OLD STEAM POWERED MACHINE SHOP 15 Pouring the mains
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2016
- This is Number 15 in a series of videos that I created in my shop to depict how things were done in the target year of 1925. This one concerns the re-pouring of babbitt main bearings on a vertical stationary steam engine that is being overhauled in the shop under steam power. Your comments, discussion, or questions about line shaft , steam power and machine work are always welcome...Dave
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Hi Dave
I have been collecting and restoring mostly hit-miss engines since I was 14 years old ( 85 last Jan. ) and I did the same DUH thing when pouring mains for a 1904 Rambler car engine I restored a couple of years ago. When I pour with an arbor I usually smoke the arbor with an acetylene flame to keep it from sticking. That seems to work really well. Keep up the great work.
Dan
I send these processes and techniques to my Grand Son at Industrial Design School.
At 75y and a practicing product producer this thinking in our times off cnc an ai is off great nessesity.
Bit off a shock to see what came out off the box gosh…..
Love watching this old machine slowly coming back to life.
Thx so much for showing this process ! ... Nice job....That shaft should be happy for another lifetime !! ...My dad would mention he did this at work on large engines back in '30's & 40's.....I never actually seen it done....Thx for sharing...
Very talented. Good job. I’m getting ready to do my first babbit pour on a olds seager type a8 hp this winter.
Thanks for reposting this, I missed it first time time around. Love you're work.
your doing a great job Dave! love to watch your videos a have learned a lot from you
Another Great video keep up the amazing work!
Thanks Dave, very enjoyable video,
I did ultrasonic inspection of babbited bearings when I worked at the shipyard. The inspection requires a special calibration block. Ultrasonic inspection is good for detecting lack of bond. I never knew how the babbit was poured. Thanks for the video.
Nice work Dave. Thanks
A real video. that top cap is something we all do. get distracted, forget the plug, amazed you weren't a cussing storms!, they turned out great! such a cool art, babbitt's.
Thanks Dave, most useful....! Cheers, Dan.
Dave, keep up the great videos.
second time of viewed this one,it's so detailed and carefully done. Thanks
Thank you for the lessons on Babbitt pouring. I plan to be doing a little of that in the future.
Ingenious way of making NLA Babbitt bearings. I'll add it to my toolbox.
Nice pours David. Thanks for sharing.
He he he he...
Made exactly the same mistake on my very first babbit casting - forgot about the oil hole...
In the early 70's South Africa had sanctions against the country and one of the many items was babbit material.
One of the foremen had a relative in eastern Holland who would buy the material, melt it up and pour it into a mold of a 2 inch high castle (like the chess piece)
He would polish them up, linish the bottom and stick on a piece of felt and post them to us from multiple post offices in Holland, West Germany and North West France, all declared as "birthday gifts" and complete with card and photos of "family".
In South Africa we have an Afrikaans saying: "Boer maak n plan"
Afrikaners are known as "Boer" meaning farmer.
So you get "Afrikaner makes a plan".
Wild days back then.
Very interesting story....Dave
Great video Dave, thank you. Right, I'm off to watch No. 16!!
hi dave you are a very talented man , realy enjoy watching your videos
regards robin(adelaide south australia)
Very nice video, Thanks for the information. I wouldn't expect anything less than perfection from someone with the last name of Richards.. I'll be a continuous customer of your videos.
Awesome to watch Dave. I’m “in the process” of learning how to pour new Babbitt bearings on a old shingle mill from the 1880’s era that I purchased and want to restore. You and your video has helped me immensely, thanks again and keep producing videos from the old steam powered shop, I’m really enjoying them.
Dellas: Thanks for watching, Good luck with your bearing project. Nice thing is...if you don't like the way it goes, you can always just melt it out and try again....Dave
@@davidrichards5594 If you don't like the way it goes, it will go the same way the second time if you don't pay more attention to your pre-heat. You need 500 F on the shaft and shells, verified .
I love watching you do babbitts! :D
Thanks for sharing and recording this. I've been a mechanic for nearly fifty years and have heard a lot about the process but never seen it done before. In school I used a South Bend lathe that had babbitt bearings and it was quite accurate. Now I need to see the boring and scraping portion of the job. Again thank you!
A very happy reminder of when my dad and I would melt down old wheel weights and make our own fishing sinkers buy pouring the molten metal into a sinker mold. I learned to handle molten metal safely! Thanks for posting!
Lol.... I remember doing that also !!
It was good to see your little test for the quality of babbitt. That's my kind of engineering ;)
yeah, destructive testing, the best kind.....Dave
Hi Dave. nice job. I like your idea of using a piece of conduit or pipe for a mandrel.
