22:25 Coleda was bugged, her core passive gave her -30% stun instead of +30% stun, she is fixed now, but it's not yet reflected on Prydwen, now she deals the most stun out of all characters
@@IyoXSKoleda was my first S rank and benched her for Anby pretty early on. Wasn't sure if I was just bad or didn't understand how I was supposed to play her. I saw recently that Koleda's passive was bugged and was actually debuffing her instead of being a buff so I gave her another shot and the difference was night and day. I wouldn't feel right putting Koleda and Anby in the same tier after testing the difference between them. Her energy is kind of annoying early on but she really gets going a lot faster if you parry her in. 11/Koleda/Lucy and Koleda/Lucy/Piper feel a million times better after the bug fix
I think Prydwen should have 2 versions (personally) of their tier lists, one with standard w engines, and one with Signature. The reason is because sometimes core features WILL be locked behind W engines, either rotation or dmg (the main problem is rotations). Sometimes you will be able to skip a W engine, and sometimes you won't to have a complete character. This has happened in HI3, PGR and will happen in ZZZ. HSR is almost there, with units like Topaz showing vast differences in performance with and without sig (not just in terms of dmg, but also team building)
Genshin spoiled a whole lot of people by letting them ignore weapons, but it's been pretty apparent in both the direction of HSR and ZZZ that they want weapons to be important again.
Even understanding that a character needs their W-Engine to be complete doesn't help THAT many players, especially this early. You have to rely on luck or the shop. 600 shop currency will take you at least 500-600 pulls, so we're talking about month 3-4 at the earliest. Their baseline tier list should reflect that, otherwise it's just like talking to a mirror. Even if you think S-rank W-Engines are mandatory, nobody is gonna have them shits yet
@@Mann42 the problem is Genshin is the first Gacha for a lot of people so they don't know that traditionally sig weapons are so much more important. ZZZ is gonna be a rude awakening for a bunch of them.
@@ohheylads to be fair no one knows how to play a hoyo-dna game that time aside from primitive hi3 players, but yeah these tier lists are still wack esp before the tweaks
Those tier lists predated the theorycrafting community. It was the TC community that told everyone that Bennett was top tier. Hoyoverse games follow a certain combat design template so it's easier to make calculations for their new games. For example, the early game calcs for HSR aged really, really well.
10:40 watch when Zenless becomes more technical or involved to defeat harder bosses ppl will cry it’s too much work or bosses require too much because they can’t mash their way through and then act like they didn’t have 6+ months to learn and adapt to this before it got there. I’m calling it!
That's what I've been saying. There's no pleasing gamers anymore. Negative feedback gets the most attention. Zzz is pretty technical. When it first launched everyone button mashed through the tutorials and did not try to learn anything. Still don't😂 they try to compare it to games like elden ring saying it does have this doesn't have that. Funny thing is. It has everything elden ring has 😂
@@jes-missyou I play Wuwa and they do the same complains and I’m betting some of these ppl aren’t past lvl70 Hologram battles waiting till they out level it🤣
I mean yeah it's hoyo players 😂 genshin is insanely easy. I remember when they didn't want a harder endgame with more rewards because they knew they wouldn't be able to get them lol
How is it technical? Everyone who tries to defend the game just tries to deny the obvious. Tell me in what way is it complex? I think it's fine the way it is, simple and relaxing. But it definetely isnt a masterclass in gameplay. Anyone who says you need to stop spamming in order to actually get through endgame content is lying. Only exceptions are zhu yuan and maybe ellen but even then you just gotta farm charges and then use them. "It has everything elden ring has" is 100% copium. @@via_kole
I agree about the supports, I'm surprised Soukaku is up so high considering how slow her animations are and ramp up time. Yeah she's got a great buff but considering they mention the speed / ease of use in their major decisions I expected her to be a little lower. Not that she's bad of course, just requires more field time than the other A-Rank supports. That said, while I do think signature weapons are important to kits, I think this early a lot of people won't have those signatures much like how they won't have multiple copies of A Ranks. I think it'd be better to consider those after a few patches similar to how Eidolons were eventually added in HSR.
@@C2DDthe thing with her buff is that other support buff are better that’s why her buff last so long. %atk in this game definitely don’t calculate like Genshin, it’s seem to be much higher value
HUGE disagree on ranking characters based on having their signature. If im looking up a tier list to see how good Zhu Yuan is, and it says shes the best in the game im assuming that's via just getting her and building her with drive disks and skills and whatnot. If i learned that tierlist placement only applies to pulling for her Wengine as well id be pretty upset. I hear there js a sperate ranking for signature wengines, which is great, but honestly ranking characters on their own is pretty important as not everyone is going to pull for Wengines for each character they have, not to mention wengine rankings themselves could be separate
my mono electric team (anton, anby, rina) could not work without anby, and with grace, its just confusing and hard to see the shock, and with my normal team anton made more dmg than in the iron witch story (i dropped anby and it became worse) with grace, overall, team building is very important in this game, with koleda you either build dps ben or soldier 11, or you loose the team effect since lucy don't realy have many team but she is top tier support (much likely to be bennet from genshin momment)
Woooooah. I absolutely love Grace. I thought I spoke on her, but that's my bad. TLDR; Grace is deserving of T0.5, but I value her to an incredible degree. I'm working on Ellen first, but I'll release a Grace guide most likely next week. I won't have time this week due to EVO, but I didn't even realize I skipped over Grace. I'd be crying about that too. xD
Good stuff Iyo. I have to say Koleda is an absolute beast of a stunner, still being slept on. Dodge counter into EX along with basic 3 and 4, for days.
Well she was just fixed like 3 days ago which is not reflected in Pyrdwen's list yet. I'm sure she'll move up once they factor in the massive bug fix with her stun.
One problem right now is we are still very early. Ice seems a lot better because Ice has a lot more of its core and Victoria Housekeeping is complete. Also some elements don’t have everything they need. Anby will get better when we get a S Electric Attacks and when Zhu Yuan comes out because Nicole will slot there, and this Anby gets her buff with the Cunning Hairs. Pubsec, The Defense Force, and Sons of Calydon have a lot more potential and the characters that can benefit those characters can get more use.
Also want you to add to Iyo’s Solider 11 bit, I’ve had a lot of success with S11, Lucy and Ben. Ben is 100% slept upon. Damage, stun and crit rate buff. If you use Quick Assist you negate is major weakness.
@@pdmerritt Yes and its kind of how you end up building a lot of teams. Mono element is good because you can build the anomaly easier everyone gets their core passive. The factions give you a lot more freedom. Right now, Zhu Yuan gets shackled a bit to Andy because Nicole is there and she gives Anby her core passive until 1.1 where she gets two other characters that can fill the third slot. This will be more important if you want to replace Nicole. I think Mono will be less desired once more characters come out and we get better with the Disorder reaction
My Koleda is constantly now mvp after the fix. Her normal attack chain is quite clunky but the s make her insane. Her dodge counter is the best though.
@@guiltycross IMHO, the clunkiness is gone if you have Ben on the team also. Ben can feel clunky if you don't play him properly though. Otherwise it works surprisingly well.
I know this hurts your soul, but my guy... I come to you honestly, as a Stylish Action Game player, and a Fighting Game player myself... These characters have rotations. Sure they have "combos" absolutely, but those combos are completely void. They do not matter. The reason I say this is because of how these mechanics overlay on top of eachother. Let me explain - - This is a gacha game with DPS gated content - Each character has 8 billion stats and abilities to upgrade - Performance is not measured outside of speed of DPS in stage This is important because while the foundation for combos, creativity and reactivity is there... it's completely underutilized. Players are punished for not committing to an optimal rotation, and combat stages are urged to be cleared as quickly as you possibly can. What results is using stun to force enemies into a vulnerable state (stunned enemies take more damage) and then doing burst damage. There is no world where playing outside of this strategy is optimal or decreases clear times. I have been consistently getting sub 30 seconds on my SSS Victoria team (Lyc/El/Rina), where I simply play a basic rotation game. If I try anything outside of that optimal rotation my DPS drops. Aside from that juggles are redundant due to flinch being a state that is equivalent to juggle state. They're interchangeable. The issue is that the devs/hoyo have tried to blend two game design ethos together that do not mix. They need to wall off content behind daily engagement, and resource bloat... This forces you to level characters at a snails pace to keep the player from advancing and making progress to quickly. These games are designed around some of the most jacked up psychological analytics regarding marketing, engagement, and addiction. What this has done is create an illusion... or rather... potential that gets completely wasted. There is no reason to play what's fun when the game actively punishes the player for it to urge them towards optimal play and possible spending - since that's the end goal. Make you pay for your experience. ZZZ (like WuWa) is in this weird place, where mechanics are so good and borrowed from the best action/fighting games in the business... but completely underutilized and not properly rewarded in place of traditional MMO/Rotation based gameplay rooted entirely DPS. The fact that ZZZ bases so much of it's value in character DPS, and stats hinders any execution based gameplay we might have access to - based solely on the content we have to play with said mechanics. Shiyu favors DPS, Hollow Zero favors DPS, Notorious Hunts favor DPS. What the game needs in my honest opinion is a mode where all we are rewarded with a score based on player execution. Give us ratings based on damage taken, juggles, switch tech used, anomally's proc'd... etc. etc. make it like Arcade mode in FFXVI, or Bloody Palace... No resources, no chrome, nothing but the reward of a score and mode of infinitely spawning waves of enemies that we can enjoy just playing with the combat in. As it stands it feels like all gear is tailor made to enforce grinding (which makes sense because gacha). The lab doesn't cut it, because it doesn't effectively matter in the end. I can spend hours in there concocting sick combos and then see my times plummet because they're sub-optimal to the core content. It's effectively hurt my enjoyment of the game. I find no reason to play around with the content, to make matters worse is that the actual combos we can create just aren't that interesting compared to WuWa which channels it's action game spirit more effectively. I think people that complain that these combos are just for looks and have no application are goofy and have never seen a combo vid of Bayo, DMC, W101 or anything... these dudes act like Desk ain't shit --- when they themselves couldn't execute those combos if they tried. What I've learned from all this is that I wish ZZZ was just a regular game and not a gacha... but it is what it is. All this tech, and these mechanics go to absolute waste on content that is geared towards maxing DPS and hitting the same 4 buttons in order, over and over again with maybe a parry or dodge here and there. The game has/had so much potential to make itself welcome to regular action gamers, but it failed... I don't think it's recoverable either. Unless they add some for funsies mode that lets us experience the combat freeform without compromising their business model - and their very barebones lab isn't cutting it so far.
