I completely agree, I've always thought modern Who was a bit too rushed. I think two parters should be the norm so we can bring back decent cliffhangers and have room for stories to breathe.
"I've always thought modern Who was a bit too rushed. I think two parters should be the norm so we can bring back decent cliffhangers and have room for stories to breathe." I have been saying that *EXACT* same thing for years.
*This video is one of the reasons why I enjoy Tharries Channel.* Yesterday was a discussion of viewing figures with actual numbers. Today we have a video with real critical analysis...and not the wild speculation often found on some Doctor Who channels.
The issue is probably more noticable bc we've now had 4 RTD stories in a row, the lack of other writers has put the spotlight on the flaws of the sole writer we had this year (keeping in mind the showrunner role and writer role is very different)
I feel the show should get an increase of runtime, even if it's just to 75 minutes it'll help with the pacing issues, as it stands the episodes seem to sacrifice the story to allow the character moments to breathe, when by all accounts it should be allowed to do both.
It's always been thus. I remember being so excited by Ecclestons series, and thinking all RTD needed to do is learn a bit as to how to more satisfactorily end a story.... 15 years on and I'm still waiting. Handwaving the plot is not a bug, but a feature of RTDs writing. The fact the show prospered despite that is how we ended up with Chibnall's extreme examples of the same.
The incredible thing about series 1 is that most episodes built on each other in some way. Rift introduced by Gelth, Then the Slitheen try to use the rift, and are defeated by the heart of the tardis. Then in the finale the heart of the tardis is something established and so the ending seems more justified.
After Chibnall's infuriating level of clunk my tolerance for RTD's is still pretty high. So far the dialogue being so much more fun and organic relative to the last three series is doing it for me. I can hang for several more episodes before I begin to doubt this season's quality.
Apart from Wild Blue Yonder, which I think was a pretty great script from start to finish, I think the rest of the episodes have had problems. More than just the endings I think their have been alot of pacing issues, some very on the nose dialogue and just other decisions I haven't like, for example the Doctor and Ruby breaking out into song, I know that worked for some people, but it felt way off to me. Still going to stick with the show and see how series 14 goes and their have been parts of all 4 episodes I enjoyed, but ultimately so far I'm only truly happy from start to finish with 1 of the 4 episodes, which is disappointing.
After I got over my shock and excitement when I heard RTD was coming back I did realise there would be the odd convenient ending. That is how I felt about the original reboot. Tharries put his finger on why it was so noticeable now, it is because these were all written by RTD without having other writer's episodes to break it up.
It feels like he’s trying to emulate Moffat’s more kiddy “everything’s a okay!” Lack of stakes, which is a shame . Even when he did in series 3, it still had lasting consequences, the Jones family were traumatised and Martha became a lot more hardened as a solider . Here? Donna…just remembers, no stings attached Feels like they needed rhe stories to be ten minutes longer lr be 90 minutes long like a Sherlock story . Wouldn’t have had him save that interviewer either.
RTD has a habit of using "magic button" plot resolutions, but those are easier for me to accept than his propensity for fairytale endings, where essentially plots are resolved by the power of sentimentality... things like... a child's wish... the power of love... and other "clap your hands if you believe in fairies" fluff. Now with magical beings overtly entering the whoniverse, with little or no justification, I suspect we will get more and more magical endings to plots. This will be hard to dial back in the writers room. It's a Pandora's box of lazy cheats. Nothing maintains dramatic weight when everything can be swept away, and undone with a magical wink.
I think the start to this era has been a bit restrictive in a way that ends up highlighting this kind of issue. Not only have we had 4 stories written only by RTD, but each one of them has been a special episode with certain "requirements" to hit for the next episodes. I don't think its a surprise that wild blue yonder feels much better in that respect, its given much more space to breathe as a story on its own.
The lack of jeopardy and consequences drags down the quality of episodes for me , a quite liked the church on Ruby road and love the dynamic between Ncuti and Millie already but the lack of panic and urgency in rescuing Ruby’s new foster sibling Lulubell really bugged me
I think you make a really good point. When it comes to the Star Beast, The Giggle, and Ruby Road I can understand the rushed endings more because these stories really need to focus on the characters (the new characters and those returning after a long time). I hope that Russel writes more satisfying endings for his next episodes where the characters don’t need to be highlighted as much.
Yep - totally agree on The Star Beast; I cringed at the 'Let it Go' moment and I almost expected Donna and Rose to burst into the song! There was no proper explanation as to why that was suddenly an option. It could have been connected to the splitting/sharing of the metacrisis energy between mother and daughter, but it needed a better line of justification than what we got. Russell has previously very successfully alluded to the consequences of alien action, for example in Wilfred Mott's conversation with the Doctor and Astrid explaining why London was deserted - we could do with a bit more of that sort of thing to provide realistic context. In Russell's defence, however, he is utilising the same device as used in 'Back to the Future' when a key event is reversed and order restored by history being re-written. I agree that it can be seen as a little too convenient if used too often.
As an old school classic Doctor Who fan, I think it’s all about how modern media is now. They write in a way so viewers will hop channels or glance on their cell phone. Everything has to be bite sized and condensed. The TikTok generation doesn’t have the attention span. For me it’s when Doctor Who went from “Reverse the polarity of the Neutron flow” to “Timey Wimey” Nothing too taxing for the brain, poor ending …oh well on to the next.
Anyone who watched the second series of Queer as Folk knows Davies doesn’t know how to end his stories. He builds up the threat, goes way too far (the Earth disappears! Everyone becomes the master! All the roads turn to lava!) No one reins him in. Less is more, as we say. There’s more horror in something that happens to a few people few will miss (Blink) and no horror when it happens to everyone. Especially if there are no consequences. He’s also badly in need of a script editor because he has a habit of putting lots of ‘tell, don’t show’ dialogue in people’s mouths. Watch how a great writer or director lets the audience work things out. For example, Donna’s Rose’s past was dumped on us without any subtlety when a third draft would’ve hinted at it and had a far bigger impact. And been far less controversial because the trolls would’ve missed it. I get the impression what we get is his first draft and not his fifth or sixth. Every writer needs a good editor. It’s their job to say ‘this doesn’t work’, ‘rewrite that bit’. But some writers are too powerful, especially in the era of the ‘show runner’, an American import that leads to things like the way Sherlock ate itself after a promising start… it’s not an RTD thing, it’s widespread. I enjoyed the specials and the Christmas episode but at times I was wondering why some of the dialogue was so clunky and nobody thought to say ‘people don’t talk in exposition, Russell’ It’s what happens in soaps and lesser dramas when a character says to another ‘you really like him, don’t you?’ Or ‘you’re really gonna miss him, aren’t you?’ All it takes is a look. Silence is often more powerful than words, and some writers think the word means ‘more words’ not fewer. Other than that, I don’t really have an opinion on the matter.
The worst one was the doctor turning into the old gremlin thing and then through the power of belief he becomes himself again, floats in the air like space Jesus with an invulnerability forcefield..like wtf was that
That’s an interesting and fair point, and, yeah, I agree. I think the weakest use of time travel in a story is to undo an outcome you didn’t like. When the goblins change history, the consequences are horrifying, as they should be. That was a great moment of terror and shock. But if that can just be undone in the next scene, it feels like my emotions are being manipulated. It’s interesting to reveal the difference Ruby’s life makes to her mum, true. But the quick undo deflates all the emotional weight, and might even leave us feeling a bit stupid for being so upset at the initial loss. I don’t think it’s impossible to do an undo story well. But I do think you’re taking on a gnarly challenge, and you’re only going to get away with it if you use the undo attempt to impose additional consequences, or you do it to reveal something important about the flow of time to inform further stories. I enjoyed the episode anyway. But, like you, I hope for more robust endings.
A decent start to the new era. Remember Doctor who was close to being cancelled permanently during Jodie time as the doctor. At least it still going and hopefully will regain its popularity. Don't take Doctor who so seriously. See it for what it is. Just light hearted family entertainment and nothing more. It's just unreal science fiction. Just watch it and enjoy the rest of your day and don't spend your time debating a tv program. There is alot more important things in life to worry about.
my issue with the male presenting Timelord line was that it just came out of left field and goes against pretty much every gender norm stereotype I've heard. I grew up being told women can't let go of grudges and from experience men (of being born one- I identify as non-binary nowadays) tend to suppress and ignore more often. I don't agree with the stereotypes, I'd say there's a pretty even amount of both from all ends. I don't think the goblin kings death was an easy way, I think it was the obvious answer and I saw it coming the moment he grabbed the ladder in that scene. I'm willing to bet the ship disappearing is more indicative of their status as previously mythical beings, from outside of the universe. I don't really know what else would or should have happened to them. All that said i do agree that overall, there are a lot of premature resolution and almost always too much crammed into a 40-60 minute episode. I agree with a lot of comments that 2 part episodes should be the norm, harkening back to classic who. My favourite episodes in NuWho are the unofficial 3 parters, like turn left/ stolen earth/ journeys end (the exception being rebel flesh/ almost people/ a good man goes to war but thats cos i hate the aesthetics of the 'gangers and kinda just the tone of these 2 part episodes) But no one can argue that Church on Ruby Road didn't have one of the best cliffhangers in recent history! "never seen a TARDIS before?"
