Article with graphs, charts, and more information: jayscustomcreations.com/2018/03/shop-lighting-upgrade-from-fluorescent-to-led/ I finally upgraded my shop lights from fluorescent to LED and couldn't be happier. I contacted American Green Lights for suggestions and ended up making a complete switch. For full disclosure this isn't sponsored, I have nothing to gain or lose if you do or do not buy their product, and I am not being paid to write the article or make a video. However, I did ask to be provided the lights in exchange for sharing the results of the upgrade, good or bad. Now that the switch is complete I'm a huge fan of the product and the results but I don't want my opinion to be the reason you do or do not buy something. Instead, I want this video/article to provide actual information with an A to B comparison that will let you see the results to and use that to make a decision for yourself. As a bonus for you the viewer, Jim from American Green Lights said that anyone who mentions seeing the lights on my Instagram or TH-cam videos can get a 10% discount on the product and free shipping. Simply email your desired items to jaybatesoffer@americangreenlights.com.
The day I installed my first LED bulb, I went and purchased a bunch more. After a few years now, I've only had to replace one that had a failing power supply (started blinking). But I absolutely love how bright LEDs are. I used the 5000K color temperature for a nice white (or bluer) output. It's amazing how we lived with those old warm incandescents so long not knowing how little we could (or couldn't) see. The cost savings are just icing on the cake.
I started replacing my fluorescent fixtures with LED when I had trouble finding replacement bulbs. Here in California they seem to be going away. One thing I noticed immediately was how under kit my shop was. Because they draw so much less power I've been able to add more fixtures without the need for additional circuits. Finally, they make the shop so much more pleasant to be in.
Many thanks for this, and for all your excellent videos. At the conclusion you mention how difficult you sometimes find it talking in front of a camera, but there really is no need to be concerned about it. Unlike many TH-camrs, your presentations are lucid and articulate, and a pleasure to listen to.
Thanx! Very helpful. Nice timing that we could get both your and John Heisz’ take on this same topic at about the same time. Great comparison shots for people considering this switchover. Your online article is also a great companion piece to this video. American Green Lights’ input ( in your article ) was also very helpful. Nice job! I assume that this change means a simplifying of some of your considerable post-production steps, which must help also.
I work in my basement. I just installed some track lighting in addition to my fluorescent shop lights and installed regular 100W LED bulbs. I also put a dimmer switch right next to it. You can adjust the amount of light as well as direct it. Its MUCH brighter than my 2-bulb 4' T8 lights. It makes a HUGE difference. I didn't measure the power consumption but the shop lighting is rated at 32W while the track lighting is rated at 45W.
Jay, Thorough as usual. When I put the fluorescent lighting in my shop i used lights that put out a different frequency to approximate outside lighting. Light frequencies also affect the perceived color of a finished wood piece. Women have makeup mirrors that do this so their end facial coloring does not look artificial in different light sources. Will probably add Led's to my current lighting as my eyes are getting worse like everyone as we get older.
Last year I replaced all my lighting in my shop and due to cost I used fluorescents. So disappointed in that decision.... In the past 11 months I have had a ballast fail and I've had to replace 8 bulbs. So much for the savings. Thanks for the video I think it's time to make the change to LED.
Nice work Jay.. great improvement.. :) I recently moved to a new house and have (around working), turned what was a leaky carport into my new "shop".. It's draughty and damn cold here in the Southern Tablelands of Southern New South Wales, (still have more work to do to complete the transformation), but the main improvement, aside from building walls to keep the rain out, was to install LED lights.. The carport literally had none, and there was only one 2 foot fluro above the sliding door to the kitchen, but that was also around the corner, which meant 75% of the carport was in total darkness, and the remaining 25% was still only good for navigating around, (a mobile phone light was brighter). I installed 6 x 3200 lumen, 36 watt, 4 foot LED battens.. and OH, MY, GOD..! It's brighter than daylight now.. so awesome.. :) I needed to upgrade the lighting because at some point in the near future I'll be launching my own channel, under my business name, so you'll be able to see for yourself if you swing on by.. :)
This was a lot of great information. Thank you for taking the time to be so thorough with your measurements and assessments. I can now make an educated decision if I decide to upgrade in the future.
Another great video. Thanks. I totally agree that LED lights are the way to go. But permit me to make a few comments about your test comparisons. Both LED and fluorescent lights are available in a variety of color temperatures. Your shop/video has lights of one temperature compared to lights of a different temperature. So for a really accurate A vs B test all bulbs should be of the same color temperature. Impractical in your workshop with existing fluorescent, but just saying. As to which system is brighter - you can obtain any brightness level (lux) light you want with either type of light. The measure of interest often cited is the level of light output per watt of energy input. If you have different levels of energy (watts) going to two different systems you are doing an apples to oranges comparison. But I will say your conclusion is correct, LED lights are brighter. If you place a 100 watt fluorescent fixture 4 ft over your workbench, measure with your light meter, and then place a 100 watt LED fixture and measure it, the LED fixture will be brighter. I'm off my soap box. It is great to see someone actually do a comparison. So many people just say LEDs are better, look brighter, have better color, or something. Thanks for taking the time to do the video.
Hi Andy. I agree with you that the "best" test is to have the same color temperature. The California Lighting Technology Center at UC Davis used our 5000K high CRI LED to compare to 5000K Fluorescent in a side by side comparison with a single photo shot. Both sides were illuminated to the same lux levels so you could see the difference in color accuracy. You can see the actual photo at www.americangreenlights.com/color-temperature--color-accuracy-and-color-rendering-index.html. The fluorescent side has a green tint and the reds look maroon and the blues look gray. The LED side has vibrant colors. I hope you can find that helpful. In Jay's situation, our goal was to get his lighting levels to where it was appropriate levels for high precision work, and improve the color rendering. We wanted to increase his lighting levels to the 100 foot-candle range. His video comparison helps demonstrate a real-world case study that hopefully will help others looking to improve their lighting.
I put T5 6 lamp high bay lights in my shop. It's like daylight in there. They don't have to warm up at all. LEDs were crazy expensive at the time I built my shop, but with prices now I would go with LEDs. Coverage is key for any lighting, if you have them too far apart it's no good. Typically laying out lights you halve the space up against the walls, that way you don't end up with a shadow 1/2 way down the wall. There are some handy online lumen calculators to let you figure out how many fixtures and what spacing you need.
