Inside a pink plastic 500W heater from eBay. (Good for parts.)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 เม.ย. 2020
- I'm not sure why the Chinese sellers like to post pictures that represent their products bursting into flames. Another seller posted a picture of this style of heater being dangled into a bonfire. Presumably to imply fire resistance.
This could be a useful donor unit for the conveniently sized PTC heater block with mountings for a standard computer style fan. The case is quite nice too and breaks down into six parts.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of TH-cam's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
This is the safest fan heater from China, especially when it is turned off.
Hi Clive, you probably won't see this, but I just wanted to thank you. Your positive encouraging attitude influenced and inspired me to give solder a go. For the first time last night, I started soldering and I managed to change a bunch of 3mm incadescent bulbs in my car with 3mm LED with proper resistors, and everything works! It was no where near as difficult as I thought and the few mistakes I made weren't critical or damaging. I'm learning a new skill and have you to thank for it. I will keep going back through your catalog of videos to try to continue to learn and absorb as much as I can ...
and once in a while send friends and family your fanny flambeaux video to give them a fun surprise! :D
Good to hear you've started soldering. The only way to learn is to do it.
For anyone else that's wondering, the SMPS topology is a fairly common inverting buck-boost, but the extra complication comes from how the chip is generating its own power rail and referencing itself with regards to the negative rail of the input voltage. Neat unit, not nearly as sketchy as one might expect!
They make flyback SMPS ICs like that as well (and Im sure other topologies as well). Messing with the Power Integrations TOP250 at the moment which is the same way. Just supply mains and away it goes. Well, theoretically, anyway (I shall see shortly when I power it up.) Of course, worth mentioning that the supply in the vid is not isolated, so it limits its use to things like this that are hidden from the outside world. Edit: The inrush current may be why they used the buck/boost, so the fan will still run even if the heater is pulling lots of current and drawing the voltage down.
That kind of circuit confuses those who still aren't used to the idea that voltage is relative. The fan still gets 12V, just that the way the schematic is drawn, the PSU is "pulling" on the top rail instead of "pushing".
The complexity of the circuit is relative, I have an engineering background and could easily discern the reference and why, however a lot of people that follow Clive are here to learn and discover information from
Clive and his unique delivery, I think showing examples of slightly unconventional circuits like this helps the novice to understand how engineering solutions can be delivered in different ways, with varying topologies and methodology. Clive as always god bless my brother
It's comments like these that make me want to learn electrical and electronics. Thank you for yours!
You would want the fans to keep running if the thermal switch flips, so that is actually good design.
I had one that did this, I think made by Holmes?
Heating coil would cut out when tipped in any moderate amount, but the fan kept running.
@@420anonymous It's a safety feature required on all space heaters afaik. If they fall over, they must turn off, so they have some mechanism to detect if they are standing up or not.
If the fan cut off, it could retain heat enough to possibly ignite something, so I can understand that.
Yeah, I thought that. Every fan heater I've owned that has a thermal trip just takes the entire thing out, fan and all, but leaving the fan running just seems to make sense.
Unless the damn thing has flames coming out of it. Though I doubt the fan would still be running at that point.
@@stuartcoyle1626 It is far more likely that the fan would serve the purpose of cooling off the overheated element than it would stoke any fires it started, I would think.
I was thinking that thumbnail was a bit "exciting"
And it's literally the product photo 😂
The words "plastic" and "heater" always make me nervous when in the same sentence.
There are high temperature plastics but mostly not used in cheap Chinese products.
With these things I think metal would worry me. Poor isolation/grounding in a conductive case.
No worries it comes with fire on the pic
Every fan heater in Australia has a plastic case. They have done since the 80's.
A bit like those Lithium ion power banks with a built in hand warmer! I think Clive reviewed one some time ago.
I can only assume that the Chinese words for “energy” and “power” roughly translate to “fire” in English as that is the only sensible reason I can come up with for the shear number of items (particularly lithium ion batteries where the irony of “Ultrafire” runs deep!) that either have “Fire” in their brand name or have photos of the product immersed in flames as if buying it were intended to set your home on fire.
Direct translation often produce funny results. Even in Europe, there are enough examples where in the languages of related nations one word means something completely different :)
Ultrafire is notorious by being blatant scam, having sort of 1/4 of capacity written on their label. However sometimes they demonstrate quite fiery attitude.
i mean, the way china is at present post-pandemic, fire probably isn't too far off from the truth.
eBay review: zero stars, there were no flames
It's not that bad indeed, (although personally i'd avoid mysterious Chinese ebay heaters in general for practical usage).
