Just a thought (and Im no expert). Could the fact the serial number being obscured/removed point towards it being stolen at some point, to cover its identity?
Possibly, but it is worth considering that a headstock break might have been replaced with a remade headstock - so no serial number. Paul Kossoff's 59 is the same, broken stock replaced by a custom stock - no serial number.
I would have thought a Luthier capable of repairing a neck break would be able to avoid sanding off the serial number and know it is important to preserve the identity of the guitar..... This is a great presentation, thanks boys.
@@mrmanch204 not so much, back then no one cared about serial numbers ,it was just a guitar . No one knew 60 years later they would be what they are today. Could of gobbled it with glue took it to a sander and smoothed it all out not careing about serial numbers or if it shaved the headstock down a little.
One area of guitar identification that often gets overlooked is the uniqueness of the fret marker inlays. The markers on Les Pauls are helpful in this area due to their large size. The individuality of each inlay is often captured very well in photographs and as both missing instruments would have been photographed many times this may help you guys further with your investigations. Good luck, and thanks for a very enjoyable video.
Love the color! This video was awesome. I expected to watch only one minute but instead found myself nerding out with you guys for forty minutes. Learned a lot. Great content. Thanks!
Our channel repeatedly talks about your videos. And the archeology you do for the music we all love . The next generation of fans will be well served with this organic research you and Bob provide . Thank you Ramon and Bob
I believe the key to discovering if this is the Summers Burst is in the photo of Clapton with it around the 33:56 mark & the patterns on the inlays which can be a fingerprint like the wood grain. The third fret inlay in particular has a mark between the A & D strings. It's difficult to tell from the images here but I looks to me a like there could be a similar marking in the guitar in question. Also the headstock in the same photo appears to be a little out of shape... possible "corrected" a bit during the second repair? I'm feeling like there's a good chance of it being the Summers Burst.. at least from here
Hey, I found something you might be interested in from Gibson themselves. I was looking at Gibson Custom 60th anniversary Les Paul and this is what the description said: Les Paul standards from the first third of 1960 (V1) had the same specs as their 1959 counterparts, while the middle (V2) introduced thinner neck profiles, different knobs and brighter colors. The final third (V3) brought about some of the thinnest necks Gibson ever produced, accompanied by wide, colorfast sunburst finishes. That's from Gibson themselves so I hope this helps.
What you should do is try and get Clapton to play it. He would be the only one who can verify whether it's the Beano burst, Summers' burst, or neither of them.
In my mind, the shallower the break angle of the string over the saddle, the lower the friction coefficient of the string over the saddle, so less force is required when moving/bending the string. A similar lower friction effect is obtained when you apply a lubricant to the nut. It’s not a question of reducing the string tension, it’s more a case of reducing the friction across fixed points. Ie the nut or saddle. So yes, top wrapping DOES indeed make vibrato and bending of strings easier.
Mark Hemming ,I worked for Sound City Jan-Jan 1967 and again Sept 1969-March 1970. I cant remember all the brands of strings we sold but two of the most popular were Fender and Gibson. One of the manufactures, I cant remember who, had a manufactures fault and the Ball End was faulty and so the string were giving way at the Ball End and the sales staff were told to tell all Gibson owners to put their strings on and wrap it around the bar and with Fender were told tell the Fender owners to put the end of the string through the ball end hole several times before putting them on the Fender Guitar and that seemed to stop the strings giving way on the Gibson and Fenders.
New boy to the channel guys (New boy!!! - I'm 73!) VERY informative to say the least. I look forward to going over your back-catalogue and to future shows. (I have an '83 'Experimental' SG which I love - paints in a bit of state at the bottom of the body - and yes the heads been of and professionally repaired!)
I don't think that is the Beano Guitar, the reason being is that the flat head slots on the tailpiece are in a completely different direction. Also, there is a distinct markdown by the tailpiece you don't see
Could probably be identified as Summers burst by inlays, they have a pretty good fingerprint. Wonder if Ramon remembers playing my Beck replica? how does the neck compare to Bob's 58?
I got no horse in this race but according to Bonamassa and some of his fellow guitar nerds, it has been said that the Beano guitars resides in a collection in the East Coast of the US. No names and locations mentioned. Sad because it would be an iconic piece of history we could all appreciate. Whether or not Bonamassa's info is right or accurate... your guess is as good as mine.
@@TheSavagederek that could be the case in general. But when it comes to collecting he is connected into the weeds and closest circles. I do wish that guitar would surface. It’s iconic.
