This is the only video on youtube where I've ever seen a carbon wheel made correctly. You even have good surface finish prior to post processing, which actually saves more weight than people would initially believe.
I had cause to contact this company once and received really good customer service, absolutely top drawer, by people who really do a good job. Such a rarity, only ever matched by Cervelo and Specialized. I've 30 years of cycling experience.
I was expecting another set of overpriced rims, but the price is actually really good! On CRC I can grab them for almost the same price as on AliExpress without paying premium for brand, "warranty" or marketing bs. Good 👍
It's been 5 years that I have been using a pair of Bracciano A42. They are Bombproof.. Never needed a true even with all the beating they go thru on the bad roads in India.. Also to mention, they are FAST AF..
Thank you for sharing Sunny. India's weather is also quite challenging for carbon wheels as they can easily pick up heat and have a tough time to dissipate it. Credit to you as well for taking good care of them.
Nipples stored in artisan grade extra virgin first press olive oil with a side of fava beans served with a fine Chianti? Not sure that would pass UCI testing.
Traditional rim brakes have forced wheel makers to make wheels a specific way to accommodate them. With the advent and superiority of disc brakes on road, XC and MTB, wheel makers can have more room to experiment for lighter and better performing wheels.
Sure. Sort of. Do you want something built quickly or built well? Or more specifically, do you want a wheel, which, if it fails, might collapse underneath you while you're traveling at speeds upwards of 70 or 80km/h, possibly in a large scale race where hundreds of other people are riding in a pack with some just inches away from you? Oh, but it was built quickly and cost a little bit less money... That's poor consolation. If you want something built on a machine, buy Chinese. If you want something built well, you can't go wrong with something built 100% by hand.
A good and informative video. Why arent ProLite wheels regarded in the same way as the other big brands, or mentioned as often? Are any Pro Teams using them? Im looking for some new carbon wheels and this has now sparked my interest, but because I havent seen or heard much about your R&D I am unsure. Might jump on Wiggle and have a look.
We've always been happy being a smaller brand. Our product speaks for itself and our growth over the years has been largely through word of mouth. Marketing is highly commercialized these days and you usually get what you pay for. We have been pleased to see a number of reviews happen organically over the years, but we try not to push too hard on mass media. We don't have any Pro Teams using our wheels because we don't sponsor pro riders. There are many reasons for this that we won't get into. Instead, we just focus on our wheels. Now and then, you will find riders doing amazing things on PL wheels. We had a rider using our wheels who was multiple times world champion triathlete with Team GB. She had cancer this past year though and I believe she has retired from racing now. Her performance doesn't change much for you though. You will find them to be excellent wheels, regardless of your level and personal abilities.
Hello team.i would like to learn more about making wheels for bike.i want to manufacture like the same in denmark.apprecaite any advise on machinery and also study.thnx
I think it would likely be very expensive to manufacture in Denmark. Much of the equipment we have in our factory, especially in the forming area is very expensive. Raw materials like pre-preg carbon fiber in rolls come in refrigerated storage units from Japan. We use a walk-in refrigerator and a couple of modular fridges to store carbon rolls at various different parts of our manufacturing facilities. If you're going to try to manufacture as a one person operation, you might find the costs to be difficult to bear. Many of the machines are fairly easy to find both new and second hand here in Taiwan. If you are thinking about just doing wheel building, this would be a lot more practical and there are many fine wheelbuilders throughout Europe cultivating the art. Drop us a line through our website if you'd like to learn more.
Sorry I missed this comment, but thank you for that. When I was filming this, it was impossible not to see the smiles of the workers and I thought it was a nice thing to share. The ladies who put the spokes into the hubs were a particular delight to film and one of them kept laughing as she was shy and we didn't use much of her as a result, but it was nice to see people having such a nice time at work. You can probably see in some of the shot angles that I've shot around some of the work stations because these are factory workers and some were not too comfortable in front of the camera, as is fairly common in Asia. Overall, I saw a great work ethic by the workers and a warm and jovial atmosphere in the factory. Even though I felt it was quite warm for my Canadian blood, the workers were actually quite happy. Many of them had been building wheels with our factory for more than a decade and I've been back quite a few times over the past several years since I shot this video and continue to see the same smiling faces. It's easy to be proud of working in a factory where the workers are happy and I am glad that this was able to come through in the final video for the viewers. Look at the eyes of the workers. The eyes don't lie. I've been in quite a few factories here in Asia and in many of them, the lights might be brighter and the paint a little whiter, but the atmosphere can be cold and tense. Filming this was a rewarding experience for me and them both.
