Inside a Znter lithium 9V battery.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2020
- This battery was sent by Kim Sleep, who's sent a few other items in the past. It's a rechargeable PP3 style 9V battery that has a built in micro USB charging connector and a generous lithium battery that gives the unit a capacity of around 400mAh at 9V.
The use of a boost circuit to step the voltage up to 9V means that it remains at that level for the full discharge until the lithium cell's protection circuitry shuts it off.
When I had the unit open I intuitively resoldered the connection between the two parallel cells, as it looked a bit dry.
Russ Wigglesworth sent a link to a full battery test where one of two batteries had only half capacity, suggesting that the solder connection between the two cells was not intact.
budgetlightforum.com/node/51493
If you have a battery and it seems to have half capacity I'd recommend opening it in a half charge state (to minimise cell voltage differential) and very carefully testing both cell voltages. If they are different, then the cells may not be connected together properly. They will need to be at a similar voltage before resoldering them.
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It’s refreshing seeing nicely designed stuff alongside the horrors
It looks easily hackable too to make a small power bank for 5V. That would be a single resistor change for the easiest method. Change a few components and you could make it far more efficient. EG a better shottky diode and inductor with lower ESR.
@@gordonlawrence1448 Indeed, replace the resistors with a very small pot, drill another tiny hole, and now it's a variable voltage battery pack! You'd just need to carry a flat screwdriver, a meter, and a set of custom snap-on connectors for all your needs and... Yeah, nevermind. ;-]
Is there room enough to add what's necessary to allow the end-user to choose the boost to be to, say, 7.2V, 8.4, then 9.6 -- depending on intended use? Would make for a versatile "9V" battery.
@@michaelthibault7930 The ratio between R2 and R3 determines the output voltage. It looks like there's a nice empty bit of floorspace right there on the PCB where you could fit a small SMD trimpot there (2mm Cermet), especially after they're removed or rotated, and the PCB goes with the component side towards enclosure; so next step you drill a tiny hole in the enclosure and you're basically done. Or alternatively placing a trimpot right atop the chip and making a somewhat bigger hole that the whole top of trimpot peeks through. I wouldn't call it endconsumer friendly, ideally you'd want to sacrifice some battery size to fit an adjustment board or something, but if you need an adjustable battery for yourself to fit into a 9V space and are willing to be very careful with it, it can be done. I can't say i entirely trust little trimpots though.
@@SianaGearz Trimpots usually have a short mechanical life compared to, say, a front panel volume control. They may get adjusted at most a dozen times in the life of a product. However, if the trimpot is in parallel with one of the voltage divider resistors, it's failure wouldn't cause the battery pack to exceed the voltage set by the fixed resistors alone.
It's nice to see something that isn't a ripoff, wasn't soldered by a monkey in a thunderstorm, doesn't claim to emit UV-C from a purple-painted torch bulb and actually does what it's supposed to!
The monkey in a thunderstorm line made me laugh. Cheers.
It's pretty sad how much electronic trash gets made and basically goes straight from factory to landfill.
You are ray-ciss against monkeys that have trouble soldering! Watch it!
I'm over 6 minutes into this video and Clive hasn't stuck the battery on his tongue!
What is the world coming to?
You can try that at home !
I have done this with a 9V Lithium ion battery before. It is safe with alkaline 9V batteries, but not with Lithium Ion batteries. Lithium Ion batteries have very high short circuit current. It was enough to boil the saliva on my tongue instantly. Not recommended.
Also if you short it out it can possibly explode while your sticking it to your tongue. Wouldn't be a pretty sight.
I don recommend thith.
@@cassandra2860 What?
Hopefully, you put this back together, this is the most practical rechargeable 9-volt battery I've ever seen.
Hmm. Could you fix (in theory) the wrong cutoff voltage by using different resistors like on the boost circuit, or is it a built-in part of the chip?
@@chichung888 Li-ion would give them a bit more leeway on the cutoff voltage, but not down to 2.2V...more like 2.8V with modern cell design, but I'd still rather not go below 3.0V myself. Too expensive to stress it like that every time you use it, and with that design that's what one is doing if one waits until the battery just shuts down by itself.
The most practical ones are those with a charge level indicator and a button. With this Znter you never know how full is your battery unless it cuts off due to low voltage on the lithium cells.
Guys, is it suitable for the use in a guitar?
@@MaximC The switching frequency is much higher than any audible frequency so I would think it's probably ok to use to power a guitar pre-amp or an effects pedal. FWIW I use an EBL branded equivalent lithium 9 volt battery to power the active electronics in a bass guitar and it works just fine but, as always, your milage may vary. They do interfere with some radio frequency equipment though. I have an MSF clock that takes two AAA cells and after cleaning away the remains of a pair of alkaline cells that leaked while still able to power the device I fitted a pair of EBL lithium AAA cells. They each contain a 3.7 volt lithium cell and a buck converter to reduce the voltage to 1.5 volts. They were great for powering the clock but they interfered with the radio signal it relies on for its accuracy. So I ended up replacing them with a pair of NiMH cells, which work fine and, I hope, will be less inclined to leak than the original alkalines.
