This excites me! I'm currently running an 18 KW Rheem on demand water heater. It's just me and I use less than 1,000 Gallons per month total (hot and cold). The Rheem puts me way ahead of running a traditional hot water heater all the time. The amortization on this system would be forever for me but I'm still excited to investigate the possibility of using this. I didn't realize I had missed any of your videos. I'm off to find the installation video. Thank you for all the great information you put out there.
Very interesting. Going strait to the tank element and avoiding the energy usage of larger inverters is a great idea I have pondered in the past. Thanks for sharing Scott.
It's like adding batteries to your system, the tank is charged and discharged every day (heat) but without adding more power capabilities to your inverter system, which makes building a off grid system cheaper. One less load to worry about. And hot water is the #2 power sucker, #1 is A/C.
i'm not sold on this device. You don't really need a thermostat do we? With the wattages we would be adding to the system and the safety's built in to the water heater. I see no reason to run this device though the t-stat when I can hook my panels direct to the element. I may be wrong and I hope someone has more info.
Especially after watching some of your videos, I'm thinking of doing this as on our farm. Part of my testing phase would be to see if I can use solar to supplement our electric hot water heater on our family dairy farm. I've got an extra water heater, so I was thinking I could plumb it in series, let solar "preheat" a 50 gallon tank before it hits our 120 gallon tank. Yes, it sounds like a lot of hot water, but for our operations, we need quite a bit of hot water for a relatively short duration.
Neat and clean, I like! I’m curious how this compares to tying into an existing PV system. I was planning a low voltage element on a heat pump water heater in the lower position but arcing of the thermostat was not something I was aware of. I suspect that mounting the controller/heat sink as an adjunct to the heat scavenging of the heat pump would appropriate.
I've recently install a 900 watt system with this board. I used three panels culled from my grid tie system. the panels had some minor flaws but were free. I pole mounted using a parking lot light pole that I shortened 6 ft. So i had less than $400 in the entire project. Thats a 10 month payback. I leave the grid element off an have plenty of hot water in current situation. Your mileage may vary. The system has usually cut off by noon so I'm pondering what to do with the unused power. Probably will change t'stat to switching type (like used on upper element) and feed a small space heater in the winter to add a few btu's to the living space. I'm totally satisfied with this setup. A shower always feels better with free hot water. Don't listen to all of these second guessers. It has done exactly what e775 said it would do!
Scott - great work. I’d be curious to know how it performs after a year, though. Surely it’s going to be problematic after a string of overcast, cold days? That seems too obvious,so surely I’m missing something!
I think that is why the top element is grid connected ;0) ..... That top element being used for a short time is where the $4/ month comes from! Unless I got it wrong....
A 10 min shower uses 1 x 250W panel of energy per day. So 1 person = 1 panel. Would be nice if you could explain some of the math on costs vs. payback. Impressive low cost solar panel mounts that I will start recommending to people.
What's more impressive than $3 ground mounts is $3 to heat your water per month. I did state that the elements are disconnected. 2 elements can and do run at the same time with this set up because they are fed independently. I did say they were disconnected from each other. right? I make 6-8 kWh a day with this setup or 20k BTUs -27k BTUs.
Glenn Holcomb I have added hot water and electric over to an area we are going to turn into laundry, bath and water heater. So, now I will be doing an electric water heater and the solar addition is a possibility. Thanks for the reminder.
Great hearing your review of this device. I picked one up about 6 months ago, but haven’t installed it yet. Will probably hook it up in another month or so. Thanks for sharing this.
I found your channel about 3 months ago and wow!!!! I love the outside of the box thinking you do!! What a cool project!!! Have you ever thought of using this for radiant heat floor and a recerp pump? This is awesome hopefully it works for my system, I’m also wondering about using underground radiant heat in showers and using in the house?? Will that work, keep bringing these videos rolling
Great video and setup. I would love to do that. I am going to be moving to the west coast of Canada and would like to use more renewable energy. I would be very interested in doing the single element or possibly even the double element version. I have enjoyed a few of your videos and look forward to learning more about solar direct and battery systems. Thanks, Mohamed
The Camco 11774 is an additional thin heating element that can be placed into a tank with any port. It is 8 inches long and is rated 635W at 120V. Do not confuse this with 11674 which is shorter at 6 1/2 inches and 425W. Both elements can be found less than $20. These come with a threaded brass adapter with ferule seal. Installation can be seen by watching the complete kit 11673 hybrid heater video. A threaded collar with a sacrificial anode is also available. I've seen these installed in the lower drain. This would allow some supplemental heating. Standard elements are too big to get thru a 3/4 inch hole.
Doubt it. There are no digital controls on an electric water heater, therefore it is very flexible for projects like this. But how about preheating a tanked heater upstream of your tankless?
I like how you do that that should be something very interesting for the hot water heater we have here I live in Florida though all that in a 4 bedroom house on an acre of land I want to get the AC to be able to run off solar I've heard about it in Arizona they're doing that I have a big Barnes facing in the South with the Sun comes over evenly... very interesting where did you get your solar panels from?..
Have a question, you said the solar heating is not running all day. Can you design a relay setup that would allow heating 2 water tanks? The main tank is the priority. When the main tank is up to temp and no longer taking power, then it switches power to a second (Pre-Heat) tank. If the main tank calls for more heat then it switches power back to the main. This would allow cold water to be preheated when there is extra power that the main does not need. I would be interested in a package that could support this... Summerville, SC.
Also, I've always thought it would be cool to build a shower in a closed loop. As you shower, filter the drain water, add a little heat to get it back to full temp and use the same hot water the hole shower. Like a 3 gal system. If everyone took showers one after the other, you would heat the water once then just add heat to keep it hot. I bet filtering shower water is easier than filtering drinking water.
I live in the Netherlands. We have electric water heaters that use 230Volt electric elements. Will this controller work on this to, or is it only working for the 110 Volt heating elements that you use in your country?