Hi Andrew. I am not sure what you mean about "hundreds of times". The video describes this process as a minimum of *6 times* to check and re-bed the wheel. This is what actually happens. When the wheels are completed, they are put on a rack and usually sit on the rack for a day or so (maybe as little as half a day if there's a rush) before getting run through the Mitutoyo digital tension gauge checker. I have personally been to the factory quite a number of times and I've never seen them doing anything different from this basic process. This "6 times" does not include the initial bed-in between the tightening station and the final tensioning station. You see this step happens between the station shown at 3:48 and the next station at 3:52. I have done videos where I have followed a wheel through the entire production process on quite a few occasions now. Nothing is done differently when I am there with my cameras - largely because they can't afford the time to do something differently. I only go down there when there are orders in process. I set up my camera for one station at a time and the other stations are still working at normal production pace. They can put out a couple hundred wheels in half a day and I just move from station to station without interrupting them. Bedding-in is an important step in producing a wheel that doesn't need to be re-trued after a short time and remains true and strong. You would be surprised how bad it is for the longevity of a wheel to be ridden for any length of time when it is not well-trued. Many, many wheels are sold, installed on bikes and ridden around, without noticing that the wheels went out of true in the first week of riding them. If you have more questions, I'm happy to answer them for you.
Thank you very much for your considered response; and sorry for my ignorant message. What i meant was, does every wheel go through the hundreds of brake tests, or is that a part of wheel development as a whole ? I just thought it would be very time intensive to do this for every wheel so I was skeptical. I never suspected so much hands on labour was put into making a wheel. I always thought they would be made more so by machines. So thank you for the interesting video. Are there still UK stockists of the Bracciano C50T ? thank you
No worries, a little skepticism is healthy. You are correct. Brake testing is part of the R&D process. During R&D, things such as layup (arrangement of pieces and types of fibers for each) are tested as well as any potential special compounds used (most companies have moved to second or third generation high temperature resin formulations for heat resistance by now). Brake testing of this intensity is done during only on the R&D samples and those are not sold. In fact, most of those are tested destructively, because brake testing means little unless you take the wheel to destructive failure and get an actual number there. We do some random testing on production models, but brake testing isn't part of that. We only test wheels to the point where they cannot be damaged by the testing itself. Bedding in places a certain amount of stress on the wheels, but this actually leads to a stronger wheel off the line. The purpose of the run testing is to check that the wheels are well bedded and well built on the production line. Run testing can be done without harming the wheel, but brake testing is done for "individual models" and rim specs are tested heavily with rims that never go to customers. The Bracciano C50T is around in various places, but send an email down to info@ and our sales people can have a look for you.
Hi Patrik, no I'm afraid we don't, but kudos for getting involved and learning the fine art of wheelbuilding. There's nothing like the confidence you get from riding a pair of wheels you have worked on yourself. Our wheels are actually well regarded among mechanics because they understand the value of a hand built wheel.
Hi, what preassure is used on the hydraulic press? I am curious to know! Sometimes i lacing my wheels and do this stress settle by pushing the wheel on the ground with my whole body weight, but is slow and annoying. Thanks :-)
We use silicon pressure tubes Stefan. They can take a higher pressure without rupturing and they offer the best compaction to eliminate as much of the resin as possible.
The tube looks like a big one! Is the tube after the process removed or remains the tube in the wheel? What diamter has the tube respectivle what is the wall thickness?
I'm afraid I can't give too many details there. Most companies do not have the facilities for this type of forming. The tubes are removed after manufacturing though. The tube expands to fill the entire cavity during formation due to pressure expansion. One thing that we often notice at trade shows as we look around at other brands wheels is that the side walls of most rims are very flexible compared to our own rims. Another interesting thing is that when we had our rims sent to Sirris for UCI testing (before the current relaxed testing standards which allow SGS labs to do the testing as well), they commented to us that they had never seen a rim withstand the impact testing so well. Typically, the impact testing takes a weighted cart and rams the rim at a 90 degree angle impact point. This collapses the rim and they check to see how many spokes are displaced and if any spokes are dislodged in such a way as to become dangerous. For our rims, the damage was minimal and localized to the outer edge of the rim - nowhere near the spokes.
The bags aren't silicon, but "silicone". Decals are pronounced "dee" cals not "de" culs. Lots of work to make a carbon wheel. No wonder they are so expensive.
