I think you should reach out to Redlettermedia as they are really great on conversations and politics wise the live in Wisconsin the state with the toughest voter rules.
He's right about you on that. It's not about being gentle. You are always in debate mode. You don't listen and take in what the other side says, unless it's a piece of fact that directly refutes your fact. You don't make any human connection. It really sounds like all you care about is being right and proving the other side wrong. You say you went easy on them, but before and afterwards on your stream you called Peterson crazy several times. You don't have or show any respect for people you debate. You might not mean to, but that's how it always comes off. For example, going to Peterson debate, you know you're right and he's crazy. He's a veteran psychologist, and he realizes it immediately. The only time I saw you show some respect was with Shappiro, and that was because you think he's very smart and he actually agrees with you on most of the issues you discussed. It was the only time you weren't in full debate mode.
@@SiavashSafavithe idea that JP left the need to be right back in his twenties incapsulates his glaringly obvious insecurity perfectly. Lol it’s painfully obvious he is constantly paranoid about being verbally out jousted, which is why he constantly interrupted Destiny.
The lines sound funny, but I've seen a lot of people cope in the same manner when they're wrong. Things like "wanting to be right" becomes a flaw somehow.
@@youtubeviolatedme7123 Not necessarily, JP could have tried to be a good host and calmly and dispassionately discussed the facts and flesh out the disagreement but Covid has broken his brain
I mean, Jordan Peterson wants to be right. Because he thinks he's right about virtually everything. The fact that you challenged him on every single belief that he had was uncomfortable to him. And that discomfort he has now internalized as, "Destiny is a combative person who wants to be right and I don' like that."
I must be weird because I thought their discussion was actually good? I thought they both did a good job bringing up the issues they wanted to talk about and address the points they each had... Except it was too short of an interview and too broad of topics... Still good though. To hear him say that is just... Wtf?
The thing is it’s destiny who wants to find what’s true and Peterson just wants his ideas to be right. Imagine destiny said he had simply thought about something for a long time and come to a conclusion rather than actually researched the topic. It’s why Peterson has to attack institutions like science so he can cultivate an audience primed to accept alternatives to science. I actually don’t think Peterson is even aware of this about himself.
That was a comically bad take by Jordan. I don't know if he realizes how disingenuous that sounded or what. I don't like to be argumentative? What the heck are you talking about? That is literally why you are known. It is like Mike Tyson saying he didn't like a fight, because the other guy hit back.
Agreed. There was a time I liked JP. Then he started talking about religion and drifting far right. And now he's become a crybully psuedo-intellectual. Hearing the incoherent garble he said about the vaccine from a biological context was mind-blowing to me. I do think he was a voice of reason at some point but I guess he's become the villain he once fought.
@@andrewjohnson6544 I gotta disagree. I seen Peterson get heated when he was talking to Kyle Kulinski and Destiny. His criticism about Destiny arguing for the sake of arguing and using his verbal intelligence to overwhelm his opponents instead of actually looking for the truth is actually right, but Destiny was trying to be cordial and nice during his conversation with Peterson. It was Jordan who was the one who got emotional. The same thing happen to Kyle Kulinski who gave Jordan Peterson light pushback. To be clear, this happen after his addiction recovery.
@@indigo714 destiny does not just try to be right. If anything destiny is more willing to admit he was wrong than most other characters in his space. The idea that he is just trying to be right is a cope from people who can’t handle his arguments
@@dahlizz99 Everyone including Destiny and Peterson will claim they argue in order to get to the truth. What I want to know from JP is how in the world he discerns the difference between someone genuinely arguing to get to the truth Vs arguing out of a desire to be right. I'm not even sure those two goals are mutually exclusive. When I think back in my times debating people online I was aware of wanting to be right, but when people made points I couldn't counter that provoked me to learn more and either refine or abandon my old positions. Destiny himself has changed his positions a lot, so if a willingness to budge is evidence of arguing to get to the truth, I don't know why JP would think Destiny doesn't do that.
@@jonathanhenderson9422 sounds more like he is coping from someone bringing up serious challenges to his beliefs. That or he watched Destiny's post-debate comments and was offended. I have had people start insulting me personally when they couldn't refute my points, it seems JP is going that very understandable route.
@@dahlizz99 The problem is none of us believe him. It's very easy to say vague retarded shit like "I'm only concerned with the truth" it's much harder to be the kind of person who proves it.
The point he was correctly making was that in a discussion with Destiny, Destiny cares more about being right rather than understanding and exploring the points that the other person is making. This is self-evident by the fact that Destiny has rarely or never conceded on a point in any discussion he has publicly had. In fact to illustrate this further - off the top of your head I urge you to tell me one thing that Destiny has ever conceded in a discussion with someone he is ideologically opposed to, instead of listening and saying "good point I can see why you think this way" he will instead shift the goalposts or strawman the persons argument to minimize the overall point so it's easier to rebuke because he simply HAS to be right. Part of it is ego but more fundamentally it's due to the "Gaming/streaming environment" that Destiny has grown and developed his worldview in throughout the years, whereas someone like Jordan Peterson is more of an Intellectual, very different.
he may have stopped having that proclivity to be right all the time and the feeling of moral superiority that went along with it, but was only later able to describe his own behavior in words. I don't know for sure that's what happened, no absolute way for me to know for sure, but I have found myself doing that when thinking back to earlier times in my life.
that was disappointing to hear peterson say. destiny was exceptionally cordial in their interview. and the audience response vastly seemed to agree with that. he was always old. maybe he is old and tired now.
Peterson doesn't engage anymore in convos where his views are really challanged. Destiny unmasked him in a way by calling him out for dumb shit he's talking about using complex words. He made him practically say that policies around reduced usage of fossil fuels may be driven by the idea of reducing the population xD It wouldn't surface in normal convo, but Destiny has this ability to dig a little further and make people slip. JP didn't like that cause he always want to be the most reasonable person in the room, so he attack him on the ground of him being too agressive and debate brained.
You're missing it. Rewatch the debate, JP was constantly trying to understand where Destiny was coming from. He asked questions to flush out points, and you could feel that he was trying to get to understand Destiny
If Destiny went harder on Peterson I don’t think he would’ve looked better. The truth is Peterson doesn’t usually bring people on that vehemently oppose most of his political beliefs. He brought up Russell Brand as an example, even though Peterson agrees with him on almost all the major issues of today.
I think JBP is particularly tricky bc you’re right, Destiny might not gain anything by going harder, but he also can’t use the gentler Socratic method bc each question would just give JBP opportunity to lecture for another 5 minutes.
@@Cuptial-ev9tbyeah it sucks to. JP is also a big respected figure amongst the right so having him be someone that will talk about having conversations or meeting in the middle only to throw shade after he gets it is frustrating. It's definitely spot on with the idea he doesn't like pushback.
There needed to be a moderator in that debate. Putting the blame on Steven for the debate becoming combative is stupid. Get a moderator next time, Jordan, you bucko.
@@jonglenister3268100% I don’t think Destiny would take someone like Russel serious enough. Russel would bring tons of examples of government corruption Destiny isn’t prepared to discuss so Destiny would try to discredit them and fail. Would be a great debate.
@@Collabcreatemarketing yep, also Russel brand doesnt have an aggressive demeanor so destiny wouldnt be able to cry fowl and say Russel was bad faith or any of that.
@@Collabcreatemarketing What's the implicated prescription behind Russell Brand bringing up examples of government corruption? To make the government smaller? Yes, most Americans hate corrupt politicians, but most Americans also don't want to reduce the size of the government. Why would Destiny discredit government corruption when he could discredit reducing the size of the government instead? Just because an institution is flawed doesn't mean its alternatives are better.
"Destiny wants to be right." is a oddball charge considering debates, by definition, constitute at least two people competing to be viewed as "right," at least by the audience. Pushing that aside, if Jordan seriously expects someone to have their worldview bow to his temper tantrums, or else you're using verbal adeptness as a Lucifarian tool, as he put it, how is that not just projection of the aforementioned charge?
@@Moshm4n You are being uncharitable to his position. His point is that he doesnt have people on to debate, period. And destiny did come on to debate. I think JBP is being thinskinned as fuck here and only likes either 1. clowning on uninformed people or 2. getting glazed. But dont act like he was shocked what a debate is definitionally. That wasnt what upset him. What upset him was how adequately destiny rebutted him.
lol you must be high dude. No one on earth has more temper tantrums than Destiny who expects everyone to bow to him...also Jordan was looking for a discussion not a debate with a condescending debate bro.
Destiny sucks because he wants to be right and uses arguments. oh no. Im not even a fan, nor do I agree to very often, but he plays fair game. The debate was so much fun and Peterson finaly had someone to challenge him after like 5 years of yapping with his own thoughts. And then he ruins it by moralizing. What a loser.
I tell you what it is. Elitism (same with finkelstein) vs Tallent and Effort That Destiny can hold his own against Petserson, propably shocked him. And hurt his selfless ego. LEL
He literally, in so many words, is saying he wants a safe space. He wants to just commiserate about how bad wokeness is and how it's destabilizing our ancient western Judeo-Christian values (that are de facto good and you can never criticize them).