Thanks, big help. My shop is 16 years old. I have 24 t8 bulbs lighting my shop. 6 are either dead or flickering. I've aready replaced 2 of 6 ballasts. At 60 years old it sounds like the LEDs will outlast me. That's both exciting and depressing. Thanks again.
White LEDs are actually blue LEDs with phosphor added to the lens. The type of phosphor determines the color temperature in Kelvin (K) of the light. The 5000k used in this video are neutral or natural white while lower numbers lean towards the yellow (warm) and higher numbers towards the blue (cold). Normal incandescent bulbs are warm and normal fluorescent are cool but other temperatures are available, Aquariums look good illuminated by cool LEDs but living / working areas are better illuminated with warm to neutral lighting. This is a great practical video, good job and good choice on the LEDs.
Very illuminating video Jay. You sure are a bright guy. I’ll stop now. In all seriousness I’ve been wanting to hear your opinion on this for a while. I went with LED’s in my shop from pretty much the beginning, but I bought cheap LED shop lights, and they mostly light the middle. I wish now I would have gone with something like this. I still have a lot of dark areas around the edges and I think I want to add something similar to what you did around the edges. I just hope it blends ok with the lights I already have in place.
We have led high bay lights at work. Great light output compared to our old 400w mh lights. We have had to replace quite a few drivers for the leds though.
Nice man, I switched over to American Green Lights LEDs about six months ago and love them. Much better than my previous fluorescent lights. By the way, not sure if you've run into a flickering issue when speeding up footage (I did), but I found that setting my shutter speed to 60 permanently solved the issue.
Certainly a big difference between the two, and the LEDs are much better. I reckon you have convinced me to start saving my pennies to get better lighting in my own shop.👍
Hmm, I've never been big on checking the depth before I jump in. I suppose when I get it done, I could let you know which seller was top of the ebay list after searching for led lights and sorting by lowest to highest price 😀
Nice, Jay. I'm about to start retrofitting my shop with LED bulbs. I'm just going to start with replacing the bulbs I have though. No new fixtures yet. Btw, the "bell" or "housing" is usually called a diffuser I think. Hail State!
Thank You so much. You are an excellent Teacher. You have helped me learn so much in a short period of time. I have Subscribed and I will always hit the like button.
I am working on the lighting for my wood shop as well. I found the Phillips 209056 Fluorescent lamps which blow most LEDs away. They are 5000K color, 2000 lumens, and have a CRI of 98.
Hi Jeremy. The Philips 209056 is certainly better than most fluorescent. They achieve the 98 CRI my adding a few bands of color in the wide spectrum range to cover the 500nm and 660 nm wavelengths to provide the "average" (Ra) measurement to get 98 CRI. Howevern the Green 550nm and Blue 440nm still overpowers the color others ( please see link below). Philips= 63.9 lumens per watt for the lamp compared to 100-140 lumens per watt for most LED on the market today (see specs in second link). LED provides approx double the light output per watt of electricity. Combined with the directional nature of LED which increases efficiency in directing light towards the work surface, the overall result is more than double per watt in favor of LED. I hope this information is helpful in providing additional insight into the comparison between LED and fluorescent. www.assets.lighting.philips.com/is/image/PhilipsLighting/666dd122e3884428ab0ba4a300b580e9?wid=1024 www.assets.lighting.philips.com/is/image/PhilipsLighting/39b07f35a8da4f78b5e3a4a300b57dfd?wid=1024 www.usa.lighting.philips.com/professional-product-catalog/lamps/fluorescent-lamps-and-starters/tl-d/t8-900-series-rapid-start/927942009520_NA
I don't film, but do want good light (I'm old and half blind ;D ). I Changed out my Fluro's to LED's nine months ago. Yes expensive up front but what a difference. Glad I did it.
Thanks for the video... I want to put better lights in my garage as the first step to a shop and was wondering if I should go with fluorescent or LED. Now I know. Thanks, KB.
Crazy bright! Thanks for putting the camera info on screen too - shooting at that combination of ISO and aperture but still getting such well lit image really shows I *have* to switch to LEDs ASAP! Anybody know an equiv type product available in Australia/240v?
I take a lot of photos in my house using my smartphone. I've learned the hard way that smartphone cameras focus and metering in general tend to go haywire under LED lighting due to its blinking.
Cheap LED lights have a lot of flicker, or "ripple", due to simplistic power management, inadequate capacitor size, and inadequate induction. Good LED power supplies eliminate almost all detectable flicker.
Well I loved the video but didn't see any link to buy their lights. Ended up going with Amazon. 4 x 4' LED lights for $99.00 curious how much your lights were in comparison?
Great video man! Lots of info! Maybe somebody is going to complain about the lenght of the video but you have so much mini tips and useful data that really makes this video worth it to see fully! Bye man i need to go to my shop and change the lighting! Cheers!
If you are referring to his "death star" lighting video - In my opinion the diffusion sheet is unnecessary for a LED shop light. LEDs naturally illuminate down, perpendicular to the mounting surface and have around a 120-140 degree dispersion angle. I believe he wanted to make a self-contained fixture that would look visually pleasing, thus used the steel frame and plastic diffuser. But one could just use the LED strips, attach to ceiling, wire them properly, and be good to go for a garage or basement shop. Naturally you would pay attention to electrical codes for the 110v wiring. If you had a finished ceiling then I would probably go with something like John did.
Would like to see what it would look like with both the fluorescent and LED lights on together! Lol. Are you leaving the fluorescent lights up as well or you will be taking them down
Sorry to be awkward but for bench working I find fluorescent strip lighting superior to anything LED I've ever tried. I found those small fluorescent lamps from a few years back to be rubbish. You switch on the lights and wait for two minutes or more for the brightness to come up - what was all that about? I'm just about to dump my bench LED lights - along with the three different colour balance thing, touch dimming etc, none of that is of any use to me. I want nice bright strip lighting like we used to have back in the olden days. Fluorescents aren't that power hungry either - back when we used filament lamps, fluorescents only used a fraction of the power. LED's are much better, I know but for the work I do, I've never found an LED solution that works for me. I've got two or three different LED lights on the go and I'll replace them with one downward facing T8 striplight. Modern ballasts are reliable, high frequency and instant 'on'. I'm happy with LED lighting elsewhere at home though.