Good point Norman. Always good to have a bit of a check. Silicon is the element. Silicone is the compound product. Vernacular allows for some flexibility there. While they are different things, silicone does contain silicon, which encourages overlap. This is not dissimilar to the usage of the word aluminum. Aluminum is nowhere near pure aluminum. It's an alloy which contains aluminum. Titanium too. Hence we also refer to "silicon gel", which is a gel characterized primarily by its silicon content. As to Decals, "deecals" or "décals", it depends on where you are. The "deecals" is an anglicized pronunciation which is common in England and the US. "décals" however is more common in Canada, where French is a secondary language. This is probably related to the root of the word being from French originally, as "décalquer". You can find more information on this in any substantial online dictionary. Both of the people working on this version of the video are Canadian.
Are you serious? I find that hard to believe. After so much effort to reduce the weight. I guess it does make sense that it would bind to the epoxy making it impossible to extract.
There are a variety of methods used to extract the bladders depending on the type of wheel. We use heavier silicon bladders that are definitely not left inside. Other brands use very thin poly bags, which are often left inside and can be seen sometimes in crash footage, but our wheels have the air bladders removed.
Some of the wheels can be used for Tandem, but we don't have tandem hub widths available for our Pro-Lite wheels. Spoke count is a major factor for high load wheels and most of our wheels are not designed to handle 2 riders. Since we are actually a real manufacturer, we also have experience using tandem type hubs, however, not under the Pro-Lite brand. The Rome and Padova have been used on tandems in track racing, but that's specific to tandem bikes designed to allow conventional track width hubs.
Send us an email and we can talk about specs more carefully. I saw your comments on Disqus, but I think my response might have gotten lost in your spam box.
Thanks for the heads up. Canadian pronunciation is based on the French origin of the word "from French décalcomanie , from décalquer" (dictionary etymology) and allows for both "deecal" and "décal" pronunciation choices in common parlance.
Canadian pronunciation for decals. Canada is En-Fr and some people favor the original accent for the word origin of décalquer. We still keep original pronunciation for many English words of French origin. Of course, this may be déjà vu if you look at some of the other comments...
Our primary global vendor is Wiggle. You can also contact us directly through our website if you would like to purchase in Korea. We have a wide array of products available between the two channels.
Some Canadians use the pronunciation from the older French origin of the word and some of the people here in the office are proudly Canadian. The Merriam-Webster dictionary makes note of this regional variant. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decal
In our office, we are proud to have staff from many countries. Some of us are indeed Canadian. See Merriam-Webster's note on Canadian pronunciation: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decal
We have quite a following in certain areas for fixed gear bikes. Taiwan and Japan both have active fixie scenes and we have done wheels for them. To be frank though, very few fixie riders use carbon rims, largely because of the aesthetic, which tends to by stylized with a lot of color coordination and some home grown artwork. We have done 30mm alloy, 42mm alloy and I believe a small number of carbon rim versions, but not many for fixed gear specifically. Fixies typically use 28H (or occasionally 32H) and a track hub. There's not much point in building a deep profile, ultra-light rim for a fixie with a bunch of heavy spokes and designed to be nimble at moderate speeds around town and through traffic. Also, track riders tend to use tubular tires, which isn't common among fixed gear riders. However, if you're looking for the strongest wheel you can find, there's an old video kicking around of the boss jumping up and down on one of our disc wheels, laying down on a couple of cinder blocks...
Some Canadians use the pronunciation from the older French origin of the word and some of the people here in the office are proudly Canadian. The Merriam-Webster dictionary makes note of this regional variant. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decal
There's certainly something to be said for their production quality. However, if you look closely, you will find some "interesting" details. I suggest you look into the curious case of their Grade 2 balls, which they were selling for about 7 years at $1000 a pack, which is an item that has never been made commercially available from any bearing manufacturer anywhere in the world. Caveat Emptor. If you would like to know more about how our wheels are made, feel free to drop us a line at info@pro-lite.net and we can answer any questions you might have. Please note as well that we do not manufacture our wheels in China, they are made in Taiwan. You might be surprised to find out how much of a difference there is between the two.
I like the fact zipp wheels are made in USA. CNC machines cut carbon, that to me means cuts are same/perfect. Also aerodynamic are key factor why would u buy carbon wheel, how do they design/develop them? At least they are not afraid to put their own name on them.
