FIRST TIME USING A NAMED WEAPON! | The Difference Between Add & True Phys Damage | Dark and Darker
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:17 Upgrading To +11 Additional Physical Damage
2:54 Testing The Upgrade
3:25 Buying +11 True Physical Damage Bonus Gear
5:50 Testing True
6:12 PVP
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To clear it up once and for all, here is the differences between the different damages in dark and darker, with the calculation under. (from the dark and darker wiki)
Hit Location Multiplier: Headshot, Limbshot, Chestshot
Impact Zone Bonus: Weak/neutral spots on weapon (Hilt, blade)
Additional damage:
+/- Scales with Hit Location Multiplier
- Does not scale with power bonus
- Reduced by PDR
= Is only better if the enemy you are fighting has low armor, and you hit mostly head shots.
True damage:
+ Unaffected by PDR
- Does not scale with power bonus
= Is better if you are fighting a high PDR enemy.
Weapon damage from gear (And divine strike):
+ Scales with power bonus
+/- Does not scale with certain bonuses, like Combo Attack (-) and Impact Zone Bonus (+)
- Reduced by PDR
= Great overall, difficult to get (Does only appear on weapon rolls)
Weapon damage from buffs (Slayer, sword mastery):
+ Scales with power bonus
+/- Scale with certain bonuses, like Combo Attack (+) and Impact Zone Bonus (-)
- Reduced by PDR
= Great overall, difficulty of acquisition essentially based on class perks
The reason for the results we saw in the video, were due to the test being headshots, which True damage is not affected by, not because of the power bonus
(
(
(
+ (Base Damage + "Buff" Weapon Damage) * Combo Bonus * Impact Zone Bonus
+ Gear "+N Weapon Damage"|"N Magical Damage"
+ Divine Strike Damage
)
* (1 + Power Bonus)
+ "Additional" Damage
)
* (Hit Location Multiplier)
* (1 - Damage Reduction * (1 - Penetration))
* (1 - Projectile Reduction)
)
* Projectile Falloff
+ True Damage
(darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Damage_Calculation)
what am I even reading bruh
leave it to IM to overcomplicate things I had no idea
% Damage Reduced = Target's Damage Reduction * (1 - Attacker's Pen)
im not sure this is true. looks like damage pen here is flat modifier, which means 20%pen against 20%pdr going to 0%pdr
@@DesparoArts I am inclined to agree, this is ripped from the wiki, but it looks wrong for sure. IM usually has additive percentages, but then again, it would be weird if your pen exceeded the PDR if it was additive, no?
Not only were the tests head shots only, but they were also on 0 armor dummies.
As a bard main I became very interested in true physical vs additional physical when farming bosses. Mose PvE has -22% physical damage reduction as a starting point. Against PvE is where the difference in these stats gets a bit crazy.
-22% PDR translates to 0 armor rating. Between 0 and -3 is 1% each. Between -3 and the minimum is 2% each. So shriek of Weakness takes mobs, like bosses from -22% to -78 or -79%
Like other comments pointed out, phys power bonus is calculated before additional physical damage, the extra damage comes from location modifiers and training dummies negative PDR.
So let's take +11 phys dmg * 1.5 for headshot damage, and * (1-PDR [PDR is -78% so -.78]) or *1.78. This comes out to about +30 (29.37) damage! It's +20 for classes without shriek of Weakness on PvE with negative pdr
All this to say stack additional phys damage to farm cave troll and cyclops. True damage is better for PvP which also makes additional phys damage gear cheaper in comparison.