"Lithium Ploymer" sign on the front shows quality right off the bat. 😂
It's just a marketing ploy...
I'd argue it *doesn't* show quality. This wasn't too bad on the inside.
@@licensetodrive9930 for preverts
Likely not that much polymer in it anyway, just a li-ion pouch.
Lithium Ploymer batteries are so new, they don't exist yet. Consequently you always have to have the other side up which states "lithium polymer" or the battery will not work.
Clive, I was surprised you didn't put it on a scope to look at how noisy the output was as you commented on the possible problems with using it in a wireless microphone application. Thx for the review.
Or in the effect pedal... It is bad solution for audio equipment.
@@aristoshd every sound equipments is preferable to use linear power suplies
@@aristoshd probably still sounds better than this shitty noisy adapter i use on an ungrounded mains for this little portable guitar amp, add to that i mainly play on single coils... i can do morse code with just touching and releasing the grounding to my fingers lol
i lost the original adapter, that one sounded pretty clean (obviously still had a tad of noise whenever you go between earthing and not earthing yourself to the strings with no mains grounding), but the replacement i found, makes it sound like shit all the time,i actually went back to batteries until i find a proper one (yeah not 9v though, they're 6xAA)
and this is a mostly digital amp modeling little vox, i can only imagine the noise being worse on analog hardware, especially ones using mosfet overdrives rather than opamps, those are hella sensitive to interference lol
i had no idea the power supply was THAT important until i learned about how extremely good inexpensive modern class D amplifiers can sound with clean power and proper 4 ohm speakers lol
They are crap in a very cheap meter so I would assume audio where you want an SNR of 80dB or more even if your kit has a good PSRR (rarely the case with battery equipment). it's going to be a git.
For a low-drain use like a wireless mic or effects pedal you could make a version that did a boost up to about 11V and then a linear LDO to drop it back down to 9V cleanly. Wouldn't even lose a huge amount of battery life under those conditions.
That's actually a pretty nicely designed battery. I wasn't expecting that.
We've come a long way.
Finally a 9volt battery you won't curse at as much.
Nice to see what's inside! I have one of these for 2.5 years now, still going strong. It's great for use with a DSO150 Chinese oscilloscope, it runs for 2 hours on a charge. And even better, you can actually use it while charging, effectively making it possible to run 9v devices on a phone charger.
Thats nice to know. Some powerbank circuitry type stuff turns off the output when charging, if this doesnt thats really useful for a lot of applications.
Think i might actually order a few.
@@_--_--_ my wireless keyboard seems to have such a circuit. About once a month, I have to apologize to whomever I happen to be chatting with and go touch grass or something.
Effectively like a UPS, nothing worse than running a test and then power trips out or accidently unplugged
@@xXponyinthestarsXx lol
@Amethyst
Take a look at keychron keyboards (I'm in love with my K4 & k3)
A friend of mine is using these types of batteries to power old tech when he can’t get the original battery packs anymore, they work very well.
That sounds rather interesting does he use them as is or take them apart and use em?
ucity metalhead - just had a word, he tells me he got his Apple Newton Message Pad going simply by using 4 of the AA type and a battery holder, it worked great, so he’s trying it with various similar old devices from his collection, but it’s proving to be a pain to refit some of them due to the slightly different shape of the free moving batteries (apparently some of the original packs had flat ended cells soldered together yada yada).
The batteries come with a multi-ended charger cable that means he can charge 4 of them at once, so he just takes them out and charges them together, then pops them all back in, the big advantage is how long they last.
@@Lumibear. brilliant thanks for all of the info.
@@Lumibear. I thought the Newton used AAAs or AAs anyhow? Ask your mate to clarify for the whole internet...Or we will come over and shout mean stuff up to his window.😾😸
These are very customizable... Can make a 6v to run lanterns and whatnots that you've swapped to LEDs ;)
I've been the sound guy for a 500-audience-member church and I built a new 9v for the speaker's microphone for each service into my budget. It wasn't as high-stakes as a concert but it still wasn't worth the risk. This would have been the bee's knees for that application. Great device!
Big Clive the man of many screwdrivers!
Wait what? Doesn't everyone have a multi-bit screwdriver kit similar to his?
@@BertGrink I prefer the drink....
@@BertGrink Yes but Clive appears to have Multiple multi bit screwdrivers
@@andyhill242 I have two different kits myself; one contains philips bits and torx bits, the other, also philips bits as well as some 3-point bits for certain phones. ;)
not only many but all the screwdrivers
"Batteries are the perfect noise free DC source." We used to say.
That's gone now. Here is a battery with AC ripple on it; a switch mode battery! Please scope the output to see what frequency and amplitude is that ripple.
I mean, it isn’t a battery. It’s a battery powered power supply in te form factor of a battery.
Back in the 80s we had a lot of TV remotes with 9V batteries in them, but those have become more efficient and now just run on 2x AAA.
@@JasperJanssen it is a PP3 power bank
What if it had 3x 3.7V cells in series and stepped the voltage down to 9V to power things. It could potentially use 12V from a USB PD capable power supply to charge from... 🤔
Could that avoid the noise on the output?
