Tension Between Casual and Competitive Gaming Communities
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ม.ค. 2023
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#splatoon3 #casual #competitive - บันเทิง
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Man is secretly teaching a class on how to be better humans, but contextualizing it in Splatoon because that's the only way some of us will listen
gem is just always trying to teach the young people how to ink their base if you c-
Nice comment!
its like feeding a dog a pill covered in peanut butter to trick it into eating it
Exactly
Wow that is so right. Makes me feel good to have found this channel as it should help with my current issues
The twist ending, masterful writing 10/10
True facts
I was hoping the twist ending was that Gem was actually the one who wrote that quote that he put up, when he just started playing.
I honestly think that this applies to any relationship between two people or groups
"The ethics of trickshotting." Total insanity
Ikr
What is this referring to?
@@gundle_dx When Squid School said "the ethics of trickshotting" in the first few seconds of the video. I'm not familiar with the context otherwise.
?
@@yousquiddingme I watched the video but I guess that he was referring to the deleted Twitter thread
19:42 I love how this whole section applies to life overall, beyond just competitive vs casual gaming and dating advice.
That’s honestly one of my favorite things about this channel: hidden life lessons.
this video in general, including that part, reminded me of the art community
As a kid my dad was my soccer coach from when I started playing town ball up until high school when I moved up to more competitive leagues. The team he coached and I played on consisted of boys and girls who loved the game of soccer and were just looking to play with their friends on Saturdays. Something my dad always told us was “I’m not here to make the best team in the state or anything. I just want to give you all the chance to have fun, so that someday you’ll want to share the joy of soccer with your kids like I am with you.” I took it for granted as a kid but looking back it’s really important to cultivate a genuine love for something in new members of a community if you want them to stay. At the end of the day splatoon is a game, and games are meant to be played for our enjoyment, and they are better when played with other people! So no matter competitive or casual, if we want to expand our community we should make sure that we welcome new people; we don’t need to coddle them, we don’t need to demolish them. If we show them how much fun there is to glean from playing splatoon, or any game/sport/activity for that matter, they’ll want to come back. And in coming back they’ll get better and provide more challenge to those of us veteran players. Everyone benefits from making the community a better place.
Sounds like you had an amazing father.
damn.... your dad was a true hero. :,) teach you well!
Ultimately, this wouldn't be an argument if Nintendo could fix their damn matchmaking! Pitting B rankers with S+ rankers is fun for NO ONE!
Fact. As a B who’s been up to an A+ in previous games, I verbally apologize to the S+ if they are on my team and I expect to lose if they’re on the enemy team.
Sure there’s a massive skill gap within the S+ ranks, but for a person to even reach S+ at all means that they have put more time into Splatoon than me and they are probably more skilled.
@@Rageball28
I can't even get mad at any of the players anymore. I just roll my eyes and say "WHY NINTENDO?!"😂 I also remember what it was like to be in the earlier ranks, and it absolutely sucks being matched with players outside of your bracket. It sucks, it's not fun, and you guys deserve better; WE ALL deserve better!
is there proof that that actually happens?
@@UmbraVivens94 it happens. im only s but ive had a rankers on my team in ranked before. while its not concrete you can usually tell by what rank badge they have on their splashtag. (also, while not as drastic, im CONSTANTLY put in full s+ lobbies, and while i can function, its not exactly fair is it?)
just bring back glicco numbers and this would all be fixed.
@@UmbraVivens94 I was B+ and I played with people who had the S+ badge before the new season started. At the time they would’ve had to be S+ because there was no way to lower your rank.
I liked the quote "Let them be curious, and let the curiosity bring them back" at 7:56
Tbh as long as you're not being outwardly mean, new players will learn and get the gist. We all lose sometimes.
Agreed, or if you’re me you go on multi day losing streaks
Casual players know that their opponents are trying to win!
I mean, yes, there's definitely a lot of frustration aimed at "jeez these people just spawn camped us the whole game" and it's thrown at the actual players sometimes, but at the end of the day, I _still_ think that the players understand.
Except Kiver, for some reason. Must feel pretty good about himself every day.
@@Iinneus yeah, when he brought up the spawn camping thing my first reaction was "its pretty annoying" but also thought there's nothing else for the enemy team to do and its not that hard to push them back
I tried entering a smash tournament when the Wii u version was still new. I had that negative experience of the first group that Gem mentioned. I got styled-on by a few of the players there who were showing off to their friends, I felt like an outsider. It was a pretty negative experience all around and I walked away just feeling like the community is a bunch of a-holes. Which makes me sad because I still like watching certain streamers for that game.
Do you still play anything related to Smash? That's fucked up they did that to a new player
hey I feel you... I was like that on rocket league. call me crazy but when I become a pro.. I changed for the worse. I stopped, coz I felt bad that I was treating them that way. I learned a lesson. after 2 years I got back, and welcomed my team, and not in a comp way, but in a friendly way.
I'd say going easy on a less experienced player and challenging them to improve are not incompatible. You can beat a new player and punish mistakes without using 100% of your power. There's a reason difficulty curves tend to seek a sweet spot, as too little will get you nowhere but too much is just overwhelming.
The one I saw on Twitter most was a clam blitz game where a 4-stack got 30-40 kills each without knocking the other team out. Calling that out is not "telling them to go easy on the other team." It's just pointing out that it's a dick move. You've proven you're better than the other team. Just win and let them play against someone else.
fr ppl who choose not to knockout so they can spawncamp are so fucking annoying
That's usually a sign that they can't play objective 😂
Take a shot every time something in life requires not jumping to two extremes and having balance
Or as I like to call it: speedrunning liver failure
@@christiancasaverdepertica1802 On the next GDQ, LiquorMeTimbers will get cirrhosis in less than 48 minutes.
it's just the fundementals of almost everything, it's crazy how some people keep forgetting that
This also applies to splatoon because if you jump every time your shooting you'll get mass amounts of aim rng, miss all your shots, eat shit, AND die. (No perma death tho)
as a casual player, i would not like people going easy on me intentionally, but i also get frustrated when i keep losing no matter what i try. I mean really i just wanna play only against people that are relatively in the same skill level as i.
Getting good at multiplayer games is so confusing to me because when i win, i never know if its because i was good, because my team was good, or because the other team was bad. I never feel like im learning because theres not really anything that i can consistently do that consistently results in more wins, it just kind of seems like regardless what i do, sometimes i have a win streak and i feel great, and then i have a loosing streak and i feel awful.
Thats honestly part of why i barely play anything besides salmon run, because in salmon run i actually know what i can do to become better, and i can actually feel myself get a lot better in a noticable way and reasonable amount of time, whereas with other gamemodes i have always just been floating around in an uncertaintly of am i decent or am i bad, and is that something you can even measure?
If any competitive player knows about this please let me know, because i really would love to play more gamemodes besides just salmon run, but the way it is right now its just not as fun..
I'm not really at the level of a competitive player but I've been playing a while so maybe this will be helpful. Gem often mentions that you learn to see the game before you learn to get good at it (or something like that, I forget his exact formulation). It's a skill that needs to be developed and I wouldn't worry that you don't know why you win or lose a match right away, as long as you are trying to understand. More clarity will come with experience. Also one of the aspect of PvP games to keep in mind is that it's natural for tactics to have variability in effectiveness because you are going up against other humans who are always looking for counterplays for any particular strategy. If you are mindful about it, the more you play, the better you will be at seeing why a particular strategy worked or failed in that specific situation, and maybe what you could have done in that encounter that might have made a difference.