19:50 thats so UNLUCKY BRO u jumping up high aggros a bat in another room and he flew above the railing only because u had highground. love the video man i was actually freaking out every time a fight was close and man that wizard fight had me on the edge of my seat i was saying over and over "TELL me he ends the video with the viola safely TELL ME" MAN great video man
bro he missed like 3 francisca axes on someone thats casting magic missile. he didnt deserve to win that fight anyway
he was dead regardless, that lightning strike woulda killed him without the bat's damage
So, just started the video, but the additional physical damage does NOT scale off of physical power bonus; neither does true damage. The difference between additional and true is that additional scales off of limb modifiers AND is affected by armor resistances AND is affected by attribute scaling modifiers. True is affected by neither limb modifiers nor armor resistance, BUT it is affected by attribute scaling modifiers. Neither Additional nor True scale off of physical power bonus.
For that matter, if you want a calc sheet, I have one that I can give you a copy of if you are interested in knowing what damage is going to be displayed on the dummy or any target if you know the opponents resistances/perks/skills.
Another reason that additional looks a lot more impressive on the dummy, is that the dummy's base damage reduction is -12%, which additional makes use of, and true does not.
@@animeototo2120 hey man can i get this damage calculation sheet?
Yup, add might look better on a target dummy but tbh true is better. They are both very good but if I had to choose it’s got to be true
I know it’s not complicated but it feels like too much LOL they need to explain it in their own game bc I had no idea of any of these things
20:00 no matter how many violas you bring, it always comes down to if you hit your axes or not xD welcome to range and ranger.
good one but he also could have just finished the wizard with viola while he had him pants down in the doorway
@@tloks8737no.. he stabbed the wall and got staggered allowing the mage to break distance forcing him to rely on landing one more ranged attack. He could have finished him in the door... in another world sure, but unfortunately we are living in the world where you must hit your axes xD
ur being contrarian just to be contrarian, miserable? Go outside. He would've died if he used viola, he also would've died if he used axes@@DimePwnz
@@firstnamelastname8790huh? Go outside? lol stop projecting on me lil bro. He DID use axes and he died. But he missed his axes, what I said is it comes down to if you HIT as in HIT HIT HIT your axes or not. which 100% would have made the difference as the wizard survived with 1 hp so 1 sneeze from an axe or any range and he dies... so like are you trying to prove you are slow or.. baiting? or just trying to do a ratio'd speed run?
@@DimePwnz HITTING THE WALL IS A SKILL ISSUE. THIS IS MELEE CLASSES WHEN ASKED TO EXPRESS SKILL
Just a heads up - ranged weapons have damage drop off depending on distance. So if you’re wanting to test damage difference with ranged weapons, you should do so from the same spot!
Good stuff man. You got some good runs off of that viola
Great video and glad to see it spark up a lot of conversation around damage modifiers.
Regarding your death... When you hear him prepping an electric spell you should assume it's lightning strike since it's solos... So it's a lot better to move left and throw Francesca axes over the middle part since he cant aim at the ground from his angle. Just food for thought. You're way better than me and i know it's 10x more difficult to think about these things in the heat of the moment, but hopefully internalizing these things can save you in the future. Cheers brother!
good stuff lorr.. I killed a rogue in similar fashion in the bat pyramid in crypts after I 3rd partied a brawl... looted the guy & barely noticed it was a viola, when I got that sucker in my inventory and en route to a static, boom, dialogue box pops up saying "Encountered an error, transporting you back into the tavern" I dont run weapon master slayer so I never got to to equip the damn thing. Glad you had some fun with it before the wipe.
additional damage have no benefits from power bonus, u can check this on wiki, the only difference between this that add dmg have hit location multiplayer (head/chest/arm) and affected by armor rating, true dmg ignores armor
YOOOO I was that wizard you killed on your second game with viola. you really caught me with my pants down there trying to fight skelechamp. the champ also juggled and hit me before you got the windlass shot off on me. ggs brother
I was that wizard at 9:55 at I had inspected you in the lobby, in my mind i was telling myself you are the only person i didnt want to cross because I'd never seen an artifact ingame before till then. 10/10 did scare tf outta me so i ended up taking static, but thats dope that you got your hands on an artifact 🔥
true damage is adding a point of flat damage that doesnt scale but completely negates pdr and also is the same no matter where they are hit so if you have a kit with 5 true and you hit an arm shot or a leg shot that only normally does say 15 damage after factoring in their pdr you would actually do 20 damage because of the 5 flat true damage that isnt falling off due to pdr or a limb shot. i know this for 2 reasons. A. its definition on the wiki is pretty explanatory. i know the wiki can be out dated but anything like enchantments that hasnt been messed with much are pretty accurate. B. one of the top rangers builds is to stack 11 true damage and run a surv bow with the leg shot slow, triple shot, and he just shoots them in the legs until they die.