Hi, I saw that already some people mentioned that this likely is not the Summers Burst, as it is (was) lately owned by Drew Berlin, one of the Burst Brothers (vintage Les Paul collectors/dealers). Let me give you guys some more details about what public information is available: In the Burst Believers II book, which was published by Vic DaPra in 2014, Drew wrote a feature article on this very guitar on page 14 and 15 where he explains the story of the Summers Burst guitar, featuring high resolution pictures of its current state. Here is quoted what he had to say about its time after Clapton: "Okay, so it's clear that this Burst was used on Fresh Cream, but why was it not used again in the rest of Cream's short-lived career? In trying to understand these facts for myself, I traced the path this Burst took to New York City, 1967, where Eric and Cream were at the time. The road crew dropped the Fresh Cream/Summers Burst, and the headstock broke off. They then brought it to Dan Armstrong to have it repaired. He in turn, gave it to the best luthier in New York City, for whom no job was impossible. His name is Matt Umanov. Matt was very young when he discovered his talent for luthiery. The combination of his skills and talent were brought to the attention of world-class guitar players in need of the best sounding instruments. He quickly gained the reputation as the go-to guy in the New York area for restoration and repair of pre-war to current musical instruments. So Matt was clearly the guy to turn to in this situation. So here's where the story gets interesting. When Dan Armstrong asked Matt to take up the challenge and repair the broken headstock, Matt realised at the time that the headstock could no longer be grafted back on to the guitar, due to the severity of the break. He then asked Dan if he could get creative with this project, to which Dan gave his approval. With Matt's history of passion and appreciation for pre-war Gibson mandolins, he thought it would be cool to replace the headstock with a Gibson F4 mandolin headstock. And so it was to be." The article ends at this point and doesn't give any further details on what happened after the repair, and why or when Clapton didn't use the guitar any more after the repair, however the photos in the book show details of the headstock. It is as described by Drew a flourished F4-mandolin styled headstock, with Eric Clapton inlayed instead of the Gibson Logo and a weird looking inlay, which seems to be a shilouette of a female head wearing a laurel wreath or crown, like some design one would find on an old metal coin. There is also a high resolution picture of the figuring on the top on this guitar, next to the black and white picture of Andy Summers playing it, and the grain matches up pretty well, not to mention open coil double black PAFs as Clapton used to play it. Honestly, I find the headstock weird and that might be a reason that Eric let it go, but the Burst itself is incredible. Crazy figuring, intense tomato soup colouring and of course highest provenance.
Well, that's an interesting story, but some of the pictures I've seen of Eric playing the guitar quite obviously show a (poorly) repaired Les Paul headstock break, the headstock having the usual open-book top, "Les Paul Model" and Gibson logo.
The Bridge wrapping question is like the which is the heaviest a pound of Lead or a pound of Feathers one.Tension is tension, it will be the same wrapped around or run through the tailpiece. The Action may be affected but the tension will be the same.
That said i have a DC jnr that's top wrapped but it does have a Molita on it. The wiring is kind of 50's fashion but it's hardly military grade. Had to come back and watch again, great show. It has occured to me that maybe Eric could tell if it was his stolen Guitar? The serial number has clearly been removed. To play Devils advocate wouldn't someone with a stolen item remove the serial number or obvious identifying marks? I suppose God s to busy to be bothered? It may be worth asking though? The owners like "No, no what if he takes a shine to it and wants it, balls to that" lol.
On the subject of headstock breaks and repairs, Michael Schenker reckoned that when he had his Flying V repaired it sounded better than before. As I recall, he said that may be due to having a steel rod inserted to reinforce the repair.
Yes and overspray them no kidding this guitar is STOLEN and they know it which makes me wonder about why they would do this to begin with nothing worse on earth then a thief.. except maybe someone holding a stolen guitar back and I have no respect for either one lower then snake shit.........
Not necessarily, Paul Kossoff's '59 has no serial number because the headstock break was replaced with a remade headstock, not the original one - so no serial number.
Top-wrapping should decrease the _downward_ force of the strings from force vectors as the break-angle decreases, no? Whether that makes any difference to the feel of the strings or the body resonance they pick up through the bridge, I don't know. I top-wrap. And it's satisfying to have the tailpiece screwed down flat. But I don't claim it makes any difference to feel or tone. I do it because it's kind of fun. Which is a damn good reason.
17:45 Topwrapping: the tension doesn't change but the friction of the string against the saddles does (it's decreased). This makes for easier bendings, vibrato, etc. as the string is more free to move.