Almost all water heaters in the US are 240V. as in your country. Power changes with the square of the voltage. If panels are half that voltage, the power will be 1/4 of the elements rating. This is offset by the system running almost all daylight hours. Fortunately, I have access to 2000W 120V heating elements and I can run my system off 60V with ease using whatever extra power is not needed by the batteries as low as 5W or as high as 500W.
@@opera5714 well...glad to see that you got the math exactly right; with your 60 volts, then 500 watts is the maximum; but i still see lots of interneters around here that can't apply ohms law; well...
Will this work on a 2000watt (110v) 20 gallon tank? And what is the max wattage you can put on it? Can this work as a pre-heating tank before it goes to a propane on demand heater?
I sent this same question to both Scott and Techluck twice in the past year and never got a response. That should tell you right there they don't care about customers.
Your link no longer takes me to the Techluk controller. I understand it may not be available right now but will you have it in the future. Any other options similar to this ?
I'm pondering hooking up solar direct to my lower element. Bypassing the T-stat. I'm going to regulate the heat the element produces during the day by adding/removing solar panels. I have 5 elements that differ in wattage and 3 excel sheets of info on these elements. I'm not sure I even need this device. What advice can you give?
Hi. Have u considered adding a meter discharge as this one on the AC feed from the MPPT controller before the bottom element? Could this then track the energy produced by the system and provided to the tank?
Better than paying the power company ALL the time. Even SC (E775) has weather, it's a planet wide type of thing. You can keep paying the power company while you wait for a Star Trek style weather modification system, or dedicate 4 panels like E775 did with a grid back up on the top element and take a big chunk out of your power bill.
The link on your site called: "Ask a question about this product" does not work. It gives a not found error. I'm trying to find out how many panels do I need for my water heater that has 4500 watt elements.
I am going go try this at my house for our home use. However, this got me thinking, Can this system be set up to warm a 10,000 gallon pool to extend the usable season?
Why do you need the charge controller? Since this isn't a regular battery, you don't have to worry about over current or voltage. You would want the thermostat, but I don't understand the charge controller.
Solar panels have a power point voltage and dropping below that loses a lot of power. Power is a function of the square of the voltage so a drop in voltage has significant effect on power.. A fixel load is disastrous on power as light levels decrease. For less than two hours a day, a controller doesn't matter. Standard mechanical thermostats get destroyed by high voltage DC unless they are pulsed.
I'd like to hear about your experience. I've done extensive testing with PV hot water for years and what you say is pretty hard to do. Sure must be sunny and a small tank.
Hi scott, I have 1,ooo watts of 12 volt solar panels. I have them paralleled to 48 volts. I have them tied directly to a 48 volt dc hot water heater. It is December in North Carolina but I am only getting 38 volts and 10.8 amps measured by my volt meter. That equates to 410 watts at the heater element. So, after a 6 hour sunny day, the temp in my hot water heater only goes up 10 degrees. It makes no sense. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, Mike
You need to match the resistance of the panels to the resistance of the heater element. www.davidpoz.com/ has a sweet excel calculator for this. It seems like you're pretty close though since its december and 410 watts in a 1000w array is about right give or take. How many gallons is your tank?
Michael Minga if all panels aren’t not identical the four will be limited by the lowest output panel, also check ohms, without mppt your panels will be operating at a dead short thus never building amperage, remember amps don’t increase when putting panels in series
I am sure you have considered hot water collectors. You are too smart for not having analyzed this option, and I, for one, would be greatly interested to hear what you have to say on this. How could this option be used together with the MultiAqua chiller, for instance? As I am sure you know, they are very popular in Europe (known as Combi and Combi+). Combi is solar hot water from the sun for the faucets. Combi+ is solar hot water for faucets and comfort heat. You may save money by installing hot water collectors for hot water and your monthly cost of operation will drop from ~$4 per month to $0 (free). You, also, save money two ways: 1- install less PV panels 2- install less batteries You save by requiring less energy for hot water production since you replace a portion of thermal energy with direct solar thermal energy. This reduces required PV energy by using it mostly for electrical appliances. Solar hot water collectors are around ~75% efficient compared to ~20 efficiency for PV panels, and a “good” panel can produce daily on average around 7kWh per day.
This option is simpler & cheaper then direct thermal solar hot water. With this option you simply add a small amount of solar to the lower heater element. Not too much or your not harnessing what the panels have to offer not too little or you won't heat the tank from the solar panels. You mentioned batteries? This method doesn't use batteries at all it only heats the lower element during the daytime. Adding a $5,000 thermal solar hot water system just to save $4 a month simply does not make sense when compared to this $600 option
No pumps no pipes no drain back no pressure reservoirs no freezing temperatures to worry about just run a couple wires from the solar panel is so much easier than all of that. And the cost of solar is so cheap now
dave swords this 50 gal tank is most likely 240V, with a 4500/5000 watt heating element. So from that perspective yes. He only said he intentionally blew one circuit board but not what overload voltage/wattage was involved. I’m also curious if each element is rated at 4500 watts or if that’s split over two elements. If it’s split, your 3kw might be too much
how much for this mppt controller? where can i order im in bc canada. does it have to be this charge controller to do this ?can i use other mppt charge controllers?
For 13 yrs I have made hot water off my boiler and will continue to do so in the winter but this setup saves me having to process a lot of wood! I also have the hydronic chiller connected to my home which takes rejected heat from my home and recovers into my water heater. So my sources for hot water into one tank are ...this controller, a wood boiler, a Heat recovery chiller, a 8k hybrid solar system can run the top element and then the Grid if I have too.
@@engineer775 Can you explain what exactly the MPPT does that improves on the use of "Wild" wattage coming out of the panels and putting energy into the water?
I can appreciate a PV-direct system, but I'm more of a SOLAR-direct kinda bear. Black trash can sitting out on a sunny driveway, in other words. My physical challenges prevent my installing a gravity feed anything, but I can haul hot water from the driveway. So no, its not ideal or even all that efficient, but it works for me where I live. (NE of LA, Calif)
Im sorry my friend..I don't know much about electricity but I'm a solar energy proponent... let me ask you a question... how you compare this with a DC solar tank ... it's basically the same thing or not?
