DCEU Film & Culture Analysis - Part 1 (of 4) | Renegade Cut
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- What is tribalism and how does it damage the discourse surrounding everything from politics to popular culture? How is this related to the DC Extended Universe film franchise? Support Renegade Cut Media through Patreon: / renegadecut
#manofsteel #dceu #batmanvsuperman
Twitter: / renegadecut
Letterboxd: letterboxd.com...
Patreon: / renegadecut
BIBLIOGRAPHY AND FURTHER READING:
www.wired.com/...
screenrant.com...
www.marketingc...
filmschoolreje...
nautil.us/issue...
www.syfy.com/sy...
www.denofgeek.c...
bigthink.com/ri...
www.nytimes.co...
www.savethecat....
www.quora.com/...
• Folding Ideas - Man Of...
carbonfarm.us/3...
Part 2 debuts one week from today.
Note: Please stop trying to post links in my comments. Whether you are plugging your own work or that others, my spam folder doesn't know the difference. Also, please try to keep it clean in my comments section. Thanks.
Thanks, we appreciate it!!
By the way really liked your use of the song A better son/daughter on your 2019 preview. Not just because it is a good song that fit perfectly, but it is a excellent representation of what people with bipolar disorder (type 2) go through, which ties with my schooling (Psych nursing). Any ways thanks!
Thank you kindly!
I don't know. Like...one in a million?
Underappreciated channel. You a monster. Keep the faith, hoss. Fight the good fight (against schlock).
It's taken me THREE YEARS to finally, finally find someone who acknowledges that DC comics are goofier and Marvel comics are edgier and that this was changed for the movies and not set in stone. I've felt like a mad man for years now
One thing I always thought Nolan's Batman did really well, was even though they come off as dark at first, they're actually really well rounded: Some scenes in Gotham are dark, moody, and atmospheric, others have some light banter between Bruce and Alfred, others are full action and excitement like leaping out of an exploding monastery... there are moments of sadness and tension, but also lots of energy and adventure, and they know when to change tones at the right times.
And Batman is an actual heroic figure unlike Snyder's Batman and Superman.
@@charleynewman5057 which means you completely missed the point. He's made to be the villian for the first 2 hours. It isn't until he saves Clark's mother where he returns to the heroism he lost.
Actually I will said that for all the stuff about nolan being dark, is batman is the last dark batman of all: he have no trauma, he goes at day, he face Bane....face to face, at broad daylight, which I feel is a huge misunderstanding of the chararter.
because nolan is talented and snyder is not
Which might have worked...if he didnt go murder a warehouse full of thugs right afterwards. If his branding and killing was supposed to be a symptom of his fall, then his return to heroism would have been far better shown by having him save Martha without resorting to the same murderous violence he has been using all movie.
Why would I watch a very long video about a movie I haven't watched? Because the video seems interesting and the movie doesn't. The video might being something extra like philosophy, humor, or have a different tone or perspective.
Just realized if they had flipped the fathers motivations, Jor El overly cautious and afraid of exposure and Johnathan pushing Clark to be a hero it might have helped the movie.
"Superman is Ariel."
Okay, I'm listening...
Best part of the...is it a documentary...or critique...I...I...don't know! AAAAAGGGGHHH!
*Falls into PIT OF DESPAIR*
I always felt like Man of Steel was missing a middle act. You have a significant portion of the movie devoted to exploring Clark and his origins and suddenly Zod arrives out of nowhere.
Compare this to Batman Begins where after Bruce arrives in Gotham we get to spend some time showing off Batman defeating criminals while uncovering a mystery before we have Ra's al Ghul return to the story. Man of Steel needed something like that, Superman establishing himself in the world and people's reactions to him. It would have fit considering how much Man of Steel went on about how Clark's existence would change the world or something. Instead, they saved that stuff for Batman v. Superman cramming more shit into that bloated mess of a film.