The other thing I would add is that C rank is *very* generous when it comes to points. You only need one win in series to break even and in open you can lose 8 games and win only 1. It's designed for new players who are still trying to understand the game. So, while I know losing a lot of matches sucks (I don't like it even when I'm fooling around with a new weapon in turf war), it's important to try to give yourself the leeway to fail as long as you are gaining experience.
Easiest way to measure your progress is to take a video of your games now and then later compare them to your current gameplay to see what you’ve improved in and what you still need to work on
Start watching replays of your matches if you're unsure why the outcome of the game, or any interaction for that matter, came out the way that it did. Win or lose, you can observe and analyze what you, your teammates, and your opponents did and use that knowledge to form strategies that help you win or avoid costly mistakes. Like someone else mentioned, being able to pick apart a given moment of the game to single out what's important is hard and takes a lot of experience, so there's no shame in having a more skilled player help you with reviewing matches
Aiming and performing the objective/s are skills, true, but the ability to self-reflect or evaluate your own progress is a different skill.
You can totally measure your own contribution independent of match stats. Here's some quick and dirty things you can check that vary per role (that I borrowed from Squid School role videos):
1. Skirmisher role - Did I have low deaths?
2. Slayer - Did I lower my team's deaths?
3. Support - Did I have a high turf contribution? / Did I ink areas relevant to the objective?
4. Anchor role - Was the enemy ignoring me because I wasn't hitting shots, or did I successfully force them to avoid my sight radius?
I almost exclusively play Turf and one thing i like to do with newbies is just hitting them with 1 or 2 warning shots and leave them a second to figure out if they really want to keep walking forward or back off.
If they keep wandering forward aimlessly, they gone. If they back off or pressure me with subs before going in, congrats, you did not die instantly and used your head!
A really good video on the subject, which puts a lot of my feelings on the subject into words in a better way than I would have been able to find on my own.
One thing that's a bit more Splatoon-specific is the Splatfests. I've noticed that the comp-vs-casual debate tends to flare during and after Splatfests, and I don't think that's an accident.
The calculus is a bit different here for a few reasons:
- In Splatoon more than most other shooters, there's a very strong expectation that the majority of players AREN'T in communication with each other. Running into a comp team that's clearly coordinating over Discord becomes a double disadvantage, because not only are they mechanically better, they can work together in a way that you can't with your randoms.
- If I had to question one thing about the video, it'd be the inherent assumption of building a competitive community, retaining interested players while keeping mindsets strong... all that stuff is completely legitimate, but I think a lot of the time, the battle is really happening between those in (or prospective towards) the competitive (or at least competitively-minded) community, and a distinct community: those who've already eschewed the former, but still enjoy the game as a fun pastime without caring much about working hard to improve. In most games, and indeed most of the time in Splatoon, these communities simply self-segregate (ie into Turf War and the ranked modes), but in Splatfests, everyone is forced together. Worse, the Open and Pro categories are misleadingly labeled; it's in Open that the coordinated teams will be playing, while Pro is solo queue only.
- Splatfests are genuinely meant to be a casual environment. There aren't real-world stakes like a competitive tournament, it's a friendly match in a festive atmosphere. It's a community event.
In the specific context of Splatfests, I do think it's more sportsmanlike for comp players to hold back in some way. Personally, I think the best way to do that is to just not team up with other comp players, because that's a lot more organic than purposely playing worse at the individual level. It feels more like just leveling the playing field, instead of throwing. From the casual standpoint, it probably feels fairer to lose because a single cracked player happened to show up and carried the enemy team, rather than three hopeless minutes against four cracked AND coordinated players shutting down any approach.
Turf war is my casual gamemode, anarchy is where I go when I want to play more competitively but splatfests have been anything but casual in splatoon 3, partly since all the high skilled players get released into it, so even when I'm really trying I can get stomped. It's kind of a shame because this is my first splatoon game and I was always told how fun splatfests were in splatoon 2 but I've been finding it hard to actually enjoy them so far
splatfests are not casual. by definition, they are a competition to see which team wins. just because you dont take it seriously doesnt mean that many people dont
@@Jexcii splatfests feel overall worse than splatoon 2’s splatfests. I don’t think dividing the players into 3 groups is doing any favors this time around.
There needs to be a better Open mode matchmaking system, to account for the comm advantage, but also to separate casual friends playing together from comp teams. Maybe do like League and have a team rating system.
I personally mostly play Pro mode, because (1) I like the rating-based matchmaking instead of the win-streak-based nonsense, and (2) I have no friends.
Pro works similar to anarchy series where you’re only allowed to queue solo. Whereas anarchy open and turf war and splatfest opens allowed teamed groups. They aren’t reversed, they’ve always worked like that.
Anyway, splatfests are a competition, always have been, always will be. Splatoon is just a competitive game. In this case, people try their hardest to work for their team to win the whole thing. People are rewarded for winning x100 and x333 battles. The game never implies you should go easy during a splatfest, it’s actually the opposite.
As someone who got into competitive Splatoon a few months ago, I made the assumption that I wouldn't be dunking on people out of the gate, the opposite if anything. I joined the community because I liked the game and wanted to be challenged by stronger players. Going easy on people would defeat the whole purpose of playing competitively. This is why LUTI is composed of Divisions, so that you'll be able to play teams at a similar skill level than you. Even in casual settings, the goal is still to win. Just because you don't want to spend thousands of hours developing the skillset to be "good" at the game doesn't change that fact. This is why the Glicko system exists within the game itself. So that you'll be matched up with players of a similar skill level. Sometimes you just want to play a few games of Splatoon. I get that. I don't play chess nearly as much as I used to, but I still try my best and learn from my mistakes.
At the end of the day, nobody likes losing, but what's the point of winning if you didn't do it fighting tooth and nail?
Dopamine
I’m new on splatton and I don’t know if that system works correctly but I feel I get matchup with higher ranks than me, I play about 20 - 30 matches a day and I lose about 80-90% of the time and most times is one sided and to make it worse the times I’m wining someone gets disconnected and the match ends
@@wilpalkia Game has a lot of Splatoon 1 and 2 vets. Some of them didn't get the game during launch, some of them had breaks, some play casually but are very skilled at the game. There's a lot of people in the game that already know the ins and outs while you're new and possibly have teammates that are new as well. Best thing you can do is focus on learning the game. Learning mechanics and how to improve. If you're going to lose, then the best you can do with that loss is learn from it. It's a difficult thing and we don't like losing, but it will help you win your future games.
>This is why the Glicko system exists within the game itself. So that you'll be matched up with players of a similar skill level.
I wish. Instead I just get matched against 2550+ top 500 players and proceed to get dunked on while I'm at barely more than 2000
@@Zehmaskedman dang, I’m at -1200 and already did my reset lol
well said thoughts about the current casual vs comp divide in the platoon community lately. it makes me sad how antagonistic the two big sides have become.
my personal two cents as a casual new player who only plays turf war besides salmon run is that if you're not having fun, you can always walk away. its ok to take breaks, even long ones. I've been a fan since the first trailer for splatoon in 2015 but splatoon 3 has been my first game physically. I've learned a lot but its inevitable that there are many players just objectively better than me. its good to know that everytime you play, you slowly get better and won't always suck this bad but its also good to know that if you're not enjoying yourself, just stop, only play when you're determined to actually get better and not out of obligation.
for the meantime, I throw myself in salmon run, a mode I'm objectively good in. maybe in a year's time I can have true fun in turf war and maybe even ranked but for now, I play modes I actually am having fun in, something I would suggest for others aswell.