Bending the strings resulting in higher pitch is not due to the string moving or stretching, bending the strings increases the tension between two points, just as if you were tightening the tuners, not to mention if the strings were actually moving on the saddles the strings would break frequently
Just seen this (better late than never) & it reminds me of another '59 thats been hidden within the M25 since the 1970s. My brothers one is up for sale at Dore & Rees in March 2022.
No. Not even Customs. It wouldn't have made sense even if we didn't know that for a fact. They were actively marketing the SG as the Gibson Les Paul Model. It would have been hopelessly confusing if they were also putting out the original Les Paul form at the same time.
@@thecaveofthedead There is one known custom and one burst I believe. The Gibson 61 ledgers start with LP and then go to 'LP new' as I recall. This is from memory so I'm open to be corrected. Gibson often overlapped old and new models. There are P90 Goldtops well into the humbucker years. Firebirds were a complete jumble too. Guitars were not completed in a day. Probably over weeks with the curing time for non plasticised nitro. New models would be being made while racks of old ones would still be curing or being set up.
What I wish you would have commented on is if the original neck PAF pickup was all white covered..that would put it towards the Beano Burst corner I think. Cool video. Be great to know what happened to that guitar.
The real reason to top wrap is related to the fact that some set ups cause the strings to sit on the edge of the bridge due to the angle coming out of the tail piece. The angle plus that tension / friction against the bridge will cause the string to snap at that point of contact. So if you don't want to raise your tail piece, then top wrap is your next option. Case closed.
@@TheGuitarShow did you try the pencil trick where you put a piece of paper over what you are trying to see and take a pencil and use the side of the graphite point of the to rub on the paper. it there is any indentation left at all this will definitely show what was there.
Great and interesting video. Im convinced that a lot of the people that are negative or insulting in the comments haven't even watched the whole video. It seems to be the curse of the interweb
If this can be proven to be a stolen Clapton guitar, then under UK law it belongs to him still. AFAIK there is no statue of limitations on theft (or anything else for that matter) in the UK, so even though it was 50 plus years ago it doesn’t matter. Of course, proving it would be next to impossible probably. Top wrap for me all day long by the way.
How do you Clapton didn’t sell it a baggie of H ? I don’t think Clapton was known for being too lucid back then. He sometimes performed while playing on his back.
My Les-Paul is real 1959 and the 1960's some were mixed 60 body,59 necks. Nice guitar my friends, ps i had a 59 les paul jr Tobbaco sunburst and i had it leaning against my white Marshall stack and it fell over and the headstock broke off. cause back in the 70s my Jr was purchased from my dads guitar player and i had it fixed by one of the only certified luthers and amp repairs in Chicago, Il ps i still have my flame top 59 that my dad gave me when i was seven........
2 more huge telltale signs you didn't go into - the neck tenon on the tomato soup 60 Les Pauls (later 1960) were a short cut off tenon as opposed to a 59 with the long tenon. That would instantly tell you the year or at least give you a better idea. Also the original neck pickup bobbin colour as the tomato soup 60 would only be black coils as on the summer's/fresh cream burst. On late 1960 Les Pauls, the reflector knobs would also be there as on the summer's guitar, but as the pots have been messed with and one changed, it'd be feasible that the original knobs were also changed.
So greatness in this chanel, i hace a Traditional Pro, 2011 not even on the same leage of a 59 or 60 but man do i love everything about Les Paul guitars, good job here.
It's my understanding that top wrapping does two things. One it shortens the working or overall, length of the string which lessens the tension. The shorter the scale the less tension required to tune it to pitch. I like mini guitars for that reason, arthritis and all. Secondly you drive the studs deeper into the body which increases the resonance and the sustain.
bgarrison67 Surely top wrapping lengthens the string. Only a bit, but every little helps to give more tone. That's why a Grand Piano is a lot louder and has more sustain than a honky tonk upright.. I agree about the studs though, more mass = better sustain also.
Raising the stopbar adjusts the string tension to the player's desire. That's what it's for. A wraparound sets the angle to the equivalent of raising the stopbar to its higher level thus lessening the string tension. If you bend strings you can feel the difference straight away.