The biggest benefit to true damage is that it bypasses defenses. It they have a 40% damage reduction, true damage will still do 100% damage. This is not reflected on the dummy as it has no armor.
you also have to add in the fact that add damage is effected by pdr, so against high pdr classes you want true damage over add damage
Hope you enjoyed my kit lol. That windless took me from 150 hp to 70 i panicked lmao. Didn’t even bring arrows for my cross bows. XD idk how you heard me too, I literally tip tooed to you. @thelorr
ADDITIONAL seems to be the way to go versus TRUE
My justification is the head damage modifier. If your playing sweaty PvP I would argue whoever lands the most head shots the quickest is usually the victor (this may not apply to casters but neither would phy add or phy true in that case).
Otherwise it seems you’re describing two lower skilled players who can’t manage head shots where you would get more damage from True. And therefore using True damage is almost like planning on not going for headshots and seems like you planning for failure.
I understand the argument for PDR builds in regards to building True. However, it also depends on if your doing Trios vs Solo and your need for movement speed. While PDR is a counter to Add Phy you would also probably have a movement speed advantage and can play around it. And even with PDR you can still get the head shot bonus damage which is easier to get on a slower target.
Honestly I think the best determining factor is price. If you can get True for half the price then it’s better in that context. But on a stat value bases Add phy is better for securing PvP kills.
And if you can’t land head shots then…. GIT GUD
you are pumping out content. Love it!
Known this for a long time. True damage ignores everything, its just flat damage that goes straight through regardless of where you hit, what you hit, who you hit...2 true phys will always apply 2 damage. additional damage scales with location modifiers (headshots for example) but is affected by PDR. lastly, neither are affected by phys power bonus. extremely simple.
Just ran my first named weapon about 5 mins ago. Lost it immediately to a bard using 3 named weapons. Couldn’t have gone better.
i also didnt know th difference between add and true great video thanks for demonstrating it
I love this guy, we learn together as we watch. The other skilled guys in the dark and darker community act like fucking snobs but you are awesome thelorr. I hope you make real cash money from this channel.
It’s difficult to abstract and simplify when there is so much going on. While I think there is justification for True vs Additional damage, there are some stats that seem too unnecessarily complicate things.
Like physical power vs physical % bonus. They both do the same thing, but objectively power is better as (it seems) to add 2% per point of power vs the high 3% power bonus roll. Unless there is scaling diminishing returns. With some weapons reaching 6 phy power and therefore 12% bonus.
But because of the ambiguity the % bonus (with a 3% being the best roll depending on item) it more sought after and more expensive because the % bonus is clear what it’s giving while people don’t bother to understand phy power or mag power.
Is this what Ironmace wants? The cool kids who understand stats and get all the good deals while the filthy casual Timmies get the expensive lower value gear cause lack of transparency and Big Number?
While I enjoy when developers obfuscate things (Darks souls games environment story building for example) there’s needs be a good purpose behind it. Even if I would be benefiting from the ambiguity.
Right now it seems they want to make a cool kid stat knower club or they are just copy/pasting stats from some DnD manual without much second thought.
Yet another good video! Yet another day of asking the recipe! Keep up the good videos! Love the sets you put together.
bro had the best weapon in game and throws knife at you!? well played, nice vid.
13:22 haha must use protection potion! Although in that fight yours ran out before the barb attacked you so you had him no problem anyways 😅❤
Thanks a ton dude!!!