I do agree but i think its likely that there is alot that is left on the cutting room floor because RTD seems to write in the style of introduce new world and new characters with bad stuff happening, monster reveal, doctor runs, comes up with a plan, big climax of the show and then 5 or 10 mins of aftermath or goodbyes of said event. I think depending on how big of a climax or world build that happens will completely depend on how much has to be cut down to make it fit the time slot. Like take church on ruby road as a prime example, he has the doctor save ruby as a baby and then you have 5 minutes where he goes to check on ruby, saves davina and then ruby going onto the tardis, but yet i feel like there was a scene cut out of the doctor giving ruby’s mum a number and going “call this number, its for a place called unit, tell them the doctor sent you and they sill get it all fixed” when she was saying about the flat being ruined for xmas and what supports it more is that we know it has to fit the hour time slot, but the whole doctor being snowmaned and telling the police officer his fiancée would say yes was a late edition after disney did a screen test and said it feels like you dont see the doctor for quite a while in it, where is he saving that time from? I think that is the only place where it feels like something is missing
Yes. This is RTD’s big shortcoming. He sets up these gorgeous stories with twists and turns and depth then has anticlimactic endings that leave you sort of going huh well that was kinda a let down.
I’d have preferred if Donna and Rose used the Meta Crisis energy to save the Doctor when the Toy Maker had killed 14 in the Giggle triggering the regeneration. The BiRegeneration could be explained was due to the Toy Makers Fantasy World interfering with the traditional regeneration. Or Donna and Rose could have used the Meta Crisis energy to repair London in the Star Beast.
The Bigeneration was literally a Timelord Myth, only possible because of the toymaker's effect on the rules of reality, so what you wrote is already half true- same way the Goblins were able to exist in reality "yes the goblin king, he's not a myth he's an actual thing". Unfortunately this is all explained a little too subtly in the specials, meaning RTD has had to reveal what some of the lore implications are in interviews and tweets and stuff
@@ivymoon5084 yeah essentially its because tennant played with the salt at the edge of existence where the walls are thin. It is what is making myth and fantasy a reality. Although i get his plot, i really wish he hadnt i dont think fantasy belongs in doctor who.
Basically, the whole thing has the feel of what you get with the third wish in all the stories you hear about three wishes tends to be… that it never happened.
They should create a spin off of the human races view of whats happening to earth while the Doctor is saving the day, each episode has a new unique main character, running and sheltering while calling for help kinda like the show “Fear The Walking Dead” and towards the end we will see the Aliens gone; everyone celebrating and a scene at the end of everyone happy back to normality after The Doctor has flew away
I just wish the show would handle this in a modern way. Most new shows are as long as they need to be. Meaning they can be 73, 55, or 81 minutes long. They aren’t tied to a television timeslot length in an era of streaming. Both the Giggle and The Star Beast did feel rushed in the 3rd act. That is absolutely a continuing problem. I don’t think we always need 2 or 3 parters to solve this problem (indeed now that we are in an 8-10 episode era that wouldn’t be the ideal solution), but just more time to allow events to land and create more depth, heighten tensions and resolve the crisis.
Any thoughts on the cinematography? for me I find the overly glossy/cinematic look really off-putting, even a basic wide shot of the Tardis looks awful like it's not even there. Every time I rewatch series 1 I think how I would love it to still look like that. Maybe I'm old fashioned
I'm so positive and pumped for this new era, some troll accused me of being a bot, but I don't care. This fandom has been through a lot and deserves to celebrate the show being awesome again!! That out of the way, I can see what you are saying, especially with the cracks in the Star Beast. Why write them in, if you're just going to hand wave them away, for a cool visual gag? I let it go (see what I did there?) because I loved the rest of the episode, but that part bugged me a lil. However, RTD has NEVER bugged me the same way Moffat does, cause he screws up with villain consistency, Constantly. Be it his rubberized Daleks or his rules for the Angels, or worst of all, his misuse of the Cybermen in Dark Waters/Death in Heaven, having them stupidly taking over skeletons. How could they settle for bones when all along they've been about converting the living? Changes them from body horror cyborgs into just weird robots with a skeletal fetish, and I just hated it. I loved Missy so I did my best to overlook it, but GD it was awful, and THEN they had cyber rain make metal in coffins and I was just furious for a good while.... 🤬 Then Chibs came along and I appreciated Moffat a whole lot more. 😅 Timeless Child was horrid, Flux was bad, 2022 Specials were meh at best... we've been through a lot to keep loving this show, and it is Finally coming through for us. Well, for me at least, so I'm as happy as I've been being a Whovian in years, so I don't care if my joy outshines some other people's (often bad faith) doomsayer natures.😝
At about 2:30 in the link below, The 9th Doctor told Rose Tyler to "let go!" when she absorbed all of the time vortex energy and became the Bad Wolf...I guess the 9th Doctor was a woman to have such an epiphany? RTD can't even get his own cannon correct I guess? th-cam.com/video/9847_BEaLlM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tfPCWHtEFKmJjOos
I agree with most of your comments. However, I think what we are seeing here is early days. We’ve had 4 specials - and historically RTD’s early series episodes are more about setting up characters and creating a mood and atmosphere. The other thing about neat endings is that the new era starts properly with Season 1. So it’s important not to have too much baggage left over from the 60th anniversary specials. I also feel RTD is at his best when there are other writers contributing. Just because it creates more balance in story telling. The dream team for me is RTD as show runner with Moff contributing a story per series. I am hoping we do get a few episodes each year written by others. The most important thing about Ruby Road is I think RTD has given us possibly the best new Doctor since David and the best new companion (in terms of audience identification) since Rose.
TL;DR: We have quite a few mystery boxes going and a surprising lack of emotionally-based dilemmas or catharsis to back it up. I'm worried that filming everything in advance has resulted in habits that can't be easily retracted, and every resolution can amount to Q & A where the A doesnt mean much and the How is contrived (14 came back to retire. Thats it. But he cant retire if 15 goes on. So... he can magically be both now. Dont think about it. Its like it never even happened anyway. Don't get me wrong I'm glad they're not treating 14 like a continuous part of the show but then also why bother?) Absolutely; I started making reviews and this was the main thing I had issue with. Star Beast: Rose being an inheritance was a well built to solution, and then they just 'let it go' and it retroactively made that plot line feel bizarre. Then the road uncracked and lava just went away. Wild Blue Yonder: In a story where 14 and Donna meet people who can impersonate them, making the monsters abstract physical threats rather than social emotional threats meant that when 14 has to decide the real Donna there was no "well I know donna enough to know" or "I thought I knew Donna enough but the thing I learned was wrong" and failing to develop 14 and Donna's new relationship at the expense of monster spectacle and mystery meant 14's question, choice, and reversal, were all sort of arbitrary and felt like a cheap fake out. The Giggle: There is a clear difference built that 14 is tired and 15 is renewed and they ALMOST justify why Gatwa can take the toymaker by surprise because the toymaker is too busy targeting 14 and thinking him a weak link which, when 14 almost drops the ball, uses to his advantage by throwing to Gatwa at the opportune moment ... but it's so choppy and again arbitrary that the toymaker just drops the ball because he does because... I actually wasn't nearly as bothered by the goblin ship disappearing and was relieved that AT LEAST the gloves were set up prior and used in a unique and clever and proactive way... where I still think it's lacking is there's no real catharsis or character climactic decision that says anything about the characters. So Gatwa manages to impale the goblin king... did he enjoy it? Does it mean he's a strategic doctor, or was that an accident? What does 14 realising Donna's arm is 0.08% off mean for their relationship? What does Gatwa being able to throw harder than 14 say about the difference between their doctors? At the end of the day, the doctor wins because they need to beat the bad guy. I feel like its an obvious given that usually even in an episodic episode, the MC has a moment of revelation and learns something about themselves and these episodes just skim over that for the sake of adventure and spectacle. Not bad, just holding it back from any kind of decent storytelling.