@@engineer775 thanks for responding... there's a device in the market that acts like a termostato (??)...but receives the power from the panels directly... basically DC device
@@engineer775 ...my English is rather limited,I apologise... basically what I want to know is if that device that you show require any additional inverter to work or if it can receive DC power from the panels?
Thanks for this information. This is where I would be starting from. This wouldn't be a good financial decision for my particular situation but FREE every month sure does sound good.
I don't understand how this works, something doesn't make sense to me here. Does the controller regulate over temp? What happens on a sunny day when you're not using hot water, what regulates the temp? You have one mosfet for 1200W, what's the current that mosfet dissipates? Doesn't that depends on the voltage someone's modules are developing? If all a PV is developing is 24V (VMPP) that means the mosfet is absorbing 50 amps! Do you have a schematic of the wiring system? On another note, you can't run a system without batteries, batteries absorb starting loads like fridges, washing machines, freezers, well pumps, etc. The overhead you would need to run direct PV would be massive and then there's nights with no PV. Without back up you can't have lighting, TV or the pump that builds water pressure. You could put a holding tank up in the air 30 or 40 feet but what happen in cold climates, does the water in that tank freeze? There's a reason why we use back up power.
My idea may work better. (Stack Two smaller tanks on top each other with a transfer pipe. Bottom tank solar, top tank mains). The lower solar tank will heat both tanks at the same time, cause heat rises! It's like double energy storage
Heat pump water heaters are great in the right locations. Taking heat from your home that you were going to waste anyway or have to use energy to overcome is great to move into making hot water.
Good video. Have you ever installed the Stiebel Eltron heat pump water heaters? I've been looking at those and they said that for every watt the fan and compressor use, it produces 3 to 5 watts of hot water. I've been thinking that here in the south, taking hot air inside your home, like the kitchen area with a stove oven and refrigerator, and putting it into the water heater, and the fan push COLD air out, just makes a lot of sense to help with AC as well as making hot water. Especially here in Louisiana. If a few solar panels can run some thing like the water heater below, I think that would really be a win win. Here's what I'm looking at. www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/products/accelera-heat-pump-water-heaters I copied a small part of what they said below about the one watt and 3 to 5 watts. These are Stiebel Eltron heat pump water heaters. It has always been obvious to us that a heat pump water heater ought to make hot water with the heat pump, and not with a back-up element. This simple solution seems to have escaped others. Yet it has made our heat pump water heater the largest seller in Europe for over 35 years. Until recently, the best “high efficiency” water heaters could only approach 100% efficiency. Heat pump water heater technology redefines water heater efficiency, producing efficiencies more than 3 times that. For every watt an Accelera’s compressor and fan uses, the equivalent of 3-5 watts of hot water are generated. In warm climates, an Accelera® is placed either in the garage, where it uses the heat from the outside air to make hot water, or inside the house, where it helps with the air conditioning load. In cooler climates, the unit is typically placed in the basement where it also acts as a dehumidifier. You get hot water at a discount plus a drier basement as well. Keep up the great work.
Ray, yes many of us have connected PV panels directly to elements. Like you said they are just resistors. However with this board you can not only use the OEM element and thermostat but it keeps the voltage high and the overall process efficient. Its like trying to charge a battery with a panel direct compared to using an MPPT charger. This lil controller takes care of both issues nicely.
Scott, I assume at night you are running off stored hot water? (You also mention having a heat recovery unit feeding that heat exchanger loop - how much heat is that putting in?) Could you use this to source heat for a small hydronic floor heat setup do you think?
I am only using the controller with no help from the chiller or wood boiler. THe grid will kick in when the weather is bad and there is heavy use. Yes, running off of stored hot water. It keeps up with our home use but to heat it would take a lot more solar and more controllers/tanks.
But the element only cost $10 and when you live with no access to electronics or technology this is a good option if it takes all day to make hot water so what it's free after purchase of solar
You really don't have to change the element. The standard 4500W 240V one works good, but I have also tested 2000W 120V elements with only 500W of panels and 1500W 120V elements with up to 750W of panels, those 120V elements are sometimes on smaller tanks. The wattage you will want to use is up to you depending on your hot water use of course. The element you use is important and this info is at the manufacturers site.
This seems like a great idea! Have you compared 1. A system with a matched resistance water heater element without your controller and 2. A system with the stock water heater element with your controller to see how much it buys us? That will make it easier to justify. Even though not having to change the element is already a plus.
pv direct without battery? yes it is possible if you like to use candles at night and are happy to stop running computers and cooking etc when a cloud comes or at night.
The water in the tank is a battery so you are still storing energy. What we need is better batteries that last a long time, like the latest tech, Lithium Titanium Oxide (LTO). I have some of them and they are great! They are predicted to last at least 25 years or more, no one knows yet. I guess you could run your TV from the heat in a big tank, but it's still a battery.
OK so you've got one nice battery for your hot water but why don't you get a bigger battery to add to the existing battery and use Evacuated Tubes and get rid of that $4 a month for hot water all together.
No battery is used in this system. The water in the tank IS the "battery" and it's storing energy as heat. This actually takes the load off of your inverter system so you can use it for other things. E775 could size the upper element to be compatible with his inverter system to use that in the few cases it needs to come on, but some of those cases might be dark cloudy days so the grid might be needed anyway. I don't think the $4 a month bothers him enough to mess with it. He does have higher than normal use for his hot water at that location.
You will get about 35% overall efficiency and it is an absolutely horrible idea. The amps from a panel are relatively constant for a given light intensity. However a fixed resistance at moderate light levels can drop the voltage 70%. You only get two hours of good sun a day. What you think is sunny, really isn't. The rest of the time the panels don't put out much, but it is cumulative over time. I see my 1.2KW of panels sometimes only producing 60W. I have a similar system, but besides hot water I get refrigeration and everything else with the same panels.
I have a disdain for batteries. My system only has a car battery and I live much better than many off grid. I avoid using an inverter for anything that can be powered directly. Have a dishwasher and power the heater element off the PV DC buss. It is not a system that others can duplicate.
