Yes Rickesh, you can use Hydro Ban over concrete board (as you referenced) or really known as cement backer board products like Hardie Backer, Wonder Board, etc., or really any other code approved product in a shower (e.g. Hydro Ban Board) Yes, if you want to shell out about $30 per 3 foot x 5 foot board, Laticrete Hydro Ban Board is available at some tile shops. I prefer Hardie Backer that costs about $10.99 a sheet. Hardie Backer requires something like a grinder with a tile blade and creates a dusty mess, but saves about $20 per sheet, but I have to coat it with Hydro Ban, and saves me a special trip to the tile store, when places like Home Depot or Lowe’s is much more convenient. Wonderboard is more brittle along the edges. Laticrete makes a HydroBan Board foam core board with the green coating on top, and then only requires sealing the joints, gaps, etc. This Hydro Ban board can be installed on the walls, benches, and shampoo Niche. It’s foam core and not cement based, so it’s not very rigid. Laticrete also makes a foam core pre-sloped shower pan product, that can be easily cut and glued into place, but once again needs sealing at the joints. I have not used the pre-sloped shower pan product, as a lot of the showers I build can vary from standard sizes to crazy huge showers sometimes with some odd shapes. Keep in mind to keep the perimeter of your shower level, so all your tile will look great sloping down to wherever the drain is located. Getting side tracked, lol!.... 😅 What is the difference between concrete and cement? Concrete has gravel, rocks, or stone, also known as aggregate. Cement is a binder, a substance used for construction that sets, hardens, and adheres to other materials to bind them together. Cement is seldom used on its own, but rather to bind sand and gravel (aggregate) together. Cement mixed with fine aggregate produces mortar for masonry, or with sand and gravel, produces concrete. (Reference Wikipedia) Good luck with your project!
Hydro Ban must be applied wet 0.4mm to 0.6mm thick on each coat and allowed to cure 1-3 hours each, for each of the 2 coats. How do you know you’re achieving the correct thickness? A millimeter is just slightly thicker than 1/32”. To make my life a little easier, rather than guessing, I just use the 5/32” x 3/16” V-notch trowel that Laticrete recommends on the back of the bucket of Hydro Ban and then flatten it out like Laticrete teaches. I also use the fabric style joint tape to prevent cracks in the Hydro Ban. It’s very helpful for houses that can shift around. See the rest of the house for drywall crack repairs, or for cracks to see if this may happen to the Hydro Ban in the shower. For shower pans, code requires you to test the shower pan with standing water up to the overflow height for 24 hours. Afterwards, you’ll want to protect the Hydroban with something or float another layer of mortar bed mix that the tile installer will attach the tile to.
Ideally you would put another layer of mortar over the HydroBan. The reason for this is 2 fold. 1. To float a tiny bit up for the Oatey shower drain flange, and 2. To protect the HydroBan from some tile guy who might damage it.
For starters, there is nothing that is a paper product. I float a mortar on the floor that is pre-sloped to the drain, and Hardie backer on the walls. Then I apply Hydro Ban to the walls and the floor with 2 coats of the product at the correct thickness (on the package) Essentially I’m using a 5/32” x 3/16” V-notched trowel at roughly a 45 degree angle, to get the correct thickness, and then flatten it out without removing any product. I have done it this way for at least 12 years, and doing it that way will get the right thickness. I have checked the thickness with the Laticrete Mil thickness gauge that I finally got my hands on to make sure it was. After the first coat is dry, I use the flat side of the trowel to skim coat on another layer, paying extra attention to any dried holes, like air bubbles that popped, and anything else that needs an extra coating layer. If you want to do an extra full notched coat, feel free. Just build it up in layers so each layer dries correctly. The first coat will soak into the cement board and dry quickly, and extra layers will dry slower, like most if not all day. Good luck. Don’t forget to do a shower pan test for 24 hours. Make a mark on the wall with pencil to easily check the height of water.
You don’t need the gap, because the Hydro Ban water proofing goes on top of everything. You’re thinking about the rules only when you have a rubber shower pan liner and not a total water proofing system. Refer to Laticrete’s website for their Hydro Ban product.
@@craftsmanconnection I had the same question, you dont want the cement board siting in the liner because water wicks up, but youre waterproofing the wall with the floor, I guess if it leaks everything is damaged not just the walls, thats my dilemma, liquid vs those paper membranes?? I wonder which last longer?? I dont mind doing 2 or 3 layers of this stuff.... but I wonder if it cracks before the paper does?