I really dislike the entitlement people come into this game with, expecting to be handed wins because they paid for the product. Honestly, the game just probably isn’t a good match if you can’t respect other people’s time and dedication. Somehow this mindset has been bred into the community and the larger gaming industry as a whole, where more and more objectively garbage games feed off of short term dopamine spikes. Splatoon is one of the last AAA games that does not do this.
i don't play the game, but i do play a ripoff of it on roblox, and i always take breaks after 5 matches at most
im probably not gonna play it until theres a bug fix though (my favorite weapon won't fire until i die sometimes)
Instructions unclear I accidentally became a better person with a healthier mindset and view on life
Funny enough with that last comment, my gf and I had a bit of an argument earlier today. She was frustrated that I didn't seem to be talking as much and that she was pushing the conversations these past few days. I was frustrated because I had been trying to start conversations, but I would be doing other things at the same time or she would be. We called and both expressed those frustrations calmly, and we were on the same page in less than 5 minutes. It's crazy how a change in your mindset for dealing with conflict/roadblocks in a video game can change your approach to life, too
16:47, that comment is wild to me. I have my quick jump shoes on almost at all times, regardless of my gear because I know I'm not a fighter. I will happily jump out of a 1v1, because I'm not the best player equipped to handle it. I'm good at distracting, annoying, and _painting._ Not fighting someone on the field. It is wild to me how someone will see this self-preservative tactic to keep yourself on the field as frustrating because it means _they_ can't take you off of the field themselves.
Fr. I always Super Jump back to spawn if I get stuck or find myself in a bad position.
YOU'RE AN ENGLISH TEACHER? that's so cool and it makes so much sense with how well-written your scripts are
Wow, i had no idea these two worlds even existed, but I could see some parallels from both sides in my own life as I interact with my friends who play splatoon. Very insightful, would reccomend.
I feel this mainly falls on Nintendo and their match making system. Right now, it feels like the wild west on what kind of opponents you'll fight.
Yeah.
I'm more often than not in the "casual" department, trying to find a way into more involved/competitive communities. I really resonate with both the "Getting bombarded with information" and "getting mocked for getting a question wrong" points because- yes. absolutely. Many communities just kinda...expect everyone to know everything, and if they dont, theyre either used as a punchline or people try and sum it up as quickly as possible to get them up to speed. Both of these just make me feel more isolated from the communities, which sucks, cause I wanna do things like hit EVP in salmon run or play a complex campaign of D&D. I'm just not there yet and the fact that people expect me to magically know is...scary, honestly. Like I have to study ahead of time just for the opportunity to communicate with these people.
I'm slowly getting better, but in the meantime I feel like I'm missing out. It's put me in a deadlock of wanting to improve but being too scared to ask for help.
In english class, I was the kid who was mocked for getting a question wrong. So this makes me feel better about things. Thank you.
I’ve been there. It sometimes feels pretty scary to ask for help and risk feeling like I’m stupid or something.
Gem: *gives any social behavior advice relating to treating people with respect, willingness to adapt your mindset, and setting boundaries to improve multiple parties' experiences*
Viewers: ...
Gem: These fundamental ideas on how to socially interact also extend to romance, another category of social interaction
Viewers: !!!!!
On spawn camping in turf war, I find myself not getting terribly frustrated by it when I know its happening because there is simply nowhere else to paint. I do however, get very frustrated by it when an opponent is in my teams spawn within the first 10-30 seconds of the match
A different perspective. . .not all weapons paint well. A lot of people use turf to try out a new weapon, especially if they are thinking of taking it into ranked and at the very least will rush and contest mid or go looking for fights to see how they can handle the weapon.
@@hallaloth3112 I will clarify that when I am saying opponents are showing up that quickly to the other teams spawn, I am meaning they are completely skipping mid to go into their opposing team's spawn. I main splat brella which basically paints nothing, and I do go straight into mid, but I focus on taking or holding onto mid until the rest of my team arrives, and not just painting a straight line through mid to get to the other teams spawn. I understand wanting to see how a weapon performs in pvp, but I dont think you need to beeline to the enemies spawn at the very start of the match to do it.
@@endthyworldAh, fair enough. I do agree with that.
this is exactly why i hate playing against inkbrush users. almost all the ones i've played against does this exact thing, sometimes for the whole match, and it's just not fun. it's even worse when there's more than one on a team
Yeah, timing is incredibly important. Ink your base first and try for mid, don't go to another base right out the damn gate.
I always ink enough so I can get my first special up. That's what people should be doing in turf.
Only tangentially related but what I really don't get is fan communities that generate casual vs competitive play arguments for games where those streams don't even really cross. I've always found this divide for Pokemon for example to be so manufactured and confusing. I think it's just another angle of people wanting to argue and find some way to roast the other rather than encourage growth and cooperation.
Thanks for the video, this kind of discussion really needs to be had.
If you enter a competition, there's an expectation that everyone is going to perform the best of their ability. When I ran track, I would be forced to lap people because there's no where else to go. Similarly I've been lapped by people much faster than me. But whats generally not ok is gloating that you lapped someone whos just clearly seeded in the wrong race.
The same is true in Splatoon, competitive or solo queue. The individual should not be responsible for a systems matchmaking, nor the happiness of the player on the other end when it comes to winning or losing or spawn camping or going 30/1.
We have a responsibility to be decent of course. Not squidbagging or other BM is a good threshold. But personally, I feel that going easy and intentionally throwing is not the way, and if anything is condescending.
7:20 This is something *so* many people do not understand when they start giving advice. Not just in games, but in *everything*.
I'll go to a friend who's been playing a game for a long time and ask for advice and they'll drop 30 techniques and 45 terms I've never heard before and just be like "yeah, just learn all of it." I'm definitely guilty of this when teaching people computer science, too; there's just *so much* to learn for someone starting out, it's hard to pick what few things they should focus on.
That's what makes a good coach/teacher, though: the ability to figure out what one or two things someone should focus on and tell them to learn *that* specifically.
Thanks for addressing the situation between comp., and casual players, and also their strengths, and weaknesses.
As someone who likes to play Splatoon casually, and have the most fun out of it, it always infuriates me having to deal with random competitive players from time, to time during turf war. Whenever I play the game for a few minutes, or first start playing the game at the start of my day, I’ll always end up going against competitive players every now, and then, and eventually get overwhelmed, and always lose to them, even when I do eventually try my best to adapt to their skill level, even though Kim not a competitive person myself. When this goes on for a whole map rotation, or two, I would not have as much fun as I do before as I did playing the game casually. The spawn camping gets out of hand, and even if we have the team setup to counter, they still find ways to wipe out our team, and still camp us out, until the match is over, or until the entire team DCs. Having to deal with competitive players, while trying to stay as a casual player in a game mode made for casual play, especially for newcomers, gets exhausting, and also doesn’t help much for my mentality. I do have to eventually do something else to prevent further stress upon myself, and not end up like (certain Splatoon rage streamer who I shall not name).
Once I build up a more stable mental state, I should take this as a grain of salt, and learn my past mistakes, and learn to adapt more, as I can’t stay casual forever, even if I want to, and also learn my strengths, and weaknesses having to adapt to both spectrums of skill levels.
Also, I wasn’t expecting that ending XD
I don't mean this to be snide or aggressive, but given that genuine tournament-oriented competitive players primarily play high-level ranked and make up less than 2% of the playerbase, if you are exclusively playing turf war and manage to encounter these players in every play session within two map rotations, it's unlikely that you're actually encountering many of them. Much like how people treat players with japanese names, putting competitive players on this sort of pedestal isn't constructive to identifying areas you could improve on to overcome tactics and situations that consistently work against you.
Is there a relationship between enemy skill and time you're playing? For me in EU there's definitely a difference between afternoon and 8pm+ and the matchmaking will take a frustrating long time to adjust. Then the next day afternoon I'll stomp the enemies bc my rating tanked in comparison to theirs.