I feel like the final line shouldn't have been "I'm the Doctor" but rather Ncuti just smiling and looking at her before it cuts to the end credits with "DOCTOR WHO" in bold letters. We know who it is, tease the audience in a cheeky way
RTD has always had a tendency to write himself into a dead end, resulting in messy endings. He could so easily just remove or replace actions to avoid these consequences but he never does and just resorts to these contrived endings.
RTD gets credit for restarting DW and making a fun interesting show but Moffat took the ball and made poetry out of it. As time goes by and we see more RTD 2.0, I think we’re going to come to appreciate that Moffat was the best writer DW ever had.
The problem with RTD, is he always has great ideas, but rarely knows how to end them, to the satisfaction of fans at least. However, I’m still grateful he is back, and is as creative as ever.
Since The Disney+ Take over it also makes me wounder what way Doctor Who is going?, Because I don't have it and have to go to a friend's house to watch the New Doctor Who and I have to admit the 60th specials could have been split into Six 2 parter's maybe?, Because it's too rushed, and feels like part of the stories are cut out, as for the Celestial Toymaker, Great Choice But needed more Game Time before splitting the Doctor, When you look at the William Heartnal story the Celestial Toymaker, he would make the Doctor and Companions play for the TARDIS, but this time he could have been behind the real reason for the 14th Doctor, as there is a lot of What The !!! moments as well.
It's been an issue with almost all modern Who, largely I think because of the condensed format of 45 minutes for most stories and what you might call "peril creep". The writers have generally seemed to be more interested in establishing and ramping up a supposedly inescapable threat than satisfactorily resolving it. In most cases, classic era stories spent the last episode (a quarter or so of the runtime) on the dangerous and often improvisatory execution of a plan while the threat was accelerating to its height. This seemed more balanced in the main.
Season 1 All the Daleks get wiped out of existence by Rose. Season 2 Everything comes out of the void/everything gets sucked into the void. Season 3 creates a paradox, then undoes the paradox. Season 4 Reality bomb never made sense.
This is the difference between one hour who and 100 minute who. A Deus ex machina can work sometimes like family of blood where it is a little less contrived, but still makes you wonder why is he doing that, "to be kind." It's certainly not kind to the companion to make her have to be a servant, but I digress. Yes the mess should not be cleaned up quite as well there need to be consequences. For instance surely the doctor and the master are not the only timelords left. What about the corsair who lost his life in the doctor's wife? All those cubes make me think there could be more Gallifreyan ex-pats good and bad.
A huge problem for modern DW - too many Deus Ex Machina and similar type endings - the worst one ever was the ending of "Power of Three" a quick wave of the sonic and all is well with the world - this was due to problems with Stephen Berkoff, but it still is a bad ending. Let's hope these things get better - but I wouldn't bet on it.
It's pretty realistic. 🤭 We went through a pandemic and harmful lockdowns and the government refuse to acknowledge that a lot of people are still messed up. It's almost as if the government's concern for the public wasn't genuine. 😬
Don't worry Tharries you don't seem like your bought off lol. You just seem rather positive about the new era which is fine, there will be plenty of time for opinions to develop further.
DW's earth bound focus is a double edged sword. It means it is accessible, that companion characters are easy for viewers to identify with. But it also means, that to maintain an earth continuity, would over time mean that DW's earth diverges from real life and so becomes less relatable. It's inevitable that at some point the writers are going to have to reach for a big Deus Ex Machina reset switch for DW's earth, every now and then. The only real alternative would be to go with lower scale stories, things which would go un-noticed. But they'd be less compelling stories.
Thing is two partners were brought back in series 9.... And fans still complained FLUX was a six parter and fans complained ....Moff had an arc spanning years fans complained ... So I just think not everything can please everything .... The most recent 4 specials have not been any good imo the three series 4 part 2 specials dumped on his first era and basically said ignore all of that THIS is how it should've ended ....now THIS is a new beginning so focus on that ...everything gets padded out with EastEnders soapy stuff and the sci fi is secondary something I didn't like in the first era and hate seeing a repeat of again .... I'm not an RTD fan I tried many if his shoes and it's a sin is the only show that he nailed ...the others I couldn't finish or were left unresolved ... Looks like season 1 is about to be more of the same 8 okay-ish episodes crammed together
As anticipated, as the dust settles the cracks begin to show themselves. All 3 60th episodes were very disappointing, people were just too caught up in the hype to admit it at the time...
I don't mind the "let it go," but they could have done it without attaching gender/sex to it. Everybody can let things go with equal proficiency. TBH, I didn't like the entire idea of Donna having to forget to save her. Ruby Road had a great ending. It's the middle that was a mess. The villains were some of the weakest of all time, and too much time was wasted in Ruby's flat. The ship evaporating wasn't a big deal-- they're MAGIC! That's why it disappeared.
how do you feel when rtd says that davros can't be a person in a wheel chair because you can't make people in wheelchairs look bad so he can be evil if he is not in a wheel chair so he is defining people by there disabilities ???
I've been saying for about 2 years that it seems Who fans (no, not Whovians, I'm not American and I never had a Tumblr) have got collective amnesia about RTD1, and that they're in for a rude awakening come the series proper. Don't get me wrong, I like RTD as a writer, persistent flaws or not. But he DOES tend to cover up sloppy endings with "something that will make people's mum's cry", and I don't like that part. I'm down with an emotional payoff, but not AT THE EXPENSE of a satisfying conclusion to the actual problem/antagonist/situation of the story. Moffat half arsed a lot of his season endings, sure (although he got better at that over time, the most egregious two being S6 and S7), but he at least tried to make them a payoff to the actual thing happening, rather than brushing over the thing happening and saying "that's done now, so before you have time to give it any thought here's how it makes these characters feel". The one ending I'm going to give RTD mad props for is Martha leaving in S3. I DON'T like the conclusion to the Master storyline, but I love that Martha leaves under her own steam, for a perfectly valid reason, and tells him to his face. That works. I think ultimately, if they're going to keep doing Buffy-esque "big bad" season arcs, I hope they shift the focus to satisfying conclusions rather than emotional ones (not that it's either/or, they can still do both, but I don't want the one RTD likes best to be prioritised so heavily at the expense of the other one), or alternatively that they just drop the big season arcs entirely and remove the problem from the equation. Obviously I'd prefer them to just end things properly. Something RTD managed to a degree that Moffat didn't REALLY get the hang of was characters dying. Not that I think names or recurring characters should die at game of thrones levels, but I think it's important that death can play a part in the show. When recurring characters were e in bad situations, under Moffat and Chibnall we the audience never really believed they were in any proper danger. That's something that has to come back, IMO.
To be honest... If you go back and look at all the RTD solo written episodes from series 1-3 in particular, almost all of his are the worst of each series. This issue is a big reason as to why.
I agree, don't like these endings that leave you kind of unsatisfied because they're too easy/convenient. Particularly for the resolution of the metacrisis in The Starbeast, with the putdown of men making it seem a bit absurd and contrived. As a woman it made me cringe a bit inside, I'm guessinga lot of men wouldn't have liked it either. I'm wondering why RTD didn't put more effort into resolving the metacrisis.
Plots are too complex for the episode lengths. "Classic Who" had 3 or 4 episode arcs that would last for 4 hours that allowed logical satisfying conclusions to stories (but you also ended up with the classic DW trope of "Bad guy captures Doctor and co and imprisons them giving them 15-20 minutes to recap/exposit" scenes to fill time)
Guy's b4 you start moaning about the show RTD did say D W will be very different from previous era's & that's what l am thinking you lot are going on about , now l myself haven't seen the episode yet as l live in Melbourne Australia so l will have to wait (I don't think it's fair that we outside of the UK have to pay for a subscription it's just not right) Having received the 60's specials last Friday, l enjoyed Parts 1 & 3 . part 2 was mind numbing boring oh l liked the super slow robot & that was it ,RTD should have done better, l know he can.