You're equivocating, stupid. Using arguments in the sense of philosophical arguments is not what Peterson was criticizing in Destiny. He was saying that Destiny was trying to argue for the sake of arguing, to score points. Rather than to try to discuss and learn from each other. And that's a fair criticism.
That's why he became a professor! Same with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. The professor types just want to lecture and expect you to discard what you don't like and keep what you do.
I mean, he’s said this tons and tons of time.. and by and large there is some truth to it.. his conversation style is a bit different than say Ben Shapiro or Destiny’s.. he’s not completely full of shit for saying that.
Conservatives seem to want their debate opponents to allow themselves to get steamrolled. If not, they accuse them of being unfair or bad faith. The fact that Jordan pointed to Russel Brand is telling. From what I've seen, Russel's an acquiescent stooge.
@@Mant111are you kidding, this is the most ironic video you could possibly make this comment on. peterson hasn’t talked to anyone willing to criticize him in years until this debate with destiny, and in this clip he is literally justifying why he just wants to stay in his echo chamber of people who will never challenge what he says. and you are implying in a comment on a destiny video that no leftists will talk to or debate conservatives… wtf
@@Mant111 they are only like that because the right wing is desperate for attention and they virtue signal constantly about wanting open discussions free from censorship, despite how they can't handle it and shut it down when they get pushed back on a guest they can't handle
@@Mant111 Conservatives only debate if they think they have a good shot at getting good optics out of it. If their opponent is too competent, they avoid them like the plague. Jordan Peterson has dodged numerous debates with people for seemingly silly reasons. The second debate with Matt Dillahunty that never happened comes to mind. Now Peterson's apparently coming up with another silly excuse for not debating Destiny again. "He's too prideful in is Luciferian intellect".
Jordan peterson literally had Destiny stump his brain for a second at the end, told Destiny he was very intelligent a couple of times, shook his hand, and offered to have him back again. Now hes doing crybully ish on other podcast as a 50 something year old man? LOL. He's just mad how he looked in that discussion because he was getting unhinged, and couldnt properly defend his stances because he lives in an echo chamber and rarely challenges himself. He probably thinks talking to a sub 90 IQ Russell Brand is having someone on to challenge him with different ideas, which is ludicrous at best. Politics is such an insufferable area of "entertainment" to be in, and bless Destiny for sacrificing himself to these unbelievably horrible people in this realm on the progressive left and conservative right. Someone has to challenge these people, and dissect constantly why theyre wrong and unhinged. It takes time, and we've actually seen the slow falling off of a lot of these people over the last decade. Give it another decade and lets see where we're at.
You were kind and respectful to JBP. More than he was to you. He is lying to himself if he thinks he isn’t trying to be right. There are some perspectives he’s not willing to agree to disagree on like climate and vaccines.
Yeah sure but I think both really like to be right. And that isn't the best basis for the pursuit of truth. Destiny really is about winning the debate. After all that is how he makes a living. And so is Peterson.
@@EbonyPope I mean Destiny believes that he's right, but the difference is that he doesn't take it personally if you have equal conviction in your beliefs. He'll tell you why he's right and ur wrong, instead of calling you a devil worshipper.
Be respectful, but don’t placate them. You’re good at matching energy and that’s exactly what you did with Jordan. Who wanted to be right the entire conversation. He’s just like all people who get upset when they are facing someone with comparable knowledge
How was Peterson trying to be right? Did he strawman Destiny at any point? Speak in good faith? Give an example. Just because Peterson got heated doesn't mean he was trying to be right, those are unrelated things. I'll give an example of Destiny doing it. When he said that whole "I guess we're now arguing about what is and isn't a vaccine". It was a passive-aggressive statement meant to be a dunk rather than actually listening, and understanding the case Peterson was making. Which is why Peterson caught it and specified what he meant.
Because those are just dunks where the other person doesn't really even get to argue back in a serious way. He wants to have his "intellectual domination" or whatever but he doesn't want to have to actually work for it, which you have to do if the other person has the time to talk back, and is confident and disagreeable enough to say so.
He's well known to you far leftists for dunking on SJW's cause you leftists consume alot of 1 minute clips. The same applies to Ben Shapiro, you leftists think he only debates college kids in Q&A sessions meanwhile he has debated many different people on the left but theres no 1 minute clips of that so you don't know what happens outside your bubble.
Actually he became super well known because he REFUSED to be arguing with people strawmanning the shit out of him. They wanted to be right, he refused to play into their game, that's how he became famous. People here have so little memory... remember Kathy Newman? No? Right, guessed so.
Lol out of all the content he puts out, a small fraction is debate, most of it is not. Just because his debates became popular doesn't mean he likes doing that more.
Jordan Peterson rambles for 10+ minutes over every question he's asked in every podcast he's ever on, so for him to say he doesn't like to talk to people who "wanna be right" is some kind of insanity
I am willing to be wrong on this is a good mindset to have in any debate. But Jordan is vastly overestimating his biases of the interaction, we tend to remember the emotional parts but we can clearly see in the video with 3.1mil views that the reception was mostly "they were passionate and speaking their mind to no faults". I think more and more as time goes on Jordan is going to keep being peer pressured and completely change his perspective to something out-wordly about that interaction.
Guy needs to have a long hard look in the mirror. He's a bit out there & detached from reality & gets so emotional over slight challenges to his beliefs. He's kind of unhinged. An intelligent person is in there somewhere but..
Jordan Peterson stoped using verbal proclivity as a weapon to show that he is right at 24? Well good that he told us, cause it is hard to notice through the word salad when he constantly tries to impose his right views on you.
What's even more pathetic is that he went into the comments of that clip and was fighting with Randos who were defending Destiny. Steven Derangement Syndrome is more real than others 😂
I agree but it's probably not a good idea to have the idea that "it's not me it's everyone else". But I swear Peterson was the main aggressor in that convo.
If you watched Destiny's appearance on Jordan Peterson's show and your takeaway from t hat interaction was that he made Jordan look stupid, you need help, because what the majority of people saw was Destiny making ridiculous comments about things he didn't even know the basics about, and getting clowned.
Jordan Peterson was so insanely aggressive in that podcast, so he probably expected Destiny to just wilt and kowtow to him. But considering how insanely agressive he was being (with Destiny actually trying to not be agressive) it's ridiculous for him to now say Destiny just "wants to be right".
Don't think he was prepared for any kind of pushback, so he got really mad when Destiny didn't just immediately defer to him on these various issues. Feels a bit like Peterson tends to sees himself as a sort of elevated intellectual who will dole out his immense wisdom to others, and if they have any sense they will see this and accept it gratefully (hence praising Russel Brand who behaved the way he wanted). Destiny pushing back on stuff he says feels to him like a petulant child telling the teacher they're wrong.
I remember hating destiny so much during the Sargon heyday and then listening to his back and forth with Fuentes. I argued a lot with destiny fans and thought I was being logically and morally consistent. I saw my old buddy and old roommate from that period today and we talked some politics. I told him I listen to destiny a lot and he was shocked. People change. Remember that when you are interacting with right wingers. Some of them are salvageable and can become people that understand where right wingers come from. I’m still center right but I have more in common with center left people than MAGA fans.
Yep. I would consider myself more on the right and I had no idea who this "blue haired weirdo" was when I first started getting his video's reco'd to me because I watched Aba&Preach. Then I fell down the rabbit hole of watching way too many of his video's. The way he approaches issues is much like my own and while I disagree slightly more than I agree with his takes. I respect for the most part they are well-reasoned and not just "partisan brain" takes like most have.
@@JackJohnson-sz3dm when someone says center right it most likely falls down to, “I became more moderate,” either he is loose on immigration or liberal on the economy
He just intuited into it and, as it is typical for disagreeable and competitive the people, when they become aware of even the slightest intellectual or educational advantage over their peers, promptly positively loaded the fuck out of the percieved difference. A smarter peterson cautioned a younger me not to stare into the abyss of the internet in general and toxic social media in particular, lest I risk mirroring what i consume. I think I speak forba great many people when I say that I wish he had heeded his own advice.
That was funny. JP was trying to moral grandstand his own maturity and virtue, yet he mucked his age up. It seems to prove he was intending to be exaggerative to portray that Destiny was immature and undisciplined.
The way Peterson said that majorly implies your’re just saying stuff to be right. He doesn’t want an “argument” he wants one of his religious “conversations” like with Matt D. I like Peterson but when he says things like that I doubt his sense of perception because dude, I can plainly see you are so mostly focused on truth and effective principles I have ZERO idea why Peterson would ascribe you any sort of “bad faith.” You’re amazing bro keep it up.
JP is such an odd ball after he fell off. He didn't stop wanting to be right when he was 23, he's still doing it now. Any conversation when you're trying to debunk something, be it feminist or gender pay gap, you are speaking to them in a way that you are right. They say you are wrong, but you insist you are right and provide facts. The actual fact is that he is worst now than he was then. Then he has actual facts, now he has claims conspiracies as facts. JP says destiny wants to be right, at the same time he himself wants to be right. That's how debates/arguments come about. if everyone just goes along with JP's ideas, there won't be a conversation in the first place. it's an echochamber. If what he wants is everyone he talks to glazing him, then stick to people that has the same ideas as he does.
I never got that impression from Destiny, and I've always actually thought he was the opposite compared to the vast majority of people who can never admit when they're wrong.