HI Alan. Please contact me and lets try something and then see if you feel the same after that. Send me a note and let's talk. www.americangreenlights.com/contact-us.html
Jay, Great video, thanks! Is your dart board height above floor 5’ 8” to center of the bull? I has the illusion of being higher than that, and it’s driving me nuts.
If you had to pay for it, would you still say the upgrade is worth the cost? How would prioritize the cost of this upgrade against other shop costs? I.e. if I was deciding to either upgrade lighting or upgrade a power tool, which would you say is a higher priority? Thanks! Great video!
It's definitely worth it. You will spend less money in the long run with a more energy efficient setup. As far as prioritizing... I can't speak for everyone. We all value different tools and setups differently.
Great information if your setting up your shop and don't know about lighting like I don't i have the same problem with cold lights lol thanks I'll be making the change soon
Have you made the same test with the LED-Tubes? Switch them on, when they are cold for hours, measure the light, wait 20 minutes or so and measure again? Importand is, they must be cold, off, for hours. Thank you.
Ok, my error. Didn't realize, that you don't use tubes. But this is no problem. Make this test anway with your LEDs. Here in my workshop i have detected a problem. And i spoke with another youtuber, who noticed the same with his LEDs. They get darker. So i want to know, is this the manufacturer or is it typically for LEDs. Thanks for your answer. And btw, yes, LEDs are better for videos and fotos.
Hey jay love ur videos and been looking for side by side comparison. I will like to point out that store led t8 tubes arent even close for anyone considering that, If u cant match the lumens it will not give u the same light, led light 2000 lumens vs t8 3000 lumens will really be a lot less light. I have similar setup as jay, I have 4 8' fixtures, that use 4 t8 bulbs each 3000 lumens. Most I have seen at big box stores is between 2000 to 2200 for led. I bought 32 led bulbs yesterday and changed one half my shop to led, it was very noticeable in how much more light the t8 fluorescent tubes put out, night and day. The intensity looking at the light was more on the led but that is about it. Some people tried to tell me since led was downward light vs fluorescent 360 around the bulb light that my lumen loss would be greater on fluorescent bulbs and thats why led were brighter. If you are going to upgrade to led my suggestion is american green light that jay has, I have looked at those and emailed them, they have higher lumen led lights. As for the watt usage I think that may be wrong jay, I believe u added bulb watt x whatever number of bulbs u have, you have to factor the ballast in, which after factored if u have 24 bulbs / 6 fixtures would be like 672 watts, with the average 2 t8 32 watt bulbs plus ballast at about 56 watts x 2= fixture watt 112 basically the ballast do draw a little less power than what the bulbs do. I had researched that because i needed close to exact as i could get, I have them on smart switches so even if left on they will shut off automatically and come on when my garage door opens.
oh forgot to add that i am also installing 4 more 8' t8 fixtures this weekend, can never have enough light lol, hopefully by end of summer i can get the retrofit kit from american green light to upgrade mine. Some lowes is clearing out those 8' strip lights so u can pick them up discounted, also lowes has all sylvannia and utiltech light bulbs / led on clearance. br 30 led bulbs also the a19 very cheap and all the led and fluorescent t8 and t12 bulbs, the t5 ho bulbs and also the 8' t5 ho strip lights .
When the fluorescent bulb burns out, you just swap out the bulb for a new one. When the LEDs fail, you have to rip out and replace the entire fixture...
You are partially correct. Cheap LED fixtures are wholly integrated and not serviceable. Our commercial shop lights are fully serviceable. Drivers can be replaced. LED strips can be replaced. The L70 lifetime of the LED strips on these lights is 120,000 hours, which at 12 hours a day, 7 days a week is over 30 years, Compared to many economy shop lights and LED tubes with 30,000 hour "average" lifetime (in other words, 50% have failed by that time). LEDs properly manufactured don't burn out, they just get dimmer over time. L70 is the number of hours of operation where the lumen degradation is 30%. In other words, the fixtures output 70% of the lumens when the fixtures are new. We supply large industrial and commercial customers, who install hundreds of lights in their facilities, and if one fails, they want continuity of appearance. Manufacturers of disposable fixtures discontinue products all the time in order to shave pennies off manufacturing costs. Our basic fixtures don't look fancy, but continuity has been since 2009, with improvements in performance and lifetime, but consistent look and serviceability.
Can we get a true this than that comparison without changing anything on the camera? Or a comparison at 5000k and at 6500k? And with all your double Jays maybe make it actual side by side? Thanks for the great content otherwise.
I Have an Double light bulb fixture in Cieling one of Florescent bulbs Blue I Replaced it with LED Bulb and left one of florescent bulb in. I hit the Switch Florescent bulb came on first Led came on Second later.
Hey Jay, glad to see you changed to LEDs. I did the change a few months ago and boy what a difference. The lamps I used can be installed and used with or without a ballast. But I also learned the LEDs will output a little more light when you remove the ballast. I chose to go with the 6000k lamps and it’s like working outside. My wife said she could perform surgery in my shop. I too love the instant on and no light degradation. And don’t forget, fluorescent lamps have to be recycled because they are considered a hazardous product. Thanks again for the video. Here’s a link to my shop lighting change: th-cam.com/video/dX-GfdLwIV0/w-d-xo.html. Frank
The impact of smart phones is greater than the impact of shop lighting on your sleep levels, unless you plan on sleeping in the shop. Be sure to turn on your blue light filter on your smart phone at night. There is a lot of research done on lighting, circadian rhythm, and light wavelength impact on Serotonin production during sleep and its impact on health. Much of the focus is on the blue wavelength of light, regardless of LED or other light sources. White LEDs start with blue LED light that is then converted to white utilizing a mix of phosphors, that emit different wavelengths of light. High CRI lighting emits the widest range of wavelengths and reduces the relative strength of the blue in relation to the other wavelengths (colors). The body reacts to different wavelengths differently. In Nature, the sunrise light is orange-ish and becomes more blue-white as mid day sun, and slowly reverts to orange, red, and far red as more blue light is filtered out as sunset approaches. The white light/blue light range has higher wave energy and the body reacts with alertness, while the amber and red and far red stimulates the seratonin production which assists in sleep, healing and rejuvenation.
