Hi Andrew, a degree wheel, wire pointer and dial indicator will show the most accurate relationship of valve train to crankshaft. This would be simple to print off and mount to the flywheel. Exact TDC is easily found and noted, then valve train can be adjusted accordingly. Love the build, thanks for sharing Cheers
Well that was complicated. It is hard enough to arrange timing without the flywheel going one direction while the timing wheel goes two circuits in the other direction. I admire your patience working through it all. Your solution to the flywheel problem was beautifully simple. A proper ten bob job! It would be exciting to see the engine run on one cylinder and probably a worthwhile test as you said. I am just off to give my brain a rest now having worked it hard following all that calculating😂
Glad to see the penny finally dropped with the flywheel collet mounting direction. On the point of running the engine as a single cylinder with one spark plug removed,it may be better to leave both plugs in place and just disconnect one of the ignition systems. If you try to run the engine with one plug removed you may find the cylinder with no plug in causes a lot of pumping drag and acts as a decompressor type engine brake and causes too much drag for the working cylinder to run. I've had this experience in a real world situation when my friends 900 Ducati twin lost sparks to the rear cylinder and we still had about 50 miles journey left to get home. When he removed the spark plug from the dead cylinder the load/drag from the dead cylinder was far greater than when the spark plug was left in situ. Edit to add: the engine braking drag effect I describe is caused by the air having to be sucked back in through a very small orifice with only atmospheric pressure from the outside on the downward piston stroke which causes a partial vacuum inside the cylinder. The upward piston stroke does not suffer anything like the same drag due to the air above the piston being expelled at for above atmospheric pressure as the piston causes a positive pumping displacement.
Andrew, you are making good progress with this engine and I'm looking forward to your next video! I've never seen a Quorn in person, but if memory serves, it takes a lot of "learning about it" to properly use one based on what I've read. Congratulations on your new (to you) acquisition!
Thanks Bob. I was thinking of making my own Quorn from castings but I concluded it could take many years. It certainly looks complicated but I hope it's something I will be able to get my head around. I've got the original operating instructions and the Quorn book. A local engineering company recently had a clear out and I acquired a couple of hundred end mills. If I can master end mill sharpening I won't need to buy any more. That's the plan! Cheers Andrew
Andrew, engine will run fine on one cylinder, even with spark plug in. The degree wheel does allow for more precise timing. I did not loctite cam lobes in position until final timing, this allows for fine adjustment. Once timing is set, take a picture as you can use reference for future timing. Have fun with the carburetors, that are a real pain as configuration is mirrored. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Maurice. Thanks for the advice. I never thought about holding off with the loctite - that was many moons ago! I might revisit the valve timing if the engine runs like a 3-legged dog. Yeah - the carbs. I made both the bodies a while back when I made a JH carb for the Hoglet engine. Quite difficult doing the mirrored one. I think I ended up scanning the drawing and printing a mirrored version. Cheers for now. Andrew
I see you had to notch the valve cover to clear the bolt head on the oil pump. I did as well. Also, I built one of the carbs for this engine and it runs fine with just the one with a manifold
Hi Andrew. it seems to me that you can fire two plugs together (like a triumph) with one ignition system with two magnets for the pickup. that would simplify the electrical. one plug would just fire in an exhaust stroke and the other would be firing on the compression. Rich
The problem with bonding the cams to the gears beforehand is that you can only move the setting by one tooth on the gear which equates to two turns of the crank.....720 degrees divided by 21 = 34 degrees which is not ideal. I'm not at that stage yet but I might try to make the gears a tight fit on the cams so that they could be taken off and adjusted if needed, then loctited once the valve timing is acceptable.
Fair point Terry. If I were to do it again I might go with that approach. However the engine does run really well so I guess it was my lucky day. Cheers Andrew
Hi Andrew, I'm just starting out making the v twin engine and your video is a great help so thanks for that. I'm not to far from you, I'm in the Peak District. Did you consider the twin Rcexl unit, I'm assuming it has two separate pick ups. It's not much more expensive that the single. I have used the single unit on my "Farm boy" (built following another of your videos) and it works really well.