As a destiny watcher here and there and as someone that for the most part agrees with what Destiny says, I actually agree with Jordan's take here, I get that impression from Destiny.
@@jakematterson8652 Destiny wanting to be correct is pretty justified but I feel that could be said about anyone that wants to debate a particular topic including justin peterson himself the strange part is him saying destiny does not listen and respond to what he says because that seems blatantly untrue unless jordan's meaning is when I say something he says something that disagrees with me ergo he was not listening to me because everything I say is true
@@mr-h6xhe is guilty of it also, but doesn’t change the fact that Destiny is that way too. I will say that Jordan wears his beliefs on his chest where Destiny plays more verbal gymnastics with things.
I get how Jordon may have felt that way, I think that Destiny genuinely perceives his new version of “talking” as being really charitable by holding back attacks and velocity of his voice and thinks that means he’s just having a conversation. But I think it still doesn’t come across that way to most people because he disagrees on almost everything and that’s actually fine if he genuinely feels that way, it’s the way he backs himself up that feels like less of a convo and more of a “well your wrong because” It could literally be all in his tone. He comes across like someone visibly trying very hard to contain himself rather than someone somewhat relaxed and thinking thoughtfully about his explanations. I think this could be helped by both people having the same expectation of what their meeting is about, debate or explorative conversation.
So he should've gotten emotional and thrown temper tantrums and heated rants like Jordan did for most of their debate? Would that have made him seem more genuine?
I think you have a point. But I think the interview was pitched to both as a conversation and they both have different opinions of what a debate and conversation are.
What I sometimes take from Dsetiny, in how he comes across, is that he is trying to communicate his point as fast as possible before he gets interrupted, then led down tangent lane. Which happens a lot in these debate/convo spaces, people can't let the other person get 2 words out before desperately wanting to interject with deflecting BS.
Being right and wanting to be right are completely different. Being right and trying to convince others is different than being right and trying to hit people over the head with how right you are. Destiny debates to make the other person admit defeat. Peterson debates to try to convince others of his views.
@@andrewjohnson6544 He doesn't want to talk to someone that will knock down his entire belief system. Being scared of someone who strives to always be right makes you soft. It's like getting butthurt over a scientists correcting you and your pseudoscience.
It's funny, because Jordan has said before (and multiple times IIRC) that in terms of the big five he is very agreeable, but for how much he has argued and protested openly I don't think that is quite right, lol. I mean he got his big break because of protesting that bill in Canada, and then went touring on different shows and whatnot debating things like that...
My heart warms when you say your dreamguest is Sam Harris... He has been my biggest mentor in every way since i was 19, which was good to have cos ive never had available parents, but im so fortunate I stumbled into his work. He is amazing in every way. And I truly don't even think I'm very biased in saying that.
i noticed that every every culture deals with its own unique form of racism. a latino's racism will be experienced differently than an Asians. an asian indian will deal with a different form of racism then a black person and a white person will experience there own racism. the issue i see is when one group tries to redefine what racism is to only include their group. while denying any other groups unique form of racial experiences. that or they will say it does not exist but if it did then they deserve it because of X reasons. even worse is when racism is being redefined where one group is immune to being labeled racist even if they do the most absurd racial targeting, its such a twisted powertrip gaslight
@@StackingGains because it's obviously not the truth? Come on now that can't be a serious question. You know I obviously don't believe it to be true right? Stop asking useless questions
@silversalmon9909 nice bait. If you put forth some interesting reasoning or counter motivations to explain your evaluation, then I don't mind replying again.
Give one single example where Peterson said something that was trying to be right and dunk on destiny rather than further the discussion of the actual issue.
That JBP clip killed me. 12 Rules is an amazing book and helped me contextualize a lot, and I will always stand by it. But I guess thats what falling off really means. He had a lot of qualms about it because Tiny was the first person to actually substantially disagree with him without being an illogical tool and showed nothing but good faith during the podcast. Even the comments of that pod was full of JP fans appreciating Destiny's demeanor. I understand all the trauma JP endured with his wife's sickness, his benzo addiction and recovery, his clinic being taken away, etc. but damn, his brain must be fried to think Destiny was too argumentative (while JP was leaning over raising his voice and dodging Destiny's points/questions) It's unironically unhinged 😞
I really like Q&A videos like this. They should be titled as such so you know what they are. The only time I get to watch them is when the title happens to align with a topic I’m interested in.
he got some personality issues. that is not speculating, since the dude's face appears on every "alt" channel. he doesn't like arguments, because that indicates people don't agree, and people need to agree as what he says are hard truths and nothing but complete factual correct....at least according to jordan himself. he needs that to feel good, he is an attention vampire.
Steven is someone who, with the collective efforts of a whole community, has thought through his positions to their absolute logical end. And he also believes those conclusions are morally correct. I think so so few people have ever done this and displayed it publicly there is a massive section of the population that doesn’t even consider this idea or a person like that a possibility, to the point where it’s much more logical to think they just want to be correct and are really good at it.
Debating his audience to help root out logical inconsistencies or inaccuracies is very good and makes his positions a lot stronger. Also trying to figure out the common arguments for both sides and evaluating them. However claiming he has thought through things to absolute logical ends is a bit too much. Rather he is honest, and has honed his ideas through transparency, research and massive peer review. There is an infinite amount of information humans do not know, and many unexplored and unknown frameworks to view the world through. Claiming absolute certainty of nearly anything besides logical proofs seems overly ambitious.
i love him for that, he structures ideas i already had and puts them into context, helping me a lot and giving me the tools to actually be able to verbally justify my positions. i also love that he tells his audience to not listen to him on certain subjects and is open about his short comings. i hate his takes on universities, gun control and healthcare but that is actually what makes this whole community that was created around him so awesome. the fact that that there can be discord and we are cool with disagreements.
@@StackingGains Okay when I said “to their logical conclusion” I mean factoring in things we do/can know, information we don’t have access to can’t be taken into account yes.
I would like to see further context of this Peterson statement, he was innitially very excited about debating Destiny for the fact that Destine could pose a challange so this is complete 180
I feel like Destiny is stuck sometimes in a debate mindset. I feel like he needs to go into these conversations with a goal to try and solve the issue at hand rather than proving to someone your way of thinking or views are the best. Peterson in my opinion certainly holds the majority of the blame and needs to look at himself more but in terms of Destiny, I thought his Ben Shapiro conversation was the best. It just seemed like two honest, good faith people arguing how to solve societal issues.
his Jordan debate was not one in which destiny went hard core debate bro....at all. it was peterson being aggressive, cutting him off, being uncharitable with very unfairly framed pointed questions. if you watched that and thought destiny was arguing to argue, rather than simply defending his position against someone trying to push an agenda, your ability to see objectively has been compromised by your biases
@@mr-h6x how did you come to the conclusion that I may be bias? The whole point of what I wrote was me thinking objectively.. perhaps you are projecting that in fact it is YOU that has been compromised by your biases.. This is evident because you are saying Jordan was pushing an agenda. If that’s the case, then surely Destiny was equally pushing an agenda. Because I don’t know if we watched the same thing but to me it just seemed like a back and fourth with both people making interesting points. It’s just an observation (or feeling). I’m not even saying I’m right. I could be wrong. It’s hard to prove and figure out anyway. Besides, I’m not saying Destiny is bad faith. Compared to 99% of the people online he is for sure good faith. But to me, it seems Destiny is trying to convince the other person he’s right, rather than genuinely pursuing the truth. I hate to hold him at such high standards but I think he understands this and at the end of the day, it only helps him and we are here in good faith to give constructive criticism.
@@thegingerbreadgod1312 Can you describe a practical difference between trying to convince people you are right vs. pursuing the truth in an argumentative context?
@@thegingerbreadgod1312 I am biased because I'm a fan of Destiny's content but I definitely remember Peterson being the main aggressor. I vaguely remember him trying to push Destiny into the left-right dichotomy instead of having a convo. If you want specifics I could look for them.
It’s weird how before some of the people getting heated towards Destiny in some of the debates at first would always say that people on the left like destiny always get mad and become soy when debating, but now it seems reversed and now they are getting soy when debating 😂
Here's why people keep interrupting Destiny in debates. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. He talks extra fast to get through his arguments before people interrupt him, which makes him sound like he's just being interrupted, which makes people interrupt him. For example, the Krassenstein Twins talk very calmy and slowly and people don't interrupt them. I'm not excusing people interrupting him, just explaining the reason. It's part of his personality so he'll never go full slow motion, but maybe he could try to calm a little bit in these contentious conversations.
Then by the end of his life he should be the fastest talker in the world, talking at lightspeed so that people can't interrupt him because they don't even know what he's saying
The worst part is I don't think there is any level of pushback that these people will accept. Any time someone challenges their world view in the slightest the reaction is the same.
No JBP was right about that convo. Destiny was controlling himself to come across optically as being restrained and polite. But don’t kid yourself he was there to do one thing, which was to win a debate. That’s fair criticism destiny should listen to. Destiny thinks because he normally is way more insulting to people that being more polite in his combativeness should mean he’s seen differently. But he’s still trying to do the same thing he used to do when he would scream at people, just a more sophisticated version. To people who say JBP was doing the same thing in that convo. He was in parts but he also try to win but he also tried to pull the convo back at points with questions about destiny’s perspective that weren’t combative. He was generally more honest about what he was doing.
