. Donkey Kong is a classic arcade game but you’d be silly to say it isn’t primitive compared to the platformers today or even Super Mario Bros 4 years later. Primitive just means it’s less advanced, it’s simple. There’s a lot of good in simple, but simple means it can also be expanded on and made more advanced
@@SuperBKDK , you know, great things can still be imperfect. And there's nothing wrong with critiquing the aspects that can be better. "Shitting" is an awful term there. Why reduce the discussion to a boolean?
The experience of having a long run ended by a bullet three rooms, two windows and a door away is definitely a uniquely hotline experience. Wouldn't say I'd ever want it repeated, but I see your point.
Gotta appreciate Ray not buying eggs to get the video done.
Bro I'm so mad at you for the last part of the Q&A I'm about to up my patreon level out of spite
I'll have to thank Sparky.
That bit at ~28 minutes, the issue with roguelikes. Thank you for putting it so elegantly. I don't mind needing to learn a boss or new enemy's behaviors, but when losing resets all my progress and I have to trudge through material I've already shown I can handle, possibly multiple times, it becomes frustrating. Sure, ideally the core gameplay is fun enough that getting back to the boss is fun in and of itself, but just having something that you'd rather be doing (in this case, having another go at the boss) makes even something normally enjoyable feel restricting and " in the way."
Welcome back Raycevick, you've been missed. Time to add this game to the wishlist.
Another great top-down shooter with a more open-oriented gameplay approach is a nifty little game called _Intravenous._ Basically, you’re a vigilante dismantling a drug ring in your home city. Go in loud, or sneak through quiet. Wipe the level or only kill your mission targets. It’s all up to you. It’s a blast if you want a little more freedom to approach the missions.
Came to the comments to say this. Intravenous is a top down Splinter Cell. The game is very tense and requires methodical playing to make it through a level.
Weapon variety and the use of sound and light make it a hidden gem
this is a extremely well written and edited video! definitely going to check this game out the next chance i get
A new Raycevick video and a new Whitelight video in my sub feed. Today is a good day for sure. Glad to see ya back Rayce vick
Amazing video as always, Raycevick. One minor criticism though as per the beginning of the video. You were describing the aspects of what Indie was as what you remembered. You expressed Indie meant "retro" where, I understand what you mean, "Indie" originally solely meant developed by someone outside of a larger parent company; self developed, self published, and self funded. This, of course, was regardless of the style.
As someone who was in the sphere at that time, I can assure you, there was a period where any Indie game that was being talked about was some in sort of neo-retro genre and you had to be fairly low to the ground to get anything else.
@@jerrycan1756 what period lol? around the cave story era there were no indies, basically, and modding was the era's equivalent to indie game development (and we got Dota and CS from that era), then we got the boom for the indies, right at the end of the 00s, pixel art retro nonsense wasn't our bread and butter (and the big hitters weren't retro AT ALL, specially Braid looool).
neo-retro genre what the hell
Welcome back hope you have a good day/night. And of course thanks for the great video plus THE CONCEPT OF LOVE!
Yeah, this is very clearly NOT hotline miami and that is to it's determent for some of us. The game is not refined because it demands a mindless twitch response, planning is the enemy, stopping to think gets you killed and blind luck plus aggression is how you make it work. Everything you like here is, as you mentioned in passing, a slowing down. Like how doom eternal looses it's unblinking thrill once there's a dozen mental plates to spin, adding more to track and deal with in new ways only takes away from the synth induced psychosis
this is scratching that hotline Miami itch just by watching the video alone
I love hotline miamis gameplay , really want to try this one out, thanks raycevick 👍
Watching this video makes me want to learn to create games because of how many ideas came flowing through my head inspired by you.
The only thing I've hoped to compare to my experience with hotline are the unreleased fan "sequels" in the form of 1-900-CULT and The Patriots
I'm definitely going to be buying this game, thanks for making me aware of it :)
6:48 - One thing that I always appreciate on your videos is music choices, and this is no exception - what a fantastic needle drop montage lol.
Finally... A New Raycevick Video.
if anyone is looking for a great iteration on the hotline miami formula i recommend heat signature, its made by the same guy that made gunpoint
I saw that Title change you cheeky bastard.
It's listed in the description?
