Everything you commented on seems spot on. Seems like most people that scanned their own Phoenix 200 later decided to overexpose to the 100-160 ISO range. Even if this isn't a "success", it's promising to have a big name like Harman start to produce some new color negative film again.
For lack of a better word, it just looks really 'Film-ey'. I'm actually kind of happy that it's crunchy and lo-fi. It makes it different than a lot of the other film stocks out there. I'm excited to get my hands on a roll and do some moody portraits.
Yeah I actually quite liked these, moreso than Jason’s, which were super underexposed. The latitude kinda bites, but I was really kinda digging the way it looked with the pictures of the swans(?).
I’m trying to learn about film and in the process see a lot of film reviews that make audacious claims about a film stock without having evidence to back it up. The way you showed the changes the film takes on by shooting the same scene at different exposure levels was pretty unique and seems like the kind of thing every film review should include, but simply does not. I really appreciated that. Awesome work as always.
Yeah i definitely like your results a lot AND thank you for doing an exposure test!!! No one else has done one yet, and I would still say that I like your artistic rendition of this film a LOT. As I said in my earlier comment, I like the results from Caleb/Badflashes the most, and then I prefer yours over Jason/Grainydays but all three of you made some excellent photos from this film. I'm glad that I got some of it for myself 😁
Technical considerations to one side, as an Englishman who started with Ilford FP4 nearly sixty years ago I was gobsmacked and delighted to learn that Ilford were doing a colour film (again!).. I really applaud them and hope they can make the film, or its future derivatives, a success. Thanks for a very good review.
Love your in depth analysis of it, especially with the exposure tests at the end. NLP tweaking looked very similar to what I did, obviously with some personal taste differences. Excited to see what's next for Harman.
Apparently it's 'scientific' iso is around 125 - but they decided to go with 200 for marketing as their test shooters suggested it would ring in better for some reason. I think it's really done them a disservice as it's such a low latitude(experimental) film that it really needed that accurate exposure information. Great video as always - my jaw low key dropped when you showed the 1+ overexposure test...
Interesting. For me 200 has always been a chemist speed, or bargain basket if you like. If they rated its box at 160 it's at least closer to its true iso but also rings bells with shooters who herald Portra. I think their speed on the box will change.
@@jamiegray3245 Oh for sure! This is of course just an experimental trial run - it doesn't have any film backing or any of the fancy stuff! But I will say that I really like the way greens and Reds pop - I hope they'll continue down that line with the film.
Your videos are always informative and the ability to rest the limits of film is so interesting. Not to mention your thoughts and processes are so helpful.
Wow, you easily have the best results from this film that I’ve seen, I was lucky to have a chance to shoot a roll the day it came out because a camera store in my area stocked it
I love these exposure test/review videos. This was super informative! I have a few rolls on order and after seeing this, I'll definitely rate the film at 64 or 100. It also seems like this film would benefit heavily from 120 and 4x5 formats to control the grain. But like you said, it's kind of in its beta stage and will be improved on over time.
I love that Harman have begun this project. I've picked some up even though I'm predominantly a B&W shooter. Gotta support the initiative in my opinion. Thanks for the tips, Kyle.
Thanks Kyle, the photos I had seen from various sources were shit so I avoided this film like the plague. Looks like it was just user error and bad scanning as usual. I’m looking forward to shooting a roll today.
I really love the under exposed color look sometimes and this film does it well. yeah its not for everyone and it isnt for all instances. but the shot you opened with is an ideal color look for me. really hoping they fine tune it a but and make it in 120. cause then ill be all over it.
This is by far the best review of this new film stock. Your images turned out more than amazing, despite the shortcomings of Phoenix 200. Thanks, Kyle.
good effort w/colorchecker. changing dev time +20sec helps bump shadows [ the R4 line- neutral line] holding that solid provides info bout varing R1: naturals or ... [each row holds info of a type of color. change provides deltas .. ]
Thank you so much for this review, especially the objective exposure tests. I feel I understand this film stock, where despite watch many other different reviews, I did not. Your work is some of the best out there.