Hi Terry I used a twin RCEXL unit on my Hoglet v-twin and it worked well. From memory it needs two magnets, one north facing and one south facing. There is a dual hall effect sensor which recognises both north and south and fires the appropriate plug. However for the JH v-twin I decided to stick to the drawing and I purchased two separate RCEXL units. A bit more expensive but I learned the hard way by not sticking with drawings in the past. Hope that helps and good luck. Cheers Andrew
From playing about with old motorcycles when setting the timing you should only turn the flywheel in the running direction this takes all the lash from the timing gears. Rocking the flywheel backwards then forwards again introduces error
I should have explained... After marking TDC and BDC of both cylinders on the flywheel, I used a protractor to mark the other positions. I guess a degree wheel would have been more accurate.
I’m convinced that the timing will work for you. Can you adjust spark timing in real time (engine running), to retard or advance the spark to bring it closer in relation to the valve timing?
I believe Your flywheel is still wrong. The nut needs to clamp on the flywheel, not the tapered bush. That way the flywheel will be drawn onto the taper. As it is, the nut is only clamping the bush. You need a recessed spacer behind the nut to clamp on the flywheel and draw it onto the bush.
Just one thing if your buy a twin cylinder LV type Rcexl CDI then you can run the engine with one hall sensor and two magnets one north one south, just thought that might help.
Hi. Thanks for the suggestion. I used the method you suggest on the Hoglet and it works well. However I thought I would stick to the JH drawings in this particular case. Cheers Andrew
Hi andrew.
Good job on the v-twin. Congratulations for the quorn. Useful machine to grind your cutting tools yourself.
👍👍👍👍👍
OL6162
Hi Andrew, a degree wheel, wire pointer and dial indicator will show the most accurate relationship of valve train to crankshaft. This would be simple to print off and mount to the flywheel. Exact TDC is easily found and noted, then valve train can be adjusted accordingly.
Love the build, thanks for sharing
Cheers
Thanks Rick. Yeah a degree wheel would have been a better option but hopefully I've got it close. If not I will revisit it.
All the best.
Andrew
Gday, your getting close now mate, looking good
Thanks Matty. I hope you get your health problems all sorted out. All the best. Andrew
Thanks for sharing 👍
Cheers Craig 👍
I have said it before and now I will say it again. That is a beautiful engine. Can't wait to hear it run.
Great video as always Andrew - thanks a lot for sharing! Can't wait to see the next video. I'm sure it will run.
Well that was complicated. It is hard enough to arrange timing without the flywheel going one direction while the timing wheel goes two circuits in the other direction. I admire your patience working through it all. Your solution to the flywheel problem was beautifully simple. A proper ten bob job! It would be exciting to see the engine run on one cylinder and probably a worthwhile test as you said. I am just off to give my brain a rest now having worked it hard following all that calculating😂
Hi Tim. It did my brain in a little too. Hopefully I've got it reasonably close.
Cheers
Andrew
Glad to see the penny finally dropped with the flywheel collet mounting direction.
On the point of running the engine as a single cylinder with one spark plug removed,it may be better to leave both plugs in place and just disconnect one of the ignition systems. If you try to run the engine with one plug removed you may find the cylinder with no plug in causes a lot of pumping drag and acts as a decompressor type engine brake and causes too much drag for the working cylinder to run. I've had this experience in a real world situation when my friends 900 Ducati twin lost sparks to the rear cylinder and we still had about 50 miles journey left to get home. When he removed the spark plug from the dead cylinder the load/drag from the dead cylinder was far greater than when the spark plug was left in situ.
Edit to add: the engine braking drag effect I describe is caused by the air having to be sucked back in through a very small orifice with only atmospheric pressure from the outside on the downward piston stroke which causes a partial vacuum inside the cylinder.
The upward piston stroke does not suffer anything like the same drag due to the air above the piston being expelled at for above atmospheric pressure as the piston causes a positive pumping displacement.
Hi Howard. Yup the penny finally dropped 😂. Thanks for the really detailed explanation too!
All the best
Andrew
Andrew, you are making good progress with this engine and I'm looking forward to your next video! I've never seen a Quorn in person, but if memory serves, it takes a lot of "learning about it" to properly use one based on what I've read. Congratulations on your new (to you) acquisition!
Thanks Bob. I was thinking of making my own Quorn from castings but I concluded it could take many years. It certainly looks complicated but I hope it's something I will be able to get my head around. I've got the original operating instructions and the Quorn book. A local engineering company recently had a clear out and I acquired a couple of hundred end mills. If I can master end mill sharpening I won't need to buy any more. That's the plan!
Cheers
Andrew
Congratulations on the Quorn.
Thanks Noel. I just need to work out how to use it! 😵💫
Thank you for showing the trouble shooting!!!!
Interesting video Andrew. Hopefully soon it will be running. Congrats on the Quorn.
