Avoid this FAILED High-Speed Train in Denmark! - DSB IC4 Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Building trains is a complex process, and it doesn't always go to plan. Today I'm riding on Denmark's IC4 units, a diesel high-speed train intended to operate most long-distance services across the country, which has gone very wrong.
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Journey Details:
Origin: Aarhus H (Aarhus main station)
Destination: København H (Copenhagen main station)
Company: Danske Statsbaner (DSB)
Train: DSB MG 'IC4' DMU
Accommodation: Unknown Seat (?)
Distance: 328 kilometres / 204 miles
Price: 629 kr. (£72.90 / €84.50 / $84.00)
Time: 2h41m + 12 late
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Find me elsewhere:
superalbs.weeb...
/ superalbs
/ superalbstravels
/ superalbstravels
Dont worry Denmark, your railways are still much better than the ramshackle railways we have over here in Norway
*USA has entered the chat*
Could be worse, could be a class 142 pacer
As a Norwegian citizen I would like to say
Ja, vi elsker dette landet, som det stiger frem, furet, værbitt over vannet, med de tusen hjem. Elsker, elsker det og tenker på vår far og mor
og den saganatt som senker drømmer på vår jord.
Dette landet Harald berget med sin kjemperad, dette landet Håkon verget medens Øyvind kvad; Olav på det landet malte korset med sitt blod, fra dets høye Sverre talte Roma midt imot.
Bønder sine økser brynte hvor en hær drog frem; Tordenskjold langs kysten lynte, så den lystes hjem. Kvinner selv stod opp og strede som de vare menn;
andre kunne bare grede, men det kom igjen!
Visstnok var vi ikke mange, men vi strakk dog til,
da vi prøvdes noen gange, og det stod på spill;
ti vi heller landet brente enn det kom til fall; husker bare hva som hendte ned på Fredrikshald!
Melodi: Rikard Nordraak
Hårde tider har vi døyet, ble til sist forstøtt; men i verste nød blåøyet frihet ble oss født. Det gav faderkraft å bære hungersnød og krig, det gav døden selv si
Fienden sitt våpen kastet,
opp visiret for,
vi med undren mot ham hastet; ti han var vår bror.
Drevne frem på stand av skammen gikk vi søderpå;
nu vi står tre brødresammen, og skal sådan stå!
Norske mann i hus og hytte, takk din store Gud! Landet ville han beskytte, skjønt det mørkt så ut. Alt hva fedrene har kjempet, mødrene har grett,
har den Herre stille lempet, så vi vant vår rett.
Ja, vi elsker dette landet, som det stiger frem, furet, værbitt over vannet, med de tusen hjem.
Og som fedres kamp har hevet det av nød til seir,
også vi, når det blir krevet, for dets fred slår leir.
Australia would like a word
@@heidirabenau511 trains in us seem to be set up as long distance tourist trains.
Before watching it, I just wanna put in my own experience with it, riding it a few times shortly after it actually came in service. The very first ride I sat by the entrance, close to the toilets. Shortly after a lady had gone into the toilet and sat down, the door decided to open on its own. Rather unfortunate. By the time I had to leave, I got water on my head, probably from a leaking condense tube or something.
I haven't ridden in them in essentially forever, but judging by the title just your intro, it seems not a lot has changed.
A quick edit as I went along. Never trust the digital screens. The DSB 1 marking on the wall was correct. Bit of a shame though, since the price difference between standard and DSB 1 is ridiculous.
Wonderful videos. Thank you! (I am from Denmark so the IC3 and IC4 videos are of extra special interest to me).🙂
Ha-ha: a small thing. Jutland is actually the only part of Denmark that is NOT and island (as you called it in the beginning) as it is bordering the rest of Europe in Northern Germany as you experienced when driving from Hamburg to Aarhus. So it is actually a peninsula.❤️
This was a brilliant video. I also liked The one on the IC3 where you also mention this disaster of the IC4 as the Italian contractor who won the bid - due to EU lunacy - never found a way to live Up to the high standards for safety om Danish railways, where all trains and tracks are monitored live by both computer and people, and as a train run a red signal or is speeding on low speed sections, it is either slowed down Aor brought to a complete halt remotely. The same goes for the automatic collision detection where trains registered by the computer to be on collision course on the same (or inersecting or joining tracks), will be brought to immediate halt remotely. The Italians simply couldn't meet the zero tolerance for failure during massive testing and has therefore been delayed for decades to the point where this has actually cost sitting governments reelection. They have been running around on tracks in Denmark empty (well with a locomotive operator og course and some IT and testing engineers, of course), and the time and again presented with either major or minor bugs, but as the safety margin in Denmark is ZERO, that did NOT fly, and in the end they never went in regukar circulation as the extreme high speed train to replace the IC3. Driving in the IC3 one would regularly see one of those IC4 trains run empty like ghost trains side by side with your own train. Now a few of them have been put in on some routes but a much lower speed where the lousy Italian merch meets the Danish standards. The dream was that they would make the Journey Aarhus-Copenhagen in just under 2 hrs, but that required them to run 225 km/h and that will NEVER happen.
Your pronunciation and enunciation are impeccable.✌
Thank you very much! :)
AnsaldoBreda lmao 💀 - Fyra wasn't enough for them, one of these exact trains with a Danish train logo on its wheels was found by a Danish TV show in Libya as a gift to Gaddaffi, painted in their national colours (missing from Denmark's order) as his personal train lol (still visible from maps: 32.828791°N 13.111563°E) 🤣
the Italian-Lybian relationship in the late 00s / early 10s was really something.
Lol, I love how one went to Libya, what a scandal the whole project is.
@@SuperalbsTravels You cannot blame Ansaldo for the train in Libya - that was sent as a gift from Silvio Berlusconi.
The buyer is called Astra Trans Carpatic. Is one of the private operators from Romania.
Oh, I didn't know they were getting the IC4 as well?
@@SuperalbsTravels These trains are stocked, clean and good.