He’s a brilliant and famous streamer and who the f are you again? An illiterate consumed with envy for somebody infinitely more successful and important than you? Envious much ?😂
Regarding laptop bloatware, unlike phones, you can just clean wipe the OS on a laptop and don't have to deal with that. But I completely understand your preference for tablets since you mostly just use it for reading, notes, and media viewing. If you don't need compute for anything like encoding, tablets are a great option.
I think the problem is that there are clips elsewhere of Destiny shitting on these people. Candace saw your reaction to her on whatever where you hurled insults at her. About Jordan, Destiny has said horrible things about on stream.
Jordan Peterson 100% diagnosed Destiny like no one else has and his fan can’t stand it. Destiny does in fact use his debate skills to try and rise on the dominance hierarchy so he can sleep with more women, and he wants to be right for that aspect alone.
@@TheHatter510 Everything, even how he talks is based off what hes doing. In this exact video hes talking about how soft he went on JP. Its because his nature is that he tries to dunk on people for clout and he hardly knows how to have a normal discussion.
JP praised Destiny during their convo. I think he got backlash and didn't like the person Destiny made him become during their convo, so now he is writing it off as basically "debate bro" behaviour. Makes it easier for him to move on for his sycophants, instead of linger on his bad talking points and actually address them.
Peterson - I stopped doing that was I was 24??? Wtf is this guy smoking. Zero self awareness. Peterson loves to prove his point, fixates on his point, and talks down to people, and grifts all day
The left cry racism or transphobia at anyone who disagrees with them, and constantly make appeals to emotion, u really can’t see where that comment comes from?
Yep, just as dumb as the fact that the modern left doesn't want to engage in it as they did back in the 60s. Guess you all have become the thing you hate the most, the right. 🤣
isnt it kinda obvious that hes just grifting and syphoning ressources off of the bottom of society just as the likes of walsh, shapiro and the others? if idk anthropogenic climate change all of a sudden was a topic right leaning people were interested in you bet he would make a weird ass video about how climate change is actually the dagger of vengeance of mother nature to cleanse herself from the luciferian manifestation of sin which are we humans or some shit. i get how peterson first got his appeal back at his first videos and maybe his "so you say" interview but beyond that bro is 90% of the time just spouting completely senseless gibberish in the most literal sense. i mean you have his self help stuff which is ok i guess but than again its the most surface level things you could ever think of. "clean your room, look presentable, do not be useless" yea jimbo wow what an insight lol
@@RetreatSequel I see now how my comment that I fired off could be misconstrued. I guess it doesn't matter though since it works either way. Neither Conservatives nor Far left dullards claim it as a value. Only those who value liberty truly believe in the inalienable right of the freedom to speak your mind. The left as it stands today openly denounce it and the right seem to value it only when its convenient.
the JBP debate was so mild compared to how destiny or JBP can be. He chose to be contentious too. The discussion was received super well but then I think the perception that he lost that conversation made him change his mind
I appreciate the physics racism analogy. Four fundamental fources actually is a quantum mechanical concept, the strong and weak forces are quantum mechanical in concept.
I think a good counter to “I don’t want my tax dollars to fund some war in Israel” is to remind them that they didn’t keep this same energy when they funded the war in Afghanistan, which cost the US *$300 MILLION EVERY DAY FOR 20 YEARS!* That’s right, $300M per day, every day, for two decades. But now they worried about their tax money?
Audio-technica also makes great mics for streaming. Last I checked they had an affordable streamer/gamer bundle but that’s in the European shop. Idk how it is in the states
Destiny's Orbiter Tier List | AE PODCAST #007
►th-cam.com/video/7hYMyMClLyQ/w-d-xo.html
I think you should reach out to Redlettermedia as they are really great on conversations and politics wise the live in Wisconsin the state with the toughest voter rules.
No way you're 220 AND a foghat. 😆
He's right about you on that. It's not about being gentle. You are always in debate mode. You don't listen and take in what the other side says, unless it's a piece of fact that directly refutes your fact. You don't make any human connection. It really sounds like all you care about is being right and proving the other side wrong. You say you went easy on them, but before and afterwards on your stream you called Peterson crazy several times. You don't have or show any respect for people you debate. You might not mean to, but that's how it always comes off. For example, going to Peterson debate, you know you're right and he's crazy. He's a veteran psychologist, and he realizes it immediately. The only time I saw you show some respect was with Shappiro, and that was because you think he's very smart and he actually agrees with you on most of the issues you discussed. It was the only time you weren't in full debate mode.
@@SiavashSafavithe idea that JP left the need to be right back in his twenties incapsulates his glaringly obvious insecurity perfectly. Lol it’s painfully obvious he is constantly paranoid about being verbally out jousted, which is why he constantly interrupted Destiny.
@@SiavashSafavito put it another way, the idea that JP wasn’t doing exactly what he accuses Destiny of in that first 2 minutes is hysterical!!
destiny the only streamer who can debate a jpg of a comb for 8 minutes
And lose. He clearly lost 😮
@denzelpfeifer yea, but the comb was wrong
@@pinbraid the comb shit on him. Made him look like an idiot within seconds
Yo I'm usually a big fan of Destiny's content but that comb absolutely destroyed him
That comb is a white nationalist, and a grifter.
Jordan Peterson calling effective rhetoric “the prideful worship of the Luciferian intellect” is one of the goofiest things I’ve ever heard.
"clever as the devil"
if you google luciferian intellect, it comes of as high praise.
What's your opinion on the subject of pride?
@@pinbraid would smash
preferebly in the sun form and i will make do with night form
@@seekyunbounded9273based
The lines sound funny, but I've seen a lot of people cope in the same manner when they're wrong. Things like "wanting to be right" becomes a flaw somehow.
Reminder that Jordan Peterson was more combative and came off "wanting to be right" more than Destiny in that convo. Dude's a glass house.
He has lost it
Cope
I think JP just took it badly because Destiny raised some very good points against his strongly held beliefs and he had no convincing response.
He has stared too long in the abyss, he is using the same tactics the crazy leftists have used against him.
@@kristiansandsmark2048 That's because his daughter harvested all of his adrenechrome /s
When Peterson started talking in the clip I thought he was criticising his own combative behaviour during the debate but no 🤦♂️
There was no moderator for the debate. Of course the debate was going to become combative. It's stupid to blame Steven for that.
He legit sounded like he was about to knock over the table and beat the piss out of Steve.
@@youtubeviolatedme7123 Not necessarily, JP could have tried to be a good host and calmly and dispassionately discussed the facts and flesh out the disagreement but Covid has broken his brain
I mean, Jordan Peterson wants to be right. Because he thinks he's right about virtually everything. The fact that you challenged him on every single belief that he had was uncomfortable to him. And that discomfort he has now internalized as, "Destiny is a combative person who wants to be right and I don' like that."
I must be weird because I thought their discussion was actually good? I thought they both did a good job bringing up the issues they wanted to talk about and address the points they each had... Except it was too short of an interview and too broad of topics... Still good though.
To hear him say that is just... Wtf?
That is a good analysis. Jordan Peterson acting like he doesnt argue to win and prove he is right is insane.
To be fair Destiny is a combative person who wants to be right, he owns that
The thing is it’s destiny who wants to find what’s true and Peterson just wants his ideas to be right. Imagine destiny said he had simply thought about something for a long time and come to a conclusion rather than actually researched the topic.
It’s why Peterson has to attack institutions like science so he can cultivate an audience primed to accept alternatives to science. I actually don’t think Peterson is even aware of this about himself.
@@Theactivepsychos That tracks with the alleged schizophrenia diagnosis.
That was a comically bad take by Jordan. I don't know if he realizes how disingenuous that sounded or what. I don't like to be argumentative? What the heck are you talking about? That is literally why you are known. It is like Mike Tyson saying he didn't like a fight, because the other guy hit back.
To be fair, and having seen most of his interviews...Peterson never becomes argumentative unless the other person takes that stance first.
Agreed. There was a time I liked JP. Then he started talking about religion and drifting far right. And now he's become a crybully psuedo-intellectual. Hearing the incoherent garble he said about the vaccine from a biological context was mind-blowing to me. I do think he was a voice of reason at some point but I guess he's become the villain he once fought.
@@andrewjohnson6544 I gotta disagree. I seen Peterson get heated when he was talking to Kyle Kulinski and Destiny. His criticism about Destiny arguing for the sake of arguing and using his verbal intelligence to overwhelm his opponents instead of actually looking for the truth is actually right, but Destiny was trying to be cordial and nice during his conversation with Peterson. It was Jordan who was the one who got emotional. The same thing happen to Kyle Kulinski who gave Jordan Peterson light pushback. To be clear, this happen after his addiction recovery.
Haven't seen this video yet. I definitely think JP says stuff that means exactly as he words it, and people tend to convolute the meaning.
@@indigo714 destiny does not just try to be right. If anything destiny is more willing to admit he was wrong than most other characters in his space. The idea that he is just trying to be right is a cope from people who can’t handle his arguments
Jordan Peterson saying he doesn't argue to prove he is right is fucking insane. I think Destiny reminded him of himself too much. Ego is a bitch.
