Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for your openness to the discussion on the Assisted Dying Bill. It’s a deeply complex and sensitive topic, with strong arguments on both sides, and I appreciate the space for a respectful exchange of views. Arguments in Favour of the Assisted Dying Bill: Autonomy and Choice: One of the strongest arguments for the bill is the respect for personal autonomy. Many believe that terminally ill individuals, who are facing inevitable decline and suffering, should have the right to decide when and how they end their lives. This perspective is about giving people control over their final moments, allowing them to maintain dignity during a deeply difficult time. Compassion and Relief: For some, assisted dying is seen as a compassionate option. When palliative care cannot fully alleviate pain and suffering, the option of assisted dying provides a means to end unbearable suffering on one’s own terms. It’s not just about dying but about providing a chance for a more dignified and peaceful death. Public Sentiment: With the majority of the public supporting the option of assisted dying, as indicated by polls like the IPU survey (showing 65% support), there is clearly a shift in societal values. This change suggests an increasing readiness to see policies that respect individual choice in matters of life and death. Concerns and Ethical Considerations: Risk of Coercion and Abuse: One of the major concerns, especially among disability rights groups, is the potential for coercion. Vulnerable individuals might feel pressure to choose assisted dying, not because they genuinely wish to, but because they feel like a burden to their families or society. This is a particular concern when socio-economic factors such as poverty or lack of adequate support play a role. Slippery Slope Fears: The experience in other countries, like Canada, where laws have gradually expanded beyond their original intent, raises fears that the UK could follow a similar path. There, assisted dying has moved beyond terminal conditions to include cases with non-terminal conditions, which has sparked concerns about the criteria broadening too far. Moral and Religious Concerns: While I understand that you’re not as interested in engaging with religious arguments, many opponents of assisted dying ground their stance in the belief that life is inherently valuable and that suffering can have meaning. These perspectives highlight the moral complexity of legalising assisted dying, as they argue against the state’s role in sanctioning the end of life. Balancing the Issues: Given these diverse perspectives, it's crucial that any legislation is built on robust safeguards. Involvement of independent advocates, such as welfare officers, might be necessary to ensure decisions aren’t influenced by external pressures like poverty or lack of support. The debate here is not just about legal rights but about how we protect the most vulnerable in society while respecting the autonomy of those facing terminal conditions. Another great video! Sunn themockerytimes.substack.com/p/holy-hypocrisy-when-the-church-preaches
@@DrJoeLovelace I was 100% behind it but then I come across a story about a Canadian guy who couldn't afford a procedure that would cure his chronic spinal pain. Id never thought of a case where treatment exists but you still gotta choose... death not cake because you cant afford the cake. This terrified me.
In Canada and the Netherlands, you are seeing a lot of these horror stories in which doctors are verifying. With a crumbling health care and a degraded welfare system, it’s clear the state is starting to make it easier to send you out the back door.
I do have conserns with it at all in a captisalist system. One main one is that the poor might both die for the sake of saving money (which you adressed) but also that the poor might not have access to the legislation because their poverty exempts them from it. Like, most feelings are multifacited. How do you make a desision on whether someone is dying for the right reason when they are afraid of the continued pain AND afraid of the financial burden? One obviously feeds into the other, and it's hard to tell what you would do were the financial systems better. It seems an almost impossible framework to make sure the poor (and as a US citizen, poor includes middle class, as end of life care in a privitized health care system proves unaffordable for the vast majority of Americans, even those with health insurance) are able to separate out what they want for their own comfort and what they want because of economic conditions. As a bias to acknowledge, I did grow up in a very religiously-opposed community, so it's possible my discomfort at these questions is silently fueled by that, even if my actual reasoning isn't. But that's kind of my point. No matter how well reasoned someones desire to assisted suicide is, financial factors will always be subtly influencing behavior, just as it is very likely fundamentalists Christian worldviews will subtly shape mine even after having left the church.
I'll be honest and say I think my concerns sound very similar to yours, so I don't think your bias is showing. I think there are reasonable, warranted concerns that people aren't questioning, particularly those in the media class. I should also say that even though I rip on Christianity, I still share the value of human life, and I think that's a familiar feeling amongst most people. Thank you for sharing!