It truly reminds me of the Dutch Fyra project. The AnsaldoBreda V250 rolling stock was plagued with so many defects, including exterior panels falling off mid-journey, that eventually the Dutch NS sold the trains back to Italy. In the end the project cost the Dutch taxpayer about €10bn and unlike in Denmark, had no positive sides whatsoever.
It had positive effects: it stopped the regular flexible intercity service between Amsterdam and Brussels from being replaced by a high speed train with mandatory reservation and airline style ticketing. The current service has an issue with excessive pricing since it started to use the high speed line, but it could have been a lot worse.
the IC4 were also built by AnsaldoBreda, which is the main cause of the problems. The company was blacklisted in many countries due to the endless problems, but now that Hitachi has bought the company, maybe they'll be able to build working trains again
The trains didnt cost 10 billion but 400 million, and the HSL line itself costed 7 billion. The HSL line does have a positive effect on travel time between Amsterdam and Brussel...
The most stupid idea ever of the Dutch Railway company was to buy trains from Italy. Yes, the Italians can make great pizzas, but not trains ! In the past, trains were purchased by excellent Dutch railway engineers. No way that they would be fooled by wannabe train builders. But nowadays, procurement is done by unexperienced arrogant MBA boys who pretend to know everything about making “business deals”. But without any knowledge of the business they are working in. The best recipe for disasters like the Fyra trains.
Who knows why in Italy the ETR 700 trains, which had problems in Holland, work very well......Maybe because the Dutch only know how to smoke Hashish and open "sexy-shops"?
Here are the Ansaldo-Breda ETR trains in service in Italy: th-cam.com/video/BNDydmtAnxM/w-d-xo.html
The IC3 seats are unbeatable. Every carriage has the 4 seat + table configuration. It's so consistent and clean. Do you like the IC3?
I actually did one from Hamburg to Aarhus! It was a much nicer trip, but I'll make a video soon... :)
@@SuperalbsTravels Great. Can't wait.
The AnsaldoBreda trains are like modern high-end games: The trains are delivered half-finished, but after a period of tweeks and quality-based upgrades they function fine and they kinda serve the purpose they were built for.
Have a look at what happened with 'our' Fyra V250 trains. Delivered to The Netherlands as the next generation intercity/high-speed intercity express hybrids. Went down in the books as The Netherlands greatest railway failure, suffering from major malfunctioning performances as overheating, and above all; Bottom plating falling off the train during the test phase. The defaults were so severe, the project was completely scrapped áfter pruchase, and all units were sent back to Italy, resulting in major losses for ''NS Highspeed'' ('NS international' nowadays). The end of the Fyra V250 it seemed, back in o'12.
Ten years later, the trains finally are up to scrap and operating.. Well.. Just fine as a B-train in the Italian high speed brand.
So on one hand: we might need to give these units a bit more time to grow and on the other hand; why aren't these units properly functioning (at léast on a basic level) from day one?!
It might get better, but then again; They are built by AnsaldoBreda so who knows.
In the end; I think it's a shame the Fyra never really got it's current condition as one of our international services. 🤷♀🤷♀
AnsaldoBreda certainly suffered from severe and continuous reliability problems as a manufacturer. It jumped from scandal to scandal (there are stil a few more that you didn't mention) until it got purchased by Hitachi in 2016. It now operates under the name Hitachi Rail Italy, and I hope that the Japanese have at last managed to bring these pesky Italians under strict control.
@@osasunaitor of course it was just to paint a picture, and I'm definitely not surprised they're more stories out there, concerning the builder. 😅 If only they just deliver from day one.
@@MeesterMichelM As Hitachi Rail Italy they're building hundreds of new regional trains for the Italian railways called "Rock". So far they've been working nicely and, even if I find them quite ugly, they're confortable trains and way better than the carriages they replaced. Probably the management change has improved the quality control.
On the other hand not all the AnsaldoBreda products were terrible: we have Sirio trams in many Italian cities, their automatic metro system is considered among the best in the world (and it's in operation in Copenhagen as well), the ETR 400 and 500 run most of the Italian high-speed services. Even the ETR700 (the old Fyra) now seem to be running without any major reliability issue after a minor refurbrishment: I don't know why, maybe the Italian workshops have a long experience dealing with trains of that specific brand
The IC4 does not work. It was supposed to run 4 and 5 sets coupled together. It can not run more than two.
It can not fill the need for a long distance long train,
I was actually really happy that the whole Fyra project failed. This line needs a normal intercity service, not a train with mandatory reservation and airline style ticketing.
Exciting sight on the IC4 train! In many of your conclusions I will agree with you, but you were probably also unlucky with all the defects and open technical cabinets. Usually it's not that bad.
Also, usually, coffee is also provided to travelers in first class on IC/ICL and ICL+.
Personally, I think the IC4 is an good train to travel on, as it has good legroom, is spacious and allows for more privacy (in IC3 all seats are in groups of four). But, in my oppinion the most annoying thing is all the vibrations while driving and the loud engine noise. Is that something that you noticed too?
PS. The Railway Museum is definitely worth a visit.
Keep up the good work!
Greetings from Denmark
Not all IC3 have 4 seats-groups. It's depending on what kind of IC3 you ride with or/and if had be rebuilt inside. However I agree, the legroom and seatcomfort is better in IC4 than in IC3 and IR3.
I know lots of traindrivers and conductors hate working with the IC4-trains.
@@Flosk89 In all 96 IC3s (MF), all standard class seats are in seating groups of four, apart from eight in the quiet area. The layout of IC3 is the same in all DMUs.
However, in the electric IR4 (ER), with which they can be coupled, there are differences from EMU to train EMU.
Thanks, glad to hear I was just unlucky, and they're not all this bad though.
I find the rail infra in Denmark shockingly bad considering its standard of living.
The Danish railways are ranked as the third best in Europe, despite the lack of electrification and lack of high-speed services. This is due to very impressive safety records, and due to the high frequency of intercity and regional service.