As long as this is truly "the beginning of the journey" instead of the Lomo "embrace the weird forever", I applaud them. I don't know if their marketing really did that for me tho as it felt VERY Lomo-ish. I was there when IMPOSSIBLE started their journey and for as much crap as they got, the early days messaging was about a transparent journey, and I'd love it if Harman would be move to more of that messaging. AMAZING video, and probably the best, most thoughtful balance of real-world and exposure tests I've seen with this film.
It's worth mentioning that Mister was scanning with the best possible camera far beyond what regular amator will, and still the film was hard to work and far from optimal. I hope it will evolve into better 1.
I was able to attend their meetup event at nyc couple days ago, its pretty interesting as I learned the barcode that they put on the sprockets of the film, as seen with many other film stocks. Are intended for labs to create a preset for how the film should look, compatible to certain scanners. And because it doesn't have an orange mask, it also behaves differently with traditional neg color films during conversion , which people have to fine tune down the line. But really dependent on how you work with it. Camera scanning myself, its doesn't seem so grainy as many others shown. But harman did say they are trying to improve and innovate on this. Would be a huge plus if they decide to work with NLP to better tune the conversion process, especially since camera scanning is a new thing; compared to old film stocks(exp. portra) on old scanners (exp. Noritsu, SP3000, etc.)
Great video. Very helpful. I agree with your assessment concerning the launch. Good move Harman! We are excited to take this journey with you. Clearly this film is capable of making compelling images with some willingness to embrace its quirks. Buy some of this film , have fun making some unique images, enjoy it while it is here because it will quickly evolve.
The best evaluation of the film I have seen so far. The shots of you and the color chart were most helpful. I am very glad there is a new film. In the same breath it looks like expired film. Thanks for the very useful information.
Very nice, detailed review. Thanks Kyle! I think once the film is refined to where Harman feel they have a good quality, reliable stock then they will follow it up with larger formats. I get the sense that they’re taking a long term view on the product.
It's just great they're doing this. My only concern is that Ilford/Harman are just so much better at catering to the customer and keeping affordable products in stock everywhere that if they come out with a full line of c41 (or even e6) films, they might finally put kodak 6ft down lol. That is provided they fix all the issues with this film which are very many as you point out.
@@phillipbanes5484 True, it is very hard to do, but if anyone's going to be able to make seriously pro color film other than Kodak (or Fuji), it's gotta be Ilford/Harman. I have a lot of respect for their QC and abilities, definitely not gonna be easy but hey who knows?
I’m with you. If they produced this in 120 and rebranded it as an ISO80 film I’d buy it, but I don’t think I’d get much use out of it as a 35mm option. Great video btw. Loads of info and inspiration without any waffle. Thanks, just what I look for in a TH-cam channel. 👍
Was interesting seeing the guys who made it saying it was technically a 125 ISO film. This vid shows that off well. Those 100 tests look so much closer to what it feels it can be. Would be interested in trying some myself, soon.
Best review I have seen on this film stock. I now have a much better Idea on what this film can look like. I do like the car shots you have taken with it, they really have a ton of character. I can't wait to get a few rolls to shoot on my Xpan.
That's actually really interesting with the color chart, I've never seen color negative film shift that violently after one stop of over exposure, its almost like certain layers are too sensitive and others aren't. Not something I'll be investing in anytime soon, but am super glad they are giving it a crack as we need more competition/options in the space. Based on what you're saying this is likely better treated like you're shooting 100 ISO slide film, as it seems to have very limited latitude, high contrast and things fall apart when its not spot on exposure wise. Nice shots though, I did like those last colorful car ones. TBH it renders like expired film trying to be saved in the scanning process.
Picked up a roll last week, was advised against using in a point and shoot and now I see why Will probably shoot at 100 testing a wide lens next weekend
awesome video, amazing film its so unique!, very little room for exposure, but it has so much character, I love it
9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1
Seems like from others testing, rating it as a 100T E6 film is the best result I’ve seen. So low grain slide film. And that’s how I’ll shoot it for sure :)
So they have developed it themselves. Theor first colour film? Great to see you shooting the contax. The rts is beautiful. Love my nx, though. Very light with modern metering and af. With my failing eyes that's very important!!
what a clever test ! compare to all the video i saw, in which this film looks quite bad and way too grainy, the key is to overexpose it almost 2 stops and avoid too contrasty scene, thx a lot for this Kyle, i bought 2 of them and was quite perplexed by the other results i saw here and there, so again thx for this, Peace.