He was saying he likes to argue to get to the truth.. not argue to be correct and never budge on a point
@@dahlizz99 Everyone including Destiny and Peterson will claim they argue in order to get to the truth. What I want to know from JP is how in the world he discerns the difference between someone genuinely arguing to get to the truth Vs arguing out of a desire to be right. I'm not even sure those two goals are mutually exclusive. When I think back in my times debating people online I was aware of wanting to be right, but when people made points I couldn't counter that provoked me to learn more and either refine or abandon my old positions. Destiny himself has changed his positions a lot, so if a willingness to budge is evidence of arguing to get to the truth, I don't know why JP would think Destiny doesn't do that.
@@jonathanhenderson9422 sounds more like he is coping from someone bringing up serious challenges to his beliefs. That or he watched Destiny's post-debate comments and was offended.
I have had people start insulting me personally when they couldn't refute my points, it seems JP is going that very understandable route.
@@dahlizz99 The problem is none of us believe him. It's very easy to say vague retarded shit like "I'm only concerned with the truth" it's much harder to be the kind of person who proves it.
The point he was correctly making was that in a discussion with Destiny, Destiny cares more about being right rather than understanding and exploring the points that the other person is making. This is self-evident by the fact that Destiny has rarely or never conceded on a point in any discussion he has publicly had. In fact to illustrate this further - off the top of your head I urge you to tell me one thing that Destiny has ever conceded in a discussion with someone he is ideologically opposed to, instead of listening and saying "good point I can see why you think this way" he will instead shift the goalposts or strawman the persons argument to minimize the overall point so it's easier to rebuke because he simply HAS to be right. Part of it is ego but more fundamentally it's due to the "Gaming/streaming environment" that Destiny has grown and developed his worldview in throughout the years, whereas someone like Jordan Peterson is more of an Intellectual, very different.
"I learned something at 24, I stopped doing it at 23"
Wtf
Yeaaaah I caught that as well
To be fair to him, that was like 60 years ago, so I don't expect him to get the date right.
Made me think of Randy trying to convince Sharon to remove the parental lock on his food channels
he may have stopped having that proclivity to be right all the time and the feeling of moral superiority that went along with it, but was only later able to describe his own behavior in words. I don't know for sure that's what happened, no absolute way for me to know for sure, but I have found myself doing that when thinking back to earlier times in my life.
you dont understand with a 220 IQ you can perform tasks back in time!
that was disappointing to hear peterson say. destiny was exceptionally cordial in their interview. and the audience response vastly seemed to agree with that. he was always old. maybe he is old and tired now.
I think he just knows Destiny came out better and now he is coping.
Peterson doesn't engage anymore in convos where his views are really challanged. Destiny unmasked him in a way by calling him out for dumb shit he's talking about using complex words. He made him practically say that policies around reduced usage of fossil fuels may be driven by the idea of reducing the population xD It wouldn't surface in normal convo, but Destiny has this ability to dig a little further and make people slip. JP didn't like that cause he always want to be the most reasonable person in the room, so he attack him on the ground of him being too agressive and debate brained.
Irrelevant. Destiny was completely wrong and needed to be put in his place.
You're missing it. Rewatch the debate, JP was constantly trying to understand where Destiny was coming from. He asked questions to flush out points, and you could feel that he was trying to get to understand Destiny
Well he definitely wasnt and peterson came off like a crazy person@@jonglenister3268
If Destiny went harder on Peterson I don’t think he would’ve looked better. The truth is Peterson doesn’t usually bring people on that vehemently oppose most of his political beliefs. He brought up Russell Brand as an example, even though Peterson agrees with him on almost all the major issues of today.
I think JBP is particularly tricky bc you’re right, Destiny might not gain anything by going harder, but he also can’t use the gentler Socratic method bc each question would just give JBP opportunity to lecture for another 5 minutes.
@@Cuptial-ev9tbyeah it sucks to. JP is also a big respected figure amongst the right so having him be someone that will talk about having conversations or meeting in the middle only to throw shade after he gets it is frustrating. It's definitely spot on with the idea he doesn't like pushback.
@@CrabyMan I actually believed him, too. I thought he really did enjoy exploring ideas.
Jordan Peterson believes that he doesn't verbally beat people for dominance?
Cope stream is working
Jordan Peterson is use to people sitting in awe of him thinking he is the most intelligent person who has ever lived.
Yep. He has a massive ego and if you don't affirm it he throws a temper tantrum.
Exactly. used* to, btw.
Peterson literally just discribed himself in that debate
But he said it💀 he try to change though that’s why he didn’t like it as much
Yeah I think he recognized something in himself that he didn’t like.
@@2002THEBOY yea when he was 22. Or did I misunderstood
There needed to be a moderator in that debate. Putting the blame on Steven for the debate becoming combative is stupid. Get a moderator next time, Jordan, you bucko.
No he didn't. Being emotional doesn't mean you're trying to be right.
Russell brand is probably the worst possible person peterson could have picked as someone who talks and listens..
Russel brand is the dark horse that destiny probably thinks he could slap around but in reality would be highly challenging for destiny to debate.
He would likely be hard to debate because I think it'd be like chasing the greased up deaf guy.@@jonglenister3268
@@jonglenister3268100% I don’t think Destiny would take someone like Russel serious enough. Russel would bring tons of examples of government corruption Destiny isn’t prepared to discuss so Destiny would try to discredit them and fail. Would be a great debate.
@@Collabcreatemarketing yep, also Russel brand doesnt have an aggressive demeanor so destiny wouldnt be able to cry fowl and say Russel was bad faith or any of that.
@@Collabcreatemarketing What's the implicated prescription behind Russell Brand bringing up examples of government corruption? To make the government smaller? Yes, most Americans hate corrupt politicians, but most Americans also don't want to reduce the size of the government. Why would Destiny discredit government corruption when he could discredit reducing the size of the government instead? Just because an institution is flawed doesn't mean its alternatives are better.
"Destiny wants to be right." is a oddball charge considering debates, by definition, constitute at least two people competing to be viewed as "right," at least by the audience. Pushing that aside, if Jordan seriously expects someone to have their worldview bow to his temper tantrums, or else you're using verbal adeptness as a Lucifarian tool, as he put it, how is that not just projection of the aforementioned charge?
thats not what he said at all lol.
@@shogo359yeah you have to watch all his videos to understand him.
@@shogo359 What did he say, shogo359?
@@Moshm4n You are being uncharitable to his position. His point is that he doesnt have people on to debate, period. And destiny did come on to debate.
I think JBP is being thinskinned as fuck here and only likes either 1. clowning on uninformed people or 2. getting glazed. But dont act like he was shocked what a debate is definitionally. That wasnt what upset him. What upset him was how adequately destiny rebutted him.
lol you must be high dude. No one on earth has more temper tantrums than Destiny who expects everyone to bow to him...also Jordan was looking for a discussion not a debate with a condescending debate bro.
Destiny sucks because he wants to be right and uses arguments. oh no.
Im not even a fan, nor do I agree to very often, but he plays fair game.
The debate was so much fun and Peterson finaly had someone to challenge him after like 5 years of yapping with his own thoughts.
And then he ruins it by moralizing. What a loser.
Destiny is the worst type of debater"Luciverian" .... sure bro. sure.
I tell you what it is. Elitism (same with finkelstein) vs Tallent and Effort
That Destiny can hold his own against Petserson, propably shocked him.
And hurt his selfless ego. LEL
@silverlightsun how'd he hold his own? He responds nonsense instead of thinking about what's been said.
He literally, in so many words, is saying he wants a safe space. He wants to just commiserate about how bad wokeness is and how it's destabilizing our ancient western Judeo-Christian values (that are de facto good and you can never criticize them).
You're equivocating, stupid.
Using arguments in the sense of philosophical arguments is not what Peterson was criticizing in Destiny. He was saying that Destiny was trying to argue for the sake of arguing, to score points. Rather than to try to discuss and learn from each other.
And that's a fair criticism.
Jordan Peterson saying that he doesn't like arguing might be the most insane thing I have ever heard what a goonie
That's why he became a professor! Same with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. The professor types just want to lecture and expect you to discard what you don't like and keep what you do.
@@Tubeytime Actually he's a clinical psychologist, whose work is to listen, not argue, so it makes perfect sense.
Well to be fair he talks about his past.
Why? He's done like about a dozen debates, out of literally hundreds of podcasts and discussions. So how does that imply he likes arguing?
I mean, he’s said this tons and tons of time.. and by and large there is some truth to it.. his conversation style is a bit different than say Ben Shapiro or Destiny’s.. he’s not completely full of shit for saying that.
Conservatives seem to want their debate opponents to allow themselves to get steamrolled. If not, they accuse them of being unfair or bad faith. The fact that Jordan pointed to Russel Brand is telling. From what I've seen, Russel's an acquiescent stooge.
I mean, at least "conservatives" like JBP want to debate and talk to people, not just call them all nazis...