@@iamdave84 Not really -- the noise is being generated by the switching action of the DC-DC converter, and it doesn't matter if it's a step-up or a step-down. If it has a switching transistor, there's going to be ripple on the output -- that's just how things are. I mean, it can be tiny, but - compared to a *real* battery - it'll be there. Still, this is basically a 2P LiPo pack - you could switch over to a 3S and step it down to 9V (which would probably be more stable, since it'd be "empty" well above the necessary 1.5V difference). Also, depending on how you design your charging circuit, you don't need to use 12V - I mean, each cell is 3.7~4.2V, so charge them with 5V (under the assumption that it won't be used when it's being charged, so you're welcome to switch the connectors around however you wish while you're charging it). ;)
Does it have a filter on the output?
I've got to admit having a USB charging 9 Volt battery is pretty damn cool.
Only need a LED "snap-light" to add to the top of the 9 Volt battery for a mini rechargeable torch!!
Yes, there could be a set of little gadgets to connect to it. A torch, a heater, a soldering iron, a mixer/drill spinning thingy etc
@@l3p3 That's marketing genius.
Already on it
Except I would use the biggest damn LED's you can find and really get some light out of it, reading the link in the description, these aren't good for low power applications, because of the drain from the boost circuit. Apparently it makes up for the low power draw by using more power for the boosting.
So the battery will drain about as fast in a low power situation as when it is giving close to its max output (probably something like 200ma if these boosters are anything to go by)
Still, roughly 2 hours of high power LED light and then a USB recharge isn't bad.
I went on a Snowmobiling holiday about 20 years ago, staying in Rentoule, and the highlight was driving at speed across a frozen Lake Nipissing, ending up in North Bay. Totally apropos of nothing but thanks for the memory!
this was clearly designed by someone who not only knows very well what they are doing, but really enjoys their craft
That lithium 9V battery is definitely interesting and an improvement on previous versions I have seen.
Thank you for this tear down.
Thanks Clive, I have a digital tach that uses 9 volt batteries, and didn't know there was a decent option. I just went and bought four, just like the one you dissected, I hope. That is a truly in depth detailed analysis of a rather nice design, and as said before, quite refreshing, considering some of the junk that is most readily available. Well Done. Thank you again.
I guess I'm dating myself, but I always think of these as "transistor radio" batteries. Back when having a radio that you could actually carry around with you in a pocket was a really big deal :-)
It's funny how those radios got called "transistors," and that meme was so all-pervasive that when I showed an actual transistor (the three-legged device which is the primary component of a transistor radio) to someone and told them what it was, they actually asked what station it was set to. LOL.
Edit to add a funny story.
A friend of mine who was an electronics hobbyist who did minor repairs for occasional customers told me how someone came to him asking if he could fix their transistor radio. Upon opening it up, the hobbyist friend found exploded components and burned out and broken PCB tracks. The following conversation ensued between he and the customer:
F: "What'd you do to it?"
C: "I connected it to 240 volts."
F: "What'd you do that for?"
C: "I got tired of buying batteries for it."
F: "Well, you're never going to buy another battery for that radio again."
@@melkiorwiseman5234 But, don't you get better reception with 240V? :-) I actually have a couple of early pocket size transistor radios that run on 4.5V (3 AA batteries) and a couple of "portable" table radios that run on 3 D batteries. One of those radios (a Sony "Handy Personal 7 transistor) shows up in a lot of old family photos from the early 60s.
How did your date go? Did you whip out your radio to impress yourself? :)
I never understand any of your videos but they’re always so nice to watch that I end up watching the whole thing :’)
I remember messaging you about these things ages ago. Good to see a video on them.
I like the idea of these for some applications but always worry that somebody will use one in their smoke alarm. Unlike normal batteries where the output voltage drops slightly as the battery goes flat (and it beeps annoyingly until you change it) these just drop from 9V to 0V when flat, so you're totally unaware the battery has gone in the alarm.
Good point
Won't matter in a mains smoke alarm with battery backup, also that's why you should test the alarm every month (not that we do, do we?)
They banned the replaceable 9 V alarms in CA in 2015 and only 10 year non replaceable batteries are sold. How old are your alarms? PS the long life batteries are also LI type so testing is mandatory !
@@danc2014 mine were 2011, don't think they're banned here (UK) but not checked for a few years as these still work a bit too well (i.e. every time I use the oven)
Well now your set, everything pound land is now rechargeable ... head torches, ozonators , the list goes on :-)
Pocket Pussy's dildos...The list continues on.
That's really rather elegant. Props to the team responsible for its design.
Clive, Really great tear-down and review. I just ordered 4 for my 9v devices.
So cool. Go back even 10 years and you'd laugh at the idea of plugging charge right into a battery from usb. I used to think those triple a and double a rechargable batteries and stations were magic when I was younger.
It would have been nice if they were available years ago, I really got fed up charging the old ni-cad 9vs.
I purchased 9 of those from a Chinese website 2 years ago.
Found 'em on eBay over 2 years ago. They also have them in AA format.