It seems that they are struggling with the speed differences of the dye layers and that is forcing them to set the ASA higher than would be ideal for grain. I'd love to try it (and support Ilford on this) but I am only shooting 120.
Thank for the comprehensive review. I find this an interesting 100 ISO film. Depending on the light it somwhat reminds me - in the distance -, the strong and contrasty Kodachrome colors. Obviously without the deep dark blacks and low, low grain. For a "first beta" i think it's very interesting. One thing we might have to consider also is Harmann/Ilford's culture - black and white films only. I believe this plays a role on the grain we see here, which looks very B&W grain to me. To deal with dyes is different. They'll get there, and what they have now looks good under the right conditions. If there's a color negative film I used a lot and miss so much it's Ektar 25. Saturation I loved, no grain, top resolution. Well, it's gone. A shame. But I still have one or two in the freezer, :) My best!
everybody is buying this film, not necessarily for the end results but for what buying the entire stock will develop in harman labs for next batch. i'm a b&w shooter and still bought 2 boxes of this, just to support the company for future project (hopefully cheaper also, to correspond with the perceived quality)
I read a while ago that a foreigner will capture somewhere better than a native. As a Brit living overseas you seem to capture the UK so well sometimes.
I know you don't do as many portraits, but I'd love to see you work with NLP on getting good skin tones. Probably not with this film stock, but would just love to see what you do!
I would shoot this film at ISO 100 based on your results. I’d be curious to see how much latitude is in the scene. When all is said and done, it’s a great thing for our community to see a new color film, and many will argue nowadays photographers who shoot film from the small manufacturers aren’t looking for accurate colors and superfine grain but rather the opposite as those imperfections give Phoenix 200 its distinct look and character.
Shooting a roll today stock 200 on my AE1 program in full program mode. 2 or 3 hours of sunshine promise early today in the UK so over the park I will og 🙂
Hey Kyle: I have to say I don't think I have seen this film here in Canada (western). But I will keep my open and see if it shows up here. I like you, will be more interested if they where to release the film in 120. I have to say I really like how it handles the reds, but I am odd, I like really punchy reds!
1:08 I ride my motorcycle past this exact car dozens of times a year when I'm out and about in the Peak District. It's a 1963 Mercury Monterey with the Breezeway roof, if anyone is interested. The last thing I expected to see in this video.
Very useful review. I like the look of this film, at least how you processed it. Seems most people are really lifting the shadows way too much and getting a very grainy, very washed out result.
Are you shooting those tests wide open? Lenses are seldom accurate the first couple of stops as vignetting has a huge impact on exposure. On a film with so little DR you may have to shoot it at 5.6-8 to hit the sweet spot. That to me makes this film even more interesting, and may be better suited for "instant" type cameras.
All things considered, I can't justify paying $13.99 per roll for 36 exposures of this film when 36 exp. of Kodak Gold 200 is $9.99 per roll. Full stop. I know this isn't a popular point of view on social media, but I think most folks will agree once the hype machine slows down re: Phoenix 200. Harman has a lot of work to do. Thanks for your sober analysis. Cheers.
I definitely understand. As I said to someone else, if I were to buy this film right now, it'd be to support the development of it. Otherwise, there's many films I'd rather choose to shoot with.
The reason it looks better at around 100 iso is that the film is iso 123 or something like that based on what the guys who created it said, I have a brick of it but my first roll is gonna be shot at 125 like fp4. Might give a better look but shift colors as much and retain some of its 200 iso characteristics
In Jason’s video the R&D department mentioned the film is actually about 120 ISO. This is likely why in the exposure tests one stop over looked better!
Yeah, I saw that as well. IMO, they should have released this as a ISO125. Underexposure with color neg causes issues quickly, especially with a film with limited latitude like this one.
