The 500 ft theory seems pretty reasonable considering Cp cares more about being the first to break a record rather than retaining that record, meaning they wouldn’t care about Falcon’s Flight opening. Look at their past, Dragster opened as “the original strata” but its height record lasted 2 years and Millie’s lasted a few months
@@Death1rock1334 As with Jeddah, I think behind schedule and way way way over budget and scaled down are all very real possibilities. Maybe a stretch, but I think it could even bankrupt Intamin if they fail to pay.
@@SteelRiderCarlpersonally i hope that intamin receives an advance payment, even if partial. I don’t know the logistics of buying it building a coaster but It’ll be a sad day when intamin is gone, regardless of their issues.
@@SteelRiderCarl lol no shit its a stretch. You really think Intamin agreed to make some 600 foot pipe dream in the middle of the desert without significant up front payment? You think the Saudi obsession with over promising these projects wouldn't encourage them to just pay Intamin whatever they demanded to agree to this? Intamin will be fine. Saudi Arabia will be fine. This ride won't ever be functional.
Perhaps it will break the record for tallest coaster point off the ground? Because Falcon's Flight goes off a cliff so it won't ever be 500 ft off the ground.
The cliff is 600 feet, the camelback off the cliff is like 530 something, if they’re following the layout like in the concept video, the highest point should be almost smack at 600ft from the ground once it crosses the edge of the cliff for the giant drop, kind of like how apollos chariot is technically a hyper because of ground elevation
@@kevinthompson6986 it probably is Zamperla but I’m willing to give it a chance and give zamperla the benefit of the doubt even though the company hasn’t made much in the coaster department
A record they could easily claim regardless of the height of the spike is *fastest backwards launch.* Dragster will need to launch backwards to go up the spike.
Yeah, because they work! They are great for GP and enthusiasts, they are easy to market so they bring in people by the boatloads! Most importantly they have proven to be amazing rides!!! See Pantheon, Ice breaker, Toutatis...All great, successful, thrilling rides. CP24PHP will be the Godfather of these coaster types💯
I really enjoyed Pantheon, so I'm hyped for a new multi launch spike coaster, but I think recorded height records need to be the highest point that ALL cars of the train reach.
I personally think that the spike will be higher than Kingda Ka but I don't think CP will claim any height records. I think it will technically be the tallest ride in the world because of the spike but CP themselves won't recognize that as the case. It just makes sense because of their past with records.
i think they might recognize it as a record because it is convenient for them. they might use technicalities for marketing as technically the tallest roller coaster
@@bobtheblob2770 nah I don't think so. They are the rollercoaster capitol of the word. Trying to claim a record that everyone will call out as being BS isn't their style. They'll just say its the tallest vertical spike in the world because that would be fact. That's good enough for them.
I had known this for about a week. Somebody posted a picture of a shipping label they got off one of the crates. It said Project High Point. They got it off the crate in Cedar Point Express hotel. I just dont know how they will able to get so close to get the photograph. Your information has been spot on since this started. Im not sure how I feel about a spike however.
Glad someone is finally talking about how only full circuits used to count...since the beginning I was holding out for a double top hat given CPs previous affinity for full circuit record breakers, but it appears management has gotten cheaper.
I think CP used to be more stringent with their height records, only considering a roller coaster to be a complete circuits. That kind of all went out the window when they built Wicked Twister, lmao.
Thanks for the update Funny how the new TTD was announced well after the montezuma reimagining and will probably be completely built before montezuma and the forbidden fortress will be open 😤
They're probably just going to market it as "World's Tallest Vertical Spike" and have that as they're marketing record sort of like with Hershey marketing Wildcat's Revenge's Underflip.
what caught my eye is that they tore up alot of supports half way down the brake run and that they lowered the old tunr around and station and laid a concrete foundation, still say there's more going on then people think
I think it's going to be probably a little bit taller than King Da Ka, but all of the trains on TTD with exceed the height of King Da Ka. Because Cedar Point is famous for breaking Roller Coaster records, so I think that they "might" go over 500ft with the new TTD, (probably not going to go over 500 ft, but anyways) Other people are saying it's going to be space themed because of the dark grey, and white. If CP does make it over 500ft, it will be the NEW skyline of CP. That's what I think about it. Thank you for your time! :)
Unfortunately there will be no hill during the launch section as well. You can see the supports for the launch section are painted and still at the original Launch Angle. 0:32
I went to Knott's recently and while talking to a ride op on the observation tower they told me these clues towards a (different?) new ride: [ ] "Bird is the word" location (unless it was referring to ride experience?) [ ] taller than the Knotts S&S launchtower (SkyScream(er)?) Unless he was referring to Xcelerator. [ ] New coaster (or other ride? I'm pretty sure he said coaster) next year(/announced next year?) Now I thought it was heavily implied or outright said that this was for Knotts, however, there is a small chance he was referring to Cedar point which would make more sense considering the TTD reimagining. From what I can tell though he seemed very dead set that it was this park/here (knotts) at that time. Now, the operator could be messing with me and maybe the info is false, but it definitely seemed to come from somewhere truthful. Considering it hasn't been announced yet, I doubt the park has 100% committed to the project and they could change their minds or comply with regulations. But I'd keep an eye out at Knotts. My best guess is that it's not Montezuma's revenge at all and that it is xcelerator that is getting taken out or reworked in some capacity. However it could be neither and as simple as one of those sky swings.
Man just took my daughter to cedar point a few days ago, definitely noticed the support structure stuff near iron dragon, can't wait to see what they come up with, on a side note gatekeeper was a first time for me and a first coaster for my 11 year old, probably the best coaster I've ever ridden, she was terrified but amazed at the same time! Anyway great video as always, definitely keep us updated your channel is top notch coaster stuff 👍👍👍👍
But the point of cedar fair not counting shuttle coasters is that whole train *must be at record height* and *at the same height* (not back/front rows higher up then other rows) in order to claim the record, otherwise they wouldn't push for full circuit coasters
@@adakalyoncu1913I understand that, but they could make it tall enough for the whole train to reach record height... my point was more that a swing launch with a switch track (which it would almost inevitably have to have in order to meet the capacity needed for cedar point) wouldn't be a shuttle coaster.. it would in fact be a full circuit coaster.