Engineer775 according to my understanding thermal direct solar is more efficient than electrical is it not!? since photovoltaic cells do not use the full spectrum to create electrical current. I know for a fact it with a thermal director panel 80 cm by 160 cm I can get 10 teenagers showers a day, maybe more I'm not sure how much we can get out of it. There are other benefits to Thermal direct for example it is EMP proof by Nature. in case of a grid down situation it can be repaired with relative ease if necessary unlike photovoltaic panels. and my country they are cheaper and widely used . since I've watched your channel for several years now I do not understand why you would not use a heat pump instead of resistive elements as it is more efficient to to move thermal energy then to create it from electricity.
The price of PV at 50c/W or less has made this method the better choice. A heat pump is a mechanical device and costs you more than this device and some panels. Most people will do really well with just 3 X 300W of panels and without a lot of piping changes to put in a heat pump (as a add on), you can use the existing tank as is with this. Did you look up solar direct heat pumps? How much do they cost? Do they even exist? Will you need batteries and an inverter? When you do this stuff you have got to think about all the factors. See where E775 put his panels in that good spot? How are you going to get pipes out there to your thermal panels without a lot of heat loss? What about winter performance or freezing problems?
Engineer775 the reason that I prefer solar thermal is that I can get the panels for roughly 50 dollars (in Israel) and the standard water heaters are designed to work with them with no pumps only thermosiphon and connecting of hoses. (which means I can have basically any construction worker do the installation for me.) and in addition PV panels are less efficient in Heath and solar thermal is more efficient. And in my area it only freezes once every 2 or 3 years. I understand why the setup makes sense for you.
We explored thermal solar with our builder. Bob Ramlow wrote a detailed book about direct thermal in cold climates (Bob lives in Wisconsin, USA with his direct thermal house, and his book is "Solar Water Heating"). Basically it is still doable but the cost factor has become problematic, like others said above. Martin Holladay wrote an excellent article about the cost factors over on GBA: www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/solar-thermal-really-really-dead Colder climates (meaning IECC zone 5 and above since you're international but for US it's HUD zone 3 or I prefer to use USDA zone 5 and above) b/c we have to use an antifreeze (glycol) and pumps to move it. So count yourself lucky to be able to use direct. Also, higher latitudes (>48deg) will have problems when winter solstice hits with the ~6hrs of usable solar radiation. Not much light and cold temps make for less than ideal location for direct thermal. You could tell us to make to the Middle East but not everyone has that option -- or wants to :)
If you are interested in a kit, here is the link! www.practicalpreppers.com/hot-water-solutions/hot-water-diy-kit-detail-view
May 14th 2019 your link is dead
Just wondering: pv direct for all appliances as a goal or just water heating?
No longer for sale?
Any updated link ?
Link no longer works
This excites me! I'm currently running an 18 KW Rheem on demand water heater. It's just me and I use less than 1,000 Gallons per month total (hot and cold). The Rheem puts me way ahead of running a traditional hot water heater all the time. The amortization on this system would be forever for me but I'm still excited to investigate the possibility of using this. I didn't realize I had missed any of your videos. I'm off to find the installation video. Thank you for all the great information you put out there.
This is one of best DIY projects of the year. 5 stars!
Very interesting. Going strait to the tank element and avoiding the energy usage of larger inverters is a great idea I have pondered in the past. Thanks for sharing Scott.
It's like adding batteries to your system, the tank is charged and discharged every day (heat) but without adding more power capabilities to your inverter system, which makes building a off grid system cheaper. One less load to worry about. And hot water is the #2 power sucker, #1 is A/C.
Absolutely, great idea!
i'm not sold on this device. You don't really need a thermostat do we? With the wattages we would be adding to the system and the safety's built in to the water heater. I see no reason to run this device though the t-stat when I can hook my panels direct to the element. I may be wrong and I hope someone has more info.
Especially after watching some of your videos, I'm thinking of doing this as on our farm. Part of my testing phase would be to see if I can use solar to supplement our electric hot water heater on our family dairy farm. I've got an extra water heater, so I was thinking I could plumb it in series, let solar "preheat" a 50 gallon tank before it hits our 120 gallon tank.
Yes, it sounds like a lot of hot water, but for our operations, we need quite a bit of hot water for a relatively short duration.
you will need to use back up batteries for a off grid home only because of bad weather and nights when you need power. like the video great info
Neat and clean, I like! I’m curious how this compares to tying into an existing PV system. I was planning a low voltage element on a heat pump water heater in the lower position but arcing of the thermostat was not something I was aware of. I suspect that mounting the controller/heat sink as an adjunct to the heat scavenging of the heat pump would appropriate.
I've recently install a 900 watt system with this board. I used three panels culled from my grid tie system. the panels had some minor flaws but were free. I pole mounted using a parking lot light pole
that I shortened 6 ft. So i had less than $400 in the entire project. Thats a 10 month payback.
I leave the grid element off an have plenty of hot water in current situation. Your mileage may vary.
The system has usually cut off by noon so I'm pondering what to do with the unused power.
Probably will change t'stat to switching type (like used on upper element) and feed a small space heater
in the winter to add a few btu's to the living space. I'm totally satisfied with this setup.
A shower always feels better with free hot water. Don't listen to all of these second guessers. It has done exactly what e775 said it would do!
Scott - great work. I’d be curious to know how it performs after a year, though. Surely it’s going to be problematic after a string of overcast, cold days? That seems too obvious,so surely I’m missing something!
I think that is why the top element is grid connected ;0) ..... That top element being used for a short time is where the $4/ month comes from! Unless I got it wrong....
You have it right Dave.
Great update..how about links for the digital voltmeter u used for the grid element?
And, unlike traditional solar hot water, you don't have to worry about freezing temps.
exactly! This works great in Alaska!
Or overheating
Simple way to do it. No pumps etc.
I don't think you can get any simpler.
A 10 min shower uses 1 x 250W panel of energy per day. So 1 person = 1 panel. Would be nice if you could explain some of the math on costs vs. payback. Impressive low cost solar panel mounts that I will start recommending to people.
