SIG KE-9/M29A Prototype Rifles
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- / forgottenweapons
The SIG KE-9 and M29A were several in a series of developmental rifles made by SIG in Switzerland and designed by Pal Kiraly. These ultimately found no commercial or military sales, although the related KE-7 light machine gun did have some limited success.
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These videos are going to be super useful for the future. It's like documenting and archiving history. These videos could be the first and last video footage of them. I think that's pretty cool.
Can you pass on our thanks to the owner for allowing us to view these rare beauties ?
Hold on. The Swiss considered that rifle family overly complicated. Yikes!
Thank you for this and thanks to the collector also! Highly respectful and appreciated to allow these weapons to be documented to this degree
What an absolute jewel of engineering.
My family is from the Dominican Republic, no one I know has one of the rifles or knows anyone with one of the rifles. They did make a good amount so I'm surprised how rare they are in that small country. I read the US testing reports and apparently it was a good rifle, some parts of South America got some of the rifles but still they make over 100k so I can't understand why they are rare.
Awesome video, the stuff you produce is definitely some of the best out there! I started following your channel when you had something like 2500 subscribers a long time ago, glad to see you hit the 200'000!
Congrats on the 200k subscriber mark. Keep up the fantastic content!
+Nevin Zavell and I am glad I have been one for awhile, just great stuff!
Man....
I kinda wish there were some videos showing the M29A rifle firing. It would also be nice to see some slow mo videos as well, if only to see the action functioning. =3
Aside from the complexity of making it, it seems like that bolt could smack you in the face when you shoot it
+quarktron The charging handle assembly doesn't move when you shoot - the bolt cycles underneath/inside it.
Oh,OK. Thanks for the clarification on that.
I was amazed at what the cost of a k31 would cost to produce today, and the price you can get one for is world's apart. I find it interesting that people do not understand the value monetarily and mechanically. the engineering and machine work is amazing pristine craftsmanship. I have a 1901 Swedish Mauser that is beautiful the metal surfaces are like glass smooth perfectly fitted and still 115 years later flawless! how can you not just be taken back by the quality and beauty of the entire rifle. this feeling can be applied to every firearm I own, even the ugliest firearms hold a mechanical beauty and an important place in the development of future firearms. sorry I am just fascinated by the process and product i do not understand how people can not appreciate the history engineering and craftsmanship? thanks again
As much as this gun may have been overly expensive to manufacture, I love it. I want one.
Been watching you videos for while now, and enjoy learning about weapon history . You do a great job👍.
Just seeing you open the bolt made think of how complex it had to be.
Love your vids, Ian, but I really miss your old intro. Brought back fond memories of watching videos from the late 70's and 80's in science classes in middle school in the mid 90's.
Colonel Mondragon had already shown them in the 1890's how to make a self-loading rifle, but they just wouldn't listen.
Hungarian words/names never sound like they're spelled. If you're curious how to pronounce foreign words/names an easy way to get a pretty accurate pronunciation is to throw the name into google translate with the original language selected and click on the "listen" button.
In this case: translate.google.com/#en/hu/Kiraly
It looks like the KE-9 also had the those rear sight things, but had them ground off.
great video very true statement below on the archives of firearm history these maybe the last examinations and explanations given ever with the firearms being present during the breakdown very excellent indeed thank you
love your videos !
Thanks again Ian. Any thoughts about the grind marks on the rear of the KE-9? Same area as the lugs on the M29A.
Ooohhh look at those trigger guards. Nice.
Those actions look like a Swiss army knife! LOL
Is the owner a dedicated SIG collector? It seems you have filmed a bunch of these in the same place.
+ilzen ver'khaan Not specifically dedicated to SIG, but he had the opportunity to buy a bunch of guns when they auctioned off their museum duplicates, and he took advantage of it.
they certainly didn't seem to economize manufacturing in general on this rifle, but that bolt (specifically the slots you mention) looks like a fairly straightforward affair those slots could be essentially two operations on a vertical mill and rotary table. It would surely add up with production volume but I've certainly seen much worse on production parts.
It's interesting watching your videos on half speed.
thank you so much for the upload. Very cool long arms
could we maybe see a clip of them being fired??
Are you at a SIG Museum with all these interesting SIG prototypes, or something? This is the umpteenzillionth SIG prototype video of awesome.
+TheCoyote808 No, these are in a private collection. The SIG museum auctioned off a bunch of its duplicates years ago, and that's where these came from.
Forgotten Weapons
Very nice. It's always amazing to see the progression of R&D for just about any particular item.
Could you get your hands on a G-11 or some caseless ammo prototype?
So, I found on my dad's attic this kar 98 mod 1922 made by FN. I tried to find information about it but I couldn't find anything about kars made by FN so I came to aks you guys. Btw the gun had the brazilian army coat of arms on it (yes I'm brazilian, sorry for any grammar mistakes)
+whatthereq just a wild guess... probably a small contract rifle sold to brazil (didnt you guys have a revolution?? sorry if im wrong) or it was imported.
also... it seems that FN did not make kar 98/ mauser style guns in 1922... but they made some post war guns (and possibly forced production when the nazis took over)
i really dont think your guns was made in 1922
or
it wasnt made by FN.
look at a website like 7.62x54r.net.... you need to find the kar89 equivalent. just because it says "1922" on it does not mean it was made anywhere NEAR 1922.
try to find a marking guide...google "kar 98 markings"
google "how to date my mauser"
it will get you started.
ive got a 1945 (post war) czech mouser thats biased on the kregsmodel and has a winter trigger.... she is an odd one!