Clive , you are a legend,thank you for making tear downs fun again :)
When these batteries go on fire does the fire alarm it’s in still make sound
Excellent explanation of the circuit. That's why I'm a Patron. Thanks!
got one for $5 from china, love it in my guitar preamp. Charge before a big gig and no worries about battery crapping out in the middle of a concert
thank you very much for the video. Great that you commented on usage with a beltpack as I almost wanted to buy one. You were right on the spot that we always change to a new battery to prevent it goes out during a show. But I also do not want to take the risk of a an added sound to the wireless mic so I guess I stick to the old chemical batteries
The Big Clive seal of approval is a treasured accolade!
I've had a pair of the AA version of this for about three years now. My headphones have an amplifier for the LF drivers, so I just swap the empty one for the spare and continue on my way.
The amplifier in the headphones isn't of the cleverest design, and clearly gets weaker as the voltage drops using primary alkaline, and isn't ever quite as strong when using a NiMH battery.
I haven't been able to pick up any issues with the noise floor from the internal buck converter. The only time things get wonky is right before the battery hits the cutout point and you can hear some faint whining of the oscillator coming through the LF driver.
One happy side effect of the constant voltage is that the bass hits (or the sound of artillery detonating all around me) always has the same amount of oomph.
I haven't really thought about using it with wireless microphones, mostly because at least when I bought these, they weren't the cheapest things, and with the relativey limited capacity (also the fact you can't use the mic's already dubious battery indicator) as well as managing some 40 micro-b charging cables for 20 mic packs, plus the potential for noise to be picked up, it really didn't seem like a good idea.
As the AA battery has 1.5V output, there is definitely step-down converter inside, they give much less troubles than a step-up converters, most likely thats why you never had any sound quality issues.
0:28 Nickel metal halide?! Is that one of those high brightness batteries? X3
Yeah, I heard that on the playback. I'm not sure how I managed to say that.
Maybe you know more than us.
I mean.... it does sound like it could be really interesting!
No, that's about right. Metal halide lights are worth about a nickel today now that LEDs have replaced them.
@@ryanroberts1104 even against HPS people barely bothered with them, well people that weren't actual agriculture businesses, let alone double-ended HPS
i mean HPS had WAY better light production per watt, and no home grower in their right mind would put so much money in non-flowering plants? simpler plants like that could already be grown under blue/white/red panels in 2010 lol :')
they'd rather just pull through vegative phase with the warmer HPS light all the way through.
i woul totally see how MH would have been replaced by led even sooner than HPS because the efficiency was way shittier
it always is the more blue/violet you go, simple old frequency physics, but led does pretty damn well on 6500k 3000k compared to halide sodium
but the disrepancy on led between warm and cold color temperatures is way less in terms of output/watt, if for no other reason than the fact that higher frequencies decay faster over distance and 360 degrees radial light output is a LOT of loss and leds are directional
and for the old cannabis, turns out HPS light wasn't even all that bad knowing now that green is NOT completely useless, and you really don't need all that much blue, 20% is moer than enough
and yeah, can't belive people actually still spread shit about how led is still when cobs made even double-ended hps obsolete 4 years ago, and there are low-power led strips that humiliate everything (220 lumen per watt @ 3500k on the samsungs and stuff), the only thing leds are shit at , is the UV spectrum , those modules are still practically useless, but have always been mad inefficient in artificial lighting.
very nice to see lots of battery packed inside
Finally I've ben waiting for these to come out. Well done sir cheers. From hot soupy kansas
Thanks Clive. I asked you about these over a year ago as I was considering buying some. I did buy them but found that as you say, due to quiescent current, they're not great for things like smoke alarms or my IR temp gun (that sits around for months between uses). They only seem to last a couple of months in the smoke alarm. It's a shame as I hate single-use landfill batteries. Otherwise they're good though. Cheers.
I did work on those wireless mics in the 1980's and 1990's in my shop. I had to tell some customers that the '9v' nicads didn't worked too well in these.
Most of those were rated 7.2 V DC ... some did include an additional cell and would show 8.4 V, still not 9 V though ...
its one of the best 9v rechargeable battery technology ive ever seen so far..
Thanks. This is great. I bought a similar product with a different brand name, and it had 2 lithium batteries in series with no boost voltage on the output. So the maximum voltage I got on a full charge was just over 8 V, which caused my devices to register it as low battery. Now going to buy Znter.
Can you put them in series like normal 9V batteries?
After the total lack of thought that went into the head torch from yesterday. This battery is a godsend, not just lets get away with doing as little as possible, looks like both time and plenty of thought went into it.
Somewhere, there's one clever engineer left on this planet!
Very nice, good to see something designed and built logically.
Much simpler to do two in parallel, because charging would need to be balanced if in series, making it more complicated.
>
I've used these for 2+ years and they work great in wireless mics & IEMS (SENNHEISER)
I've had the AA version for about 2 years too. Been using them in a Shure SM58 wireless for a few months now and I was going to buy 4 more just before the corona.
I probably won't now due to banning myself from funding China's military expansion.
@@tin2001 Anything you buy funds China.
Wait you get stuff that isn't from China?
I find there's a lot of inferior products that aren't from China, thar is also a lot of really inferior products from China to so it's a Gamble.