Thanks for sharing, about to have an attempt at this myself and your video was wonderfully informative and helpful
Keep us all posted on how it's coming along....Dave
Looks just like it did when I was a kid .. ! AWESOME ..
Hi Dave: As always I enjoy watching your videos. I am restoring a 1912 Oakland automobile that was badly worn out and abused during its 106 year life. It has a 4 cyl. non removable cyl head engine with the cyl blocks cast in pairs of two cyl's each and two separate cast iron blocks. It has an aluminum crankcase with three main bearings. The front main bearing is cylindrical babbitt that is press fit into the alum. crankcase and the center and rear main are cast iron housings bolted to the alum crankcase. The center and rear main are the split type with caps and removable babbitt inserts , they are keyed to prevent rotation . Because the front main is not split the crankshaft has to be installed from the back or bell housing end toward the front, and the center and rear main castings have to be mounted to the crank shaft beforehand. It is really clumsy to put the whole thing together. Some time during its life the engine broke or threw the # 1 connecting rod. Judging by the scars inside the crankcase it came to an abrupt stop and all that energy split the front main bore of the crankcase and opened a crack in the alum. about .030" wide. along both sides of the bore. I Drilled and tapped both sides with 4 holes on each side of the bore 3/8-24 thread. I heated the whole crankcase over a pile of charcoal until I could melt 50-50 solder on it and proceeded to tighten those 3/8 socket head capscrews down until I closed up the cracks on both sides. I wasn't really sure if I could close up the cracks or strip the threads doing it. I made a mold for the front cylindrical main, coated it with anti-sieze, placed a dummy shaft in it with a centering setup and poured a new main. I left the ID small and the OD a little large and when it cooled I pushed it out of the mold and machined it to size. After many hours of work the engine runs great. and I am presently restoring the body. I won't bore you with all the other details . I really like this old machinery and it is a challenge and true enjoyment to bring it all back to its former glory. I can really identify with all you do so well.
Ed from Colorado.
Thanks Ed,
Interesting design and an interesting successful repair. ...Dave
Huge thanks for episod that i've don't see.
Brilliant Video
Thanks for the info! I have a Prat and Whitney metal lathe that needs this done. Think I'll give it a shot, since there is about ¼ inch of play in it anyway! 😆
Hi David! Love your films. Best on the tube. I resently found an German made lathe from 1938 Boley & Leinen. Just getting to learning how it works. Mostly because l really get inspired by your work. Tanks for sharing! Best wishes! Mackie from Åland
Thanks Mackie, glad you are aboard...Dave
Hi mate. Good to see that the mishap with the oil holes did not change this time. ( O;
great video, my dad use to tin ships bearing's
I am making white matter babbitt bearing
Another nice one David. When I saw the Babbitt run out the holes I said Aw that sucks, then I laughed cause iv'e done stuff like that before. A friend of mine and I once fixed a radio test set power supply in the radio shop. We went to lunch than came back and turned on the test to find it still didn't work. We were baffled and spent the next hour troubleshooting only to find out while we were out to lunch someone in the shop had taken out fuses. The shop had been running low on fuses so we guess they figured that since the radio test set didn't work it didn't need fuses. We put new fuses in it and it worked fine after that. Never found out who did it but we wanted to spray Freeze It in the seat of the chair they were sitting in. Thanks for the education. Best Wishes n Blessings Keith
Escalating shop pranks huh?....Dave
Yep, this was quite common in the 80's when I was in the Navy. We'd take a can of "Freeze It" Electronic Component spray and slip it in between the plastic chair and their butt crack, then let her rip. Usually some unsuspecting victim in about 2 seconds would jump up with a holler, and a white frozen butt crack. Then the shop laughing and snickering would begin. Paybacks were a B-asch as you could imagine. It never hurt anyone and it definitively would lighten up the load on board the aircraft carriers after months at sea. Of course there were some ground rules. You couldn't do it if, they or someone had there hand in a live circuit or if someone could get hurt if they were startled by the yell. It sounds odd but we were professional about our pranking, and were professional pranksters as well. A production or repair shop is really no place for pranks and horseplay. So it was done with the greatest care to ensure no one was hurt.or any equipment was damaged. After all the pranks were usually done on friends, usually. Take care David. See you on the next video. Best Wishes n Blessings. Keith
I've done a lot of this work when I was younger , we used to to have 2 pots on the go, one with old babet ( we call it white metal in England ) and one with new , to get the old babet out just drop the piece in the old pot, and we'd make soft hammers with the old babet later
cool, and when the hammers bet beat up you just repour the heads....Dave
Yes we used to make them quite large. An old tin can with a hole in the side for the handle ( weld a tee piece on the end of the handle so it holds the head secure ) putty the hole up and support the handle , heat up , then pore in. Then cut the can off. one large and heavy soft hammer.