It seems assisted dying is needed as an option for people with terminal illnesses that drastically and irreversibly worsens their quality of life. However, I think there would need to be a very strict definition of a terminal illness and I agree with your suggestion of having a welfare officer as part of the oversight to ensure their decision isn't effected by socio-economic issues. The issue is I believe both would be 100% open using policy to encourage/force people into using assisted dying when they don't actually want to. Specifically, the rhetoric that cutting welfare spending is a necessity and Streeting's policies to use healthcare for the purpose of getting people into work rather than actually caring about their health show that they see healthcare purely as an economic tool and people only through their usefulness to the economy. Add the risk of privatisation, politicians (like Streeting) being corrupted by donors and the fact the tories will likely be even worse, suggests there's a high chance of assisted dying being abused by politicians for dire consequences if they have the opportunity. So any bill passed would have to be 100% watertight or I don't think it would be worth the risk. Although I'd need to look more into the current bill to know if it is.
I am against assisted dying it is way too dangerous, instead we should focus on loving and treating kindness to people with lives that are unbearable like being paralyzed or blind and helping them. I think we should also be putting more attention into finding cures and improving the quality of life and not just giving up and ending life.
In a rational and kind world, this would make perfect sense and I had long conversation with a late friend who died of a brain tumour about wanting to take control of her own death. That said , I also remember that the work capability assessment and esa were devised to give the sick and disabled the option of finding dignity through work… just look how well that turned out. It’s not how a benign government will use a law that matters but how a future one will… also Soylent Green could start looking like a documentary.
Before Parliament starting discussing this bill, I really thought I supported this "right" but now I am not sure. In the past, I hated that it was so natural and done without question, to put our pets and other animals to sleep as it was the "kinder" thing to do. We not only don't allow ourselves the right to death but we certainly would never talk of death in such terms about ourselves as that obviously has a very dark history. We are quite willing to put pets down over stuff like them struggling to walk which is kinda evil when you think about it, the way race horses are treated when they are no longer "useful" for that purpose is disgusting. Whatever is decided in parliament, if assisted suicide becomes legal, it needs to be scrutinised on every level and a ton of safeguards are needed. Part of me worries disabled people (and even the elderly) would be subtlety pressured in times when the economy is shit and there are talks of cuts, but on the other hand, we shouldn't be arresting people who take their terminal ill relatives to countries like Switzerland upon their return. I feel historic tragedies like genocides are always in the back of our minds when this topic is discussed, it has appeared in popular culture too where euthanasia is brought to its logical extremity. Thinking of the film Logan's Run where everyone is euthanised at just 30 years old to control population in a world with far fewer resources. It just shows how complicated this issue is. Life is sacred to me as someone who isn't religious but at the same time no one should have to endure endless pain either. How we measure "quality of life" is very hard and I think most of that falls on material grounds rather than health. There is no middle ground on this issue tbh. All I know is a capitalist system can't be trusted on something like this. Also as a separate thought, such a policy requires us to trust authority which after 14 years of Tory shit is again very hard. As for the video, I think I agree with pretty much everything you say.
And I agree with everything you say as well. I also like the fact you reference Logan’s Run. That subtle pressure is a good example. Though a few of the case studies here demonstrate that there is no active coercion, I know and many people do that money controls your life. When you don’t have it, you can feel completely trapped and that leads to thoughts of desperation. It scares me to know that these choices are being accepted in other countries, and even though the bill here is being stricter than others all it takes is a measure to expand the bill and then it will all go wrong. Thank you for discussing this with such nuance!
I have pretty mild Autism and I don't think for a second that my life is not worth living, I feel all of the difficulties in my life are not because of autism but because of lack of support from other people. People I know with severe autism also can have happy and meaningful lives too and most of these people are my friends.
I don't know about this because in the poem in BoJack horseman it is extremely thought provoking showing how everyone who commits suicide thinks it is going to be great but as they commit suicide they then regret it straight away but at that point it is too late, this poem was based off of many suicide survivors experiences so I think that is something to think about.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for your openness to the discussion on the Assisted Dying Bill. It’s a deeply complex and sensitive topic, with strong arguments on both sides, and I appreciate the space for a respectful exchange of views.