The biggest problem is the doctors a bit stupid, and he’s stupid the way very smart people tend to be. I say this for a reason my father was a super genius but when it came to certain things, he was absolutely stupid and he did them completely wrong. An example of what I mean by super genius people being stupid is the following example a group of Mensa people went out in a boat. OK they came. They return the boat to the place they borrow it from and the guy had to go all the way up to pull down the flag because they had Jerry rigged, the flag not just upside down, but they had Jerry rigged it incorrectly, there’s a right way in the wrong way to put up a sale. There’s a right way in the wrong way to put up a certain flag and they had put it badly. I’ve been the least smart in my family and I can tell you that very smart people makes stupid mistakes and I make stupid mistakes myself which my kids will tell you And I’m not a super genius. The doctor has forgotten just how easy it was for his wife River song to give up her lives to him does he really think that it would not be easy for Donna to come up with a solution to the problem in the first place, when given a possibility, it’s that’s the thing it’s assumed that he raised her mind, people really don’t understand how the brain works and if somebody who’s been studying it for very very long time memory is stored in various parts of our brain. Yes, there’s a central processor if you want to call it that that is essentially central memory, but there are other parts of the brain that retain memory too they’re the back up parts you can’t erase the entire part of a person‘s memory. There is always a section that’s going to be there, so what did he think he could do erase everything if you did that if you erased everything from .8 to point B and believe me there have been I’m using voice to text OK I am handicapped my hands do not work so understand if it did not put down .8 to point the way I wanted it to it keeps putting down eight instead of a I can’t deal with it OK I can’t fix it my point is that in order to race, all points of an area of the brain that has remembered something you have to also cut out parts of the brain that are known as associative parts of the brain. These are senses of smell, taste, hearing touch their other senses involved as well and I’m not gonna go into it because like I said the brain has these is back ups so if one part of the brain can get damaged, these backups will take over, some people think that the body has too many redundancies, and the truth is the redundancies were built into human beings because we were prone being soft beings of getting into trouble and when you have some thing that is squishy, you need some creating something that will back up the parts that aren’t working. And I see this I am what is called a some people call me a virtual quadriplegic, but the proper term is in incomplete quadriplegic when spinal specialist one of the tops in the world had a look at my scans he couldn’t believe I could walk, I can walk sometimes to walk because my wheels are damaged And I don’t know when I’m gonna be able to get new ones it means that I’m a lot like Ariel the mermaid every step is excruciating, so why can’t I have that part of my spine fixed? Why is it in operable? Well, my body built itself a secondary spine and it’s really more closely related to a scaffolding if you really wanna know the truth, but it looks like a secondary spine. It has a little outreaches where disc should be, but isn’t and these little branches that go into hold it up, or what’s keeping my spine together and doctors has no explanation as to why my body did that is also the reason why they don’t dare operate because they could kill me. I have been studying how the brain works for more than 40 years how it processes information I’ve worked with Alzheimer’s patients dementia patients in general, and I have found that we remember things not the way most people are taught that we remember things I’ve seen this with various patience I’ve had over the years before I became so injured and I know from my own injury and how parts of my brain no longer function the way they’re supposed to and how easily I lose words and there’s a whole section of my memory that I don’t remember from the time the accident bang the back of my spine and head till a few weeks ago I have problems remembering what happened and I have what used to be called a photographic memory so you can imagine how difficult it can be when your brain is telling you 404 error file not found now I could play back a movie I just seen when I said just seen saw 10or 20 years ago I could play it back as if I just seen it now since the accident like I said 404 error literally a blank space no nothing there. However, occasionally I eat some smell, something taste something anyone of these senses can trigger that memory to return and there’s a ginormous black spot in the area where your memory is supposed to be and they told me I may never remember, except they’re wrong because smells tastes I don’t mean pictures something in a picture can trigger that memory of something I’ve seen or done and it will come back as and I’ll have it back. It won’t just come back and disappear again it will be back my dementia. Patients are not that is we’re not that lucky because in their cases, most of their problem is throughout the brain however, occasionally a different part of the brain that associates with smelt or one of the other senses will trigger that memory and that’s what surprised the people I worked with they couldn’t believe that of the patient who pretty much they thought, was very far gone suddenly not only remembered me from five minutes ago, but remembered a different person who worked there from nearly a year ago not only remembered, remembered his name remember what he looked like and went into detail. The whole business with Donna just letting it go. It’s not hard to do it shouldn’t be considering like I said River, giving away her lives, and considering that people do it every day humans do it every day they forget things it’s a gift that people with a photographic memory people with what’s called a perfect memory don’t really have the pleasure of having but it’s a gift it’s a gift it’s a human gift if we remembered of every day every little detail we would go absolutely nuts so those people who like me had one of those kind of memories learned to put those memories into little boxes in our brain so that we would not remember it and it’s not always easy to forget things. Trust me when I was a kid I was told forget some thing I’d seen, and it was not easy to forget it. It took me years to forget it, and I had to be conscious of how to forget it, now I don’t have that option. I just simply forget it now I’m more than most people realize what normal is. I know that sounds weird but you’ve had a memory like that and it gets very frustrating when you’ve had a memory like that to not have it anymore I didn’t handle it either. He’s getting sloppy, I wonder how many people remember when we made the comment do you remember what happened last Christmas… The aliens they constantly causing problems yeah things would happen and they would be a huge cleanup. Not so this time it doesn’t make sense you cannot something like that so easily, I agree with you Tharries Russell T Davis is treating this whole Doctor Who sing like it’s a cartoon I can’t even call it sloppy because it’s not sloppiness. It’s a lack of care. It’s a lack of consideration for others specifically the audience, and it could be that he agrees with Disney and Disney often thinks this of its viewers that we’re stupid, stupid and non-thinking and basically idiots and Russell T Davis just think that we won’t care and it won’t matter and we will accept it. I thank you for pointing out the obvious because somebody has to.
You know what is funny? "Hardcore " fans. Currently fandom is split on three parts: LGBTQ+ fandom, All-right fandom and fans who like new episodes. LGBTQ+ fans are bitching about how there is not enough of queerness and their agenda in first episode of 15th Doctor; All-right fans are bithcing that there is too much of queerness and LGBTQ+ agenda in first episode of 15th Doctor; Fans who like new episode doesn't care about both of prior groups cuz they like show, while those groups are calling them biggots.
Very few Davies-written episodes are remembered for their plot. Even the much lauded Midnight is more of a character study based on a fantastic idea for a monster. Most of his stories lack the Doctor doing anything clever to resolve the storyline, something Moffat was (usually) much better at. Too many winning-by-pressing-buttons and convenient resets for my liking. Although Davies' episodes are always entertaining and sometimes deeply affecting (Turn Left for example), he absolutely has a problem with wrapping up his plots. On the other hand, the quality of the last four specials versus the entire Chibnall era is so much improved it makes me want to cry for joy.
RTD's Weak writing - beyond the ridiculous. He leads himself down a blind alley over and over again only do use a weak-ass 'solution'. Too busy ticking boxes for Disney's wokesheet. 4 episodes of RTD2 and 4years of Chibnall's crap proves yet again Moffat was king.
@davidallan1098 & @mrdoctorgilmore I completely agree w/ u. Tharries u make a valid point. It's like. " OMG, we've only have a 56-59 mins window 4 an episode. We gotta cram everything we've got in2 56-59 mins no matter what." I think 2-parts every now & again should be just fine. Breathe Russell, chillax. We got u.😍😎
I completely agree, I've always thought modern Who was a bit too rushed. I think two parters should be the norm so we can bring back decent cliffhangers and have room for stories to breathe.
exactly 💙
I agree 100%. I'd be happy with classic serial style too. I'd take a 5 part story.
"I've always thought modern Who was a bit too rushed. I think two parters should be the norm so we can bring back decent cliffhangers and have room for stories to breathe." I have been saying that *EXACT* same thing for years.
I'm all for this definitely.
3 parters worked well. Bring those back.
*This video is one of the reasons why I enjoy Tharries Channel.*
Yesterday was a discussion of viewing figures with actual numbers.
Today we have a video with real critical analysis...and not the wild speculation often found on some Doctor Who channels.
I would trust Tharries with my Tardis. No question.
The issue is probably more noticable bc we've now had 4 RTD stories in a row, the lack of other writers has put the spotlight on the flaws of the sole writer we had this year (keeping in mind the showrunner role and writer role is very different)
It’s a pattern I’ve noticed too. I’ve seen people criticising the end on practically every special this year
I feel the show should get an increase of runtime, even if it's just to 75 minutes it'll help with the pacing issues, as it stands the episodes seem to sacrifice the story to allow the character moments to breathe, when by all accounts it should be allowed to do both.
especialy since they decreased the number of episodes now. We used to have 14, now we only have 8 a series...
We did get 10 extra minutes in n Jodie’s era for every episode in a season
It's always been thus. I remember being so excited by Ecclestons series, and thinking all RTD needed to do is learn a bit as to how to more satisfactorily end a story.... 15 years on and I'm still waiting. Handwaving the plot is not a bug, but a feature of RTDs writing.
The fact the show prospered despite that is how we ended up with Chibnall's extreme examples of the same.
The incredible thing about series 1 is that most episodes built on each other in some way. Rift introduced by Gelth, Then the Slitheen try to use the rift, and are defeated by the heart of the tardis. Then in the finale the heart of the tardis is something established and so the ending seems more justified.
After Chibnall's infuriating level of clunk my tolerance for RTD's is still pretty high. So far the dialogue being so much more fun and organic relative to the last three series is doing it for me. I can hang for several more episodes before I begin to doubt this season's quality.
