A love & hate relationship - The story of Cyclone balance in StarCraft 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- The story of mech playstyle - • MECH IT HAPPEN - The h...
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Timecodes:
00:00 intro
00:13 Cyclone in Beta
04:10 First Cyclone rework
06:16 Second Cyclone rework
07:37 Third Cyclone rework
Sources:
1. Cyclone in Beta showmatches - • The power of Cyclones ...
2. Cyclone Trailer - • Legacy of the Void - M...
3. Mass Cyclone from Maru - • Maru's 40+ MASS CYCLON...
4. PiG analysis of Dark vs Innovation game with cyclones - • How to Defend Hellbat ...
5. Cyclone push Elazer vs Special - • SpeCial vs Elazer TvZ ...
6. TY vs Innovation cyclones - • INnoVation vs TY TvT -...
7. TY vs Stats cyclone plays - • TY vs Stats TvP - Grou...
8. Special vs SoO gameplay - • soO vs SpeCial ZvT - G...
9. Serral vs HeroMarine cyclones WCS 2019 - • Serral vs HeRoMaRinE Z...
10. SpeCial's 100+ CYCLONES vs Elazer! (StarCraft 2) - • SpeCial's 100+ CYCLONE...
11. Is the NEW CYCLONE Broken? Bad? Lets find out! | Starcraft 2 - • Is the NEW CYCLONE Bro...
12. NEW Cyclone CLAPS With The Right Style | StarCraft 2 | Kelazhur - • NEW Cyclone CLAPS With...
13. Clem's INSANE MICRO vs MaxPax! (StarCraft 2) - • Clem's INSANE MICRO vs... - เกม
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Timecodes:
00:00 intro
00:13 Cyclone in Beta
04:10 First Cyclone rework
06:16 Second Cyclone rework
07:37 Third Cyclone rework
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I love the Cyclone, to me the unit right now works as an Anti Cheese unit for Stargate or weird Proxies (instead of going for fast Viking/Widow Mine) and works well with Hellions or even alone as a Mech centered army for scout/harass but not really well on big engagements (depending the enemy composition tho). It also works as the Sniper of the Mech army vs some massive units
Remember the big ultras 1:25 😢
I'm kind of surprised Gumiho wasn't mentioned, because as Artosis and Tasteless point out, the Cyclone is the Gumiho unit. Like, when you think Cyclone, you think Gumiho!
Also, love his mech against Protoss in 2018 where he used that 2nd iteration of Cyclone to beat two Protoss (Classic and Dear). Rather, he used mech to beat them in Neon Violet Square, but yeah.
They decided to give the cyclone the same mechanic as carriers (extended leash range for kiting) but also made the unit fast and you can't do anything to reduce its damage (while you can kill interceptors). I do wonder why this unit is such a mess to balance...
4.7.1 cyclones are my favourite as well. They made TvT so fun. Strong way to deter drops, BCs and rushes plus they were tanky enough to do the proper mass cyclone meming. I'd say the current cyclone is bit like viking, strong against its intended targets but bursts into flames way too easy. I guess balance council succeeded in one aspect, it combos well with hellions and banshees so there's a midgame composition that works decently on some maps.
Feels like Akrij should have gotten an honorable mention in this video, that build of his was a gamechanger.
Great video once more! Also want to commend you on your English; in your earliest videos you were sometimes hard to follow (I'm also non native), whereas now your English is perfect
They just need to bring back the Goliaths
xD
Why? SC2 terran had inaccessible, strong anti-air options.
- Vikings: You'll have to spend more on doing Air upgrades, even though air is not your main build
- Thor: Too expensive and slow to be effective despite being powerful, air units would simply avoid them through high mobility
- Cyclone: Requires lock-on gimmick, which most casual players don't bother
- Goliath: Versatile and fairly priced, with a mediocre ground attack and a strong anti-air attack. It's just right.
@@razorback9999ablegiven marines are all the anti air you need 90% of the time........
in itself, kampf mech looks interesting.
But with Cyclone I have the feeling they are trying to build a marine mech.
does Terran really need a second hit-run combo? even with the feeling "stutter steps too heavy for you"? thanks to "lock on" you only need move command.