For some teams, yes, but I do think there are many teams (like the Nekomata team) where you are better off without a stunner and having stun be a bonus as opposed to a goal. these teams are far less formulaic and will have more variation (due to the enemy not being stunned). and even the more formulaic teams, like the ice team, has a decent amount of variation. if you take the ice team for example, you have to mix building Ellen's stacks, Sokaku's stacks, energy for their specials, and daze while also making sure you trigger the stun on the right character so you can make sure that Sokaku's chain goes into Ellen who really want's to be the last one. even from there you need to adapt your combo depending on how much ex bar you managed to build. and how long the enemy will be stunned for. It may not be to the level of some other games but it is not pure rotations like you say.
W-Engine baseline should be contingent on how difficult it is to obtain. In WuWa you can get 3 standard weapons of your choice fairly early in the game, so it makes sense to use them in that game. In ZZZ the standard W-Engines are completely random, so it's incredibly likely that your Tier List will be flawed for a high % of players. It makes slightly more sense for characters like Ellen tho since you can more easily guarantee getting her signature. Maybe a fix for this could be to assume they have P5 A-rank and put a "+1 Sig" or "+2 Sig" if the character gets bumped up 1-2 tiers with access to their signature.
Nicole and Zhu Yuan are basically the Nihility units. They're just gonna go up in tiers as more Either units come out. The fact that Either is so rare is telling. We're just missing an Anomaly, Stun, and Defense. Also, I feel A-rank units should be evaluated at M6. F2P will get them eventually and in situations like Soukaku, where it's clear they're basing her position at M6, we should really be looking at the full potential. M6 Nicole is tier 0.5 and will likely go up once Zhu Yuan comes out.
I think it is because of we are still on early game so they only use m0 on tierlist. Because back then I remember prydwen use e0 in early patch hsr but right now they already use e6 for 4 star character
M6 should actually never be an option cause there will always be new players to start and u cant just say everyone got those chars to M6. If even they need to make a comment and place them different like in HSR where 4* C6 are ranked different to their C0.
27:30 it's in combat and out of combat attack. That's the difference. Atk% from in combat isn't additive with out of combat, it's a separate multiplier of Brimstone being multiplied of TOTAL ATTACK during combat at the time that atk buff from the w-engine passive activates. the main state atk% is applied out of combat and is used towards the total attack value.
Corin is so underrated by many of you guys. Corin is not suppose to be on the field most of the time. The situation to switch her out are: block and counter, or being the last one in the chain attack, or when the enemies are break use her ult and EX special attack, or switch her with Assist attack (no joke, if you can trigger her assist attack very often, very solid easy dmg from her).
Definitely agree. Not rolling Ellen so have been using Corin as my DPS and she is carrying me in HZ and Shiyu. Got the BP attacker weapon and she has sky rocketed even more.
Corin deals crazy damage to stunned enemies, you can literally one-shot all elites with her ex special. Stun, delete, repeat. It's even easier with a good support. I managed to defeat bosses like the butcher and the big robot guy in only two stuns and a little bit extra damage after.
@@ok10469 to be fair, i don't think you should look too hard at roles. I use Anby, which is a stun unit, as my main dps and billy as sub dps with nicole as support to pull units in. Anby isn't an attacker, yet she's my main dps and billy is an attacker yet he's more sub dps.
I mostly agree with your assessment of the tier list. I think Neko is incredibly strong and it's insane to me that she's so 'low' in the tier list. I also completely agree that Nicole is being slept on currently. She is absolutely insane. Just looking at her kit alone should make people think tier 0 or tier 0.5.
Yeah, I've been calling people that think she's bad just blatantly insane. Currently she mostly exists for some d shred and grouping, but the second an ether dps drops she will quickly be considered an utterly crazy good support.
@@crystalsaria5625 Are... are you kidding me. She floods out Shred to remove the need for pen, has absolutely no real stat requirements beyond energy gen. Provides enough Ether damage boost the Ether DPS she's sidekicking for can just focus Attack and Crit/Crit damage.
@@jbreitz87An interesting caveat of this is how pen ratio will work with it. Like does pen ratio affect defence before or after the defence shred, if its before then for some it may be beneficial to go for pen instead of dmg bonus if their dmg bonus sources are high already. If it’s after, that’s negative synergy as pen ratio becomes weaker. Not sure how it works myself.
@@crystalsaria5625Soukaku is quite reliant on the damage dealer being ice, as other than the attack buff, the rest of her kit ties to being an ice damage dealer. Lucy alternatively is quite general and contributes a significant amount of damage with her minions while also providing a 600 attack bonus, 400 less than Soukaku but the minions will overall supplement the damage and performance increases at higher investments. Nicole alternatively performs better the weaker your dps is as def shred is more valuable at higher levels and sometimes your dps just isn’t built fully yet. If your dps is built def shred is still strong and she takes up little on field time at all so your dps spends more time attacking.
@@crystalsaria5625 Attack is not everything in the world. Say we had asta in this game and she could only buff attack and say she has level 8 talent. That’s 61.5% attack buff. If we take Billy whos attack isn’t that high compared to S rank attackers, and A rank w engine starlight for even less base attack. Asta buffs him with ~850 attack, nearly the same as soukaku’s max buff and for S rank dps, probably the same. But does this make asta’s attack buff contribution to damage extremely good in hsr? No it does not. Now asta has a speed buff and that makes her nice but it’s the same argument here. If soukaku loses ice dmg bonus buff, ice pen doesn’t matter, and it’s just attack it just is not better than other supports. Different Damage modifiers are multiplicative, going all in on attack is just bound to have diminishing returns. Mind you this also applies to any singular modifier. Furina for instance does better with hp instead of hydro dmg specifically because her dmg bonus is so high already until C2 Edit: to not be disingenuous, I understand HSR is a different game with a base attack being upwards of like 1300, and its relics have higher stats as well by about 19%, so attack may be more valuable in ZZZ than in HSR. However I feel that typical damage methodology still applies and the differences are not large enough to skew team building, stacking all in on attack will be less worthwhile than spreading out the damage modifiers. Look at jingliu for instance, popping like a 3k attack buff but still not the strongest dps in the game. The lower stats thing also lends to it that all stats are also more valuable at the same levels. Like 15 crit rate boost in other hoyo games is nice but in ZZZ it’s far more impactful as that’s the equivalent to a full crit substat on a disk drive which is something Nicole m6 pops on the party.
Most definitely! I tested it today when got Lucy. My team is Anby, S11, Lucy but I might have to level up my piper cuz she’s good with them. Def slept on.
I was running a full Ice Team (Ellen, Soukaku, Lycaon), but switched Rina in to replace Soukaku because of her QoL benefits. Being able to proc Quick Assists from both ranged and close-up really made the game faster and more pleasant to play. No need to run after spread out enemy units if Rina (or Nicole) can just teleport your melee DPS onto the enemy. Damage numbers have been comparable between Rina and Soukaku for me, but I'm still in early-ish game (lvl 26), so they might start to pull apart in late game. I still haven't unlocked Rina's Core F upgrade, so she might scale higher with more Pen Ratio, or she might fall behind Soukaku on a full Ice Team, but for playability, it's hard to go back to Soukaku with her slow wind up and melee range.