Electrification is sorely needed, but even without it, it's actually working pretty well. The least frequent train connection in the country still runs every two hours - all other lines are served every hour, or better.
Many of the highly used regional lines have trains at up to 180 km/h, making them very attractive. In many other countries, regional trains tend to top out at 120-160 km/h.
There are 2 considerations for Danish Rail as it is currently :
One is that this IC4 train by manufacturerer AnseldoBreda was disasterous for DSB railways. had they ditched this train and bought new trains in 2014 immediately the company would have been bankrupt. They could only subsitute them on a mediam term period (e.g. in 2 years ...), and for time being have to muddle through with this junk (even in a prosperous country like DK ..). In 2025 DSB will introduce a tested and proven 200kmh variant of the Alsthom Coradia .
Second point is that you have to consider that Denmark consists of one peninsula and many islands. these sea barriers had an effect on (historical) fragmented rail transport. Only since the 1930s was Jutland connected with Funen island and the islands Zealand with Lolland, and only since 1997 (just 25 years ago !) the Zealand Capital Region is connected with Funen and Jutland by the Great Belt Fixed Link.
Just for 25 years you can travel nationwide uninterruptedly by rail.. That is a fairly new situation for DSB and one evolving. And even more so with the Öresund bridge to Sweden (2000) and the currently under construction Fehmarn Belt fixed link (tunnel) to Germany ...
That said, despite all problems, Denmark was 2nd, behind Switzerland, in the '2017 European Railway Performance Index' . With the highes marks of the countries, on the criterium 'safety' ....
Let's say that most problems are with this very IC4 train ..
reminds me of the dutch highspeed ansaldobreda trains, we only had them in service for a month because they literally fell apart... we sent them back to italy immediately after
You're not gonna believe this, but they were built by the same company!
@@SuperalbsTravels doesn't surprise me at all 😐
Congratulations on 40K Subscribers!
The "Nordic" trash bags are biodegradable. They are technically plastic, but are not that traditional oil based stuff.
Aha, thank you!
Allegedly 11 of these trains are still for sale online somewhere. If that's true, I would actually buy one as a meme and run it as a private train here in the US.
You did very good with the pronunciations, and good job at not laughing at Middelfart lol
I really dislike the "pilot-seats". Feels flimsy and are less comfortable than the older IC3 seatings. And less support as well.
The power-plus are in between the seats and don't hold up very well.
Whereas the top-mounted plugs on the IC3, while can be a bit annoying with dangling wires, are far better in terms of solidity and power-stability.
You should have tried the recline on the seats in front of you, they'd have reclined more.
Yes, that's true of reclining seats in a lot of countries, the ones next to the bulkhead can't recline fully.
In my understanding, I think that those plastic bags are for when people have to vomit if the toilet is taken. For example in some school toilets there are plastic bags for just that.
Maybe! Thank you. :)
Your pronunciations of foreign place names are surprisingly good! - coming from a linguist :)
In 3 years the IC5 trains will be in service in Denmark.
Hopefully they'll be better.
Why are the captions covering almost a third of the screen, your English is clear, and excellent ?
Quite a few errors here... To mention a few, Jutland is not an island, but a peninsula, with the landborder to Germany. IC4 is not because it has 4 waggons, but because it is intercity train number 4 in the line, number 5 is comming up. The rest is mentioned further down the comments.
So why did they build the IC2 after the IC3? 😁
I wonder why the DSB logo resembles a Stop sign though
Because that's what happens when these trains break down. 🤣
Me too, I really dislike their decision to go away from the old pretty logo..
@@Masterfighterx The red and white is nicer and more iconic than the grey/silver and navy blue from the 2000s though
So, your question about plastic bags is explained quite easily. There is already in Danish ridden for you that the bag is made 100% of reusable plastic :)
Ooh, thanks for that! :)
12:45 Unfortunately there is no longer any train traffic on the Rødby - Puttgarden ferry.
I know... glad I did it while I had a chance! :)
Never let the Italians build stuff for you :)
You forgot to show the mall that Aarhus Hovedbane is connected to 😢
This station has something in common with the Hickory Run travel Plaza on the Pennsylvania turnpike northeast extension, a 7-11.
Was it this train or an older IC3 that Ansaldo Breda built for DSB that Italy's president had an extra one built for Libya to mark Muamar Qaddafi's 40th year as Libyan leader? That sits derelict in Libya since rail construction ended in 2011 with the Arab spring uprisings?
You forgot to mention how noisy these trains are; they are far more noisy than the IC3 trains. Also, where there are regular tables they are set too high to comfortably use a computer. I will avoid the IC4 trains for both these reasons and I've traveled with them a lot. (Used to travel along the testing route a lot).
Not much are working in Denmark , the public transport system sucks, expensive and most time not working
I think they use the plastic bags, and not bins, because of ease of use. On some of the bags the writing politely asks the people who use them to take it with them out of the train, and throw them in the trash at the arriving station. :)
1st class 2-by-2 pretty narrow seats, that's just insane design.
It's not really acceptable, is it? :/
The plastic bags were made of 100% recycled plastic, so that’s the environmental part you were looking for right in front of you, I would’ve guessed it based on the 100% sign alone, even if I didn’t speak danish.
Thanks!
We bought Italian trains because they looked nice, but the reliability was horrible. Now we electrify and buy German locomotives which may not look snappy, but they will run for 50 years ;)
The museum is btw worth visiting if youre a train nerd.
Absolutely, can't go wrong with a Vectron.
Try the S-train in Copenhagen
Try the line B that goes between Farum - Høje Taastrup
and special on weekend 😂
Jylland is not an Island. It is a peninsula.
Just want to compliment you on the pronunciations. :-)
I'm Norwegian* and not Danish, but I can tell that it's at the very least close (and probably spot on, although we'll need a Dane to confirm that).
*Sort of, it's complicated...
Thank you, I try to make it as accurate as I can!