Apart from Wild Blue Yonder, which I think was a pretty great script from start to finish, I think the rest of the episodes have had problems.
More than just the endings I think their have been alot of pacing issues, some very on the nose dialogue and just other decisions I haven't like, for example the Doctor and Ruby breaking out into song, I know that worked for some people, but it felt way off to me.
Still going to stick with the show and see how series 14 goes and their have been parts of all 4 episodes I enjoyed, but ultimately so far I'm only truly happy from start to finish with 1 of the 4 episodes, which is disappointing.
It feels as if there is more story to tell and they cut a large part of it out to fit the time they have.
After I got over my shock and excitement when I heard RTD was coming back I did realise there would be the odd convenient ending. That is how I felt about the original reboot. Tharries put his finger on why it was so noticeable now, it is because these were all written by RTD without having other writer's episodes to break it up.
the giggle should have been a 2 parter .
I definitely agree
It feels like he’s trying to emulate Moffat’s more kiddy “everything’s a okay!” Lack of stakes, which is a shame . Even when he did in series 3, it still had lasting consequences, the Jones family were traumatised and Martha became a lot more hardened as a solider . Here? Donna…just remembers, no stings attached
Feels like they needed rhe stories to be ten minutes longer lr be 90 minutes long like a Sherlock story .
Wouldn’t have had him save that interviewer either.
RTD has a habit of using "magic button" plot resolutions, but those are easier for me to accept than his propensity for fairytale endings, where essentially plots are resolved by the power of sentimentality... things like... a child's wish... the power of love... and other "clap your hands if you believe in fairies" fluff. Now with magical beings overtly entering the whoniverse, with little or no justification, I suspect we will get more and more magical endings to plots. This will be hard to dial back in the writers room. It's a Pandora's box of lazy cheats. Nothing maintains dramatic weight when everything can be swept away, and undone with a magical wink.
I think the start to this era has been a bit restrictive in a way that ends up highlighting this kind of issue. Not only have we had 4 stories written only by RTD, but each one of them has been a special episode with certain "requirements" to hit for the next episodes. I don't think its a surprise that wild blue yonder feels much better in that respect, its given much more space to breathe as a story on its own.
I really like your point of view on things, About halfway into the video and this is quite nice. Good information and explained really well!
I hope Tharries can, one day, get his moon mansion. We can only dream.
The lack of jeopardy and consequences drags down the quality of episodes for me , a quite liked the church on Ruby road and love the dynamic between Ncuti and Millie already but the lack of panic and urgency in rescuing Ruby’s new foster sibling Lulubell really bugged me
So happy someone on the Facebook group recommended this guy. 🎉 He rocks and gives me more who to take part in even if there's no new episodes
I think you make a really good point. When it comes to the Star Beast, The Giggle, and Ruby Road I can understand the rushed endings more because these stories really need to focus on the characters (the new characters and those returning after a long time). I hope that Russel writes more satisfying endings for his next episodes where the characters don’t need to be highlighted as much.
Yep - totally agree on The Star Beast; I cringed at the 'Let it Go' moment and I almost expected Donna and Rose to burst into the song! There was no proper explanation as to why that was suddenly an option. It could have been connected to the splitting/sharing of the metacrisis energy between mother and daughter, but it needed a better line of justification than what we got. Russell has previously very successfully alluded to the consequences of alien action, for example in Wilfred Mott's conversation with the Doctor and Astrid explaining why London was deserted - we could do with a bit more of that sort of thing to provide realistic context. In Russell's defence, however, he is utilising the same device as used in 'Back to the Future' when a key event is reversed and order restored by history being re-written. I agree that it can be seen as a little too convenient if used too often.
To me it really feels like we are REALLY TRYING to like it. But behind doors we all know this is not the show we wanted
As an old school classic Doctor Who fan, I think it’s all about how modern media is now. They write in a way so viewers will hop channels or glance on their cell phone. Everything has to be bite sized and condensed. The TikTok generation doesn’t have the attention span. For me it’s when Doctor Who went from “Reverse the polarity of the Neutron flow” to “Timey Wimey” Nothing too taxing for the brain, poor ending …oh well on to the next.
Anyone who watched the second series of Queer as Folk knows Davies doesn’t know how to end his stories. He builds up the threat, goes way too far (the Earth disappears! Everyone becomes the master! All the roads turn to lava!) No one reins him in. Less is more, as we say. There’s more horror in something that happens to a few people few will miss (Blink) and no horror when it happens to everyone. Especially if there are no consequences.
He’s also badly in need of a script editor because he has a habit of putting lots of ‘tell, don’t show’ dialogue in people’s mouths. Watch how a great writer or director lets the audience work things out.
For example, Donna’s Rose’s past was dumped on us without any subtlety when a third draft would’ve hinted at it and had a far bigger impact. And been far less controversial because the trolls would’ve missed it.
I get the impression what we get is his first draft and not his fifth or sixth.
Every writer needs a good editor. It’s their job to say ‘this doesn’t work’, ‘rewrite that bit’. But some writers are too powerful, especially in the era of the ‘show runner’, an American import that leads to things like the way Sherlock ate itself after a promising start… it’s not an RTD thing, it’s widespread.
I enjoyed the specials and the Christmas episode but at times I was wondering why some of the dialogue was so clunky and nobody thought to say ‘people don’t talk in exposition, Russell’
It’s what happens in soaps and lesser dramas when a character says to another ‘you really like him, don’t you?’ Or ‘you’re really gonna miss him, aren’t you?’ All it takes is a look. Silence is often more powerful than words, and some writers think the word means ‘more words’ not fewer.
Other than that, I don’t really have an opinion on the matter.
The worst one was the doctor turning into the old gremlin thing and then through the power of belief he becomes himself again, floats in the air like space Jesus with an invulnerability forcefield..like wtf was that
Oh it wasn't just me then? Thought I'd taken hallucinogenics by accident@@charg1nmalaz0r51
I know he denied the allegations of being paid off, but Tharries didn’t provide any evidence he isn’t living on the moon!
P.S, great video Tharries!
I thought that the gloves were down to 3%, and thought there was going to be jeopardy to Ncuti pulling down the goblin ship?
Did I imagine that?
The Christmas invasion problem ends with a challenge to a dual, thr giggle problem ends with a challenge to a game of catch!
That’s an interesting and fair point, and, yeah, I agree. I think the weakest use of time travel in a story is to undo an outcome you didn’t like. When the goblins change history, the consequences are horrifying, as they should be. That was a great moment of terror and shock. But if that can just be undone in the next scene, it feels like my emotions are being manipulated. It’s interesting to reveal the difference Ruby’s life makes to her mum, true. But the quick undo deflates all the emotional weight, and might even leave us feeling a bit stupid for being so upset at the initial loss.
I don’t think it’s impossible to do an undo story well. But I do think you’re taking on a gnarly challenge, and you’re only going to get away with it if you use the undo attempt to impose additional consequences, or you do it to reveal something important about the flow of time to inform further stories.
I enjoyed the episode anyway. But, like you, I hope for more robust endings.
It's not helping that more mysteries are introduced without building on the one's already there. I mean sort those out first before making more.
In the 13th Doctor era...
Well... In Flux!
One of the episode has a decent cliffhanger!
A decent start to the new era. Remember Doctor who was close to being cancelled permanently during Jodie time as the doctor. At least it still going and hopefully will regain its popularity. Don't take Doctor who so seriously. See it for what it is. Just light hearted family entertainment and nothing more. It's just unreal science fiction. Just watch it and enjoy the rest of your day and don't spend your time debating a tv program. There is alot more important things in life to worry about.
I see it for what it is now. Utter trash. Doctor Who died a long time ago.
maybe they'll show the effects of the giggle in the future?
my issue with the male presenting Timelord line was that it just came out of left field and goes against pretty much every gender norm stereotype I've heard. I grew up being told women can't let go of grudges and from experience men (of being born one- I identify as non-binary nowadays) tend to suppress and ignore more often. I don't agree with the stereotypes, I'd say there's a pretty even amount of both from all ends.
I don't think the goblin kings death was an easy way, I think it was the obvious answer and I saw it coming the moment he grabbed the ladder in that scene. I'm willing to bet the ship disappearing is more indicative of their status as previously mythical beings, from outside of the universe. I don't really know what else would or should have happened to them.
All that said i do agree that overall, there are a lot of premature resolution and almost always too much crammed into a 40-60 minute episode. I agree with a lot of comments that 2 part episodes should be the norm, harkening back to classic who. My favourite episodes in NuWho are the unofficial 3 parters, like turn left/ stolen earth/ journeys end (the exception being rebel flesh/ almost people/ a good man goes to war but thats cos i hate the aesthetics of the 'gangers and kinda just the tone of these 2 part episodes)
But no one can argue that Church on Ruby Road didn't have one of the best cliffhangers in recent history! "never seen a TARDIS before?"