Naaah, I thought I spoke about her earlier on in the video for T0 section! If not, there’s another comment where I have a TLDR on my opinion of Grace. I didn’t mean to skip over baby girl if that’s what happened. 😅
@@IyoXS T0 section was basically just Ellen and Soukaku, which then panned into the Support talk, Lycaon wasn't spoken about too much either 😂 It's okay though, I think I've got an idea what you think of both (can't find the comment). Would be nice to hear your input on Zhu's potential teams, seeing as she can pair with any Support (Not Attribute), if you'd care to make a video about that at some point. I'm unsure about Zhu's attribute application, but it would be interesting to see if she could do well with Grace + Rina (They all, 3/3, get Core Passive in this team) and how it would compare to the Anton team.
i was sad losing to Nekomata but after building her, man, she is so good and so much fun to play. i now have Ellen on 1st team and Neko on my 2nd team. I was lucky enough to get her C1
Im not gonna lie bro, you're way too fixated on flashy combos and juggles when 90% of the endgame content is dps against bosses that are knockup immune. Trash mobs are already stunlocked by basic attack strings, so theres no reason to switch cancel or use EX meter to keep them juggled. This is not a fighting game, its an ARPG. Damage rotations are the main skill expression this game has to offer, as well as situational awareness and attack timings. Im not on the "button mashing" train but you're kidding yourself bringing up gold elo fighting game experience.
100% agree with piper. She is insane. She is on my current favorite team Grace/Piper/Rina and it is ridiculous. Grace applies shock sooooo damn fast and piper comes in with massive disorder damage it's so fun
Just wanted to say I've been checking out a lot of channels since ZZZ's launch looking for "the one" to follow long-term, and I think this is the one. Keep up the good work.
“Mega attack” means final damage multiplier, meaning it multiplies damage on top of any other buff already active instead of having a diminishing return
I think sokaku being top tier is because you have either Ice DPS (Ellen) or Ice Stun (Lycaon). If u dont have any of those character, building nicole/lucy will become more relevant because u can either pair it with character with same faction or element. Sokaku being ice is has very limited option, her factions is only her right now.
I don't understand. What other metric is there other than damage? What do you mean by "performance"? You don't disagree with the current ice team being the best damage wise (there was even a video I saw where, despite having an element disadvantage in Shiyu Defense, it still cleared faster than other teams), but performance-wise? Is it because it's harder or easier to use? Right now it's undeniably the best and feels pretty good to play.
I think there’s quite a few billy break downs on TH-cam where he’s up close maneuvering with his crouching shots and his damage bonus when he’s close to the enemies, I don’t really play him so I’m not sure but have you checked those out?
I agree about weapon is heavily hold the Valkyries potential in HI3rd. When you pull for the Valkyrie and don't have her weapon, you will see the big difference even for the playstyle or the access of the certain combo. Especially when doing some weekly boss and compare your score with the other guy on the leaderboard
Idk if you already knew, but Koleda's passive was bugged and was working against her, instead of giving her more daze, it gave her less daze, since the bugfix I've noticed how much daze she does vs anby is day and night, she stuns enemies twice as fast in my experience since the bug fix.
The Nicole 360 tech is harder to do if you play on mkb. You need to rebind you skill key from E to be able to WASDW while holding skill. It's still doable, but a lot less trivial for those who play on mkb. I would definitely consider it a more advanced tech in the sense that casual players that use mkb probably will never bother to rebind their skill key and learn it.
At first i was a little sad about pulling 11 cause i was really hoping for Lycaon, but after learning 11's mechanics and timing, I feel like she's just way better for constant damage output then people give her credit for, i've been pairing her with anby and Soukaku and i can switch tech, perfect dodge, perfect parry bosses into constant damage between proccing shock, freeze and burn.
i started swapping bangboo's now too to compliment disorder builds, if i know i got grace or piper that insta procs anomaly-- then i can proc shock/assault and then disorder with an S tier bangboo through and pop it with the other element. So the bangboo sort of acts like a 2nd anomaly character.
I call the “quick assists” tag attacks. Also I believe the tier list is for this rotation of defense only and not in general, I can understand the placement more in that context at least because I don’t believe the entirety of the ice team is T0 either, BUT, as a team, and in this rotation? Sure, I’ll give it to em
30:48 I don't think this is true. It seems like only the active character is able to build up anomaly. Guoba Uncertified mentions it near the end of his anomaly and disorder guide video
Idk about that specifically? I tested it just to be sure, but... I can build up whatever anomaly I want, regardless of who is active. If you're referring to the actual 'pop' of the Anomaly effect, then yes. Only the active character can trigger the 'pop', but based on what I was explaining at 30:48, Neko would trigger the pop anyway. Here's a streamable of me demonstrating this particular statement you quoted is not true (it'll auto delete itself in 2 days cause I'm not paying for the website). streamable.com/kvrs5r
@@IyoXS I see. Guoba's terminology was a bit confusing since he said you won't apply the anomaly, but I guess you can build it without actually getting the proc. Good to know. I like that implementation. Thanks for checking!
You can build up the anomaly, but you can swap off the unit before it PROCS the anomaly itself is what my video discussed. Anomaly isn't just a one time thing, it's a constant build up of an element
So character based tier lists are great and all, but perhaps you could do a tier list of the best teams? (If you’re looking for content ideas) With some team guides? I hear S11/Piper/Lucy is a goated team but I don’t know why or how to play it.
would personally prefer if prydwen eval’d characters individually and didn’t boost/downgrade characters largely based on synergy with one specific team (universal usefulness is valid)
So before I even type this I want you to know that this is meant as a compliment. When I watched your first video I legit thought you were just being a snob with the whole "im a fighting game person" view on why people were going to miss certain things about the game. However after logging a TON of time and getting my team a little more optimized, ESPECIALLY in the higher Zone Zero modes, I have decided that you were SPOT ON. The combat system is incredible and its caused me to tap into reflexes that I havent needed since Killer Instict 2 back in the SNES days lol. The tag system is pretty briliant and each charector has a bunch of little subtle things that you only learn by playing them and screwing around a bunch. Ellen is the most fun gacha charector ive ever played. Keep up the good work.
I disagree with the evaluation of The Brimstone, mostly because while it's true that it's multiplicative attack bonus that's easy to access, it's basically a floor BECAUSE it's completely generic. Many signature weapon have similar 'mega attack' bonuses that are 'harder to active', but for the actual character themself, the difficulty is fake, and it's very easy to activate for that character and provide a much larger bonus. In any situation a signature weapon offers a worse bonus than Brimstone, you can just toss Brimstone on them, because it's mechanics are so generic/easy you could put it on any (attack) character, thus it's a floor, any (atk) W-engine that gives worse number than it is a bad w-engine and in any evaluation of quality of a w-engine you can just compare directly and if uptime as percentage time bonus is less than Brimstone, it's probably bad. The issue is, this doesn't mean it is bad, but it is, at least, the worst good (atk) w-engine. Anyways, I might be a little salty, cause the game spat out 2 S-rank w0engines at me from the standard banner and I'm suffering from having only 2 ranks agents, the first your guaranteed to get from the standard and a second from a pity off the rate-up banner.
Nicole defs the best tag assist in the game, getting her Cinemas up with Zhu Yuan banner is gonna be insane. I ditched my Ellen acc because Soldier is the funnest with the highest potential.
I just wanna share a fun fact about anby and soldier 11 When fighting the giant robots that has a machine gun on their shoulder only anby and soldier 11 can block that attack They deflect the bullets while other character just tank ot
Its the coolest and best balanced gacha-game out there in aspects off grinding diffeculty! NO annoying open-world, a cute cozy city with lots to explore and a lot of cute little stories, supercool satisfying fights, lovely but also crazy characters, all the features and things you can do are so cool. Also all these puzzles in the caves - a wonderfull new and innovative way in the gacha-world! Next to Wuthering Waves its the best and most entertaining ga-ga "for me". And who dont want to own and manage a vhs-rentalstore ;-) Played to level 30 in three days because I couldnt stop. Just bought the battlepass but got already so much luck getting grace, soukaku 4x, soldier 11, lucy 3x, piper 3x, Ellen, etc. - And DUDE...parries are soooo satisfying!
This game will need 2 tier lists, 1 for *with signature weapon* and one with *good f2p friendly weapons* a very large % of players won't be able to get multiple s rank weapons, let alone signature weapons for every character.
11:00 It's not a day and age thing, it's a gacha thing. People that are actually interested in mechanical depth generally don't play gacha games, they play actual fighting games, or soulslike games and the rest. Gacha has always been, and always will be aimed at a way more casual crowd, because the financial model is reliant on having an enormous player base with lots of variety in it so they keep spending money. If the game is hard they won't play and won't spend. Simple business strategy
You hyping up Nekomata has me excited. She was the S rank I pulled initially, and I wasn't sure how to feel about it at first. I managed to get Lucy and Piper, heard they worked well with her, and have been trying to make that my first team. But I'd love to heat what you'd do. Sounds like I was on the right track with Piper at least.