@@Mant111are you kidding, this is the most ironic video you could possibly make this comment on. peterson hasn’t talked to anyone willing to criticize him in years until this debate with destiny, and in this clip he is literally justifying why he just wants to stay in his echo chamber of people who will never challenge what he says. and you are implying in a comment on a destiny video that no leftists will talk to or debate conservatives… wtf
@@inoculatedcity Last time I checked the current left is all about deplatforming, cancelling and calling anyone "nazis", so... yeah. Wtf.
@@Mant111 they are only like that because the right wing is desperate for attention and they virtue signal constantly about wanting open discussions free from censorship, despite how they can't handle it and shut it down when they get pushed back on a guest they can't handle
@@Mant111 Conservatives only debate if they think they have a good shot at getting good optics out of it. If their opponent is too competent, they avoid them like the plague. Jordan Peterson has dodged numerous debates with people for seemingly silly reasons. The second debate with Matt Dillahunty that never happened comes to mind.
Now Peterson's apparently coming up with another silly excuse for not debating Destiny again. "He's too prideful in is Luciferian intellect".
Add Peterson to the ever-growing list of commentators who object to arguments rather than address them
Jordan peterson literally had Destiny stump his brain for a second at the end, told Destiny he was very intelligent a couple of times, shook his hand, and offered to have him back again. Now hes doing crybully ish on other podcast as a 50 something year old man? LOL. He's just mad how he looked in that discussion because he was getting unhinged, and couldnt properly defend his stances because he lives in an echo chamber and rarely challenges himself. He probably thinks talking to a sub 90 IQ Russell Brand is having someone on to challenge him with different ideas, which is ludicrous at best. Politics is such an insufferable area of "entertainment" to be in, and bless Destiny for sacrificing himself to these unbelievably horrible people in this realm on the progressive left and conservative right. Someone has to challenge these people, and dissect constantly why theyre wrong and unhinged. It takes time, and we've actually seen the slow falling off of a lot of these people over the last decade. Give it another decade and lets see where we're at.
You were kind and respectful to JBP. More than he was to you. He is lying to himself if he thinks he isn’t trying to be right. There are some perspectives he’s not willing to agree to disagree on like climate and vaccines.
You nailed it. I thought their talk was good too, the insult is a bit ridiculous.
It seems like part of the reason is that JBP values credentials and his age. He seemed to feel as though his authority was being disrespected.
Why agree to disagree when Peterson was absolutely right and destiny is totaly ignorant and dismissive on those subjects.
Yeah sure but I think both really like to be right. And that isn't the best basis for the pursuit of truth. Destiny really is about winning the debate. After all that is how he makes a living. And so is Peterson.
@@EbonyPope I mean Destiny believes that he's right, but the difference is that he doesn't take it personally if you have equal conviction in your beliefs. He'll tell you why he's right and ur wrong, instead of calling you a devil worshipper.
Be respectful, but don’t placate them. You’re good at matching energy and that’s exactly what you did with Jordan. Who wanted to be right the entire conversation. He’s just like all people who get upset when they are facing someone with comparable knowledge
How was Peterson trying to be right? Did he strawman Destiny at any point? Speak in good faith? Give an example. Just because Peterson got heated doesn't mean he was trying to be right, those are unrelated things.
I'll give an example of Destiny doing it. When he said that whole "I guess we're now arguing about what is and isn't a vaccine". It was a passive-aggressive statement meant to be a dunk rather than actually listening, and understanding the case Peterson was making. Which is why Peterson caught it and specified what he meant.
Sam Harris is exactly the guy I wanna see Destiny have a conversation with.
I think Jordan Peterson should be on a Bridges episode now.
Hah. Oh man…
Nah he doesnt want to be around people who want to be right.
I doubt he would want to since he has Destiny in the category of people he doesn't want to interact with.
Build back better!
"I don't like arguments" says the guy that was super well known early on for dunking on SJWs and the media in his appearances.
Because those are just dunks where the other person doesn't really even get to argue back in a serious way. He wants to have his "intellectual domination" or whatever but he doesn't want to have to actually work for it, which you have to do if the other person has the time to talk back, and is confident and disagreeable enough to say so.
He's well known to you far leftists for dunking on SJW's cause you leftists consume alot of 1 minute clips.
The same applies to Ben Shapiro, you leftists think he only debates college kids in Q&A sessions meanwhile he has debated many different people on the left but theres no 1 minute clips of that so you don't know what happens outside your bubble.
Actually he became super well known because he REFUSED to be arguing with people strawmanning the shit out of him. They wanted to be right, he refused to play into their game, that's how he became famous. People here have so little memory... remember Kathy Newman? No? Right, guessed so.
Lol out of all the content he puts out, a small fraction is debate, most of it is not. Just because his debates became popular doesn't mean he likes doing that more.
People like you say the same thing about Ben Shapiro. Meanwhile Ben has debated tons of people on the left. Dude, you're in a bubble.
Jordan Peterson rambles for 10+ minutes over every question he's asked in every podcast he's ever on, so for him to say he doesn't like to talk to people who "wanna be right" is some kind of insanity
I am willing to be wrong on this is a good mindset to have in any debate. But Jordan is vastly overestimating his biases of the interaction, we tend to remember the emotional parts but we can clearly see in the video with 3.1mil views that the reception was mostly "they were passionate and speaking their mind to no faults". I think more and more as time goes on Jordan is going to keep being peer pressured and completely change his perspective to something out-wordly about that interaction.
How does talking at length about a subject relate to "wanting to be right", exactly?
So many 0 IQ takes...
Guy needs to have a long hard look in the mirror. He's a bit out there & detached from reality & gets so emotional over slight challenges to his beliefs. He's kind of unhinged. An intelligent person is in there somewhere but..
@@frankmarano1118 I think he's just too traumatized by almost dying and it completely changed his ability to critically inspect his own bias
3 fell off in 24 views? Bro seconds
These comments are probably the main reason AI bot comments are so wild
Ahhhh.... good old dementia.
@@tequilasunset4651 this made me laugh so much, thanks buddy
Jordan Peterson stoped using verbal proclivity as a weapon to show that he is right at 24? Well good that he told us, cause it is hard to notice through the word salad when he constantly tries to impose his right views on you.
What's even more pathetic is that he went into the comments of that clip and was fighting with Randos who were defending Destiny. Steven Derangement Syndrome is more real than others 😂
It's not you Destiny. You just aren't supposed to make important people look stupid. Even if you're correct!
I agree but it's probably not a good idea to have the idea that "it's not me it's everyone else". But I swear Peterson was the main aggressor in that convo.
What did he correct Jordan on?
When did he make anyone other than himself look stupid?
If you watched Destiny's appearance on Jordan Peterson's show and your takeaway from t hat interaction was that he made Jordan look stupid, you need help, because what the majority of people saw was Destiny making ridiculous comments about things he didn't even know the basics about, and getting clowned.
lol JP just didn’t like being pushed back on. “I’m above this type of convo… in retrospect.”
Jordan Peterson was so insanely aggressive in that podcast, so he probably expected Destiny to just wilt and kowtow to him. But considering how insanely agressive he was being (with Destiny actually trying to not be agressive) it's ridiculous for him to now say Destiny just "wants to be right".
Don't think he was prepared for any kind of pushback, so he got really mad when Destiny didn't just immediately defer to him on these various issues. Feels a bit like Peterson tends to sees himself as a sort of elevated intellectual who will dole out his immense wisdom to others, and if they have any sense they will see this and accept it gratefully (hence praising Russel Brand who behaved the way he wanted). Destiny pushing back on stuff he says feels to him like a petulant child telling the teacher they're wrong.
@@krombopulos_michael Sounds like you're making shit up to me, tbh
I remember hating destiny so much during the Sargon heyday and then listening to his back and forth with Fuentes. I argued a lot with destiny fans and thought I was being logically and morally consistent. I saw my old buddy and old roommate from that period today and we talked some politics. I told him I listen to destiny a lot and he was shocked. People change. Remember that when you are interacting with right wingers. Some of them are salvageable and can become people that understand where right wingers come from. I’m still center right but I have more in common with center left people than MAGA fans.
What makes you cnetere right? Your social or/and economic views?
Yep. I would consider myself more on the right and I had no idea who this "blue haired weirdo" was when I first started getting his video's reco'd to me because I watched Aba&Preach. Then I fell down the rabbit hole of watching way too many of his video's. The way he approaches issues is much like my own and while I disagree slightly more than I agree with his takes. I respect for the most part they are well-reasoned and not just "partisan brain" takes like most have.
@@JackJohnson-sz3dm when someone says center right it most likely falls down to, “I became more moderate,” either he is loose on immigration or liberal on the economy
"I figured out when I was 24..." "I stopped doing that at 23." Huh?
Riddle me this, bucko! *Pulls his Glock out*
He just intuited into it and, as it is typical for disagreeable and competitive the people, when they become aware of even the slightest intellectual or educational advantage over their peers, promptly positively loaded the fuck out of the percieved difference.
A smarter peterson cautioned a younger me not to stare into the abyss of the internet in general and toxic social media in particular, lest I risk mirroring what i consume. I think I speak forba great many people when I say that I wish he had heeded his own advice.
druggie brain
That was funny. JP was trying to moral grandstand his own maturity and virtue, yet he mucked his age up. It seems to prove he was intending to be exaggerative to portray that Destiny was immature and undisciplined.
Lol are you a robot? Is that really that complicated to figure out what he was saying?
