Thanks, Egonotto. You are right; the ERES math function can be used to suppress noise. Using the current clamp signal that I used in the video and ERES set to its maximum (3-bit), I see a notable noise reduction (though not as much as high resolution or averaging modes on some other scopes). The issue here is, however, that it does not work on the channel level but creates a new math channel. In the Power Analysis functions (like many other functions, e.g. serial decode, mask testing, Bode plots), you cannot select a math channel as an input; you can only select a ‘real’ channel. And in other scope modes, such as XY, the math function is disabled altogether. And it takes up one valuable math function (we only have two…). It also has a notable lower refresh rate than the original channel: with a 50Hz signal and 5ms/DIV time base, it updates only a few times per second, and when I start other compute-intensive tasks on the scope (like a bus decode), then ERES goes weird and freezes. While I have been using ERES in my early days with this scope, it kind of got into disuse over here. I love it when functions are part of a real channel. My favourite here is the PicoScope 3000 series (and probably other Picoscopes?), which has a fully configurable bandwidth (low pass) filter as part of any input channel. Wish my other scopes had that!
And I have indeed been doing some experiments with observing inrush currents configuring the trigger myself (but I did not include these in the video for length reasons). Since the inrush current can be either positive or negative, you need a smart trigger strategy. What exactly do you mean by Windows trigger? But anyway, the point of buying the Power Analysis license is that it should be able to do inrush current measurements, among other things.
@@rudiselectronicslab861 The windows trigger allows two levels and can be triggered by a negative edge as well as a positive edge. Assuming the current goes from -100 mA to 100 mA. Then you can set one trigger level to 50 mA and the other to -50 mA and the time base to 50 ms, then you get the first 250 ms after switching on. In this case you would not necessarily need the windows trigger.
you might need to reduce the sample rate on the siglent when using ERES for your current probe to reduce the bandwidth. Otherwise since you are principally interested in harmonics of the fundamental use averaging on the current trace.
Thanks for the comment. I can reduce the sample rate, but still then I can not use the ERES function (which is a math trace) as input to the Power Analysis functions (or most other functions either). You advise me to use averaging on the current trace if I am interested in measuring harmonics, but how do I average? It seems the scope does not support that...
Instead of using Eres on the Siglent you can try and set the aqcuisition mode to Averages. For the inrush measurenent I think you have to acknowledge the popups first before doing the action. So first close the popup and then switch off the power. The same with the second popup, first acknowledge and then switch on the transformer.
>> Instead of using Eres on the Siglent you can try and set the aqcuisition mode to Averages. If you can only tell me how to do that! As far as I can see, that function does not exist (you can only select 'normal' or 'peak detect'). As a math function, apart from 'ERES', there are also 'averages'. According to the manual, it "Averages multiple traces [in time] and displays the resulting trace”)". It requires a periodical input signal and requires very tight triggering (which can be an issue in the presence of noise (which is the reason you use it...). Using the LPF in triggering helps. But the main issue is that since averages is a math function (not part of a normal trace) it cannot be used as input for any analysis.
@@rudiselectronicslab861 I'm writing this from my holiday home near Oss so I am not able to check it right now. But if you click the Aqcuire menu and then click Aqcuisition you should be able to choose from a list: Normal, Peak detect, Average or Eres. You can set the amount of averages as well. The eres function does oversampling to add more bits.
@@breedj1 Interesting. But if I go into the Acquire menu on my device, there is just "Normal" and "Peak Detect". Nothing more. Also the manual (version EN01C) only mentions these two modes here. Are we talking about the same scope? Mine is the SDS2000X plus series, running the latest FW (1.6.2R5). But if you can tell me how to do averaging in the acquisition menu, I'd be more than happy!
@@rudiselectronicslab861 Funny. I just looked up some manuals of the sds2000x. An older one says it can be found under the acquisition menu. But the one I found at the eleshop site says it is now a math function instead as well as eres. They must have changed it. But not for the good I suppose. I actually have a sds5000x with older firmware. I will try and update and see if it has changed in the weekend.
For the sds5000x the averages can still be found under acquisition menu after the firmware update to the latest version. The function is mentioned in the sds2000x manual so it must be available. It should be standard on almost every digital scope. Unfortunatly I cannot test it. I do not have sds2000x. The sds5000x update unfortunatly does not have the new analys function for measuring the serial signal specs. So the firmware must be different fot both I suppose. Today I will be receiving my new rigol dho804. Finally a 12 bit scope. It is 70MHz but can be hacked to 100MHz and 50Mpt and some extra functions. There is also a video where someone made a battery pack for it. It might be handy, also when you need a scope which is not referenced to mains earth. It is also possible to add an extra screen and WiFi dongle, mouse and keyboard. With the extra screen you can get extra resolution as well. Can't wait.
dont you have adjustable/variable H/L bandpass filters on these oscilloscopes so you can easily clean signals for noise.? I recall R&S do have it, but I don't know it its variable, or maybe its first on MSO4 and 5 series that you get variable bw filters...
Hello, the ERES math function is available for the SDS2104X Plus. This should filter the noise.
The inrush current can be seen with windows trigger.
Thanks, Egonotto.