Arguments in Favour of the Assisted Dying Bill:
Autonomy and Choice: One of the strongest arguments for the bill is the respect for personal autonomy. Many believe that terminally ill individuals, who are facing inevitable decline and suffering, should have the right to decide when and how they end their lives. This perspective is about giving people control over their final moments, allowing them to maintain dignity during a deeply difficult time.
Compassion and Relief: For some, assisted dying is seen as a compassionate option. When palliative care cannot fully alleviate pain and suffering, the option of assisted dying provides a means to end unbearable suffering on one’s own terms. It’s not just about dying but about providing a chance for a more dignified and peaceful death.
Public Sentiment: With the majority of the public supporting the option of assisted dying, as indicated by polls like the IPU survey (showing 65% support), there is clearly a shift in societal values. This change suggests an increasing readiness to see policies that respect individual choice in matters of life and death.
Concerns and Ethical Considerations:
Risk of Coercion and Abuse: One of the major concerns, especially among disability rights groups, is the potential for coercion. Vulnerable individuals might feel pressure to choose assisted dying, not because they genuinely wish to, but because they feel like a burden to their families or society. This is a particular concern when socio-economic factors such as poverty or lack of adequate support play a role.
Slippery Slope Fears: The experience in other countries, like Canada, where laws have gradually expanded beyond their original intent, raises fears that the UK could follow a similar path. There, assisted dying has moved beyond terminal conditions to include cases with non-terminal conditions, which has sparked concerns about the criteria broadening too far.
Moral and Religious Concerns: While I understand that you’re not as interested in engaging with religious arguments, many opponents of assisted dying ground their stance in the belief that life is inherently valuable and that suffering can have meaning. These perspectives highlight the moral complexity of legalising assisted dying, as they argue against the state’s role in sanctioning the end of life.
Balancing the Issues: Given these diverse perspectives, it's crucial that any legislation is built on robust safeguards. Involvement of independent advocates, such as welfare officers, might be necessary to ensure decisions aren’t influenced by external pressures like poverty or lack of support. The debate here is not just about legal rights but about how we protect the most vulnerable in society while respecting the autonomy of those facing terminal conditions.
Another great video!
Sunn
themockerytimes.substack.com/p/holy-hypocrisy-when-the-church-preaches
I support it morally but with capitalism roaming round, I have concerns.
Totally agree with you.
@@DrJoeLovelace I was 100% behind it but then I come across a story about a Canadian guy who couldn't afford a procedure that would cure his chronic spinal pain. Id never thought of a case where treatment exists but you still gotta choose... death not cake because you cant afford the cake. This terrified me.
In Canada and the Netherlands, you are seeing a lot of these horror stories in which doctors are verifying. With a crumbling health care and a degraded welfare system, it’s clear the state is starting to make it easier to send you out the back door.
I do have conserns with it at all in a captisalist system. One main one is that the poor might both die for the sake of saving money (which you adressed) but also that the poor might not have access to the legislation because their poverty exempts them from it. Like, most feelings are multifacited. How do you make a desision on whether someone is dying for the right reason when they are afraid of the continued pain AND afraid of the financial burden? One obviously feeds into the other, and it's hard to tell what you would do were the financial systems better. It seems an almost impossible framework to make sure the poor (and as a US citizen, poor includes middle class, as end of life care in a privitized health care system proves unaffordable for the vast majority of Americans, even those with health insurance) are able to separate out what they want for their own comfort and what they want because of economic conditions.
As a bias to acknowledge, I did grow up in a very religiously-opposed community, so it's possible my discomfort at these questions is silently fueled by that, even if my actual reasoning isn't. But that's kind of my point. No matter how well reasoned someones desire to assisted suicide is, financial factors will always be subtly influencing behavior, just as it is very likely fundamentalists Christian worldviews will subtly shape mine even after having left the church.
I'll be honest and say I think my concerns sound very similar to yours, so I don't think your bias is showing. I think there are reasonable, warranted concerns that people aren't questioning, particularly those in the media class. I should also say that even though I rip on Christianity, I still share the value of human life, and I think that's a familiar feeling amongst most people.
Thank you for sharing!
It seems assisted dying is needed as an option for people with terminal illnesses that drastically and irreversibly worsens their quality of life. However, I think there would need to be a very strict definition of a terminal illness and I agree with your suggestion of having a welfare officer as part of the oversight to ensure their decision isn't effected by socio-economic issues.