I like that too. We are big fans of companies who make their own product. They also have some good tests that they do. I'm not personally convinced that there's any practical difference between digital plotters cutting the pieces vs hand cut. We have a digital cutter here as well, but given that carbon fiber is pretty hard on cutter blades, it's actually a lot less practical than it looks and it's often better to have a person making the cuts rather than a computer, which has no way to determine if the cuts are happening correctly. A laser cutter would work too, but the epoxy is a special type, thermally activated, rather than a 2-part. I'm not sure how it would be affected by a laser cutter as opposed to a metal blade. Would it make it harder for the edges to bond together under pressure if the edges are already cauterized before they are even laid in? Perhaps the end effect is that you'd have a series of many hard seams across the circumference of the rim, instead of the more contiguous effect of allowing the resin of each segment to flow into the next and create a solid resin piece. Would it make any difference at all, given that the primary mode of contact is surface to surface, not edge to edge. I've never seen evidence of problems with cut edges myself and I have looked at these wheels through macro lenses and attended while they examine the internal edges through use of an ultrasound machine which measures the thickness *very* accurately. It's a fabric that is wrapped around a 3D round object, then pressed and molded into place. The internal edges are always going to rely on the "give" of the fabric. You set it up in the layout and it moves itself mostly into place during forming. Once it heats up, everything shifts and moves into place with uniform pressure from the air bladder inside. Ultimately, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. When we sent our wheels in for UCI testing at Sirris labs to see if there were dangerous fragments ejected after a catastrophic crash, the testing staff were surprised that they couldn't even get the rims to break enough to reach the spoke area. Test report here: tiny.cc/PL-Vicenza-UCI Most wheels of that spec (50mm) crumple pretty hard. You can find your own 3rd party verifications on that by google. Please don't take my word for it. I'm not so sure that you will be so concerned about the difference between a hand cut segment of carbon vs a digital plotter cut after comparing the results yourself. On the other hand, I'd encourage you to look closer at the bearing issue mentioned above. If you still feel they are a credible source and not just a marketing specialist who also makes wheels, you are entitled to that opinion. CeramicSpeed (the manufacturer that Zipp currently uses) thought it was a joke when I asked them about the Grade 2 balls that Zipp still claims they have used - and charged customers a thousand bucks a pop for. There's a lot to like about Zipp and I had actually quite a good conversation with the staff at Zipp when I was doing my own checking into that, but in the end, we did come to the conclusion that the information presented is not accurate. And yet it remains on their site to this day. Make your own conclusions about that. Putting a name on something is very different from transparently showing how things are made. Our goal is to be a low-marketing company which relies on quality product at a reasonable price.
ProLiteNews That was very educational, thank you for your response. So I actually went on your website, since I’m on a market for carbon clincher wheels. But there is no pricing, where can u buy them in US? There is Rob Muzio link/face book place, I don’t have a Facebook nor ever will. Where can u buy them other than face book? I trust Zipp because, I have their wheels and they have been very durable. However that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be open to try alternatives, but at 220lbs durability is a must. Regards!
Drop me a line through the contact form on the website (pro-lite.net/contact/contact) and I'll put you in contact with Rob directly. Or if you're not in the UK, I might have another option for you. I appreciate your open mind. Good discussion.
A lack of understanding in the bicycle industry might lead you to the conclusion that wheels made in Taiwan are the same as wheels made in China. There are good reasons why people who have experience with these things do not consider them to be the same at all.
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These are the best wills i have ever purchased in 30 years of cycling
Glad you like them.
Really impressed with my Pro lite wheels. Can't recommend them enough.
Arron Harris
This is the only video on youtube where I've ever seen a carbon wheel made correctly. You even have good surface finish prior to post processing, which actually saves more weight than people would initially believe.
Thanks. We think they are pretty good too.
I had cause to contact this company once and received really good customer service, absolutely top drawer, by people who really do a good job. Such a rarity, only ever matched by Cervelo and Specialized. I've 30 years of cycling experience.
Thanks K C.
We try to keep our ear to the ground and help our customers as much as we can.
Can't get full profit with my weight (110kg), so will wait till being 90 kg or carbon rims get stronger :) Video and job doing is awesome!
I love my pro-lite wheels. I am really thinking of buying a 2nd pair.
I was expecting another set of overpriced rims, but the price is actually really good! On CRC I can grab them for almost the same price as on AliExpress without paying premium for brand, "warranty" or marketing bs. Good 👍
It's been 5 years that I have been using a pair of Bracciano A42. They are Bombproof.. Never needed a true even with all the beating they go thru on the bad roads in India.. Also to mention, they are FAST AF..
Thank you for sharing Sunny. India's weather is also quite challenging for carbon wheels as they can easily pick up heat and have a tough time to dissipate it. Credit to you as well for taking good care of them.