@@Frankenberry I get your point, but back rows would always get to a greater height than front rows so it would be the roller coaster that sends riders to the highest altitude, but still not tallest coaster as there is a diffrence between what row goes to what height. It would be the roller coaster that sends it's riders to the highest altitude in the world. Like what superman escape from krypton was when magnun xl 200 was the tallest coaster. Superman escape from krypton clearly sent riders to a greater height And no it doesn't matter if rest of the ride is full circuit. Whole train needs to be at the record height, and at the same height. It doesn't count regardless of the lowest point still being at record height, as long as they are not at the same height
@@adakalyoncu1913 It would just depend on how high they actually build it... And again, I don't actually think they're even gonna go for the height record. I mean its possible, but I doubt it. They could do it though, all they would have to do is make sure that the front of the train passes 457 feet... or whatever it is that Kingda Ka is... I really don't think they're sweating that though... they wouldn't hold it very long anyway with Falcons Flight getting built as we speak. At this point, knowing that Zamperla is building it, I'm just praying they don't end up with a 420 ft piece of lawn art.
It could be the tallest spire in the world if they do a spiral? That's a potential record. Plus, imagine going down a 400-500 ft spiral over a lake........whoa.
As cool as Falcon's Flight looks, and it would make a real badass ride, don't hold your breath. The Jeddha Tower City Project and the Artifical Continents Islands taught us not to take these Saudi Megaprojects too seriously.
The roller coaster is already being built and has already been paid for lol. The park itself is a mega theme park project but not a mega project. Its a $1B project lol.
@@TheKoopaManSho1 Jeddah Tower cost more than this entire project. The roller coaster probably cost between $70-90M. That was paid for and the construction of the coaster itself is almost done.
honestly with the new color scheme, would not be surprised if there’s some sort of space theme especially if they’re adding a record breaking vertical spike
Why haven’t they removed the “Finish Line” sign and Grandstand then……and they have had plenty of chances to do so. Why work around them just to remove them later.
I just can't get excited for this. I love TTD and Cedar Fair (I have a ~17 year old TTD ornament sitting in the box on my desk if that tells you anything), but this is a huge gamble they're taking with Zamperla. Time will tell, and I hope it works out.
@@j.johnson7891 And to my knowledge Zamperla hasn't made a coaster that has exceeded 60mph and barely over 100ft. Their coaster side has always been lackluster/rough/not well received. The new wild mouse from what I hear has a lot of down time and isn't particularly smooth (can't confirm for myself currently). And now you expect them to pull off a coaster at least twice as fast and over 4 times as tall as anything they've ever done? I really do hope it's a smooth and enjoyable ride experience...
@@Galistia Well, again they aren't building TTD, outside of maybe a spike. So they haven't built a 420 ft tall coaster before this project, and they won't be able to say they've built one after, either The key ingredient to TTD has always been the launch, which, for the majority of it's life had been an unreliable albeit fun mess. Zamperla hasn't developed launches and still won't be for this. This will be an Intrasys/Indrivetec task and from what I'm reading, the new LSM tech is insane. Even if it's slightly slower than the original hydraulic launch (it may very well be quicker, we're 16 years past Maverick's launch), I'll gladly trade that for a reimagined TTD that is actually running most of the time. Zamperla gets a bad rap because they've mostly done family rides which, rides in that category for the most part have been "meh" across the board anyway - especially to the enthusiasts which talk about them the loudest. A brief look into Zamperla's recent history shows they're investing in the talent and have totally refocused their vision as a company to become a major player. Time will tell if they can pull it off but this is all Cedar Fair's call at the end of the day. Wild Mouse is fun as hell by the way and not rough at all. It experienced downtime for the first few weeks of opening but I haven't seen it down at all since. That's pretty common for just about any new roller coaster.
@@j.johnson7891 They're literally adding their own track that will be traveled at at least 120mph up the spike more than likely, and potentially going even higher than what Intamin has already built. It's their new aluminum trains that haven't been on a coaster that's been over 60mph outside of some testing (I would hope). All I'm saying is I'm hoping for a smooth ride experience. Not one that will jolt, shimmy, and vibrate. Zamperla's cost cutting has yet to impress anyone.
Other than Theme Park Predictions having that meltdown over the fact Zamperla is doing the work and NOT Intamin, he's been pushing out information nicely
I think with the clue they are showing is that the ride will have two top hats with the second being even taller; given the C and P in the keychain are so similar in shape, like two top hats. Perhaps the finish sign is a red herring to throw the journalists off. I'm sure they know how resourceful you guys can be.
This is my theory too. You could easily break a speed and height record doing this and you don't have to break a speed record too massively to get over a taller top hat. You can have LSMs assist with the climb up the top.
I think I’ve been following this project from the start assuming you’ve been giving us solid info and others have been giving us wild speculation… you had me sold from the beginning! Hopefully it lives up to the hype 😊
First 500 foot roller coaster still counts. I'll be interested to see how Zamperla's launching system holds up vs. Intamin's. Also, will Cedar Fair part ways with Intamin, like Six Flags?
I don't think Six Flags is done with Intamin, unless during El Toro and Kingda Ka issues they parted ways and we didn't know, but Six Flags did buy an ABC Tourbillon (which were supplied by Intamin) but those weren't much of a success. Hopefully it's just cost related and Six Flags can work with Intamin on bigger projects soon💙
I think CP will stick with alternatives to Intamin especially if this project is a success. They've had horrible experiences with every single Intamin coaster at CP with Maverick, MForce, TTD, and the water ride Shoot the Rapids. However, the positive buzz about Velocicoaster at Universal might change their minds? But Universal's newest theme park opening in 2025 also uses alot of Mack rides as well as Intamin, so again not sure CP has a reason to ever go back to Intamin with Zamperla and Mack and Rocky Mountain offering such attractive alternatives.