People were making sunbursts out of gold tops in 1972 in San Francisco Bay Area. I watched one being created at a shop by a luthier that worked on my D41. Later they showed me the finished product and let me play it. Quite nice and with a beautiful curly ribbon top after the finish was removed. Thus an $800 dollar Les Paul became $2,000+. My stock white 25th anniversary LP went with me to London and fetched $2,500 in 76. Cost with case in SF at the time new with heavy bargaining was $550 out the door. I immediately bought another for the same upon return and traded it for a 1961 Byrdland. The sunbursts were a tribute to Beano which was revered as well back then.
i didnt see any extra tuner holes or evidence of being filled and why would there be indentations in the serial number when its inked? just curious, have to see it i guess
Not the "Summers burst", that guitar was in Dick Ziff's collection for a time. It was repaired with a mandolin headstock. There are a few pictures of it with Ziff's other Les Pauls. In fact, the pictures were used by Ed King in order to find his "Red Eye" LP, which was in Ziff's hands too.
This is correct. The mandolin headstock story of the Summers Burst is detailed - with photos - in one of Vic DaPra's "Burst Believers" books. I seem to remember Dan Erlewine being involved in the project, or perhaps Dan Armstrong - I can't recall exactly. Regardless, the guitar in this video is not the Summers Burst - unless it's had another, subsequent repair (which might explain the smaller headstock).
@@adamwhite2329 thanks for the info! I couldn't find a photo of the Ziff collection with a guitar I recognised as the summer's burst and unfortunately I don't own that book! Cool info though, it's interesting where these guitars end up. I remember reading an interview with Eric Clapton from the 60s talking about using a new Les Paul (meaning SG I think) because even though the old 1958 Les Pauls sound better, they warp and break. Also interesting how at the time his SG was the more solid reliable guitar and his 60 summers burst broke, yet now we think of the SG as a more fragile guitar than any Les Paul.
Wonderful video guys, very well done, so refreshing to not have another 'gear' video. Question: The neck pickup (that isnt working) what colour are the bobbins ?
Good point. I top-wrap my '69 LP Custom, but only because it has a rather steep neck angle and the ABR-1 bridge is fairly high off the body. Even when top-wrapping it there is still a decent break angle, so I do that in order to drop the stop tailpiece to the body.
I owned a 1967 345 that had been shipped from USA about 2000. The guitar had been professionally lacquered we don’t know when but probably 1970s. This was commonly done when guitars were gigged to protect the finish. Sometimes done by Gibson to order. The colour was quite similar in the way it held onto its red colour due to the lacquer. Black light did look a bit cloudy.
Great show and like everybody else I’m a huge Clapton fan And yes a lot of people are top wrapping The stop bar on my les Paul I just Raised The stopbar and it plays like butter it makes bending a lot easier A lot of people make the mistake of letting the strings hit the back of the bridge before they hit the saddles that’s hard on your strings and the guitar does not play as easy as it should
@@TheGuitarShow Noted, thank you! Had to watch this again last night because of just how fascinating it is. And to think, what and who that guitar possibly saw in the 60’s.... Thank you again. Have a great day!
@@TheGuitarShow Yes, he was playing the 'mystery' guitar through the back pu and getting a particularly bitching tone during the final moments of the vid... Hi Ramon... hope things is cool wit'choo...
The Matthew Scott channel on this website is currently featuring him in the process of "authenticating" a supposed 1958 Gibson Les Paul that he recently purchased from one of the retail chain store locations owned by the American charity organization Goodwill. He also owns a late 1950's Fender Mary Kay Stratocaster as well as a 55' or 56' Stratocaster burst.
Lol What did he expect a real one ? From Goodwill in 2020 come on.. There is a burst in my tiny town right now and they claim its real only its a fake and I told them who built it and they still claim its real but its not for sale of course till the right sucker walks in and loses their ass on it.. its as fake as Barak Obama and they just refuse to admit it.....
Top wrapping only changes the break angle coming off the tailpiece. Sometimes the string will rest on the corner of the bridge, depending on the neck angle. String length is also slightly lengthened and reduces tension.
I've heard at least two great players who have said that a repair head stock is stronger and makes the guitar resonate louder, one Jimmy Page, and Kirt Hammett, as well as a few hot shot hired guns. If its done right its a chance to get a great deal on a R9.
Awesome guitar, honestly it could be Lil Waynes guitar(not that he could play it) but honestly it doesnt matter cause that is a beautiful old Les Paul in a somewhat original state. Love your videos and keep up the investigation, even if it isn't Eric's guitar you might just find that holy grail.
Theres a video on youtube of a guy playing 5 reissues, and an original '60.....The guy is playing over Id Rather Go Blind with all of them.....The '60, looks. sounds, and in my opinion theres a chance its the Beano burst....Call it a hunch....lol
"Deep geekery" ha ha y'all are the best... and yes, it took players and builders alike 70 odd years to make a tunable nut where all but the very worst tuners work just fine... loving this
I agree about the tail stop bar but i think the break angle at that area of the guitar is far better than the headstock, the break angle on a Gibson headstock is extreme, i use string butlers on mine and find it works in terms of holding tune, they even keep the old Klusons stable and aids string retention.