Unnecessary. It's plenty bright enough to see what you're doing. I just thought I would reference that it's always not as bright as the rest of the shop.
I’ve been meaning to say this for a while now: I love that you are a Detroit fan. I’m die hard and it’s great to see you showing off those sweet flags. Can’t wait to get me some Rod Allen in my life again. Go Tigers! - and go lions and wings of course.
Nothing will replace the late 90's wings in my mind.....the Russian 5....the Grind line... Stevie Y, Lidstrom, Federov, Mccarty, Draper, Kozlov, Shanahan, Larionov, Osgood, Vernon.... the Wings VS Avalanche rivalry..... I just got goosebumps.
Couldn’t agree more. Bench clearing brawls. Goalie fights (Vernon beating on Roy of course). My dad still has the Det. free press clippings in frames in his basement from those Cups. Those were the days for sure! Now It’s time for a Lombardi trophy!
McCarty recently sat in on an episode of The Detroit Cast #1005, and shares some great stories from those days. The Detroit Cast is a podcast that rose from the ashes of the once great Drew and Mike show.
Until the Claude Lemieux hit on Draper in 1996. Prob the 3rd worst hit I've ever seen behind Dale Hunter's cheap shot on Turgeon after the goal and Stevens on Lindros...and I'm a Sabres fan.
One of the first things I noticed. I was a Wings fan for the first part of my life, but when the Preds came to Nashvegas it caused a rift in my family. ;P
LED lights also reflect or bounce better and eliminate more shadows than incandescent or fluorescent lights. LED lights do play trucks with depth of field views. Many think that LEDs produce little to no heat, some LEDs get extremely hot and have cooling blocks with fins.
akbychoice yes you are correct. LED lights do generate Heat. However, the design of the lights is important in order to dissipate the Heat. Our shop lights use open LED design. The natural air flow around the LEDs helps keep them cool. Furthermore, the reflector acts as a heat sink to remove even more heat. Thirdly, we use many low-powered LED instead of smaller number of high-powered LEDs. This also means each LED is generating less Heat allowing for better heat dissipation. Many LED products can get so hot that you cannot touch them without burning yourself. However, our LED shop lights and retrofit kits don't get much hotter than body temperature, minimizing Lumen loss, and Lumen degradation.
Sooo... you mooched these lights from this company and claim you’re not going to endorse them, but you mentioned their name and gave a rave review on the lights but you’re not being biased because you said you weren’t....
Hello idiot. I mooched lights from them? Nothing in life is free. I bartered the cost of the lights for a video showing the difference. My opinion means nothing as the video results speak for themselves. I didn't make a video showing lights and how awesome they are. I made a video showing how much better the lights are compared to what I had and gave actual results you could see. Do you not understand that?
You are both correct. 4ft T12 tubes are 40w per tube. 2-lamp fixtures use 80 watts , but ballast factor can make final wattage anywhere from 78 watts to 100 watts. T8 tubes are 32 watts per tube, and with ballast factor, a 2-lamp fixture consumes between 60 and 75 watts of electricity. Then there are high output (HO) tubes that are roughly double the wattage and light output.
Ideally, you should only shoot at ISO setting that fall into multiples of 160. So in this case, change to 320 and stop the lens down a bit. Artificial ISO settings add unnecessary noise to the image.
Ideally....yes. But modern camera sensors are fantastic at higher ISO values. Nobody is going to notice the difference between ISO 160 vs ISO 1600 from a modern Sony sensor in 4k. Especially considering TH-cam compression. I have a color correct 4k monitor and I have a hard time telling the difference between ISO 200 and ISO 800 when pixel peeping.
Another great video, thank you ! Note that human perception of lighting is a bit similar to perception of sound in that it is a logarithmic response. www.pathwaylighting.com/products/downloads/brochure/technical_materials_1466797044_Linear+vs+Logarithmic+Dimming+White+Paper.pdf [I have no affiliation with pathway.] I noticed a lot of improvement in shadow areas in your shop with the LED's. Great !!
Article with graphs, charts, and more information: jayscustomcreations.com/2018/03/shop-lighting-upgrade-from-fluorescent-to-led/
I finally upgraded my shop lights from fluorescent to LED and couldn't be happier. I contacted American Green Lights for suggestions and ended up making a complete switch. For full disclosure this isn't sponsored, I have nothing to gain or lose if you do or do not buy their product, and I am not being paid to write the article or make a video. However, I did ask to be provided the lights in exchange for sharing the results of the upgrade, good or bad. Now that the switch is complete I'm a huge fan of the product and the results but I don't want my opinion to be the reason you do or do not buy something. Instead, I want this video/article to provide actual information with an A to B comparison that will let you see the results to and use that to make a decision for yourself. As a bonus for you the viewer, Jim from American Green Lights said that anyone who mentions seeing the lights on my Instagram or TH-cam videos can get a 10% discount on the product and free shipping. Simply email your desired items to jaybatesoffer@americangreenlights.com.
any new videos coming? someone on facebook asked about the lengthy layoff.
The day I installed my first LED bulb, I went and purchased a bunch more. After a few years now, I've only had to replace one that had a failing power supply (started blinking). But I absolutely love how bright LEDs are. I used the 5000K color temperature for a nice white (or bluer) output. It's amazing how we lived with those old warm incandescents so long not knowing how little we could (or couldn't) see. The cost savings are just icing on the cake.
I started replacing my fluorescent fixtures with LED when I had trouble finding replacement bulbs. Here in California they seem to be going away. One thing I noticed immediately was how under kit my shop was. Because they draw so much less power I've been able to add more fixtures without the need for additional circuits. Finally, they make the shop so much more pleasant to be in.
Many thanks for this, and for all your excellent videos. At the conclusion you mention how difficult you sometimes find it talking in front of a camera, but there really is no need to be concerned about it. Unlike many TH-camrs, your presentations are lucid and articulate, and a pleasure to listen to.
Thanx! Very helpful. Nice timing that we could get both your and John Heisz’ take on this same topic at about the same time. Great comparison shots for people considering this switchover. Your online article is also a great companion piece to this video. American Green Lights’ input ( in your article ) was also very helpful. Nice job! I assume that this change means a simplifying of some of your considerable post-production steps, which must help also.