@@KyleMcDougall I agree they should have released it at ISO125. I’m sure it was released at 200 for marketing reasons. It seems consumers want high speed film more than anything.
Your pics worked well with this film but very "atmospheric" (AKA grainy and soft). The color quality quite nice but not something I'd run to get my hands on now. Kinda of a grainy/soft Fuji NPS look, which I used to shoot before digital.
This film honestly reminds me of a polaroid a bit. I find the dark shadows and the oddly saturated colors remind me of polaroids. It seems like an interesting film, but definitely needs some tweaking down the road. Thanks for the video and the exposure tests!!
How does it compare to Adox Color Mission? Don't remember if you have made a video about it but it's also a "new" film (manufactured some time ago in cooperation with a company that doesn't exist anymore) which is sold to finance research to improve and produce it again. It also has a low exposure latitude like Phoenix but I believe it has finer grain, haven't gotten my hands on Phoenix yet. Great test/video as always.
GREAT video!!! Thank you for making this! Really useful, objective-fact based info, exactly what is needed to give us the tools to make creative decisions using this film. Could you do more like this? I’d love to see the same breakdown on how pushing/pulling other films affects them, esp with the colour chart and etc. I havent seen anyone else get into the colour science part of it as well as this. Would be really interesting to have a look at b&w in the same way - how does kentmere 400 do when pushed/pulled etc as well? Was already subscribed but would doublesubscribe if I could - please keep it coming!
![[TH] RNT vs SPG - VCT Ascension Pacific - Day 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RUTkf8Detj8/mqdefault.jpg)
Everything you commented on seems spot on. Seems like most people that scanned their own Phoenix 200 later decided to overexpose to the 100-160 ISO range. Even if this isn't a "success", it's promising to have a big name like Harman start to produce some new color negative film again.
Yep, I agree. I'm very confident that this is only the beginning, and we'll see much better versions of this film in the future.
For lack of a better word, it just looks really 'Film-ey'. I'm actually kind of happy that it's crunchy and lo-fi. It makes it different than a lot of the other film stocks out there. I'm excited to get my hands on a roll and do some moody portraits.
Agreed! It reminds me a bit of the early IG filters. There was one I used all of the time… can’t remember its name.
You and Jason have the best samples of this film so far. Very nice work.
I think Badflashes does too
Yes! Caleb too!
Yeah I actually quite liked these, moreso than Jason’s, which were super underexposed. The latitude kinda bites, but I was really kinda digging the way it looked with the pictures of the swans(?).
There was also a guy from Dublin who took some cross processed photos. makes for a good slide film for scanning it seems.
I’m trying to learn about film and in the process see a lot of film reviews that make audacious claims about a film stock without having evidence to back it up. The way you showed the changes the film takes on by shooting the same scene at different exposure levels was pretty unique and seems like the kind of thing every film review should include, but simply does not. I really appreciated that. Awesome work as always.
Glad you enjoyed. Cheers!
Yeah i definitely like your results a lot AND thank you for doing an exposure test!!! No one else has done one yet, and I would still say that I like your artistic rendition of this film a LOT. As I said in my earlier comment, I like the results from Caleb/Badflashes the most, and then I prefer yours over Jason/Grainydays but all three of you made some excellent photos from this film. I'm glad that I got some of it for myself 😁
Glad you enjoyed. Cheers.
Technical considerations to one side, as an Englishman who started with Ilford FP4 nearly sixty years ago I was gobsmacked and delighted to learn that Ilford were doing a colour film (again!).. I really applaud them and hope they can make the film, or its future derivatives, a success.
Thanks for a very good review.
Love your in depth analysis of it, especially with the exposure tests at the end. NLP tweaking looked very similar to what I did, obviously with some personal taste differences.
Excited to see what's next for Harman.
Apparently it's 'scientific' iso is around 125 - but they decided to go with 200 for marketing as their test shooters suggested it would ring in better for some reason.
I think it's really done them a disservice as it's such a low latitude(experimental) film that it really needed that accurate exposure information.
Great video as always - my jaw low key dropped when you showed the 1+ overexposure test...
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed this one.