We used to do a lot old car engine bearings, and even bearings for old ship engines , I visited my old work place some time ago and there specializing more into that work
nice job.
The idea of pouring my own bearings just freaks me out. Of course, I've only ever dealt with modern bearings.
A quality torch...... SMITH"S........the best
Regarding the aborted pour of the top bearing saddle. A friend of mine who changed the oil in his cars himself once had the experience of finding all the oil he just poured on the garage floor and all over his shoes. He forgot to replace the drain plug on the oil pan. From then on a sign that says "NO DRAIN PLUG" is always placed on top on the engine while the oil was drained overnight. Lesson learned.
Draining the oil overnight to get a few extra drops ? How anal is that.
Deja vu, good news is I think you get these bored fine and the crank fits after some hand work to finish. :-)
Tell him Brian. I'm so addled I better leve it be.
Oil hole....... Dang. Reminds me of 1976, built a 347 Chevrolet (400 block with 327 crank via main bearing spacers). Fired her off, and she promptly pumped 4 quarts of Kendall GT out on my shop floor. I'd forgotten the cam galley plugs. Feces doth occur (Shakespeare).
Nice!!
If you want to know what type of babbitt you have, you can send a piece to ROTO METALS and they will analyze the composition for free. They also supply most grades of babbitt. Selection is based on SFM and load in PSI. Lead based can handle speeds less than 1000 SFM and loads under 500 PSI. Some of the tin based is 5x the price of lead based.
Bonjour David,
I like your videos, I learn a lot thanks to them, but I would not eat what you are cooking :+)
Amicalement, Raphaël
what? no taste for bearing stew?....Dave
Some Babbitt Helper from Betty Crocker.
Спасибо за информацию !
Dave, you are a great teacher. We were wondering if you pour babbitt for the old model T's or A's? Beautiful work my man. Thanks
Great
shaper action!!
David becareful using the galvanized electrical conduit. When heating that stuff, the fumes off of it can kill you. That also might be part of the problem with porosity in the babbitt too.
Right Gary, but it isn't getting any where near hot enough to get the galvanizing going, only about 250 degrees....Dave
Do you ever use a flux , before skimming off the dross ?
Casting with wheel weight metal , I dip the end of a candle in the molten metal , stir & then skim .
Best of luck , :-)
Wyr
God bless
Hi David! Is there a reason why you use a chisel to remove the Babbit at around 26:00 instead of using a mill or a shaper?
I had been hired to pour babbit for alligator shears and my own shop equiment. I had followed your basic procedure, since I did not know about your bearing putty I used plumbers putty with success on many pours. One think I know I did differently is poured my upper shells in place with some shims installed before the pour. What advantage is there in pouring them separately ? If i had to much drag on my bearing I could add shims or use a half round file to cut my bearings into place. Crude I admit but these thing s were large in size and it was all I had to work with. love these videos.
Hi Dave, I assembled the bearings and bored them to a dimension. Pouring the bearings around the original shaft would be done the way you did it. You could also scrape down the "high" spots to get more bearing contact surface and then adjust the shim thickness to get a good fit.....Dave
I was hoping to see the brazing repair
Hi David, I have watched all of your videos and just want to say how much I enjoy them. My great friend and I considered him a a second father was a avid steam fan. He made several models of steam craft from engines to tractors. We worked together in a shop where he tough me so much about working with machine tools. He has passed away now but i have great memories of him and I continue to work in the machine shop daily. I think his love for steam power rubbed off on me and I am so glad it did. I have some small flat belt pullieys and would like to send them to you. Please advise where to find your address.
Thank you for all your efforts making these great videos. Harvey
Harvey, thanks for the comment, my experience with steam power and old shop work came from my father also. I can always use pulleys, I'm starting to run out. Dave Richards, 8 Rock st., PO box 367, Newark Valley, NY 13811.......Dave
the 2 old mills i worked in the 60's they added a little type metal to the old babbitt, and some other old babbitt.. cheaper than good babbitt, but the type metal did not help the quality of the babbitt...
Thanks for the demonstration on babbit pouring. What is the story behind the regulator clock ticking in the background? It brings back some memories. Hope to see something on the atlas lathe in Florida.