@@JD-ef1jb Yeah, but those 3 Intamins (plus their 1 RMC) are the reason that people travel from far and wide to go there...they wouldn't be on anyone's radar without Intamin and RMC (carrying on what they started with Magnum/Arrow).
The hyper, giga, and strata coaster delineation was based on a full circuit (i.e. it makes a complete circle) ride. It's a technicality And also breaks their own description of height record breaking if the spike is 500 or however many feet tall. Also, it's my home park. I hope they do what they originally intended and remove Gemini and extend the actual spire that you go through.
Today they were working like crazy, in the station, and the new brake track, they had one construction guy by the gate near by on the radio saying another piece of track was coming over
While I'm not a fan of multi-launch coasters that go forward and reverse ie Ice Breaker, Skyrocket IIs and therefore am not a fan of the spike at the beginning, I would love to see the spike at the end of the ride and then the coaster would go back through the top hat backwards.
Launch forward to beyond vertical spike. Think 120 degrees. The front train car only will break the 500ft. Then fall backwards for the rest of the ride. Surprisingly the record will be focused on most "floater" airtime on the beyond vertical spike. Don't think it's 10 seconds. But definitely a ton. Space themed. But they keep the finish line. Not sure if it's called "Andromeda" but I seen that name on the schematic.
Makes sense. Won't break the speed record. But with the new lightning trains, it can garnish some air. Wonder if the speed over the top hat will be faster?
One thing not really mentioned: the top hat's transitions from horizontal to vertical take up roughly 200 ft of horizontal land each, whereas the spike's back footers are roughly 170 ft from where the roof of the old station roof ends. Either the transition into the spike is going to be extremely tight in terms of G-forces, or it isn't going to be 420+ ft.
The support structure between the top hat and the spike won't necessarily be the same, so this might not be the best metric in terms of estimating the height
Thank you! It still isn’t likely it’ll be taller. It’s popular to hope for, it certainly MAY happen, but there’s just been no true evidence of it being taller. Personally I think the spike is gonna be sub 420ft. Big bummer but I think that’s most realistic. Who knows though can’t wait to see either way!
Look, I love tall rides as much as the next guy, but a 600 foot tall rollercoaster might be a smidge much for me. Who knows, in 20 years it might be the standard, I'm sure when Magnum opened in '89 there were probably people who were like "200 feet!! woah that might be too tall"
Totally unrelated to this post but Ryan I got to lap Toro like 7 times yesterday!!! Park was empty lol, great video by the way excited to see what Zamperla winds up doing when all is said and done!
Was just at CP and they have replaced the dragster sign with the new logo and with the word Racing in the middle. There are also two sidewalk decals of the logo with the word Racing in the middle.
I just don’t understand how it makes any sense to have a spike that high. They’d need an insane backwards launch followed by a tiny boost to get over the top hat. They have all that track between the spike and the top hat, it makes sense to have a spike somewhere around 300ft so you still utilize the full launch section for the swing launch. Maybe I’m way off but seems like that would make a pretty sad boost coming off a spike that tall with all that speed already for a long piece of straight track
@@N9197U I agree they definitely could, but why is the question? It’s just super overkill and even that fast it’s straight track longer than makes sense
The sheer magnitude of the acceleration of OGTTD is nearly unmatched. But if the drop is legitimately over 500ft, this is going to be an incredible ride.
Finally someone who is not clickbaiting. I respect the hustle and all, but man I don’t really care about the color or the footers. Well, I did…. The first time one of my guys uploaded. ETR, waited to collect all the news, and I respect that.
All the people in these comments going "Cedar Point would NEVER go back on their assertion of height records only applying to full circuit roller coasters" as if their marketing team would give a shit. The total number of people who would notice or care makes up 0.01% of their annual guest count. They already have mildly conflicting takes on their arbitrary definitions of hyper and giga, with Magnum not quite having a 200' drop and Orion not quite having a 300' height-above-grade. At the end of the day it's all imaginary and coaster records don't mean anything - we know this.
Thanks for the update. I have been predicting over 600' for a while now. The footers are too massive to be going 200, and they would not add a spike at all without a purpose. It is unnecessary to get over the tophat, but necessary to enhance the ride and get a record. Terminal velocity for a coaster in free fall is around 120 so you can't really go too high. Being CP, you are not getting close to a record without taking it. A spike on Dragster is still a complete circuit coaster. We go to 600' to get the entire train over the record. Those of us old enough to have followed the original TTD construction can see the same pattern which we assume is for the same reason. Watching a record construction without an announcement but lots of teasers is huge publicity for the park. It is tons of free advertising. Due to the hype last time the announcement was delayed from Aug to Jan and I would expect an announcement around Dec or Jan when season passes go on sale. I don't know if they can get a speed record, but they are definitely going for height. And for those still hoping for a twisted back spike, the triangle of footers pointing towards the station indicates a straight spike. Also remember there are two more footers way back behind the spike triangle. Look for two massive diagonal supports to stabilize the massive spike. It is possible the spike is built in such a way that it could be increased in the future if needed to maintain the record.
They only need to go 9 mph faster to beat King da Ka. 120 isn't far off. Add a small LSM booster after the free fall and you blast past 128 mph no problem.
Seems like they're going for a Formula 1 theme on this. The white and gray colors almost mimic a race track , and the key chain clue looks like a race logo. Seeing as how Dragster's are not so relevant these days it could make sense that they're updating it to the more current/popular motor sport. That finish line hasn't been removed either...🤔
How do we know that HP stands for "High Point" and not "Horse Power"? And what if NR simply stands for *"Now Reversed"* to reference the backwards launch? If Zamperla really is adding the new track, there's no way they're building a new structure over 400 feet tall. It's in their business interest to demonstrate they can build ground-up launched coasters 100-150 tall, because that's where the market is. There just isn't any reason for the spike to be more than 160 feet tall. One backwards launch to 55-65 mph is enough to set up the forward launch to 120.