The space heater I have is made in China also. what are you trying to say about chinese quality?
at least its better then that "quartz" heater you took apart. I'd trust this one for sure...
I think that picture is what happens when the jerk boss tells the intern "make the damn promo images"...
At least the photo is honest...
"spending all night on the internet researching stuff."
Uhhh, yeah. me too... love "researching stuff".
Yeah, especially the hard to swallow pills like EMF exposure having health effects. powerwatch.org.uk/science/studies.asp
@Joachim Shekelberg What is your reason if it is not too long to explain? Just curious really
Read that right when the part came up xD
@Joachim Shekelberg Me too. I much prefer to have 25 grand.
@@thewolfin be reasonable even sun emits em rad if you r nt affected by that kind of heat 5g is just a joke in front of it. The amount of heat provided by sun is like so much more than 5g could ever give you like even if you swallow it(#notAnyKindOfAdvice)
Today I found a 15 year old bluetooth headset in the loft and brought it back to life using a salvaged li-ion cell from an airsoft tracer unit. It hasn't exploded in my ear - yet. You'd be so proud.
But not as proud as if it DID explode in your ear :)
Clive, you give me hope. I'm officially in my 50s and unable to regulate my bedtime "appropriately." Good job that means F-A nowadays. I'm doing more hours during lockdown than "normal."
Without work to go to at a fixed time it's easy to go nocturnal.
Great video!!
My view on some points:
1) the 4.7k resistor is there to prevent the output voltage from skyrocketing if the fan fails or to fix the load to a minimum value: it's a buck-boost, the inductor would charge and charge the output cap (470uF) until it explodes :( if the load is too light.
2)the 10uF cap provides the vdd for the control circuit in the IC, it goes effectively in parallel with the output when the mosfet inside the IC is driven off and the inductor charges the 470+10uF overall cap through the diodes.
3)why this "strange" reference for the IC? The sole role of the IC is to switch on/off the power mosfet (at the right time!) and in order to do so it must bring it to saturation, so the Gate voltage should be sufficiently higher than the Drain which is connected to the input 400V or so. So without boostrap caps or isolated drivers the chip would have to input a Vgs (let's say 5V) on top of 400V, and 405V from a control circuit is not a thing. It's convenient to use the Source node as the reference for the chip so that only 5V=Vgs are managed by the control to drive the mosfet on/off.
The Flames are to avoid liability if it burns down your house.
"Well, we did advertise it'd cause fire, your Honor. Just look at this picture."
"it looks so simple when I draw it like this.." - haha, my head was spinning at that point - love it Clive, love it
The little capacitor on the COMP pin isn't to provide a stable voltage reference. It's to provide a stable control loop by dampening its response. It sets the bandwidth and therefore how quickly the supply can compensate for errors vs the phase margin. Too great a bandwidth (and therefore a low phase margin) results in ringing and instability as the output adjusts to varying load current.
A loose rule-of-thumb is to set the bandwidth between 1/5 and 1/10 of the switching frequency but it varies with the design and the selection of other components.
Don't think I have commented on the channel before, been watching for over a year. Cheers, these videos are fantastic.
It didnt turn off the heater when you blocked it, the power consumption never went below 140W
@Philip Cross Yeah it was below 150w, oops.
I wouldnt trust it either, at least not in a room with a lot of combustibles
@@Heimbasteln So plenty of other stuff to heat the room then ;)
The little heater is surprisingly good for the money, even with two layers of overheat protection... well actually three, due to the nature of the PTC heater array.
Certainly good value for the parts regardless.
Actually four, since it seems the heater block is in series with the fuse: if it gets hot enough, the fuse will melt open.
@@johnrehwinkel7241 actually 5. The solder joints will meat when it gets too hot. Anything is a fuse if it gets hot enough
Actually 6, when the heater catches fire, the cord will melt thus shorting live and neutral, flipping the breaker in the basement.
@@BenjermenB breaker in the basement? That sounds so American
girlsdrinkfeck Or like most of the world.
Much more sophisticated than expected.
didn't know a simple heater had cool electronics like that!
The print on the bottom sticker reads "Elextrical Fan Heater" 😬
That's a good idea to keep the fan running even if the heater trips. Most just shut the whole thing off, at which point it will just heat-soak if its been blocked by dust getting into the aluminum fins.
