One thing I have learned as a teacher is that everyone learns a differently. I certainly would not take the same approach with everyone but in this video I have to talk in general terms. Jojo Mayer's video is awesome and I may use the same terminology for some students. This video is based off of how I understand playing double stroke rolls to the best of my ability. Hope it works for you too. I would certainly suggest listening to other teachers and then decide what is best for you.
does this turn into a roll once u get to the really quick tempo or is still double stroke? cos i cant get my hands going that quick. I know that i need to work on my weaker hand to
Roxanne Peypascissurs: From open (slow) to closed (fast), the double stroke roll is still two beats per hand. In essence, the double stroke roll does not change when the speed increases.
Awesome video - many years ago my drum teacher didn't differentiate between a controlled stroke and rebound stroke roll and made me feel like an ass for not knowing the difference myself...
There is a harmonic of some kind coming out of the left hand strokes, I've watched this a number of times but it's the first time of noticed it. Any reason for that? Different pitched stick or different part of the snare?? Btw, awsome job Mr. WootOn, cheers :)
FINALLY A GUY WHO TELLS THE TRUTH!! PLAYING ON NON-BOUNCE-ABLE SURFACES IS HOW YOU STRENGTHEN DOUBLES!! BUDDY USED BRUSHES AND COULD PLAY ON ANYTHING. Sucherman = pillows. Dennis Chambers = pillows. JoJo's a freak, lol but could probably wail on pillows too.
Just because Dr.Wooten doesn't demonstrate that doesn't mean that this isn't dubbed "that great great of a video." You have to understand, there's numerous approaches to these rudiments, strokes, technique, and so forth. Set drumming and marching/concert percussion are very much different worlds. JoJo Mayer, one of my very favorite set drummers, is obviously going to present it differently than Dr.Wooten. One isn't better than the other. Both work just fine.
Exactly right. I would suggest to anyone to spend more time getting a slow bounce, rather than using fingers, and darned sure not accenting the secondary beat of your doubles. That way there's not all of that constant changing of gears. This also comes into play with any sticking patterns, paradiddles, etc. There is simply not enough time to "finger" everything and it's not going to sound as good anyway.
Great tips, though the suggestion to play on your lap is good to develop wrist strength, it seems a bit contradictory to then propose a method that just uses rebound strokes. This method will not effectively utilize any practice you have done on surfaces without rebound (where 1 wrist stroke = 1 note). I would still agree that a roll should be consistent in its movement from slow to fast tempos, however using more wrist strokes will definitely give you more power at slower-mid tempos, and will bring out the best tom sound in a live setting.
They are both connected,, playing on non rebound surfaces helps you understand how to better use the rebound on the drums, Tony Royster and Allen Dawson gave similar recommendations for better doubles and they are fast
What fingers are you using to control the stick on the left hand with the traditional grip cuz I'm just now trying to get used to it and it's difficult cuz I learned match grip 26 YEARS AGO.
I know the technique is supposed to be the same at every speed, but I find that at medium tempo my left hand releases the stick on the first stroke and then grabs the stick on the second. As I get faster this becomes impossible and my index finger ends up on the stick permanently. This seems to deaden things somewhat. So my question is: what is the equivalent of finger control in my right hand for my left hand such that it remains consistent through all tempos? Thanks in advance :)
David Rowthorn i get lessons from Dr Wooton. His left hand does the same thing. it's not really a problem unless it changes your sound. the fingers being the thumb and index finger on your left hand are simply mass. they hold the stick down in a controlled stroke (though you have to squeeze just a bit) the same as your hand would hold down the stick in German grip. the finger and thumb also apply all the pressure required at different speeds.
David Rowthorn i get lessons from Dr Wooton. His left hand does the same thing. it's not really a problem unless it changes your sound. the fingers being the thumb and index finger on your left hand are simply mass. they hold the stick down in a controlled stroke (though you have to squeeze just a bit) the same as your hand would hold down the stick in German grip. the finger and thumb also apply all the pressure required at different speeds.
taydolf swiftler I find that playing with only the thumb on the left stick and the index under it makes it easier and gives more motion to the stick instead of holding it down.
question re doubles: some people say its best to use moeller for doubles, big whip(loud) and tap(quieter) on rebound.Other people say the opposite, use bounce and try and make the second note louder for a clean roll.Both methods contradict each other.Which is more effective and practical?