@@SuperalbsTravels Well, I'm truly impressed. :-)
And I'm curious about how you'd do at some Norwegian place names. :-)
Øresund train drive between Helsingør to Helsingborg. The train (thanks god) is from sweden.
The texts on the plastic bag says it is 100% recycled plastic 😊
Yes, the IC4 is trash, but in no way is Jutland an island.
Well, technically speaking, on the German side, there is a waterway, that starts near Kiel and ends to Brunsbüttel, i am talking about Kiel canal, which might make Jutland an island...technically speaking ofc 😉😉
Oops, thanks for that, my mistake... :/
I think these trains are alright, and I never had this poor an experience on one of them...
I do appreciate that the First Class is exactly the same as Standard, because I've never favoured the idea of state railways promoting class inequality 😂
Just buy Siemens coaches from Germany ...the one Deutsch bahn uses.. they are great comfort to travel and high quality.
What have a Danish operator & Dutch railways in common???
Something from Italy 🇮🇹...... some top notch incompetence: ANSALO BREDA !
Denmarks financial debacle with IC2 & IC4 - Holland with a 220 km/h trainset project 19 sets in total of wich 3 for the Belgium NMBS.
The train operated just 40 !!! days. All kinds of shit happened and €10,8 billon flushed down the drain......
Another Dane here who appreciate this video, though a bit exaggerated as it gives the impression that the seat temple and bathroom being broken is a regular thing. It is not. I have travelled on these thousands of times and never seen a table break and only a few times a bathroom break, but most of the other points made about the video is true. PopFizzelz mention about the plastic and debate, which is true, so no point in going into that. I might add that though the debate and criticism is fair, that I have travelled around the world to many places which had no public transportation train system or had them in even worse shape and state. So I think comparatively the Danish railway system is actually pretty good, though Japan, Switzerland, South Korea and Germany may surpass it, I do not think a lot of other countries has a better one. So flawed yes, but still among the top 10 or at least 20 best rail systems in the world. I think the main gripe is about that the IC4 may not actually be better than the IC3, but we have this same issue too with a lot of computers, mobiles, upgrades etc too....technology is not evolving in all areas that is for sure.
And yes the railway museum is well worth a visit ☺
Toilets broken/closed is too a regular thing. And with the IC4 often beeing the issue of the circular toilet door not closing, the personal is required to lock it up.
Thanks for doing a vid on our trains even tho it was a thumbs down oh and btw u pronounced Århus very good.
Thank you! More videos of Denmark to come, and they will be a lot more positive I'm sure. ☺
@@SuperalbsTravels great😂
So i have actually taken the train ferry before from Copenhagen to Hanburg Hbf
Copenhagen - Ferry terminal 4H
Ferry ride 45mins there is a restaurant on board
German Ferry Terminal - Hamburg Hbf 2H
Ah, yeah that's an amazing trip! I did it just once... :)
@@SuperalbsTravels sadly it's gone due to the bridge
Ah a Diesel Fyra. The Fyra is banned in NL & BE and is now rebranded and falling apart in Italian service.
I've not heard a single complaint about them in service from Italy! I quite like them myself. :)
@@SuperalbsTravels some other reviews on TH-cam had a different experience. Maybe they are good now. The last international train I travelled on was to the IC Amsterdam Berlin , with Bord-bistro and loc change in Bad-bentheim.
The design is NOT scandinavian. It is designed in Italy. Actually the former very colourfull president Berlosconi gave one of the trains as a gift to his friend Gadaffi, who leadet Libya. The train is still somewhere in Tripoli.
The IC4 replaced the much loved ME diesel locos and double decker push pull coaches. Definitely a backwards move. The DSB Litra ME was far better !
What? The double deckers still drive and our Litra MEs and EAs has only just been faced out by our new Siemens Vectron locomotives, that are pulling/pushing the DDs.
IC4 was to replace our IC3 and IR4 trains which it massively failed to do, people even knew it wouldn't before it finally arrived here, several years late.
@@Masterfighterx Cheers. Nice to hear Denmark still has some locos. But sadly there is no competition between a ME and a Siemens Vectron. The ME wins every time !
@@vicsams4431 In terms of sound they compete, Vectron, despite being electric, sounds awesome when accelerating, as does the ME, but in terms of power, looks (ME looked good as well) and environmental stuff, Vectron wins.
Pullpower from a standstill is higher on an ME, but most likely due to 6 vs 4 axles
@@Masterfighterx I respect your personal view, even though I disagree personally. I hate Siemens trains anyway, and I was not impressed with their Taurus. The Vectron is another soulless box on wheels, and the only way you can tell which country you are in, is by the colour of the livery. I have sampled enough Vectrons in the Netherlands and Belgium, and seen them in Hungary and Portugal. If you like them, good for you !
@@vicsams4431 Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Taurus either, neither in terms of sound or design. I don't know much of the technical side of it, but our Vectrons are the first new locos here in a good 30 years, so first new locos for me, so it's nice and refreshing from the old stuff.
Again the old MEs looked good, but I prefer the design of the Vectron, but I'd rather have both, then we'd still have the awesome GM diesel sounds and the warm feeling of seeing the good old trains drive. I will always miss the ME locomotives despite how much I like the Vectron.
Interesting thing I just found out about the MEs (Or just rediscovered from googling) they were built by Henschel.
All railways in Europe are good, much better than the crap we get in America. That’s why I love all railways in Europe!
1:12 American world domination in action, love it.
Don't blame Denmark... these IC4 trains (if you would call them trains) were being built by incompetent Italians.... so many years after DSB signed the contract the trains are still not running perfectly.
yup the railway museum is definitely worth
IC4 is build in Italy. The worst deal we ever done.
Thank you for bringing the truth and Denish DISASTERS!
There is 2 versions of 1st class. DSB 1' Standard and DSB 1' Quiet Zone. 😀
Hi im kind of danish and has Bern using The train IC3 and its in much better condition than The IC4 train and The IC4 has Bern uset more often that the other trains and that is probably why it is in such a state
What a disaster. We really have it made here in Austria.