I’m just wondering how the spike could be taller than the top hat, as wouldn’t that make the subsequent launch not necessary due to the speed from gravity?
Presumably you'd do a forward launch partway up the top hat, a backwards launch up the spike, and then gravity (plus whatever you need to get back from loss due to friction) to go over the top hat. So the third "launch" is likely going to contribute very little additional power, but what other option is there without rebuilding the top hat?
I totally agree with everyone saying that they will claim highest point on a coaster, not tallest coaster. Cedar Point loves to get a little silly and specific with record claims but I think it's all part of the fun.
They may break a new record with it, but they probably aren't aiming for height this time. It could easily become the fastest coaster with a Swing launch, the tallest Swing launch, and fastest backwards launch.
I also fail to see how this is going to improve the capacity problem they had with the original. They gonna get more than 2 trains for this running at once?
Maybe they are adding the spike and switching it to an LSM style launch coaster where it will go up the top hat, back up to the spike and then completely over the top hat.
the 500 foot spike def makes more sense from a marketing perspective, if you’re spending all this money you may as well get a record out of it. but from a ride perspective it still seems weird to have a swing launch where basically the ride is supposed to *slow down* on the third launch having already hit a high point almost 100 feet higher than the top-hat
Zamperla’s rumored involvement genuinely scares me. My local park is OWA in Orange Beach, AL, and the only “legit” coaster they have is Rollin’ Thunder by Zamperla, and I have -NEVER- had a coaster physically hurt me like that one, with the one exception being riding Thunder Mountain at Disney with 4 freshly herniated vertebrae (yeahhhhhh I know).
"NR" is meant to stand for "new record" but the park won't know for sure if that title is achieved until testing begins, so it's not present in the marketing hashtag. Ya welcome
I think they are going to raise the top hat. I know that's crazy that's just what the clues are telling me. In fact, I think this latest "Polaris" screenshot leak is the template for the ride description (and may have even been "leaked" TC himself) but the real speed and height numbers are numbers are going to be WAY higher. I think this spike will be slightly inverted and 400+ feet tall.
The animation that shows the top of Power Tower wayyy down there in the distance looking like a kiddie ride makes me want to vomit thinking about. I'll make sure I sit in the back of the train so it doesn't get on everyone. LIke you Ryan I used to work on coasters (Dueling Dragons) and know how much of a pain in the ass puke is. Have to respect the ops.
The 500 ft theory seems pretty reasonable considering Cp cares more about being the first to break a record rather than retaining that record, meaning they wouldn’t care about Falcon’s Flight opening. Look at their past, Dragster opened as “the original strata” but its height record lasted 2 years and Millie’s lasted a few months
My thoughts are: I’m genuinely shocked Falcon’s Flight is being built at all.
It may be started but I bet they don't finish it.
If Jeddah Tower Is a reference point I'm skeptical as well 😄
@@Death1rock1334 As with Jeddah, I think behind schedule and way way way over budget and scaled down are all very real possibilities. Maybe a stretch, but I think it could even bankrupt Intamin if they fail to pay.
@@SteelRiderCarlpersonally i hope that intamin receives an advance payment, even if partial. I don’t know the logistics of buying it building a coaster but It’ll be a sad day when intamin is gone, regardless of their issues.
@@SteelRiderCarl lol no shit its a stretch. You really think Intamin agreed to make some 600 foot pipe dream in the middle of the desert without significant up front payment? You think the Saudi obsession with over promising these projects wouldn't encourage them to just pay Intamin whatever they demanded to agree to this?
Intamin will be fine. Saudi Arabia will be fine. This ride won't ever be functional.
Perhaps it will break the record for tallest coaster point off the ground? Because Falcon's Flight goes off a cliff so it won't ever be 500 ft off the ground.
Falcon's Flight's camelback will be 535ft, it will be the tallest coaster
@@parks.atelier NEVERMIND lol
The cliff is also 600ft not 500
@@parks.ateliergod damn 💀
The cliff is 600 feet, the camelback off the cliff is like 530 something, if they’re following the layout like in the concept video, the highest point should be almost smack at 600ft from the ground once it crosses the edge of the cliff for the giant drop, kind of like how apollos chariot is technically a hyper because of ground elevation
I appreciate how you only post when you're confident in the information
Super excited to see what TTD will be like after this renovation. I’m getting super excited for it.
If it’s zamperla I’m not can’t even keep a wild mouse running
@@kevinthompson6986 it probably is Zamperla but I’m willing to give it a chance and give zamperla the benefit of the doubt even though the company hasn’t made much in the coaster department
A record they could easily claim regardless of the height of the spike is *fastest backwards launch.* Dragster will need to launch backwards to go up the spike.
facts
It’s not going to be a spike. It’s going to be a “point”. 😉 thank me later…..
@@truthseekingman Too bad they can't build the point out of cedar. 🤔
I swear to god parks have a fetish for vertical spikes now
LMAO
Yeah, because they work! They are great for GP and enthusiasts, they are easy to market so they bring in people by the boatloads! Most importantly they have proven to be amazing rides!!! See Pantheon, Ice breaker, Toutatis...All great, successful, thrilling rides. CP24PHP will be the Godfather of these coaster types💯
It’s not going to be a spike. It’s going to be a “point”. 😉 thank me later…..
I really enjoyed Pantheon, so I'm hyped for a new multi launch spike coaster, but I think recorded height records need to be the highest point that ALL cars of the train reach.
that's literally what Ryan says in the video
@@CarlosMartinez-tj9ju I wasn't disagreeing with him. :)
I personally think that the spike will be higher than Kingda Ka but I don't think CP will claim any height records. I think it will technically be the tallest ride in the world because of the spike but CP themselves won't recognize that as the case. It just makes sense because of their past with records.
I could definitely see CP going for a 460ft spike just to reclaim the record from KK 500ft isn't gonna happen at all!
i think they might recognize it as a record because it is convenient for them. they might use technicalities for marketing as technically the tallest roller coaster
A very solid argument that I don't want to rebut.