+1000. Well put, as usual. I also play tabletop games where this concern exists in a seemingly much less problematic way. I wonder how big a role anonymity plays in this pattern.
Definitely a big one. I've experienced toxic online rivalries move from online to in-person. Bystanders sit down and pull out the popcorn so to speak only to see them go from over the top trash talk to meek, defensive, almost apologetic snoozefests.
Tbh I feel like I'm somewhere between casual and competitive, I'm always trying to learn how to best optimize play for my main weapon (bloblobber, but I'm also not quite comfortable with playing the more competitive modes.
When I first started in 2 I was really nervous stepping into ranked as well. . . Honestly, just jumping into it and having fun makes them easier? Starting rank at least is filled with new ranked players still learning how the objective works and, unless someone deranked or is just starting, most players don't have a lot of experience in the modes to pull off the level of play you would expect in rank if you watch competitive play. I found Splat Zones an easier place to start since its 'tiny turf war' essentially and after that I slowly dipped my toes into the other modes. I still hate Clam Blitz but decided to finally stop avoiding it and actually get better. Rainmaker and Tower are a blast with a halfway decent team even when it never gets out of mid.
@@hallaloth3112 I think I tried ranked in splatoon 2, the main reason I'm not playing ranked in 3 is because I'm not a competitive type of person. I probably could do well if I tried, but I don't really feel much of a difference between winning and losing, so I'm not sure if I would even try to win.
@@krocodile55 that's fair, Splatoon is probably the only game I actually get competitive over. I just find ranked a nice change over turf wars sometimes and find it fun to see if I've improved at all.
@@krocodile55 if nothing else, turf war is the worst gamemode in the game. "ranked" is a misnomer imo, since even casual players will play ranked modes too. All the fun objective-based modes are in ranked, and i think you should give it a try
@@waffles245 yeah! I'm a casual player but I play ranked, mostly because I just find the modes way more fun! (apart from clam blitz. screw clam blitz) and I don't play clam blitz! I'm not trying to get up to new ranks, I'm C- and I'm happy having fun! Being competititve sounds fun, but I'd never be able to take that stress
Proper skill based matchmaking would fix this entire argument
In official games sure but not in open tournaments
"SBMM" is a different can of worms I won't get into what people have said on the internet about it but let's just say it's not universally liked... XD
@@malcovich_games People can complain all they want, but it's easy to show that they're wrong just by pointing to what happens when S3 fails to do it properly here.
how i long for the days of individually hosted servers like in tf2 or old counter strike. whether it be a competitive room, casual room, or even just a goof around room. everyone was happy and able to a fitting place
@@paperseagull4297 Yeah it's kinda sad we don't have dedicated servers yet!
All we got is join the discords and schedule a private battle with similar skilled players...
Personally, I feel like the argument from the non-competitive/"coddle" side is more centered around casual play. I don't think they mean people should throw the game. Rather that people shouldn't ruthlessly or mockingly destroy them.
My stance is that people should play how they feel they should. I like to give players I know are new or bad a chance to do something before I inevitably destroy them anyway. I don't feel good dominating a group of people that could barely play the game. Also, trying to harden them may be a good thing if they intend to invest themselves into the real competitive side of the game. But if someone's just playing casually, they don't likely care to learn that. They just want to have fun.
11:35
Thank you for making this point, it is very easy to get this twisted in my experience.
Ideally, you have newer players play against newer players of a similar skill level so they can learn in an environment where they're most likely to learn well. People learn a game best when they're playing against people of about the same skill level (the ideal situation is slightly better than you but for all practical purposes, 'about the same' is what can be maintained). Which as a casual player with very little interest in transitioning to competitive... As far as I can tell the Splatoon competitive scene already does that? The sheer volume of leagues in... Is it LUTI? That's seeded via a large online tournament before each season? No, from the outside looking in the problem Splatoon's competitive scene has is a lack of broadcasting competitive games beyond the stream, at least in a way that's easy to find. You get players with a platform posting their tournaments, but you don't seem to get the tournaments posting their games complete with the commentary, and without that, you don't get people stumbling across the competitive scene nearly as easily.
Let's put it this way - I don't think competitive NES Tetris would have grown as big as it is atm without CTWC preserving the Twitch streams of the tournament, complete with commentary and interviews, via their youtube channel. Although more specifically for NES Tetris there's also the very specific Boom Tetris For Jeff meme video (complete with explosions to illustrate some of the booms and zooms on player's necks for the phrase 'neck and neck') that got Joseph Saelee into the game who did ridiculously well in his first tournament leading to an influx of new, younger, players to the scene, which has exploded the highest level of play as new techniques have been developed due to these new players with fresh ideas and has made the meta completely unrecognizable compared to just five years ago.
(And, yeah, I've pointed out the problem with spawn camping when discussing how the inadequacies of S3's map designs hurts the casual side of the game when people suggest that the bad map design is to make the game more approachable to casual players - You win turf war by controlling mid, on many of the maps, at least in turf war, you control mid by moving slightly past it and locking your opponents in their spawn region - Hammerhead Bridge is particularly bad for that since it's not only good strategy but _there's literally nothing else to do on that map in turfwar_ - Hammerhead Bridge turfwar is either a 3 minute long fight in mid, or one side gets spawnlocked and denied access to anywhere beyond their long corridor to mid, because there's nothing else to do on that map in turfwar. It's early S2 Starfish Mainstage all over again, but worse. Flanks out of mid at least give a team that's happening to a means of sneaking past the side with 66% of the map. Make the map too open and it can be a struggle to do the sneak side of that plan - My one problem with Mako Mart - but that's a better problem to have than 'there is one route out of spawn, if the enemy team takes mid they can park in a way to make leaving spawn impossible). And, as you say, in the more competitive modes, at least the game _ends_ if a team isn't able to rally together and pull off a play (which they have more capacity to do than casual players) to get out of the situation rather than having up to two minutes of it.)
This whole thing is just good advice for life in general.
People learn best when they feel welcome, are being honestly told where they can improve, but the advice is being given for their sake and not at their expense.
Excellent video, and one that I particularly needed. Even if I don't consider myself a skilled player, and lack a lot of tournament experience, I love playing games competively and want to share that experience with my friends. Overcoming a daunting challenge in games is exhilarating, and learning the skills needed to do so can be just as fun. Even something as basic as using snatchers to your advantage in Salmon Run, memorizing Tetris openers, or performing a training mode combo in fighting games provides a sense of accomplishment once learned and applied.
Unfortunately, I don't think I'm very good at cultivating competitive culture among my less skilled friends. It's hard for me to try encourage someone to keep playing or teach them new skills without also overwhelming them (or even properly communicate the information) both in game and out, and I'll admit that the whole "playing to dominate others" mentality does slip through the cracks occasionally. One of my friends stopped playing Aerospray because I talked bad about the weapon so much she thought I'd think less of them as a person for playing it. Even if it resulted in her trying new weapons, I felt really bad and it made me realize how much more I need to work on communication. This video has given me a lot to think about on where my mentality came from and how to better spread the competitive spirit. I've only been to one Splatoon tournament and had a great time, so I can't speak too much on the toxic positivity discussion, but I believe the community as a whole will benefit from this video too
Phenomenal video honestly. While I'm still a giga casual with no intention to ever play remotely competitively, and only ever touches ranked modes when I'm not in the mood for Salmon and bored of Turf, seeing this makes me feel a little bit better. Plus, whenever I'm having a bad day in turf, it's nice to see from your gameplay that yes, over in ranked, it also seems to be quite hellish too! All of those explosions and specials going off constantly would stress me out, so mad respect for putting up with it, and seeing someone as up there as you dying to bombs the same way I do is kind of humanising almost.