@@EJfromNYC For starters, there is nothing that is a paper product. I float a mortar on the floor that is pre-sloped to the drain, and Hardie backer on the walls. Then I apply Hydro Ban to the walls and the floor with 2 coats of the product at the correct thickness (on the package) Essentially I’m using a 5/32” x 3/16” V-notched trowel at roughly a 45 degree angle, to get the correct thickness, and then flatten it out without removing any product. I have done it this way for at least 12 years, and doing it that way will get the right thickness. I have checked the thickness with the Laticrete Mil thickness gauge that I finally got my hands on to make sure it was. After the first coat is dry, I use the flat side of the trowel to skim coat on another layer, paying extra attention to any dried holes, like air bubbles that popped, and anything else that needs an extra coating layer. If you want to do an extra full notched coat, feel free. Just build it up in layers so each layer dries correctly. The first coat will soak into the cement board and dry quickly, and extra layers will dry slower, like most if not all day. Good luck. Don’t forget to do a shower pan test for 24 hours. Make a mark on the wall with pencil to easily check the height of water.
Correct, that is what the directions say. However, not everyone can measure and cut Hardie Backer accurately, and giving a full demonstration, and best practices, I use the fabric on all inside and outside corners regardless of what the manufacturer says you can get away with. I do remodeling for a living, and a few dollars worth of fabric isn’t worth having a leak, in a state (Texas), where some older house move around enough to cause a tear in just the liquid membrane all by itself.
Not sure I understand why you used this product over Schlueter. I am putting in a 4' x 6' shower, and planning to use schlueter membrane over drywall, foam floor and barrier, and then dieter for the outside the shower. Looks like six of one half a dozen.
If you watch some videos by the Tile Coach on TH-cam, he does some tests on Schluter and shows that it will leak/ water penetrating past the non-modified thinset that is used in the application. Plus myself as a former building inspector knows that drywall, even as a substrate is not allowed in the shower area per code requirements. Green board used to be allowed back around 2003, but is no longer allowed, even with a water barrier on top.
I’ve tried Schluter membrane one time on a big shower job back around 2012, and I found that the membrane didn’t bond well with the non-modified thin-set. I could literally peel the membrane off of the wall. In some areas the membrane did not stick to the thin-set. It didn’t seam to matter how wet I made the thin-set. The Hardie Backer sucked the water out of the thin-set faster than I could get the thinset on and the membrane applied.
@@craftsmanconnection the schluter system installed correctly in a shower will have zero problems. most "tests" on youtube are extended submerged applications which a shower will never see. If not done properly any method could potentially have problems.
Adam Hlivko, I have seen some of those longer shower pan tests from a channel called Tile Coach. The problem I run into all the time, is that most of the showers I tear out do not have a pre-sloped shower pan. And with those shower pans without a pre-slope, the water collects and eventually the hidden water below the tile turns into a black moat of disgusting water because some guys are not aware of the true need, and requirement for a pre-slope such as another TH-cam channel called Starr Tile. I would hate to see a shower pan fail and cause damage to my clients house, and have to redo a shower pan and some of the shower wall tile. Without being able to see what is really happening with water below the tile, it does concern me how bad a lot of shower pans are being done. A lot of tile guys don’t even test the shower pan first, and another plumber who installed an Oatey Shower pan liner for a contractor friend, didn’t even use silicone under the Oatey 40 mil vinyl liner around the drain flange. This isn’t what I had in mind for “job security” 😅.
Can you use Hydroban over Kerdi? I finished my shower but after seeing videos showing that kerdi isn’t necessarily water proof I’d like to add Hydroban for insurance.
does this liquid membrane have to be applied below or above the mud if im going to float my shower floor for pre-slope? or does it not matter where as long as its one of the layers?
Above the 1st layer of mud bed mix. The mud bed is sloped at 1/4” per foot slope minimum, and the Hydro Ban is applied on top. After the Hydro Ban has dried at least 1 day, flood test the shower for 24 hours. Then you can, but don’t have to, apply a second coat of mortar on top of the HydroBan to protect the hydro ban from the tile guys. You’ll want the first layer of mud bed 4:1 mix to be flush with the Oatey shower drain, and the Hydro Ban to overlap on top of the shower drain with the top flange off, so you don’t clog the weep holes.