Interesting. For me 200 has always been a chemist speed, or bargain basket if you like. If they rated its box at 160 it's at least closer to its true iso but also rings bells with shooters who herald Portra. I think their speed on the box will change.
@@jamiegray3245 Oh for sure! This is of course just an experimental trial run - it doesn't have any film backing or any of the fancy stuff!
But I will say that I really like the way greens and Reds pop - I hope they'll continue down that line with the film.
Perhaps the most instructional video on how to handle and what to expect from the phoenix film. Thanks for putting in the work!
Your videos are always informative and the ability to rest the limits of film is so interesting. Not to mention your thoughts and processes are so helpful.
I love the test of the under/overexposure... And I appreciate you putting the time and effort into this video! Thanks!
Great video Kyle! Appreciate the time you put into the testing. It's exciting to see where this project from Harman will go 🙂
🙌
Wow, you easily have the best results from this film that I’ve seen, I was lucky to have a chance to shoot a roll the day it came out because a camera store in my area stocked it
Thank you.
I agree with your assessment on releasing early - this is history in the making and many people can be a part of it.
This is the best analysis that I've seen on this film. I bought a single roll to support the project but I'm not in any rush to use it.
I love these exposure test/review videos. This was super informative! I have a few rolls on order and after seeing this, I'll definitely rate the film at 64 or 100. It also seems like this film would benefit heavily from 120 and 4x5 formats to control the grain. But like you said, it's kind of in its beta stage and will be improved on over time.
Yep, I think we'll see this improve quite a bit.
Those test images remind me of Saul Leiters work and William Egglestons. That will do me. Perhaps I should bulk buy before it changes. Grwat video. 👍
I love that Harman have begun this project. I've picked some up even though I'm predominantly a B&W shooter. Gotta support the initiative in my opinion.
Thanks for the tips, Kyle.
You're welcome. Cheers.
to see this in 120 would be incredible
Thanks Kyle, the photos I had seen from various sources were shit so I avoided this film like the plague. Looks like it was just user error and bad scanning as usual.
I’m looking forward to shooting a roll today.
Kyle, you legend. This is the most thorough video on this stock I’ve seen. Really appreciate the energy you put into this.
Cheers, Dylan. Glad you enjoyed this one!
I really love the under exposed color look sometimes and this film does it well. yeah its not for everyone and it isnt for all instances. but the shot you opened with is an ideal color look for me. really hoping they fine tune it a but and make it in 120. cause then ill be all over it.
By the way, you easily have presented the best results with this film I have seen so far. Great stuff!
This is by far the best review of this new film stock. Your images turned out more than amazing, despite the shortcomings of Phoenix 200. Thanks, Kyle.
Thank you. 🙏
Another great film review. Saved me buying a roll. Now b&w, 1/4 of my freezer is film and a good portion is ilford.
good effort w/colorchecker. changing dev time +20sec helps bump shadows [ the R4 line- neutral line] holding that solid provides info bout varing R1: naturals or ... [each row holds info of a type of color. change provides deltas .. ]
Thank you so much for this review, especially the objective exposure tests. I feel I understand this film stock, where despite watch many other different reviews, I did not. Your work is some of the best out there.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed this one.
Sooo much character to this new film stock. Really like it 🎞️👌
Thanks for doing the stop comparisons
Best video of Phoenix 200 that has come out. Definitely gonna shoot it at ISO 100 and lean towards overexposure
As long as this is truly "the beginning of the journey" instead of the Lomo "embrace the weird forever", I applaud them. I don't know if their marketing really did that for me tho as it felt VERY Lomo-ish. I was there when IMPOSSIBLE started their journey and for as much crap as they got, the early days messaging was about a transparent journey, and I'd love it if Harman would be move to more of that messaging.
AMAZING video, and probably the best, most thoughtful balance of real-world and exposure tests I've seen with this film.
Cheers, Patrick. I think we're in good hands with a company like Harman, and I'd imagine their goal is to keep improving this as quick as possible.
Your images were great, I like the look you achieved. Grain, contrast and reduced detail can be really creative.
It's worth mentioning that Mister was scanning with the best possible camera far beyond what regular amator will, and still the film was hard to work and far from optimal. I hope it will evolve into better 1.