I work in my basement. I just installed some track lighting in addition to my fluorescent shop lights and installed regular 100W LED bulbs. I also put a dimmer switch right next to it. You can adjust the amount of light as well as direct it. Its MUCH brighter than my 2-bulb 4' T8 lights. It makes a HUGE difference. I didn't measure the power consumption but the shop lighting is rated at 32W while the track lighting is rated at 45W.
Great info. I'm using this for a small indoor grow space to get a jump on my spring garden. I'll be switching to LED thanks to your video!
Nice ... the best video about lighting in the workshop ...
Jay, Thorough as usual. When I put the fluorescent lighting in my shop i used lights that put out a different frequency to approximate outside lighting. Light frequencies also affect the perceived color of a finished wood piece. Women have makeup mirrors that do this so their end facial coloring does not look artificial in different light sources. Will probably add Led's to my current lighting as my eyes are getting worse like everyone as we get older.
Last year I replaced all my lighting in my shop and due to cost I used fluorescents. So disappointed in that decision.... In the past 11 months I have had a ballast fail and I've had to replace 8 bulbs. So much for the savings. Thanks for the video I think it's time to make the change to LED.
Nice work Jay.. great improvement.. :)
I recently moved to a new house and have (around working), turned what was a leaky carport into my new "shop".. It's draughty and damn cold here in the Southern Tablelands of Southern New South Wales, (still have more work to do to complete the transformation), but the main improvement, aside from building walls to keep the rain out, was to install LED lights.. The carport literally had none, and there was only one 2 foot fluro above the sliding door to the kitchen, but that was also around the corner, which meant 75% of the carport was in total darkness, and the remaining 25% was still only good for navigating around, (a mobile phone light was brighter).
I installed 6 x 3200 lumen, 36 watt, 4 foot LED battens.. and OH, MY, GOD..! It's brighter than daylight now.. so awesome.. :)
I needed to upgrade the lighting because at some point in the near future I'll be launching my own channel, under my business name, so you'll be able to see for yourself if you swing on by.. :)
Replaced (4) 8' and (4) 4' to LED, kept the fixtures. Selling the house soon, they will be going with me. About $120 total. Worth it.
Great comparison, thanks! That one switch from LED to Fluorescent said it all.
This was a lot of great information. Thank you for taking the time to be so thorough with your measurements and assessments. I can now make an educated decision if I decide to upgrade in the future.
The first thought when i opened the video was DAMN that looks good. Game changer, greta work Jay.
Hi Jay,
Also, the LEDs don’t have the issue of mercury and special disposal.
That is a huge difference. Very nice.
Good info Jay. I like the new lights, exspecially because the colors look more natural.
Another great video. Thanks. I totally agree that LED lights are the way to go.
But permit me to make a few comments about your test comparisons. Both LED and fluorescent lights are available in a variety of color temperatures. Your shop/video has lights of one temperature compared to lights of a different temperature. So for a really accurate A vs B test all bulbs should be of the same color temperature. Impractical in your workshop with existing fluorescent, but just saying. As to which system is brighter - you can obtain any brightness level (lux) light you want with either type of light. The measure of interest often cited is the level of light output per watt of energy input. If you have different levels of energy (watts) going to two different systems you are doing an apples to oranges comparison. But I will say your conclusion is correct, LED lights are brighter. If you place a 100 watt fluorescent fixture 4 ft over your workbench, measure with your light meter, and then place a 100 watt LED fixture and measure it, the LED fixture will be brighter.
I'm off my soap box. It is great to see someone actually do a comparison. So many people just say LEDs are better, look brighter, have better color, or something. Thanks for taking the time to do the video.
Hi Andy. I agree with you that the "best" test is to have the same color temperature. The California Lighting Technology Center at UC Davis used our 5000K high CRI LED to compare to 5000K Fluorescent in a side by side comparison with a single photo shot. Both sides were illuminated to the same lux levels so you could see the difference in color accuracy. You can see the actual photo at www.americangreenlights.com/color-temperature--color-accuracy-and-color-rendering-index.html. The fluorescent side has a green tint and the reds look maroon and the blues look gray. The LED side has vibrant colors. I hope you can find that helpful.
In Jay's situation, our goal was to get his lighting levels to where it was appropriate levels for high precision work, and improve the color rendering. We wanted to increase his lighting levels to the 100 foot-candle range. His video comparison helps demonstrate a real-world case study that hopefully will help others looking to improve their lighting.
I put T5 6 lamp high bay lights in my shop. It's like daylight in there. They don't have to warm up at all.
LEDs were crazy expensive at the time I built my shop, but with prices now I would go with LEDs.
Coverage is key for any lighting, if you have them too far apart it's no good. Typically laying out lights you halve the space up against the walls, that way you don't end up with a shadow 1/2 way down the wall.
There are some handy online lumen calculators to let you figure out how many fixtures and what spacing you need.
Thanks, big help. My shop is 16 years old. I have 24 t8 bulbs lighting my shop. 6 are either dead or flickering. I've aready replaced 2 of 6 ballasts.
At 60 years old it sounds like the LEDs will outlast me.
That's both exciting and depressing.
Thanks again.
Best comparison video. Thanks for making this.
White LEDs are actually blue LEDs with phosphor added to the lens. The type of phosphor determines the color temperature in Kelvin (K) of the light. The 5000k used in this video are neutral or natural white while lower numbers lean towards the yellow (warm) and higher numbers towards the blue (cold). Normal incandescent bulbs are warm and normal fluorescent are cool but other temperatures are available, Aquariums look good illuminated by cool LEDs but living / working areas are better illuminated with warm to neutral lighting. This is a great practical video, good job and good choice on the LEDs.
Great job Jay. I have been wanting to upgrade my lighting as well. Keep up the great videos.
Very illuminating video Jay. You sure are a bright guy. I’ll stop now. In all seriousness I’ve been wanting to hear your opinion on this for a while. I went with LED’s in my shop from pretty much the beginning, but I bought cheap LED shop lights, and they mostly light the middle. I wish now I would have gone with something like this. I still have a lot of dark areas around the edges and I think I want to add something similar to what you did around the edges. I just hope it blends ok with the lights I already have in place.
I think the LED's look much better. Lots of good information. I need to upgrade my shop lighting too.
I have sensitive eyes so I like dimmer light. Fluorescent FTW!
We have led high bay lights at work. Great light output compared to our old 400w mh lights. We have had to replace quite a few drivers for the leds though.