A very quick and easy mod. might be to put a switch in one of the leads to the PTC element supplies - so if you don't need 500w, you can reduce the power to 250w. Possibly enough space in there to install a small (Chinese of course!) temp. control PCB / display module too, so what's an already interesting little heater becomes even more useful!
Great as usual Clive, my brain is filling up!!
Thanks
Bob
the great BigClive making great videos and tearing things down
Love the flames on the title pic, makes me feel that the space heater is completely safe.
Am lost with this one Clive. I've got an O'level in electronics but just realized it's been 32 yrs ago. Keep up the good work. x
I watch these videos I have no idea what you're saying half the time but I always like!
I don’t really know what I like watching
BC vids.
Because I’m never going to buy these products.
I’m not an electrical engineer.
I think it’s the rawness of the content and the underlying humour, that’s alway bubbling just under the surface.
This is probably the least dodgy cheap eBay heater you've ever showcased on this channel.
It is almost like they are actually trying to NOT kill their customers. How novel ;)
Seriously though, there are some gems in the sea of crap. There are actually some smart folks who have figured out clever ways to cut costs and sometimes even make better products working for those random Chinese factories. Engineers the world over are pretty much the same after all. Sadly, 'businessmen' are the same the world over too.
Looks like a good little heater
I have a 600w desk heater I bought when living in Japan, it can heat a room 20'x'20'x10' fairly well and a number of safety features.
"Yes hello? I'm looking for a certain product. Do you still have the Mini Portable Electric Silent Desk Air Heater Fan Home Warmer Heating Winter Fan in stock? No no, the DESK Air Heater Fan Home Warmer Heating Winter Fan!"
Generic casing looks like a speaker box, kinda made me wonder if it was a multi purpose design case for other products but prob not.
Depends. Good plastic molding forms are not cheap and have usage limit. Most likely they purchased used molding forms from speaker manufacturer and repurposed for heater cases.
who knows, the same factory could be using the same molds for wireless speakers and heaters. hmm.
Bigclive needs to narrate audio books on insomnia... His voice is incredibly soothing...
This does indeed look like a good parts donor. I'm 120V, so only half as interesting to me. When you've something so size dependent as a parts suggestion, the dimensions would be valuable to share.
The winner in bad marketing wank has to be the Lithium battery line named "Charsoon." I kid you not.
As always good viewing Clive you are one of the most informative blokes on bits and bobs. By the way as per you're recommendation of a girder they are quite addictive :)
Have two of those little heaters. Found them to work well in a small space, even against a winter morning low of minus 8 with heavy frost outside(well, a half centremetre of ice actually), in Australia's winter. I wouldn't trust leaving them unattended though, that's the same will all portable heaters. One of these I purchased, melted its switch and the heater promptly stopped. I remember it from the circuit and replaced it with a switch inline on the cord. Also replaced the foriegn(round pin) plugs with Australian plugs on both heaters, I didn't trust the shitty adapters, even at 500 watts.
In case anyone is wondering, the temperature output at the front of the 500watt version, is 140 degrees celsius(assuming the temperature probe for my multimeter, is accurate!)
In the 1980s there was a big 'advertising' campaign to get people to ditch the trad stove-top chip pan and get a purpose designed deep fat fryer. For decades, Mum used a trad chip pan - we never had one catch fire (once or twice heavily smoking ;) ) but came the day and the deep fat fryer was ordered. The instructions said "do not use empty" - but I didn't want to test it with oil in it. So switched it on, empty. It warmed up a little - and I mean A LITTLE, clicked and never worked again. On disassembly, I found a 4mm double-ended tapered plastic pin between the bimetal strip and the switch. Both having appropriate holes in which the tapered pin should sit (at both ends, not just the one as I found it.) I guess it had bounced out in transit - but once back in its correct place, the DFF worked properly for some years
Until an electrical fault caused a spade terminal to melt through the bottom of the fryer and mark the work top with a pair of burn holes.
We're on oven chips now.
@@millomweb interesting failure. home fryers are not meant for continuous use and thus are skimpy on a lot of things, likely leading to the fault you mention here. if you do a lot of chips/fries, you'd likely be better off doing what you already do, and use the oven, or get one of those low-end commercial fryers. honestly though, fryers are more an ease of use tool for large volumes (say, fast food) so if it's a few dinners, the oven typically is better anyhow.
Looks like a great pocket heater!! 👍
Oh, HOPI. I thought you said the harpy, and immediately thought you had my sister as a guest on your show.