Today though, I did have a disconnected teammate, and, having resigned myself to defeat, simply took up my Splatana, against enemies I normally struggle against, and emptied my mind, and simply desired to fight them to the bitter end for my own sense of honour, or something vaguely samurai sounding idk using this weapon is just like that. In the end, we won by a 51.3%, without a teammate for about half the game, and after fighting with nothing but a love for battle in my heart, I saw I had 13 kills, and 2 deaths, the best I'd done all day.
I'm not sure what the point of that story was. But I guess one takeaway from all of this, is that if you're going to play, find what you love in the game, and play to do that. Whether it's out of a love of competition, becoming the most skilled, the highest ranked, having the most fun, the silliest player, or simply for a love of the fight, play for you, and what you like. Because in the end, no on can take that away from you.
Until a disconnect happens, at least. ;)
The part with "beating anyone else gets me to play longer" still applies today.
Many fighting games(especially the anime style fg) focus on that power fantasy with insane long combos. If you're at the receiving end, you don't play the game. You spend 80% of the match in hit stun, waiting for your health bar to finally reach zero. Even if you want to improve, you're waiting way to long to even get a second chance to try better.
This gets even more insane when we look at tournaments: There is no"paying back into it" You lose, you go home. Maybe you can try next month if you're lucky. Depending on the event, you might not even have options for freeplay, because all setups are required to get the tournament done before tomorrow morning...
I like competing with others, even if I'm not interested to optimize every possible part, I like the games for letting me express myself in unique way. But I had to realize that many communities simply don't care. The FGC is incredibly proud on their "difficulty" and gatekeep anyone who can't do a 20 step combo with 5 frame perfect inputs. Team games like Valorant, LoL and Overwatch are so toxic that I really like that splatoon has no way of communication with randoms.
Besides Splatoon, only TCGs are currently enjoyable for me. But even my favorite TCG, being Yugioh, developed also into a way that one player tries to lock out the other player from even trying. Because the game is so explosive that you will die if you let the opponent play for 5 seconds.
I want to play all these games. I come back every time. And after 1hour I regret that I gave in and trusted the game to be about "having fun".
As Sid Mier, creator of the civilization games, said: "Players will optimize the fun out of the game."
Also fighting game players too, are willing to answer your question about what you did wrong or how to avoid situations. Of course not everyone will answer your question (like in every competitive environment), but overall the majority is willing to help and have a interest that the community grow. You can find online alot of informations (TH-cam, Redit, Discord) what characters want to do or how to fight against them, but this is a problem of fighting games, it is only online out in the community, not in the game itself. Other way to improve, like in Splatoon 3, watch your replays and think about your mistakes or better use training mode. Try to find your opponents move that hit you, put it on a dummy and test your options against it (high/low block, different specials or normal attacks, movement options, etc.). Also you can find general information how to improve in fighting games. On TH-cam for example Sajam (FG commentator), he talks alot about that stuff or he try new fighting games and talk about his thoughts about characters or mechanics. Or Core-A-Gaming that have great video about how fighting games work.
The only fighting games I know where you can easily be 80% of time in hit stun are team based with assists, like Skullgirls, MvC, Dragon Ball FighterZ or Power Ranger Battle for the Grid, which of them can even have TODs (touch of death).
I got in the same situation like you, but I know that I got surprised from attacks that are overheads, lows or even "random" throws (random like: I did not expected). It's like in Splatoon using a charger in open field only standing still, just to get surprised how easily they rush down you. Acknowledge mistakes and learn from it.
I know my mistake and I miss knowledge about enemy moves, but I don't put enough effort in it to learn from it. I still love fighting games (except platform fighters), it's my favourite genre, but the biggest gatekeeping came from the games itself, most games did not give enogh options or information to learn from your mistakes. Closing the game and dive deep down the internet to get your answers is rough, one of many reasons alot of players drop fighting games. Even the few gatekeeper players are the smallest problem of fighting games.
@@GamesAndAnimes First, thanks for the long answer.
I know there are resources. But its hard to go into the grind when the time you spend isn't enjoyable. The amount of work I need is sometimes way beyond what I can do without sacrificing something else. And even then, I'm likely still not "good", I'm just no longer a punching bag that can't defend itself.
I play way too many games, so I can't become THAT good in one of them. I'm quite happy about how good I am in Splatoon, reaching X rank back in Splatoon2 and now in 3 as well.
The main game that I meant was Fighterz. I don't play it myself, but I know someone who is really into it and he showed me some top level tournament finals or something like that. For me, it looked like a zero to death combo and when I asked him if it was one, he meant there where 2 50/50 scenarios where he simply choose wrong.
Fighting games really lack something to get casuals involved. Solo content is rare and I don't know if there is any solo mode that is remotely close to smash bros. Street Fighter 6 looks promising from the trailers...
And some lack a decent only mode(Smash). Some games just get dropped by the devs and left to die(pokken).
Smash had 20 balance patches and nothing changed.(you can look up tier lists from all versions and the only characters that dropped are the ones that got pushed out by the broken dlc chars+maybe 3 characters where the players evolved since release). And a somewhat balanced game is quite important for me. Or at least a game where the devs TRY to balance...
There is so much that devs could improve:
-Them Fightn Herds has a good story mode with special enemies that teach you to deal with projectile zoners, high/low mixup etc.
-visual representation of stuff like "plus on block". I'm not learning a freakn periodic table for 30 characters, just to know if its finally my turn or not. At least some games put that stuff in the training room. Now I just need to replay like 800 moves one by one...heard there is a tekken game that had the frame data as paid dlc XD
gets only worse when you get systems like the drive system from Street fighter 6 that also messes with the exact numbers...
-character focused tutorials
-gg strive has the gatling system. It allows you to cancel some moves into others based on the 5 buttons. Which ones cancel into what? Is it universal or character specific? The game tells you it EXISTS. That it.
@@MrNovascar Well, I am in the same situation my backlog will survive me, but not without a fight. 😉
I play Splatoon mainly at saturday afternoon, during the week only when I am on holiday. Fighting games should get sunday afternoon, which was a former Splatoon time too. So I will win tournaments too, but I enjoy and love both and so I take my time for both kind of games.
In Splatoon 2 and 3 I am in X too, but I have not enogh time to get to S+10 and have a good X power, I wish I could do both.
FighterZ is crazy fast (and I would not say it is a typical anime fighter like BlazBlue, Guilty Gear or Arcana Heart), but you have in every fighting game those 50/50 situation (even in Smash, like hanging from ledge and then ... attack or roll or jump or other options; same concept). Also you have to block a lot in FighterZ, even more in comparison to other games.
Missing solo content is one of the reasons FG fails for casuals and every player wish more (the casuals to have something to do and the pro to get more players into the genre). Even me at my "casual" times ignored KoF 13, because it has only the "default" FG modes (Arcade, VS, Trails, Training).
The are a only a couple of games, that did more.
SoulCalibur series has in some games, like in 2, a weapon master mode, with some extra parameters, like poison weapons and so or you could unlock different weapons for every fighter, even useless fun weapons or even the broken SoulEdge and SoulCalibur variation for the fighter.
SoulCalibur 3 and one Mortal Kombat game had a K/Conquest mode, one Mortal Kombat had even a puzzle and racing game in it.
Tekken 3 & 4 had some kind Beat'em Up mode. Tekken 3 and Tekken Tag 2 (WiiU-Version) have Tekken-Ball and in Tekken 7 they added a Bowling game in.
Triple K.O. (podcast her on TH-cam and other places) have a episode about that stuff ("Single Player Content in Fighting Games").
But to be honest, even Smash had most of the time only a ok single player content, but still more then others.
Street Fighter 6 World mode sounds so far good and even had with extrem battles a casual online mode.