Steve, I don't understand why you would want your rolls sound uneven. The Moeller stroke is used to go from low to high, or tap to accent. This stroke is not used for rolls except for maybe the release. BTW, I call the Moeller stroke the "Common Sense" stroke. Everyone uses it to some extent unless your arm is in a cast.
John Wooton Hey John, Is the ring finger(left hand) used in this roll or is it just te rebound that brings the stick up after the second note? Thanks for your answer. Really like your videos.
Dr. Wooten, you are a fine player and outstanding teacher, however, the way to learn a smooth roll is to BREAK THE WRIST, not to use fingers. You don't use your fingers at tempo yourself. You have to use follow-through, breaking your wrist slightly more than what is required to make contact with the drum. I can play a smooth roll using only my middle finger and ring finger, using no thumb. I am able to do this because of the break of the wrist. The idea is to play THROUGH the drum, not "TO" the drum. The use of snapping of the fingers is good for shuffle beats, but at tempo you don't snap your fingers at all. The key is to make the STICK do the work, break your wrist a slight bit more, and work with the rebound of the stick. I have been playing for over 40 years, and I did the snapping of the fingers thing a LONG time ago, but I realized that this is really not what is happening at all.
Oh hell yea Phone Books duct taped, bicycle seats, spare tires,( btw bass peddle meets on the second stacked tire)...in my padded closet, door closed...uh oh run out of air,,gasp gasp hu hu need vents....must bang on sumpthin other than well deserving people....what ever it takes to get there...but ya never really get there....always room for improvement..cloth covered books are good for drawing out notes....careful tendonitis if you dont get well rounded exercise..avoid obsession
The double stroke roll cannot be practiced slow. There is a minimum tempo where the rebound happens and can be controlled, bellow that it can only be played as controlled strokes. Most self taught drummers, including me, had real trouble developing fast double stroke rolls precisely because we were told to practice slow. When teaching the double stroke, i immediately have them play it fast to show it can be done once you know what you are looking for. Specifically, i have them play a buzzroll and while at it have them slowly raise their arms. The doubles happens as if magic and from that point on they know exactly what to look for.
No, you are incorrect. A double stroke roll CAN be practiced slowly, but you have to use follow through. You should be able to play a double stroke roll cleanly at sixteenth notes at 80 bpm. This is slow, but if you have a good follow through, you can play it just as cleanly as using fingers. If you want to develop a fast double stroke roll, you must practice it slowly, develop the muscles in your hands, wrists and arms, but use less motion, but more efficient motion. I would never advise anyone to begin learning any rudiment at a fast tempo. Buzzrolls for beginners will almost assuredly cause your students to play with tension.
@@tootallforbaseball I agree, and another benefit from starting slow is to warm muscles, ligaments, tendons, while developing the muscles, the same with practicing all instruments, also gives time to focus on quality of the sound of each note
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877 Check this out and open your mind: th-cam.com/video/gIoFgVahXDA/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/10DSn3VeJG0/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/NZK29EquH28/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/P3hiR0fYHv4/w-d-xo.html
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877 No, you don’t “have” to use 2 movements to play a double stroke roll slowly. You have to play through the drum and use a little more wrist break. But let’s face it, a roll that is very slow is really not much of a “roll.” I am like you- I am not a fan of a stiff (what call “bam bam”) grip. Lots of corps guys won’t like that reference. I do like the Coliauta, Weckl, Rich and (hundreds of others) technique. But if you play corps, you would do it like Dr. Wooten.