I was able to attend their meetup event at nyc couple days ago, its pretty interesting as I learned the barcode that they put on the sprockets of the film, as seen with many other film stocks. Are intended for labs to create a preset for how the film should look, compatible to certain scanners. And because it doesn't have an orange mask, it also behaves differently with traditional neg color films during conversion , which people have to fine tune down the line.
But really dependent on how you work with it. Camera scanning myself, its doesn't seem so grainy as many others shown. But harman did say they are trying to improve and innovate on this. Would be a huge plus if they decide to work with NLP to better tune the conversion process, especially since camera scanning is a new thing; compared to old film stocks(exp. portra) on old scanners (exp. Noritsu, SP3000, etc.)
I went to the one in San Clemente, when the Harman dudes were there and got to talk about the different things with the stock
Thanks again for the time you put in!
Really like all the car shots, great compositions... and punchy. You got the best out of the film there...
Thank you.
thanks for taking the time to give us a variety of examples for this new film stock!
You're welcome.
Another fantastic video. It really is interesting just how much it cleans up with a single stop of "overexposure" when shooting at 100.
Really surprising to see how quick it changes.
Thanks for the great video! I appreciate the review and tips.
Been looking forward to this! thanks Kyle!
Yea you went off with this one Kyle. Great video!
Cheers, Mike!
Great video. Very helpful. I agree with your assessment concerning the launch. Good move Harman! We are excited to take this journey with you. Clearly this film is capable of making compelling images with some willingness to embrace its quirks. Buy some of this film , have fun making some unique images, enjoy it while it is here because it will quickly evolve.
The best evaluation of the film I have seen so far. The shots of you and the color chart were most helpful.
I am very glad there is a new film. In the same breath it looks like expired film.
Thanks for the very useful information.
Cheers, Greg.
Thanks for making this! Excited to shoot a roll in the next few days
Very nice, detailed review. Thanks Kyle! I think once the film is refined to where Harman feel they have a good quality, reliable stock then they will follow it up with larger formats. I get the sense that they’re taking a long term view on the product.
Yep, I agree with you.
It's just great they're doing this. My only concern is that Ilford/Harman are just so much better at catering to the customer and keeping affordable products in stock everywhere that if they come out with a full line of c41 (or even e6) films, they might finally put kodak 6ft down lol. That is provided they fix all the issues with this film which are very many as you point out.
@@phillipbanes5484 True, it is very hard to do, but if anyone's going to be able to make seriously pro color film other than Kodak (or Fuji), it's gotta be Ilford/Harman. I have a lot of respect for their QC and abilities, definitely not gonna be easy but hey who knows?
I’m with you. If they produced this in 120 and rebranded it as an ISO80 film I’d buy it, but I don’t think I’d get much use out of it as a 35mm option.
Great video btw. Loads of info and inspiration without any waffle. Thanks, just what I look for in a TH-cam channel. 👍
🤞for a 120 version soon.
Was interesting seeing the guys who made it saying it was technically a 125 ISO film. This vid shows that off well. Those 100 tests look so much closer to what it feels it can be. Would be interested in trying some myself, soon.
Best review I have seen on this film stock. I now have a much better Idea on what this film can look like. I do like the car shots you have taken with it, they really have a ton of character. I can't wait to get a few rolls to shoot on my Xpan.
That's actually really interesting with the color chart, I've never seen color negative film shift that violently after one stop of over exposure, its almost like certain layers are too sensitive and others aren't. Not something I'll be investing in anytime soon, but am super glad they are giving it a crack as we need more competition/options in the space.
Based on what you're saying this is likely better treated like you're shooting 100 ISO slide film, as it seems to have very limited latitude, high contrast and things fall apart when its not spot on exposure wise.
Nice shots though, I did like those last colorful car ones. TBH it renders like expired film trying to be saved in the scanning process.
Yeah I was very surprised to see it shift so quickly and drastically.
Picked up a roll last week, was advised against using in a point and shoot and now I see why
Will probably shoot at 100 testing a wide lens next weekend
awesome video, amazing film its so unique!, very little room for exposure, but it has so much character, I love it
Seems like from others testing, rating it as a 100T E6 film is the best result I’ve seen.