It's an Ansonia brand short "schoolhouse" type of about 1910. Sorry no story, I bought it from an antique dealer.
You taking apprentices??
I have heard that a lot of marine steam engines used a wood called lignum vitae (wood of life) as bearings. Hardest wood there is, it won't float. Very hard to come by today, except maybe in Guyana on odd tuesdays of a year..
Wood bearings...with a little oil....they work well...
My parents sold/rented/repaired Pianos back in the 1950-70's......quite a lot of wood parts with wood 'bearings'.....
TH-cam guy here makes lots of wood machinery with wood bearings....Matthias Wendel.....
I too watch woodgears.ca!
The old threshing machines had a lot of wood bearings.
I think they were just hardwood, with plenty of oil and grease soaked into them.
There were fairly slow turning shafts.
I worked on a ship once that had lignum vitae in the stern tube as bearing material. We had to remove it as they were replacing it with some other material.It was laid in rows of blocks. Once we found the row that acted as the "key" to hold it all together then removing this row caused all the others to just fall out. We called the wood ironwood. Your right it wont float.
I have turned ball point and fountain pens out of lignum vitae and it looked great. Actually I have turned pens out of just about every species of wood out there. After a few years turning pens got old like me. I must have turned over 600 pens, why I don't know. I donated most of the pens and gave many as gifts.
Que precio tiene una barra de metal blanco para rebabitar
5:55 What holes in where?
man 0 man been there before - T=up David
Is there any reason why you couldn't mount the caps to the bearing frame with your shims in place and pour the bearings in the cap and frame at the same time through the oil slot at the top?
Hi Steve: You certainly could do it that way and it's the way it was commonly done outside of a shop. You would have to scrape in some bearing clearance and I think machining is a more accurate way to do it on an engine....Dave
Dave, did you butt the washers right up to the castings? What acts as the the thrust surface?
Yeah, and then put the clay around over the OD of the washers and on to the casting, so if it leaked under the washer it wouldn't get past the clay....Dave
Is that any relation to Roger Babbitt?
Do you not have to use any flux to stop oxidization before pouring??
No flux with babbitt John, I just skim off a little impurities before pouring...Dave
if you find bullion dealer with an XRF machine put it under the machine and it will tell you what is in the babbit verry accuratly, just a thought
Which method do you prefer and why? Sooting the shaft or never seize or something else?
I don't soot up the shaft with acetylene flame because it makes a mess. I never had problems with using never seize or chalk...Dave
Hi again K. Greer here Sir have finished the rebuild of the steam engine ?? If so like to see it run also I wonder the exhaust from you engine goes straight out why don't you run it into a larger pipe cemented in ground then going up above the shop roof line can also put a nipple and valve just above ground to drain condensate from large pipe with a rain cap to keep out rain and snow this will give you less engine noise and protect side of shop from moisture ??
Kyle: Less engine noise? My neighbor would complain. I have thought about that and it's a good idea. The condensate could be run ito some kind of a trap to seperate the steam oil also.....Dave
Pouring too much is better than too little
What is the expected life of a babbet bearing like the one you just made for say an average operation over the years?
Hi Ed, Boy that is really hard to say because it depends on so many things, probably the most important being lubrication type and frequency (oil or grease). The load on the flywheel end and the grade of babbitt would be a factor. I think they would run for a couple years and then pull out some shims and scrape the high spots....Dave
....For holes and voids in newly cast parts....can you make repairs as you would with 'brazing' or soldering...? I've never seen this subject addressed....and.....in High School...1963-4...we did some small Babbitt projects, but we always 'tinned' the parts first....we even had a can of 'tinning butter'...
What determines the requirement of tinning--or not....? I know some guys don't tin the parts, but there are grooves and/or holes drilled to maintain the Babbitt in place..
You could tin the housing if it's a thin pour like a bushing, but I never have...Dave
When I previously saw the pouring of white metal bearings the bearings were wiped or primed before pouring.
That's true John in automotive and other work. Nearly all machinery babbitt is just poured into the rough cast housings and is mechanicly held in by flowing into drilled holes, slots or dovetails. you saw how hard it was to remove...Dave
It's Deja vu all over again! What was changed int the repost? Thanks,
Chris
I was cleaning up the you tube editor files and it just decided to delete things indiscriminately, so I pieced it together again, sorry about that.....Dave
No problem, I enjoyed watching it again. I figured it may have been something odd like a copyright strike where you had to remove music or something. Thanks, Chris
No problem. , Dave. Just as long as we know that we aren't rewinding!
