I've never really done much in the Isle of the Nameless, specifically testing skills for damage, etc. I've recently done just that for comments under later vids in this series. Given the purpose of this explorable area, it should be an exception that allowed changing 2nd, changing point allocation up or down, and changing skill bar. In short, an explorable that acted like an outpost for skills, etc. Really a pain to have to come in and out for testing. Am I missing some trick? Come to think, the only time I can recall testing stuff was trying to determine the bow type for Keiran's Bow.
When this video series first caught my attention, I was expecting just a discussion on GW skills, tactics, etc., but the game balance and design commentary became of increasing interest. How do you think the game overall balanced conditions and hexes? Should these have been better visualized (e.g. adding a darker green over green for disease and poison, some clear and different visualizations for blind, cracked armor and weakness on the health bar). My team has bleeding but this guy's bar is green. I need to hit bleeding, but I'm not sure. The AI knows what's what, but the player cannot always tell unless they applied themselves and even then perhaps it didn't take for some reason or has already been cured. I would have thought that the designers would have tried and decided too cumbersome, but.... The game uses a lot of thresholds. More or less health than you. Over/under 50% health. More or less energy. In a later video I suggested having a targeted foe's health bar blink at less than 50% and blink rapidly at (e.g.) under 33%. I know of no way to measure a foe's energy at a glance in battle. From a design standpoint I can guess the designer's problem, bombard the player with battle stats or just show the vitals. Any ideas on how these issues could have been better handled? Since deep wound comes off the bottom, should the indicator be on the left side of the health bar? (I still cringe at ~45:00 due to your atrocious slander of Warrior's Endurance.)
I think there is interesting differentiation between conditions and hexes in general terms. Conditions are both easier to apply and easier to remove than hexes, and conditions are generic, but useful, effects while hexes are all unique. I like that base design. I like what Guild Wars 2 does with having what is basically an effects monitor under the target's health bar. That'd be nice in Guild Wars 1. I will say that I think the designers did a really good job making mostly distinct visual effects for the different conditions that float around the models. Burning, Bleed, Poison, Disease, Weakness, Blind...they all have their own visuals. That can be hard to notice in battle, though. All of those thresholds (especially the percentage HP ones) are why many players run texture mods with HP bars that have lines at those thresholds. I don't, but I can see how useful they'd be. As far as energy, I think being able to see it would be too strong of a tactical advantage in PvP, and they never made a system for seeing enemy HP. The best you'll get are things like Mind Wrack triggers, unfortunately. I'm not sure how showing you PvE enemy energy would affect play. It might be hard to communicate, too, without adding a lot of additional clutter that doesn't matter a lot of time. Maybe making it an optional UI element that's off by default? As you guessed, it's very easy to overload the player with UI stuff that makes it hard to know what to pay attention to. This is especially a problem early on in a player's experience, since too much information can be disorienting as they don't know what things mean or what to pay attention to. I think a system that lets players choose to add in additional information as they want it is probably best, but you also have to ask yourself how much time you want to spend implementing such things, and how valuable (that is, used) such features would be. It's always a balancing act. You'd probably choose to do it with unlimited resources (if you thought of the idea and thought it could help), but resources are always limited. I think you're right that removing the deep wound from the left side might help communicate the way it works better. That'd require some testing. I'd be interested in seeing the results.
@@Sientir There are skills (i.e. the ele Mind series) that have conditional effects if you have more energy than the target foe. (There may be more that I can't recall.) When I target an enemy, I get their health bar from which I can at least make an educated guess at to total health remaining and & of max. How hard would have been an energy bar right under it. The computer knows mine and I assume my heroes know everyone's (friend and foe). I'll refer again to a battle that went south some years ago. Each time a teammate was rezed, they got hit with Aneurysm. Maybe that was just coincidence, but I suspect the enemy AI knows when energy is low. Something to even the battlefield in PvE.
@@tarheel7406 There are some assumptions you can make about maximum energy based on profession, since all characters of a profession have the same default amounts (Warrior has 20, for example) and you can assume high energy on elementalist enemies. Of course, these are just for maxes, and I have no idea if the AI enemies get equipment that increases their energy, or any equipment benefits at all, for that matter. I'm not sure if it makes it a better game to reveal energy bars or not, but I agree that it'd be fairer in a world of AI all knowing energy bars of everything.