Dane here! First off huge thanks for this look at our IC4 (or class MG units which is their technical classification), as someone who sadly hasn't yet had a chance to try them out, i personally really appreciate this video! Now on to some points:
The whole IC4 debacle has been a huge scandal here, one that while not quite discussed as often anymore, is certainly still felt in the continued running of the IC3 and IR4 units (Not that i'm complaining 😉). As an aside, one of the main technical issues has been the brakes wearing down prematurely and initially having very poor performance, but it's certainly not been the only one..
The plastic bags in lieu of more traditional bins is in fact a choice made with the environment, as well as efficiency in mind. The bags are made from 100% recycled plastic, and you were gonna have some sort of bag in the bin anyway. Having small carrying bags like this also speeds up cleaning the train, as they just remove the outer most one instead of having to change the bag in each bin.
Lastly the railway museum, absolutely worth a visit if you have the time in Odense! Aside from their fairly impressive collection of vintage and not so vintage rolling stock, they also have many smaller exhibits to gawk at, such as scale models of the Storebælt and Øresund Fixed Link rail tunnels!
Again, thanks for the great vid! Hope to see more like it from you in the future!
EDIT: Misremembered a fact about the trash bags, they're in fact not bio-degradable, just made from recycled plastic.
The IC3 should have been phased out decades ago. I don’t know why Denmark did not electrify its main railway lines on Jylland (the entire railway north of Fredericia) and DSB should have more electric locomotives and EMU in its fleet, such as IR4.
@@brsvang521 Oh i absolutely agree, but i think unfortunately the answer to that can be chalked down to the politicians in Christiansborg just not really wanting to pay for it back then. There's undoubtedly more to it than that, but i think that's the gist of it. Like i said though, as a huge fan of the IC3 I'm not complaining at all, even if i know they've been kept in service far longer than they really should. I was also massively saddened by the retirement of the ME's late last year, even if that was again wholly necessary.
Thank you very much for all the information. And yes, much more to come. :)
@@brsvang521 The IC3's were constructed starting from the late eighties. This really isn't that old for trains.
@@patrickreuvekamp really? In most countries, even many electric trains from the 80s and the 90s have been discontinued from the service. So you think DSB should continue to use their out-of-date diesel trains for more decades?
As someone who travelled a lot by train in the 80's, there is nothing that will ever come close to beating DSB's IC5 and Silver Arrow units. Yes, they were much slower, but the comfort onboard was just amazing. Both of these trains had conference rooms for business travellers, as well as an actual onboard bistro. I especially loved the conference area on the Silver Arrow units, because it had that 60's gentlemen's club vibe with wooden panels, brown leather chairs, oversized ash trays for cigars etc. They tried this concept on the IC3 in the early 90's, but it was sadly dropped rather quickly.
I'm looking for IC5 video. Thanks for sharing.✌
I believe those IC5 sets ended up in Iran!
Denmark your trains away are way better then our London overground and Avantis here in Watford!
Spiderman into the spiderverse< they have 1 train, so you can´t say they are better than in the DENMARK!
Oh yeah! The Silver Arrow with the Boeing 747-like humpbck locomotive where the operators sat above the large diesel engine room. That was a marvellous train. Lovely comfort and both Fist Class and Standard was with the nice small closed compartments. That was truly business class much like flying in the 60's with tables and seats om each side facing each other. And the on board dining was amazing. Not necessarily haute cuisine, but at least a nice hot meal. God, I also miss the train stewardesses/stewards that Fame around regularly with their huge trolley with all sorts of chocolate, snacks, coffee, Tea, bedre, sodas, and a huge selektion of magazines and newspapers.
I really prefer the IC3 over the IC4, the IC3's do have a proper 1st Class in a 2-1 configuration. The seats are not very different from standard class. I think that is something Danish or so. In 2018 i spent 4 hours and 45 minutes on a IC3-train from Copenhagen to Hamburg (via the ferry you mentioned) and that was really amazing :D
I prefer them too! I also remember the train ferry, what an incredible journey...
The seats on IC3 are much better than on the newer IC4 trains
They really don’t
The seats in all our trains are the same throughout. 1st is just about service, not comfort, but the whole service part is lacking since they dropped the catering. 1st also used to be the only part of the train that had wi-fi. Then they implemented wi-fi in the whole train, although it was always unreliable, and then everyone got 4G on their phones which is a lot faster, so they got rid of the wi-fi
The irony of that the IC3 is just as fast.. in theory as the IC4
@0.50 Normally you are quite accurate in your narrative content, but I have to advise you Aarhus may be located in the part of Denmark known as Jylland (Jutland) as you state, but Jylland is not an island - it is a peninsula.
Oops, thanks for the correction!
As a Dane this is sad to know we have such a disaster.
You can call it Tramline instead of Letbane for the English viewers lol, the automatic voice says it all the time for each station. I am very depended on this since I live at the very end of the line.
The plastic trashbags are 100% recycled material, they generally take up much less space, and it says right on the bag that they would like you to take it with you and throw it out somewhere else if used. Idk what other solution you had in mind, the trash is gonna be dropped in a plastic bag regardless.
I dont see the disaster in it when i ride it. It is the most comfortable train in denmark. But i know it cant brake sometimes and i think that is the first thing you are securing first when you make a train.
@@MulleMap The main problem of the IC4 train is mainly the horrible reliability
@@SwiffyDK yes you are right. But the seats are comfortable
?@@MulleMap
In some other countries I've visited e.g. Japan the bins are only beside the doors at 1 of the 2 ends of each train car, so you have to walk there to throw rubbish. Maybe we end up using less plastic by having the rubbish generated by all passengers in 1 car be thrown into 1 same bag located in the sole bin by the train door? Or I guess that in some areas worried about bombs hidden in bins, passengers may be expected to bring their own trash bags & use them to bring their own trash out of the train
DSB is the national railway in Denmark, not the nationalised. It has never been private. It has during the years taken over som smaller local private companies, but the main route you travel has always been serviced by DSB.