When running a named weapon you can get a helm with 2 additional/true Magic DMG to scale the named magic DMG effect & the crystal ball will proc its magic DMG with the Viola effect as well making it the highest DMG dual wield for Viola
Very good tip I hope he reads it
Also how tf did this man just run a viola bro he could’ve sold it and made like 60k gold
He also used such a bad kit bro
@@este7705wipe is in like 4 days who cares
cause he has no gear fear, hes a chad for that.@@este7705
i think the nerves got the best of you there, that reverse was good asf just kept swinging to early for that final hit
I think he also didn't swing viola fast enough, though the wizard had an AMAZING duck. In a normal setup, swinging shortsword first makes sense, but with viola, you want to apply the 10% slow
You are such an amazing content creator. Thanks for putting in the gold to do the hard math for us.
Im glad I found your channel, you play the game just like how I like to play, but better.
when using viola you also want to work having some true truemagic so you get full damage output from physical and magical
really wish you would have tried this build with manasphere/cyclops eye as the magical dmg on it works on the viola :)
If you stack some magic power and maybe a couple true magi damage rolls, that viola will smack.
True = ignores all resistance
Additional = Bonus damage to Limbs.
Always stack true as it will “technically” reduce targets PDR/MDR if you want to really see the difference in the two.
Go on wizard and build only magi add
And then another kit with 11 true magi.
Test it out in a player it will do SIGNIFICANTLY more damage
Damn I’ve never seen someone so happy after dying. As always great video 10/10.
As many have explained true vs addi dmg difference is exclusively that addi dmg gets reduced by armor rating and gets a 50% dmg reduction on limb with a 50% increase on headshots.
Basically means if you can easily get headshots ( like bows or rapier and such)
AND u wanna focus killing the less tanky enemies then addi is better.
If you have a weapon thats harder to headshot (like daggers) or if you really wanna deal more dmg to the pdr players.
Then true is far better.
More dmg to pdr doesnt really matter for phys since u really should leave the pdr ppl to your magical dps.
I prefer addi on ranger and true on rogue for this reason,
If you wanna ignore the limb/headshot difference.
True dmg is more consistent.
crazy stuff my brother
FYI you can run a kit similar to this try and get as much max hp on all your pieces... especially using a named item. you can pretty easily get upwards of 160-170hp with the same action speed and power bonus if your spending 10-15k
I agree, I thought he was insane for only having 123HP lol.
with the viola i think you should have used a mana sphere as secondary as you are getting that +5 weapon damage and the +7 magical damage for the viola effect. you would have sacrificed some move speed tho
you also have to consider that PDR reduces the add phys damage compared to tjhe true damage, so against tanks its petter with true and against squishy classes its better add
True is more for PvP. Additional Phys will just be reduced by PDR/hit location on a lot of classes.
Just keep in mind. True is not affected by headshot bonus, and is not affected by PDR. So 11 true is always 11 dmg. No matter where you hit, or fall off dmg. this is why if you build a full dex/agi and true dmg build with a surv bow it can do a lot of dmg as a ranger.
However with fighter, true vs additional only really matters when in match ups against pdr vs non-pdr. vs pdr classes true is usually better, vs non-pdr classes/builds additional will outperform especially on headshots because additional scales headshot % but also will be lower in dmg if you hit limbs.
Haha made it in the video! Almost got ya there ;). Was having some fun trolling on the barb. Ggs brother.
Lorr you're getting really close to making amazing builds! I think now you just need to look at where things start falling off, with +11 additional magic is 1 weapon damage that important etc. Would stacking agility be good since it gives movespeed and a little bit of action speed or do you just want to get to 40 dex asap.
lol
not sure but I think viola also scales with your magical damage bonus stat.
Cool vid, still waiting on more of those live streams though.