Another re-revisit by me, this time with (hopefully) even better analysis improved by your comments and more experience, including some proposed builds. I should likely apologize for (or at least acknowledge) the length of my comments. You have put in a lot of time and effort in these videos; therefore, they deserve more than just a thumbs up. These comments also serve to document my thoughts that I can revisit until the vids are no longer available....
I think I did somewhere? I don't recall off the top of my head anymore at this point, though. I did this quite a while ago. I have mixed feelings about them. I don't like messing with attribute ranks like a bunch of them do. I did super enjoy hunting them down, though! That period of discovery was fantastic, and made me really wish we could get more content for Guild Wars 1 regularly. To share current thoughts: Seven Weapons Stance: Extremely powerful, opens up some interesting options. I appreciate that it includes an attack speed buff. I think I'd rate it about a 4 for me? "Together as One!": Probably overpowered, but I don't mind throwing Rangers a bone. Pretty universally usable, too, so probably 4-5 territory. Heroic Refrain: The worst-designed of the anniversary skills. Very powerful, but extremely tedious to actually play with. It should just apply it to all allies in earshot when used or something to avoid the tedium of having to apply it to everyone. I have no idea what to rate it...it's extremely powerful, but you also have to build around it sufficiently to maintain it, so it kinda bounces around a 2 (build-around skills; not inherently bad) and a 5 (the most overpowered stuff that makes you not use anything else). Judgment Strike: This is very middling, though I do quite like it. It plays well on secondary Monks with melee weapons where the effect is, in my opinion, acceptable. Probably around a 3? Over the Limit: This solves zero of Ele's problems and feels like a gross misunderstanding of the state of the profession (at least in my opinion). I'd rate it a 2, as the recharge buff gives it some interesting build-around possibilities, though nothing all that strong. It does affect all spells, so it has some possible applications with secondaries. Shadow Theft: I love that this is a lead attack, and the fact that it's a skill is nice (so anti-spell skills like Spellbreaker can't stop it). I think I'd probably give it around a 4-5, though I'm not entirely sure where. Assassins can get away with not needing an elite (Death Blossom too stronk), which makes this a solid default option. Soul Taker: As a build-around-me, this is a classic 2. Has some interesting synergies, but having to reapply enchantments is tedious. I've heard Soul Taker builds can be really strong, but I honestly haven't dabbled with it that much. Time Ward: Probably a 3? The effect is meaningful, but nowhere near good enough to displace Energy Surge, Panic, or one of the other powerful Mesmer elites. It doesn't open up any interesting build opportunities, either, it just makes current builds work better. Might be a 1 because the Ebon Vanguard skill Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom is probably just better and doesn't take your elite slot. Vow of Revolution: I like this skill a lot (the design is really intriguing and gets the buildcrafting juices flowing). It's a 2. I do like it with dagger spam, since it's more fire-and-forget than Zealous Vow and doesn't require investment in wind prayers, but that's more a sidegrade than an upgrade realistically speaking. It's kind of a solution in search of a problem, unfortunately. It's probably great on a D/Rt healer (like Ether Prodigy is on E/Rt healer), but most players want to play offense. Weapons of Three Forges: This is fun, but probably around a 3? It's too chaotic to really be good. It does synergize nicely with minions and poorly with any other weapon spells on the team. I don't think it's quite the build-around-me status of a 2? It doesn't feel quite as bad as a 1? It's a bit hard to evaluate. I love the idea, though!
Awesome! Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. (So far I've not found the video review. In case that I do find it and I think there's important info in there that's not in your reply, I'll post the link here.)
@@Sientir Ah, oke. No problem. I remember that I wrote them down before, but due to a harddrive crash I lost the file. I've to do it again I guess. Thanks for replying and doing these skill reviews. It's been quite instructive.
I hadn't thought much about it; I just went in alphabetical order for the convenience of logistics-if you sort the skill lists on the Wiki by attribute, it presents them alphabetically, and the attributes are arranged alphabetically in the game, too (at least in the skill selection portion, anyway).
For some reason, YT started recommending these again. After 3 years, curious if you now have more HM experience amd whether that has changed some of your analysis. Frankly, NM is rather forgiving and better, much less optimum, skills really isn't that required.
wow i’m so happy i found this. i’m gonna be watching the whole series. i’m pretty new (returning) to the game and have a lot to learn
I've never really done much in the Isle of the Nameless, specifically testing skills for damage, etc. I've recently done just that for comments under later vids in this series. Given the purpose of this explorable area, it should be an exception that allowed changing 2nd, changing point allocation up or down, and changing skill bar. In short, an explorable that acted like an outpost for skills, etc. Really a pain to have to come in and out for testing. Am I missing some trick?