What's more impressive than $3 ground mounts is $3 to heat your water per month. I did state that the elements are disconnected. 2 elements can and do run at the same time with this set up because they are fed independently. I did say they were disconnected from each other. right? I make 6-8 kWh a day with this setup or 20k BTUs -27k BTUs.
Thanks for the update and I want to do this but solar only. In fact I want to do straight solar thermal but what you did was/is a great system.
Glenn Holcomb I have added hot water and electric over to an area we are going to turn into laundry, bath and water heater. So, now I will be doing an electric water heater and the solar addition is a possibility. Thanks for the reminder.
Great hearing your review of this device. I picked one up about 6 months ago, but haven’t installed it yet. Will probably hook it up in another month or so. Thanks for sharing this.
Put it in! It works great!
Can you give me a place to find this unit? I cannot find it anywhere.
Thank you.
I am intrigued!! Nice setup, definitely something to make you go hhhmmmmmmm!
Scott - Curious to see if you use your wood boiler in the warm months now that you heat water with PV?
Oh I love this setup
Hi. Can u explain what the tank booster arrangement u r using looks like and a link if possible. Thx. Great project.
I found your channel about 3 months ago and wow!!!! I love the outside of the box thinking you do!! What a cool project!!! Have you ever thought of using this for radiant heat floor and a recerp pump? This is awesome hopefully it works for my system, I’m also wondering about using underground radiant heat in showers and using in the house?? Will that work, keep bringing these videos rolling
Will this work for a dump load directly off my 48v bank? Was thinking of triggering a relay for 1hr at a time on full batterys?
Great video and setup. I would love to do that. I am going to be moving to the west coast of Canada and would like to use more renewable energy. I would be very interested in doing the single element or possibly even the double element version. I have enjoyed a few of your videos and look forward to learning more about solar direct and battery systems. Thanks, Mohamed
are the panels connected paralel are serie ??
Any way to add this to a gas hot water heater?
Add an electric pre-heater and takes it's output into the gas heater cold in.
The Camco 11774 is an additional thin heating element that can be placed into a tank with any port. It is 8 inches long and is rated 635W at 120V. Do not confuse this with 11674 which is shorter at 6 1/2 inches and 425W. Both elements can be found less than $20. These come with a threaded brass adapter with ferule seal. Installation can be seen by watching the complete kit 11673 hybrid heater video. A threaded collar with a sacrificial anode is also available. I've seen these installed in the lower drain. This would allow some supplemental heating. Standard elements are too big to get thru a 3/4 inch hole.
How can this be MPPT without a transformer (inductor) ?
Question : Would I run a Tankless Water Heater (110v) off of the the main controller or could I use the one demonstrated in this video ?
Doubt it. There are no digital controls on an electric water heater, therefore it is very flexible for projects like this. But how about preheating a tanked heater upstream of your tankless?
I like how you do that that should be something very interesting for the hot water heater we have here I live in Florida though all that in a 4 bedroom house on an acre of land I want to get the AC to be able to run off solar I've heard about it in Arizona they're doing that I have a big Barnes facing in the South with the Sun comes over evenly... very interesting where did you get your solar panels from?..
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Have a question, you said the solar heating is not running all day. Can you design a relay setup that would allow heating 2 water tanks? The main tank is the priority. When the main tank is up to temp and no longer taking power, then it switches power to a second (Pre-Heat) tank. If the main tank calls for more heat then it switches power back to the main. This would allow cold water to be preheated when there is extra power that the main does not need. I would be interested in a package that could support this... Summerville, SC.
Can you add a second one to the top element? Are there any drawbacks to this?
Should get the heat going down the shower drain to pre heat the cold water going into your water heater.
Also, I've always thought it would be cool to build a shower in a closed loop. As you shower, filter the drain water, add a little heat to get it back to full temp and use the same hot water the hole shower. Like a 3 gal system.
If everyone took showers one after the other, you would heat the water once then just add heat to keep it hot.
I bet filtering shower water is easier than filtering drinking water.
do you have any waste water recovery to peheat your water or save heat for winter heating?
I live in the Netherlands. We have electric water heaters that use 230Volt electric elements. Will this controller work on this to, or is it only working for the 110 Volt heating elements that you use in your country?
Anyone?
Almost all water heaters in the US are 240V. as in your country. Power changes with the square of the voltage. If panels are half that voltage, the power will be 1/4 of the elements rating. This is offset by the system running almost all daylight hours. Fortunately, I have access to 2000W 120V heating elements and I can run my system off 60V with ease using whatever extra power is not needed by the batteries as low as 5W or as high as 500W.
@@opera5714 okay.... That's a answer that I can use. Thank you very much!
@@opera5714 well...glad to see that you got the math exactly right; with your 60 volts, then 500 watts is the maximum; but i still see lots of interneters around here that can't apply ohms law; well...
Will this work on a 2000watt (110v) 20 gallon tank? And what is the max wattage you can put on it?
Can this work as a pre-heating tank before it goes to a propane on demand heater?
This is a cool idea, however, I don't see any warranty option. What happens if the unit fails or doesn't operate correctly?
I sent this same question to both Scott and Techluck twice in the past year and never got a response. That should tell you right there they don't care about customers.
I have a Outback Radian 8K system on my house. Could I use the solar panels on my roof (30) to run the unit?
Your link no longer takes me to the Techluk controller. I understand it may not be available right now but will you have it in the future. Any other options similar to this ?
I would be interested in the code for the displays, if available?
I'm pondering hooking up solar direct to my lower element. Bypassing the T-stat. I'm going to regulate the heat the element produces during the day by adding/removing solar panels. I have 5 elements that differ in wattage and 3 excel sheets of info on these elements. I'm not sure I even need this device. What advice can you give?
What is the energy monitoring box that you have attached to your water heater? Shown at 7:21.
www.ebay.com/itm/271952136069 $12.98 ea.
Thanks! That's a steal at that price
It is, I bought 3 and put them in pvc boxes to monitor a variety of things
Hi. Have u considered adding a meter discharge as this one on the AC feed from the MPPT controller before the bottom element? Could this then track the energy produced by the system and provided to the tank?