Nice man, I switched over to American Green Lights LEDs about six months ago and love them. Much better than my previous fluorescent lights. By the way, not sure if you've run into a flickering issue when speeding up footage (I did), but I found that setting my shutter speed to 60 permanently solved the issue.
I haven't had that problem. I tested a bunch of video speeds and cant find any flickering.
It might have been because I shoot in 24p, but man it was a pain til I figured it out. Love the light quality though!
I shoot in 24p as well. Glad you found a solution though.
Thank you for another great video.
Certainly a big difference between the two, and the LEDs are much better. I reckon you have convinced me to start saving my pennies to get better lighting in my own shop.👍
You're doing all the research on whats available in AU so I dont' have to, right? :D
Hmm, I've never been big on checking the depth before I jump in. I suppose when I get it done, I could let you know which seller was top of the ebay list after searching for led lights and sorting by lowest to highest price 😀
Nice, Jay. I'm about to start retrofitting my shop with LED bulbs. I'm just going to start with replacing the bulbs I have though. No new fixtures yet. Btw, the "bell" or "housing" is usually called a diffuser I think. Hail State!
Thank You so much. You are an excellent Teacher. You have helped me learn so much in a short period of time. I have Subscribed and I will always hit the like button.
Love those LEDs... Great well done comparison, Jay!
Sounds like something Ron Swanson would say.
Very informative. This is the comparison video I needed!
I am working on the lighting for my wood shop as well. I found the Phillips 209056 Fluorescent lamps which blow most LEDs away. They are 5000K color, 2000 lumens, and have a CRI of 98.
Hi Jeremy. The Philips 209056 is certainly better than most fluorescent. They achieve the 98 CRI my adding a few bands of color in the wide spectrum range to cover the 500nm and 660 nm wavelengths to provide the "average" (Ra) measurement to get 98 CRI. Howevern the Green 550nm and Blue 440nm still overpowers the color others ( please see link below).
Philips= 63.9 lumens per watt for the lamp compared to 100-140 lumens per watt for most LED on the market today (see specs in second link). LED provides approx double the light output per watt of electricity. Combined with the directional nature of LED which increases efficiency in directing light towards the work surface, the overall result is more than double per watt in favor of LED. I hope this information is helpful in providing additional insight into the comparison between LED and fluorescent.
www.assets.lighting.philips.com/is/image/PhilipsLighting/666dd122e3884428ab0ba4a300b580e9?wid=1024
www.assets.lighting.philips.com/is/image/PhilipsLighting/39b07f35a8da4f78b5e3a4a300b57dfd?wid=1024
www.usa.lighting.philips.com/professional-product-catalog/lamps/fluorescent-lamps-and-starters/tl-d/t8-900-series-rapid-start/927942009520_NA
Phone rings during taping Unsubscribe, NOT! Just teasing. Really well-done video! Thanks for the time and effort to teach us.
I don't film, but do want good light (I'm old and half blind ;D ). I Changed out my Fluro's to LED's nine months ago. Yes expensive up front but what a difference. Glad I did it.
Outstanding video and presentation. Thank you!
Thanks for the video... I want to put better lights in my garage as the first step to a shop and was wondering if I should go with fluorescent or LED. Now I know. Thanks, KB.
Very good and informative video Jay. Thanks!
Good for you, my fellow Michigan dude - turn them off when you leave, turn them on when you need them. Go Green.
Crazy bright! Thanks for putting the camera info on screen too - shooting at that combination of ISO and aperture but still getting such well lit image really shows I *have* to switch to LEDs ASAP!
Anybody know an equiv type product available in Australia/240v?
same request as Paul but in Ireland :-)))
I take a lot of photos in my house using my smartphone. I've learned the hard way that smartphone cameras focus and metering in general tend to go haywire under LED lighting due to its blinking.
Cheap LED lights have a lot of flicker, or "ripple", due to simplistic power management, inadequate capacitor size, and inadequate induction. Good LED power supplies eliminate almost all detectable flicker.
Well I loved the video but didn't see any link to buy their lights. Ended up going with Amazon. 4 x 4' LED lights for $99.00 curious how much your lights were in comparison?
Wanted to see all light on - old and new (:
Ps: it looks a lot better and I liked the ending.
That's Awesome! What a great difference.
Thanks for all the info Jay! 👍👊
Great video man! Lots of info! Maybe somebody is going to complain about the lenght of the video but you have so much mini tips and useful data that really makes this video worth it to see fully! Bye man i need to go to my shop and change the lighting! Cheers!
Helpful stuff Jay :) Thank you ॐ
What do you think on John Heitz's diy defuser fixtures for leds? Maybe get a little more wrap-around light and slightly softer shadows?
If you are referring to his "death star" lighting video - In my opinion the diffusion sheet is unnecessary for a LED shop light. LEDs naturally illuminate down, perpendicular to the mounting surface and have around a 120-140 degree dispersion angle. I believe he wanted to make a self-contained fixture that would look visually pleasing, thus used the steel frame and plastic diffuser. But one could just use the LED strips, attach to ceiling, wire them properly, and be good to go for a garage or basement shop. Naturally you would pay attention to electrical codes for the 110v wiring. If you had a finished ceiling then I would probably go with something like John did.
Huge difference between them wow. I didn't think it would be that much.
Do the LED lights give you any headache at all? Like do they strain your eyes after a few hours in the room or no?
Would like to see what it would look like with both the fluorescent and LED lights on together! Lol. Are you leaving the fluorescent lights up as well or you will be taking them down
Sorry to be awkward but for bench working I find fluorescent strip lighting superior to anything LED I've ever tried. I found those small fluorescent lamps from a few years back to be rubbish. You switch on the lights and wait for two minutes or more for the brightness to come up - what was all that about? I'm just about to dump my bench LED lights - along with the three different colour balance thing, touch dimming etc, none of that is of any use to me. I want nice bright strip lighting like we used to have back in the olden days. Fluorescents aren't that power hungry either - back when we used filament lamps, fluorescents only used a fraction of the power. LED's are much better, I know but for the work I do, I've never found an LED solution that works for me. I've got two or three different LED lights on the go and I'll replace them with one downward facing T8 striplight. Modern ballasts are reliable, high frequency and instant 'on'. I'm happy with LED lighting elsewhere at home though.