My dream is to get Nekomata, she's so fun to play. But I got Grace first, and now I just got Soldier 11. I didn't even level her up. But now you said you can play her alongside Grace and Lucy, I'm kinda curious. Can you really do without a stunner?
Just got Lycaon and would love to see a video about his combos, perhaps as a section in your upcoming Ellen guide? I haven't really labbed much with him, but my first reaction was that I prefer Anbys moveset lol
Great content because it gives me some insight. Side note: my favorite team has been ( Ellen Lycan Grace ) or (Ellen Lycan Rina ) or ( Grace, Rina and Lycan ). All three all fun and flexible. I'm just now 32 and my first attempt at defense 3 was getting clapped at the final boss. Going to improve my disks and try again but imagine this will start to confirm if I can continue to go rogue or if I need to conform to the common team comps
I have tuned my team into one that just lets me mash on Ellen in between rotations, and i love mashing. Game's been very easy so far so i hope when i get to 40 things ramp up a little bit
Been playing with C1 Nicole since launch and I’m calling it now. When Zhu Yuan releases Nicole will be the best support. Def shred is better than attack buff in the late game right now.
Both her and lucy are already better overall supports than Soukaku. The oni's rating is heavily skewed by the fact she's the only one with a full team, but she sucks outside of that one lineup
My main team is Corin, Rina, and Anby. The game decided that this is supposed to be my only team because I pulled Rina twice. I have Nicole, Lucy, and Piper trained so i have the ability to train a good amount of characters in the future for huge amounts of teams
17:12 Not sure how many people at Prydwen use controllers vs MKB, because on MKB things are way different, and things that seem easy on controller aren't as easy on keyboard
I've been following Prydwen since it was still a mere spreadsheet for Counter:Side. Nowadays, with it spread so thin across so many games (a lot of things get outdated pretty fast as the gacha meta is always shifting, and the less popular characters don't get updated much, if at all), I only see it more as a beginner's guide site rather than something you look into for detailed insights. If you've been a long-time gacha player of many games it's generally best to make your own judgment especially for a gacha game that's only been out for less than 2 weeks
How is Anby on the same level as Koleda as a stun unit? Koleda clearly stuns the enemies so much faster than Anby. I love both characters but I think Koleda is a tier above Anby.
Man I just think tier lists are fuckin dumb, if you build your characters well enough and invest in them you’ll beat endgame and do it just fine as well
I think Soukaku should be T0 however as a disclaimer she is the only one ive managed to max out the engine and her self and did notice a massive ramp in her damage will only keep her for Ice team, I also agree with Nicole I feel she is slept on, and i wish i could just pull Ellens dam engine.
Chat let's be civil It's time for some Iyo takes and I know y'all can't take facts tbh But brutha do be cooking even tho you may not see where he's coming from Paid viewer btw I'm not paid jsyk it's a joke 💀
I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH ANTIN IN T2... As a f2p in this game, i found out Anton is so good, specially against solo bosses, If you have Rina or Grace, they both are amazing with him, He doesnt need a "S" tier weapon, he already has his weapon in the shape of a drill, you dont need to have him c6, but if you is even better :3 (i combined him with NICOLE to group enemies and RINA to give that extra electro bonus and damage, because when an enemy is shocked he does more damage)
This is a c0 list that's why Anton is so low there, he needs c1 badly. With atleast c1 he's easily atleast t1 prob even top of t1 if you have grace and Rina to combo him with.
@@Andre-od5hf Yup, but again as a f2p i got c6 Anton and Rina (later Grace), y know its easy to get him rigth now as we have not many characters AT LEAST AS C1. But yeah you have reason as C0 (however the video doesnt say C= list... anyways regards)
@@Andre-od5hf do as you consider best bro :3 no sarcasm, youre the one playing your account so ENJOY :D (i just said Anton is great, because we have no other electro carry rigth now, maybe next patches we will get an S tier electro but not now :3) regards
I do more dmg with Nekomata compared to Ellen. Neko+Piper+Nicole is my top team. I saw no enemy with Physical resist yet, making this party top one. Only Neko can keep up with that teleporting hollow boss and just shred him with dodge-counters without stun. If i'll get Lycaon then possibly Ellen team with Soukaku will be better, but now they can't function without a stunner, so I have to use Anby with them losing bonus for Anby and Butler. And still that party require a lot more investment compared to my neko team.
I got a double 5 star on my standard pulls... But both of them was Koleda so i guess im a Koleda main now lmfao. Honestly she is really good. But ive only know her as a c1. Ive never actually played her c0 😂
I agree billy;s kit is kinda all over the place and doesn't help him, I don't think hes in a better tier than any of the other attackers but I will say that he also just has a very different playstyle than the rest of the cast. From my experience billy's biggest and worst aspect is his range. If there is an enemy on screen, billy can pretty much hit them no matter where they are, but without his replica starlight w-engine the dmg is nerfed hard. Hes still my fav to play tho and he excells at wiping out multiple enemies at once.
As far as A rank general supports goes...like to be able to slap them on any team like even without faction or attribute buff and yeah with those buffs, all 3 (soukaku lucy and nicole) would just be better. But imo lucy still has higher value than nicole and soukaku and it will only get more clear going forward.
![Everything You Need to Master Qingyi! [Stun Combos, Builds & Teams] | Zenless Zone Zero](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KWUNZgUcSgc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Everything You Need to Master Qingyi! [Stun Combos, Builds & Teams] | Zenless Zone Zero](/img/tr.png)
22:25 Coleda was bugged, her core passive gave her -30% stun instead of +30% stun, she is fixed now, but it's not yet reflected on Prydwen, now she deals the most stun out of all characters
Word? I gotta test this out cause that would help her tremendously (after her energy issue is fixed lol).
@@IyoXSKoleda was my first S rank and benched her for Anby pretty early on. Wasn't sure if I was just bad or didn't understand how I was supposed to play her.
I saw recently that Koleda's passive was bugged and was actually debuffing her instead of being a buff so I gave her another shot and the difference was night and day. I wouldn't feel right putting Koleda and Anby in the same tier after testing the difference between them.
Her energy is kind of annoying early on but she really gets going a lot faster if you parry her in. 11/Koleda/Lucy and Koleda/Lucy/Piper feel a million times better after the bug fix
Oh damn, I stopped building her at the beginning, it felt like her stun percentage was so bad but I gotta test this out
I thought they did fix it and she still was tier 1 due to the daze being backloaded on her combo and it being so much slower than other stunners.
@@Phaceial Hm do you know when exactly they fixed it?
I think Prydwen should have 2 versions (personally) of their tier lists, one with standard w engines, and one with Signature. The reason is because sometimes core features WILL be locked behind W engines, either rotation or dmg (the main problem is rotations). Sometimes you will be able to skip a W engine, and sometimes you won't to have a complete character. This has happened in HI3, PGR and will happen in ZZZ. HSR is almost there, with units like Topaz showing vast differences in performance with and without sig (not just in terms of dmg, but also team building)
I wish more players understood this key fact instead of just turning a blind eye to clear patterns just because they don't want to do said thing.
Genshin spoiled a whole lot of people by letting them ignore weapons, but it's been pretty apparent in both the direction of HSR and ZZZ that they want weapons to be important again.
Even understanding that a character needs their W-Engine to be complete doesn't help THAT many players, especially this early. You have to rely on luck or the shop. 600 shop currency will take you at least 500-600 pulls, so we're talking about month 3-4 at the earliest. Their baseline tier list should reflect that, otherwise it's just like talking to a mirror. Even if you think S-rank W-Engines are mandatory, nobody is gonna have them shits yet
Would you include C1 for characters that have a better C1 than signature weapon?
@@Mann42 the problem is Genshin is the first Gacha for a lot of people so they don't know that traditionally sig weapons are so much more important. ZZZ is gonna be a rude awakening for a bunch of them.
I know it's for content but tier lists so early this games life span feels so pointless
Remember when Bennett was a bottom tier character? 💀
Fighting game players releasing tier lists too early is normal behavior.
@@ohheylads to be fair no one knows how to play a hoyo-dna game that time aside from primitive hi3 players, but yeah these tier lists are still wack esp before the tweaks
Tier lists are always pointless! I always just stick to my favourite characters!
Those tier lists predated the theorycrafting community. It was the TC community that told everyone that Bennett was top tier.
Hoyoverse games follow a certain combat design template so it's easier to make calculations for their new games. For example, the early game calcs for HSR aged really, really well.
Officer Juicy needs to show up already
calling her this is WILD.
I approve.
Ellen with the Polar Metal versus Woodpecker Electro argument is the new Keqing with the Thundering Fury versus Thundersoother.
Like how Silver Wolf is Pela is the new Yae Miko is Fischl
Honestly, I just use Polar because you can also farm Freedom while you're at it
@@invalid3354win-win?