@@bobtheblob2770 nah I don't think so. They are the rollercoaster capitol of the word. Trying to claim a record that everyone will call out as being BS isn't their style. They'll just say its the tallest vertical spike in the world because that would be fact. That's good enough for them.
@@braddougan1919 I completely agree with you!
I had known this for about a week. Somebody posted a picture of a shipping label they got off one of the crates. It said Project High Point. They got it off the crate in Cedar Point Express hotel. I just dont know how they will able to get so close to get the photograph. Your information has been spot on since this started. Im not sure how I feel about a spike however.
Glad someone is finally talking about how only full circuits used to count...since the beginning I was holding out for a double top hat given CPs previous affinity for full circuit record breakers, but it appears management has gotten cheaper.
I just commented the exact same thing!!!
I think CP used to be more stringent with their height records, only considering a roller coaster to be a complete circuits. That kind of all went out the window when they built Wicked Twister, lmao.
Thanks for the update
Funny how the new TTD was announced well after the montezuma reimagining and will probably be completely built before montezuma and the forbidden fortress will be open 😤
They're probably just going to market it as "World's Tallest Vertical Spike" and have that as they're marketing record sort of like with Hershey marketing Wildcat's Revenge's Underflip.
It’s not going to be a spike. It’s going to be a “point”. 😉 thank me later…..
what caught my eye is that they tore up alot of supports half way down the brake run and that they lowered the old tunr around and station and laid a concrete foundation, still say there's more going on then people think
I'm going to Cedar Point on the 20th, so I'm hoping to snag as many pics of the dragster as I can for updates! I love your videos, keep it up!
I think it's going to be probably a little bit taller than King Da Ka, but all of the trains on TTD with exceed the height of King Da Ka. Because Cedar Point is famous for breaking Roller Coaster records, so I think that they "might" go over 500ft with the new TTD, (probably not going to go over 500 ft, but anyways) Other people are saying it's going to be space themed because of the dark grey, and white. If CP does make it over 500ft, it will be the NEW skyline of CP. That's what I think about it. Thank you for your time! :)
They have NOT removed the “Finish Line” sign so it won’t be a space theme…..they have had plenty of chances to remove it and the Grandstand.
I also thought this as an employee said it was likely to happen like that. Thing is the zamperla trains can handle 200 km/h and king da ka goes 206
@@MrHaaspaul Could be to keep speculation going
Unfortunately there will be no hill during the launch section as well. You can see the supports for the launch section are painted and still at the original Launch Angle. 0:32
Zaddy Ryan letting the mangs know that HE SAYS WHAT HE SAYS, and it’s always TRUTH! 🤣🤣
I went to Knott's recently and while talking to a ride op on the observation tower they told me these clues towards a (different?) new ride:
[ ] "Bird is the word" location (unless it was referring to ride experience?)
[ ] taller than the Knotts S&S launchtower (SkyScream(er)?) Unless he was referring to Xcelerator.
[ ] New coaster (or other ride? I'm pretty sure he said coaster) next year(/announced next year?)
Now I thought it was heavily implied or outright said that this was for Knotts, however, there is a small chance he was referring to Cedar point which would make more sense considering the TTD reimagining. From what I can tell though he seemed very dead set that it was this park/here (knotts) at that time. Now, the operator could be messing with me and maybe the info is false, but it definitely seemed to come from somewhere truthful. Considering it hasn't been announced yet, I doubt the park has 100% committed to the project and they could change their minds or comply with regulations. But I'd keep an eye out at Knotts.
My best guess is that it's not Montezuma's revenge at all and that it is xcelerator that is getting taken out or reworked in some capacity. However it could be neither and as simple as one of those sky swings.
Hey Ryan, congrats on now officially becoming the cool dad of the coaster community!
2:21 He said that it may break a height record in north America or the world, both of those would be the height record in the world...
Ryan, the flex is legit, you’ve been incredibly spot on with the info in dragster I’m super excited to see where this goes
Man just took my daughter to cedar point a few days ago, definitely noticed the support structure stuff near iron dragon, can't wait to see what they come up with, on a side note gatekeeper was a first time for me and a first coaster for my 11 year old, probably the best coaster I've ever ridden, she was terrified but amazed at the same time! Anyway great video as always, definitely keep us updated your channel is top notch coaster stuff 👍👍👍👍
Im stoked! Personally, I was looking forward to at a speed hill being added (at the least), but happy with the spike! Thanks foe the info!
they may have both
The difference between this and Superman escape, is that with the switch track, Dragster 2.0 will actually be a "Full Circuit" coaster..
But the point of cedar fair not counting shuttle coasters is that whole train *must be at record height* and *at the same height* (not back/front rows higher up then other rows) in order to claim the record, otherwise they wouldn't push for full circuit coasters
@@adakalyoncu1913I understand that, but they could make it tall enough for the whole train to reach record height... my point was more that a swing launch with a switch track (which it would almost inevitably have to have in order to meet the capacity needed for cedar point) wouldn't be a shuttle coaster.. it would in fact be a full circuit coaster.
@@Frankenberry I get your point, but back rows would always get to a greater height than front rows so it would be the roller coaster that sends riders to the highest altitude, but still not tallest coaster as there is a diffrence between what row goes to what height. It would be the roller coaster that sends it's riders to the highest altitude in the world. Like what superman escape from krypton was when magnun xl 200 was the tallest coaster. Superman escape from krypton clearly sent riders to a greater height
And no it doesn't matter if rest of the ride is full circuit. Whole train needs to be at the record height, and at the same height. It doesn't count regardless of the lowest point still being at record height, as long as they are not at the same height
@@adakalyoncu1913 It would just depend on how high they actually build it... And again, I don't actually think they're even gonna go for the height record. I mean its possible, but I doubt it. They could do it though, all they would have to do is make sure that the front of the train passes 457 feet... or whatever it is that Kingda Ka is... I really don't think they're sweating that though... they wouldn't hold it very long anyway with Falcons Flight getting built as we speak. At this point, knowing that Zamperla is building it, I'm just praying they don't end up with a 420 ft piece of lawn art.