3:35 "Nipples are stored in heavy oil"
Sounds like a line from the next Hannibal Lecter film...
Nipples stored in artisan grade extra virgin first press olive oil with a side of fava beans served with a fine Chianti?
Not sure that would pass UCI testing.
Traditional rim brakes have forced wheel makers to make wheels a specific way to accommodate them. With the advent and superiority of disc brakes on road, XC and MTB, wheel makers can have more room to experiment for lighter and better performing wheels.
Handmade stuff is luxurious. Can't they use machines for faster production?
Sure. Sort of. Do you want something built quickly or built well?
Or more specifically, do you want a wheel, which, if it fails, might collapse underneath you while you're traveling at speeds upwards of 70 or 80km/h, possibly in a large scale race where hundreds of other people are riding in a pack with some just inches away from you?
Oh, but it was built quickly and cost a little bit less money...
That's poor consolation.
If you want something built on a machine, buy Chinese. If you want something built well, you can't go wrong with something built 100% by hand.
A good and informative video. Why arent ProLite wheels regarded in the same way as the other big brands, or mentioned as often? Are any Pro Teams using them? Im looking for some new carbon wheels and this has now sparked my interest, but because I havent seen or heard much about your R&D I am unsure.
Might jump on Wiggle and have a look.
We've always been happy being a smaller brand. Our product speaks for itself and our growth over the years has been largely through word of mouth.
Marketing is highly commercialized these days and you usually get what you pay for. We have been pleased to see a number of reviews happen organically over the years, but we try not to push too hard on mass media.
We don't have any Pro Teams using our wheels because we don't sponsor pro riders. There are many reasons for this that we won't get into.
Instead, we just focus on our wheels.
Now and then, you will find riders doing amazing things on PL wheels. We had a rider using our wheels who was multiple times world champion triathlete with Team GB. She had cancer this past year though and I believe she has retired from racing now.
Her performance doesn't change much for you though. You will find them to be excellent wheels, regardless of your level and personal abilities.
Interesting and informative
Hello team.i would like to learn more about making wheels for bike.i want to manufacture like the same in denmark.apprecaite any advise on machinery and also study.thnx
I think it would likely be very expensive to manufacture in Denmark. Much of the equipment we have in our factory, especially in the forming area is very expensive. Raw materials like pre-preg carbon fiber in rolls come in refrigerated storage units from Japan. We use a walk-in refrigerator and a couple of modular fridges to store carbon rolls at various different parts of our manufacturing facilities.
If you're going to try to manufacture as a one person operation, you might find the costs to be difficult to bear. Many of the machines are fairly easy to find both new and second hand here in Taiwan.
If you are thinking about just doing wheel building, this would be a lot more practical and there are many fine wheelbuilders throughout Europe cultivating the art.
Drop us a line through our website if you'd like to learn more.
I feel they are enjoying their work.
Sorry I missed this comment, but thank you for that.
When I was filming this, it was impossible not to see the smiles of the workers and I thought it was a nice thing to share.
The ladies who put the spokes into the hubs were a particular delight to film and one of them kept laughing as she was shy and we didn't use much of her as a result, but it was nice to see people having such a nice time at work. You can probably see in some of the shot angles that I've shot around some of the work stations because these are factory workers and some were not too comfortable in front of the camera, as is fairly common in Asia. Overall, I saw a great work ethic by the workers and a warm and jovial atmosphere in the factory. Even though I felt it was quite warm for my Canadian blood, the workers were actually quite happy. Many of them had been building wheels with our factory for more than a decade and I've been back quite a few times over the past several years since I shot this video and continue to see the same smiling faces. It's easy to be proud of working in a factory where the workers are happy and I am glad that this was able to come through in the final video for the viewers. Look at the eyes of the workers. The eyes don't lie.
I've been in quite a few factories here in Asia and in many of them, the lights might be brighter and the paint a little whiter, but the atmosphere can be cold and tense. Filming this was a rewarding experience for me and them both.
like they do this for every wheel. Lots of "hundreds" of times here.....
Hi Andrew. I am not sure what you mean about "hundreds of times". The video describes this process as a minimum of *6 times* to check and re-bed the wheel. This is what actually happens. When the wheels are completed, they are put on a rack and usually sit on the rack for a day or so (maybe as little as half a day if there's a rush) before getting run through the Mitutoyo digital tension gauge checker.
I have personally been to the factory quite a number of times and I've never seen them doing anything different from this basic process. This "6 times" does not include the initial bed-in between the tightening station and the final tensioning station. You see this step happens between the station shown at 3:48 and the next station at 3:52.