MoS always felt like the entire first half of the movie was still the opening act.
That is not cramming but actually the plot of BvS. It is simply not the subject matter of this film, it is part of a SERIES. I bet if they added that in this movie you would be calling this a bloated mess instead. 🙄
I know this is late, but you are absolutely right. A story is beginning-middle-end not beginning-end buy the middle next year. Without that middle, the story structure collapses. Each film needs to stand on its own and not rely on the next movie to explain it.
Woot, shout out for Plastic Man and Booster Gold. Two reformed criminals trying to find redemption through super heroics.
2 relatable characters WB should go with.
In the words of the Joker:
"And...here...we...go!"
Dissonance between what the film says and what the film shows is a recurring problem with Snyder and Bay movies.
"If our media interests are narrow, so too is our worldview and our attitudes about others." ... I really like that statement. Kind of powerful.
I was a member of the DCEU "tribe" when BvS came out. I liked part of it so I felt that it was unfair that other people would complain about something I liked, as you said, it felt like some kind of personal attack. When WW came out I wasn't so hyped about DC anymore and, since it's a better movie, I started to see the difference in quality. There are still things I like about BvS and man of steel but I learned to acknowledge the problems that those movies have instead of pretending that those problems don't exist
Fiorenza Agazzi I can see what you're saying. I'm actually still a very big fan of BvS, but I'm not so ignorant that I'll ignore/avoid clear and observable criticism. I think the movie is pretty great but I can easily where the criticisms come from. I think my main issue is that some people treat their criticisms like the absolute quality evaluation of a film. As if there is one total quality standard. Because in the end an individual is still subjectively applying their perspective to that objective/scholarly/critical standard. I guess I'm just saying I didn't like the people who were sorta condescending about their take on the film haha
Everything you just said? Same, here.
Coming out of the theater, Batman v Superman easily became my Favorite Film, bar none. But in the span of the two-and-a-half years since its release, time and distance have uncovered a few cracks here and there. Not sure if it's still Favorite material, but it's not like anything else has come along to replace it in terms of emotional impact... I dunno.
It's a weird relationship. It's like, this one movie perfectly encapsulates my late Teens, how I felt, how I saw the world... but technically, I'm not a teenager anymore- I'm 20 now, big woop- and suddenly, it doesn't seem to fit the hole in my heart the way it used to. Or maybe it still fills its hole, but now there's a new one to replace it, and no new Favorite to fill in the gap...?
It's strange, how a movie can resonate so much that it starts to define you as a person, but you change, and the movie stops describing you, and then you don't quite know who you are... Anyone else feel that?
@@ericsheldahl5158 That's why if a movie feels personal to you, that's great, but you never let it become your identity. Which is a problem that the DCEU fandom had when it came to defending these films.
@@scifinerd17 I disagree, is one thing to said the movie have flaws but a lot of it was "this movie suck and the director is a hack" and them complaing by not finding a good review about it.
Full respect. Thanks for telling your story.
I think one of the big problems is this 'tribalism' makes it difficult for people to change their mind, see another's perspective, and admit their previous beliefs and actions have been less than ideal.
I welcome anyone admitting they changed their mind based on rational thinking.
As a person who knows a DCEU Tribalist who takes every criticism about things they like personally, I am fascinated to see exactly why... why are people like this?
A lot of people feel personal satisfaction and a feeling of identity from their strongly-held beliefs. Defending these beliefs gives one a feeling of integrity. For some people, these beliefs come from religion. For others it comes from comic books.
Before this video I have realized in not only media but in any aspect of life that we as humans sometimes unfortunately paint a picture of "Us vs Them" the "Them" is what's wrong, what's bad, what isn't good enough, what isn't "Us". Why political parties never get along, rival sports teams, and in this case comic books. I have always loved both DC and Marvel equally to be completely honest because at the end of the day I love comics, the dark, the silly, the sad, the hopeful. I take it for all that it is, not limiting it to what company is producing it.