@@Raycevick That it is, I was just trying to make a joke either way, not be insulting, Sorry tone doesn't come through text and I should've made it more obvious xD
@@StilesReviewsDon't sweat it. Your humour was there in the original comment. I hate when TH-camrs respond to comments that way
@@oiyile1971 I understand it. I've gotten some comments in the past I wasn't sure of, but I do appreciate knowing that someone did see it as a joke xD I really wasn't trying to be rude.
Man, between the Black lagoon love and knowing Perfect Dark, you're my favorite content creator, please make a vid on that game
Good to see you back in action Ray. I don't blame HM2 for not iterating on the gameplay -- that was never to point of _anything_ Cactus has worked on -- but it's good to see people jumping off it so well. Also don't worry about speed limits when you drive in BC, the limit is always "what the guy in front is doing"
When my friend recommended OTXO to me he called it "Landline Moscow". 10/10
27:13 Raycevick you hit the nail on the head. I think more games should strive to be like movies where if I have a day off, I can just play that game in one sitting. Action games I think should live by that creed, everything is slowly just turning into a mushed grand adventure that I lose interest in no time because it is simply just too much.
SuperBunnyhop's first video on Rage vs DOOM always stuck with me; don't make a story driven game if your story isn't very good.
The boomshoot resurgence has been a healthy sign for the return to more focused experiences. Realistically it was only ever going to come from indie, a game that is one thing as well as can be is just not something you see when larger budgets get involved.
That's why I've beaten Titanfall 2 so many times: it's a delightful afternoon of a game. The perfect length to bring you back for another go.
32:27 I wasn't expecting to find a reference to Downwell in any piece of media ever
The game looks cool, but a lot of the points you made are true of several other roguelikes as well. This seems like it was just the first roguelike to really capture you, whereas the likes of Gungeon, Isaac, Dead Cells were for many others.
Thanks, I’ve been rewatching older videos waiting for a new one. Watched it all, then had to watch discount Raycevick (Whitelight)
Edit: ray is a total chad and reaponds well to critique. Though i don't believe in removal of records so im going to keep this comment up, but if you stuble apom this know i no longer have any issue with the video. for context the original title of the video was "finally... a better hotline miami"
I agree with everything you said in the video but the title is just arrogant and disrespectful. oxto isn't better Hotline Miami. hotline maimi is the best hotline miami. oxto is the best oxto. don't be disrespectful of artists, you're better than that. you are both saying oxto devs are copy cats and hotline devs are hacks when you say an art piece is just another art piece but better. if you would have called the video "finally... a successor to hotline Miami" I wouldn't have made this comment.
I'm gonna try that, the title is something I went back and forth on several times, was considering even a Patreon poll, but at a certain point, I was just relieved to have a video finished at all after so many personal delays.
@@Raycevick wow. Way to earn my respect good sir
@@Raycevick tbh, the old title is what got me to watch this video faster. Yes, it's clickbaity (and from what I saw in the video, this game is as much of Hotilne Miami, as Katana Zero, maybe even less), but it did get me to watch it now, instead of saving to watch later (I don't think, I would watch it now with the current title).
Though it's not a top down shooter, I always found that Katana Zero scratched the same itch that Hotline Miami did
I love the part where he’s like these abilities though. They combine in really interesting ways. And it’s like aww he’s played a roguelike for the first time.
From a better hotline miami to a successor to hotline miami
much better title
I wouldn’t describe Hotline Miami as janky, it’s more… wonky? If that makes sense.
What's the difference?
@@RaycevickTbh the 2 words are probably interchangeable, but when I hear janky I think mechanics that are implemented but don’t function smoothly or correctly, so wonky is more like, “This works and is mostly smooth, but something still isn’t quite right.” This is probably me overthinking words, but jank just doesn’t feel like the right word for Hotline Miami. Also thank you for blessing us with a new vid it was absolutely worth the wait.
Happy New Year Ray! Glad youre doing better!
Good video, though I wouldn't call it "better". It's a solid sidegrade to Hotline, doing a lot of gameplay aspects better, but I think a lot of aspects about Hotline outside of its gameplay outdo this game. I'm a sucker for a good story, especially when it's told in a unique way; and Hotline delivers that way better, alongside how it delivers its atmosphere.
Edit: Ray changed the title to "Successor" which I agree with a lot more!
Yeah Ray seems to look at all the delibrate choices Hotline Miami makes as mistakes to be fixed
ESPECIALLY when he downplays the importance of the story.
@@kevinwillems8720I'm glad I'm not the only person who felt like this.
The doors being wonky and the enemies seeing you when you can't see them are understandable sources of frustration, but the other stuff is a bit less cut and dry.