Wow........................ you do realize you can apply that with a roller or a brush right? I dont know, you just made this simple process look 3 times more difficult than it really is. Almost painful to watch you doing that curb!! Also there is a required thickness for the hydro ban.
From the Laticrete (Hydro Ban) website..,”When using a paint roller, substrate will not show through HYDRO BAN if coated with 0.020 - 0.030" (0.5 - 0.8 mm) of dried membrane. Color changes from a light sage to olive green when fully cured.” On the back of the Hydro Ban bucket, it says you can use a paint brush, roller, or 5/32” x 3/16” V notch trowel, and so to help ensure the correct thickness, I have decided to go with the V-notch trowel, rather than a paint brush or roller brush, so I don’t have leaks at the shower pan. I highly doubt anyone of us actually has the thickness gauge to measure Mil thickness of the applied liquid membrane, since this tool is not sold or distributed at the suppliers that I have been to. I use a two coat process to ...ensure there is no pin holes, voids, etc. per the instructions. Better to be safe, than sorry, as replacing a shower pan is not an easy process if you do it wrong, and you may open yourself up to other financial liabilities if other things are ruined if there is a leak. Pay a little more now, or a lot more later? Your choice, but being cheap never wins when it comes to water finding a way out.
When do you know when it’s under doing it? When it leaks!!! 😂 On a serious note, Laticrete has Mil thickness specification and tool recommendations on how you should apply. It looks thick, but dries thinner, and I have tested it to not leak. And on 1 job, although it was as thick, a framing crew jacked up the house, tweaked my corner, and a leak happened….fortunately there was a garage floor underneath (1st floor level).
@@craftsmanconnection That is what the fabric's for my friend. Almost ten years doing Hydo Ban and Mapei Aqua Defense, I have done both with Concrete Mud Pans as well. No call back since.
So you can use this water proofer over concrete board ?
Yes Rickesh, you can use Hydro Ban over concrete board (as you referenced) or really known as cement backer board products like Hardie Backer, Wonder Board, etc., or really any other code approved product in a shower (e.g. Hydro Ban Board) Yes, if you want to shell out about $30 per 3 foot x 5 foot board, Laticrete Hydro Ban Board is available at some tile shops. I prefer Hardie Backer that costs about $10.99 a sheet. Hardie Backer requires something like a grinder with a tile blade and creates a dusty mess, but saves about $20 per sheet, but I have to coat it with Hydro Ban, and saves me a special trip to the tile store, when places like Home Depot or Lowe’s is much more convenient. Wonderboard is more brittle along the edges.
Laticrete makes a HydroBan Board foam core board with the green coating on top, and then only requires sealing the joints, gaps, etc. This Hydro Ban board can be installed on the walls, benches, and shampoo Niche. It’s foam core and not cement based, so it’s not very rigid.
Laticrete also makes a foam core pre-sloped shower pan product, that can be easily cut and glued into place, but once again needs sealing at the joints. I have not used the pre-sloped shower pan product, as a lot of the showers I build can vary from standard sizes to crazy huge showers sometimes with some odd shapes. Keep in mind to keep the perimeter of your shower level, so all your tile will look great sloping down to wherever the drain is located.
Getting side tracked, lol!.... 😅
What is the difference between concrete and cement? Concrete has gravel, rocks, or stone, also known as aggregate.
Cement is a binder, a substance used for construction that sets, hardens, and adheres to other materials to bind them together. Cement is seldom used on its own, but rather to bind sand and gravel (aggregate) together. Cement mixed with fine aggregate produces mortar for masonry, or with sand and gravel, produces concrete. (Reference Wikipedia)
Good luck with your project!
Yes, you can use Hydro Ban over concrete board.
Hydro Ban must be applied wet 0.4mm to 0.6mm thick on each coat and allowed to cure 1-3 hours each, for each of the 2 coats. How do you know you’re achieving the correct thickness? A millimeter is just slightly thicker than 1/32”. To make my life a little easier, rather than guessing, I just use the 5/32” x 3/16” V-notch trowel that Laticrete recommends on the back of the bucket of Hydro Ban and then flatten it out like Laticrete teaches. I also use the fabric style joint tape to prevent cracks in the Hydro Ban. It’s very helpful for houses that can shift around. See the rest of the house for drywall crack repairs, or for cracks to see if this may happen to the Hydro Ban in the shower.