Listening to Iyo in this video, is like listening to Terrance Howard talk about math.
10:40 watch when Zenless becomes more technical or involved to defeat harder bosses ppl will cry it’s too much work or bosses require too much because they can’t mash their way through and then act like they didn’t have 6+ months to learn and adapt to this before it got there. I’m calling it!
That's what I've been saying. There's no pleasing gamers anymore. Negative feedback gets the most attention. Zzz is pretty technical. When it first launched everyone button mashed through the tutorials and did not try to learn anything. Still don't😂 they try to compare it to games like elden ring saying it does have this doesn't have that.
Funny thing is. It has everything elden ring has 😂
yo hopefully wuwa player didn't found out this comment
@@jes-missyou I play Wuwa and they do the same complains and I’m betting some of these ppl aren’t past lvl70 Hologram battles waiting till they out level it🤣
I mean yeah it's hoyo players 😂 genshin is insanely easy.
I remember when they didn't want a harder endgame with more rewards because they knew they wouldn't be able to get them lol
How is it technical? Everyone who tries to defend the game just tries to deny the obvious. Tell me in what way is it complex? I think it's fine the way it is, simple and relaxing. But it definetely isnt a masterclass in gameplay. Anyone who says you need to stop spamming in order to actually get through endgame content is lying. Only exceptions are zhu yuan and maybe ellen but even then you just gotta farm charges and then use them. "It has everything elden ring has" is 100% copium. @@via_kole
I agree about the supports, I'm surprised Soukaku is up so high considering how slow her animations are and ramp up time. Yeah she's got a great buff but considering they mention the speed / ease of use in their major decisions I expected her to be a little lower. Not that she's bad of course, just requires more field time than the other A-Rank supports.
That said, while I do think signature weapons are important to kits, I think this early a lot of people won't have those signatures much like how they won't have multiple copies of A Ranks. I think it'd be better to consider those after a few patches similar to how Eidolons were eventually added in HSR.
Soukakus buff lasts like twice as long as the other supports though so she doesn't really take up more field time
@@C2DDthe thing with her buff is that other support buff are better that’s why her buff last so long. %atk in this game definitely don’t calculate like Genshin, it’s seem to be much higher value
@@2fersttwo for Ellen what support buffs are better
@@C2DD Nicole Rina?
@@2fersttwo I don't agree with that but we'll see how it turns out. 1000 flat attack is huge
HUGE disagree on ranking characters based on having their signature. If im looking up a tier list to see how good Zhu Yuan is, and it says shes the best in the game im assuming that's via just getting her and building her with drive disks and skills and whatnot. If i learned that tierlist placement only applies to pulling for her Wengine as well id be pretty upset. I hear there js a sperate ranking for signature wengines, which is great, but honestly ranking characters on their own is pretty important as not everyone is going to pull for Wengines for each character they have, not to mention wengine rankings themselves could be separate
Anby's ability to stun simply can't keep up with Koleda after Koleda's important bug fix. I don't know why they're the same tier.
One is free and easy access. The other you gotta get lucky or use selector. Anby is pretty good despite being a free unit.
Anby plays in shock teams on top of being free, while teams where you'd play Koleda people just use Lucy Piper
Koleda is slow.
Koleda became literally twice as good after bug fix I don’t think they have updated her on prydwen
my mono electric team (anton, anby, rina) could not work without anby, and with grace, its just confusing and hard to see the shock, and with my normal team anton made more dmg than in the iron witch story (i dropped anby and it became worse) with grace, overall, team building is very important in this game, with koleda you either build dps ben or soldier 11, or you loose the team effect since lucy don't realy have many team but she is top tier support (much likely to be bennet from genshin momment)
I noticed that when you were talking about the Anomaly section you never ended up talking about Grace, only Piper. Was funny.
I think Iyo secretly hates grace
Lmao he's just grace is grace nothing to be explained lmao
Woooooah. I absolutely love Grace. I thought I spoke on her, but that's my bad.
TLDR; Grace is deserving of T0.5, but I value her to an incredible degree. I'm working on Ellen first, but I'll release a Grace guide most likely next week. I won't have time this week due to EVO, but I didn't even realize I skipped over Grace. I'd be crying about that too. xD
I would even place Grace on T0 as a specialist in disorder teams. Her anomaly build up is insanely good + her mobility is nuts.
I like grace but I just feel like I’m playing her wrong with Rina and anby/anton
would you mind showing us that Zhu Yuan and nicole team/combo once they release
great video btw and nice insight as always
Good stuff Iyo.
I have to say Koleda is an absolute beast of a stunner, still being slept on. Dodge counter into EX along with basic 3 and 4, for days.
How do you work around her energy issues without her signature w engine? Do I run something like steam oven instead?
Well she was just fixed like 3 days ago which is not reflected in Pyrdwen's list yet. I'm sure she'll move up once they factor in the massive bug fix with her stun.
One problem right now is we are still very early. Ice seems a lot better because Ice has a lot more of its core and Victoria Housekeeping is complete. Also some elements don’t have everything they need. Anby will get better when we get a S Electric Attacks and when Zhu Yuan comes out because Nicole will slot there, and this Anby gets her buff with the Cunning Hairs. Pubsec, The Defense Force, and Sons of Calydon have a lot more potential and the characters that can benefit those characters can get more use.
Also want you to add to Iyo’s Solider 11 bit, I’ve had a lot of success with S11, Lucy and Ben. Ben is 100% slept upon. Damage, stun and crit rate buff. If you use Quick Assist you negate is major weakness.
@@smashmonkey6304 you can actually do really well with most elements as they are complete. Exception being Ether.
@@pdmerritt Yes and its kind of how you end up building a lot of teams. Mono element is good because you can build the anomaly easier everyone gets their core passive. The factions give you a lot more freedom. Right now, Zhu Yuan gets shackled a bit to Andy because Nicole is there and she gives Anby her core passive until 1.1 where she gets two other characters that can fill the third slot. This will be more important if you want to replace Nicole. I think Mono will be less desired once more characters come out and we get better with the Disorder reaction
My Koleda is constantly now mvp after the fix. Her normal attack chain is quite clunky but the s make her insane. Her dodge counter is the best though.
@@guiltycross IMHO, the clunkiness is gone if you have Ben on the team also. Ben can feel clunky if you don't play him properly though. Otherwise it works surprisingly well.
Bruh they've been using "switch cancel" since WW lol.
Have they? Last I checked it was swap cancel, but if it’s changed since then that’s great!
I know this hurts your soul, but my guy... I come to you honestly, as a Stylish Action Game player, and a Fighting Game player myself...
These characters have rotations. Sure they have "combos" absolutely, but those combos are completely void. They do not matter. The reason I say this is because of how these mechanics overlay on top of eachother. Let me explain -
- This is a gacha game with DPS gated content
- Each character has 8 billion stats and abilities to upgrade
- Performance is not measured outside of speed of DPS in stage
This is important because while the foundation for combos, creativity and reactivity is there... it's completely underutilized. Players are punished for not committing to an optimal rotation, and combat stages are urged to be cleared as quickly as you possibly can. What results is using stun to force enemies into a vulnerable state (stunned enemies take more damage) and then doing burst damage. There is no world where playing outside of this strategy is optimal or decreases clear times. I have been consistently getting sub 30 seconds on my SSS Victoria team (Lyc/El/Rina), where I simply play a basic rotation game. If I try anything outside of that optimal rotation my DPS drops. Aside from that juggles are redundant due to flinch being a state that is equivalent to juggle state. They're interchangeable.
The issue is that the devs/hoyo have tried to blend two game design ethos together that do not mix. They need to wall off content behind daily engagement, and resource bloat... This forces you to level characters at a snails pace to keep the player from advancing and making progress to quickly. These games are designed around some of the most jacked up psychological analytics regarding marketing, engagement, and addiction.
What this has done is create an illusion... or rather... potential that gets completely wasted. There is no reason to play what's fun when the game actively punishes the player for it to urge them towards optimal play and possible spending - since that's the end goal. Make you pay for your experience. ZZZ (like WuWa) is in this weird place, where mechanics are so good and borrowed from the best action/fighting games in the business... but completely underutilized and not properly rewarded in place of traditional MMO/Rotation based gameplay rooted entirely DPS.
The fact that ZZZ bases so much of it's value in character DPS, and stats hinders any execution based gameplay we might have access to - based solely on the content we have to play with said mechanics. Shiyu favors DPS, Hollow Zero favors DPS, Notorious Hunts favor DPS.
What the game needs in my honest opinion is a mode where all we are rewarded with a score based on player execution. Give us ratings based on damage taken, juggles, switch tech used, anomally's proc'd... etc. etc. make it like Arcade mode in FFXVI, or Bloody Palace... No resources, no chrome, nothing but the reward of a score and mode of infinitely spawning waves of enemies that we can enjoy just playing with the combat in. As it stands it feels like all gear is tailor made to enforce grinding (which makes sense because gacha). The lab doesn't cut it, because it doesn't effectively matter in the end. I can spend hours in there concocting sick combos and then see my times plummet because they're sub-optimal to the core content.