Well, if we're being incredibly pedantic, DSB actually was formed by nationalising a few private companies, but that was more than 135 years ago. So yeah, in living memory, it's always been the national railway operator.
@@papaquonis And boy is he being incredibly pedantic!
@@bugsygoo I wear my pedantry with pride (mostly).
@@papaquonis 🤣
DSB is a private company driving for the Danish Government, they can actually lose all their routes if outbidded if they fail.
I travelled on one of those trains on that route 4 years ago and there were no problems.
In fact, at the time I thought it looked luxurious. Then again, it would do compared to the Irish Enterprise that runs between Belfast and Dublin and which I sometimes use - and find fairly cramped in standard class.
I do like the look of these trains, just a shame they are so broken... :/
@@SuperalbsTravels 0:31 I think you are very cute! ✌
6:55 on the bag it says “The plastic bag is made of 100% reused plastic” But Its typically made this ways so if a person gets sick under the ride they don’t have to use a bin!
I guess the main reasoning of the bags is that it's much less labor intensive (so cheaper) to collect used bags than to empty bins.
@@runeodin7237 yeah, also that!
@@runeodin7237 The bags actually ask you to bring them with you, to dispose of them outside of the train. A lot of people don't do that though
Well I can tell you the IC4's have flexible seating and uses the same seats in first class and standard class, similarly to airlines in Europe, The same will be the case on the new Alstom trains, which are already given the name "IC5". Though the talgo trains that have been ordered for services to Hamburg will feature dedicated first class seats. The argument against them on the IC4's and Alstom trains are because of flexibility and the wide range of uses these trains are deployed on from long distance cross country, to short regional services.
First class in Denmark doesn't mean much though. You get free access to a selection of newspaper as well as fresh fruit and coffee, plus if you travel during the morning you'll get a free complimentary breakfast. Thats it though.
I'd just say if unsure, then just stay in the seat you got reserved in case you got 1st class. I know that the IC4's are specifically chosen for the Lyntog+ services because of this. DSB anticipates many more business travellers on these trains than other services, therefore designating a whole carriage for 1st class rather than just a few rows like on other services. And for comparison, on regional services with multiple units coupled together, one of the 1st class sections is downclassed, hence DSB's desire for a uniform and more flexible design.
Also having dysfunctional toilets, broken tables, and delays big enough to cause a missed connection is the best representation of the average DSB experience anywhere on TH-cam
Haha, thank you for the comment! 😅
9 years ago, while i was living in Denmark, they were still debating the issue of IC trains and how long it was taking from AnsaldoBreda to fulfill the delivery. Not to mention the myriad of problems they were facing. One famously stopped in the middle of Storebæltsbroen (The Great Belt Bridge), can't remember if it was in the tunnel, the bridge itself or the island, but thing is, it broke down, during the summer I think, with overflown toilets and hours before they were able to move them. Oh, and a journalist from one of the leading news in Denmark happened to travel on the same train, and imagine the story fresh from the source itself.
And to top it off, Berlusconi gifted to Gaddafi (yes, that Berlusconi of Italy and Gaddafi o Libya), one of the IC4 train sets that were destined for DSB, further adding to the delays. Go figure it.
Yeah, I know. Italian shame.
AnsaldoBreda is so bad that only with the recent acquisition by Hitachi Rail (so renewal of the dreaded Fyra V250, now ETR 700, building the italian version of Bombardier Zefiro - the ETR 400, maintenance of ETR 500, and building new double decker and hybrid EMUs) it started getting a bit better.
If you go to google maps, you can still see Gaddafi's abandoned IC4 lying in some unused tracks built for the purpose in the outskirts of Tripoli.
It is unclear what he intended to do with it, taking into consideration that Libya has no railways XD.
@@osasunaitor it was a gift, considering the relations between Silvio Berlusconi and Muammar Ghaddafi.
Then the Arab revolution happened and everything went so downhill it's still an open fight between the two Libyan forces, who deny each the existence of the other one.
Well, considering the train disaster of Denmark and tram disaster in Gothenburg… Never trust Italians to make trains or trams for Nordic environments…
corruption at its finest. The only good thing about ic4 is the legroom. nothing else on the ic4 works near as good as on the ic3 trains. Sadly.
I have never seen a train in denmark in such poor maintenance state! So far, I have only used the IC3 (DSB MF) the few times I have been to Denmark or I have used them on my way through Schleswig-Holstein (heading south towards Hamburg). I always say, the IC3 is the best an most comfortable diesel powered train I have encountered so far! It is a joy to ride.
Sadly, I also have heard about all the trouble the DSB had with the IC4...
But things are about to change as the electrification is finally on its way. New Vectron locomotives were bought and I have heard, DSB is about to use german IC-cars pulled by Vectrons from next year on on some routes. This will be interesting! :)
So, thank you for this entertaining video!
IC3 is Serie 594 in Spain
@@hermenegildoc3933 The IC3 is Danish design from late 80's
DSB is using Vectron to pull the double-decker carriages on Zealand.
DSB will be using Vectrons to run to Hamburg with DB InterCity carriages from April.
I work in the IC4 somewhat often and in my opinion the the poor maintenance of train in the video is only a bit worse than average and he was lucky to not see some of the other common issues of the IC4, such as.
> Internal doors not working. Could be sensors not working, slow opening, delay in opening and the everyday thing of having to manually open the door (and they can be very tough).
> Really warm or super cold wagons from faulty air conditioning. There is a reason why DSB staff jokingly call IC4 trains “IC4 seasons” or just “the 4 seasons”.
> Bad smell from the toilets.
> Missing big bins (in the rooms outside of the
But yeah, it's going to be nice with some new trains, and I really hope they will be a succes :)
The Railway Museum in Odense is one of my favourite museums in Denmark, definitely recommend it. As for the diesel ICE4 was the most uncomfortable train I ever took. The jitters from the gearbox and engine vibrations made me wished I got off after 15min.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will try to visit it!