I still think the best bit of Whoniverse writing RTD did, wasn’t for Dr Who, it was for Torchwood: it was Children of Earth …
What you're describing my man, is what TV Tropes calls "No Ontological Inertia," where something the villain causes is reversed by their defeat.
I do agree but i think its likely that there is alot that is left on the cutting room floor because RTD seems to write in the style of introduce new world and new characters with bad stuff happening, monster reveal, doctor runs, comes up with a plan, big climax of the show and then 5 or 10 mins of aftermath or goodbyes of said event. I think depending on how big of a climax or world build that happens will completely depend on how much has to be cut down to make it fit the time slot. Like take church on ruby road as a prime example, he has the doctor save ruby as a baby and then you have 5 minutes where he goes to check on ruby, saves davina and then ruby going onto the tardis, but yet i feel like there was a scene cut out of the doctor giving ruby’s mum a number and going “call this number, its for a place called unit, tell them the doctor sent you and they sill get it all fixed” when she was saying about the flat being ruined for xmas and what supports it more is that we know it has to fit the hour time slot, but the whole doctor being snowmaned and telling the police officer his fiancée would say yes was a late edition after disney did a screen test and said it feels like you dont see the doctor for quite a while in it, where is he saving that time from? I think that is the only place where it feels like something is missing
Yes. This is RTD’s big shortcoming. He sets up these gorgeous stories with twists and turns and depth then has anticlimactic endings that leave you sort of going huh well that was kinda a let down.
I’d have preferred if Donna and Rose used the Meta Crisis energy to save the Doctor when the Toy Maker had killed 14 in the Giggle triggering the regeneration.
The BiRegeneration could be explained was due to the Toy Makers Fantasy World interfering with the traditional regeneration.
Or Donna and Rose could have used the Meta Crisis energy to repair London in the Star Beast.
The Bigeneration was literally a Timelord Myth, only possible because of the toymaker's effect on the rules of reality, so what you wrote is already half true- same way the Goblins were able to exist in reality "yes the goblin king, he's not a myth he's an actual thing". Unfortunately this is all explained a little too subtly in the specials, meaning RTD has had to reveal what some of the lore implications are in interviews and tweets and stuff
@@ivymoon5084 yeah essentially its because tennant played with the salt at the edge of existence where the walls are thin. It is what is making myth and fantasy a reality. Although i get his plot, i really wish he hadnt i dont think fantasy belongs in doctor who.
Basically, the whole thing has the feel of what you get with the third wish in all the stories you hear about three wishes tends to be… that it never happened.
They should create a spin off of the human races view of whats happening to earth while the Doctor is saving the day, each episode has a new unique main character, running and sheltering while calling for help kinda like the show “Fear The Walking Dead” and towards the end we will see the Aliens gone; everyone celebrating and a scene at the end of everyone happy back to normality after The Doctor has flew away
I just wish the show would handle this in a modern way. Most new shows are as long as they need to be. Meaning they can be 73, 55, or 81 minutes long. They aren’t tied to a television timeslot length in an era of streaming. Both the Giggle and The Star Beast did feel rushed in the 3rd act. That is absolutely a continuing problem. I don’t think we always need 2 or 3 parters to solve this problem (indeed now that we are in an 8-10 episode era that wouldn’t be the ideal solution), but just more time to allow events to land and create more depth, heighten tensions and resolve the crisis.
It's now been revealed that Disney is requesting reshoots and added shots after " test screenings " so that could explain this..
RTD has always written like this, he does know how to finish anything
Any thoughts on the cinematography? for me I find the overly glossy/cinematic look really off-putting, even a basic wide shot of the Tardis looks awful like it's not even there. Every time I rewatch series 1 I think how I would love it to still look like that. Maybe I'm old fashioned
I'm so positive and pumped for this new era, some troll accused me of being a bot, but I don't care. This fandom has been through a lot and deserves to celebrate the show being awesome again!!
That out of the way, I can see what you are saying, especially with the cracks in the Star Beast. Why write them in, if you're just going to hand wave them away, for a cool visual gag? I let it go (see what I did there?) because I loved the rest of the episode, but that part bugged me a lil.
However, RTD has NEVER bugged me the same way Moffat does, cause he screws up with villain consistency, Constantly. Be it his rubberized Daleks or his rules for the Angels, or worst of all, his misuse of the Cybermen in Dark Waters/Death in Heaven, having them stupidly taking over skeletons. How could they settle for bones when all along they've been about converting the living? Changes them from body horror cyborgs into just weird robots with a skeletal fetish, and I just hated it. I loved Missy so I did my best to overlook it, but GD it was awful, and THEN they had cyber rain make metal in coffins and I was just furious for a good while.... 🤬
Then Chibs came along and I appreciated Moffat a whole lot more. 😅
Timeless Child was horrid, Flux was bad, 2022 Specials were meh at best... we've been through a lot to keep loving this show, and it is Finally coming through for us. Well, for me at least, so I'm as happy as I've been being a Whovian in years, so I don't care if my joy outshines some other people's (often bad faith) doomsayer natures.😝
This isn't new. Look at all of RTDs original run. The finales always had this problem. The beginning and middle are pretty good though.
Agree here too
At about 2:30 in the link below, The 9th Doctor told Rose Tyler to "let go!" when she absorbed all of the time vortex energy and became the Bad Wolf...I guess the 9th Doctor was a woman to have such an epiphany?
RTD can't even get his own cannon correct I guess?
th-cam.com/video/9847_BEaLlM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tfPCWHtEFKmJjOos
I agree with most of your comments. However, I think what we are seeing here is early days. We’ve had 4 specials - and historically RTD’s early series episodes are more about setting up characters and creating a mood and atmosphere.
The other thing about neat endings is that the new era starts properly with Season 1. So it’s important not to have too much baggage left over from the 60th anniversary specials.
I also feel RTD is at his best when there are other writers contributing. Just because it creates more balance in story telling. The dream team for me is RTD as show runner with Moff contributing a story per series. I am hoping we do get a few episodes each year written by others.
The most important thing about Ruby Road is I think RTD has given us possibly the best new Doctor since David and the best new companion (in terms of audience identification) since Rose.
TL;DR: We have quite a few mystery boxes going and a surprising lack of emotionally-based dilemmas or catharsis to back it up. I'm worried that filming everything in advance has resulted in habits that can't be easily retracted, and every resolution can amount to Q & A where the A doesnt mean much and the How is contrived (14 came back to retire. Thats it. But he cant retire if 15 goes on. So... he can magically be both now. Dont think about it. Its like it never even happened anyway. Don't get me wrong I'm glad they're not treating 14 like a continuous part of the show but then also why bother?)
Absolutely; I started making reviews and this was the main thing I had issue with.
Star Beast: Rose being an inheritance was a well built to solution, and then they just 'let it go' and it retroactively made that plot line feel bizarre. Then the road uncracked and lava just went away.
Wild Blue Yonder: In a story where 14 and Donna meet people who can impersonate them, making the monsters abstract physical threats rather than social emotional threats meant that when 14 has to decide the real Donna there was no "well I know donna enough to know" or "I thought I knew Donna enough but the thing I learned was wrong" and failing to develop 14 and Donna's new relationship at the expense of monster spectacle and mystery meant 14's question, choice, and reversal, were all sort of arbitrary and felt like a cheap fake out.
The Giggle: There is a clear difference built that 14 is tired and 15 is renewed and they ALMOST justify why Gatwa can take the toymaker by surprise because the toymaker is too busy targeting 14 and thinking him a weak link which, when 14 almost drops the ball, uses to his advantage by throwing to Gatwa at the opportune moment ... but it's so choppy and again arbitrary that the toymaker just drops the ball because he does because...
I actually wasn't nearly as bothered by the goblin ship disappearing and was relieved that AT LEAST the gloves were set up prior and used in a unique and clever and proactive way... where I still think it's lacking is there's no real catharsis or character climactic decision that says anything about the characters. So Gatwa manages to impale the goblin king... did he enjoy it? Does it mean he's a strategic doctor, or was that an accident?
What does 14 realising Donna's arm is 0.08% off mean for their relationship?
What does Gatwa being able to throw harder than 14 say about the difference between their doctors?
At the end of the day, the doctor wins because they need to beat the bad guy. I feel like its an obvious given that usually even in an episodic episode, the MC has a moment of revelation and learns something about themselves and these episodes just skim over that for the sake of adventure and spectacle. Not bad, just holding it back from any kind of decent storytelling.