Unfortunately, people's passions can be so great that it blinds them to their own negative behaviors because of their said passion and feel threatened by others who don't see the same picture.
I cant speak for them but for me, I fell in love with DC as a very young child and it makes me very emotional. I care deeply about that universe. I can't imagine having those strong feelings AND a heavy sense of your own identity being entrenched in that universe
edit: however that is never an excuse to be a bully. some of those fans' behaviour is just plain disgusting
I can't imagine a studio hearing pitches from Morrison, Johns, and Waid and then saying, "let's ask Christopher Nolan what he wants to do with Superman." And then going with that. Hollywood nepotism is comical when it fails as badly as the DCEU.
They rejected film pitches for the Superman film from Mark Waid AND Grant Morrison?! WHAAT?!! Noooooo...
jenny r ha ha I know right? Like really? Not even take a few notes from them?
Exactly my words. We can have All star superman but we have...egh...Man of steel...
@@TheEliera meh, All star words well for a comic but most of it will be just "Superman is god and is good he is one"
@@diegoernestovarelaparra3820 And yet the All-Star Superman animated movie works very well. So that "it only works in the comics" excuse doesn't make sense.
Ugh, I know! Instead of getting a true Clark Kent, a true Super-man, we got an empty idea of what the perception of what Super-man is.
Watching this, I was struck by how weird the scene with Ian Tracey's trucker character seeing his vandalized truck. This guy has no idea that superhumans exist, and yet his reaction to his truck being mysteriously trashed seems to be, "Well, what are you gonna do?"
This stuck out to me as odd too when I first saw it. Like, why wasn’t he screaming: how the fuck did my truck get up there!?!? 😯
Watching this scene of Superman on fire with his chest hair/beard unaffected by the flame REALLY just makes me wonder how the hell he was trimming his beard. Did his parents know that he'd be completely impervious to Earth materials, and include a Kryptonian shaving kit in his little baby capsule?
Great point with what a passive character this Superman is. It's almost painful watching him bumble from scene to scene, just to listen to a monologue from the Kents/Lois/Jor-El, stonefaced.
As a huge Superman fan for 35 years... THANK YOU!! This explains things SO well! Looking forward to next week.
I grew up with Marvel and DC and I love them both. With the DCEU..it's just missed potential...especially when you look at works from DC like the animated shows and such. I *want* it to be good.
I watched the DC animated shows after the films because I didn’t like the films for the reasons given in this video, and I was surprised as to how great the animated films were and as to how none of this amazing storytelling and ideas weren’t used in the films I really enjoyed them.
I like DC more than Marvel, but I haven't liked the DCEU, and its interesting because I feel so disconnected from the fans of the DCEU. They've actually made me dislike DCEU more than Marvel fans because of that tribalism.
Great start on a hard topic to discuss. Looking way forward to the IHOP talk.
Yes I completely agree. I can say that Age of Ultron and Thor the Dark World sucked without being attacked, but if I say BvS sucked the response is always that it was too smart for me or that I’m just some stupid marvel fan boy.
In reality the movie just didn’t have structure, there was no Act 2 in the movie and it was just excruciating to watch. If a marvel movie was that offensive I would have said the same thing, but the difference is that marvel makes competent movies. Thor 2 and AoU are terrible, but at least the plots had a clear build up to the end, even if the build up was lame.
And also the critic bias argument is just ridiculous to me. The movies aren’t good and I don’t know why fans of the DCEU can’t see that they lack structure, have boring characters and lack good dialogue. If anything I think a DCEU fan should demand better movies than the crap they’re getting.
Drowning Pic Productions
Yes it’s ridiculous. I love DC characters as well but these films have not been handled properly. Zack Snyder never understood or cared for the source material.