I don't think that dying in one hit invalidates the weapon variety because it still influences when they are going to be vulnerable and it's not in keeping with the idea of a frenetic action scene for the protagonist to stop and ponder over what weapon they want to pick up.
The game is about reflexes and learning the level layout, so the bare bones aspects of the game reinforce that by not letting you step away from those priorities and rewarding skillful execution within those limitations.
It still feels like there's a solid middle ground between the minimalist gameplay design of the Hotline Miami and this more sophisticated, but also more forgiving and less tightly designed approach to the idea.
I do think that this is probably as good a job as one could do to make a Hotline Miami rogue like, but it's pretty antithetical to the intended design of the inspiration to have the randomised levels and not have the gameplay serving a narrative function (at least in the original, your inability to comprehend the bigger picture was paralleled by the characters you played and the second game's attempts to directly tie the gameplay to the narrative, whilst not always creating the most enjoyable experiences, were a continuation of that)
@@casanovafunkenstein5090 and there's also enemies that don't go down in single hit. Some might take a hit and eventually bleed out, but optimally you're dumping 5 rounds from a smg or giving a point blank shotgun blast.
@@casanovafunkenstein5090 but the thing is those "frustrations" aren't bugs, they're features. Hotline Miami 1 is just as much a puzzle game as it is a reaction one, and hotline miami 2 is more puzzle than reflex.
Also the door is an actual object in the world. You can open the door by shooting it.
Having played indie games in 90's and having played Hotline Miami, it and this video just brings Tapan Kaikki series (translates roughly to "I kill everyone" or "I kill all") to mind.
I didn't watch the video yet, but that is a bold claim
Raycevick and whitelight pretty much same time omg yass
i have such a love for hotline miami, i literally get chills hearing some of the tracks from that game, and otxo is the only game that has come out to feel like a true spiritual successor, gameplay wise and soundtrack wise (to me, at least.) would love to see a vinyl for the games soundtrack. also, whatever game your friend from the interview is making, i need that lol
Hey Lucas, you have to take a look at MIDNIGHT FIGHT EXPRESS.
This game is unbelievably underrated.
Hotline Miami meets John Wick meets My Friend Pedro. This is the most John Wick I've felt in a game by a good margin.
Please give it a try, how is this game so good.
Yep, another game with a great OST
What a great video. Thanks for shining a light on an *actual* indie gem
Great video, Hotline Miami is my yearly comfort game, now I'll have to check this out.
This is framing as of the frustrating things in Hotline Miami weren't delibrate. Like the story wasn't critical, and how so many of these games trying to be Hotline Miami seem to delibrately miss the point of Hotline Miami.
That goes double for Hotline Miami 2.
The AI doesn't register enemies dropping next to them because
*checks notes*
story?
@Raycevick because you're treating like the whole game is just reflexes, instead of a puzzle. 2 doubled down on this. They say it themselves in the hints (tip: enemies are predictable). It's not a standard top down shooter, and treating it like one is how you'll stop enjoying it.
...but I enjoy Hotline Miami?
@Raycevick I didn't say you didn't.
Are you not saying I'm treating it as a standard Top Down Shooter and thus will stop enjoying it?
Raycevick extensively using the Control style chapter introductions, glad to see this in more games and videos.
I tried it but man, without the instant death and restart it just doesn't hit the same or even similar. I wish good luck to the dev but I had to refund.
I heavily recommend heat signature - it ticks almost all of the boxes, and it's simultaneously a little more and a little less brutal
Nover played Hotline Miami, the game doesn't interests me. And that's ok, there are plenty of indie games i love, like Terraria, BeamNG, ETS2, Little Nighmares 2, My Summer Car, Undertale and much more. People sometimes really underestimate indie devs.
Ok, OTXO seems really fun, i'll probably buy it
Seeing this like 2 hrs after finishing Hotline Miami for the first time, nice
I dunno man, this all just comes across like someone explaining why "Yngwie Malmsteen is actually the best guitar player of all time". Looks like its full of systems and fixes a lot of the jank, but lacks so much of what made Hotline Miami special.
I have to thank you so much for making this video
I first got it recommended to me about a week after I beat Hotline Miami 2, and suddenly found a hole in my free time, a scratch I couldn’t catch
Then I watched the first 20 minutes of this video. It was so good I’ve been playing it for the past 2 months trying to get Sober and Achieving the Impossible. It’s a beautiful game that’s made me extremely happy.