Endings, along with the over use and increased magically abilities of the sonic screw driver to get the characters out of danger.
NEW ANALYTICS WE NEED TO HIT LIKE 😮
6:15 I think this might happen more… because they are wanting to get into the fantasy realm of story telling.
I feel like the final line shouldn't have been "I'm the Doctor" but rather Ncuti just smiling and looking at her before it cuts to the end credits with "DOCTOR WHO" in bold letters. We know who it is, tease the audience in a cheeky way
Agreed. Midnight was Russell's best script. Doctor Who shouldnt always be about saving the whole world.
Donna's denouement wasn't easy. She first had to give birth. Then the energies could be released.
RTD has always had a tendency to write himself into a dead end, resulting in messy endings. He could so easily just remove or replace actions to avoid these consequences but he never does and just resorts to these contrived endings.
RTD gets credit for restarting DW and making a fun interesting show but Moffat took the ball and made poetry out of it. As time goes by and we see more RTD 2.0, I think we’re going to come to appreciate that Moffat was the best writer DW ever had.
I’m still hoping he comes back as a writer, it’s no coincidence the DWM poll was topped almost exclusively by his work.
Moffats era was the best, i'm not entirely sure why everyone praises tennant/RTD that much aside from the fact they were the start of it being popular
The problem with RTD, is he always has great ideas, but rarely knows how to end them, to the satisfaction of fans at least. However, I’m still grateful he is back, and is as creative as ever.
Since The Disney+ Take over it also makes me wounder what way Doctor Who is going?, Because I don't have it and have to go to a friend's house to watch the New Doctor Who and I have to admit the 60th specials could have been split into Six 2 parter's maybe?, Because it's too rushed, and feels like part of the stories are cut out, as for the Celestial Toymaker, Great Choice But needed more Game Time before splitting the Doctor, When you look at the William Heartnal story the Celestial Toymaker, he would make the Doctor and Companions play for the TARDIS, but this time he could have been behind the real reason for the 14th Doctor, as there is a lot of What The !!! moments as well.
It's been an issue with almost all modern Who, largely I think because of the condensed format of 45 minutes for most stories and what you might call "peril creep". The writers have generally seemed to be more interested in establishing and ramping up a supposedly inescapable threat than satisfactorily resolving it. In most cases, classic era stories spent the last episode (a quarter or so of the runtime) on the dangerous and often improvisatory execution of a plan while the threat was accelerating to its height. This seemed more balanced in the main.
I mean, the giggle definitely still has consequences, thats the reason 14 had to be comforted by 15, because he said "people still died down there"
"I've been enjoying the new episodes of Dr. Who" aaaaaaaand with that I'm out, bye!
Season 1 All the Daleks get wiped out of existence by Rose. Season 2 Everything comes out of the void/everything gets sucked into the void. Season 3 creates a paradox, then undoes the paradox. Season 4 Reality bomb never made sense.
This is the difference between one hour who and 100 minute who. A Deus ex machina can work sometimes like family of blood where it is a little less contrived, but still makes you wonder why is he doing that, "to be kind." It's certainly not kind to the companion to make her have to be a servant, but I digress. Yes the mess should not be cleaned up quite as well there need to be consequences. For instance surely the doctor and the master are not the only timelords left. What about the corsair who lost his life in the doctor's wife? All those cubes make me think there could be more Gallifreyan ex-pats good and bad.
A huge problem for modern DW - too many Deus Ex Machina and similar type endings - the worst one ever was the ending of "Power of Three" a quick wave of the sonic and all is well with the world - this was due to problems with Stephen Berkoff, but it still is a bad ending.
Let's hope these things get better - but I wouldn't bet on it.
It's pretty realistic. 🤭 We went through a pandemic and harmful lockdowns and the government refuse to acknowledge that a lot of people are still messed up. It's almost as if the government's concern for the public wasn't genuine. 😬
Don't worry Tharries you don't seem like your bought off lol. You just seem rather positive about the new era which is fine, there will be plenty of time for opinions to develop further.
DW's earth bound focus is a double edged sword. It means it is accessible, that companion characters are easy for viewers to identify with. But it also means, that to maintain an earth continuity, would over time mean that DW's earth diverges from real life and so becomes less relatable. It's inevitable that at some point the writers are going to have to reach for a big Deus Ex Machina reset switch for DW's earth, every now and then. The only real alternative would be to go with lower scale stories, things which would go un-noticed. But they'd be less compelling stories.
Maybe because The Doctor doesn't like endings neither does Russel????
Episodes should either be longer or revert to the old Who style of four or more episodes to a story.
Thing is two partners were brought back in series 9.... And fans still complained FLUX was a six parter and fans complained ....Moff had an arc spanning years fans complained ... So I just think not everything can please everything .... The most recent 4 specials have not been any good imo the three series 4 part 2 specials dumped on his first era and basically said ignore all of that THIS is how it should've ended ....now THIS is a new beginning so focus on that ...everything gets padded out with EastEnders soapy stuff and the sci fi is secondary something I didn't like in the first era and hate seeing a repeat of again .... I'm not an RTD fan I tried many if his shoes and it's a sin is the only show that he nailed ...the others I couldn't finish or were left unresolved ... Looks like season 1 is about to be more of the same 8 okay-ish episodes crammed together
I think that consequences are just one of the problems with Russell’s endings.
As anticipated, as the dust settles the cracks begin to show themselves. All 3 60th episodes were very disappointing, people were just too caught up in the hype to admit it at the time...
bring back multi-parters
With the reversing stuff, i think Russell has got too comfortable and its showing a little bit of laziness
I don't mind the "let it go," but they could have done it without attaching gender/sex to it. Everybody can let things go with equal proficiency. TBH, I didn't like the entire idea of Donna having to forget to save her.
Ruby Road had a great ending. It's the middle that was a mess. The villains were some of the weakest of all time, and too much time was wasted in Ruby's flat. The ship evaporating wasn't a big deal-- they're MAGIC! That's why it disappeared.
The question is how will the show truly end?
how do you feel when rtd says that davros can't be a person in a wheel chair because you can't make people in wheelchairs look bad so he can be evil if he is not in a wheel chair so he is defining people by there disabilities ???
I've been saying for about 2 years that it seems Who fans (no, not Whovians, I'm not American and I never had a Tumblr) have got collective amnesia about RTD1, and that they're in for a rude awakening come the series proper.
Don't get me wrong, I like RTD as a writer, persistent flaws or not.
But he DOES tend to cover up sloppy endings with "something that will make people's mum's cry", and I don't like that part. I'm down with an emotional payoff, but not AT THE EXPENSE of a satisfying conclusion to the actual problem/antagonist/situation of the story.
Moffat half arsed a lot of his season endings, sure (although he got better at that over time, the most egregious two being S6 and S7), but he at least tried to make them a payoff to the actual thing happening, rather than brushing over the thing happening and saying "that's done now, so before you have time to give it any thought here's how it makes these characters feel".
The one ending I'm going to give RTD mad props for is Martha leaving in S3. I DON'T like the conclusion to the Master storyline, but I love that Martha leaves under her own steam, for a perfectly valid reason, and tells him to his face. That works.
I think ultimately, if they're going to keep doing Buffy-esque "big bad" season arcs, I hope they shift the focus to satisfying conclusions rather than emotional ones (not that it's either/or, they can still do both, but I don't want the one RTD likes best to be prioritised so heavily at the expense of the other one), or alternatively that they just drop the big season arcs entirely and remove the problem from the equation. Obviously I'd prefer them to just end things properly.
Something RTD managed to a degree that Moffat didn't REALLY get the hang of was characters dying. Not that I think names or recurring characters should die at game of thrones levels, but I think it's important that death can play a part in the show. When recurring characters were e in bad situations, under Moffat and Chibnall we the audience never really believed they were in any proper danger. That's something that has to come back, IMO.
To be honest... If you go back and look at all the RTD solo written episodes from series 1-3 in particular, almost all of his are the worst of each series. This issue is a big reason as to why.
I agree, don't like these endings that leave you kind of unsatisfied because they're too easy/convenient. Particularly for the resolution of the metacrisis in The Starbeast, with the putdown of men making it seem a bit absurd and contrived. As a woman it made me cringe a bit inside, I'm guessinga lot of men wouldn't have liked it either. I'm wondering why RTD didn't put more effort into resolving the metacrisis.
I think rtd is better at drama than deep sci fi tbh
Plots are too complex for the episode lengths. "Classic Who" had 3 or 4 episode arcs that would last for 4 hours that allowed logical satisfying conclusions to stories (but you also ended up with the classic DW trope of "Bad guy captures Doctor and co and imprisons them giving them 15-20 minutes to recap/exposit" scenes to fill time)
Some would have 6,8 or more episodes like the sea devils the daleks the war games and trial of a timelord
Careful now, that sweet sweet BBC/Disney money is gonna start to dry up 😂
I hate endings.