Harsh
@@twotone3070 , you don't know my sister.
EON powerdown is an interesting device, worthy of the Clive treatment. A multitude of uses beyond the interned standby saver function and available very cheaply on eBay and Amazon last time I checked.
I remember when I had the drive to stay up all night on a project, those were the days. Always had a mission to accomplish
It took us 2 years to fit an electric car aerial to our car - from Dec 31st to Jan 1st! Not quite an all-nighter though !
The thermal cut out never tripped, or the wattage would have dropped well below the ~200 watts you saw on the meter. the fan and power supply wouldn't take more than about 7~10 watts, if the element would have been cut out.
Somewhat false advertising with those flames. Many disappointed children.
Thanks Again, B.Clive.
Car interior heaters such as the ones made by Defa are made of plastic and they are quite safe. They also have power up to about 2kW depending on the model.
Seems like you could modify it to have two power settings, or even three. I wonder which part of the the PTC heater is the "cooler" side if you just connect two of the leads.
No because one side might overheat it's plastic side
The good thing about condenser shocks are that by the time you realise you have had a shock, it’s over!
I had scores of them as apprentice TV engineer in the 60’s, when I complained, the engineers told me ‘it’s good for your heart’ 🤬
0:43 To be fair here ... while your house is burning down it is at least warm ...
Like the old saying, "Build a fire for a man, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm the rest of his life."
“This is fine.”
Houses burning up stay warm longer.
That heater that you showed before I have used for like 2 months and my house is still here!
Yes I changed the cord to a proper UK cord from mini fridge and there are no problems
I wish our US plugs, the prons specifically were as robust as their UK counterparts.
Just a few weeks ago, I expirenced what I assume to be "catastrophic faliure" of cheap room heater. It wasn't even ceramic, just a bare heater wire and side blowing fan. For whatever reason, power cord decieded to set itself on flames and i'm pretty sure there were high voltage arcs inside
Reminds me of the "Wooden heater" in little inferno
Great videos as always 😊
3.28 minute's in and already a BIG 👍"s up mate!!
So the low voltage output is referenced to the live side, and the element is live even when the thermostat or thermal fuse is open? Charming.
I run a 200w 120v heater like that in my cars over the winter. In conjunction with some very small dehumidifiers, to keep the condensation down.
So far both systems seem relatively robust
That tiny little first heater from the other video Clive is probably designed to have the heat output pointed toward the person wanting heat. Both that and this 500 watt one are personal heaters although the 500 watt one is a bit high on the wattage for that. The idea of the lower wattage (especially the 150 to 250 watt range ones) personal heaters are to heat the person and not the room. I have a 200 watt one from a reputable manufacturer and on a cold day it can help keep me warm, yet not affect the central heating thermostat only a few feet away. I don't think Lasko serves the UK, but the model I have is the Lasko MyHeat model 100.
Suprisingly well engineered circuitry considering the price
Several years ago, my Boss borrowed a newly refurbished terrace house in Bayswater, London, from a friend for his family during their extended stay of six months.
During a partially cold period, his wife bought a halogen heater similar to the one demonstrated to supplement the central heating and placed it on the bedroom floor
While the wife was using the ensuite bathroom, the heated toppled over, face down onto the carpet and burnt the house down. The incident was reported on the traffic news..
its self limiting. in case of overheat it automatically sets your house on fire and that will burn the insulation of the cables in your house, they will short circuit and safely turn the power off.
My car is self limiting too! If I drive fast enough it will automatically lose control and safely slow itself down using a nearby solid object. Truly genius design.
This is quite a neat unit actualy.
Awesome video brother.
Another great tear down, review and electronics lesson - i've learnt so much from this channel (and yes I do have an 'Explosion Containment Vessel') - it would be good if you could do a video on the potential uses and circuitry for an alternative use of the PTC component - and in the current potential apocalyptic circumstances (April 2020) how about a renewable energy source driving a PTC unit to make a cup of coffee - is this even possible ???
That looks like quite a high quality device for the price.