The issue is I believe both would be 100% open using policy to encourage/force people into using assisted dying when they don't actually want to. Specifically, the rhetoric that cutting welfare spending is a necessity and Streeting's policies to use healthcare for the purpose of getting people into work rather than actually caring about their health show that they see healthcare purely as an economic tool and people only through their usefulness to the economy. Add the risk of privatisation, politicians (like Streeting) being corrupted by donors and the fact the tories will likely be even worse, suggests there's a high chance of assisted dying being abused by politicians for dire consequences if they have the opportunity.
So any bill passed would have to be 100% watertight or I don't think it would be worth the risk. Although I'd need to look more into the current bill to know if it is.
Totally agree with everything you say. It’s good to hear that I’m not alone in thinking this!
Assisted dying has its place, but what stops it becoming compulsory for the poor to save money?
That’s my concern. It has to be safeguarded and not be abused by political opportunists.
great video again! thank you for covering these topics
Thank you for watching friend!
Great video, very informative and great sourcing
Thank you very much!
I am against assisted dying it is way too dangerous, instead we should focus on loving and treating kindness to people with lives that are unbearable like being paralyzed or blind and helping them. I think we should also be putting more attention into finding cures and improving the quality of life and not just giving up and ending life.
In a rational and kind world, this would make perfect sense and I had long conversation with a late friend who died of a brain tumour about wanting to take control of her own death. That said , I also remember that the work capability assessment and esa were devised to give the sick and disabled the option of finding dignity through work… just look how well that turned out. It’s not how a benign government will use a law that matters but how a future one will… also Soylent Green could start looking like a documentary.
Love your videos 🤘
Thank you very much! Big love to yourself
Before Parliament starting discussing this bill, I really thought I supported this "right" but now I am not sure. In the past, I hated that it was so natural and done without question, to put our pets and other animals to sleep as it was the "kinder" thing to do. We not only don't allow ourselves the right to death but we certainly would never talk of death in such terms about ourselves as that obviously has a very dark history. We are quite willing to put pets down over stuff like them struggling to walk which is kinda evil when you think about it, the way race horses are treated when they are no longer "useful" for that purpose is disgusting. Whatever is decided in parliament, if assisted suicide becomes legal, it needs to be scrutinised on every level and a ton of safeguards are needed. Part of me worries disabled people (and even the elderly) would be subtlety pressured in times when the economy is shit and there are talks of cuts, but on the other hand, we shouldn't be arresting people who take their terminal ill relatives to countries like Switzerland upon their return. I feel historic tragedies like genocides are always in the back of our minds when this topic is discussed, it has appeared in popular culture too where euthanasia is brought to its logical extremity. Thinking of the film Logan's Run where everyone is euthanised at just 30 years old to control population in a world with far fewer resources. It just shows how complicated this issue is. Life is sacred to me as someone who isn't religious but at the same time no one should have to endure endless pain either. How we measure "quality of life" is very hard and I think most of that falls on material grounds rather than health. There is no middle ground on this issue tbh. All I know is a capitalist system can't be trusted on something like this. Also as a separate thought, such a policy requires us to trust authority which after 14 years of Tory shit is again very hard.
As for the video, I think I agree with pretty much everything you say.
And I agree with everything you say as well. I also like the fact you reference Logan’s Run.
That subtle pressure is a good example. Though a few of the case studies here demonstrate that there is no active coercion, I know and many people do that money controls your life. When you don’t have it, you can feel completely trapped and that leads to thoughts of desperation. It scares me to know that these choices are being accepted in other countries, and even though the bill here is being stricter than others all it takes is a measure to expand the bill and then it will all go wrong.
Thank you for discussing this with such nuance!
25:40 aged well (assisted dying being discussed on the same day)
I have pretty mild Autism and I don't think for a second that my life is not worth living, I feel all of the difficulties in my life are not because of autism but because of lack of support from other people. People I know with severe autism also can have happy and meaningful lives too and most of these people are my friends.
I don't know about this because in the poem in BoJack horseman it is extremely thought provoking showing how everyone who commits suicide thinks it is going to be great but as they commit suicide they then regret it straight away but at that point it is too late, this poem was based off of many suicide survivors experiences so I think that is something to think about.
The poem is called "The view from halfway down" I highly recommend people check it out.