I love your pv direct approach but how would this fare in West Michigan? Terrible for solar from what I've heard.
Better than paying the power company ALL the time. Even SC (E775) has weather, it's a planet wide type of thing. You can keep paying the power company while you wait for a Star Trek style weather modification system, or dedicate 4 panels like E775 did with a grid back up on the top element and take a big chunk out of your power bill.
Have any suggestions or comments toward natural gas type water heaters ?
What's the controller? Your website links don't appear to be working
Great Vid !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will it work in Europe on our 230v heaters?
Well that's only 10 volts different from our 240. You have to ask manufacturer I guess
are the pv panels only used for hot water? if so, why not hook them up direct? thats a pricey controller. thanks. i enjoy your vidios.
Cool. Will it devert power back to batterys or charge controler when water it at set limit?
The whole point of this is that the tank is the battery. You want to store every bit of thermal energy you can. There is nothing left over.
Let the temperature get as high as possible in tank, use tempering valve on tank or each faucet to take it down to 120 so there is no extra to use.
The link on your site called: "Ask a question about this product" does not work. It gives a not found error. I'm trying to find out how many panels do I need for my water heater that has 4500 watt elements.
Hello, I've just found a 106gal. Solar heater, that I want to use with solar panels, will this system work ?? I want ALL off grid.
I am going go try this at my house for our home use. However, this got me thinking, Can this system be set up to warm a 10,000 gallon pool to extend the usable season?
I purchased a heat exchanger from our local boiler supplier. Kids love to swim at Christmas...
Pretty cool. Thanks!
I went to the link for the controller but couldn't find the input and output specs could you please help with this, thanks
Your pages not found.. are you still around?
What would be a package cost for everything from the panels all the way to the hot water heater? (Not including ground mount system)
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Why do you need the charge controller? Since this isn't a regular battery, you don't have to worry about over current or voltage. You would want the thermostat, but I don't understand the charge controller.
Solar panels have a power point voltage and dropping below that loses a lot of power. Power is a function of the square of the voltage so a drop in voltage has significant effect on power.. A fixel load is disastrous on power as light levels decrease. For less than two hours a day, a controller doesn't matter. Standard mechanical thermostats get destroyed by high voltage DC unless they are pulsed.
what would you need to do this at home do you have a list of materials etc. how many solar panels ?
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So the controller is AC or Dc? Why not use a Brat Charge controller ?
How many watts of solar panels can this Solar Direct Hot Water Controller hold?
Do you still sell the controller? "Page not found" when I click the link
link is Dead can you help
775 the links seem to no longer work. Help a guy out.
For the last 2 tears I have been running 3- 235 watt pv panels hook up direct to my electric water heater element with no problems
I'd like to hear about your experience. I've done extensive testing with PV hot water for years and what you say is pretty hard to do. Sure must be sunny and a small tank.
opera maybe is more of a preheating/excess dump load setup. Which still gives some benefit
are you selling this controller seperately scott ?
cant seem to find in your shop
“Notice: MPPT Hot Water Controller No Longer Available”
that module cost 300 bucks its basically a small inverter,for 30 bucks you can change the element to dc
How can i get one?
Hi scott, I have 1,ooo watts of 12 volt solar panels. I have them paralleled to 48 volts. I have them tied directly to a 48 volt dc hot water heater. It is December in North Carolina but I am only getting 38 volts and 10.8 amps measured by my volt meter. That equates to 410 watts at the heater element. So, after a 6 hour sunny day, the temp in my hot water heater only goes up 10 degrees. It makes no sense. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, Mike
You need to match the resistance of the panels to the resistance of the heater element. www.davidpoz.com/ has a sweet excel calculator for this. It seems like you're pretty close though since its december and 410 watts in a 1000w array is about right give or take. How many gallons is your tank?
Michael Minga if all panels aren’t not identical the four will be limited by the lowest output panel, also check ohms, without mppt your panels will be operating at a dead short thus never building amperage, remember amps don’t increase when putting panels in series
How is this a MPPT controller when only one string of PV panels are connected to this unit?
This cannot be MPPT controller. There is no buck converter (transformer/inductor). It can only be PWM which can work but should only cost around $50.
I love this
Would this run an indoor heating system..?
Infloor... damm autocorrect
love the channel
Thank you!
I am sure you have considered hot water collectors. You are too smart for not having analyzed this option, and I, for one, would be greatly interested to hear what you have to say on this. How could this option be used together with the MultiAqua chiller, for instance?
As I am sure you know, they are very popular in Europe (known as Combi and Combi+). Combi is solar hot water from the sun for the faucets. Combi+ is solar hot water for faucets and comfort heat.
You may save money by installing hot water collectors for hot water and your monthly cost of operation will drop from ~$4 per month to $0 (free).
You, also, save money two ways:
1- install less PV panels
2- install less batteries
You save by requiring less energy for hot water production since you replace a portion of thermal energy with direct solar thermal energy. This reduces required PV energy by using it mostly for electrical appliances.
Solar hot water collectors are around ~75% efficient compared to ~20 efficiency for PV panels, and a “good” panel can produce daily on average around 7kWh per day.
This option is simpler & cheaper then direct thermal solar hot water. With this option you simply add a small amount of solar to the lower heater element. Not too much or your not harnessing what the panels have to offer not too little or you won't heat the tank from the solar panels. You mentioned batteries? This method doesn't use batteries at all it only heats the lower element during the daytime. Adding a $5,000 thermal solar hot water system just to save $4 a month simply does not make sense when compared to this $600 option
No pumps no pipes no drain back no pressure reservoirs no freezing temperatures to worry about just run a couple wires from the solar panel is so much easier than all of that. And the cost of solar is so cheap now
will this unit work in the uk with 3kw ac 240v immersion heater?
dave swords this 50 gal tank is most likely 240V, with a 4500/5000 watt heating element. So from that perspective yes. He only said he intentionally blew one circuit board but not what overload voltage/wattage was involved. I’m also curious if each element is rated at 4500 watts or if that’s split over two elements. If it’s split, your 3kw might be too much
how much for this mppt controller? where can i order im in bc canada.
does it have to be this charge controller to do this ?can i use other mppt charge controllers?