So your using them in Wireless Mics are you using the 9v or AA?
Or more to the point why would you need to buy batteries for wireless microphones when there is no live events going on? I know I have certainly lost all of my life sound work, thankfully technical support, computer support and live streaming has picked up a little.
I bought 4 aa Znter cells a couple years ago. They are also regulated, and they've worked great. I haven't taken them apart, so this was very interesting! They are pretty slow to self-discharge and they stay right at 1.5V until it shuts off.
That is definitely an interesting concept. I have a lot of 9v powered test tools so something like this could be very useful if done properly
Extremely well designed. I would suspect that the switching frequency is too high to be an issue for audio applications, assuming the audio equipment is well designed.
That's the issue...
Many battery powered audio circuits don't have the extra circuitry to mitigate the noise from a cell like this, as they never planned on seeing anything except pure d.c. from a battery.
One interesting application note: the current available before voltage sag in a LIon battery 9v is a much different curve than in an alkaline! Some unregulated devices like analog acoustic pickups in guitars rely on the fact the current sags under load. It can drastically change the sound of the amplifier :)
VOLTAGE sags under load ...
What a good idea -- putting the battery IN the instrument so the output can have a nice low impedance would mute much of the usual hum pickup.
Good to see some more battery tech. Love battery tech. Been a while
I have the Okcell version of these and they have a level meter on the side.
I love them, they have been one the best battery purchases I have made. 10/10 would recommend these
I have both and the Okcells only have about half of the capacity of the Znters. That's no big deal usually though as they have such a high self-discharge that I charge before use anyway and the Okcells are usually high enough capacity.
I've ordered a rechargeable AA 1.5v micro USB charging battery. I am glad to have paid for it
Any idea of it's real capacity?
@@gordonlawrence1448 I ordered 1500mAh but real capacity was 850mAh
I've been using four of these in a head torch for a very long time, and they have been completely reliable. I've also got their "18650" size rechargeable for a UV torch, and that's pretty good too. I would most certainly buy them again.
I've seen Li-ion USB rechargeable batteries on Amazon before but never really thought twice about them. If there are versions that wouldn't pass on that noise to wireless mic transmitters, they could absolutely save quite a bit for audio departments! Only trouble would be to make sure someone on the team remembers to recharge them after each performance 😊. I guess keeping a few micro USB charging leads next to where the mic packs are stored could be a good reminder.
It would be better off with a USB charging station with the exact number of cables to mic ratio and maybe a few more and make sure everything gets charged every night.
I don't think all of the ones on Amazon use a boost converter. For example, the "Enegon" brand rechargeable 9V that they sell specifically states that the output voltage starts at 8.4V and goes down to 6V. This strongly suggests that it simply contains 2 Lithium cells wired in series. This could be a problem for devices that cut out just under 8V, leaving most of the capacity of the battery unused, but at least there would for sure be no switching noise. I would hope that such 2 cell batteries use smart enough charge circuitry to balance their 2 cells.
I love it. I love all the little Lipo packs put into little batteries and cases like this. I'm a vaper so I have an intrigue of any Li-ion batteries. Especially these little guys with the circuitry built in.
2:00
Can confirm. My mom is a journalist. She changes batteries on her mic every 4 hours of use regardless of the remaining charge for safety (she is not the type of person to recycle them, of course). I coaxed her into buying a bunch of Eneloops (the regular ones, Pros don't make sense since they will be used for only 4 hours in a mic at a time), those work a lot better, don't have any risk of leaking, and would probably last till the end of time (my Apple NiMH batteries, which are basically rebranded Eneloop HR-3UTG batteries, still work absolutely fine). This solves the problem for microphones that take 9v batteries.
I considered using the D-cell version of this for my radio restorations. My concern was RF; the converter clock on mine was in the MHz range, and the ripple was not negligible. It would be interesting to see how much output ripple is present across the various sizes of these.
Another concern is if the buck regulator fails shorted to output. Then you'd get full LiPo battery voltage instead of 1.5v and toast your radio. At least with the 9v version, if that happened, you'd effectively just have a flat battery and no harm done.
I'm using the D, C and A versions of this battery for Nerf blasters that I did not modify, and they're working extremely well for this purpose, as they keep the voltage the blasters need
what about using those D-size 3xAA holders? So use 4 of those holders and say 12 eneloop AA's. (Assuming nimh voltage curve useable.)
Is it worthwhile trying the 'scope on these to see how noisy they are?
It's an interesting question. The only filtering is the RC filter created by the output capacitors and the voltage divider. If the chip is decent and switches in the 100+khz range you won't hear it in normal audio. However, it's the harmonics that get you.
I was thinking precisely the same thing.
BigClive should have 'scoped this battery both open-circuit and under load to see just how noisy the output is -- and maybe even installed it into a wireless mic or other line-level audio device that requires a +9 volt supply to see if anything untoward happened. *PUT YOUR EARPLUGS IN EVERYBODY!!!* ;-)
@@telephony maybe it's time for a follow-up video
@@arthurmoore9488 I have designed similar kit. At 9V you get about 200mV of noise unless you go a bit mental damping it down. That's on 80% load. As a rougg rule of thumb I always recon 20mV plus 20mV per volt of output. You can quieten that down but it costs and in commercial applications another 10p of components is a no-no. For switchers in audio the only solution I have found is boosting to well over what is needed then a 2 pole eliptic filter into a linear reg with the switcher boost about 500mV over what the linear needs to operate. Then of course a shed load more decoupling. You can get it down to less than 20mV at 10V for that but it's an absolute git.
