John, I've been a long time fan of your channel! I own a medical device manufacturing facility in Montreal, Canada. We have a 2023 Willemin 508MT2 making micro implantable parts all day long. Let me know if you want to drop by! You've help us in so many aspects of our business so I would be glad to share aspects of our workflow.
Love the idea of mill turns like this. One piece flow with finished parts, bar feed automation, minimal setups. Surprised machines like this aren’t more popular.
New machines are pretty expensive. Used ones are not widely available. The ones that are available tend to be older machines which might not have the support that they need from a parts and software perspective.
@@brandons9138I get why existing machines are few. Just mildly surprised more companies haven’t gotten into the mill turn space and that there isn’t more demand from potential customers.
@@stacybehrens7152 Most of these machines have a pretty small work envelope. Making them fairly specialized. On a live tool lathe the work envelope is much larger making it a more versatile machine. On a lot of parts true 5th axis work is just not needed. Poking a hole at an angle can be done with angle head live tools on a regular lathe.
@@brandons9138 sad but true. i am having a hard time justifying a 4th millturn and the work i got is basically custom-tailored to them. AND DEAR LORD THE PRICES.... even ignoring my current need for a 160mm bar feed, the mazaks i'm running were close to 3x the price of a comparable lathe
I reckon every machine tool builder out there is hoping you buy one of their machines because they know full well that if you like it, it’s going to sell 10x more units after you make a video on them. Great vid.
The beautiful artistic movement of slew bearings. I can think of the future looking back at us digging up earth based material, melting it, and cutting it.
@@nyccnc yes to that statement! I almost bought a decent looking L25 citezen at auction recently but after doing a bunch of research I learned that not only do you need non fusion 360 software for the CAM but also set ups times are long as hell and the crash pucker factor is strong with swiss lathes. So that Willemin is starting to look sexier by the minute. This all started as a hobby in my garage with a tormach 770 but I keep wanting to up my machinig game. My last big upgrade was a fancy video CMM and now I want a higher tolerance machine to really try the hard stuff like keeping millionths (although I love my Haas for getting me to this point).
So you need to turn the end of bars first. My first CNC lathe was a Miyano ENC- 3BC. You had to place the 12 ft long bar in the machine and put a full chamfer on the end. Flip the bar around and the chamfer end went into the mechanical bar feeder. This was a bit of a pain. But the worst was the day an operator put the new bar into the machine to chamfer the end and forgot to put it into the bar feed first. Hit spindle start and BOOM CRASH! Several thousand dollars damaged in 2 seconds. I love the idea of that speciality machine to turn the end. No longer a problem at our shop since we use LNS magazine feeders. However you do loose more material with them. With the Miyano feed you didn’t have much of a slug left. You could retract the pusher and put in a pusher extension which would take it to just enough to hold the part. In most cases you’d end up with only a few inches wasted. Kool machine you got there. Like to know what it cost new.
Glad to see you got one! I remember meeting you at IMTS 2016 and we walked together to Samsung (you were looking for decent low cost dual spindle lathe), Kern and Willimen booths. Love the MistAway blow box for doing the primary cleanup on the parts. Any plans for a Kern? Love you channel and watching the growth. Keep it up and thanks for many hours of entertainment and education!
17:15 at least on our LNS ALPHA 552 bar feeders when working with 52 diameter we need to machine to 46,7mm in diameter the bar at one end. We don't use a lathe we use a chamfering machine the LNS PB80
@@alphadog6970 I have one but don't know how to use it and stay so busy with my manual work I don't know when I will get around to testing those waters.
id love to hear more about air cleaning, i see alot of mistaway in your shop, and mistfit aeroex in Grimsmo's shop. mistaway is much cheaper, but hows the preformance diference?
Hello, do you know how to program the machine to alert us using the machine warning lights when the machine error's out? I have some machines that alert me using the lights and some machines not alerting me at all. Thank you again for your help!
Are you running oil for coolant? If so, has that presented any challenges for you like cleaning and maintenance that causes downtime? Also have you looked into small package mill turns like Okuma Multus B200 or DN Solutions SMX?
Curious what this machine (or equivalent) would cost new, totally set up ready to run? Are there job shops that will manufacture parts on these machines or are they mostly used for house for manufacturing? I did a search for job shops and came up empty.
cool to see it after hearing so much about it on the BOM. for bar prep: wouldn´t any old bridgeport (head tilted to the side) and a boring head do the trick? #bootstrapper thinking out loud :D
i dont think you have idea of the tolerances involved in machining theoretically yes, practicall cant hold the tolerances and this is faster AND you get to brag about your Willy😂
@@Basement_CNC maybe that was not clear enough - I was only referring to the necessary bar prep on the newer machines (to avoid buying a Bar Champ) topic John is talking about at around @16:55 ...but looking at their website I have to say I´m surprised John says it´s "not an inexpensive machine"
15:30 are they so expensive because they have a patent on that style of tool? I'm using Capto C6 for my machine and those tools are 3x the cost of a normal cat40 holder. I know when sandvik did have the patent for this toolholder the price was higher but if you pay 800 dollar for such a small turning tool holder i think you are overpaying. The price for a bigger capto C6 turing holder is around 300 a 400 euro's.