COOL RUNS
The death to mage avoided with recurve
True damage is good on fast attacking classes because it ignores armor
kinda funny how you never notice your crossbow isnt reloaded
Using the short sword against the wizard instead of the viola got you killed I think. The slow woulda got him after, but good stuff as always
i thought it was, true doesnt add damage, it just converts 2 of your current damage to ignore armor
do you not like doing the auto equip for throwables? it helps alot when u get the hang out it
Tried it! I guess i need to get used to it!
@@thelorr yeah it's tough to get used to for sure especially when you've had a significant amount of time drag equipping
you need to test it on chest true dmg dose not gain headshot dmg multiplyer where as Additional damage will head shot multiply
So wholesome to see someone cheering to get their gear 😂
sick vid
Bro just realized you make music too. that's awesome. Love your content. Maybe we can collab on a track for DnD haha
True damage does not receive headshot bonus or less damage on limb shots and always does the same amount of damage even through armor. Additional damage does receive head shot bonus but also less damage hitting limbs and goes through armor but DOES NOT scale with physical power. + Weapon damage does scale with physical power. The reason why it seemed additional is better is because you were only hitting headshots on the test dummies and also the dummies have zero armor class which in this game means that they take extra damage like if you were naked in the game.
Also I love the videos, its sick that you got a viola
That windlass really makes them reconsider their decisions
love the no gear fear game play
Doesn’t true damage not get affected by armor because it’s true dmg
if viola provides magical demage... it is also possible to build with additional magical demage .. xd 11 add magic demage in eq xd ... probably xd
Ryan6 ... have explained the dmg system with numbers and how its work sooo dont need to try just to understand
Add phys and True phys dont stack with phys power bonus. True phys negates all multipliers such as pdr, dropoff, limb dmg. Add phys is applied after phys power but is before all other modifiers so it's affected by pdr and headshot bonus. Because it's affected by headshot bonus, that's why the dmg appeared higher, but bodyshot would be the same. This is pretty much dmg calculations: (((Weapon Damage * Impact Zone Bonus * Combo Bonus * (1 + Power Bonus)) + Additional Physical Damage) * (1 + Hit Location Bonus) * (1 - Damage Reduction) * (1 - Projectile Reduction)) + True Damage
The fighter, the most fair class in the game
Holy, that wiz slapped u. And he wasnt that geared even
He was
@@unckrow219that was me, i was geared but not THAT geared. that was one of my 'budget'ish sets, i just have max +dmg rolls and then move speed and some vigor. if i were geared i woulda had 130 hp and done a lot more damage
@@unckrow219 Told ya
@@PuntTheDog Wiz kinda slaps, i wish this game had servers where i have good ping
True negates all mdr and psr! While additional add basically weapon damage that can be negated
bro the dummy has negative pdr u have to remember that when comparing something with multiplier with the true phys
To check ur damage i'll aways recommend u to check on TAB because dummies have -22% pdr. After that u just need to calculate the enemy PDR and add the + true to it.
frost amulet gives 7 or 8 true and make it so bards can hit for 120
Short sword hitting as hard as a purple falchion on a mid kit
you can't see how good true damage is on test dummies that have negative pdr
at 14:17 did you really not take the purple frost amulet? thats why he was doing so much dmg to you, its worth a lot and for good reason the +3 true is insane
all wizards go for true magic damage. additional magic damage is for a budget build
I was gonna say, no way thats how additional works, true is just better for leg shots/high pdr
rockstar sh*t bringing it in right after
still, 3 hits with 11 true is 33 true damage. and thats just good math
true is better for faster hitting weapons like daggers and the opposite is true for additional phys dam.
I killed a Rogue with Viola and promptly traded it for Fulgor 😵
So, additional physical damage scales after your PDB. That's definite.
I ran some tests with my cousin and 1 for 1, Additional Physical Damage is better than physical power. Additional TRUE damage is better 1 for 1 to Additional Physical Damage because it hits for the same damage no matter where you hit on the body. So, it hits the head for the same damage 1 to 1 ads additional physical damage. Again, True isn't affected by PDB, it's calculated on top, like Additional Physical Damage.