@@SuperalbsTravels Danish Railway Museum operates a DSB MZ 1401. In Sydney we, well I, love this loco variant as can still be seen hauling freight daily on inner city rail lines rollin’ with commuter services. Here nicknamed ‘The Helga’, ‘The Cake Tin’, and ‘The Toaster,’ maintaining its wonderful stainless - and stained - metal livery. Quirk meant Aussies bought several of these - and was continue to run old EMDs and relatively ancient locos with no dramas. Tho reputedly drivers whinge and moan about Helga’s due to driving position and accelerator wheel ...
6:50 it says on the plastic bag that it is 100% recycled, so denmark is also actually the most ECO friendly cpountry in europe i think
Aha, interesting thank you!
@@SuperalbsTravels Yes, and it's not normal plastic which last for many years. This bag smoulders within a couple of years. If dropped in the nature it completely dissolves within a few weeks leaving no pollution whatsoever. But of course in the trains they are collected and processed in a recycling system.
A pox ! ... a pox upon the IC-4 trains !
Frankly, I am somewhat upset that they are being sold off to someone else.
They should be scrapped, completely. Selling them, is just going to give others a void to throw money into.
Of all the trains in the world, I never thought that Denmark would be subject of a joke. Even a "third world" viewer like me managed some few chuckles out of the video. I don't know which is funnier though, the train or your remarks about the news in the lounge which happened to be about UK politics
Indeed, trains in Denmark are really out of date. DSB really lacks of good rolling stocks. Being a foreigner living in Denmark, I just feel like trains in Denmark really suck😂
Hahaha, plenty of 'jokes' in this video. 😉
"sit here and watch my own country fall apart"
That's why I subscribe to you mate!
Hahahahahaha 🤣
Denmark IS a very environmentally conscious country. The bags on the bag of the seats are 100% made of recycled plastics AND are 100% recyclable; that is what's written on them in Danish.
yea lol ion know what else it wouldv been made out of.
Mf cardboard would be disasterous
DSB MG ( IC4 ) are made by Ansaldo Breda ( now Hitachi Rail Italy )
Ansaldo Breda is also known for the V250 ^Fyra^ from the NS & NMBS wich was ment for NS HiSpeed line. but the trains ended up breaking appart really quickly, maintenance was impossible and trains where lituarly falling appart. and Eschede 2.0 was just waiting around the corner.
These trains are now in Service as ETR 700 trainsets. basically untouched only optically changed and further developed
Everything i wanted to say about this disastrous spaghetti train has already been mentioned, so i just wanna compliment your pronunciation of the Danish city names, for an English speaker, you are doing remarkebly well
As a train driver of these trains, I have to admit that they're certainly not our best rolling stock. Our IC3 and IR4 (or MF and ER) trains are both more comfortable, less noisy and more reliable than this one, even though they're 15-20 years older. It must be said that even by the lacklustre standards of our fleet of active IC4 trains, this particular train featured in the video seems to be in a pretty sorry state.
As a driver, they're reasonable enough for longer journeys, if you get one of the better ones. Unfortunately they're now more often used for regional train services, which they're honestly not well suited for due to a very clunky gearbox and slow acceleration.
As a passenger, I think the only thing I actually like more about this train compared to the IC3/IR4 trains is the ample leg room - which is hardly that impressive for a much newer train. We're definitely ready for those new electric trains in a few years time, when we've got more overhead wires sorted.
Thanks for the insightful comment! I agree about the legroom, it's so generous. :)
As a former employee in maintanance I can add, that the traincomputer is always fooling us upon start up with way too many failure infos on the screen , having us running back and forth several times between the drivers stand and the panels around the train, shutting down and re-starting sub systems until later only few error messages are left.
Typical reaction of the train driver at the hand-over when we report "all ok": "Nooo wayyyy!!!" 😅
Yeah, sure, 7-Eleven is a pan-nordic, Japanese, Koreanese and American equivalment of Polish Żabka.
Yup, they sure are everywhere!
@@SuperalbsTravels That's because there's some sort of agreement with DSB and the owners of the 7eleven franchise in Denmark, and they sell train tickets (except at stations with their own ticket office)
The poor maintenance of train in the video is in my opinion only a bit worse than average, and you were lucky to not see some of the other common issues of the IC4, such as.
> Internal doors not working. It could be sensors not working, slow opening, delay in opening and the everyday issue of having to manually open the door (they can be very tough).
> Really warm or super cold wagons from faulty air conditioning. It's not without reason DSB staff jokingly call IC4 trains “IC4 seasons” or just “the 4 seasons”.
> Bad smell from the toilets.
> Missing big bins (in the rooms outside the main seating areas)
I often work in the IC4, but I work for an external company hired by DSB. For work I prefer IC3, but I actually prefer being passenger in IC4, because I like the seats better, IC4 trains are so spacious compared to the IC3 and on the main routs IC3 trains are often PACKED with people.
Also, I find IC3 can be very shaky and bumpy during the ride, maybe stemming from the tracks. Occasionally a IC4 train will do some crazy shaking in the very beginning of acceleration but I find it to otherwise be riding smoothly.
Great video! I also very much look forward to the new trains!
I am watching videos about trains on a sunday at 11am and I am somehow enjoying it. Nice videos bro!
It’s not Denmark, is Italy. We bought this crap from the Italians, because we were forced by because of EU laws.
The fact one ended up in Libya is even more hilarious as it was from DSB’s order
Hahahaha, it's hard to even believe that happened, but of course it actually did! 🤣
@@SuperalbsTravels Exactly!
@@SuperalbsTravels Well with a prime minister as Silvio Berlusconi anyting can happen (he was the one, who gifted it to Gaddafi).
TIL Danish railways are barely any better than ours in Australia: Sydney to Canberra is 329 km, takes 4h8m and costs 55 AUD (33 EUR)
When at the start you mentioned that the IC4 was designed by Pinninfarina and mentioned it had a lot of problems, I had a little look around...