This cannot be MPPT controller. There is no buck converter (transformer/inductor). It can only be PWM which can work but should only cost around $50.
I thought you got your hot water from your outdoor wood boiler?
For 13 yrs I have made hot water off my boiler and will continue to do so in the winter but this setup saves me having to process a lot of wood! I also have the hydronic chiller connected to my home which takes rejected heat from my home and recovers into my water heater. So my sources for hot water into one tank are ...this controller, a wood boiler, a Heat recovery chiller, a 8k hybrid solar system can run the top element and then the Grid if I have too.
be good to have a meter that stays on so you don't have to push it on to see tank temperature
Seems like one could switch the element with a $15 Dc heavy duty relay rather than a $200 circuit board. No?
No and only because you missed the most important part the MPPT part of the controller.
@@engineer775 Can you explain what exactly the MPPT does that improves on the use of "Wild" wattage coming out of the panels and putting energy into the water?
Nice Scott
Thank you sir.
I can appreciate a PV-direct system, but I'm more of a SOLAR-direct kinda bear. Black trash can sitting out on a sunny driveway, in other words. My physical challenges prevent my installing a gravity feed anything, but I can haul hot water from the driveway. So no, its not ideal or even all that efficient, but it works for me where I live. (NE of LA, Calif)
At least you have got a way that works for you. Most folks do not have a hot water plan.
I'm totally off grid with regular appliances. why do you make it sound so complicated?
What's complicated? I'm doing this without batteries, charge controllers or inverters. How are you making hot water?
Im sorry my friend..I don't know much about electricity but I'm a solar energy proponent... let me ask you a question... how you compare this with a DC solar tank ... it's basically the same thing or not?
What do you mean by a DC solar tank?
@@engineer775 thanks for responding... there's a device in the market that acts like a termostato (??)...but receives the power from the panels directly... basically DC device
@@engineer775 ...my English is rather limited,I apologise... basically what I want to know is if that device that you show require any additional inverter to work or if it can receive DC power from the panels?
What's total cost if you dont have any solar.
~ $1500.00
Thanks for this information. This is where I would be starting from. This wouldn't be a good financial decision for my particular situation but FREE every month sure does sound good.
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You pay 13c a kw???. Grumbles in Australian.
I don't understand how this works, something doesn't make sense to me here. Does the controller regulate over temp? What happens on a sunny day when you're not using hot water, what regulates the temp? You have one mosfet for 1200W, what's the current that mosfet dissipates? Doesn't that depends on the voltage someone's modules are developing? If all a PV is developing is 24V (VMPP) that means the mosfet is absorbing 50 amps!
Do you have a schematic of the wiring system?
On another note, you can't run a system without batteries, batteries absorb starting loads like fridges, washing machines, freezers, well pumps, etc. The overhead you would need to run direct PV would be massive and then there's nights with no PV. Without back up you can't have lighting, TV or the pump that builds water pressure. You could put a holding tank up in the air 30 or 40 feet but what happen in cold climates, does the water in that tank freeze? There's a reason why we use back up power.
My idea may work better. (Stack Two smaller tanks on top each other with a transfer pipe. Bottom tank solar, top tank mains). The lower solar tank will heat both tanks at the same time, cause heat rises! It's like double energy storage
Is heat pump preheat worth it?
Heat pump water heaters are great in the right locations. Taking heat from your home that you were going to waste anyway or have to use energy to overcome is great to move into making hot water.
Good video.
Have you ever installed the Stiebel Eltron heat pump water heaters?
I've been looking at those and they said that for every watt the fan and compressor use, it produces 3 to 5 watts of hot water. I've been thinking that here in the south, taking hot air inside your home, like the kitchen area with a stove oven and refrigerator, and putting it into the water heater, and the fan push COLD air out, just makes a lot of sense to help with AC as well as making hot water. Especially here in Louisiana.
If a few solar panels can run some thing like the water heater below, I think that would really be a win win.
Here's what I'm looking at.
www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/products/accelera-heat-pump-water-heaters
I copied a small part of what they said below about the one watt and 3 to 5 watts.
These are Stiebel Eltron heat pump water heaters.
It has always been obvious to us that a heat pump water heater ought to make hot water with the heat pump, and not with a back-up element. This simple solution seems to have escaped others. Yet it has made our heat pump water heater the largest seller in Europe for over 35 years.
Until recently, the best “high efficiency” water heaters could only approach 100% efficiency. Heat pump water heater technology redefines water heater efficiency, producing efficiencies more than 3 times that. For every watt an Accelera’s compressor and fan uses, the equivalent of 3-5 watts of hot water are generated.
In warm climates, an Accelera® is placed either in the garage, where it uses the heat from the outside air to make hot water, or inside the house, where it helps with the air conditioning load. In cooler climates, the unit is typically placed in the basement where it also acts as a dehumidifier. You get hot water at a discount plus a drier basement as well.
Keep up the great work.
They are the Cadillac of heat pump water heaters! I wanted to install one but it was too pricey for the customer.
What do they go for, and what kind of power, in solar panels, would it take to operate an 80 gallon model?
70% humidity is a bit of slickery. I have a HPWH and it costs about 47 cents a day to run.
One more thing you do not want to hook pv through the t stat go to element direct you will burn up the t stat
Ray, yes many of us have connected PV panels directly to elements. Like you said they are just resistors. However with this board you can not only use the OEM element and thermostat but it keeps the voltage high and the overall process efficient. Its like trying to charge a battery with a panel direct compared to using an MPPT charger. This lil controller takes care of both issues nicely.
Scott, I assume at night you are running off stored hot water? (You also mention having a heat recovery unit feeding that heat exchanger loop - how much heat is that putting in?)
Could you use this to source heat for a small hydronic floor heat setup do you think?
I am only using the controller with no help from the chiller or wood boiler. THe grid will kick in when the weather is bad and there is heavy use. Yes, running off of stored hot water. It keeps up with our home use but to heat it would take a lot more solar and more controllers/tanks.