So it goes 1) True Physical 2) Additional True Physical 3) Physical Power Bonus
This is our findings. I managed to spend less than 2k on an entire set and my 1 hit damage with a Falchion was about 156.
If you look for armour that doesn't have the base stay you need, you can find some real steals that stack Additional Physical and sometimes even Additional True Damage.
Please someone correct me if we're wrong but we're sure this is the case.
Hope that helps dude. Love your vids. Finally a streamer that doesn't do self love every 30 seconds live in stream.😂
Is actually your first time using a Named bro? You should start going to hell and doing Solo ghost king in HR, I got like 3 nameds from Skull keys and the Ghost king, Keep it up!
you do more damage to body and limbs and through pdr with true
Seeing you play till losing those items was kind of annoying but hey did you make more off the loot you obtained with the viola cloak or would you had made more if you simply sold them?
I wanted to use the viola and cloak since wipe is super close. It was fun!
Ah im still new to D &D how close is the next wipe? are they frequent?@@thelorr
True dmg is better against people with high pdr add phys gets 1.5 x dmg to head that is the only difference that matters
Not sure if this true: i think viola is insane with crystal ball bcause of the magical damage
I don’t even think you factored in the fact that the dummy has -12% PDR… I hope you remake this video with corrected statements/outcomes. It will definitely be helpful for a lot of people.
Also, @Thelorr, here is the damage calculation formula for DaD:
(
(
(
+ (Base Damage + "Buff" Weapon Damage) * Combo Bonus * Impact Zone Bonus
+ Gear "+N Weapon Damage"|"N Magical Damage"
+ Divine Strike Damage
)
* (1 + Power Bonus)
+ "Additional" Damage
)
* (Hit Location Multiplier)
* (1 - Damage Reduction * (1 - Penetration))
* (1 - Projectile Reduction)
)
* Projectile Falloff
+ True Damage
you ran up on me after i got destroyed by a nightmare axe skele, had no second wind no sprint, as soon as i saw the gold cape i knew i was cooked
11:40
Could you make a video with a cheap set for like 2000-3000 Gold
i funkin love greenday
SO CLOSE!!! I think if you pulled put the recurve (or maybe even a surv?) instead of franchiscas you woudl have had him IMO Bow Fighter is the ONLY chance that class has against wizard and I say this as a 🤓 Demigod Wizard Main 🤓
Throwing axes are so easy to dodge when hugging corners compared to bows which can get "free" hits shooting for arms and legs etc.
yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo love your vids
true is better if you have weapons and builds taht give you high attack speed, because there is mutliple instances of the flat dmg. It also depends on the opponent. If the opponent has higher armor and lower health true is better as it makes the armor worth less. Anyone who claims this or that is better, are exaggarating and not really considering the nuances. Its all situational.
Asmongold in another account plays Dark and Darker now!?
Except he is not bold
Last pvp you just threw it man.
You had wizard at door when you hitted 2x time but then he used haste and outrunned you.
You could go back to door block it shield up and renew fight 😂😂😂
You just wanted to throw the Viola ❤😂❤
Buff Wizards!
that first kill was 100% a gold buyer... you'll never convince me otherwise, unless it's a paid actor.
he played like trash but maybe he was just anxious carrying all that juice on him, it happens
He got hit with windlass and pushed into a horrible room. What was he gonna do
his kit was honestly mid
@@oscaaar4313 true. running viola with this mediocre kit makes it even more sus
there was a dupe glitch out and its near end of wipe 🤷♂ @@TiltedMarc
That guy with viola 100% RMTing. Never seen such a horrible player
cough cough 90% magic power bonus + 11 add magic damage crystal sword ignite wizard cough cough
Ryan6dayaweek have explain the complete dmg system from dnd so watch it learn it
bro sayin we key
I don’t get how you make so many people run while they get hit in the back instead of fighting especially a PDR fighter….
No way you just spent 2k on a green ring of courage what lol
It was a gold transfer from my wiz to fighter :D