But surely an easy fix with a decent cap across the snap connectors ?
That UB7QA is actually a UBxxx which the marking reads back as a SY7152A 1Mhz 2A step up regulator.
Perfect swap for my old TI-57 LED calculator battery ! Thank you for this teardown.
Great for metal detectors, they usually use more than one and they gobble up the power!
I am of the thinking the "foil" wrapping you took off could (stress: COULD) be used to shield the RF from the coil. Though it wasn't grounded so probably not.
seems legit as its in contact with the usb port
ed. didnt see the case is maybe plastic on these, the other cell types have metal cases aswell though
I just bought one. Mine has the USB port on the top, on the side by the terminals. It is labeled 600 mah. It also is more accurately regulated, nearly bang on 9.0v. Thanks for enlightening me to this battery :-)
Very impressive tear down and battery. Something I could use.
There was a similar battery based on super-capacitor some decades ago. Capacity was not much, but charging was possible in seconds. Voltage above 9 V at output pins was the charging current.
I'm really liking this. However apart from my multimeter's and smoke alarms, I'm trying to think what else I'd use them in...
Hell I'm debating buying two for my work, we go through so many 9v batteries for our door dinger. We go through around two boxes of 12 a year
Hmm, smoke alarms? From what Clive was saying, the remaining charge would not be useful after 6 months, where standard PP3 bats I know last for at least 12 months. Was thinking of buying 2, and jst 'remember' to charge them twice a year, but would I remember? Doubt I would :)
Might be great for paintball, between my markers and hoppers I'm always stocking up on them!
My DMM takes 4 C cells. It uses one about every 50 years. So C cell shelf life is important for that utilisation.
@@comicmania2008 the other issue is that a PP3 will go 9v, 8.5v, 8v, 7.5v, smoke alarm beeps to tell you to change yer battery.
These would go 9v, 9v, 9v, 9v, dead because they boost the voltage. No warning. No alarm.
I'd not be using them in smoke alarms. :/
They look good and also come in other battery sizes from a quick search AA and AAA - Well made and it's a welcome to change to see good reviews of the products :-)
Thanks, Kim!
The boost converter chip is an MT3608 boost converter IC. Available from china for .1c a peice
@@andrew_koala2974 IC = Integrated Circuit 1c = one cent .1c = one tenth of a cent
@@andrew_koala2974 Seems like you dont quite know how to use a decimal point to put it in your own words.
You know that something can be cheaper than 1cent/pc in high quantities right?
0.1c/pc is pretty much on point for this chip in high enough quantities.
Remeber as a great man said AVE. "Cut towards your chum not your thumb"
UB7QA - device type UB - last 3 digits are year code, week and lot number. The data sheet/type is a SY7152A. Its almost identical to the LT1613 you showed. Made by Silergy. Just realised this has popped up in my recommends almost two years after you posted it!
Li-Ploymer, that’s my favourite battery technology.
But do you get the same sensation when you put your tongue on it???
yeah thats the 'indicator' clive asked for. inbuilt already!
I wonder would it feel differently due to the switching?
@@CollectiveSoftware Two big caps on the output so probably not. Also, since the boost circuit is regulated the output voltage won't drop noticeably until the cells are flat, rendering the tongue test useless except for amusement.
@@Miata822 amusement is what we are here for:-)
@@fredflintstone1 ...with snacks thrown in now and then !!! Lol !
reminds me of the AAs with a usb plug hidden in the top i used to have for my wii remotes as a kid
I still have and use some of those
You were a kid when wiimotes were the new hotness. Aww. Bless.
These are still widely available, although inconvenient to recharge if you need 6 of them. Suddenly you need 6 usb ports
yodaco ocadoy i was 7 when the wii came out
@@jjcoolaus
Znter's micro USB design works somewhat better.... They sell a 4 way charging cable so you can do 4 off one USB port... And the AA ones only charge at about 100mA so even a standard old phone charger can do 4 at once.
I love voltage boosters! Good to see them being used a lot more.
No they are bad
They do have their disadvantages....
@@davelowets Can't the noise be filtered easily?
It is a 3 led level indicator in the Okcell version PP3 style 9V battery.
Now if they had room to throw an LDO with a nice filter cap, no more audio issue.
Wow, something useful, and screwed together as well
This is nicely designed! The only change I'd make to it is to add an oh-so-tiny slide switch between B+ and the DC-DC converter's input, therefore allowing trouble-free long-term storage of the thing, without having to worry about it potentially going dead to the point that the battery charge circuit won't let it charge (a perennial problem with these lithium-ion batteries that depend on a DC-DC converter to derive the required voltage).