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877 don't recall trying to impress or prove anything to you or anyone else, certainly don't have a need to post video's of myself. When I have time to record(and when you have kids and work) I'm only interested in recording music. Not sure of the logic that posting videos equates to passion or "caring" about drumming.
why do i need a padded cell to practice..Fkn neighbors dont understand, only drummers understand,,surfaces call out to be struck in odd time signatures...drumming calls you not the other way around...mathmatical art / science that transcends yet incorporates logic which escapes ordinary mortals (poor souls) will they ever develop L / R brain sycnophathic awareness = whole brain function.. we call it the zone needs to be mandatory in school...love ya.. keep seekin at all cost
this isn't that great a video. check out jojo mayer's secret weapons for the modern drummer, where he actually explains how to use your wrist for the first stroke and your fingers to snap the second one back - i had no idea how people did doubles so fast until i saw that video and practiced like mad on it
Christian Carter this is a perfectly good way to practice. the method is simple and effective. carrying on the same technique no matter what tempo argues consistency of sound. the rebound approach allows you to make use of the bounce of the stick. why play without bounce when there's bounce available? the fingers add the extra weight to the second note. since at medium to fast tempos the wrist won't have time to initiate two strokes the fingers add the power from the low height of the rebound. Sturtze mentions the need for an extra snap on the second note in his book the Sturtze drum instructor. it's a fine way to play
One thing I have learned as a teacher is that everyone learns a differently. I certainly would not take the same approach with everyone but in this video I have to talk in general terms. Jojo Mayer's video is awesome and I may use the same terminology for some students. This video is based off of how I understand playing double stroke rolls to the best of my ability. Hope it works for you too. I would certainly suggest listening to other teachers and then decide what is best for you.
does this turn into a roll once u get to the really quick tempo or is still double stroke? cos i cant get my hands going that quick. I know that i need to work on my weaker hand to
Roxanne Peypascissurs roxanne roxanne all she wanna do is party all night
Roxanne Peypascissurs: From open (slow) to closed (fast), the double stroke roll is still two beats per hand. In essence, the double stroke roll does not change when the speed increases.
I'm bookmarking this page,
You're insane! Sick! 🤘👍👍👍
Your rolls are works or att frfr ❤ Beautifully consistent and satisfying.
This is the trivago guy of drumming
Holy crap you’re right 😂
No doubt
Awesome video - many years ago my drum teacher didn't differentiate between a controlled stroke and rebound stroke roll and made me feel like an ass for not knowing the difference myself...
i have a dream, and that dream is to be able to play paradiddles and drum rolls
so, how has it been going?
00741 😂
Marching band sent me here. ;P
I truely love Vic firth sticks
Those 'brush rolls' are the cartoon running sound!
Thought the same thing!
There is a harmonic of some kind coming out of the left hand strokes, I've watched this a number of times but it's the first time of noticed it. Any reason for that? Different pitched stick or different part of the snare?? Btw, awsome job Mr. WootOn, cheers :)
FINALLY A GUY WHO TELLS THE TRUTH!! PLAYING ON NON-BOUNCE-ABLE SURFACES IS HOW YOU STRENGTHEN DOUBLES!! BUDDY USED BRUSHES AND COULD PLAY ON ANYTHING. Sucherman = pillows. Dennis Chambers = pillows. JoJo's a freak, lol but could probably wail on pillows too.
Just because Dr.Wooten doesn't demonstrate that doesn't mean that this isn't dubbed "that great great of a video." You have to understand, there's numerous approaches to these rudiments, strokes, technique, and so forth. Set drumming and marching/concert percussion are very much different worlds. JoJo Mayer, one of my very favorite set drummers, is obviously going to present it differently than Dr.Wooten. One isn't better than the other. Both work just fine.
Excellent, thank you
Exactly right. I would suggest to anyone to spend more time getting a slow bounce, rather than using fingers, and darned sure not accenting the secondary beat of your doubles. That way there's not all of that constant changing of gears. This also comes into play with any sticking patterns, paradiddles, etc. There is simply not enough time to "finger" everything and it's not going to sound as good anyway.