Back when I read comic books, I preferred DC too. I read Marvel as well and never got the fanbase conflict. DC just had my favorite heroes: Oracle and the rest of the Birds of Prey, Mary Marvel, Alan Scott and the rest of the JSA. They just felt brighter and more lively than the comparatively gritty Marvel heroes. (Civil War was my introduction to Marvel.) In the films, it's the opposite.
Renegade Cut
Thanks for pointing out the conflicting reasons DC tribalist try to defend the DCEU films. For example they will say the reason the films garnered negative critical reviews was because critics couldn’t handle the darkness but then in the same discussion they will argue that the films stay true to the comics, but in reality DC comics were never dark (excluding some Batman comics such as The Dark Knight Returns). This is why a lot of people compare DCEU apologist to a certain group of tribalist in politics, they always contradict themselves and make it impossible to engage in civil discourse. I do have to disagree with you about why most MCU fans are willing to admit the films are bad. It’s not because there have too many successful films and fans are willing to take an L on I few, because if you think about it MCU fans hated the FOX marvel films that were horrible movies but praised films like First Class, Deadpool, and Logan. I think MCU fans understand how movies are supposed to work. whereas DCEU fans enjoy the more Zack Snyder “style over substance” approach of filmmaking.
The fact that pitches were turned down by 3 of the best comic book storytellers of the last few decades makes me feel that not a single executive in WB understands comics
Seeing Johns name pop up made my heart physically hurt... :(
I've always felt that my problem with film criticism are the words "objective facts". I had no idea what they meant in relation to criticism within this medium. But something clicked when you mentioned "standards and short hands", and effectively described a lexicon that was built over time. So the lexicon becomes the standard by which a thing is judged. Hence, my problem (it seems) stemmed from the observation that if the lexicon/standards changed then the judgement would change too. My fallacy seems to have been in thinking that "objective facts" are _immutable_ truths, but that is not necessarily the case. Thanks for the teachable moment, just wanted to say that.
I watch this even if I have never watched a single DCEU film because I love this guy's voice and video essays, regardless of the subject.
You had me at, "very very long mini-series".
It's pretty obvious Man Of Steel just copied he non linear/flashback storytelling of Batman Begins, without understanding why it worked, or how those scenes paralleled each other. Fantastic video, I'm now subscribed!
Steven Fraser Both movies were written by the same guy though
@@Ryda124 Except one of them has Chris Nolan and Lee Smith in it. The people who has an understanding in scene infrastructures, aka editing.
orihalchon
Nolan could learn a thing or two about editing when he chops Batman into 500 scenes for an action scene.
orihalchon Nolan proved he didn't understand the batman characters he used cause he left out the nuances that make the characters so beloved today
SuperShanko I totally agree with u on that
Man, I saw Transformers: The Last Knight in the movie theaters, and I didn't notice that aspect ratio change AT ALL! It's actually kind of jarring!
I really appreciated your eloquent descriptions of toxic fandom tribalism and would love to hear more about this topic across other fandoms such as Star Wars and Star Trek. Modern as fandoms have become destructive.
I grew up reading DC comics and animated series but never knew about Marvel stories besides Spiderman. But as a sharp contrast DC movies actively try to ruin itself by adding needless exposition and bad storytelling. Whereas majority of Marvel movies genuinely tries to elevate the storytelling experience.
I remember when man of steel came out I was such a huge fan of it. But now that I'm older and I've read and watched other Superman media, I dislike this movie so much. I hope the next Superman movie has a director that actually understands and loves Superman.
What is Tribalism? -- This whole exposition is so transcendental. Swap out a word here and there and this discussion can be applied to so many facets of life.
The worst part of all of this is that there were Superman movie pitches by Grant Morrison and Mark Waid that were rejected. We really are in the worst timeline.
I am going to rewatch the Introduction from this part before each additional part. It's really good and serves as a great reminder of why this mini-series is being done in the first place.
Thank you so much for that "Art is subjective" take down. It is just so frustrating when people throw that out.