RTD rarely lands the ending. The ending of these episodes have been particularly weak.
Doctor who has had problems since capaldis episode pilot, which a soft reboot. It’s been going down hill since then.
Guy's b4 you start moaning about the show RTD did say
D W will be very different from previous
era's & that's what
l am thinking you
lot are going on
about , now l
myself haven't
seen the episode
yet as l live in
Melbourne Australia
so l will have to wait
(I don't think it's fair
that we outside of
the UK have to pay
for a subscription
it's just not right)
Having received the
60's specials last
Friday, l enjoyed
Parts 1 & 3 .
part 2 was mind
numbing boring
oh l liked the
super slow robot
& that was it ,RTD
should have done
better, l know he can.
it had crossed my mind you just to be more objective
The biggest problem is the doctors a bit stupid, and he’s stupid the way very smart people tend to be. I say this for a reason my father was a super genius but when it came to certain things, he was absolutely stupid and he did them completely wrong. An example of what I mean by super genius people being stupid is the following example a group of Mensa people went out in a boat. OK they came. They return the boat to the place they borrow it from and the guy had to go all the way up to pull down the flag because they had Jerry rigged, the flag not just upside down, but they had Jerry rigged it incorrectly, there’s a right way in the wrong way to put up a sale. There’s a right way in the wrong way to put up a certain flag and they had put it badly. I’ve been the least smart in my family and I can tell you that very smart people makes stupid mistakes and I make stupid mistakes myself which my kids will tell you And I’m not a super genius. The doctor has forgotten just how easy it was for his wife River song to give up her lives to him does he really think that it would not be easy for Donna to come up with a solution to the problem in the first place, when given a possibility, it’s that’s the thing it’s assumed that he raised her mind, people really don’t understand how the brain works and if somebody who’s been studying it for very very long time memory is stored in various parts of our brain. Yes, there’s a central processor if you want to call it that that is essentially central memory, but there are other parts of the brain that retain memory too they’re the back up parts you can’t erase the entire part of a person‘s memory. There is always a section that’s going to be there, so what did he think he could do erase everything if you did that if you erased everything from .8 to point B and believe me there have been I’m using voice to text OK I am handicapped my hands do not work so understand if it did not put down .8 to point the way I wanted it to it keeps putting down eight instead of a I can’t deal with it OK I can’t fix it my point is that in order to race, all points of an area of the brain that has remembered something you have to also cut out parts of the brain that are known as associative parts of the brain. These are senses of smell, taste, hearing touch their other senses involved as well and I’m not gonna go into it because like I said the brain has these is back ups so if one part of the brain can get damaged, these backups will take over, some people think that the body has too many redundancies, and the truth is the redundancies were built into human beings because we were prone being soft beings of getting into trouble and when you have some thing that is squishy, you need some creating something that will back up the parts that aren’t working. And I see this I am what is called a some people call me a virtual quadriplegic, but the proper term is in incomplete quadriplegic when spinal specialist one of the tops in the world had a look at my scans he couldn’t believe I could walk, I can walk sometimes to walk because my wheels are damaged And I don’t know when I’m gonna be able to get new ones it means that I’m a lot like Ariel the mermaid every step is excruciating, so why can’t I have that part of my spine fixed? Why is it in operable? Well, my body built itself a secondary spine and it’s really more closely related to a scaffolding if you really wanna know the truth, but it looks like a secondary spine. It has a little outreaches where disc should be, but isn’t and these little branches that go into hold it up, or what’s keeping my spine together and doctors has no explanation as to why my body did that is also the reason why they don’t dare operate because they could kill me. I have been studying how the brain works for more than 40 years how it processes information I’ve worked with Alzheimer’s patients dementia patients in general, and I have found that we remember things not the way most people are taught that we remember things I’ve seen this with various patience I’ve had over the years before I became so injured and I know from my own injury and how parts of my brain no longer function the way they’re supposed to and how easily I lose words and there’s a whole section of my memory that I don’t remember from the time the accident bang the back of my spine and head till a few weeks ago I have problems remembering what happened and I have what used to be called a photographic memory so you can imagine how difficult it can be when your brain is telling you 404 error file not found now I could play back a movie I just seen when I said just seen saw 10or 20 years ago I could play it back as if I just seen it now since the accident like I said 404 error literally a blank space no nothing there. However, occasionally I eat some smell, something taste something anyone of these senses can trigger that memory to return and there’s a ginormous black spot in the area where your memory is supposed to be and they told me I may never remember, except they’re wrong because smells tastes I don’t mean pictures something in a picture can trigger that memory of something I’ve seen or done and it will come back as and I’ll have it back. It won’t just come back and disappear again it will be back my dementia. Patients are not that is we’re not that lucky because in their cases, most of their problem is throughout the brain however, occasionally a different part of the brain that associates with smelt or one of the other senses will trigger that memory and that’s what surprised the people I worked with they couldn’t believe that of the patient who pretty much they thought, was very far gone suddenly not only remembered me from five minutes ago, but remembered a different person who worked there from nearly a year ago not only remembered, remembered his name remember what he looked like and went into detail. The whole business with Donna just letting it go. It’s not hard to do it shouldn’t be considering like I said River, giving away her lives, and considering that people do it every day humans do it every day they forget things it’s a gift that people with a photographic memory people with what’s called a perfect memory don’t really have the pleasure of having but it’s a gift it’s a gift it’s a human gift if we remembered of every day every little detail we would go absolutely nuts so those people who like me had one of those kind of memories learned to put those memories into little boxes in our brain so that we would not remember it and it’s not always easy to forget things. Trust me when I was a kid I was told forget some thing I’d seen, and it was not easy to forget it. It took me years to forget it, and I had to be conscious of how to forget it, now I don’t have that option. I just simply forget it now I’m more than most people realize what normal is. I know that sounds weird but you’ve had a memory like that and it gets very frustrating when you’ve had a memory like that to not have it anymore I didn’t handle it either. He’s getting sloppy, I wonder how many people remember when we made the comment do you remember what happened last Christmas… The aliens they constantly causing problems yeah things would happen and they would be a huge cleanup. Not so this time it doesn’t make sense you cannot something like that so easily, I agree with you Tharries Russell T Davis is treating this whole Doctor Who sing like it’s a cartoon I can’t even call it sloppy because it’s not sloppiness. It’s a lack of care. It’s a lack of consideration for others specifically the audience, and it could be that he agrees with Disney and Disney often thinks this of its viewers that we’re stupid, stupid and non-thinking and basically idiots and Russell T Davis just think that we won’t care and it won’t matter and we will accept it. I thank you for pointing out the obvious because somebody has to.
You know what is funny? "Hardcore " fans. Currently fandom is split on three parts: LGBTQ+ fandom, All-right fandom and fans who like new episodes.
LGBTQ+ fans are bitching about how there is not enough of queerness and their agenda in first episode of 15th Doctor;
All-right fans are bithcing that there is too much of queerness and LGBTQ+ agenda in first episode of 15th Doctor;
Fans who like new episode doesn't care about both of prior groups cuz they like show, while those groups are calling them biggots.
Very few Davies-written episodes are remembered for their plot. Even the much lauded Midnight is more of a character study based on a fantastic idea for a monster. Most of his stories lack the Doctor doing anything clever to resolve the storyline, something Moffat was (usually) much better at. Too many winning-by-pressing-buttons and convenient resets for my liking. Although Davies' episodes are always entertaining and sometimes deeply affecting (Turn Left for example), he absolutely has a problem with wrapping up his plots. On the other hand, the quality of the last four specials versus the entire Chibnall era is so much improved it makes me want to cry for joy.
Are you gonna invite your subs here to your mansion on the moon 🎑 Tharries..? I await my invite ... ⏳ 😄💖
RTD's Weak writing - beyond the ridiculous. He leads himself down a blind alley over and over again only do use a weak-ass 'solution'. Too busy ticking boxes for Disney's wokesheet. 4 episodes of RTD2 and 4years of Chibnall's crap proves yet again Moffat was king.
Please stfu with the "woke" "box ticking" and moffat was awful at writing long plots
@davidallan1098 & @mrdoctorgilmore I completely agree w/ u. Tharries u make a valid point. It's like. " OMG, we've only have a 56-59 mins window 4 an episode. We gotta cram everything we've got in2 56-59 mins no matter what." I think 2-parts every now & again should be just fine. Breathe Russell, chillax. We got u.😍😎