The way Peterson said that majorly implies your’re just saying stuff to be right. He doesn’t want an “argument” he wants one of his religious “conversations” like with Matt D.
I like Peterson but when he says things like that I doubt his sense of perception because dude, I can plainly see you are so mostly focused on truth and effective principles I have ZERO idea why Peterson would ascribe you any sort of “bad faith.”
You’re amazing bro keep it up.
JP is such an odd ball after he fell off. He didn't stop wanting to be right when he was 23, he's still doing it now. Any conversation when you're trying to debunk something, be it feminist or gender pay gap, you are speaking to them in a way that you are right. They say you are wrong, but you insist you are right and provide facts. The actual fact is that he is worst now than he was then. Then he has actual facts, now he has claims conspiracies as facts. JP says destiny wants to be right, at the same time he himself wants to be right. That's how debates/arguments come about. if everyone just goes along with JP's ideas, there won't be a conversation in the first place. it's an echochamber. If what he wants is everyone he talks to glazing him, then stick to people that has the same ideas as he does.
I never got that impression from Destiny, and I've always actually thought he was the opposite compared to the vast majority of people who can never admit when they're wrong.
As a destiny watcher here and there and as someone that for the most part agrees with what Destiny says, I actually agree with Jordan's take here, I get that impression from Destiny.
@jakematterson8652 do you in good faith not think peterson is guilty of this?
@@jakematterson8652 Destiny wanting to be correct is pretty justified but I feel that could be said about anyone that wants to debate a particular topic including justin peterson himself the strange part is him saying destiny does not listen and respond to what he says because that seems blatantly untrue unless jordan's meaning is when I say something he says something that disagrees with me ergo he was not listening to me because everything I say is true
@@mr-h6xhe is guilty of it also, but doesn’t change the fact that Destiny is that way too. I will say that Jordan wears his beliefs on his chest where Destiny plays more verbal gymnastics with things.
@@oidokun Can you give an example of this?
I get how Jordon may have felt that way, I think that Destiny genuinely perceives his new version of “talking” as being really charitable by holding back attacks and velocity of his voice and thinks that means he’s just having a conversation. But I think it still doesn’t come across that way to most people because he disagrees on almost everything and that’s actually fine if he genuinely feels that way, it’s the way he backs himself up that feels like less of a convo and more of a “well your wrong because” It could literally be all in his tone. He comes across like someone visibly trying very hard to contain himself rather than someone somewhat relaxed and thinking thoughtfully about his explanations.
I think this could be helped by both people having the same expectation of what their meeting is about, debate or explorative conversation.
So he should've gotten emotional and thrown temper tantrums and heated rants like Jordan did for most of their debate? Would that have made him seem more genuine?
I've never disagreed more with an observation. There's a healthy amount of bias and conjecture in these sort of subjective criticisms
I think you have a point. But I think the interview was pitched to both as a conversation and they both have different opinions of what a debate and conversation are.
What I sometimes take from Dsetiny, in how he comes across, is that he is trying to communicate his point as fast as possible before he gets interrupted, then led down tangent lane.
Which happens a lot in these debate/convo spaces, people can't let the other person get 2 words out before desperately wanting to interject with deflecting BS.
Jordan literally doesn't want to talk to someone who is always right in a debate. He is completely bizarre.
Being right and wanting to be right are completely different. Being right and trying to convince others is different than being right and trying to hit people over the head with how right you are.
Destiny debates to make the other person admit defeat. Peterson debates to try to convince others of his views.
@@andrewjohnson6544 He doesn't want to talk to someone that will knock down his entire belief system. Being scared of someone who strives to always be right makes you soft. It's like getting butthurt over a scientists correcting you and your pseudoscience.
Who is always right in a debate?
@@porkerpete7722bad phrasing?
He doesn't want to talk to someone who won't just nod and tell him how smart he is
It's funny, because Jordan has said before (and multiple times IIRC) that in terms of the big five he is very agreeable, but for how much he has argued and protested openly I don't think that is quite right, lol.
I mean he got his big break because of protesting that bill in Canada, and then went touring on different shows and whatnot debating things like that...
My heart warms when you say your dreamguest is Sam Harris... He has been my biggest mentor in every way since i was 19, which was good to have cos ive never had available parents, but im so fortunate I stumbled into his work. He is amazing in every way. And I truly don't even think I'm very biased in saying that.
Ha ha gheyyy
JBP admitting he's not out here trying to be correct lol.
i noticed that every every culture deals with its own unique form of racism. a latino's racism will be experienced differently than an Asians. an asian indian will deal with a different form of racism then a black person and a white person will experience there own racism.
the issue i see is when one group tries to redefine what racism is to only include their group. while denying any other groups unique form of racial experiences. that or they will say it does not exist but if it did then they deserve it because of X reasons.
even worse is when racism is being redefined where one group is immune to being labeled racist even if they do the most absurd racial targeting, its such a twisted powertrip gaslight
The only goal for trying to change the obvious definition of racism is for racists to avoid the label.
@@StackingGains simply wrong
@@silversalmon9909 why deny the obvious truth?
@@StackingGains because it's obviously not the truth? Come on now that can't be a serious question. You know I obviously don't believe it to be true right? Stop asking useless questions
@silversalmon9909 nice bait. If you put forth some interesting reasoning or counter motivations to explain your evaluation, then I don't mind replying again.
unbelievable considering Destiny was quite calm in that debate and JBP was interrupting constantly and acting unhinged throughout.
Peterson was the one who kept trying to "be right" Destiny held back so much if anything.
The glazing….
Give one single example where Peterson said something that was trying to be right and dunk on destiny rather than further the discussion of the actual issue.
That JBP clip killed me. 12 Rules is an amazing book and helped me contextualize a lot, and I will always stand by it. But I guess thats what falling off really means. He had a lot of qualms about it because Tiny was the first person to actually substantially disagree with him without being an illogical tool and showed nothing but good faith during the podcast. Even the comments of that pod was full of JP fans appreciating Destiny's demeanor. I understand all the trauma JP endured with his wife's sickness, his benzo addiction and recovery, his clinic being taken away, etc. but damn, his brain must be fried to think Destiny was too argumentative (while JP was leaning over raising his voice and dodging Destiny's points/questions) It's unironically unhinged 😞
I do have a lot of sympathy for JBP fans because this fall from grace is particularly painful. I've been there it sucks.
Kinda surprised he hasn't invited Dr. K onto Bridges yet, or at least I haven't heard anything about it. He would be a great guest.
I really like Q&A videos like this. They should be titled as such so you know what they are. The only time I get to watch them is when the title happens to align with a topic I’m interested in.
he got some personality issues. that is not speculating, since the dude's face appears on every "alt" channel.
he doesn't like arguments, because that indicates people don't agree, and people need to agree as what he says are hard truths and nothing but complete factual correct....at least according to jordan himself.
he needs that to feel good, he is an attention vampire.
It’s getting more and more impossible to take JP seriously.
Destiny pridefully worshipped the luciferian instrinct in this debate
What i heard jp say: “i just dont like being wrong and being pressed on being wrong”
Sweet a video to listen to on the way to work
JP did the same thing as Destiny. He has nothing to complain about.
Steven is someone who, with the collective efforts of a whole community, has thought through his positions to their absolute logical end. And he also believes those conclusions are morally correct. I think so so few people have ever done this and displayed it publicly there is a massive section of the population that doesn’t even consider this idea or a person like that a possibility, to the point where it’s much more logical to think they just want to be correct and are really good at it.
Debating his audience to help root out logical inconsistencies or inaccuracies is very good and makes his positions a lot stronger. Also trying to figure out the common arguments for both sides and evaluating them.
However claiming he has thought through things to absolute logical ends is a bit too much. Rather he is honest, and has honed his ideas through transparency, research and massive peer review. There is an infinite amount of information humans do not know, and many unexplored and unknown frameworks to view the world through. Claiming absolute certainty of nearly anything besides logical proofs seems overly ambitious.
Yall are straight up a cult bro
i love him for that, he structures ideas i already had and puts them into context, helping me a lot and giving me the tools to actually be able to verbally justify my positions.
i also love that he tells his audience to not listen to him on certain subjects and is open about his short comings. i hate his takes on universities, gun control and healthcare but that is actually what makes this whole community that was created around him so awesome. the fact that that there can be discord and we are cool with disagreements.
@@StackingGains Okay when I said “to their logical conclusion” I mean factoring in things we do/can know, information we don’t have access to can’t be taken into account yes.
Jordan Peterson was the combative one in that interview, he was so emotional the entire time
Can someone tell this man a Warm Water port just means it doesn't freeze over in winter!
I would like to see further context of this Peterson statement, he was innitially very excited about debating Destiny for the fact that Destine could pose a challange so this is complete 180
I like Jordan Peterson, but damn is he making it harder and harder to like him.