Steve.
Thanks Steve. If I ever manage to work out how to sharpen end mills you can always bob round to get yours done too.
Cheers
Andrew
@learningturningmetal thanks Andrew.
I might just take you up on that Andrew. It would be nice to meet other tubers in person.
Steve.@@learningturningmetal
Andrew, engine will run fine on one cylinder, even with spark plug in. The degree wheel does allow for more precise timing. I did not loctite cam lobes in position until final timing, this allows for fine adjustment. Once timing is set, take a picture as you can use reference for future timing. Have fun with the carburetors, that are a real pain as configuration is mirrored. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Maurice. Thanks for the advice. I never thought about holding off with the loctite - that was many moons ago! I might revisit the valve timing if the engine runs like a 3-legged dog. Yeah - the carbs. I made both the bodies a while back when I made a JH carb for the Hoglet engine. Quite difficult doing the mirrored one. I think I ended up scanning the drawing and printing a mirrored version.
Cheers for now.
Andrew
I see you had to notch the valve cover to clear the bolt head on the oil pump. I did as well. Also, I built one of the carbs for this engine and it runs fine with just the one with a manifold
Now that is interesting 👍👍👍👍
Hi Andrew. it seems to me that you can fire two plugs together (like a triumph) with one ignition system with two magnets for the pickup. that would simplify the electrical. one plug would just fire in an exhaust stroke and the other would be firing on the compression.
Rich
Hi Rich. Yeah you are correct. The Hoglet worked like that. However I'm going to stick to the drawing.
Cheers
Andree
The problem with bonding the cams to the gears beforehand is that you can only move the setting by one tooth on the gear which equates to two turns of the crank.....720 degrees divided by 21 = 34 degrees which is not ideal. I'm not at that stage yet but I might try to make the gears a tight fit on the cams so that they could be taken off and adjusted if needed, then loctited once the valve timing is acceptable.
Fair point Terry. If I were to do it again I might go with that approach. However the engine does run really well so I guess it was my lucky day.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Andrew, I'm just starting out making the v twin engine and your video is a great help so thanks for that. I'm not to far from you, I'm in the Peak District. Did you consider the twin Rcexl unit, I'm assuming it has two separate pick ups. It's not much more expensive that the single. I have used the single unit on my "Farm boy" (built following another of your videos) and it works really well.
Hi Terry
I used a twin RCEXL unit on my Hoglet v-twin and it worked well. From memory it needs two magnets, one north facing and one south facing. There is a dual hall effect sensor which recognises both north and south and fires the appropriate plug. However for the JH v-twin I decided to stick to the drawing and I purchased two separate RCEXL units. A bit more expensive but I learned the hard way by not sticking with drawings in the past.
Hope that helps and good luck.
Cheers
Andrew
“Internal combustion clock timing…!”
Waiting for the tool grinder in action as well.
From playing about with old motorcycles when setting the timing you should only turn the flywheel in the running direction this takes all the lash from the timing gears. Rocking the flywheel backwards then forwards again introduces error
Thanks for the advice. I must bear that in mind next time.
Cheers
Andrew
I can't understand how you can adjust cam timing without using a degree wheel
I should have explained... After marking TDC and BDC of both cylinders on the flywheel, I used a protractor to mark the other positions. I guess a degree wheel would have been more accurate.
I’m convinced that the timing will work for you. Can you adjust spark timing in real time (engine running), to retard or advance the spark to bring it closer in relation to the valve timing?
Fingers crossed. Yeah the ignition can be advanced and retarded independently.
Cheers
Andrew
I believe Your flywheel is still wrong. The nut needs to clamp on the flywheel, not the tapered bush. That way the flywheel will be drawn onto the taper. As it is, the nut is only clamping the bush. You need a recessed spacer behind the nut to clamp on the flywheel and draw it onto the bush.
Are you sure ? It looks to me that the nut already clamps against the flywheel. Look where the collet sits ( at 3:00 ).
@@chrisarmstrong8198 maybe you are right
Hi Andrew. I can confirm that the nut does actually clamp against the flywheel. It might not be that clear in the video.
Cheers
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal love your videos. Keep up the good work.
Just one thing if your buy a twin cylinder LV type Rcexl CDI then you can run the engine with one hall sensor and two magnets one north one south, just thought that might help.
Hi. Thanks for the suggestion. I used the method you suggest on the Hoglet and it works well. However I thought I would stick to the JH drawings in this particular case.
Cheers
Andrew