Perhaps you could upload a video going over the rifle and showing the markings so that it's easier to see what they are.
Count the serial numbers and learn your guns with my magic pet Morphle!
Learn colors too! There's brown, and black, and brown.
E is for ENFIELD! YAY!
Frommer. Hungarian pistol designer.
+Diktator Alexander G is for Glock, H is for Hotchkiss, I is for Ithaca, J is for .... uhhh...
+Bogdan Vasile
J is for... John Browning?
Shieeet, that's kind of a stretch isn't it.
With as far back as the bolt carrier goes, shooter's cheek weld would be pretty far back.
+STB 1971 The charging handle assembly doesn't reciprocate when shooting.
Could the next video be the artillery luger?
love your vids. i am curious though, are you located in Maine or the southwest? your shooting vids look like you are in a desert area.
+Gunman1628 I am everywhere! :)
You guys make me like weapons :)
the bolt reminds of an SKS bolt frankly.
They have nothing in common.
Why do we see so many recoil-operated rifles in the early days, and almost none now? Is it simply the result of cost and complexity?
I would guess due to fixed barrel rifles being more accurate in general. Fixed barrel pistols are often mentioned as being more inherently accurate due to fewer moving parts and I would assume the same applies to rifles as well.
And the complexity probably also factors in as you want a gun that can easily be taken down to clean or be repaired in the field.
+Max Archer
Also, bayonet mounting, since most early autoloaders were for military use... Weight of a bayonet would change recoil operation. Movable barrel would be an unwanted shock-absorber when you were trying to drive the pointy-end into the other guy.
+Max Archer
A recoiling rifle barrel will have to move in a tightly fitting guide so it could deliver a reasonable degree of accuracy, and this raises the issue of sensitivity to dust and dirt (this isn't the case with machine guns which are not required to be accurate). Also a fixed barrel acts as a structural element, allowing other components to be strapped to it, while in a recoil operated rifle the frame would have to provide structural integrity, which will make it inherently heavier. One on top of the other, recoil operation is not a good idea for standard issue military rifles.
+Max Archer From what I understand, a lot of recoil operated rifles, such as HK roller locking series and the FAMAS lever delayed action, extract under high pressures, meaning they are tough on brass and can be a little less forgiving to variations in ammo loadings. The bearing surfaces that provide the mechanical delay are also very critical, and have to be precisely machined and maintained over time to ensure proper extraction timing. A gas operated locking action just seems a bit more forgiving, especially in a mass produced, mass issued infantry rifle.
Yup, it's Swiss.
7:05
As a machinist... Ouch.
congrats on 200000 subs
Besides being Rube Goldberg design, how reliable were they?
does the cocking handle assembly move during the cycling action? I believe it does not. Just curious.
+πr8ofdintrwebz No, it does not.
+πr8ofdintrwebz thankfully, since I doubt you'd have much face left if it did haha
I hope the proud owner of these fine pieces will at least run a box of ammo thru each of them . Collecting is great but not as exciting as testing rare and unique designs . When they are of such high quality as these .
please do the Abyssinian 1930s pistol.
the hungarian surname is pronounced ki [ as in spaski] and the ending is pronounced as in rye. ki~rye.
Compared to a Mauser rifle bolt, that bolt looks terribly fragile.
The lock ist easy ... is simelar to the simonov ... only the lock goes upwart...
HOW DO YOU KNOW SO MUCH
Kiraly is pronounced ( KI--RYE)
Okay so this KE-9 is a short recoil.. But the sight is recoiling alongside the barrel assembly..Wouldn't that like totally messed up your sight picture and target acquisition? Seems like a rather failing feature of a semi-auto rifle.
+clothar23 The recoil travel is so short and quick that you don't notice it.
In the name Pál Király the last sound of Király is a J as jn the word yogurt. I know that hungarian is hard.
+Roland Szaniszló J as in yogurt? Huh?
Well in hungarian there are j and ly, and both are representing a sound like the first one in word yogurt. That's what I ment. I hope I wrote it more understandably this time.
+Forgotten Weapons
Djogurth
Rube Goldberg would be proud
Everyone makes fun of the Germans for overengineerimg everything (and rightfully so), but the Swiss were far worse about it.
That's a shockingly lousy design from SIG! I can't believe that SIG ever made something that bad. You always think of indestructible and never failing when you think of SIG!
+BushmasterXM15E2S That's probably why there were only ever a couple dozen of this type of design ever made, but in the first few decades of the twentieth century semi-auto/self-loading rifles were relatively new and all sort of action types were tried, at least on experimental weapons.
Awesome video, the stuff you produce is definitely some of the best out there! I started following your channel when you had something like 2500 subscribers a long time ago, glad to see you hit the 200'000!