I could watch this series over and over and never get bored istg
THANK YOU for breaking down the way film critique can be objective. I'm so tired of people who try to just dismiss all criticism with "It's just my opinion," or "It's subjective anyway."
Words used to describe the dark night trilogy:
-never feels pompous
-keeps a sense of humor
-avoided accusations of pretentiousness
Did I watch different movies? Did I watch them wrong?
I'll admit to liking probably more of the DCEU movies than I should but really enjoying your discourses so far! Very underrated channel
5:34 because I enjoy listening to long form video essays while I work? (Though in this case I have seen the movie)
yeah, I felt insulted! lol
Yeah, I'm just joking around. Trying to be more playful during this mini-series.
@@renegadecut9875 we are joking too no worries :)
@@renegadecut9875 lol yeah, totally got it was a joke. Though more seriously man I watch a lot of essays about stuff I'll never watch
There could have been a great story of superman being his paragon self in a gritty world. Saving the old racist women , that is ranting at him, while he is flying her to safety etc.. Oh well.
Save Martha!
6:07 - Ha! Because he's made of STEEL! He's a "Man of Steel!" That's all I've got. Excellent video, as always. I eagerly await part 2 next week!
I have been waiting all year for this. Wrote my final dissertation on this exact subject.
Can we get a copy of that? DM me.(No really.)
frank wolftown
Yes I would like to see this as well.
Me too
I want in on this reading!
DM Me as well.
Four minutes in and I feel this will be valuable in dealing with the Star Wars tribes...
My single greatest lament of the DCEU films is its complete lack of faith in the power of its characters. Their roster is incredibly diverse. If they made a completely comic toned adaptation of their characters’ books, even somebody as C-list as Wesley Dodds or Jack Knight, or any of their Vertigo titles, they could have _destroyed_ Marvel.
I'd love to see a Sandman Mystery Theater TV series. Maybe something on Netflix.
God no, if WB decided to get their grubby corporate hands on the Vertigo characters or the Teen Titans or the Robins, they'd fuck everything up and shit all over it because they're incompetent morons.
@@diesenutss didn't they already do that with Titans?
Imagine a Jack Kirby's "New Gods" movie helmed by a competent writer/director team. Nothing Marvel has would touch it.
Titans is fine. The show's main problems have to do with the filmmaking, not the actual characters.
It so nice that someone else remembers when DC comics were the bright hopeful iconic universe and marvel was considered the gritty dark one (Peter parker seemed to kill gwen stacy, and punisher was one of their A-list heroes)
I love both universes, but I miss the days when batman was allowed to smile on a cover and be swashbuckling
"To anyone watching this who hasn't seen the movie: Why? Why would you do this thing?" I'm watching this because I want to understand "The Discourse" and I haven't watched the full movie because "the discourse" made it hard(er) to enjoy the movie.
You say "Worst video," but what I hear is "Best video about iHop." More seriously, I know you have put a lot of work into this video and this topic, and it really shows. This was fun, informative, and I am looking forward to the additional installments. Thanks for the consistently great content and happy holidays!
Great analysis as always: you put to word a lot of things I felt in watching Man of Steel but never could voice with sufficient clarity. I really look forward to the next parts.
Also, your delivery at 5:33 really cracked me up.
Thanks!
Oh man, a booster gold movie could be actually really really good! Time-traveling loser has to learn to get his head out of his own ass and learn to be a proper hero? Sign me up!
I really understood Kuleshov Effect better by understanding its lack in MoS.
I cant believe i just discovered your videos
A great video series- entertaining and insightful. However, I would point out that the people "who were reading Plastic Man and Booster Gold" are not the same DC fans becoming tribalists for the DCEU. Fans of Gail Simone or Grant Morrison aren't going to the plate to defend the Synderverse. The fans you're looking for have read a handful of comics at most (when they can even be bothered to read at all). And the comics those fans have experience with rarely extends beyond the same reading list- "The Dark Knight Returns", "The Killing Joke", "The Long Halloween" and other (mostly Batman) titles whose stature as classics in the genre are tenable at best.