I too hope for more single player content in the future, not only a Story, just more goofy things. But FG have the same problem like Beat'em Up, they were big in the arcades and those concepts and content were only portet to the home consoles and nothing more. And because both are only a nice today, they get not much interesting in it.
For the balanced games it is so a thing. Splatoon is and was never balanced too and will never happened. The same with fighting games. The characters are different from each other and with that have different pros and cons. Smash Ultimate is even with his huge roster relatively balanced. If you want a perfect balanced game, then play Karate Champ from 1984 or Street Fighter 1. There is only 1 character and with that perfectly balanced and boring, because it has only one character. There is a reason why mirror matches are not very hype to watch, so we got variation with different pros and cons and balance issues.
And by the way Pokken got a lot of changes, starts in the Arcade where it got some more characters with the time, got a WiiU port, got a Switch port with every character that got added to the Arcade + Decidueye and a daily mission mode and 2 DLC character packs and even some balance patches. It had it time, of course I could wish for more too, because Pokken is my favourite fighting game even a successor would be great, but I am happy that I could find easy people to play with, which is not typically for a FG on the Switch.
If other Devs could do the same what Them Fightn Herds did, that would be great, I loved that too. Merging story with teaching of concepts of fighting games together. But a couple of games today had visualisation of advantage and disadvantage, but only in training mode which I think is ok, but maybe could be optional if you play offline like in a arcade mode with randome characters to fight. Also Tekken 7 was the one with the framedata DLC and of course was not seen well.
Character tutorials is realy rare, but there are a couple, liken Them Fightn Herds, Skullgirls, GG Strive have at least descriptions of the specials for what they are good for (I don't have the game, so I don't know more details). But I think for new FG it will be included. With the Fighting Game Roundtable we saw they talk with each other and they have a target to get new player in. It's even one reason why Street Fighter 6 get 3 input methods Classic (6 button fighter), Modern (something like the cool dead indie FG Blade Strangers) and dynamic (did cool stuff by just mashing 1 button).
Another thing what some games did, like Melty Blood Type Lumina, is showing the attributes of moves. E.g. when a move gives armore or has i-frames at the start of the move.
I did not get it what your problem is with the drive system of SF6? Messing with frame data sounds like canceling, with is a concept old as Street Fighter 2. Beside it has it's own resource, so you could not use it all the time and for different things.
Also the Gatling System is exactly that for example combo from a punch into a slash into a heavy slash. The Gatling System is a Guilty Gear mechanic and what I heared was in older games not so strict like in Strive and is something old fans dislike in Strive. Anime fighters use something similar and is known as "Chain Combo". In those games you have Light Attack (A) Medium Attack (B) Heavy Attack (C) and Unique/Drive/WhatEver Attack (D). You can just type ABC and have a combo or even AABBC. They are just normal attacks which cancel easy in each other, after that, depends on the, you try to use D or cancel your C attack into a special move, easy good damage and is fun to use.😁
But it is a thing in fighting games to experiments with characters, moves and mechanics to explore and find things. Of course you can search for it online too, some player enjoy just using the training mode to practice and find combos and even never play against someone else. And it is fun to discover something for oneself or even see the posibilities what a combo can do, even if it only looks cool and did not much damage. One of the things I love about the genre. I can say I found my own combos with Sceptile in Pokken.🤩
@@GamesAndAnimes the thing with the drive system: if you do a drive rush and attack, your move is suddenly 4 frames faster on block. So a - 3 move would be +1. And if you in burn out your moves get additional - 4.
My point with the gatling system is purely that the game doesn't tell you. It wants you to go into training mode and try out every possible combination to figure out how the flowchart actually looks like.
Honestly, such a great video! As someone who is in the middle grey area between casual and competitive, I've definitely noticed both mindsets being triggered even within my own thinking within my own experiences just playing Anarchy and X battles. You mentioned it briefly when talking about turf but I think a big part (if not the biggest factor) of the "conflict" is Nintendo. PB aside, there's not really a consistent way to purely play against people your level let alone "casually" since people's freshness/rank/X power holds so little actual weight in matchmaking. Like my gf tried playing Splatoon the other day. She did the tutorial and then jumped into turf war on a brand new account and instantly got matched with S+ players playing on weapons they 5*'d. She might be the unluckiest person in the Splatoon but I doubt she's the first or last person that Nintendo basically set up for instant failure
Gem, you are such a gem. I’ve been playing Splatoon 3 since it came out (my first Splatoon game). I watch all your videos and every time I apply your advice it helps me improve. I’m currently trying to rank up out of B and I’m having lots of fun. Thanks for all your videos and humor and everything ☺️
This is a really good video, and it’s this kind of outlook that’s important pretty much everywhere in life. Thanks for making this 🎉
really great vid! happy that you're clearly putting your tutoring experience towards actual social issues within these communities
Honestly love this channel so much because, it’s helps me beyond just splatoon. A lot of the advice shared applies to life as well
gem back at it again with another gem of a video. wish i had had someone to teach me this twenty years ago
Not only is this dating advice, but life advice. Thank you Gem, this helped me out today.
Gem I will never be nice to brand new players is a standard welcoming
I really appreciate the way you express and explain yourself! Long time player here who is looking to get more into the competitive scene. Thanks for all the information and input. You are a charming person and I enjoy your content.
Thank you for this video it really helped me mentally.
I was struggling trying to find that mid ground between hard core competition and just pure casual play.
And your tips on how to react to those situations really helped.
Also congratulations on your collaboration with IGN!
I'm definitely a casual dater, not competitive; for me, dating is like playing Pooh Sticks.
I really appreciate these videos... as someone who comes in and out of splatoon, you are great at challenging my thoughts towards competitive gaming in ALL games i play. i subbed for the splatoon but stayed for the life lessons
Thanks for the video about this ^^
Coming to this video from completely different gaming communities and seeing so many things that would help me be a more conscientious player
I always appreciate your outlook on competitive play. It’s very informative & helpful, but chill & community-oriented
As much as I'd love to be the casual player who rants about comp teams using comms in turf war, I agree the more pressing matter is getting both sides to come to some sort of mutual agreement. The ;ast thing I want for Splatoon is for it to form the kind of mentality prevalent in another game I love: Dead by Daylight. Oh for the love of Judd, you'll be hard-pressed to find a more entitled, "My side good your side bad", volatile playerbase. What started as a silly little asymm 4v1 has turned into this unheathily aggressive ideology of, like you said "owning them". I hear it every day, "I'm not responsible for them having fun" used as an excuse to justify always trying to make the game as miserable as possible for the other side, as if that's the only way to have fun. There is no back-and-forth, no sense of give and take; one side must be completely destroying the other. The result is an endgame chat where it's normal to see slurs, threats and even actual doxxing and DDOS attacks because one side didn't play to the others' preference. It's a community that, almost in its own right, has no merit, because it's dedicated to purposely driving people away-- it's basically eating itself, and everyone is so ingrained into this mentality that to admit they could be part of the problem at all is incomprehensible. "Well if they didn't play like that then I wouldn't have to play like this" It's circular logic that has no end, all to justify misplaced pride in a video game.
Definitely went on a tagent there, but it's the best example I can think of when the extreme mentalities you talked about go unchecked.
insightful as always, gem! thanks for your consistent wisdom
gem explaining melee is terrifying lol
i wasnna try playing it more but it really is insane to get into with all the movement tech there is, especially all at once
Great vid Gem! Ultimately, I still stand by my personal philosophy and approach to games with new players - if it’s their first ever Turf War, I don’t spawncamp them. But if they’ve got a different weapon, clothing, splashtag - I will play how I normally do because I want to improve myself.