Lovely little battery & useful as I loathe having to buy the alkaline ones due to their cost & then have to discard them. At the risk of adding a failure mode I might be tempted to put a micro switch in to shut off the battery when not in use. I have a bee catcher that I use to catch & release bees from the poly tunnel which is only used a few months of the year & having one of these that I could share with other things that are also rarely needed would be nice. Thanks for sharing!
I just bought one
Si haces vídeo estaría muy bien si puedes probar que tan estable es su salida de voltaje y el ruido que tiene bajo carga, Saludos
@@fdavpach I don't think it would have much more performance than standard USB powerbanks. I guess it would be able to deliver quite a good amount of current and given it's circuitry, it may not produce much noise. My question: Do we really need this? Maybe not... xD
Good for you
@@rhodexa I just want one for my thermometer.
@@jansenart0 What king of thermometer? Those with a thermocouple and a simple LCD Display? I'm pretty sure it would run just fine with any rechargeable cell that can deliver about 3V...just replace the 9V battery for any lithium cell and you're done! It would need a little bit of art to put it together haha
I modified my multimeter connecting a LiPo and a charger inside (that was about a two years ago and i only charged it a single time! i guess 2500mAh it's a little bit overkill for a LCD meter. 😂).
(Of course i don't mean this is optimal, but for this devices with built-in low voltage regulators works fine)
All of that quiescent current assist to be in the output voltage divider. I guess the values could be increased a bit of you really needed a lower quiescent current. Not that it really matters I suppose with a six month shelf life.
It's the quiescent current that gives it the shelf life. I'm going to get one and hack it for efficiency and lower quiescent if I can. I have one I use for a custom light but that is staying as is.
Pit they didn't fit an on/off switch down the side - so it could be switched off hen not in use ?
@@millomweb
Could but a really tiny slide switch on one, I got a "card phone" the slide switch for the battery on/off would easily fit in the battery case.
@@deaultusername Yeah. I suspect there's room up the side in the groove formed between the 2 cells. Or possibly on the top between the 2 connectors.
How!? Why?...your comment was apparently posted one week ago - yet this vid only came out yesterday!
Timelord!!
neat product. not so handy long term for things like a TV remote. but they would be great for things like paintball markers which can use several 9v batteries in the loading system and deplete them fairly fast. the boost converter would help a ton because you can keep the voltage up and keep the motors running at full strength even when mostly discharged. i never really liked 9v rechargables but these might actually be quite good. you don't need to have separate chargers is also a bonus. it would be really cool if you could tweak the voltage with a trimpot thru a hole in the case.
Beautiful Explaination. Well done! Very standard circuit that is well done
Pretty neat! I do like battery-related reviews. I've got some lithium ion 9v batteries that have the charger outboard (but bundled) and no boost circuits, they're just two cells in series. They're closer in voltage than the nicad 9V, and no switching noise (I actually use one in a cheap pocket oscilloscope), and remarkably about the same price (from Amazon) as quality alkaline 9v batteries. I'll never buy alkaline 9v for anything except smoke detectors again 😁 The kind I have might be better for your wireless mics.
I’m fascinated. Two lithium cells in series (I’m guessing is what is inside yours) are 8.4v fully charged and 7.4v nominal. So never hit 9v. Only other option is 3 in series which is 12.6v but that’s far behind 9v. Its possible a buck converter could be used which always produces much cleaner signal than a boost. And I’d be curious to see 3 lipo cells in such a small casement. Which is possible but the cell capacity would be tiny.
Have you taken these apart? I’d be curious to see if any of the above circuitry exists. Especially considering they are more than likely polymers, which is more volatile and almost always requires a bms.
@@mrb3888 I'm pretty sure they're labeled as 8.4v. a pp3 is just 6 tiny little 1.5v cells, it drops from 9v really fast. I've gotten a NiMH "9v" that was a bit over 7v rated, and it worked fine. I think devices that use 9V batteries are prepared for pretty wide voltage swings and low current. And yes I'd hope there's a protection chip in it, but that only needs one or two tiny ICs, no big deal. People already make AA-compatible lithium ion batteries which need a buck converter, and with built in USB charging. Well within the realm of possible. (And like I said, pretty cheap, only slightly more than alkaline!). Amazon has them, the brand is EBL, and the kit comes with a separate charger for them which now runs off USB, which is even better than the previous gen I had.
I love these kind of batteries...though, I think we need to vote to get rid of the 9v format entirely. It was fun while it lasted. I wonder how regulated it is...maybe you can check the level with the old lick test. :)
It's a great format. Could easily be redefined as a 2S protected lithium pack with a charge balancing contact indented on the top. Output range would be 6.4 to 9.4V stable DC depending only on charge level. Protection circuit needs to deal with accidental output shorting in addition to the usual dangers.
9 volts are amazing for easily and cheaply creating high voltage. I got 100 at a dollar store for 50 bucks ones and got some really nice arcs.
Why do you want to get rid of it??