How do you go from a model on Fusion 360, to run a CAM code on the Willemin-Macodel 408MT CNC? Does fusion360 already know how many axis this machine has? Maybe this is a stupid question?🤔🤔🤔
Most cutting oils to day have a very high ignition point. At my shop we have 19 Swiss machines that run almost 24/7 not a single one has a fire suppression systme on it. the only one that caught fire was due to operator error.
Thanks for showing us your Willy
Really hogging away that material. Surprised it didn't need more lubricant.
You had to say it😂
John, I've been a long time fan of your channel! I own a medical device manufacturing facility in Montreal, Canada. We have a 2023 Willemin 508MT2 making micro implantable parts all day long. Let me know if you want to drop by! You've help us in so many aspects of our business so I would be glad to share aspects of our workflow.
Love the idea of mill turns like this. One piece flow with finished parts, bar feed automation, minimal setups. Surprised machines like this aren’t more popular.
New machines are pretty expensive. Used ones are not widely available. The ones that are available tend to be older machines which might not have the support that they need from a parts and software perspective.
@@brandons9138I get why existing machines are few. Just mildly surprised more companies haven’t gotten into the mill turn space and that there isn’t more demand from potential customers.
@@stacybehrens7152 Most of these machines have a pretty small work envelope. Making them fairly specialized. On a live tool lathe the work envelope is much larger making it a more versatile machine. On a lot of parts true 5th axis work is just not needed. Poking a hole at an angle can be done with angle head live tools on a regular lathe.
@@brandons9138 sad but true. i am having a hard time justifying a 4th millturn and the work i got is basically custom-tailored to them.
AND DEAR LORD THE PRICES.... even ignoring my current need for a 160mm bar feed, the mazaks i'm running were close to 3x the price of a comparable lathe
I reckon every machine tool builder out there is hoping you buy one of their machines because they know full well that if you like it, it’s going to sell 10x more units after you make a video on them.
Great vid.
The beautiful artistic movement of slew bearings. I can think of the future looking back at us digging up earth based material, melting it, and cutting it.
You never cease to amaze me John ! Your channel is at the top of the pyramid for being super useful & always doing something new !
I thought I wanted a swiss for my next machine but now that I know that little machine exists, I really want a Willemin!
swiss machine = hours to set up. Willemin = minutes!
@@nyccnc yes to that statement! I almost bought a decent looking L25 citezen at auction recently but after doing a bunch of research I learned that not only do you need non fusion 360 software for the CAM but also set ups times are long as hell and the crash pucker factor is strong with swiss lathes. So that Willemin is starting to look sexier by the minute.
This all started as a hobby in my garage with a tormach 770 but I keep wanting to up my machinig game. My last big upgrade was a fancy video CMM and now I want a higher tolerance machine to really try the hard stuff like keeping millionths (although I love my Haas for getting me to this point).
So you need to turn the end of bars first. My first CNC lathe was a Miyano ENC- 3BC. You had to place the 12 ft long bar in the machine and put a full chamfer on the end. Flip the bar around and the chamfer end went into the mechanical bar feeder. This was a bit of a pain. But the worst was the day an operator put the new bar into the machine to chamfer the end and forgot to put it into the bar feed first. Hit spindle start and BOOM CRASH! Several thousand dollars damaged in 2 seconds. I love the idea of that speciality machine to turn the end. No longer a problem at our shop since we use LNS magazine feeders. However you do loose more material with them. With the Miyano feed you didn’t have much of a slug left. You could retract the pusher and put in a pusher extension which would take it to just enough to hold the part. In most cases you’d end up with only a few inches wasted. Kool machine you got there. Like to know what it cost new.
Love the idea of this , I wish there were better bar feeders for mills
good to see you in that big shop! i remember your first video and that first cnc...crazy if you compare it to now... cheers
Glad to see you got one! I remember meeting you at IMTS 2016 and we walked together to Samsung (you were looking for decent low cost dual spindle lathe), Kern and Willimen booths. Love the MistAway blow box for doing the primary cleanup on the parts. Any plans for a Kern? Love you channel and watching the growth. Keep it up and thanks for many hours of entertainment and education!
17:15 at least on our LNS ALPHA 552 bar feeders when working with 52 diameter we need to machine to 46,7mm in diameter the bar at one end. We don't use a lathe we use a chamfering machine the LNS PB80
Wait till you get to run a 508MT2 Linear!
Nice to be able to virtually finish a part in one setup.
Brian will we see cnc in your shop?
@@alphadog6970 I have one but don't know how to use it and stay so busy with my manual work I don't know when I will get around to testing those waters.