Come to think, the only time I can recall testing stuff was trying to determine the bow type for Keiran's Bow.
It would be really nice to be able to change builds while in the Isle of the Nameless. Unfortunately, there's no way of doing that that I'm aware of.
When this video series first caught my attention, I was expecting just a discussion on GW skills, tactics, etc., but the game balance and design commentary became of increasing interest. How do you think the game overall balanced conditions and hexes? Should these have been better visualized (e.g. adding a darker green over green for disease and poison, some clear and different visualizations for blind, cracked armor and weakness on the health bar). My team has bleeding but this guy's bar is green. I need to hit bleeding, but I'm not sure. The AI knows what's what, but the player cannot always tell unless they applied themselves and even then perhaps it didn't take for some reason or has already been cured. I would have thought that the designers would have tried and decided too cumbersome, but....
The game uses a lot of thresholds. More or less health than you. Over/under 50% health. More or less energy. In a later video I suggested having a targeted foe's health bar blink at less than 50% and blink rapidly at (e.g.) under 33%. I know of no way to measure a foe's energy at a glance in battle.
From a design standpoint I can guess the designer's problem, bombard the player with battle stats or just show the vitals. Any ideas on how these issues could have been better handled? Since deep wound comes off the bottom, should the indicator be on the left side of the health bar?
(I still cringe at ~45:00 due to your atrocious slander of Warrior's Endurance.)
I think there is interesting differentiation between conditions and hexes in general terms. Conditions are both easier to apply and easier to remove than hexes, and conditions are generic, but useful, effects while hexes are all unique. I like that base design.
I like what Guild Wars 2 does with having what is basically an effects monitor under the target's health bar. That'd be nice in Guild Wars 1.
I will say that I think the designers did a really good job making mostly distinct visual effects for the different conditions that float around the models. Burning, Bleed, Poison, Disease, Weakness, Blind...they all have their own visuals. That can be hard to notice in battle, though.
All of those thresholds (especially the percentage HP ones) are why many players run texture mods with HP bars that have lines at those thresholds. I don't, but I can see how useful they'd be.
As far as energy, I think being able to see it would be too strong of a tactical advantage in PvP, and they never made a system for seeing enemy HP. The best you'll get are things like Mind Wrack triggers, unfortunately. I'm not sure how showing you PvE enemy energy would affect play. It might be hard to communicate, too, without adding a lot of additional clutter that doesn't matter a lot of time. Maybe making it an optional UI element that's off by default?
As you guessed, it's very easy to overload the player with UI stuff that makes it hard to know what to pay attention to. This is especially a problem early on in a player's experience, since too much information can be disorienting as they don't know what things mean or what to pay attention to. I think a system that lets players choose to add in additional information as they want it is probably best, but you also have to ask yourself how much time you want to spend implementing such things, and how valuable (that is, used) such features would be. It's always a balancing act. You'd probably choose to do it with unlimited resources (if you thought of the idea and thought it could help), but resources are always limited.
I think you're right that removing the deep wound from the left side might help communicate the way it works better. That'd require some testing. I'd be interested in seeing the results.
Oh, and I should add, I'm glad to hear that the design and balance discussion was interesting. :D
@@Sientir There are skills (i.e. the ele Mind series) that have conditional effects if you have more energy than the target foe. (There may be more that I can't recall.) When I target an enemy, I get their health bar from which I can at least make an educated guess at to total health remaining and & of max. How hard would have been an energy bar right under it. The computer knows mine and I assume my heroes know everyone's (friend and foe).
I'll refer again to a battle that went south some years ago. Each time a teammate was rezed, they got hit with Aneurysm. Maybe that was just coincidence, but I suspect the enemy AI knows when energy is low. Something to even the battlefield in PvE.
@@tarheel7406 There are some assumptions you can make about maximum energy based on profession, since all characters of a profession have the same default amounts (Warrior has 20, for example) and you can assume high energy on elementalist enemies. Of course, these are just for maxes, and I have no idea if the AI enemies get equipment that increases their energy, or any equipment benefits at all, for that matter.
I'm not sure if it makes it a better game to reveal energy bars or not, but I agree that it'd be fairer in a world of AI all knowing energy bars of everything.
Another re-revisit by me, this time with (hopefully) even better analysis improved by your comments and more experience, including some proposed builds.
I should likely apologize for (or at least acknowledge) the length of my comments. You have put in a lot of time and effort in these videos; therefore, they deserve more than just a thumbs up. These comments also serve to document my thoughts that I can revisit until the vids are no longer available....