No matter the opinion of this particular guitar, you never fail in presenting quality, informative, and interesting content.
Thanks George!
Just a thought (and Im no expert). Could the fact the serial number being obscured/removed point towards it being stolen at some point, to cover its identity?
Possibly, but it is worth considering that a headstock break might have been replaced with a remade headstock - so no serial number. Paul Kossoff's 59 is the same, broken stock replaced by a custom stock - no serial number.
@@jimherleva4541 True, but the fact that there apears to be a "ghost" of what could be a serial number does raise questions
@@egnbigdave Well, that does change things. Must have missed that bit!
I would have thought a Luthier capable of repairing a neck break would be able to avoid sanding off the serial number and know it is important to preserve the identity of the guitar.....
This is a great presentation, thanks boys.
@@mrmanch204 not so much, back then no one cared about serial numbers ,it was just a guitar . No one knew 60 years later they would be what they are today. Could of gobbled it with glue took it to a sander and smoothed it all out not careing about serial numbers or if it shaved the headstock down a little.
Thanks!
Thanks you so much Daniel!
One area of guitar identification that often gets overlooked is the uniqueness of the fret marker inlays. The markers on Les Pauls are helpful in this area due to their large size. The individuality of each inlay is often captured very well in photographs and as both missing instruments would have been photographed many times this may help you guys further with your investigations. Good luck, and thanks for a very enjoyable video.
Love the color! This video was awesome. I expected to watch only one minute but instead found myself nerding out with you guys for forty minutes. Learned a lot. Great content. Thanks!
Many thanks indeed bro!
This was absolutely fascinating, guys. Thank you for doing this!
Our channel repeatedly talks about your videos. And the archeology you do for the music we all love . The next generation of fans will be well served with this organic research you and Bob provide . Thank you Ramon and Bob
🙏
Ok..when we gonna call Clapton ❓
There are plenty of things one can call him...
Call Eric!
@@chuckschillingvideos God.😄
Great video, thanks. However... 13:45 -- that's a Gibson T Top, no? T markings very visible...
I believe the key to discovering if this is the Summers Burst is in the photo of Clapton with it around the 33:56 mark & the patterns on the inlays which can be a fingerprint like the wood grain. The third fret inlay in particular has a mark between the A & D strings. It's difficult to tell from the images here but I looks to me a like there could be a similar marking in the guitar in question. Also the headstock in the same photo appears to be a little out of shape... possible "corrected" a bit during the second repair? I'm feeling like there's a good chance of it being the Summers Burst.. at least from here
"You're a fuckin' Aweful Luthier" :)
Brilliant!
lol
That was really interesting, loved it.
Thank you for 41 very enjoyable minutes. Bob you knowledge about these guitars is fantastic.
Thanks!
Yes ! I’ve been waiting all week for this, can’t wait to watch !
What’s the update on this guitar? Is it for sale?
17:15 My Les Paul finally plays in tune, since I began wrapping the strings across the top. Go figure.
Mine too.
One question, what color is the original neck PAF? That would be a huge clue.
White.
Later on in the comments section they say Black..🤷♂️
Frailers is in Runcorn :) but only started operating in 1983
Curlys Music is in Liverpool - Started 1978
I was in Curlys the other day👍
Hey, I found something you might be interested in from Gibson themselves. I was looking at Gibson Custom 60th anniversary Les Paul and this is what the description said:
Les Paul standards from the first third of 1960 (V1) had the same specs as their 1959 counterparts, while the middle (V2) introduced thinner neck profiles, different knobs and brighter colors. The final third (V3) brought about some of the thinnest necks Gibson ever produced, accompanied by wide, colorfast sunburst finishes. That's from Gibson themselves so I hope this helps.
Thanks for this Eric
What you should do is try and get Clapton to play it. He would be the only one who can verify whether it's the Beano burst, Summers' burst, or neither of them.
Was gonna say the same thing! Eric would know for sure!
Bonamassa say's a collector on the USA east coast has the Beano Les Paul!
Great video..really enjoyed watching this,I love how articulate Bob is.Thank you for posting.
In my mind, the shallower the break angle of the string over the saddle, the lower the friction coefficient of the string over the saddle, so less force is required when moving/bending the string. A similar lower friction effect is obtained when you apply a lubricant to the nut.