All the active bass guitars I ever had in the shop were using one or two 9V batteries to provide a decent voltage for the active pick-ups and/or preamp. The mind boggles at musicians loading 6 AA's before the gig, and the rattling that this would invite :)
I am quite fond of the the little blocks, anyway!
mumblbee bee they also make good throwing weapons or filling a sock with them to swing around but AAs not so much imo
@@Alexander_l322 The 9v is every bit as obsolete as the "A" and "B" battery. There is no reason for it to be in wide production and distribution. Outside of the dollar store (where they have really shitty batteries) they are the most expensive battery you can buy per watt, and they never last very long. This rechargeable battery is useful but it's only an effort to modernize outdated electronics. There is no reason in 2020 any device that needs a battery can't just take a 3.7v or 3v lithium cell directly and set the voltage itself. 9 volts come from time when you couldn't just get that kind of voltage very easily.
As a landlord, I am required by law to change every smoke detector battery every time I get a new tenant, even if they aren't dead or old yet. And you do not use dollar store batteries for this. It's an annoying pain in the ass. So instead I replace the entire units with modern smoke detectors that are either 10 year sealed units or take AAs. Obviously I'm not the only one that thinks they are obsolete. But of course, Energizer and Duracell would not want to see this battery go extinct!
To the average consumer, these are the most expensive battery that last the shortest and they are least likely to have a spare for. There is no actual need for the voltage level when DC-DC converters are so cheap, easy, and efficient. There is nothing they can't be built into.
what a simple and nice battery. solving an actual problem
I think I might buy a couple of those and give them a try. A theatre group I work with is using Trantec Microphones and the lav. packs use PP3 batteries; we swap the batteries out every-other show to avoid the embarrassing moments of a battery crapping out. They don't go to waste as we do run them dead when doing rehearsals, but it's a lot of hassle and it's wasteful. Maybe, this is a viable option...
Li-Ploymer?
It is "Ploymer" in it so it has too be good....
Vos explications sont excellentes 'as usual'. Bravo, keep the excellent work up.
2:09 Can confirm. During a big conference, we'll go through hundreds and hundreds of batteries. I bring tons of them home, as most of them have over 50% life left. Usually you have the microphones running all day, and they will generally run for 8 hours on a set of double-a's (or less frequently 9v's) but there are only so many coffee breaks, so you have to change them at a break point regardless of whether they need it. As Clive said, it's really bad to have one go dead because you forgot to change the batteries, so most sound engineers err way on the side of caution. Also, another important note, if you are taking all these half used 9v batteries and throwing them in a box, remember to put a bit of tape on the top, as they can short circuit against the metal case of another battery and start a fire if you aren't careful. AA batteries don't have that issue, thank goodness.
Clip the half-used PP3s together in pairs to use as hand warmers for your walk home after the conference / show (Old BBC Studios trick; NOT recommended!)
Of all things, I just find the only 400mAh available a little sad in this amount of volume.
With a bit more homework, that can easily be doubled in the same form factor
(same for the noise)
I have the Okcell T18287-2000 800 mAh battery. Great little bit of kit and VERY useful at that capacity. Has a charge meter on the side too. Alas, not as easy to take apart as this one.
If it's 400mAh at 9V, you shouldn't compare it to the capacity at LiPo voltages. If you compare the Wh you'll provable get a more decent figure.
i found actual oldschool 9v batteries to be quite pedestrian to begin with in terms of continuous load, so the power:form form factor ratio was never anything to write home about,
i would probably never design a device around 9v myself (but that's because modern ICs all run perfectly well on 5v already)
but i guess it's nice you don't have to mess with multiple batteries in series which comes with way more demands on having all your batteries balanced
But that 400mAh is at 9 volts, not 3.7 volts. So energy-wise, it's equivalent to a single 973mAh Li-ion cell, which isn't too bad. It's a pity battery manufacturers don't scrap mAh ratings and switch to Watt-hours instead - much more meaningful.
1:51 I almost died
Why?
Yes, why?
He nearly stabbed his hand :(
These are now available with USB-C connectors which are scads better than the old micro USB. New versions also claim 650mAh, one version is called MaximalPower.
Interesting as always.
What is the max current that you can draw from the 9V side?
Thanks for sharing 👍😁
20 second non skippable add at start. bloody youtube ))
Ublock Origin plugin on firefox... never seen an add yet!
Desktop or mobile app? Desktop (or mobile with non-Chrome browser): Adblock Plus or Ublock Origin can easily fix that. Otherwise, let the ad play for a few seconds then stop playback and restart. After a few tries it should start playing the video. Works for me at least.
Use Firefox and get the You Tube Ad Block add-on, I've never seen an Ad on any video since I got it...
Never seen an ad - Use vanced for android to skips ads, supertube for fireTV or ublock for PC browser. Also install a pi-hole for your network
Utube Red takes care of adds.
Thank you for great review and explanation.
Been watching this guy forever but I don't know crap about electronics.
I ended up designing my own 7.4V LiPo circuit to fit inside the case of dead 9V batteries just to avoid dealing with the inevitably high self-discharge of these circuits based on boost converters. I don't want my multimeter to be dead after a couple of months of storage nor do I want alkaline cells to leak, so I just used a 2s LiPo circuit with protection and balancing: a pair of 402040 380 mAh cells fit nicely in a 9V battery case, with the circuit between the two.
I know it's a long time, what converter have you used to power up the multimeter