Allot of views not seen before.
Babbitt it's what's for dinner lolol 😂
Good stuff! You have probably done it by now(3/21/17)-- gotta get a lapel or throat mike. Can't hear you over the torch or machinery when commenting.
I have been told that coal/soot deposits from a far too lean adjusted torch like you are using (assuming it is a oxi acetylene torch) will act as a anti spatter and release agent...
Actually you just use acetylene, no oxy. It makes a sooty smoke that floats around in your shop and makes a mess. I'd rather use anti-seize grease.... Dave
It's the graphite in Never Seize that makes it work . Another product that some may have on hand that will avoid a sooty shop is wood stove polish. It's blackening agents are soot and graphite. I've heard that milk of magnesia also works well but I've never tried it. @@davidrichards5594
I would like to have about 50lbs or old junk babbitt. I use it for casting bullets. Its better than straight lead.
Lead you can go to wrecking yards and pull old wheel weights.
But lead coats your barrel 🙄
Not fun too
Clean.
this one ended up out of order in the playlist. Just letting you know.
After your comment about tin-based babbitt, I decided I ain't eating over at your house anytime soon.
What is that stuff which is used to seal washers. Is that gray goo from the future?
Called Babbitt-Rite, special high temp clay for doing that kind of work...Dave
Hm I see, ok tnx. I try to guess what composition is, but probably will find out, looking at same stuff as replacement for it, it says asbestos free so I guess it was at some point some kind of asbestos mix with something. Interesting.
..30+ years ago...I used to buy some putty like this called 'Heat Fence'.....had asbestos in it...I was in N. cal...had to go to Oregon to buy it......
After Babbit, what is the next best solid bearing material? I just subscribed which is rare for me.
I would say it depends on the load and speed. Special types of bearing Bronze are used a lot in old machinery. Cast iron against a steel shaft works pretty good too if it's kept lubricated. Of course now there are umpteen kinds of plastic, nylon, teflon, viton and a lot of other "lons".....Dave
@@davidrichards5594 Agreed, some folks confuse brass for bronze, I find brass is a bad choice. Bronze is better. Of course, the shell bearings in car engines have the longest life of all bearings.
hmm so is it possible for you to acutally make a lathe from scratch of steel and iron, if someone had the time to wait and had the money to front up? they say you can build a lathe if you have the knowledge of the parts to build one, that and an old saying on a black and white video a lathe is the only tool that can build itself, and the primary of all the milling machines.
a lathe isn't really complicated, it's basically a motor turning an axle.
precision might be a problem, but you could look at treadle lathes, they are basically a tree, a rope and two points.
Another nice video. I have a special set of Babbitt files. They are tapered and have a different grove pattern in them than normal. Have you ever heard of special files for Babbitt? I can send you a picture if you like
I've never seen anything other than scrapers...Dave
harrismetalsmith I've never herd of them but be interesting to see them.
...I think Mr. Pete had some.....
what's the name of the bike guy with the BSA
Mike Waller of channel Britannia Motorcycles.....Dave
are you going to scrape them?
They were actually bored to fit the shaft dimension....Dave
I don't understand why u don't soot the crank and pour the bearings with it installed
Could have, this was just a more accurate way of doing it.....Dave
Hallo, jetzt habe ich es auch begriffen, und ich weis um was es geht. Hast du mal als Lokschlosser gearbeitet. In meiner Jugend habe ich sollche reparierten Lager verbaut. Jetzt, nach 50 Jahren, konnte ch bei dir sehen was da gemacht wurde. ☺
Hello, now I understand it too, and I know what it's all about. Did you ever work as a Lokschlosser. In my youth, I installed a repaired warehouse. Now, after 50 years, ch could see with you what was done there. ☺
Why the re-post?
That's what I was wondering. I thought this was familiar.
I thought I was crazy lol.
Joseph DAndrea Boffus laddie!
it was missing (deleted) from the channel for some reason. Not all have been watching it.
What's the point if you do not show the end result?
Hi George, Check the next video, #17 th-cam.com/video/8HmfthswIw4/w-d-xo.html where thw poured bearings get bored and fitted to the crankshaft. Thanks for watching......Dave
Круто.Украина смотрит Вас.
Dross looks yummy comin outa that scalding hot wok 😯
my grandpa has a Altas 3950 lathe that he passed on to me.
Good for you, I will be restoring an Atlas this winter, If I can get the bench done.....Dave
Is it possible to get yourself an old surface grinder? Did they have such a machine back then Dave??
tictoc tictoc, steam powered clock.
DUH 😅