HI Alan. Please contact me and lets try something and then see if you feel the same after that. Send me a note and let's talk. www.americangreenlights.com/contact-us.html
Good job Jay. Thanks
Great content Jay. Thanks very much!
LED's are brighter when cold, not sure if it will make much difference to the camera though.
Jay, Great video, thanks!
Is your dart board height above floor 5’ 8” to center of the bull? I has the illusion of being higher than that, and it’s driving me nuts.
It's higher. I need to lower it but....
Why are you concerned?
So its not sponsored by them but they did provide the lights???
Thanks Jay !!!!
If you had to pay for it, would you still say the upgrade is worth the cost? How would prioritize the cost of this upgrade against other shop costs? I.e. if I was deciding to either upgrade lighting or upgrade a power tool, which would you say is a higher priority? Thanks! Great video!
It's definitely worth it. You will spend less money in the long run with a more energy efficient setup. As far as prioritizing... I can't speak for everyone. We all value different tools and setups differently.
Jay Bates 2 - Vlog and Non Project Videos thanks!!
Great information if your setting up your shop and don't know about lighting like I don't i have the same problem with cold lights lol thanks I'll be making the change soon
What project is glued up on your table saw during this video?
Which camera and lens are you using?
We will now be able to see the fine flecks of Man Glitter that are produced in your shop.
I hope not...my dust collection sucks :)
Jay Bates 2 - Vlog and Non Project Videos
Yes, No safe cat butts in your neighborhood.
hahahaha
Thank you for video.. awesome 👌
Very nicely done!!
Have you made the same test with the LED-Tubes? Switch them on, when they are cold for hours, measure the light, wait 20 minutes or so and measure again? Importand is, they must be cold, off, for hours. Thank you.
I don't have any LED tubes to test. Sorry.
Ok, my error. Didn't realize, that you don't use tubes. But this is no problem. Make this test anway with your LEDs. Here in my workshop i have detected a problem. And i spoke with another youtuber, who noticed the same with his LEDs. They get darker.
So i want to know, is this the manufacturer or is it typically for LEDs. Thanks for your answer.
And btw, yes, LEDs are better for videos and fotos.
Hey jay love ur videos and been looking for side by side comparison. I will like to point out that store led t8 tubes arent even close for anyone considering that, If u cant match the lumens it will not give u the same light, led light 2000 lumens vs t8 3000 lumens will really be a lot less light. I have similar setup as jay, I have 4 8' fixtures, that use 4 t8 bulbs each 3000 lumens. Most I have seen at big box stores is between 2000 to 2200 for led. I bought 32 led bulbs yesterday and changed one half my shop to led, it was very noticeable in how much more light the t8 fluorescent tubes put out, night and day. The intensity looking at the light was more on the led but that is about it. Some people tried to tell me since led was downward light vs fluorescent 360 around the bulb light that my lumen loss would be greater on fluorescent bulbs and thats why led were brighter. If you are going to upgrade to led my suggestion is american green light that jay has, I have looked at those and emailed them, they have higher lumen led lights.
As for the watt usage I think that may be wrong jay, I believe u added bulb watt x whatever number of bulbs u have, you have to factor the ballast in, which after factored if u have 24 bulbs / 6 fixtures would be like 672 watts, with the average 2 t8 32 watt bulbs plus ballast at about 56 watts x 2= fixture watt 112 basically the ballast do draw a little less power than what the bulbs do.
I had researched that because i needed close to exact as i could get, I have them on smart switches so even if left on they will shut off automatically and come on when my garage door opens.
oh forgot to add that i am also installing 4 more 8' t8 fixtures this weekend, can never have enough light lol, hopefully by end of summer i can get the retrofit kit from american green light to upgrade mine. Some lowes is clearing out those 8' strip lights so u can pick them up discounted, also lowes has all sylvannia and utiltech light bulbs / led on clearance. br 30 led bulbs also the a19 very cheap and all the led and fluorescent t8 and t12 bulbs, the t5 ho bulbs and also the 8' t5 ho strip lights .
When the fluorescent bulb burns out, you just swap out the bulb for a new one. When the LEDs fail, you have to rip out and replace the entire fixture...
Yup costing you $50 to replace a light versus 10 bucks for two bulbs 😂😂😂😂😂
You are partially correct. Cheap LED fixtures are wholly integrated and not serviceable. Our commercial shop lights are fully serviceable. Drivers can be replaced. LED strips can be replaced. The L70 lifetime of the LED strips on these lights is 120,000 hours, which at 12 hours a day, 7 days a week is over 30 years, Compared to many economy shop lights and LED tubes with 30,000 hour "average" lifetime (in other words, 50% have failed by that time). LEDs properly manufactured don't burn out, they just get dimmer over time. L70 is the number of hours of operation where the lumen degradation is 30%. In other words, the fixtures output 70% of the lumens when the fixtures are new. We supply large industrial and commercial customers, who install hundreds of lights in their facilities, and if one fails, they want continuity of appearance. Manufacturers of disposable fixtures discontinue products all the time in order to shave pennies off manufacturing costs. Our basic fixtures don't look fancy, but continuity has been since 2009, with improvements in performance and lifetime, but consistent look and serviceability.
Lights look great, and it should make it so much easier for you to dial the exposure and color balance of your videos. Cheers!
Thanks for the insight!
Can we get a true this than that comparison without changing anything on the camera? Or a comparison at 5000k and at 6500k? And with all your double Jays maybe make it actual side by side? Thanks for the great content otherwise.
An enlightening video, certain to draw the attention of the Illuminati of the TH-cam shop videos group. lol Nice comparison, Jay.
Illuminati confirmed.
awesome vid...thanks for all your tips...p.
Judging by your camera settings, that's freaking bright.
Would have liked to see what the shop looked like with both lights (florescent and LED) on at the same time.
Extremely bright with not accurate colors due to the fluorescents.
Mark C madadamatrr
NICE JOB!
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LED Corn Light Bulb - 54W, 6500K Cool White, Large Mogul E39 Base,
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LED garage store shop light warehouse on amazon
I Have an Double light bulb fixture in Cieling one of Florescent bulbs Blue I Replaced it with LED Bulb and left one of florescent bulb in. I hit the Switch Florescent bulb came on first Led came on Second later.
I love my LED shop lights!!!