I have done videos where I have followed a wheel through the entire production process on quite a few occasions now. Nothing is done differently when I am there with my cameras - largely because they can't afford the time to do something differently. I only go down there when there are orders in process. I set up my camera for one station at a time and the other stations are still working at normal production pace. They can put out a couple hundred wheels in half a day and I just move from station to station without interrupting them.
Bedding-in is an important step in producing a wheel that doesn't need to be re-trued after a short time and remains true and strong. You would be surprised how bad it is for the longevity of a wheel to be ridden for any length of time when it is not well-trued. Many, many wheels are sold, installed on bikes and ridden around, without noticing that the wheels went out of true in the first week of riding them.
If you have more questions, I'm happy to answer them for you.
Thank you very much for your considered response; and sorry for my ignorant message. What i meant was, does every wheel go through the hundreds of brake tests, or is that a part of wheel development as a whole ? I just thought it would be very time intensive to do this for every wheel so I was skeptical.
I never suspected so much hands on labour was put into making a wheel. I always thought they would be made more so by machines. So thank you for the interesting video.
Are there still UK stockists of the Bracciano C50T ?
thank you
No worries, a little skepticism is healthy.
You are correct. Brake testing is part of the R&D process. During R&D, things such as layup (arrangement of pieces and types of fibers for each) are tested as well as any potential special compounds used (most companies have moved to second or third generation high temperature resin formulations for heat resistance by now).
Brake testing of this intensity is done during only on the R&D samples and those are not sold. In fact, most of those are tested destructively, because brake testing means little unless you take the wheel to destructive failure and get an actual number there.
We do some random testing on production models, but brake testing isn't part of that. We only test wheels to the point where they cannot be damaged by the testing itself. Bedding in places a certain amount of stress on the wheels, but this actually leads to a stronger wheel off the line.
The purpose of the run testing is to check that the wheels are well bedded and well built on the production line. Run testing can be done without harming the wheel, but brake testing is done for "individual models" and rim specs are tested heavily with rims that never go to customers.
The Bracciano C50T is around in various places, but send an email down to info@ and our sales people can have a look for you.
I like to lace my own wheels. Do You sell rims only direct to consumer?
Hi Patrik, no I'm afraid we don't, but kudos for getting involved and learning the fine art of wheelbuilding. There's nothing like the confidence you get from riding a pair of wheels you have worked on yourself. Our wheels are actually well regarded among mechanics because they understand the value of a hand built wheel.
Hi, what preassure is used on the hydraulic press? I am curious to know! Sometimes i lacing my wheels and do this stress settle by pushing the wheel on the ground with my whole body weight, but is slow and annoying. Thanks :-)
What kind of pressure tube is that? Looks like a plastic tube?
We use silicon pressure tubes Stefan. They can take a higher pressure without rupturing and they offer the best compaction to eliminate as much of the resin as possible.
The tube looks like a big one! Is the tube after the process removed or remains the tube in the wheel? What diamter has the tube respectivle what is the wall thickness?
I'm afraid I can't give too many details there. Most companies do not have the facilities for this type of forming. The tubes are removed after manufacturing though. The tube expands to fill the entire cavity during formation due to pressure expansion. One thing that we often notice at trade shows as we look around at other brands wheels is that the side walls of most rims are very flexible compared to our own rims.
Another interesting thing is that when we had our rims sent to Sirris for UCI testing (before the current relaxed testing standards which allow SGS labs to do the testing as well), they commented to us that they had never seen a rim withstand the impact testing so well.
Typically, the impact testing takes a weighted cart and rams the rim at a 90 degree angle impact point. This collapses the rim and they check to see how many spokes are displaced and if any spokes are dislodged in such a way as to become dangerous. For our rims, the damage was minimal and localized to the outer edge of the rim - nowhere near the spokes.
The bags aren't silicon, but "silicone". Decals are pronounced "dee" cals not "de" culs. Lots of work to make a carbon wheel. No wonder they are so expensive.
Good point Norman. Always good to have a bit of a check.
Silicon is the element. Silicone is the compound product. Vernacular allows for some flexibility there. While they are different things, silicone does contain silicon, which encourages overlap. This is not dissimilar to the usage of the word aluminum. Aluminum is nowhere near pure aluminum. It's an alloy which contains aluminum. Titanium too. Hence we also refer to "silicon gel", which is a gel characterized primarily by its silicon content.