It’s not a question of reducing the string tension, it’s more a case of reducing the friction across fixed points. Ie the nut or saddle. So yes, top wrapping DOES indeed make vibrato and bending of strings easier.
Mark Hemming ,I worked for Sound City Jan-Jan 1967 and again Sept 1969-March 1970. I cant remember all the brands of strings we sold but two of the most popular were Fender and Gibson. One of the manufactures, I cant remember who, had a manufactures fault and the Ball End was faulty and so the string were giving way at the Ball End and the sales staff were told to tell all Gibson owners to put their strings on and wrap it around the bar and with Fender were told tell the Fender owners to put the end of the string through the ball end hole several times before putting them on the Fender Guitar and that seemed to stop the strings giving way on the Gibson and Fenders.
New boy to the channel guys (New boy!!! - I'm 73!) VERY informative to say the least. I look forward to going over your back-catalogue and to future shows.
(I have an '83 'Experimental' SG which I love - paints in a bit of state at the bottom of the body - and yes the heads been of and professionally repaired!)
🙏
I don't think that is the Beano Guitar, the reason being is that the flat head slots on the tailpiece are in a completely different direction. Also, there is a distinct markdown by the tailpiece you don't see
Good point thanks
Could probably be identified as Summers burst by inlays, they have a pretty good fingerprint. Wonder if Ramon remembers playing my Beck replica? how does the neck compare to Bob's 58?
Also, didn't Manzanera play Summers burst in Roxy Music?
I got no horse in this race but according to Bonamassa and some of his fellow guitar nerds, it has been said that the Beano guitars resides in a collection in the East Coast of the US. No names and locations mentioned. Sad because it would be an iconic piece of history we could all appreciate. Whether or not Bonamassa's info is right or accurate... your guess is as good as mine.
Legally does Clapton have any rights upon it? It was stolen and you can't resell stolen material.
Bonamassa is an idiot.
@@TheSavagederek that could be the case in general. But when it comes to collecting he is connected into the weeds and closest circles. I do wish that guitar would surface. It’s iconic.
Cambridge Maryland
@@rsears78 Is that where DZ lives?
Hi, I saw that already some people mentioned that this likely is not the Summers Burst, as it is (was) lately owned by Drew Berlin, one of the Burst Brothers (vintage Les Paul collectors/dealers).
Let me give you guys some more details about what public information is available:
In the Burst Believers II book, which was published by Vic DaPra in 2014, Drew wrote a feature article on this very guitar on page 14 and 15 where he explains the story of the Summers Burst guitar, featuring high resolution pictures of its current state. Here is quoted what he had to say about its time after Clapton:
"Okay, so it's clear that this Burst was used on Fresh Cream, but why was it not used again in the rest of Cream's short-lived career? In trying to understand these facts for myself, I traced the path this Burst took to New York City, 1967, where Eric and Cream were at the time. The road crew dropped the Fresh Cream/Summers Burst, and the headstock broke off. They then brought it to Dan Armstrong to have it repaired. He in turn, gave it to the best luthier in New York City, for whom no job was impossible. His name is Matt Umanov. Matt was very young when he discovered his talent for luthiery. The combination of his skills and talent were brought to the attention of world-class guitar players in need of the best sounding instruments. He quickly gained the reputation as the go-to guy in the New York area for restoration and repair of pre-war to current musical instruments. So Matt was clearly the guy to turn to in this situation.
So here's where the story gets interesting. When Dan Armstrong asked Matt to take up the challenge and repair the broken headstock, Matt realised at the time that the headstock could no longer be grafted back on to the guitar, due to the severity of the break. He then asked Dan if he could get creative with this project, to which Dan gave his approval. With Matt's history of passion and appreciation for pre-war Gibson mandolins, he thought it would be cool to replace the headstock with a Gibson F4 mandolin headstock. And so it was to be."
The article ends at this point and doesn't give any further details on what happened after the repair, and why or when Clapton didn't use the guitar any more after the repair, however the photos in the book show details of the headstock. It is as described by Drew a flourished F4-mandolin styled headstock, with Eric Clapton inlayed instead of the Gibson Logo and a weird looking inlay, which seems to be a shilouette of a female head wearing a laurel wreath or crown, like some design one would find on an old metal coin. There is also a high resolution picture of the figuring on the top on this guitar, next to the black and white picture of Andy Summers playing it, and the grain matches up pretty well, not to mention open coil double black PAFs as Clapton used to play it.
Honestly, I find the headstock weird and that might be a reason that Eric let it go, but the Burst itself is incredible. Crazy figuring, intense tomato soup colouring and of course highest provenance.