Currently Cyclone is too larm for me personally. Terran gets a safe early game card without committing, because no more tech lab.
I really don't like Cyclones. For me this unit looks like it is conflicting with a lot of things. First of all, if they wanted good AA to terran, they should have just bring back Goliath. If they want kiting unit, there already was Diamondback from WOL. They already had those two beautiful units and could give us both, but instead they just made an abomination by putting existing AA turret on Helion wheels.
Even now Cyclone is struggling to find it's place. Swan in co-op has both Cyclones and Goliath and they just don't get along well.
Just imagine how good will look like terran tech army consisting of Helitrons, Goliathes, landed Vikings and Thors. Full mecka.
the question then comes up if all (any?) units in starcraft(/rts(/strategy)) games need to have cookie cutter roles
i mean sure it makes it easier to mentally categorize, but isnt it arguable more satisfying to have an intuition/mastery-thing going where u go with something because u feel like its the best for the given circumstances (without actually being able to consciously communicate why u feel that way) (in any/all contexts)?
The MaxPax vs Clem clip was cool but didn’t have much to do with the rest of the video imo since Terrans do that with siege tanks and marauders as well. Overall great video though
i don't play starcraft 2 but from what i'm seeing from many casts and comparing the unit to other RTS units (it often reminds me of command and conquer bike+buggyrush or missile IFVs)
the cyclone feels like a weird light/medium tank you pick before you go into heavy mech with siege tanks and or thors
it also feels like being the mechvariant/alternative to marine+marauder but seems to lack some resilience
is it just me or anyone else feel like SC2 terran feeling like the bastardchild of GDI and NOD ... hhmmmm or more like allies and NOD?
Should have just given us the diamondback
the reason why the cyclone was added is because of diamondbacks. Diamondbacks are very easy to use, deals a lot of dmg and doesn't need that much control/micro to make great use out of it. It still exists in the storymode, but it'll be probably one of the most imba units in the whole game.
Diamondbacks absolutely destroys protoss if it were to be released on PVP
One thing is for sure: its visual design is horrendous. It's just a moving set of cardboard boxes.
I've always kinda felt that way about the cyclone. I liked a lot of the new units they added with each expansion, but the cyclone just never sat right with me...
Give Hellhound!
I wonder how many more decades of balance it will be for the just to remove the Thor and the Cyclone and give us the Goliath back.
Honestly if you've seen the new queen vs cyclone openings you'd probably dislike the changes instantly. Yes it's "back and forth micro" but it's not fun to watch or play.
The story of terran race as a whole = marines are best unit in game pound-for-pound💯 As a result, ALL other Terran units get nerfed more & more every patch 😂🤣while Zerg & Toss get minor buffs every patch and Terran gets absolutely no buffs
they could just lower atack spead on first one.
Techlab Cyclone was the best, it helped with most cheeses in every matchup and you could mass it for battle mech later on. Don't know why they keep trying to mess with it -_-
Man I havent played the game in ages, but I distinctly recall the outcry from players and accused the Cyclone design as a 'hipster attempt' to try to make a new unit for the sake of having a new unit when an old unit already existed called the Goliath. The Cyclone and it;s kiting ability always felt like it was 'trying too hard' when sometimes a simple straightforward design is enough. It's kinda sad that YEARS later, the Cyclone's role/place still hasn't been truly figured out.
I still don't like the cyclone. Adding the vulture or goliath back in would have been better.
Trying to mech play, such a braindead turtle style that really shouldn't be encouraged, viable against toss.
Balance council decided to rework the functional cyclone instead of looking at the most useless spell in starcraft history, microbial shroud. Its been 5 years.
Just give us warhounds instead of this bs unit
I've heard many pro players saying the cyclone is a trash unit, and they are right compare to the toss & zerg, terran needs more buffs
Delusional
@@OldSpaghettifactory89 unknowing
Shows why sc 1 rules. Yeah a useless ghost. But cant think of different units that need a huge remake. Sc2 units were remade so many times... qq new blizzard
Shows why Blizzard can't make their design philosophy on races coherent with their themes or consistent between the two games.