So low grain slide film.
And that’s how I’ll shoot it for sure :)
Really nice information !!
That’s some knowledge.
Definitely going to try it at a 64 ISO!
Thanks for the tips.
Super helpful. Thanks. Good insight into the varied results from the other channels.
Glad it was helpful!
So they have developed it themselves. Theor first colour film? Great to see you shooting the contax. The rts is beautiful. Love my nx, though. Very light with modern metering and af. With my failing eyes that's very important!!
Yep, this is a brand-new film. Not something repackaged.
Thanks for another very informative video in your usual Kyle style ;-)
what a clever test ! compare to all the video i saw, in which this film looks quite bad and way too grainy, the key is to overexpose it almost 2 stops and avoid too contrasty scene, thx a lot for this Kyle, i bought 2 of them and was quite perplexed by the other results i saw here and there, so again thx for this, Peace.
It seems that they are struggling with the speed differences of the dye layers and that is forcing them to set the ASA higher than would be ideal for grain.
I'd love to try it (and support Ilford on this) but I am only shooting 120.
Absolutely love the vibe of this film. I don't do film photography, but that grain is HNNNNNG 🥵
Thank for the comprehensive review. I find this an interesting 100 ISO film. Depending on the light it somwhat reminds me - in the distance -, the strong and contrasty Kodachrome colors. Obviously without the deep dark blacks and low, low grain. For a "first beta" i think it's very interesting.
One thing we might have to consider also is Harmann/Ilford's culture - black and white films only. I believe this plays a role on the grain we see here, which looks very B&W grain to me. To deal with dyes is different. They'll get there, and what they have now looks good under the right conditions.
If there's a color negative film I used a lot and miss so much it's Ektar 25. Saturation I loved, no grain, top resolution. Well, it's gone. A shame. But I still have one or two in the freezer, :)
My best!
I believe they'll get there as well. I'd love to see a refined 120 version, with a bit more latitude and less agressive grain.
@@KyleMcDougall I believe when they fine tine it 120 will come
wow, really challenging film stock. great that they're trying, though-if I see it anywhere I'll pick up a roll.
Yeah, regardless of it's shortcomings, it's still very exciting.
great video, thank you very much.
everybody is buying this film, not necessarily for the end results but for what buying the entire stock will develop in harman labs for next batch. i'm a b&w shooter and still bought 2 boxes of this, just to support the company for future project (hopefully cheaper also, to correspond with the perceived quality)
I agree.
need this kind of comparison for cinestill 400d!
THANKS KYLE
You're welcome.
I read a while ago that a foreigner will capture somewhere better than a native. As a Brit living overseas you seem to capture the UK so well sometimes.
Thank you.
I know you don't do as many portraits, but I'd love to see you work with NLP on getting good skin tones. Probably not with this film stock, but would just love to see what you do!
Love your results!!! ❤
Cheers!
Great info man, definitely exciting to see where this goes. Loved the shots you got even if the film didn't do them justice 👍
Amazing
I would shoot this film at ISO 100 based on your results. I’d be curious to see how much latitude is in the scene.
When all is said and done, it’s a great thing for our community to see a new color film, and many will argue nowadays photographers who shoot film from the small manufacturers aren’t looking for accurate colors and superfine grain but rather the opposite as those imperfections give Phoenix 200 its distinct look and character.
"the shadows seem to go pretty quick" lol how fast are they going brother 😂
Youre doing gods work
Shooting a roll today stock 200 on my AE1 program in full program mode. 2 or 3 hours of sunshine promise early today in the UK so over the park I will og 🙂
Hey Kyle: I have to say I don't think I have seen this film here in Canada (western). But I will keep my open and see if it shows up here. I like you, will be more interested if they where to release the film in 120. I have to say I really like how it handles the reds, but I am odd, I like really punchy reds!
you are the best kyle!!
Stop trying to make it perfect - film is an artistic medium now, and this film is poppin’ as it is!