I think I'm beginning to understand the divisiveness between critics and some fans on the last jedi after watching this video. Very informative.
this is really well written in every aspect. Perfectly explained all of these ideas and concepts I've thought about it. Great work. New sub.
Sweet Leon i was looking forward to this (to be honest I look forward to all of your analyses), and once I am done school and start working I will definitely join your patreon!
Thanks!
As someone who actually LIKES most of the DCEU... thanks. We really, really need to clean up the discourse. Even within the fan community, all that Tribal bullshit makes it impossible to have any serious discussion about genuine technical issues the films do face.
I mean, I really love these movies' portrayal of Superman, as resolute in his morality but uncertain in his choices or place in the world. He's actually one of the most relatable characters I've seen in film. And I loved Batman v Superman so much that it inspired my later decision to become a filmmaker. But that love doesn't stop me from cringing at Jor-El's pretentious son-you-have-to-be-Superman speeches, or being annoyed by Snyder's ham-fisted, borderline-offensive use of messianic imagery. These conversations need to be had. So, thanks.
You make some really great points about the film's structural issues. In the past, I've defended Superman's lack of a clear or coherent character arc as side effect to his fulfillment of the Paragon archetype, an unchanging pillar of morality; and that the film was more about a Paragon stepping out from the shadow of two oppressive father figures and becoming his own man. But you make a compelling argument, and I think you're right. Even if that's what it was aiming to do, it really doesn't execute it as well as it should. In the end, he does exactly what Jor-El tells him to do, and within Man of Steel, that defeats the whole point of the "freedom of choice vs. oppression" theme.
Although it IS interesting how, in the sequel, Kal-El is presented with the choice to turn his back on humanity, because they don't even seem to want him. I think he was genuinely tempted to. But in the end, he CHOSE to keep doing his thing, in spite of the criticism, the backlash, the fear, the hate. Dealing with all that takes a great deal more personal conviction than "Dad told me to." Ultimately, I think that Clark's choice to be Superman WAS really his own. Jor-El may have had this grandiose vision of guiding humanity toward the Sun, but (after the events of Man of Steel, anyway) Clark could have turned back and said "no" at any time. But instead, he said "yes"- not because someone told him to, but because he felt it was right. And in choosing to put others before himself, he chose to die.
And to me, that message is meaningful. To me, that message is powerful. To me, that message is valuable, flawed though its delivery may be.
"Will Superman decide to save people?" is a fundamentally stupid question for all the usual reasons people say, and choosing to ask it in Man of Steel was a mistake on the part of the writers. A far, far better movie could have been made out of the sort of questions and emotions that lead up to Superman's famous "world of cardboard" speech at the end of the JLU animated series.
Your writing is thoroughly entertaining and well informed; also your transitions are appealing af
"For anyone who is watching a very long video about a movie without first watching the movie, first of all, why? Why would you do this thing?"
Because the movie doesn't interest me but your videos do, haha!!
Ha! Your not goal just cracked me up. It's funny how we live in times where this needs to be pointed out.
I didn't expect to see The Master featured in this video, but I'm glad I did.
I used to dream of these movies when I was kid. Glad I was able to live long enough to see these days.
Time for the holidays to really begin
What you mentioned about 30-ish minutes in about Jor-El setting up how Clark can have the choices that he and other Kryptonians don’t have to do or be what they want; a story that executes that well is Steven Universe.
Steven is half human, half race of alien of gem people forged for a specific use. His alien mom’s message to him is that as a human he can be anything he wants to be. She never forced any responsibility but to care for his family of other aliens. Even when it’s revealed Steven’s mom is a ruler with problems she left behind, the choice to make amends is Steven’s and he chooses not to use violence like his antagonists, but with love he gained from the Earth and his family.