For shower pans, code requires you to test the shower pan with standing water up to the overflow height for 24 hours.
Afterwards, you’ll want to protect the Hydroban with something or float another layer of mortar bed mix that the tile installer will attach the tile to.
@@craftsmanconnection Another layer of mortar bed mix to protect Hydro Ban? I thought that tile could be adhered directly to Hydro Ban??
Ideally you would put another layer of mortar over the HydroBan. The reason for this is 2 fold. 1. To float a tiny bit up for the Oatey shower drain flange, and 2. To protect the HydroBan from some tile guy who might damage it.
Very talented young man.
For starters, there is nothing that is a paper product. I float a mortar on the floor that is pre-sloped to the drain, and Hardie backer on the walls. Then I apply Hydro Ban to the walls and the floor with 2 coats of the product at the correct thickness (on the package) Essentially I’m using a 5/32” x 3/16” V-notched trowel at roughly a 45 degree angle, to get the correct thickness, and then flatten it out without removing any product. I have done it this way for at least 12 years, and doing it that way will get the right thickness. I have checked the thickness with the Laticrete Mil thickness gauge that I finally got my hands on to make sure it was. After the first coat is dry, I use the flat side of the trowel to skim coat on another layer, paying extra attention to any dried holes, like air bubbles that popped, and anything else that needs an extra coating layer. If you want to do an extra full notched coat, feel free. Just build it up in layers so each layer dries correctly. The first coat will soak into the cement board and dry quickly, and extra layers will dry slower, like most if not all day. Good luck. Don’t forget to do a shower pan test for 24 hours. Make a mark on the wall with pencil to easily check the height of water.
There is no 1/4 gap between cement board and shower pan? We dont need that anymore? Thanks!
You don’t need the gap, because the Hydro Ban water proofing goes on top of everything. You’re thinking about the rules only when you have a rubber shower pan liner and not a total water proofing system. Refer to Laticrete’s website for their Hydro Ban product.
@@craftsmanconnection I had the same question, you dont want the cement board siting in the liner because water wicks up, but youre waterproofing the wall with the floor, I guess if it leaks everything is damaged not just the walls, thats my dilemma, liquid vs those paper membranes?? I wonder which last longer?? I dont mind doing 2 or 3 layers of this stuff.... but I wonder if it cracks before the paper does?
@@EJfromNYC For starters, there is nothing that is a paper product. I float a mortar on the floor that is pre-sloped to the drain, and Hardie backer on the walls. Then I apply Hydro Ban to the walls and the floor with 2 coats of the product at the correct thickness (on the package) Essentially I’m using a 5/32” x 3/16” V-notched trowel at roughly a 45 degree angle, to get the correct thickness, and then flatten it out without removing any product. I have done it this way for at least 12 years, and doing it that way will get the right thickness. I have checked the thickness with the Laticrete Mil thickness gauge that I finally got my hands on to make sure it was. After the first coat is dry, I use the flat side of the trowel to skim coat on another layer, paying extra attention to any dried holes, like air bubbles that popped, and anything else that needs an extra coating layer. If you want to do an extra full notched coat, feel free. Just build it up in layers so each layer dries correctly. The first coat will soak into the cement board and dry quickly, and extra layers will dry slower, like most if not all day. Good luck. Don’t forget to do a shower pan test for 24 hours. Make a mark on the wall with pencil to easily check the height of water.
The directions says it doesn't need any fabric if less than 1/8in
Correct, that is what the directions say. However, not everyone can measure and cut Hardie Backer accurately, and giving a full demonstration, and best practices, I use the fabric on all inside and outside corners regardless of what the manufacturer says you can get away with. I do remodeling for a living, and a few dollars worth of fabric isn’t worth having a leak, in a state (Texas), where some older house move around enough to cause a tear in just the liquid membrane all by itself.
Not sure I understand why you used this product over Schlueter. I am putting in a 4' x 6' shower, and planning to use schlueter membrane over drywall, foam floor and barrier, and then dieter for the outside the shower. Looks like six of one half a dozen.
If you watch some videos by the Tile Coach on TH-cam, he does some tests on Schluter and shows that it will leak/ water penetrating past the non-modified thinset that is used in the application. Plus myself as a former building inspector knows that drywall, even as a substrate is not allowed in the shower area per code requirements. Green board used to be allowed back around 2003, but is no longer allowed, even with a water barrier on top.