It's effectively hurt my enjoyment of the game. I find no reason to play around with the content, to make matters worse is that the actual combos we can create just aren't that interesting compared to WuWa which channels it's action game spirit more effectively. I think people that complain that these combos are just for looks and have no application are goofy and have never seen a combo vid of Bayo, DMC, W101 or anything... these dudes act like Desk ain't shit --- when they themselves couldn't execute those combos if they tried.
What I've learned from all this is that I wish ZZZ was just a regular game and not a gacha... but it is what it is. All this tech, and these mechanics go to absolute waste on content that is geared towards maxing DPS and hitting the same 4 buttons in order, over and over again with maybe a parry or dodge here and there. The game has/had so much potential to make itself welcome to regular action gamers, but it failed... I don't think it's recoverable either. Unless they add some for funsies mode that lets us experience the combat freeform without compromising their business model - and their very barebones lab isn't cutting it so far.
For some teams, yes, but I do think there are many teams (like the Nekomata team) where you are better off without a stunner and having stun be a bonus as opposed to a goal. these teams are far less formulaic and will have more variation (due to the enemy not being stunned). and even the more formulaic teams, like the ice team, has a decent amount of variation. if you take the ice team for example, you have to mix building Ellen's stacks, Sokaku's stacks, energy for their specials, and daze while also making sure you trigger the stun on the right character so you can make sure that Sokaku's chain goes into Ellen who really want's to be the last one. even from there you need to adapt your combo depending on how much ex bar you managed to build. and how long the enemy will be stunned for. It may not be to the level of some other games but it is not pure rotations like you say.
W-Engine baseline should be contingent on how difficult it is to obtain. In WuWa you can get 3 standard weapons of your choice fairly early in the game, so it makes sense to use them in that game. In ZZZ the standard W-Engines are completely random, so it's incredibly likely that your Tier List will be flawed for a high % of players. It makes slightly more sense for characters like Ellen tho since you can more easily guarantee getting her signature. Maybe a fix for this could be to assume they have P5 A-rank and put a "+1 Sig" or "+2 Sig" if the character gets bumped up 1-2 tiers with access to their signature.
Nicole and Zhu Yuan are basically the Nihility units. They're just gonna go up in tiers as more Either units come out. The fact that Either is so rare is telling.
We're just missing an Anomaly, Stun, and Defense.
Also, I feel A-rank units should be evaluated at M6. F2P will get them eventually and in situations like Soukaku, where it's clear they're basing her position at M6, we should really be looking at the full potential. M6 Nicole is tier 0.5 and will likely go up once Zhu Yuan comes out.
I think it is because of we are still on early game so they only use m0 on tierlist. Because back then I remember prydwen use e0 in early patch hsr but right now they already use e6 for 4 star character
I think the more we progress in the game we might get elemental reaction through anomaly.
M6 should actually never be an option cause there will always be new players to start and u cant just say everyone got those chars to M6. If even they need to make a comment and place them different like in HSR where 4* C6 are ranked different to their C0.
27:30 it's in combat and out of combat attack. That's the difference. Atk% from in combat isn't additive with out of combat, it's a separate multiplier of Brimstone being multiplied of TOTAL ATTACK during combat at the time that atk buff from the w-engine passive activates. the main state atk% is applied out of combat and is used towards the total attack value.
Corin is so underrated by many of you guys. Corin is not suppose to be on the field most of the time. The situation to switch her out are: block and counter, or being the last one in the chain attack, or when the enemies are break use her ult and EX special attack, or switch her with Assist attack (no joke, if you can trigger her assist attack very often, very solid easy dmg from her).
Definitely agree. Not rolling Ellen so have been using Corin as my DPS and she is carrying me in HZ and Shiyu. Got the BP attacker weapon and she has sky rocketed even more.
I got nekomata's w-engine and use it on Corin, she is my main dps and destroys everything 😁
She doesn't feel like an attacker tho if you play her like that. You're just wasting a team slot at that point.
Corin deals crazy damage to stunned enemies, you can literally one-shot all elites with her ex special.
Stun, delete, repeat. It's even easier with a good support. I managed to defeat bosses like the butcher and the big robot guy in only two stuns and a little bit extra damage after.
@@ok10469 to be fair, i don't think you should look too hard at roles. I use Anby, which is a stun unit, as my main dps and billy as sub dps with nicole as support to pull units in. Anby isn't an attacker, yet she's my main dps and billy is an attacker yet he's more sub dps.
I mostly agree with your assessment of the tier list. I think Neko is incredibly strong and it's insane to me that she's so 'low' in the tier list. I also completely agree that Nicole is being slept on currently. She is absolutely insane. Just looking at her kit alone should make people think tier 0 or tier 0.5.
Yeah, I've been calling people that think she's bad just blatantly insane. Currently she mostly exists for some d shred and grouping, but the second an ether dps drops she will quickly be considered an utterly crazy good support.
@@crystalsaria5625 Are... are you kidding me. She floods out Shred to remove the need for pen, has absolutely no real stat requirements beyond energy gen. Provides enough Ether damage boost the Ether DPS she's sidekicking for can just focus Attack and Crit/Crit damage.
@@jbreitz87An interesting caveat of this is how pen ratio will work with it. Like does pen ratio affect defence before or after the defence shred, if its before then for some it may be beneficial to go for pen instead of dmg bonus if their dmg bonus sources are high already. If it’s after, that’s negative synergy as pen ratio becomes weaker. Not sure how it works myself.
@@crystalsaria5625Soukaku is quite reliant on the damage dealer being ice, as other than the attack buff, the rest of her kit ties to being an ice damage dealer.
Lucy alternatively is quite general and contributes a significant amount of damage with her minions while also providing a 600 attack bonus, 400 less than Soukaku but the minions will overall supplement the damage and performance increases at higher investments. Nicole alternatively performs better the weaker your dps is as def shred is more valuable at higher levels and sometimes your dps just isn’t built fully yet. If your dps is built def shred is still strong and she takes up little on field time at all so your dps spends more time attacking.
@@crystalsaria5625 Attack is not everything in the world. Say we had asta in this game and she could only buff attack and say she has level 8 talent. That’s 61.5% attack buff. If we take Billy whos attack isn’t that high compared to S rank attackers, and A rank w engine starlight for even less base attack. Asta buffs him with ~850 attack, nearly the same as soukaku’s max buff and for S rank dps, probably the same. But does this make asta’s attack buff contribution to damage extremely good in hsr? No it does not. Now asta has a speed buff and that makes her nice but it’s the same argument here. If soukaku loses ice dmg bonus buff, ice pen doesn’t matter, and it’s just attack it just is not better than other supports.
Different Damage modifiers are multiplicative, going all in on attack is just bound to have diminishing returns. Mind you this also applies to any singular modifier. Furina for instance does better with hp instead of hydro dmg specifically because her dmg bonus is so high already until C2
Edit: to not be disingenuous, I understand HSR is a different game with a base attack being upwards of like 1300, and its relics have higher stats as well by about 19%, so attack may be more valuable in ZZZ than in HSR. However I feel that typical damage methodology still applies and the differences are not large enough to skew team building, stacking all in on attack will be less worthwhile than spreading out the damage modifiers. Look at jingliu for instance, popping like a 3k attack buff but still not the strongest dps in the game. The lower stats thing also lends to it that all stats are also more valuable at the same levels. Like 15 crit rate boost in other hoyo games is nice but in ZZZ it’s far more impactful as that’s the equivalent to a full crit substat on a disk drive which is something Nicole m6 pops on the party.
"It's like rubbing a nipple" 😂
Koleda just got buffed with bug fix so I think she’s fine now
S11, Lucy, Piper is insanely fun lol
Most definitely! I tested it today when got Lucy. My team is Anby, S11, Lucy but I might have to level up my piper cuz she’s good with them. Def slept on.
I was running a full Ice Team (Ellen, Soukaku, Lycaon), but switched Rina in to replace Soukaku because of her QoL benefits. Being able to proc Quick Assists from both ranged and close-up really made the game faster and more pleasant to play. No need to run after spread out enemy units if Rina (or Nicole) can just teleport your melee DPS onto the enemy.
Damage numbers have been comparable between Rina and Soukaku for me, but I'm still in early-ish game (lvl 26), so they might start to pull apart in late game. I still haven't unlocked Rina's Core F upgrade, so she might scale higher with more Pen Ratio, or she might fall behind Soukaku on a full Ice Team, but for playability, it's hard to go back to Soukaku with her slow wind up and melee range.
Nah, I have C6 Soukaku and C0 Rina outputs roughly the same DPS. I use that team too. Plus it's less annoying to listen too lol!