As to Decals, "deecals" or "décals", it depends on where you are. The "deecals" is an anglicized pronunciation which is common in England and the US. "décals" however is more common in Canada, where French is a secondary language. This is probably related to the root of the word being from French originally, as "décalquer". You can find more information on this in any substantial online dictionary.
Both of the people working on this version of the video are Canadian.
The wheel is molded in one piece... does that mean the bladder has to be extracted through the tube hole?
Chris10B no they remains inside
Are you serious? I find that hard to believe. After so much effort to reduce the weight. I guess it does make sense that it would bind to the epoxy making it impossible to extract.
Chris10B the bladder is sucked out with vacuum
There are a variety of methods used to extract the bladders depending on the type of wheel. We use heavier silicon bladders that are definitely not left inside. Other brands use very thin poly bags, which are often left inside and can be seen sometimes in crash footage, but our wheels have the air bladders removed.
carbon.. nice conten
Thank you.
Well done. Question, are they tandem rated?
Some of the wheels can be used for Tandem, but we don't have tandem hub widths available for our Pro-Lite wheels. Spoke count is a major factor for high load wheels and most of our wheels are not designed to handle 2 riders. Since we are actually a real manufacturer, we also have experience using tandem type hubs, however, not under the Pro-Lite brand.
The Rome and Padova have been used on tandems in track racing, but that's specific to tandem bikes designed to allow conventional track width hubs.
ProLiteNews I use 132mm spacing on my tandem so wheel choice is high.
Send us an email and we can talk about specs more carefully. I saw your comments on Disqus, but I think my response might have gotten lost in your spam box.
So Pro Lite is different with Lite Pro?
Yes. I don't know what Lite Pro is.
@@ProLiteNews lite pro is china's product.
Bro what is a deckal? It's decal (deecal).
Thanks for the heads up. Canadian pronunciation is based on the French origin of the word
"from French décalcomanie , from décalquer" (dictionary etymology) and allows for both "deecal" and "décal" pronunciation choices in common parlance.
Do you have a distributor here in the Philippines?
Do a facebook search for Green Planet. They sell Pro-Lite in the Philippines and you can contact them through their online presence.
very nice!
what are Deckels?
Canadian pronunciation for decals.
Canada is En-Fr and some people favor the original accent for the word origin of décalquer.
We still keep original pronunciation for many English words of French origin. Of course, this may be déjà vu if you look at some of the other comments...
@Cris LeRose Glad I could be of service in téckling your péckle, éh.
;)
so how much does it cost?
Our primary global vendor is Wiggle. You can also contact us directly through our website if you would like to purchase in Korea. We have a wide array of products available between the two channels.
Made in Taiwan FTW!
deckles? WTH? Dee-cals. Decals
Some Canadians use the pronunciation from the older French origin of the word and some of the people here in the office are proudly Canadian. The Merriam-Webster dictionary makes note of this regional variant.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decal
@@ProLiteNews I was just teasing ya! :D Much love for the Canucks!
@@crazy8sdrums Appreciated!
Wish I could build wheels all day
Hmm.Nice .I like 👍👏
mmmmm. deckles.
Delicious!
Must be Canadian...
In our office, we are proud to have staff from many countries. Some of us are indeed Canadian.
See Merriam-Webster's note on Canadian pronunciation:
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decal
Or brisket
I'll show you what that wheelset can do. I'll throw it on a fixed gear.
We have quite a following in certain areas for fixed gear bikes. Taiwan and Japan both have active fixie scenes and we have done wheels for them. To be frank though, very few fixie riders use carbon rims, largely because of the aesthetic, which tends to by stylized with a lot of color coordination and some home grown artwork. We have done 30mm alloy, 42mm alloy and I believe a small number of carbon rim versions, but not many for fixed gear specifically.
Fixies typically use 28H (or occasionally 32H) and a track hub. There's not much point in building a deep profile, ultra-light rim for a fixie with a bunch of heavy spokes and designed to be nimble at moderate speeds around town and through traffic. Also, track riders tend to use tubular tires, which isn't common among fixed gear riders.
However, if you're looking for the strongest wheel you can find, there's an old video kicking around of the boss jumping up and down on one of our disc wheels, laying down on a couple of cinder blocks...
brill
Какой кошмар, их же делают китайцы, вы же боитесь китайских колёс, а н да забыл всё колеса делаются там и рамы тоже
It's pronounced "deecal"
i nyd a nu wills 2.. )
impessive QC
нормас
Since you cannot say decals correctly, I have to stop watching.