“ A hwhile ago” this does make me happy
Typical radiator heater in the 🇺🇸 good video @bigclivedotcom
Replacing thermal fuses by soldering them in place is easy - just wrap it in a wet tissue. For high temperature ones water is fine, for lower IPA is a way to go
i liked that little circuit : )
That has gotta be the worlds most complicated fan driver
Just the neutral is fused and the fan is directly connected to live on one connection ... nice 😁👍
To keep the fan running in the event of it overheating and cutting out the heating element. Quite a sensible idea, there is a 13 A fuse fitted in case it all goes to shit, could probably get away with a 3 A fuse but for that startup current
Indiana, 3:30am, and I'm watching Clive take apart a heater... Lol
Nice to know that the fan seems to keep working when it fails at temperature
thanks for the tip on soldering thermal fuses, I would have probably tripped it on accident on a future project of mine.
Plastic and heater seems to be a good combination for fire
Plastic, heater and China more specifically
@14:10 "Elextrical Fan Heater" So close...
Cos it uses elextronix to generate the heat.
This seems to be high-quality
Have you ever had a look at one of those JML plug-in fan heaters?
I have one. They are pretty good but bloody noisy.
I just bought the AmazonBasics ones of these and figured I wonder if Clive is going to look at this. It's basically exactly like this except that it has a switch on the bottom that cuts out if it falls over.
I just vote up at the beginning as of course it will be a "sort of" fascinating performance.
Heat and plastic sound like a good idea
I’m scared to buy anything on eBay after watching a few of Clive’s vids
Id bet they went with an inverting buck/boost to compensate for the high inrush current. If the supply sags down the fan can still run without cutting out.
I always wonder about these little chips that effectively have rectified 240v across them, how much internal isolation is there? I'd imagine there would be quiet a loud bang when they fail.
Compared to some other gems this looks like its made in Switzerland.
Maybe the flames represent what the product turns into after a period of time?
For a Chinese unit, that one had a lot of safety feautres and a reasonable mains cord/socket. Maybe they have learnt some things :).
Thanks for keeping us entertained :)
It was definitely better than average.
The aluminium fins are great at shifting heat. I brazed one up to test as an electronics cooler.
Back in the early 70s I was working on a Greek cargo ship, we got stuck in port in the UK, because the owners had not got the finances to fuel the main engines, had electric from the on board generators , but no heating, it's was cold in the cabins, we took to making our own heaters, an old crab line reel with a strip of bakerlite on each edge, wound steel wire around it from one end to the other, bit like a coil, neutral domino blocked to one end, live the same to the other, hang it above our bunks & plug in, the wire glowed like a conventional bulb filament giving off some heat, thinking on it now, it was highly dangerous, but we were young & reckless back then, also the voltage was DC, we were sleeping underneath these things lol
That psu seems over engineered for just a fan.
Yeah, what's wrong with a good old fashioned shaded pole induction motor?
I wonder if it's really cheaper to rectify the mains power so it can be turned into high frequency AC or pulsed DC and fed into a transformer, then rectumized again and fed to the switching "inverter" of a brushless DC motor that they happen to have in stock, and that probably has an internal switching frequency of 50 or 100 hz.
Delta B Well, clearly it IS cheaper, or else they wouldn’t have chosen it!
It'd be a bit more believable with a variable speed fan. Delta B mentions SPIM which went round my head too but I came out with synchronous motor (like used in clocks, motorised CH valves etc.) that just have a simple coil of wire and no need for rotation. I doubt they can even be classed as SPIMs ?
It almost seems the thermal cutoff switch is a temperature controller for the output instead of just a safety feature.
Looks pretty descent to me. Could you post a link please
After seeing that title your USB charger song is stuck in my head again
"I got it because of the pictures of flames" - Made me laugh, good old Clive!.....
I had a VonHaus PTC fan heater from Amazon, the thermal cut-out melted into the plastic frame of the heating block. Had to throw it away.
Interesting that its cheaper to use a Voltage Regulator and put a 12V fan in instead of using a 230VAC one...
Quite rare and expensive 240v fans nowadays for this size format (I have yet to see one that was not from a 1990 old system after that it's was 12v fans)
Allows for 120 or 240v operation probably
@@linswad heater half heat (maybe as this is a ptc heater probably just pull more currant until it gets hot enough and then levels off, so it probably pull twice the amount of amps to get same heat at 110v) and fan would run at half speed if it was 240v fan (running at 12v means the fan can cover 90-260v range depends if its setup for it or just 240v)
i'm normally bored by electronics channels but this one i dunno, it's got more interesting facts in it or something
Bruh are you uploading videos every hour or what, i watched a "new" vid or yours 3 times today
"New" lasts like a week
bruh bruh the upload date's under the title if u get confused
I was like “ why is he reading it so fast (title of the listing on the eBay) “ then I tried and I knew then