It could be the tallest spire in the world if they do a spiral? That's a potential record. Plus, imagine going down a 400-500 ft spiral over a lake........whoa.
Anyone else notice that he said 4/20 at exactly 4:20?
Epic
Not only that, the train crests 420 ft at the exact time. And remember he was a former ride op at TTD
The high point..
@@adakalyoncu1913 I didn't even consider that one
As cool as Falcon's Flight looks, and it would make a real badass ride, don't hold your breath. The Jeddha Tower City Project and the Artifical Continents Islands taught us not to take these Saudi Megaprojects too seriously.
I’ve been saying this for so long and everybody is telling me no!
The roller coaster is already being built and has already been paid for lol. The park itself is a mega theme park project but not a mega project. Its a $1B project lol.
@@AMCustomCoasters So was Jeddha Tower.
@@TheKoopaManSho1 Jeddah Tower cost more than this entire project. The roller coaster probably cost between $70-90M. That was paid for and the construction of the coaster itself is almost done.
@@AMCustomCoasters Yes. But you are being Naive. Quiddyah isn't just the roller coaster.
honestly with the new color scheme, would not be surprised if there’s some sort of space theme especially if they’re adding a record breaking vertical spike
Why haven’t they removed the “Finish Line” sign and Grandstand then……and they have had plenty of chances to do so. Why work around them just to remove them later.
It's racing themed.
My fear of heights and love of roller coasters is starting to be tested with these new rides coming out
I just can't get excited for this. I love TTD and Cedar Fair (I have a ~17 year old TTD ornament sitting in the box on my desk if that tells you anything), but this is a huge gamble they're taking with Zamperla. Time will tell, and I hope it works out.
We're getting launched over a 420 ft hill. It will be fine lol
@@j.johnson7891 And to my knowledge Zamperla hasn't made a coaster that has exceeded 60mph and barely over 100ft. Their coaster side has always been lackluster/rough/not well received. The new wild mouse from what I hear has a lot of down time and isn't particularly smooth (can't confirm for myself currently). And now you expect them to pull off a coaster at least twice as fast and over 4 times as tall as anything they've ever done? I really do hope it's a smooth and enjoyable ride experience...
@@Galistia Well, again they aren't building TTD, outside of maybe a spike. So they haven't built a 420 ft tall coaster before this project, and they won't be able to say they've built one after, either
The key ingredient to TTD has always been the launch, which, for the majority of it's life had been an unreliable albeit fun mess. Zamperla hasn't developed launches and still won't be for this. This will be an Intrasys/Indrivetec task and from what I'm reading, the new LSM tech is insane. Even if it's slightly slower than the original hydraulic launch (it may very well be quicker, we're 16 years past Maverick's launch), I'll gladly trade that for a reimagined TTD that is actually running most of the time.
Zamperla gets a bad rap because they've mostly done family rides which, rides in that category for the most part have been "meh" across the board anyway - especially to the enthusiasts which talk about them the loudest. A brief look into Zamperla's recent history shows they're investing in the talent and have totally refocused their vision as a company to become a major player. Time will tell if they can pull it off but this is all Cedar Fair's call at the end of the day.
Wild Mouse is fun as hell by the way and not rough at all. It experienced downtime for the first few weeks of opening but I haven't seen it down at all since. That's pretty common for just about any new roller coaster.
@@j.johnson7891 They're literally adding their own track that will be traveled at at least 120mph up the spike more than likely, and potentially going even higher than what Intamin has already built. It's their new aluminum trains that haven't been on a coaster that's been over 60mph outside of some testing (I would hope). All I'm saying is I'm hoping for a smooth ride experience. Not one that will jolt, shimmy, and vibrate. Zamperla's cost cutting has yet to impress anyone.
@@j.johnson7891 You can't say it better than this LMAO
Other than Theme Park Predictions having that meltdown over the fact Zamperla is doing the work and NOT Intamin, he's been pushing out information nicely
the "new record" could just be "tallest vertical spike" because parks love to do those "it's a record category because we say it is" records
Love a late night El Toro Ryan video!
Getting closer to august always makes me so excited, so many announcements soon 🔥
I kinda hope that there is some red mixed in. Either on the trains or the supports.
I think with the clue they are showing is that the ride will have two top hats with the second being even taller; given the C and P in the keychain are so similar in shape, like two top hats. Perhaps the finish sign is a red herring to throw the journalists off. I'm sure they know how resourceful you guys can be.
Don't forget those brake fins can be used as launch fins as well.
This is my theory too. You could easily break a speed and height record doing this and you don't have to break a speed record too massively to get over a taller top hat. You can have LSMs assist with the climb up the top.
Since they closed down forbidden frontier I think the queue and entrance will be over on that island for TTD2024.
CP24PHP
I think I’ve been following this project from the start assuming you’ve been giving us solid info and others have been giving us wild speculation… you had me sold from the beginning! Hopefully it lives up to the hype 😊
First 500 foot roller coaster still counts. I'll be interested to see how Zamperla's launching system holds up vs. Intamin's. Also, will Cedar Fair part ways with Intamin, like Six Flags?
I don't think Six Flags is done with Intamin, unless during El Toro and Kingda Ka issues they parted ways and we didn't know, but Six Flags did buy an ABC Tourbillon (which were supplied by Intamin) but those weren't much of a success. Hopefully it's just cost related and Six Flags can work with Intamin on bigger projects soon💙
I think CP will stick with alternatives to Intamin especially if this project is a success. They've had horrible experiences with every single Intamin coaster at CP with Maverick, MForce, TTD, and the water ride Shoot the Rapids. However, the positive buzz about Velocicoaster at Universal might change their minds? But Universal's newest theme park opening in 2025 also uses alot of Mack rides as well as Intamin, so again not sure CP has a reason to ever go back to Intamin with Zamperla and Mack and Rocky Mountain offering such attractive alternatives.