I feel like Destiny is stuck sometimes in a debate mindset. I feel like he needs to go into these conversations with a goal to try and solve the issue at hand rather than proving to someone your way of thinking or views are the best. Peterson in my opinion certainly holds the majority of the blame and needs to look at himself more but in terms of Destiny, I thought his Ben Shapiro conversation was the best. It just seemed like two honest, good faith people arguing how to solve societal issues.
his Jordan debate was not one in which destiny went hard core debate bro....at all. it was peterson being aggressive, cutting him off, being uncharitable with very unfairly framed pointed questions.
if you watched that and thought destiny was arguing to argue, rather than simply defending his position against someone trying to push an agenda, your ability to see objectively has been compromised by your biases
@@mr-h6x how did you come to the conclusion that I may be bias? The whole point of what I wrote was me thinking objectively.. perhaps you are projecting that in fact it is YOU that has been compromised by your biases..
This is evident because you are saying Jordan was pushing an agenda. If that’s the case, then surely Destiny was equally pushing an agenda. Because I don’t know if we watched the same thing but to me it just seemed like a back and fourth with both people making interesting points.
It’s just an observation (or feeling). I’m not even saying I’m right. I could be wrong. It’s hard to prove and figure out anyway.
Besides, I’m not saying Destiny is bad faith. Compared to 99% of the people online he is for sure good faith. But to me, it seems Destiny is trying to convince the other person he’s right, rather than genuinely pursuing the truth.
I hate to hold him at such high standards but I think he understands this and at the end of the day, it only helps him and we are here in good faith to give constructive criticism.
@@thegingerbreadgod1312agree
@@thegingerbreadgod1312 Can you describe a practical difference between trying to convince people you are right vs. pursuing the truth in an argumentative context?
@@thegingerbreadgod1312
I am biased because I'm a fan of Destiny's content but I definitely remember Peterson being the main aggressor. I vaguely remember him trying to push Destiny into the left-right dichotomy instead of having a convo. If you want specifics I could look for them.
5 hour talk with Sam? Yes plz. Daliban make it happen.
Damn, August really needs the ad revenue from this one
It’s weird how before some of the people getting heated towards Destiny in some of the debates at first would always say that people on the left like destiny always get mad and become soy when debating, but now it seems reversed and now they are getting soy when debating 😂
I didn’t think to make the comparison between Destiny’s convos with JBP and Candace Owens, but that’s spot on.
SAM HARRIS MENTION RAHHHHHH 🦅🦅🦅
R.A The Rugged Man is a fucking legend.
Here's why people keep interrupting Destiny in debates. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. He talks extra fast to get through his arguments before people interrupt him, which makes him sound like he's just being interrupted, which makes people interrupt him. For example, the Krassenstein Twins talk very calmy and slowly and people don't interrupt them. I'm not excusing people interrupting him, just explaining the reason. It's part of his personality so he'll never go full slow motion, but maybe he could try to calm a little bit in these contentious conversations.
The krassensteins… really…. the two old gay twinks no one gives a fuck about?????????
Then by the end of his life he should be the fastest talker in the world, talking at lightspeed so that people can't interrupt him because they don't even know what he's saying
Also, I believe it affects the progression of the debates as Destiny's apponnents often fail to understand his arguments due to his fast speech.
3:04 MFW JP Peterson Burned bridge so fast even though they both had good convo 😢
Isnt 'far left' usually used to describe communists?
Yeah, he always has referred to himself as this and it doesnt make any sense. You can’t be pro-gun and pro-capitalism and be far left lol.
@@oidokunHe mostly means social values when he says 'far left' as in as far left as liberal goes
No it doesn't. Far left CAN be communist. But it doesn't have to be.
Usually at the level of a socialist and anarchist when you go far left.
@@bryson8831 I dont think people associate his held social values as being far left, its always been a weird framing.
The worst part is I don't think there is any level of pushback that these people will accept.
Any time someone challenges their world view in the slightest the reaction is the same.
No JBP was right about that convo. Destiny was controlling himself to come across optically as being restrained and polite. But don’t kid yourself he was there to do one thing, which was to win a debate. That’s fair criticism destiny should listen to.
Destiny thinks because he normally is way more insulting to people that being more polite in his combativeness should mean he’s seen differently. But he’s still trying to do the same thing he used to do when he would scream at people, just a more sophisticated version.
To people who say JBP was doing the same thing in that convo. He was in parts but he also try to win but he also tried to pull the convo back at points with questions about destiny’s perspective that weren’t combative. He was generally more honest about what he was doing.
What do you mean generally more honest
''I dont like debates when the opponent wants to be right and have a debate''
that moment when your adderall hits and you rapid fire your stream of consciousness lol adorbs
He’s a brilliant and famous streamer and who the f are you again? An illiterate consumed with envy for somebody infinitely more successful and important than you? Envious much ?😂
What a minimal effort surface level insult lol
Regarding laptop bloatware, unlike phones, you can just clean wipe the OS on a laptop and don't have to deal with that. But I completely understand your preference for tablets since you mostly just use it for reading, notes, and media viewing. If you don't need compute for anything like encoding, tablets are a great option.
Dropping at 1:30 am is diabolical
It’s 11pm Pacific.
Jordan: when I was 24 I verbally battled people. I stopped doing that when I was 23!
Yeah 😂😂😂😂 and he never stopped!!!!
Mr. Comberelli
Peterson is right. There a difference between disagreeing with someone and needing to be right no matter what.
I think the problem is that there are clips elsewhere of Destiny shitting on these people. Candace saw your reaction to her on whatever where you hurled insults at her. About Jordan, Destiny has said horrible things about on stream.
Its strange to take Petersons criticism as "he thought i was mean"
Jordan Peterson 100% diagnosed Destiny like no one else has and his fan can’t stand it. Destiny does in fact use his debate skills to try and rise on the dominance hierarchy so he can sleep with more women, and he wants to be right for that aspect alone.
You had me until the end lmao
@@TheHatter510 Everything, even how he talks is based off what hes doing. In this exact video hes talking about how soft he went on JP. Its because his nature is that he tries to dunk on people for clout and he hardly knows how to have a normal discussion.
Can we get some timestamps ? I want to see what the title of the video is about, not other stuff
YES get me Sam Harris yesterday!
Sam Harris the 🐐
JP praised Destiny during their convo. I think he got backlash and didn't like the person Destiny made him become during their convo, so now he is writing it off as basically "debate bro" behaviour. Makes it easier for him to move on for his sycophants, instead of linger on his bad talking points and actually address them.
That video clip made me loose all respect for Jordan Peterson, that man has the self awareness of sneako at that point.
Peterson - I stopped doing that was I was 24??? Wtf is this guy smoking. Zero self awareness. Peterson loves to prove his point, fixates on his point, and talks down to people, and grifts all day
im gay
Truly epic
So is Destiny
Congrats I guess
Mazel mazel
Drizzle Drizzle
I would love to see you try out the seminar packets from the program.
Freedom of speech is a right leaning value?? That's the dumbest thing I've heard today.
The left cry racism or transphobia at anyone who disagrees with them, and constantly make appeals to emotion, u really can’t see where that comment comes from?
Yep, just as dumb as the fact that the modern left doesn't want to engage in it as they did back in the 60s. Guess you all have become the thing you hate the most, the right. 🤣
isnt it kinda obvious that hes just grifting and syphoning ressources off of the bottom of society just as the likes of walsh, shapiro and the others?
if idk anthropogenic climate change all of a sudden was a topic right leaning people were interested in you bet he would make a weird ass video about how climate change is actually the dagger of vengeance of mother nature to cleanse herself from the luciferian manifestation of sin which are we humans or some shit.
i get how peterson first got his appeal back at his first videos and maybe his "so you say" interview but beyond that bro is 90% of the time just spouting completely senseless gibberish in the most literal sense.
i mean you have his self help stuff which is ok i guess but than again its the most surface level things you could ever think of.
"clean your room, look presentable, do not be useless"
yea jimbo wow what an insight lol
Ah yes the "Don't say gay" bill SCREAMS Freedom of Speech
@@RetreatSequel I see now how my comment that I fired off could be misconstrued. I guess it doesn't matter though since it works either way. Neither Conservatives nor Far left dullards claim it as a value. Only those who value liberty truly believe in the inalienable right of the freedom to speak your mind. The left as it stands today openly denounce it and the right seem to value it only when its convenient.
I meam jordon peterson most definitely wanted to be right and right when his thought get to challenge he'll change the convo lol.
"if you gonna think that I'm mean, then i wanna be mean".
This is the true way of looking at things.
3 views in 24 seconds? Bro fell off
the JBP debate was so mild compared to how destiny or JBP can be. He chose to be contentious too. The discussion was received super well but then I think the perception that he lost that conversation made him change his mind
These people just don't like genuine pushback lmao
talking without trying to be right is called lying
This is mad delusional at best and really sad at worst.
I appreciate the physics racism analogy.
Four fundamental fources actually is a quantum mechanical concept, the strong and weak forces are quantum mechanical in concept.
That was the most Canadian thing Peterson said lmao 🤣 🤣
I think a good counter to “I don’t want my tax dollars to fund some war in Israel” is to remind them that they didn’t keep this same energy when they funded the war in Afghanistan, which cost the US *$300 MILLION EVERY DAY FOR 20 YEARS!* That’s right, $300M per day, every day, for two decades. But now they worried about their tax money?
Would love to see Armin Navabi on the podcast. I think he fits the description you gave well.
Audio-technica also makes great mics for streaming. Last I checked they had an affordable streamer/gamer bundle but that’s in the European shop. Idk how it is in the states