You are right; the ERES math function can be used to suppress noise. Using the current clamp signal that I used in the video and ERES set to its maximum (3-bit), I see a notable noise reduction (though not as much as high resolution or averaging modes on some other scopes).
The issue here is, however, that it does not work on the channel level but creates a new math channel. In the Power Analysis functions (like many other functions, e.g. serial decode, mask testing, Bode plots), you cannot select a math channel as an input; you can only select a ‘real’ channel. And in other scope modes, such as XY, the math function is disabled altogether. And it takes up one valuable math function (we only have two…). It also has a notable lower refresh rate than the original channel: with a 50Hz signal and 5ms/DIV time base, it updates only a few times per second, and when I start other compute-intensive tasks on the scope (like a bus decode), then ERES goes weird and freezes. While I have been using ERES in my early days with this scope, it kind of got into disuse over here.
I love it when functions are part of a real channel. My favourite here is the PicoScope 3000 series (and probably other Picoscopes?), which has a fully configurable bandwidth (low pass) filter as part of any input channel. Wish my other scopes had that!
And I have indeed been doing some experiments with observing inrush currents configuring the trigger myself (but I did not include these in the video for length reasons). Since the inrush current can be either positive or negative, you need a smart trigger strategy. What exactly do you mean by Windows trigger?
But anyway, the point of buying the Power Analysis license is that it should be able to do inrush current measurements, among other things.
@@rudiselectronicslab861 The windows trigger allows two levels and can be triggered by a negative edge as well as a positive edge. Assuming the current goes from -100 mA to 100 mA. Then you can set one trigger level to 50 mA and the other to -50 mA and the time base to 50 ms, then you get the first 250 ms after switching on.
In this case you would not necessarily need the windows trigger.
Excellent video and help me decide on licensing the PA feature. It seems Siglent rushed this software.
Thanks for the compliment! Perhaps they rushed it. But in that case, they could have addressed issues in a firmware update, I'd say...
you might need to reduce the sample rate on the siglent when using ERES for your current probe to reduce the bandwidth. Otherwise since you are principally interested in harmonics of the fundamental use averaging on the current trace.
Thanks for the comment. I can reduce the sample rate, but still then I can not use the ERES function (which is a math trace) as input to the Power Analysis functions (or most other functions either).
You advise me to use averaging on the current trace if I am interested in measuring harmonics, but how do I average? It seems the scope does not support that...
Instead of using Eres on the Siglent you can try and set the aqcuisition mode to Averages.
For the inrush measurenent I think you have to acknowledge the popups first before doing the action. So first close the popup and then switch off the power. The same with the second popup, first acknowledge and then switch on the transformer.
>> Instead of using Eres on the Siglent you can try and set the aqcuisition mode to Averages.
If you can only tell me how to do that! As far as I can see, that function does not exist (you can only select 'normal' or 'peak detect').
As a math function, apart from 'ERES', there are also 'averages'. According to the manual, it "Averages multiple traces [in time] and displays the resulting trace”)". It requires a periodical input signal and requires very tight triggering (which can be an issue in the presence of noise (which is the reason you use it...). Using the LPF in triggering helps. But the main issue is that since averages is a math function (not part of a normal trace) it cannot be used as input for any analysis.
@@rudiselectronicslab861
I'm writing this from my holiday home near Oss so I am not able to check it right now. But if you click the Aqcuire menu and then click Aqcuisition you should be able to choose from a list: Normal, Peak detect, Average or Eres. You can set the amount of averages as well.
The eres function does oversampling to add more bits.
@@breedj1 Interesting. But if I go into the Acquire menu on my device, there is just "Normal" and "Peak Detect". Nothing more. Also the manual (version EN01C) only mentions these two modes here. Are we talking about the same scope? Mine is the SDS2000X plus series, running the latest FW (1.6.2R5). But if you can tell me how to do averaging in the acquisition menu, I'd be more than happy!
@@rudiselectronicslab861
Funny. I just looked up some manuals of the sds2000x. An older one says it can be found under the acquisition menu. But the one I found at the eleshop site says it is now a math function instead as well as eres. They must have changed it. But not for the good I suppose.
I actually have a sds5000x with older firmware. I will try and update and see if it has changed in the weekend.
For the sds5000x the averages can still be found under acquisition menu after the firmware update to the latest version.
The function is mentioned in the sds2000x manual so it must be available. It should be standard on almost every digital scope. Unfortunatly I cannot test it. I do not have sds2000x.
The sds5000x update unfortunatly does not have the new analys function for measuring the serial signal specs.
So the firmware must be different fot both I suppose.
Today I will be receiving my new rigol dho804. Finally a 12 bit scope. It is 70MHz but can be hacked to 100MHz and 50Mpt and some extra functions.
There is also a video where someone made a battery pack for it. It might be handy, also when you need a scope which is not referenced to mains earth. It is also possible to add an extra screen and WiFi dongle, mouse and keyboard. With the extra screen you can get extra resolution as well. Can't wait.
dont you have adjustable/variable H/L bandpass filters on these oscilloscopes so you can easily clean signals for noise.?
I recall R&S do have it, but I don't know it its variable, or maybe its first on MSO4 and 5 series that you get variable bw filters...