But the element only cost $10 and when you live with no access to electronics or technology this is a good option if it takes all day to make hot water so what it's free after purchase of solar
That's fine. Elements here are $8.00 . The controller is sent all over the world. just sayin. If you can get panels you can get controllers.
You really don't have to change the element. The standard 4500W 240V one works good, but I have also tested 2000W 120V elements with only 500W of panels and 1500W 120V elements with up to 750W of panels, those 120V elements are sometimes on smaller tanks. The wattage you will want to use is up to you depending on your hot water use of course. The element you use is important and this info is at the manufacturers site.
I have instant hot water (tankless) how would you recommend doing solar for that?
You would need a preheat tank, then to the instant hot water tank
Wrap that tank with a good water heater blanket...
This seems like a great idea! Have you compared
1. A system with a matched resistance water heater element without your controller and
2. A system with the stock water heater element with your controller
to see how much it buys us? That will make it easier to justify. Even though not having to change the element is already a plus.
Anything over 2 min is a glamor shower
You’re a rock star.
pv direct without battery?
yes it is possible if you like to use candles at night and are happy to stop running computers and cooking etc when a cloud comes or at night.
The water in the tank is a battery so you are still storing energy. What we need is better batteries that last a long time, like the latest tech, Lithium Titanium Oxide (LTO). I have some of them and they are great! They are predicted to last at least 25 years or more, no one knows yet. I guess you could run your TV from the heat in a big tank, but it's still a battery.
OK so you've got one nice battery for your hot water but why don't you get a bigger battery to add to the existing battery and use Evacuated Tubes and get rid of that $4 a month for hot water all together.
No battery is used in this system. The water in the tank IS the "battery" and it's storing energy as heat. This actually takes the load off of your inverter system so you can use it for other things. E775 could size the upper element to be compatible with his inverter system to use that in the few cases it needs to come on, but some of those cases might be dark cloudy days so the grid might be needed anyway. I don't think the $4 a month bothers him enough to mess with it. He does have higher than normal use for his hot water at that location.
You don't need that controller. You can hook pv directly to the element.
$4/month + the system
You will get about 35% overall efficiency and it is an absolutely horrible idea. The amps from a panel are relatively constant for a given light intensity. However a fixed resistance at moderate light levels can drop the voltage 70%. You only get two hours of good sun a day. What you think is sunny, really isn't. The rest of the time the panels don't put out much, but it is cumulative over time. I see my 1.2KW of panels sometimes only producing 60W. I have a similar system, but besides hot water I get refrigeration and everything else with the same panels.
opera I use my batteries and inverter myself. 3000w 240vac is 750w120vac. Takes a bit longer but works well.
I have a disdain for batteries. My system only has a car battery and I live much better than many off grid. I avoid using an inverter for anything that can be powered directly. Have a dishwasher and power the heater element off the PV DC buss. It is not a system that others can duplicate.
I have a vid about my system
If you drop the price of the boards so they're the right price point you'll get heaps more sales and therefore make more money 😉
Also this m.th-cam.com/video/c9-Ja74mCAo/w-d-xo.html a mppt direct house heating.
Kilowatt HOURS
Thank you Charlie. Kilowatt HOURS. Kilowatt HOURS. Kilowatt HOURS. smh.
260$ seems pretty high for this "simple" device...
Shit loads more now for overseas buyers just needing the regulator..
Agreed, no reason to be that high, had they been reasonable many more would be sold and profits would be higher.
Engineer775 according to my understanding thermal direct solar is more efficient than electrical is it not!? since photovoltaic cells do not use the full spectrum to create electrical current.
I know for a fact it with a thermal director panel 80 cm by 160 cm I can get 10 teenagers showers a day, maybe more I'm not sure how much we can get out of it.
There are other benefits to Thermal direct for example it is EMP proof by Nature. in case of a grid down situation it can be repaired with relative ease if necessary unlike photovoltaic panels. and my country they are cheaper and widely used .
since I've watched your channel for several years now I do not understand why you would not use a heat pump instead of resistive elements as it is more efficient to to move thermal energy then to create it from electricity.
The price of PV at 50c/W or less has made this method the better choice. A heat pump is a mechanical device and costs you more than this device and some panels. Most people will do really well with just 3 X 300W of panels and without a lot of piping changes to put in a heat pump (as a add on), you can use the existing tank as is with this. Did you look up solar direct heat pumps? How much do they cost? Do they even exist? Will you need batteries and an inverter? When you do this stuff you have got to think about all the factors. See where E775 put his panels in that good spot? How are you going to get pipes out there to your thermal panels without a lot of heat loss? What about winter performance or freezing problems?
You have me on the EMP proof... maybe - you still need to pump water in most thermal installs. Ill take PV direct any day all day but that is my goal.
Engineer775 the reason that I prefer solar thermal is that I can get the panels for roughly 50 dollars (in Israel) and the standard water heaters are designed to work with them with no pumps only thermosiphon and connecting of hoses. (which means I can have basically any construction worker do the installation for me.)
and in addition PV panels are less efficient in Heath and solar thermal is more efficient. And in my area it only freezes once every 2 or 3 years.
I understand why the setup makes sense for you.
We explored thermal solar with our builder. Bob Ramlow wrote a detailed book about direct thermal in cold climates (Bob lives in Wisconsin, USA with his direct thermal house, and his book is "Solar Water Heating"). Basically it is still doable but the cost factor has become problematic, like others said above. Martin Holladay wrote an excellent article about the cost factors over on GBA: www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/solar-thermal-really-really-dead
Colder climates (meaning IECC zone 5 and above since you're international but for US it's HUD zone 3 or I prefer to use USDA zone 5 and above) b/c we have to use an antifreeze (glycol) and pumps to move it. So count yourself lucky to be able to use direct. Also, higher latitudes (>48deg) will have problems when winter solstice hits with the ~6hrs of usable solar radiation. Not much light and cold temps make for less than ideal location for direct thermal. You could tell us to make to the Middle East but not everyone has that option -- or wants to :)
The Best Solar Water Heater Would Be A Thermo-Syphon Type sites.google.com/site/solarsunwater/home/