Also Steven Universe is a tv show with the advantage of taking multiple hours to tell its story, so there’s that...
I can't wait for part 2
You won't have to wait long. It's already done, and I'll be releasing it this coming Thursday.
I waited for all them to be out so I can binge this series!
I'm not as harsh a critic of the entire DCEU as some, but I really hated Man of Steel for all the reasons mentioned here and one more -- the characters. Or, maybe I should say the complete lack of characters. Almost everybody just kind of spouts exposition or is there to wax poetic about the movie's themes while receiving no meaningful characterization beyond their job titles
Now for number 2!
... Leon, this is so good! I think you levelled up again.
I like some of the DC films and how unique they feel compared to Marvel,but I won't ignore some issues I have with each film
Man of steel: the Out of order storytelling and overuse of Lois Lane in some scenes don't work for me.
BvS: honestly,it has some good parts to it but feels like too much is crammed into a movie,mostly with Doomsday.
Wonder Woman:Honestly perfect until the ending with Ares
Suicide Squad: listen,In some ways like Jared Letos Joker interpretation,but I despise everything about this film including Harley Quinn,Will Smith's weak portrayal of Deadshot,and waste of Viola Davis as Amanda Waller.
You had me at " I like Krull." One of Liam Neesons finest films I must say.
I love how this is both still, 100% within your ballpark of serious analysis, but also, still very jokey and "personal" for you
I watched man of steel on a long flight and gave up watching about 30 minutes into the punch out as I was so confused about what was going on. And just bored. Never been so bored in a super hero film. I'm amazed watching this just how little I remember from the film.
I can't believe I watched an hour long video of a guy defending himself for narrative deconstruction
I binged the last season of Gotham and it occurred to me that almost every character, good and evil, was elite authoritarian.
Very interesting and fun video, I appreciate the points made and I look forward to part 2.
There is one point I'm not sure if I agree with, or at least I feel is more complex, and that is the art is subjective point , most of the examples given in the video are visual examples, which were great, but I have to wonder if there is more subjectivity when it comes to story choices, like I don't know if there is an agreement on what makes a story compelling, maybe we can agree on what makes a good story structure, but can we say if making Superman kill Zod, as a story point, is a choice that makes sense for the story or not? One of the issues I often face, because I love subtlety and don't like exposition, I enjoy filling in the blanks myself, but I have often been told that no, a film must explain everything and if you make your own explanation those are just excuses, so I really want to know who decides on those things? I mean to me anything I can explian myself is not a plot hole, but to many others it is, do I just have to accept that expostion is nessesary? that doesn't sit well with me!
What a trip. Yesterday, I watched MauLer's Force Awakens video, where he went into a great deal about subjectivity and objectivity in film. Today, I stumbled across this video. I now have a greater understanding of the two. Thanks!
I’m a huge DC fan but I’m not a blind fan that thinks everything DC does is great and everything Marvel does sucks. I don’t hate Marvel and I think Marvel have done a great job with their movies and I loved all of them. I loved Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, Shazam! Aquaman. I like Justice League , Batman v Superman and Birds of Prey. As far as Suicide Squad goes...I think the casting was great but the writing was crap.
I'm here because I just love this channel's content.
I'm glad this is still up and running.
"Its not a bug, its a feature", was the DCEU made by Bethesda?
I have been trying to explain section V of this video to everyone I come across when discussing music pretty much all my life to no avail. At this point, I've given up hope of ever having a music discussion that doesn't immediately end with "music is subjective".
Now these are the kinds of videos that I subscribed to see, RC; thank you!
Zack Snyder consistently makes terrible, bad, stupid, awful movies. Prove me wrong.
It’s weird because DC has produced some of the greatest comics ever (Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, Batman Year One, Killing Joke, and many others) yet they constantly fall back on filmmakers not qualified for the material (other than Christopher Nolan). Marvel has found a rhythm with its films and an identity that DC can’t seem to find.