Looks amazing but Nakamura are crazy machines with milling head and turning turret. Also with subspindle
id love to hear more about air cleaning, i see alot of mistaway in your shop, and mistfit aeroex in Grimsmo's shop. mistaway is much cheaper, but hows the preformance diference?
Just a question if the machine starts by parting off wouldn’t you save an operation by parting off instead of the vise twisting it off?
The early mill-turn manual machines are super cool too! sub'd😊
Hello, do you know how to program the machine to alert us using the machine warning lights when the machine error's out? I have some machines that alert me using the lights and some machines not alerting me at all. Thank you again for your help!
Yeah but what’s going on with the J5 build that so many people contributed parts to??
Awesome machine! Is the CAD file you are programing with publicly available?
You should look at star Swiss style especially the sr38
That machine looks like it would be perfect for machining rifle actions!
Great video. I look at them every time I’m at IMTS. Neat, just too small for our applications.
I'm still glad I subscribed twelve years ago. (four Google accounts since then)
that moving vise was exactly what I asked about many months ago!1 awesome!!
Are you running oil for coolant? If so, has that presented any challenges for you like cleaning and maintenance that causes downtime? Also have you looked into small package mill turns like Okuma Multus B200 or DN Solutions SMX?
Does it have its own coolant hopper?
brilliant idea!
Did u got this machine from Czech Republic.
Curious what this machine (or equivalent) would cost new, totally set up ready to run? Are there job shops that will manufacture parts on these machines or are they mostly used for house for manufacturing? I did a search for job shops and came up empty.
im an hour away from nyc, can i take a tour?
cool to see it after hearing so much about it on the BOM. for bar prep: wouldn´t any old bridgeport (head tilted to the side) and a boring head do the trick? #bootstrapper thinking out loud :D
i dont think you have idea of the tolerances involved in machining
theoretically yes, practicall cant hold the tolerances and this is faster AND you get to brag about your Willy😂
@@Basement_CNC maybe that was not clear enough - I was only referring to the necessary bar prep on the newer machines (to avoid buying a Bar Champ) topic John is talking about at around @16:55 ...but looking at their website I have to say I´m surprised John says it´s "not an inexpensive machine"
15:30 are they so expensive because they have a patent on that style of tool? I'm using Capto C6 for my machine and those tools are 3x the cost of a normal cat40 holder. I know when sandvik did have the patent for this toolholder the price was higher but if you pay 800 dollar for such a small turning tool holder i think you are overpaying. The price for a bigger capto C6 turing holder is around 300 a 400 euro's.
I believe other companies make holders now. I can’t think of what the generic name is for capto but they have a bunch on msc for cheap now
Pretty cool little machine. If you’re not utilizing 5 axis/mill turn capabilities I think I’d go with a Swiss. Would make the parts way faster
Citizen has Swiss machines that can do 5 axis work now. They have machines with tool changers as well.
For sure, a swiss will make parts WAY faster, but setups ruin it for us. Willemin can switch parts in minutes; almost no setup time/risk/hassle.
How much are those running for (cost)?
new ,depending on spec, i think somwhere from 1-2 mio. his is used , i think 04' model year
so yeah not going in the hobby shop😂
New they are over 500,000. Pretty cool machines. Fun and quick
Man if it was just a sliding head (Swissturn) it would be the perfect machine, why do they not make that?
Is this capto or one of those drive lugless hsk variants?
HSK40E
How do you go from a model on Fusion 360, to run a CAM code on the Willemin-Macodel 408MT CNC? Does fusion360 already know how many axis this machine has? Maybe this is a stupid question?🤔🤔🤔
Typically the post in a cam system (fusion 360) takes care of that. The posts are developed specifically for a machine
Yes, very easy in Fusion (and frankly, most CAM systems can probably handle this).
Awesome machine.
Cool little machine!
That's a rad machine.
Hos much does it cost?
depends hugely on spec and model, new similar ones go for 1-2 mio 😮 his is used , i think something like 2004 or something
yeah, i was wondering the price range, but no website even propose a price without having to contact them
annoying...
Wild guess, probably around 100k. I’d bet new they’re 200 maybe? I can’t find any for sale
@@blacklabel6223these guys are closer to 400k. Very expensive machines.
New ones range between 500 up to a million
I wonder how they machined the cylinders and pistons for the first Wankel Engines...
0:26 your WHAT?!
Imagine you have a customer in the shop and you ask them "can i show you my willy?"
The programming on that part must have taken a month...
As somebody who taught himself to program them 20 years ago- -They are super easy to program -
takes about an hour. less now that we have tools and existing CAM we can copy over.
Must be real expensive if you can't afford them.
Disappointed this video name wasn't "come check out our willy"
Please free willy.
Machine porn. LOL!
Running cutting oil without a fire suppression system is very dangerous. Even when not running lights out.
Most cutting oils to day have a very high ignition point. At my shop we have 19 Swiss machines that run almost 24/7 not a single one has a fire suppression systme on it. the only one that caught fire was due to operator error.
@@brandons9138…but it did catch fire.
First 😅