Hey Jay, glad to see you changed to LEDs. I did the change a few months ago and boy what a difference. The lamps I used can be installed and used with or without a ballast. But I also learned the LEDs will output a little more light when you remove the ballast. I chose to go with the 6000k lamps and it’s like working outside. My wife said she could perform surgery in my shop. I too love the instant on and no light degradation. And don’t forget, fluorescent lamps have to be recycled because they are considered a hazardous product. Thanks again for the video. Here’s a link to my shop lighting change: th-cam.com/video/dX-GfdLwIV0/w-d-xo.html. Frank
I heard somewhere that sometimes the LED lights can cause you to lose sleep. Notice this at all?
The impact of smart phones is greater than the impact of shop lighting on your sleep levels, unless you plan on sleeping in the shop. Be sure to turn on your blue light filter on your smart phone at night.
There is a lot of research done on lighting, circadian rhythm, and light wavelength impact on Serotonin production during sleep and its impact on health. Much of the focus is on the blue wavelength of light, regardless of LED or other light sources. White LEDs start with blue LED light that is then converted to white utilizing a mix of phosphors, that emit different wavelengths of light. High CRI lighting emits the widest range of wavelengths and reduces the relative strength of the blue in relation to the other wavelengths (colors). The body reacts to different wavelengths differently. In Nature, the sunrise light is orange-ish and becomes more blue-white as mid day sun, and slowly reverts to orange, red, and far red as more blue light is filtered out as sunset approaches. The white light/blue light range has higher wave energy and the body reacts with alertness, while the amber and red and far red stimulates the seratonin production which assists in sleep, healing and rejuvenation.
maybe a small LED light/lamp right over your miter saw to help with lighting there?
Unnecessary. It's plenty bright enough to see what you're doing. I just thought I would reference that it's always not as bright as the rest of the shop.
Excellent.
When you clapped at the end of the video, I thought the lights were going to turn off!
I’ve been meaning to say this for a while now: I love that you are a Detroit fan. I’m die hard and it’s great to see you showing off those sweet flags. Can’t wait to get me some Rod Allen in my life again. Go Tigers! - and go lions and wings of course.
Nothing will replace the late 90's wings in my mind.....the Russian 5....the Grind line... Stevie Y, Lidstrom, Federov, Mccarty, Draper, Kozlov, Shanahan, Larionov, Osgood, Vernon.... the Wings VS Avalanche rivalry..... I just got goosebumps.
Couldn’t agree more. Bench clearing brawls. Goalie fights (Vernon beating on Roy of course). My dad still has the Det. free press clippings in frames in his basement from those Cups. Those were the days for sure! Now It’s time for a Lombardi trophy!
McCarty recently sat in on an episode of The Detroit Cast #1005, and shares some great stories from those days. The Detroit Cast is a podcast that rose from the ashes of the once great Drew and Mike show.
Until the Claude Lemieux hit on Draper in 1996. Prob the 3rd worst hit I've ever seen behind Dale Hunter's cheap shot on Turgeon after the goal and Stevens on Lindros...and I'm a Sabres fan.
One of the first things I noticed. I was a Wings fan for the first part of my life, but when the Preds came to Nashvegas it caused a rift in my family. ;P
LED lights also reflect or bounce better and eliminate more shadows than incandescent or fluorescent lights. LED lights do play trucks with depth of field views. Many think that LEDs produce little to no heat, some LEDs get extremely hot and have cooling blocks with fins.
akbychoice yes you are correct. LED lights do generate Heat. However, the design of the lights is important in order to dissipate the Heat. Our shop lights use open LED design. The natural air flow around the LEDs helps keep them cool. Furthermore, the reflector acts as a heat sink to remove even more heat. Thirdly, we use many low-powered LED instead of smaller number of high-powered LEDs. This also means each LED is generating less Heat allowing for better heat dissipation. Many LED products can get so hot that you cannot touch them without burning yourself. However, our LED shop lights and retrofit kits don't get much hotter than body temperature, minimizing Lumen loss, and Lumen degradation.
Where is Jay?
I also don't like the buzzing from fluorescents
Sooo... you mooched these lights from this company and claim you’re not going to endorse them, but you mentioned their name and gave a rave review on the lights but you’re not being biased because you said you weren’t....
Hello idiot. I mooched lights from them? Nothing in life is free. I bartered the cost of the lights for a video showing the difference. My opinion means nothing as the video results speak for themselves. I didn't make a video showing lights and how awesome they are. I made a video showing how much better the lights are compared to what I had and gave actual results you could see. Do you not understand that?
They are called would you believe, reflectors.
“I work by candle light because power tools and electricity is for suckers.”
- hand tool only enthusiasts
Reductio ad ridiculum - logic rapists ;)
So did you post from a phone, tablet, or computer? 🤣
I can’t believe you didn’t close that dart board... 🤪
It stays open.
Fluorescent light's give a more natural light
Dude, better check your Math, Most twin tube 48 inch florescent lights with ballast, check out at like 96 watts.
You are both correct. 4ft T12 tubes are 40w per tube. 2-lamp fixtures use 80 watts , but ballast factor can make final wattage anywhere from 78 watts to 100 watts. T8 tubes are 32 watts per tube, and with ballast factor, a 2-lamp fixture consumes between 60 and 75 watts of electricity. Then there are high output (HO) tubes that are roughly double the wattage and light output.
Hail State!
Ideally, you should only shoot at ISO setting that fall into multiples of 160. So in this case, change to 320 and stop the lens down a bit. Artificial ISO settings add unnecessary noise to the image.
Ideally....yes. But modern camera sensors are fantastic at higher ISO values. Nobody is going to notice the difference between ISO 160 vs ISO 1600 from a modern Sony sensor in 4k. Especially considering TH-cam compression. I have a color correct 4k monitor and I have a hard time telling the difference between ISO 200 and ISO 800 when pixel peeping.
Another great video, thank you ! Note that human perception of lighting is a bit similar to perception of sound in that it is a logarithmic response. www.pathwaylighting.com/products/downloads/brochure/technical_materials_1466797044_Linear+vs+Logarithmic+Dimming+White+Paper.pdf [I have no affiliation with pathway.]
I noticed a lot of improvement in shadow areas in your shop with the LED's. Great !!
1 lumen = 1 candle light 👍🏼