“Should superheroes even exist?” What if they did a movie showing the origin story of a super powered villain and then cut to a young superhero at the end or the opposite?
I've only recently discovered this channel (whilst looking for Bond stuff btw.....please do more Bond!) - anyway, really enjoying these videos, and I have a load more to work through, woo-hoo!!
I remember watching this movie in the theaters and feeling like the flashback scenes were jarring. And I thought it was because I didn't like that Man of Steel copied Batman Begins too much. This video explained that it had more to do with dissonance with the flow and themes of the narrative. I really learned something. Well done!
I was having a convo on the DC Cinematic subreddit the other day regarding the future of Darkseid in the DC films, when one of these weird tribalists chimed in ranting about how MCU Thanos is awful and Steppenwolfe was much better... Some people can't be helped.
This is really good
Thanks!
Down the rabbit hole - And I haven't been more game to journey down and into it. Thanks Renegade Cut. :)
I'm a lifelong comics fan and always loved both DC and Marvel. Personally I find the big screen versions of both an endless source of delight. And I loved Man Of Steel: I think there are perfectly good reasons for its stylistic choices. Nuff said, as Stan Leiber(a great friend of Bob Kane's) would say. And also EXCELSIOR! I recommend the Amalgam Universe, one for genuine geeks...
I'm sure others have already said this but firstly, I am so excited to see where you're going to take this as I've been really thinking about the DCEU lately and what's been going wrong with it, and it's fandom! But also I feel like one thing you hit on about the tonality was totally on point, and I feel that what made the Dark Knight work with the tone it had, while superman didn't was literally just the fact that it was a tone that fit Batman specifically, and to force that on superman was a HUGE mistake. I think DC has been consistently failing to understand the actual importance of it's characters and what kind of tone fits them. Marvel literally relies on the power of their characters' personality to maintain millions of their fans, and the day DC realizes that most people, who aren't just tribalistic, are here for the heroes and not the gritty aesthetic will be the day that changes everything.
I never know Zod was a Protector in the Larry Niven book sense! I only recently discovered your channel but wow so much interesting stuff, ideas id sort of dimly sketched out but youve drawn in crisp detail. very good stuff thankyou very much!
Interesting essay brother,
I think you should also consider within dceu fans there are Snyder-die-hard fans and DC-character fans.
I think almost all DCEU fans agree suicide squad was not good even before WW came out. Why? Probably cos it’s not Snyder’s. So both Snyder die hards and dceu character fans both agree.
Now after WW and aquaman emerged, after dceu fandom got 2 films with fine critical rating, based on your theory, you can see who among dceu fans are the Snyder-die-hard fans.
32:23 Oh my god, Leon is from Crypton. He was grown into a youtuber on another planet!
I'm sure we would now love to hear what the other pitches entailed
Brilliant! Well done!
What if Zack Snyder is literally color blind?
I think he can't read. Because he is able to recreate moments from comics but he doesn't understand the stories.
The DCEU to me just doesn't have anyone that understands the characters they are displaying.
Pretty much every character is just Batman with a slightly different narrative. Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg ALL are introduced to us by them rejecting their past/home/heroic nature and "going away to find themselves" before coming back to save people. It's boring. All of them (in the ensemble pieces at least) just feel the same, the writing just feels like it tries to be gritty for gritty's sake. None of them have any real character development other than "oh, you're the Prince of Atlantis but you don't want the responsibility" "oh, you have super speed but you don't know how to fight and just push people over and run away" "oh, you're the guy that died but then your genuis dad used a box to make you a cyborg" ... tell me much more about what Justice League really told us. Whilst this is not a problem if you, I don't know, INTRODUCE them in their own movies first (ala Marvel) but when it's your second and third movie, it's just dumb!
definitely worth the wait. great video
Thank you.