Exactly. If you want a perfect image get a medium format digital camera
1:08 I ride my motorcycle past this exact car dozens of times a year when I'm out and about in the Peak District. It's a 1963 Mercury Monterey with the Breezeway roof, if anyone is interested. The last thing I expected to see in this video.
It's not ready for prime time but I know that some film photographers love the grainy look.
Very useful review. I like the look of this film, at least how you processed it. Seems most people are really lifting the shadows way too much and getting a very grainy, very washed out result.
Really didn't love my results with this film, but I'll probably give it another go, with more thought behind composition, after watching this video.
Are you shooting those tests wide open? Lenses are seldom accurate the first couple of stops as vignetting has a huge impact on exposure. On a film with so little DR you may have to shoot it at 5.6-8 to hit the sweet spot. That to me makes this film even more interesting, and may be better suited for "instant" type cameras.
Not all the tests were wide open. And exposure adjustments were made with shutter speed.
All things considered, I can't justify paying $13.99 per roll for 36 exposures of this film when 36 exp. of Kodak Gold 200 is $9.99 per roll. Full stop. I know this isn't a popular point of view on social media, but I think most folks will agree once the hype machine slows down re: Phoenix 200. Harman has a lot of work to do. Thanks for your sober analysis. Cheers.
I definitely understand. As I said to someone else, if I were to buy this film right now, it'd be to support the development of it. Otherwise, there's many films I'd rather choose to shoot with.
The reason it looks better at around 100 iso is that the film is iso 123 or something like that based on what the guys who created it said, I have a brick of it but my first roll is gonna be shot at 125 like fp4. Might give a better look but shift colors as much and retain some of its 200 iso characteristics
love the photo of the mushy peas sign coming up as you talk about sharpness😂
Haha, didn't even notice that!
Useful, thanks.
Ilford's "fuji c200"+ grain in my opinion
great review and greater channel!
In Jason’s video the R&D department mentioned the film is actually about 120 ISO. This is likely why in the exposure tests one stop over looked better!
Yeah, I saw that as well. IMO, they should have released this as a ISO125. Underexposure with color neg causes issues quickly, especially with a film with limited latitude like this one.
@@KyleMcDougall I agree they should have released it at ISO125. I’m sure it was released at 200 for marketing reasons. It seems consumers want high speed film more than anything.
A 70s photoshoot would go hard
good video Kyle
I've never seen change colors like this, its really weird film stuck i think, hope they fix this in the future ❤
It's testing version?
I think it's safe to say they will.
Kyle - that first shot is great. Any chance we can get the print somewhere?
Thank you! Not offering prints at the moment, but I appreciate the interest.
Your pics worked well with this film but very "atmospheric" (AKA grainy and soft). The color quality quite nice but not something I'd run to get my hands on now. Kinda of a grainy/soft Fuji NPS look, which I used to shoot before digital.
This film honestly reminds me of a polaroid a bit. I find the dark shadows and the oddly saturated colors remind me of polaroids. It seems like an interesting film, but definitely needs some tweaking down the road. Thanks for the video and the exposure tests!!
How does it compare to Adox Color Mission? Don't remember if you have made a video about it but it's also a "new" film (manufactured some time ago in cooperation with a company that doesn't exist anymore) which is sold to finance research to improve and produce it again. It also has a low exposure latitude like Phoenix but I believe it has finer grain, haven't gotten my hands on Phoenix yet.
Great test/video as always.
I never ended up shooting any of that one.
GREAT video!!! Thank you for making this! Really useful, objective-fact based info, exactly what is needed to give us the tools to make creative decisions using this film. Could you do more like this? I’d love to see the same breakdown on how pushing/pulling other films affects them, esp with the colour chart and etc. I havent seen anyone else get into the colour science part of it as well as this. Would be really interesting to have a look at b&w in the same way - how does kentmere 400 do when pushed/pulled etc as well?
Was already subscribed but would doublesubscribe if I could - please keep it coming!
Glad you enjoyed this one!
According to Ilford it is technically a 123 ISO film so makes sense the results at 200
Hello, can somebody tell me what film in the market has the biggest grain? I know some people dont like so much amount of it, but I love it