Great post man! Vic DaPra owes you a Christmas ham because I'm buying that book series! Thanks again for the info!
@@kravitz1999 👍
Well, that's an interesting story, but some of the pictures I've seen of Eric playing the guitar quite obviously show a (poorly) repaired Les Paul headstock break, the headstock having the usual open-book top, "Les Paul Model" and Gibson logo.
Very enjoyable video. Do you have any updates on the origins of this guitar? Has a follow up video been made? Thanks!
The Bridge wrapping question is like the which is the heaviest a pound of Lead or a pound of Feathers one.Tension is tension, it will be the same wrapped around or run through the tailpiece. The Action may be affected but the tension will be the same.
That said i have a DC jnr that's top wrapped but it does have a Molita on it. The wiring is kind of 50's fashion but it's hardly military grade. Had to come back and watch again, great show. It has occured to me that maybe Eric could tell if it was his stolen Guitar? The serial number has clearly been removed. To play Devils advocate wouldn't someone with a stolen item remove the serial number or obvious identifying marks? I suppose God s to busy to be bothered? It may be worth asking though?
The owners like "No, no what if he takes a shine to it and wants it, balls to that" lol.
Thanks Bob and Ramon. Fascinating!!! Thanks for showing that off (and always good to see the 58) and for the forensic deep dive.
On the subject of headstock breaks and repairs, Michael Schenker reckoned that when he had his Flying V repaired it sounded better than before. As I recall, he said that may be due to having a steel rod inserted to reinforce the repair.
Thieves have tend to remove serial numbers, just sayin'.
Yes and overspray them no kidding this guitar is STOLEN and they know it
which makes me wonder about why they would do this to begin with nothing worse on earth then a thief.. except maybe someone holding a stolen guitar back and I have no respect for either one lower then snake shit.........
Not necessarily, Paul Kossoff's '59 has no serial number because the headstock break was replaced with a remade headstock, not the original one - so no serial number.
@@jimherleva4541 Now you mention it, didn't Kossoff get a 58 Burst from Clapton?
@@fongy200 yes the dark burst that Paul Rodgers after kossoffs death owned until 2000ish and is now owned by a private collector as far as I know
Top-wrapping should decrease the _downward_ force of the strings from force vectors as the break-angle decreases, no? Whether that makes any difference to the feel of the strings or the body resonance they pick up through the bridge, I don't know. I top-wrap. And it's satisfying to have the tailpiece screwed down flat. But I don't claim it makes any difference to feel or tone. I do it because it's kind of fun. Which is a damn good reason.
thecaveofthedead Completely agree with you on this. Each to their own 👍
17:45 Topwrapping: the tension doesn't change but the friction of the string against the saddles does (it's decreased). This makes for easier bendings, vibrato, etc. as the string is more free to move.
Bending the strings resulting in higher pitch is not due to the string moving or stretching, bending the strings increases the tension between two points, just as if you were tightening the tuners, not to mention if the strings were actually moving on the saddles the strings would break frequently
Just seen this (better late than never) & it reminds me of another '59 thats been hidden within the M25 since the 1970s. My brothers one is up for sale at Dore & Rees in March 2022.
So, as far as you know, were there ANY Les Paul classic shapes made in '61?
No. Not even Customs. It wouldn't have made sense even if we didn't know that for a fact. They were actively marketing the SG as the Gibson Les Paul Model. It would have been hopelessly confusing if they were also putting out the original Les Paul form at the same time.
@@thecaveofthedead There is one known custom and one burst I believe. The Gibson 61 ledgers start with LP and then go to 'LP new' as I recall. This is from memory so I'm open to be corrected. Gibson often overlapped old and new models. There are P90 Goldtops well into the humbucker years. Firebirds were a complete jumble too. Guitars were not completed in a day. Probably over weeks with the curing time for non plasticised nitro. New models would be being made while racks of old ones would still be curing or being set up.
There’s still a C+A in Amsterdam:
Damrak 79, 1012 LM Amsterdam, Netherlands
Any reason for this being taken down earlier? It happened as I was watching it lol
I made some dumb edits!
My favorite youtube show keeps getting better!! Great stuff Bob and Ramon :)
Thanks
15:40 will you make a vid detailing the bridge fix you performed? Even just saying what you did would be great 👏👏
What I wish you would have commented on is if the original neck PAF pickup was all white covered..that would put it towards the Beano Burst corner I think. Cool video. Be great to know what happened to that guitar.