Intamin is currently building the world's tallest roller coaster for Six Flags, so I don't know why they would be parting ways...
@@JonnyUlasien Qiddya hired Intamin, Six Flags is just slapping their name on the park from what I've heard
@@JD-ef1jb Yeah, but those 3 Intamins (plus their 1 RMC) are the reason that people travel from far and wide to go there...they wouldn't be on anyone's radar without Intamin and RMC (carrying on what they started with Magnum/Arrow).
The hyper, giga, and strata coaster delineation was based on a full circuit (i.e. it makes a complete circle) ride.
It's a technicality And also breaks their own description of height record breaking if the spike is 500 or however many feet tall.
Also, it's my home park.
I hope they do what they originally intended and remove Gemini and extend the actual spire that you go through.
4:16 I find this to be the most believable about the project :D
I clicked to see where the timestamp led to, and realized the timing of the 4/20 mention. Well played, ElToroRyan.
Today they were working like crazy, in the station, and the new brake track, they had one construction guy by the gate near by on the radio saying another piece of track was coming over
While I'm not a fan of multi-launch coasters that go forward and reverse ie Ice Breaker, Skyrocket IIs and therefore am not a fan of the spike at the beginning, I would love to see the spike at the end of the ride and then the coaster would go back through the top hat backwards.
So glad it looks like the fears we could lose Dragster all together are over. Nice to see Cedar Fair is still run by coaster lovers!
Launch forward to beyond vertical spike. Think 120 degrees.
The front train car only will break the 500ft.
Then fall backwards for the rest of the ride.
Surprisingly the record will be focused on most "floater" airtime on the beyond vertical spike. Don't think it's 10 seconds. But definitely a ton.
Space themed. But they keep the finish line. Not sure if it's called "Andromeda" but I seen that name on the schematic.
Makes sense. Won't break the speed record. But with the new lightning trains, it can garnish some air. Wonder if the speed over the top hat will be faster?
It’s not going to be a spike. It’s going to be a “point”. 😉 thank me later…..
The ending hill was probably decided against, so it did not copy the Six Flags version. I cannot wait to see what comes of this reimagining.
One thing not really mentioned: the top hat's transitions from horizontal to vertical take up roughly 200 ft of horizontal land each, whereas the spike's back footers are roughly 170 ft from where the roof of the old station roof ends. Either the transition into the spike is going to be extremely tight in terms of G-forces, or it isn't going to be 420+ ft.
The support structure between the top hat and the spike won't necessarily be the same, so this might not be the best metric in terms of estimating the height
Thank you! It still isn’t likely it’ll be taller. It’s popular to hope for, it certainly MAY happen, but there’s just been no true evidence of it being taller. Personally I think the spike is gonna be sub 420ft. Big bummer but I think that’s most realistic.
Who knows though can’t wait to see either way!
Or it will start before the station and have a sort of step up element
Nah I think High Point is the city in North Carolina, and the redesign will be themed to furniture
Look, I love tall rides as much as the next guy, but a 600 foot tall rollercoaster might be a smidge much for me. Who knows, in 20 years it might be the standard, I'm sure when Magnum opened in '89 there were probably people who were like "200 feet!! woah that might be too tall"
Well, although I do agree with your take. If I ever get the chance to ride that 600ft coaster I'm doing it lol
@@jpgiles1725 oh definitely
Totally unrelated to this post but Ryan I got to lap Toro like 7 times yesterday!!! Park was empty lol, great video by the way excited to see what Zamperla winds up doing when all is said and done!
Nice to see my footage in your video! Really nice video 👌🏻
I love how I get off a 2 hour phone call with my coaster buddy talking about plans and Knoebels stuff……. And new video!
Been waiting for this all day! Can't believe what I hear until it's presented or confirmed by EltoroRyan
Was just at CP and they have replaced the dragster sign with the new logo and with the word Racing in the middle. There are also two sidewalk decals of the logo with the word Racing in the middle.
I just don’t understand how it makes any sense to have a spike that high. They’d need an insane backwards launch followed by a tiny boost to get over the top hat. They have all that track between the spike and the top hat, it makes sense to have a spike somewhere around 300ft so you still utilize the full launch section for the swing launch. Maybe I’m way off but seems like that would make a pretty sad boost coming off a spike that tall with all that speed already for a long piece of straight track
They could always put LSMs on the spike itself. And I'm sure that track will fly by at 130 mph....
@@N9197U I agree they definitely could, but why is the question? It’s just super overkill and even that fast it’s straight track longer than makes sense
It’s not going to be a spike. It’s going to be a “point”. 😉 thank me later…..
@@truthseekingman 🤯🤯🤯
Bro I saw Boonton Nj on the tag and I live literally the town over.
Maybe It'll be marketed as the tallest and fastest swing launch coaster?
Babe wake up, eltororyan just posted
The sheer magnitude of the acceleration of OGTTD is nearly unmatched.
But if the drop is legitimately over 500ft, this is going to be an incredible ride.
Finally someone who is not clickbaiting. I respect the hustle and all, but man I don’t really care about the color or the footers. Well, I did…. The first time one of my guys uploaded. ETR, waited to collect all the news, and I respect that.
All the people in these comments going "Cedar Point would NEVER go back on their assertion of height records only applying to full circuit roller coasters" as if their marketing team would give a shit. The total number of people who would notice or care makes up 0.01% of their annual guest count. They already have mildly conflicting takes on their arbitrary definitions of hyper and giga, with Magnum not quite having a 200' drop and Orion not quite having a 300' height-above-grade. At the end of the day it's all imaginary and coaster records don't mean anything - we know this.
maybe NR stands for 2 things: New Record...and Not Really
I don't know if the spike will be taller but they will almost certainly break a speed record with this either way
IDK man I really think they could kill two birds with one stone
Thanks for the updates! I can't wait!!