Great tips, though the suggestion to play on your lap is good to develop wrist strength, it seems a bit contradictory to then propose a method that just uses rebound strokes. This method will not effectively utilize any practice you have done on surfaces without rebound (where 1 wrist stroke = 1 note). I would still agree that a roll should be consistent in its movement from slow to fast tempos, however using more wrist strokes will definitely give you more power at slower-mid tempos, and will bring out the best tom sound in a live setting.
They are both connected,, playing on non rebound surfaces helps you understand how to better use the rebound on the drums, Tony Royster and Allen Dawson gave similar recommendations for better doubles and they are fast
Thanks for the vid. Im trying to get ready for a high skool audition
Did you get accepted?
What fingers are you using to control the stick on the left hand with the traditional grip cuz I'm just now trying to get used to it and it's difficult cuz I learned match grip 26 YEARS AGO.
great video!
I know the technique is supposed to be the same at every speed, but I find that at medium tempo my left hand releases the stick on the first stroke and then grabs the stick on the second. As I get faster this becomes impossible and my index finger ends up on the stick permanently. This seems to deaden things somewhat. So my question is: what is the equivalent of finger control in my right hand for my left hand such that it remains consistent through all tempos? Thanks in advance :)
David Rowthorn i get lessons from Dr Wooton. His left hand does the same thing. it's not really a problem unless it changes your sound. the fingers being the thumb and index finger on your left hand are simply mass. they hold the stick down in a controlled stroke (though you have to squeeze just a bit) the same as your hand would hold down the stick in German grip. the finger and thumb also apply all the pressure required at different speeds.
David Rowthorn i get lessons from Dr Wooton. His left hand does the same thing. it's not really a problem unless it changes your sound. the fingers being the thumb and index finger on your left hand are simply mass. they hold the stick down in a controlled stroke (though you have to squeeze just a bit) the same as your hand would hold down the stick in German grip. the finger and thumb also apply all the pressure required at different speeds.
That's good to know, thanks. Guess I'll just carry on trying to refine my current technique
taydolf swiftler I find that playing with only the thumb on the left stick and the index under it makes it easier and gives more motion to the stick instead of holding it down.
I have a test tomorrow on rudiments IF I FAIL ILL BE USING A CHAIR OR MY THIGHS
question re doubles: some people say its best to use moeller for doubles, big whip(loud) and tap(quieter) on rebound.Other people say the opposite, use bounce and try and make the second note louder for a clean roll.Both methods contradict each other.Which is more effective and practical?
Steve, I don't understand why you would want your rolls sound uneven. The Moeller stroke is used to go from low to high, or tap to accent. This stroke is not used for rolls except for maybe the release. BTW, I call the Moeller stroke the "Common Sense" stroke. Everyone uses it to some extent unless your arm is in a cast.
John Wooton Hey John,
Is the ring finger(left hand) used in this roll or is it just te rebound that brings the stick up after the second note?
Thanks for your answer. Really like your videos.
Csaba Ferth Good question. The answer is "somewhat". My ring finger does come in contact with the stick and helps it up slightly. Thanks for watching.
😮😱😱😧😦😦I once had dreams of becoming the best drummer ever. Hah! Tch ...😕😕😕
Amazing.
now u get it
excellent
Jojo talks about the same on his dvd, he even plays on a pizza!! lol
MY CHANNEL A CLOCKWORK DRUMMER....SALUTES VIC FIRTH
Dr. Wooten, you are a fine player and outstanding teacher, however, the way to learn a smooth roll is to BREAK THE WRIST, not to use fingers. You don't use your fingers at tempo yourself. You have to use follow-through, breaking your wrist slightly more than what is required to make contact with the drum. I can play a smooth roll using only my middle finger and ring finger, using no thumb. I am able to do this because of the break of the wrist. The idea is to play THROUGH the drum, not "TO" the drum. The use of snapping of the fingers is good for shuffle beats, but at tempo you don't snap your fingers at all. The key is to make the STICK do the work, break your wrist a slight bit more, and work with the rebound of the stick. I have been playing for over 40 years, and I did the snapping of the fingers thing a LONG time ago, but I realized that this is really not what is happening at all.
@Francois Muller It is the bending of the wrist a little bit past what it takes to make contact with the drum.