”That’s gonna wrap up Anomaly” All Piper without a word about Grace, our best girl’s forgotten 😢
Naaah, I thought I spoke about her earlier on in the video for T0 section! If not, there’s another comment where I have a TLDR on my opinion of Grace. I didn’t mean to skip over baby girl if that’s what happened. 😅
@@IyoXS T0 section was basically just Ellen and Soukaku, which then panned into the Support talk, Lycaon wasn't spoken about too much either 😂
It's okay though, I think I've got an idea what you think of both (can't find the comment).
Would be nice to hear your input on Zhu's potential teams, seeing as she can pair with any Support (Not Attribute), if you'd care to make a video about that at some point.
I'm unsure about Zhu's attribute application, but it would be interesting to see if she could do well with Grace + Rina (They all, 3/3, get Core Passive in this team) and how it would compare to the Anton team.
Speaking of just building anomaly, sometimes I run Grace, Piper, S11 (+ Brimstone) and I can spam proc disorder so fucking fast. Its lit.
i was sad losing to Nekomata but after building her, man, she is so good and so much fun to play.
i now have Ellen on 1st team and Neko on my 2nd team. I was lucky enough to get her C1
Im not gonna lie bro, you're way too fixated on flashy combos and juggles when 90% of the endgame content is dps against bosses that are knockup immune. Trash mobs are already stunlocked by basic attack strings, so theres no reason to switch cancel or use EX meter to keep them juggled. This is not a fighting game, its an ARPG. Damage rotations are the main skill expression this game has to offer, as well as situational awareness and attack timings. Im not on the "button mashing" train but you're kidding yourself bringing up gold elo fighting game experience.
Can’t wait to see the comments on this one
gulp
100% agree with piper. She is insane. She is on my current favorite team Grace/Piper/Rina and it is ridiculous. Grace applies shock sooooo damn fast and piper comes in with massive disorder damage it's so fun
Just wanted to say I've been checking out a lot of channels since ZZZ's launch looking for "the one" to follow long-term, and I think this is the one. Keep up the good work.
Poor Billy.
But he is still my dawg 😎✌
“Mega attack” means final damage multiplier, meaning it multiplies damage on top of any other buff already active instead of having a diminishing return
I think sokaku being top tier is because you have either Ice DPS (Ellen) or Ice Stun (Lycaon). If u dont have any of those character, building nicole/lucy will become more relevant because u can either pair it with character with same faction or element. Sokaku being ice is has very limited option, her factions is only her right now.
My favourite character to play is Billy so i'm both very happy that he is free and kinda bummed that he his bottom 1, but that's okay 😂
I don't understand. What other metric is there other than damage? What do you mean by "performance"? You don't disagree with the current ice team being the best damage wise (there was even a video I saw where, despite having an element disadvantage in Shiyu Defense, it still cleared faster than other teams), but performance-wise? Is it because it's harder or easier to use? Right now it's undeniably the best and feels pretty good to play.
You missed that Koleda buffs chain attacks for the entire team.
I think there’s quite a few billy break downs on TH-cam where he’s up close maneuvering with his crouching shots and his damage bonus when he’s close to the enemies, I don’t really play him so I’m not sure but have you checked those out?
I agree about weapon is heavily hold the Valkyries potential in HI3rd. When you pull for the Valkyrie and don't have her weapon, you will see the big difference even for the playstyle or the access of the certain combo. Especially when doing some weekly boss and compare your score with the other guy on the leaderboard
bro thanks for recommend me to use Anby when I don't have Lycaon for Ellen-Soukaku team. Anby rocks.
Damn Ben just left in the dust like that...
Idk if you already knew, but Koleda's passive was bugged and was working against her, instead of giving her more daze, it gave her less daze, since the bugfix I've noticed how much daze she does vs anby is day and night, she stuns enemies twice as fast in my experience since the bug fix.
SIck video man, love the vibes and discussion
The Nicole 360 tech is harder to do if you play on mkb. You need to rebind you skill key from E to be able to WASDW while holding skill. It's still doable, but a lot less trivial for those who play on mkb. I would definitely consider it a more advanced tech in the sense that casual players that use mkb probably will never bother to rebind their skill key and learn it.
I really hope they release a fire anomaly unit soon so Ben can get insane value off of Burn. Highest I've ever hit with him was 58k
I agree with Iyo, Soldier 11 competes with Ellen. Ellen is reliant with her E, and the dash-attack is downtime for her empowered basics.
i love what you're doing keep up the awesome videos!!! i'm excited to see how the gaem progresses over time
At first i was a little sad about pulling 11 cause i was really hoping for Lycaon, but after learning 11's mechanics and timing, I feel like she's just way better for constant damage output then people give her credit for, i've been pairing her with anby and Soukaku and i can switch tech, perfect dodge, perfect parry bosses into constant damage between proccing shock, freeze and burn.
there is this channel? damn man just subscribe. just keep doing what you do like man
i started swapping bangboo's now too to compliment disorder builds, if i know i got grace or piper that insta procs anomaly-- then i can proc shock/assault and then disorder with an S tier bangboo through and pop it with the other element. So the bangboo sort of acts like a 2nd anomaly character.
I waited for your take about Grace but it didn't happened , I do agree that Piper is insane though , thx for the video and your hard working!
I call the “quick assists” tag attacks.
Also I believe the tier list is for this rotation of defense only and not in general, I can understand the placement more in that context at least because I don’t believe the entirety of the ice team is T0 either, BUT, as a team, and in this rotation? Sure, I’ll give it to em
30:48 I don't think this is true. It seems like only the active character is able to build up anomaly. Guoba Uncertified mentions it near the end of his anomaly and disorder guide video
Yeah a lot of his information isn't very accurate... That always happens...
Idk about that specifically? I tested it just to be sure, but... I can build up whatever anomaly I want, regardless of who is active. If you're referring to the actual 'pop' of the Anomaly effect, then yes. Only the active character can trigger the 'pop', but based on what I was explaining at 30:48, Neko would trigger the pop anyway. Here's a streamable of me demonstrating this particular statement you quoted is not true (it'll auto delete itself in 2 days cause I'm not paying for the website).
streamable.com/kvrs5r
@@IyoXS I see. Guoba's terminology was a bit confusing since he said you won't apply the anomaly, but I guess you can build it without actually getting the proc. Good to know. I like that implementation. Thanks for checking!
You can build up the anomaly, but you can swap off the unit before it PROCS the anomaly itself is what my video discussed. Anomaly isn't just a one time thing, it's a constant build up of an element
@@guobauncertified thanks for confirming. Keep up the great work with your guides!
So character based tier lists are great and all, but perhaps you could do a tier list of the best teams? (If you’re looking for content ideas) With some team guides?
I hear S11/Piper/Lucy is a goated team but I don’t know why or how to play it.
would personally prefer if prydwen eval’d characters individually and didn’t boost/downgrade characters largely based on synergy with one specific team (universal usefulness is valid)
So before I even type this I want you to know that this is meant as a compliment. When I watched your first video I legit thought you were just being a snob with the whole "im a fighting game person" view on why people were going to miss certain things about the game. However after logging a TON of time and getting my team a little more optimized, ESPECIALLY in the higher Zone Zero modes, I have decided that you were SPOT ON. The combat system is incredible and its caused me to tap into reflexes that I havent needed since Killer Instict 2 back in the SNES days lol. The tag system is pretty briliant and each charector has a bunch of little subtle things that you only learn by playing them and screwing around a bunch. Ellen is the most fun gacha charector ive ever played. Keep up the good work.
I already got a good team 1: Neko Piper Lucy
Now im just waiting for Zhu Yuan to pair her with Anby & Nicole for Team 2
Same exact boat. Eatin' good once that banner drops, then will be set to save for Miyabi.
haha thats also my plan ! gonna have so much fun w those !
Hearing you talk about Soldier 11&Nekomata is exactly how I play them😂
shame you can only have 1 Piper so I run the lore friendly Neko,Anby,Nico team.
I disagree with the evaluation of The Brimstone, mostly because while it's true that it's multiplicative attack bonus that's easy to access, it's basically a floor BECAUSE it's completely generic. Many signature weapon have similar 'mega attack' bonuses that are 'harder to active', but for the actual character themself, the difficulty is fake, and it's very easy to activate for that character and provide a much larger bonus. In any situation a signature weapon offers a worse bonus than Brimstone, you can just toss Brimstone on them, because it's mechanics are so generic/easy you could put it on any (attack) character, thus it's a floor, any (atk) W-engine that gives worse number than it is a bad w-engine and in any evaluation of quality of a w-engine you can just compare directly and if uptime as percentage time bonus is less than Brimstone, it's probably bad. The issue is, this doesn't mean it is bad, but it is, at least, the worst good (atk) w-engine.
Anyways, I might be a little salty, cause the game spat out 2 S-rank w0engines at me from the standard banner and I'm suffering from having only 2 ranks agents, the first your guaranteed to get from the standard and a second from a pity off the rate-up banner.
yeah you are salty lol
Nicole defs the best tag assist in the game, getting her Cinemas up with Zhu Yuan banner is gonna be insane.