Turns out they were built by AnsaldoBreda... so yeah, I'm surprised they even got them running. The Dutch and Belgian railways (NS and NMBS) ordered their intercity replacement from them (Fyra), but the build quality was so shoddy the contract was dissolved... eventually.
From what I've read, the root cause of the problem was that there wasn't a lot of companies interested in building diesel trains, so Ansaldo Breda had little or no competition, and railway companies who couldn't use electric trains just had to accept Ansaldo Breda's low standards.
@@peterknutsen3070 Maybe Denmark should have started electrifying back then, refurbish/repair the IC3s and borrow trains to fill in the gabs (if borrowing trains is a thing)?
I'm surprised you found the seats to be comfortable. I used to commute on these disasters on wheels and my bakside began to hurt in less than 20 minutes. I possible, I travel by IC or ICL instead, as these are almost always operated by IC3 rather than IC4. As a sign of how bad the IC4s are, DSB are actually planning to phase out the IC4s before the IC3s.
As a side not, there is no catering onboard any trains in Denmark anymore. The trolleys you saw were probably just used for storage of coffee which is provided for first class. The trolleys were phased out years ago, so all the facilities for them onboard are useless, including the lifts. The new IC5 units from Alstom will feature improved vending machine based catering. The IC3s already have a very limited vending machine for drinks. I believe the IC5s will feature hot drinks and some foods/snacks as well, but that might subject to change.
Try riding a Lint 41 then you will repect the seats of the IC4.
@@Mgameing123 Oh I have, on a regular basis too. Not gonna lie, I didn't mind them. By no means goods, but not as bad as the IC4s in my opinion. It might be because my standards for small, regional trains are lower than for IC.
@@cheesekingofdenmark6910 Wierd. For me the seats on the lint (Arriva) are shit. Even Aarhus Letbane has better seats.
Yeah I thought they were alright! But the IC3 is better of course. :)
I have to lay down because the 💺 are so bad for my bad back. 😢
It’s so true. I actually like the Danish railroad. I think the IC3 and IR4 are great trains and normally in the old days they ran on time 4 the most days of the year. But when I started using IC4 because they were introduced to us as a regional service on west Fyn (because no one els wanted them) I stoped using the railroad because they broke down every secend day 😭 so I Bort a car instead and never returned to rail agin 😀
You did not mention that they shake and rattle and are noisy inside from both the engine and the rattling and that very often you can smell the brakes and /or exhaust fumes. I measured the noise on 1 trip and it was 60 Db which is not pleasant but the maximum allowed noise.
Can't say I had that much of a problem in that regard! Do all carriages have engines? Mine wasn't too loud.
@@SuperalbsTravels you can tell when the train sets off, that it really doesn't want to run. It's shaking and fighting for traction. It feels like a miracle when the IC4 finally gets moving.
Hahaha, the Italian company no longer made this train when they were ordered! It is a joke of Denmark. They pressed the Italian manufacturer for the train, and it was delayed many years, that I lost count. The reason it was delayed is that EU was moving to all electrical routes, however some danish politicians wanted the diesel. The original manufacturer had moved onto building electric trains, so the IC4 was built by some other manufacturer. Denmark tried to sue for this change, however, I did not follow what happened to the court case within the EU. Honestly, the best train ride is the Coast Train railways. First Class is usually the same as stillezone (quiet area). Oh and the reason many parts are failing, is that also this train gets trashed by football fans regularly.
When I was younger I would go to the Odense railway museum every time I visited my grandfather and I would recommend it, it shows a lot of Danish locomotives
Sounds great! I will try and visit one day.
I used to be a cleaner for these trains and I can say they are the worst and was a mistake bought train, it's breaks down every 20 min literally and half of the time the outlets and when we have to turn them on just to clean it for the lights half of the time it won't turn on.
So yeah they are a disaster, we will be rid of them at 2030-40, and get new and better ones
I regularly travel FlensburgOdense with the DSB on the IC3 and they’re some of my favorite trains to ride on. I haven’t taken an IC4 yet, but its a shame they’re in such poor condition. But I quite enjoyed the Jernbanemuseum, it (and Odense) are definitely worth a visit!
The bags ARE made of 100% reused plastic
I can feel the disaster will end when the Alstom Coradia ordered by DSB entered service.
Hopefully! ☺
Great trip. I think this train is better having all standard class onboard, rather than First Class but using Standard Class Seat Configuration.
I agree, it just seems like a rip-off to be honest...
Because the Danish didn't wanted this train only some few trains entered service (the IC4 ones) the IC2 ones never entered service in Denmark (I think) so they were sold to the Romanian train company Astra Trans Carpatic and they entered service there in 2018.
DSB only use around 40-50 IC4 out of 82.
The IC2 went to service for a short period but later sold or scrapped.
So why does the title say "Avoid this FAILED high speed train!", when the only complaints seem to be one or two issues with the fixtures and fittings? It seemed to be on time, and there didn't seem to be any serious complaints about the comfort. Are a few not-shutting-properly access panels reason enough to avoid it completely?
Because this video is clickbait trash
As a Dane I would not recommend riding with IC4.
It's noisely, smells, and just a bad train except for the seat comfort.
The reliability is a massive problem with these trains, but of course if my train doesn't break down itself, then it's hard to highlight this beyond a quick mention.
If the comfortable seats are the only plus whilst all the rest ist lousy, it deserves the criticism. And a major issue is reliability as well as functionality.
The IC3 trains are fantastic and in my experience, they are in great shape too, it's embarrassing we still use the IC4 trains.
Would you be interested in documenting the IC3 someday to share with everyone? Shots of the exterior, interior, the coupling in transit and such. There are a few different versions although I think most have the basic carriages with the lovely 4x4 seat arrangement and the gray texture with the old DSB logo. There seemingly exists almost no videos or photos of the trains.
You could argue that it would be embarrassing _not_ to use the IC4s too, then it would be even more of a waste!
banished to Romania hahaha that's funny and effed up