This is a lesson on the basics of good sportsmanship something that unfortunately a lot of people lack in competitive communities.
fantastic video Gem!
I kind of sort of had this moment with my nephew in Splatoon 3, as a skilled player who had to play with and against an unskilled player. When he first asked me to play with him, it was online and with other people and he did not too bad. Then one weekend when the whole family was together, he wanted to play. The problem was that the online connection at the time was garbage so we could only 1v1... and it went about as well as one could imagine. Then my family told me to take weapons that were weaker or not as good but I had to stop them and say "the issue isn't the weapons, the difference in skill level." Yes he can play shooters like Fortnite and OG Halo fairly well, but his skill level in Splatoon is quite low against me (Level 36 Rank S at the time of writing). Thus I made the simple suggestion to play and finish the campaign so he can learn the main mechanics better, get a feeling for the different weapons, and improve his skills that can transfer over to the multiplayer. It's actually what I suggested for him to do in Smash too, as playing against me is just not fun for either of us (especially when he starts playing with trash talking in mind only to end depressed he never won a match), but learning the character he likes in an environment he can control can help him learn. Unfortunately I have no idea if that worked because, like his father, he is a social butterfly and he struggles with doing anything on his own and that includes having fun on his own.
At the end of the day I think it all comes down to everyone learning at different rates like how in school you'll have some subjects you pick up immediately while others confuse you. In a similar vain, people take to positive and negative reinforcement differently depending on who it is. I for one like it when people don't hold back on me in competitive games since it shows me how far I need to go to catch up and gives me a great sense of satisfaction when I do but I know some people who will just shut down if they get trounced and it can be demotivating for them to even continue.
i'm kinda taking this information and applying it to valorant aswell. learning splatoon and valorant at the same time is probably not a good idea per se but its interesting to take some of these ideas and think of them in terms of the other game. great video :D
in case anyone cares im a C rank splat/flingza main and an iron 2 sage/skye main lmao. im not super talented but im enjoying myself :D
Sandbagging is its own skill to develop that's genuinely pretty difficult, and one that I don't think anyone should feel obligated to do. In a fighting game I may just switch to a secondary or end my combos halfway, but I'm still gonna run circles around you at neutral because I honestly don't know how not to.
Hi casual player here! I play video games often, but not competitively. I'm not a highly competitive person, nor do I have the time or energy to dedicate that much of myself to a game (very impressive that other people do this though). I'm just playing to enjoy myself and relax for a while. In fact, this is the reason why EVERYONE plays. This being said, I feel like people forget to practice good sportsmanship! Sure it's a competitive shooter, *but aren't we all playing together?* It's not that players shouldn't be able to flex their best moves. Not at all! But maybe we shouldn't do things like endlessly spawn kill the opposing team. If you think that your actions could ruin your fun, or someone else's fun, then that's probably going too far. Everyone should be able to enjoy their free time playing!
18:21 ok but ur kinda right about zoomers. We kinda grew up to glorify being right and being "on top" and that being wrong is the worst thing that can happen to a person... Its embarrassing because I just roasted the shit out of someone relentlessly yesterday...
A friend of mine recently got into Splatoon. He loved the game so much he managed to get to S rank within a week of getting the game and clocked in over 70 hours that first week. (He did slow down on playing as he started his full time job the week after so he's been playing less). But that first week he would message me asking to play together, for tips on his weapon, how to play game modes better, and overall be a good Splatoon player. At first I struggled with what to tell him because I wanted him to enjoy the game and not be overwhelmed by everything, but then he eventually reached out on his own and watched a few Squid School videos brought up some things he noticed to me and asked me questions. I let him guide the converstation, I let him figure out what he wanted to know, and It let me to not overwhelm him with information because he was asking for it. He had the passion to learn the game and get better and it helped me teach him more about the game at a pace we both enjoyed
Look, if my Salmon Run lobbies stop getting Disbanded by Turf/Ranked "Maps and Modes updated!" - By Deleting Turf and Ranked
That would be Acceptable to me
Everyone needs to see this video. Many communities really should take your advice.
To add to the conclusion: while problem solving is the goal, one must also be aware that sometimes, it is not the time for problem solving, but rather emotionally dealing with it first and then think about the problem with a more rested head. It's perfectly fine to be angry, upset or sad about the outcome of a match or a situation in general on the moment it happens, take the time to calm down or, if you're on the other end, be patient and listen. Then, you'll discuss :)
In any sort of game when I play family and friends for the first time and don’t know the game , I try my best to give basic tips and use weapons I DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY. This helps a lot with being able to not hold back but also not destroying them because of using a weapon I can’t use at the full potential and just using the game knowledge to play, which helps a lot. But I will say them just playing and having fun is one of the top priorities so don’t over explain stuff in a game and just put it in 5 words or less ( if you can’t explain it in 5 words or less try to condense it down as much as you can to only main points ) .
tuft war spawn camping is crazy frustrating but at the end of the day i know that. thats just how the round went. they got control and kept it from us and that's just how it works lmao
This advice applies to pretty much all discourse
Honestly best video youve made imo
This is a really good video. Damn
i'm officially Someone Who Got Splatoon For Christmas (age 20. not 8) and i Also live in australia so... i got the game a good day before most of the other newbies. the difference between the first day i played when i got the game and the day after (christmas in the us) was kind of insane... definitely felt like people were trying to dunk on the children or whatever way more. not really much time or space to learn how to play the game when you're locked in spawn within like 30 seconds...
that being said, i did just end up playing tableturf and hero mode for a couple of days and it went back to normal. i've had a pretty good time since. probably helps that i played a lot of overwatch (casually) a few years back, kind of feel like there's definitely a Casual Mindset one can develop where like, as much as you will get frustrated at the game sometimes, in the end you know you're just playing around for fun, yknow? and i feel like a lot of people i see that get mad about stuff in the game Around do not really. have that sort of mindset. even if they aren't even trying to play competitively. there are so many little things you can do to switch up the experience so that you don't just get stuck getting frustrated. if all else fails and you're frustrated with the very nature of humanity, there are some pretty solid singleplayer things you can do.
While I don't tolerate spawn camping outside of the "well I've inked everything else, where else do I go?" scenario, I think that being spawn camped is weirdly enough a great learning experience for newer players. The reason why most players die so easily is because they become so desperate to get out of spawn that they get tunnel vision and rush into the camper and die. They instead have to stop and think, strategize, and then be careful to kill them, which almost always works. It's sort of like a condensed mini version of a huge lesson you need to learn throughout playing Splatoon
(Also, if you're reading this, DON'T take this as an invitation to spawn camp new players! It's a bad thing to do outside of the scenario mentioned above! Don't become a jerk because of me lol)
You can absolutely be too unrelenting against players, and spawn camping is one of the ways. I always feel a little guilty when I don't encounter much of a fight or it's a complete sweep; I realize they're likely young/new players, and we coldly showed no mercy and gave them no chance. Losing that harshly as a new player is pretty upsetting, I remember the feeling well. It was a harsh lesson. Splatoon, maybe not so ironically, is like boot camp.
The amount of times I've completely turned around a game where we were being camped where we were loosing like alot.. by just by going down the little path off to the side instead ...
I'm a person who tends to find myself stuck in the middle, and I can see all of these points reflected in my own experience. Like you said, the best solution is definitely not to go easy on them, but don't "flex on the newbies" either. Just play how you normally would, and then give them advice to try to help them improve. Great video!
Well said on spawn camping being a natural consequence of good play in turfwar.
This is actually why I use a separate label for the actively malicious variety in this game; spawn *rushing.*
A spawn *rush* is when right out the gate, they go DIRECTLY to your side to try and box you in, BEFORE trying to ink their side of the map.