Some Canadians use the pronunciation from the older French origin of the word and some of the people here in the office are proudly Canadian. The Merriam-Webster dictionary makes note of this regional variant.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decal
I don´t trust Chinese quality, Zipps for me always.
There's certainly something to be said for their production quality. However, if you look closely, you will find some "interesting" details. I suggest you look into the curious case of their Grade 2 balls, which they were selling for about 7 years at $1000 a pack, which is an item that has never been made commercially available from any bearing manufacturer anywhere in the world.
Caveat Emptor.
If you would like to know more about how our wheels are made, feel free to drop us a line at info@pro-lite.net and we can answer any questions you might have.
Please note as well that we do not manufacture our wheels in China, they are made in Taiwan. You might be surprised to find out how much of a difference there is between the two.
I like the fact zipp wheels are made in USA. CNC machines cut carbon, that to me means cuts are same/perfect. Also aerodynamic are key factor why would u buy carbon wheel, how do they design/develop them? At least they are not afraid to put their own name on them.
I like that too. We are big fans of companies who make their own product. They also have some good tests that they do. I'm not personally convinced that there's any practical difference between digital plotters cutting the pieces vs hand cut. We have a digital cutter here as well, but given that carbon fiber is pretty hard on cutter blades, it's actually a lot less practical than it looks and it's often better to have a person making the cuts rather than a computer, which has no way to determine if the cuts are happening correctly. A laser cutter would work too, but the epoxy is a special type, thermally activated, rather than a 2-part. I'm not sure how it would be affected by a laser cutter as opposed to a metal blade. Would it make it harder for the edges to bond together under pressure if the edges are already cauterized before they are even laid in? Perhaps the end effect is that you'd have a series of many hard seams across the circumference of the rim, instead of the more contiguous effect of allowing the resin of each segment to flow into the next and create a solid resin piece. Would it make any difference at all, given that the primary mode of contact is surface to surface, not edge to edge.
I've never seen evidence of problems with cut edges myself and I have looked at these wheels through macro lenses and attended while they examine the internal edges through use of an ultrasound machine which measures the thickness *very* accurately. It's a fabric that is wrapped around a 3D round object, then pressed and molded into place. The internal edges are always going to rely on the "give" of the fabric. You set it up in the layout and it moves itself mostly into place during forming. Once it heats up, everything shifts and moves into place with uniform pressure from the air bladder inside. Ultimately, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
When we sent our wheels in for UCI testing at Sirris labs to see if there were dangerous fragments ejected after a catastrophic crash, the testing staff were surprised that they couldn't even get the rims to break enough to reach the spoke area. Test report here: tiny.cc/PL-Vicenza-UCI
Most wheels of that spec (50mm) crumple pretty hard. You can find your own 3rd party verifications on that by google. Please don't take my word for it. I'm not so sure that you will be so concerned about the difference between a hand cut segment of carbon vs a digital plotter cut after comparing the results yourself.
On the other hand, I'd encourage you to look closer at the bearing issue mentioned above. If you still feel they are a credible source and not just a marketing specialist who also makes wheels, you are entitled to that opinion. CeramicSpeed (the manufacturer that Zipp currently uses) thought it was a joke when I asked them about the Grade 2 balls that Zipp still claims they have used - and charged customers a thousand bucks a pop for. There's a lot to like about Zipp and I had actually quite a good conversation with the staff at Zipp when I was doing my own checking into that, but in the end, we did come to the conclusion that the information presented is not accurate. And yet it remains on their site to this day. Make your own conclusions about that.
Putting a name on something is very different from transparently showing how things are made. Our goal is to be a low-marketing company which relies on quality product at a reasonable price.
ProLiteNews That was very educational, thank you for your response. So I actually went on your website, since I’m on a market for carbon clincher wheels. But there is no pricing, where can u buy them in US? There is Rob Muzio link/face book place, I don’t have a Facebook nor ever will. Where can u buy them other than face book?
I trust Zipp because, I have their wheels and they have been very durable. However that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be open to try alternatives, but at 220lbs durability is a must. Regards!
Drop me a line through the contact form on the website (pro-lite.net/contact/contact) and I'll put you in contact with Rob directly. Or if you're not in the UK, I might have another option for you.
I appreciate your open mind. Good discussion.
Made in China
A lack of understanding in the bicycle industry might lead you to the conclusion that wheels made in Taiwan are the same as wheels made in China.
There are good reasons why people who have experience with these things do not consider them to be the same at all.
Made in China nowadays can be range from junk to world best.
Chinese can produce goods in ANY standards now.