Nr is now reimagined
Thanks for the update. I have been predicting over 600' for a while now. The footers are too massive to be going 200, and they would not add a spike at all without a purpose. It is unnecessary to get over the tophat, but necessary to enhance the ride and get a record. Terminal velocity for a coaster in free fall is around 120 so you can't really go too high. Being CP, you are not getting close to a record without taking it. A spike on Dragster is still a complete circuit coaster. We go to 600' to get the entire train over the record. Those of us old enough to have followed the original TTD construction can see the same pattern which we assume is for the same reason. Watching a record construction without an announcement but lots of teasers is huge publicity for the park. It is tons of free advertising. Due to the hype last time the announcement was delayed from Aug to Jan and I would expect an announcement around Dec or Jan when season passes go on sale. I don't know if they can get a speed record, but they are definitely going for height. And for those still hoping for a twisted back spike, the triangle of footers pointing towards the station indicates a straight spike. Also remember there are two more footers way back behind the spike triangle. Look for two massive diagonal supports to stabilize the massive spike. It is possible the spike is built in such a way that it could be increased in the future if needed to maintain the record.
They only need to go 9 mph faster to beat King da Ka. 120 isn't far off. Add a small LSM booster after the free fall and you blast past 128 mph no problem.
Seems like they're going for a Formula 1 theme on this. The white and gray colors almost mimic a race track , and the key chain clue looks like a race logo. Seeing as how Dragster's are not so relevant these days it could make sense that they're updating it to the more current/popular motor sport. That finish line hasn't been removed either...🤔
How do we know that HP stands for "High Point" and not "Horse Power"? And what if NR simply stands for *"Now Reversed"* to reference the backwards launch? If Zamperla really is adding the new track, there's no way they're building a new structure over 400 feet tall. It's in their business interest to demonstrate they can build ground-up launched coasters 100-150 tall, because that's where the market is. There just isn't any reason for the spike to be more than 160 feet tall. One backwards launch to 55-65 mph is enough to set up the forward launch to 120.
i’ve always interpreted PHP to either mean Project Horsepower or Pure Horse Power but this makes more sense
I’m just wondering how the spike could be taller than the top hat, as wouldn’t that make the subsequent launch not necessary due to the speed from gravity?
right it’s extremely weird
Presumably you'd do a forward launch partway up the top hat, a backwards launch up the spike, and then gravity (plus whatever you need to get back from loss due to friction) to go over the top hat. So the third "launch" is likely going to contribute very little additional power, but what other option is there without rebuilding the top hat?
It’s not going to be a spike. It’s going to be a “point”. 😉 thank me later…..
I totally agree with everyone saying that they will claim highest point on a coaster, not tallest coaster. Cedar Point loves to get a little silly and specific with record claims but I think it's all part of the fun.
They may break a new record with it, but they probably aren't aiming for height this time. It could easily become the fastest coaster with a Swing launch, the tallest Swing launch, and fastest backwards launch.
You forgot to mention the worlds tallest backwards drop as well, if we assume it does a roll back as part of the ride.
@@alexzrnic3139 I completely forgot about that but yes that could be a possible record too.
i’m so hyped for this ride
I also fail to see how this is going to improve the capacity problem they had with the original. They gonna get more than 2 trains for this running at once?
Awesome video man! Thanks for the update!
i remember waiting for this for so long but now it’s almost open
Yooooo Dragster will be INSANE next year!
Regardless, Tony will NOT disappoint. This will epic CP satisfaction for the 🌎...
Anything’s a record if you make it so: The first Strata to be repainted white and grey
Sounds like a record they would actually claim
Judging by the logo i’m speculating half the ride will be white and the other half red? would definitely be an interesting look
Hoping it’ll be open by the time I go there with my son and father next year.
it would be weird for the spike to be much taller than the top hat, so the acceleration is non existent than.
It’s not going to be a spike. It’s going to be a “point”. 😉 thank me later…..
If this thing gets announced on august 16th, that’ll be one great birthday present.
Looking forward to riding the 1000 foot tall spike!
the logo might be the new layout an oval with 2 spikes
About the color scheme.
I'm wondering if there will be a gradient into red on the top of the top hat or spike.
Maybe they are adding the spike and switching it to an LSM style launch coaster where it will go up the top hat, back up to the spike and then completely over the top hat.
the 500 foot spike def makes more sense from a marketing perspective, if you’re spending all this money you may as well get a record out of it. but from a ride perspective it still seems weird to have a swing launch where basically the ride is supposed to *slow down* on the third launch having already hit a high point almost 100 feet higher than the top-hat
It’s not gonna be a spike. It’s going to be a “point”. 😉
I think it should go all the way off the end and then parachute into the lagoon.
😂😂😂😂
Zamperla’s rumored involvement genuinely scares me. My local park is OWA in Orange Beach, AL, and the only “legit” coaster they have is Rollin’ Thunder by Zamperla, and I have -NEVER- had a coaster physically hurt me like that one, with the one exception being riding Thunder Mountain at Disney with 4 freshly herniated vertebrae (yeahhhhhh I know).
They're actually building Falcons Flight? Sweet!
I hope to visit CP next week but sad that TTD isnt open. I guess I'll have to come back again!!! Oh no.
"NR" is meant to stand for "new record" but the park won't know for sure if that title is achieved until testing begins, so it's not present in the marketing hashtag. Ya welcome
Omg falcons flight is actually being made
*finally* been waiting on this video for the past 2 weeks 😭
Man, I hope you’re right I’m pumped
I'm going to CP soon so I can't wait to see some track
I think they are going to raise the top hat. I know that's crazy that's just what the clues are telling me. In fact, I think this latest "Polaris" screenshot leak is the template for the ride description (and may have even been "leaked" TC himself) but the real speed and height numbers are numbers are going to be WAY higher. I think this spike will be slightly inverted and 400+ feet tall.
The animation that shows the top of Power Tower wayyy down there in the distance looking like a kiddie ride makes me want to vomit thinking about. I'll make sure I sit in the back of the train so it doesn't get on everyone. LIke you Ryan I used to work on coasters (Dueling Dragons) and know how much of a pain in the ass puke is. Have to respect the ops.