Those situations show their priority is *specifically* to stop you from playing first and foremost. THOSE are the kinds of players I detest.
Regular spawncamps, even ones I'm on the losing side of, I generally congradulate as they just played extremely well that match and pushed us back until we were stuck, they didn't actively cut us off in the first *20 seconds of the match*
I never knew you like Melee. Melee is my main competitive game too and I knew there was something familiar about the way you break down games! Melee mind right here
I've never seen a more naked confession of intent than a comment about wanting a face to face 1v1 coming from a charger main.
Gem your vids continue to be a wealth of information and greatly appreciated.
As a mid 30s trans Latina that grew up in the 90s your description of arcade and gaming culture in those days is spot on. I remember spending hours at my local arcades playing fighting games and trying so desperately to compete with the big boys as it were. Only to be stomped and ridiculed for my gaming ability and overt queerness. It felt like even within my own hobbies I was an outsider. I left the scene as soon as I got gifted my SNES in 95 cause it was just so unwelcoming at times. Especially as a deeply closeted queer kid in the South. I even gave a Melee tournament a go in HS but ran into a similarly unfriendly and cliquish environment.
Splatoon is actually my first and only shooter game I've played and I've really fallen in love with it and the community that's grown around it. The only reason I even gave this genre of video games a chance was cause I heard of how overall inclusive and welcoming the Splatoon community was. Now I cannot wait to dive in deeper and finally try out the competitive scene!
Keep up the great work Gem & don't stop splatting y'all!
Gross
Thank you for this important message! I’m in the limbo between comp and casual and don’t like this big divide between the two camps! Hoping the message gets to the right people :p
Solid points there, and I quite agree in general. Though I'd like to add a distinction that was either overlooked or unclear. All of this applies cleanly to the ranked modes, but I feel like there's a different dynamic in Turf War. I play Turf specifically when I don't want to get competitive; when I wanna just chill out and have fun. And I feel the game does a fairly good job of highlighting that yes, this is the mode to do that. And in that situation, there are certain behaviours that do frustrate me.
Spawn-camping is a pretty good example to illustrate my point. In Anarchy, I might get a bit frustrated with spawn-camping, but I understand that it comes with the territory. Hell, won't hesitate to engage in the practice myself. But in Turf? I'm just looking to have fun, and I don't want to mode-switch into competitive brain just to escape a frustrating situation. I feel strong enough about this that I will actively disengage if I notice my team is pushing too close, to allow my opponents to gain a numbers advantage. Because again - I treat Turf as an explicitly casual mode, and I want everyone to have a good time above all.
this is my first splatoon game and despite being really bad at it, i stick around because i've come to love this game so much. i've improved quite a bit since i first started but i still have so much to learn. i'm excited about getting better even if i end up losing a lot. i still have a lot of fun no matter what
This scenario reminded me that I've experienced similar situations in the past. For instance, I like Age of Empires 2 even if I'm not that great at the game. I once tried getting into ranked mode, not even true competitive or professional. I had experiences where games were close, I had experiences where I beat the other player quite convincingly but I'd still show respect to them, not doing any flex plays or calling gg without them having said it first. I feel like those are basic aspects of respecting the other player. However, I then had a couple of games where the other player was clearly better than me, and they decided to constantly trashtalk me and flex on me, trying to humiliate me. It ended up making me not want to play the game in ranked mode anymore because it just cemented into my head the idea that the community wasn't that great, and I'm not exactly looking to get into a scene where I'm going to get those experiences from time to time when I can just play something else, a game with a better community, and not get clubbed by someone while I'm just trying to have fun in my free time.
So yes, it's really weird when people get anchored to one extreme or the other in situations like these and end up going nowhere, making the whole situation worse as a result.
I work as a resident physician in a field that's generally thought to have a lot of "nice" people. And to a degree, that is very true. Everyone in my community is very kind and accepting.
The problem is that it can make it very challenging to learn and grow, because nobody wants to hurt anyone's feelings with constructive criticism. The best you will get is a tiny nitpick. And that's frustrating.
I know I'm comparing real life to a video game, but it's true and real. People who do offer criticism too often are toxic, and people who aren't toxic too often fear giving criticism. But that is ultimately how we learn and grow.
Ive played fighting games since i was 7 or 8 till i turned 17 when no one played them with me anymore and my only opponents were online because the ppl i knew in person felt that i “was too good” even though i didnt feel like it.
That’s when i just got ready for splatoon 3’s release by returning to 2. I wont hold back and i wont go too hard on new players cause i know how hard it can be sometimes and the last thing i wanna do is deter someone from playing the game
Something that happened to me is I was playing turf war to warm up for ranked, and everybody on my team disconnected, so me and the 4 people on the opposing team just kinda had a squid party at mid, squid bagging, spinning in circles, it was fun. And they were doing it to, becuase they knew I would just die in a 1 v 4 situation
This happens to me with almost every single gaming community I try to join, if I'm being honest. In my family, I'm the oldest cousin (only counting those who live in the same state) and we all play games. I'm seen as the most experienced one and the one that can easily get into any game and become great at it very quickly. I'm a competitive person and can learn new stuff pretty fast. But so much gatekeeping, so much toxicity, and coupled with not having many friends (I only have 1, and they don't play all the games I do) to play with, I don't usually stay in a game long enough to reach high ranks. I quickly adapt to learn new game sense in games, and rarely struggle in the game knowledge department. However, I never really stick around to sharpen my mechanical skills or end up becoming too overwhelmed to care about improving the mechanical skill because I struggle to just enjoy playing the game, even if it's one I'm really into. I do have high hopes for this game, though. I think this game might be the one for me. Just hope it's not a repeat.
I love the video but I never knew u were a teacher, most mind blowing thing in the video
I would like a boost to a disadvantaged team...
don’t know if this is relevant but i absolutely despise how sweaty turf war is now, it’s supposed to be a mode where you try new weapons or grind gear/money but competitive players play in teams of 3 or 4 while vc’ing and tryharding, makes me miss splatoon 2 in a way
At least it's not as bad as TacoBot, who will give death threats to casual players for picking bad weapons for fun... While simultaneously doing the same to experienced players picking the objectively best weapons because, "It takes no skill".
Great video
Frankly I'm just Impressed you have time for teaching English, being good at competitive gaming and making videos, damn.
I dunno if he still teaches but impressive to have such a wide skill set nonetheless
I don't lol, haven't been in the IRL classroom for a couple years now. Making videos like this takes far too long to be able to do both.
@@SquidSchool Oh dang, didn't know. I was thinking how wild it would be to juggle all that work! But that teaching background now makes considering these informative videos.
As someone who doesn’t really care to be the best and can’t really learn well in action anyhow, I don’t mind that much if I lose by a massive margin. It happens sometimes, I just think ‘oh these were very skilled players’ and move on. If I get a bunch of those back to back I’ll just come back later when maybe different people are on or something. All I play is turf and I didn’t even notice anything like ‘spawn camping’ because it just makes sense for them to be there if everything else is covered. I think most the map designs allow a lot of options to force your opponents away from that area anyways if none of your team can take any of them out so it at least doesn’t get boring even if they are too skilled to win against
I just say: people can play how they want, it’s not that big of a deal in a game where you can’t actually communicate with each other. How is anyone supposed to know if people are trying to be disrespectful or not...?
7:10 IM DEAD ...not the 45 minute explanation 😭😭😭 that girl HATED you
Gem, thanks for making this video, I was having this exact conversation yesterday and this just came at the perfect time. I was always team 'git gud' but you've given me a lot to think about as someone who crossed over into Splatoon 3 from the FGC and obviously have some biases from that side of gaming. Great takes.