@Sientir Did you review the 10 new elites from the 2020 update? I'm curious what you think of it.
I think I did somewhere? I don't recall off the top of my head anymore at this point, though. I did this quite a while ago.
I have mixed feelings about them. I don't like messing with attribute ranks like a bunch of them do. I did super enjoy hunting them down, though! That period of discovery was fantastic, and made me really wish we could get more content for Guild Wars 1 regularly.
To share current thoughts:
Seven Weapons Stance: Extremely powerful, opens up some interesting options. I appreciate that it includes an attack speed buff. I think I'd rate it about a 4 for me?
"Together as One!": Probably overpowered, but I don't mind throwing Rangers a bone. Pretty universally usable, too, so probably 4-5 territory.
Heroic Refrain: The worst-designed of the anniversary skills. Very powerful, but extremely tedious to actually play with. It should just apply it to all allies in earshot when used or something to avoid the tedium of having to apply it to everyone. I have no idea what to rate it...it's extremely powerful, but you also have to build around it sufficiently to maintain it, so it kinda bounces around a 2 (build-around skills; not inherently bad) and a 5 (the most overpowered stuff that makes you not use anything else).
Judgment Strike: This is very middling, though I do quite like it. It plays well on secondary Monks with melee weapons where the effect is, in my opinion, acceptable. Probably around a 3?
Over the Limit: This solves zero of Ele's problems and feels like a gross misunderstanding of the state of the profession (at least in my opinion). I'd rate it a 2, as the recharge buff gives it some interesting build-around possibilities, though nothing all that strong. It does affect all spells, so it has some possible applications with secondaries.
Shadow Theft: I love that this is a lead attack, and the fact that it's a skill is nice (so anti-spell skills like Spellbreaker can't stop it). I think I'd probably give it around a 4-5, though I'm not entirely sure where. Assassins can get away with not needing an elite (Death Blossom too stronk), which makes this a solid default option.
Soul Taker: As a build-around-me, this is a classic 2. Has some interesting synergies, but having to reapply enchantments is tedious. I've heard Soul Taker builds can be really strong, but I honestly haven't dabbled with it that much.
Time Ward: Probably a 3? The effect is meaningful, but nowhere near good enough to displace Energy Surge, Panic, or one of the other powerful Mesmer elites. It doesn't open up any interesting build opportunities, either, it just makes current builds work better. Might be a 1 because the Ebon Vanguard skill Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom is probably just better and doesn't take your elite slot.
Vow of Revolution: I like this skill a lot (the design is really intriguing and gets the buildcrafting juices flowing). It's a 2. I do like it with dagger spam, since it's more fire-and-forget than Zealous Vow and doesn't require investment in wind prayers, but that's more a sidegrade than an upgrade realistically speaking. It's kind of a solution in search of a problem, unfortunately. It's probably great on a D/Rt healer (like Ether Prodigy is on E/Rt healer), but most players want to play offense.
Weapons of Three Forges: This is fun, but probably around a 3? It's too chaotic to really be good. It does synergize nicely with minions and poorly with any other weapon spells on the team. I don't think it's quite the build-around-me status of a 2? It doesn't feel quite as bad as a 1? It's a bit hard to evaluate. I love the idea, though!
Awesome! Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. (So far I've not found the video review. In case that I do find it and I think there's important info in there that's not in your reply, I'll post the link here.)
Is there somewhere a list where I can look up your skill ratings? I can't remember all those skill ratings.
I haven't compiled any sort of list/reference, sorry!
@@Sientir Ah, oke. No problem. I remember that I wrote them down before, but due to a harddrive crash I lost the file. I've to do it again I guess.
Thanks for replying and doing these skill reviews. It's been quite instructive.
Is there a reason that you didn't start with each profession's primary attribute line and then go from there for each one?
I hadn't thought much about it; I just went in alphabetical order for the convenience of logistics-if you sort the skill lists on the Wiki by attribute, it presents them alphabetically, and the attributes are arranged alphabetically in the game, too (at least in the skill selection portion, anyway).
For some reason, YT started recommending these again. After 3 years, curious if you now have more HM experience amd whether that has changed some of your analysis. Frankly, NM is rather forgiving and better, much less optimum, skills really isn't that required.
Hmmm... Wondering if I should take advice from someone without a heavy equipment pack. :)
Ha! Man, those things are expensive...
I did actually finally get one for one of my characters, though!