I ditched my Ellen acc because Soldier is the funnest with the highest potential.
I just wanna share a fun fact about anby and soldier 11
When fighting the giant robots that has a machine gun on their shoulder only anby and soldier 11 can block that attack
They deflect the bullets while other character just tank ot
Nekomata and Ellen can do so too.
The key? Blade-wielding users
Any character that when you go into the move list menu in combat has a slash/arc symbol can deflect all projectile type attacks
Its the coolest and best balanced gacha-game out there in aspects off grinding diffeculty! NO annoying open-world, a cute cozy city with lots to explore and a lot of cute little stories, supercool satisfying fights, lovely but also crazy characters, all the features and things you can do are so cool. Also all these puzzles in the caves - a wonderfull new and innovative way in the gacha-world! Next to Wuthering Waves its the best and most entertaining ga-ga "for me". And who dont want to own and manage a vhs-rentalstore ;-) Played to level 30 in three days because I couldnt stop. Just bought the battlepass but got already so much luck getting grace, soukaku 4x, soldier 11, lucy 3x, piper 3x, Ellen, etc. - And DUDE...parries are soooo satisfying!
This game will need 2 tier lists, 1 for *with signature weapon* and one with *good f2p friendly weapons* a very large % of players won't be able to get multiple s rank weapons, let alone signature weapons for every character.
From the little I’ve played of Zhu Yuan, she already feels like a better Billy with Marvel 2 Jill Normals.
Which team DO you think has the best performance if not Ellen Lyca Sukakou? Nicole instead of Sukakou?
11:00 It's not a day and age thing, it's a gacha thing. People that are actually interested in mechanical depth generally don't play gacha games, they play actual fighting games, or soulslike games and the rest. Gacha has always been, and always will be aimed at a way more casual crowd, because the financial model is reliant on having an enormous player base with lots of variety in it so they keep spending money. If the game is hard they won't play and won't spend. Simple business strategy
11:42 A wise scholar once said, "pew pew pew," and upon hearing those words, I instantly understood the meaning of life lol
You hyping up Nekomata has me excited. She was the S rank I pulled initially, and I wasn't sure how to feel about it at first. I managed to get Lucy and Piper, heard they worked well with her, and have been trying to make that my first team. But I'd love to heat what you'd do. Sounds like I was on the right track with Piper at least.
My dream is to get Nekomata, she's so fun to play. But I got Grace first, and now I just got Soldier 11. I didn't even level her up. But now you said you can play her alongside Grace and Lucy, I'm kinda curious. Can you really do without a stunner?
we need an as-a-fightin-game-player prydwen tier list instead
How to cram unlimited bad opinions in one single video
Just got Lycaon and would love to see a video about his combos, perhaps as a section in your upcoming Ellen guide?
I haven't really labbed much with him, but my first reaction was that I prefer Anbys moveset lol
Great content because it gives me some insight. Side note: my favorite team has been ( Ellen Lycan Grace ) or (Ellen Lycan Rina ) or ( Grace, Rina and Lycan ). All three all fun and flexible. I'm just now 32 and my first attempt at defense 3 was getting clapped at the final boss. Going to improve my disks and try again but imagine this will start to confirm if I can continue to go rogue or if I need to conform to the common team comps
billy is tier 0 in my heart
I have tuned my team into one that just lets me mash on Ellen in between rotations, and i love mashing. Game's been very easy so far so i hope when i get to 40 things ramp up a little bit
Been playing with C1 Nicole since launch and I’m calling it now. When Zhu Yuan releases Nicole will be the best support. Def shred is better than attack buff in the late game right now.
Both her and lucy are already better overall supports than Soukaku. The oni's rating is heavily skewed by the fact she's the only one with a full team, but she sucks outside of that one lineup
@@hua..Why lucy i think she kinda like kaku right buff atk too or it bcz her pig?
@@naufalsyauqifillah6388Lucy acts more like a sub dps support. Especially at C6. Her damage scaling is nuts
She's like Xiangling and Bennett in one. Her ult do damage and buff.
My main team is Corin, Rina, and Anby. The game decided that this is supposed to be my only team because I pulled Rina twice. I have Nicole, Lucy, and Piper trained so i have the ability to train a good amount of characters in the future for huge amounts of teams
Is this a new channel? I was not subscribed but I have been subbed since your star rail vids.
17:12 Not sure how many people at Prydwen use controllers vs MKB, because on MKB things are way different, and things that seem easy on controller aren't as easy on keyboard
Koleda is only ok until you get Ben on her team then she's amazing.
I've been following Prydwen since it was still a mere spreadsheet for Counter:Side.
Nowadays, with it spread so thin across so many games (a lot of things get outdated pretty fast as the gacha meta is always shifting, and the less popular characters don't get updated much, if at all), I only see it more as a beginner's guide site rather than something you look into for detailed insights.
If you've been a long-time gacha player of many games it's generally best to make your own judgment especially for a gacha game that's only been out for less than 2 weeks
"Goal is to get behind Nekomata". You are indeed right brother.
How is Anby on the same level as Koleda as a stun unit? Koleda clearly stuns the enemies so much faster than Anby. I love both characters but I think Koleda is a tier above Anby.
Man I just think tier lists are fuckin dumb, if you build your characters well enough and invest in them you’ll beat endgame and do it just fine as well
I think Soukaku should be T0 however as a disclaimer she is the only one ive managed to max out the engine and her self and did notice a massive ramp in her damage will only keep her for Ice team, I also agree with Nicole I feel she is slept on, and i wish i could just pull Ellens dam engine.
Chat let's be civil
It's time for some Iyo takes and I know y'all can't take facts tbh
But brutha do be cooking even tho you may not see where he's coming from
Paid viewer btw
I'm not paid jsyk it's a joke 💀
I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH ANTIN IN T2... As a f2p in this game, i found out Anton is so good, specially against solo bosses, If you have Rina or Grace, they both are amazing with him, He doesnt need a "S" tier weapon, he already has his weapon in the shape of a drill, you dont need to have him c6, but if you is even better :3 (i combined him with NICOLE to group enemies and RINA to give that extra electro bonus and damage, because when an enemy is shocked he does more damage)
This is a c0 list that's why Anton is so low there, he needs c1 badly.
With atleast c1 he's easily atleast t1 prob even top of t1 if you have grace and Rina to combo him with.
@@Andre-od5hf Yup, but again as a f2p i got c6 Anton and Rina (later Grace), y know its easy to get him rigth now as we have not many characters AT LEAST AS C1. But yeah you have reason as C0 (however the video doesnt say C= list... anyways regards)
@@GatochanBolivia My anton is still c0 sadge (im not pulling on ellen banner, im waiting for zhu).
@@Andre-od5hf do as you consider best bro :3 no sarcasm, youre the one playing your account so ENJOY :D (i just said Anton is great, because we have no other electro carry rigth now, maybe next patches we will get an S tier electro but not now :3) regards
I would address brimstone as final atk%, basically multiplicative to your total atk and not additive to your normal atk%
I do more dmg with Nekomata compared to Ellen.
Neko+Piper+Nicole is my top team.
I saw no enemy with Physical resist yet, making this party top one.
Only Neko can keep up with that teleporting hollow boss and just shred him with dodge-counters without stun.
If i'll get Lycaon then possibly Ellen team with Soukaku will be better, but now they can't function without a stunner, so I have to use Anby with them losing bonus for Anby and Butler. And still that party require a lot more investment compared to my neko team.
since supports enable reactive assists, maybe they should be called reactive enablers
i have waiting for this bro do make one when zhu yuan drops
I got a double 5 star on my standard pulls... But both of them was Koleda so i guess im a Koleda main now lmfao.
Honestly she is really good. But ive only know her as a c1. Ive never actually played her c0 😂
I agree billy;s kit is kinda all over the place and doesn't help him, I don't think hes in a better tier than any of the other attackers but I will say that he also just has a very different playstyle than the rest of the cast. From my experience billy's biggest and worst aspect is his range. If there is an enemy on screen, billy can pretty much hit them no matter where they are, but without his replica starlight w-engine the dmg is nerfed hard. Hes still my fav to play tho and he excells at wiping out multiple enemies at once.
the beanie is fireeeeee
The things I’d give for Billy to have t1 or 1.5 damage
I'm here rocking lycaon, sokaku, and Nicole... Is insane how much you can do with two support.. or maybe Lycaon is just that good as dps replacement
As far as A rank general supports goes...like to be able to slap them on any team like even without faction or attribute buff and yeah with those buffs, all 3 (soukaku lucy and nicole) would just be better. But imo lucy still has higher value than nicole and soukaku and it will only get more clear going forward.
I use woodpecker too! Thought I was going crazy ahaha. Team lycaon, Ellen, soukaku for life