@Francois Muller I have a video that explains and demonstrates how to play a double stroke roll. Search for "double stroke roll explained in depth."
I know how to do a sextuple stroke roll
Oh hell yea Phone Books duct taped, bicycle seats, spare tires,( btw bass peddle meets on the second stacked tire)...in my padded closet, door closed...uh oh run out of air,,gasp gasp hu hu need vents....must bang on sumpthin other than well deserving people....what ever it takes to get there...but ya never really get there....always room for improvement..cloth covered books are good for drawing out notes....careful tendonitis if you dont get well rounded exercise..avoid obsession
I will never be able to do it.
Brent Haskins can you do it now?
dude your a metrodome sweet
Singles, doubles & paradiddles Exercise...
re rapido
The double stroke roll cannot be practiced slow. There is a minimum tempo where the rebound happens and can be controlled, bellow that it can only be played as controlled strokes. Most self taught drummers, including me, had real trouble developing fast double stroke rolls precisely because we were told to practice slow. When teaching the double stroke, i immediately have them play it fast to show it can be done once you know what you are looking for. Specifically, i have them play a buzzroll and while at it have them slowly raise their arms. The doubles happens as if magic and from that point on they know exactly what to look for.
No, you are incorrect. A double stroke roll CAN be practiced slowly, but you have to use follow through. You should be able to play a double stroke roll cleanly at sixteenth notes at 80 bpm. This is slow, but if you have a good follow through, you can play it just as cleanly as using fingers. If you want to develop a fast double stroke roll, you must practice it slowly, develop the muscles in your hands, wrists and arms, but use less motion, but more efficient motion. I would never advise anyone to begin learning any rudiment at a fast tempo. Buzzrolls for beginners will almost assuredly cause your students to play with tension.
@@tootallforbaseball I agree, and another benefit from starting slow is to warm muscles, ligaments, tendons, while developing the muscles, the same with practicing all instruments, also gives time to focus on quality of the sound of each note
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877 Check this out and open your mind: th-cam.com/video/gIoFgVahXDA/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/10DSn3VeJG0/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/NZK29EquH28/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/P3hiR0fYHv4/w-d-xo.html
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877 No, you don’t “have” to use 2 movements to play a double stroke roll slowly. You have to play through the drum and use a little more wrist break. But let’s face it, a roll that is very slow is really not much of a “roll.” I am like you- I am not a fan of a stiff (what call “bam bam”) grip. Lots of corps guys won’t like that reference. I do like the Coliauta, Weckl, Rich and (hundreds of others) technique. But if you play corps, you would do it like Dr. Wooten.
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877 don't recall trying to impress or prove anything to you or anyone else, certainly don't have a need to post video's of myself. When I have time to record(and when you have kids and work) I'm only interested in recording music. Not sure of the logic that posting videos equates to passion or "caring" about drumming.
why do i need a padded cell to practice..Fkn neighbors dont understand, only drummers understand,,surfaces call out to be struck in odd time signatures...drumming calls you not the other way around...mathmatical art / science that transcends yet incorporates logic which escapes ordinary mortals (poor souls) will they ever develop L / R brain sycnophathic awareness = whole brain function.. we call it the zone needs to be mandatory in school...love ya.. keep seekin at all cost
huuuuuuuh?
this isn't that great a video. check out jojo mayer's secret weapons for the modern drummer, where he actually explains how to use your wrist for the first stroke and your fingers to snap the second one back - i had no idea how people did doubles so fast until i saw that video and practiced like mad on it
DO NOT PRACTICE THIS WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not? Just curious.
Christian Carter this is a perfectly good way to practice. the method is simple and effective. carrying on the same technique no matter what tempo argues consistency of sound. the rebound approach allows you to make use of the bounce of the stick. why play without bounce when there's bounce available? the fingers add the extra weight to the second note. since at medium to fast tempos the wrist won't have time to initiate two strokes the fingers add the power from the low height of the rebound. Sturtze mentions the need for an extra snap on the second note in his book the Sturtze drum instructor. it's a fine way to play
why not
Fuck off