The leak in the Schluter happened during the shower pan tests. The shower pan is the most critical area for water proofing.
I’ve tried Schluter membrane one time on a big shower job back around 2012, and I found that the membrane didn’t bond well with the non-modified thin-set. I could literally peel the membrane off of the wall. In some areas the membrane did not stick to the thin-set. It didn’t seam to matter how wet I made the thin-set. The Hardie Backer sucked the water out of the thin-set faster than I could get the thinset on and the membrane applied.
@@craftsmanconnection the schluter system installed correctly in a shower will have zero problems. most "tests" on youtube are extended submerged applications which a shower will never see. If not done properly any method could potentially have problems.
Adam Hlivko, I have seen some of those longer shower pan tests from a channel called Tile Coach. The problem I run into all the time, is that most of the showers I tear out do not have a pre-sloped shower pan. And with those shower pans without a pre-slope, the water collects and eventually the hidden water below the tile turns into a black moat of disgusting water because some guys are not aware of the true need, and requirement for a pre-slope such as another TH-cam channel called Starr Tile. I would hate to see a shower pan fail and cause damage to my clients house, and have to redo a shower pan and some of the shower wall tile. Without being able to see what is really happening with water below the tile, it does concern me how bad a lot of shower pans are being done. A lot of tile guys don’t even test the shower pan first, and another plumber who installed an Oatey Shower pan liner for a contractor friend, didn’t even use silicone under the Oatey 40 mil vinyl liner around the drain flange. This isn’t what I had in mind for “job security” 😅.
Can you use Hydroban over Kerdi? I finished my shower but after seeing videos showing that kerdi isn’t necessarily water proof I’d like to add Hydroban for insurance.
Yes, you can add Hydro Ban over Kerdi.
@@craftsmanconnection thank you.
does this liquid membrane have to be applied below or above the mud if im going to float my shower floor for pre-slope? or does it not matter where as long as its one of the layers?
Above the 1st layer of mud bed mix. The mud bed is sloped at 1/4” per foot slope minimum, and the Hydro Ban is applied on top. After the Hydro Ban has dried at least 1 day, flood test the shower for 24 hours. Then you can, but don’t have to, apply a second coat of mortar on top of the HydroBan to protect the hydro ban from the tile guys.
You’ll want the first layer of mud bed 4:1 mix to be flush with the Oatey shower drain, and the Hydro Ban to overlap on top of the shower drain with the top flange off, so you don’t clog the weep holes.
What kind of pan was it again?
Hydro Ban, liquid shower pan liner. 😂
Wow........................ you do realize you can apply that with a roller or a brush right? I dont know, you just made this simple process look 3 times more difficult than it really is. Almost painful to watch you doing that curb!! Also there is a required thickness for the hydro ban.
From the Laticrete (Hydro Ban) website..,”When using a paint roller, substrate will not show through HYDRO BAN if coated with 0.020 - 0.030"
(0.5 - 0.8 mm) of dried membrane. Color changes from a light sage to olive green when fully cured.”
On the back of the Hydro Ban bucket, it says you can use a paint brush, roller, or 5/32” x 3/16” V notch trowel, and so to help ensure the correct thickness, I have decided to go with the V-notch trowel, rather than a paint brush or roller brush, so I don’t have leaks at the shower pan.
I highly doubt anyone of us actually has the thickness gauge to measure Mil thickness of the applied liquid membrane, since this tool is not sold or distributed at the suppliers that I have been to.
I use a two coat process to ...ensure there is no pin holes, voids, etc. per the instructions. Better to be safe, than sorry, as replacing a shower pan is not an easy process if you do it wrong, and you may open yourself up to other financial liabilities if other things are ruined if there is a leak. Pay a little more now, or a lot more later? Your choice, but being cheap never wins when it comes to water finding a way out.
Kinda over doing it, but hey, to each's own.
When do you know when it’s under doing it? When it leaks!!! 😂 On a serious note, Laticrete has Mil thickness specification and tool recommendations on how you should apply. It looks thick, but dries thinner, and I have tested it to not leak. And on 1 job, although it was as thick, a framing crew jacked up the house, tweaked my corner, and a leak happened….fortunately there was a garage floor underneath (1st floor level).
@@craftsmanconnection That is what the fabric's for my friend. Almost ten years doing Hydo Ban and Mapei Aqua Defense, I have done both with Concrete Mud Pans as well. No call back since.