The real reason to top wrap is related to the fact that some set ups cause the strings to sit on the edge of the bridge due to the angle coming out of the tail piece. The angle plus that tension / friction against the bridge will cause the string to snap at that point of contact. So if you don't want to raise your tail piece, then top wrap is your next option. Case closed.
I have CNA on my underpants. Are they worth a lot in the vintage market?
@6:18 C&A were French, but with stores in the UK.
Too many "may bees", could bees, and "might bees" in this video.
Definitely maybe
& jelly babies.
what happened to this guitar any 2022 year ender updates? cheers!
I'll let you know any new info I promise.
Were any further findings made on this Les Paul as of 2023?
the summers burst does not seem to have the les paul model silk screen either.
That's true
Did the blacklight pick up anything of the serial number?
Hi David - From what I remember - no it did not
@@TheGuitarShow did you try the pencil trick where you put a piece of paper over what you are trying to see
and take a pencil and use the side of the graphite point of the to rub on the paper.
it there is any indentation left at all this will definitely show what was there.
Great and interesting video. Im convinced that a lot of the people that are negative or insulting in the comments haven't even watched the whole video. It seems to be the curse of the interweb
Great stuff, I enjoyed this. Thanks
If this can be proven to be a stolen Clapton guitar, then under UK law it belongs to him still. AFAIK there is no statue of limitations on theft (or anything else for that matter) in the UK, so even though it was 50 plus years ago it doesn’t matter. Of course, proving it would be next to impossible probably. Top wrap for me all day long by the way.
How do you Clapton didn’t sell it a baggie of H ? I don’t think Clapton was known for being too lucid back then. He sometimes performed while playing on his back.
My Les-Paul is real 1959 and the 1960's some were mixed 60 body,59 necks. Nice guitar my friends, ps i had a 59 les paul jr Tobbaco sunburst and i had it leaning against my white Marshall stack and it fell over and the headstock broke off. cause back in the 70s my Jr was purchased from my dads guitar player and i had it fixed by one of the only certified luthers and amp repairs in Chicago, Il ps i still have my flame top 59 that my dad gave me when i was seven........
Eric described it as having a badly scratched back, but a big clue would have been the neck pick up, it had white bobbins and that wasn't mentioned.
Paul Evans. And cigarette burns on the front.
Bobbins we’re black👍
2 more huge telltale signs you didn't go into - the neck tenon on the tomato soup 60 Les Pauls (later 1960) were a short cut off tenon as opposed to a 59 with the long tenon. That would instantly tell you the year or at least give you a better idea. Also the original neck pickup bobbin colour as the tomato soup 60 would only be black coils as on the summer's/fresh cream burst.
On late 1960 Les Pauls, the reflector knobs would also be there as on the summer's guitar, but as the pots have been messed with and one changed, it'd be feasible that the original knobs were also changed.
They state, later on in the comments section, that both bobbins are Black👍
So greatness in this chanel, i hace a Traditional Pro, 2011 not even on the same leage of a 59 or 60 but man do i love everything about Les Paul guitars, good job here.
Thanks Atio
It's my understanding that top wrapping does two things. One it shortens the working or overall, length of the string which lessens the tension. The shorter the scale the less tension required to tune it to pitch. I like mini guitars for that reason, arthritis and all. Secondly you drive the studs deeper into the body which increases the resonance and the sustain.
bgarrison67 Surely top wrapping lengthens the string. Only a bit, but every little helps to give more tone. That's why a Grand Piano is a lot louder and has more sustain than a honky tonk upright..
I agree about the studs though, more mass = better sustain also.
I top wrapped mine for the first time last string change and decked out the tailpiece and it very noticeably gained more sustain
I top wrap my Gibsons so that the strings do not catch on the back of the bridge, which can happen if an individual saddle is screwed forward.
Raising the stopbar adjusts the string tension to the player's desire. That's what it's for. A wraparound sets the angle to the equivalent of raising the stopbar to its higher level thus lessening the string tension. If you bend strings you can feel the difference straight away.
People were making sunbursts out of gold tops in 1972 in San Francisco Bay Area. I watched one being created at a shop by a luthier that worked on my D41. Later they showed me the finished product and let me play it. Quite nice and with a beautiful curly ribbon top after the finish was removed. Thus an $800 dollar Les Paul became $2,000+. My stock white 25th anniversary LP went with me to London and fetched $2,500 in 76. Cost with case in SF at the time new with heavy bargaining was $550 out the door. I immediately bought another for the same upon return and traded it for a 1961 Byrdland. The sunbursts were a tribute to Beano which was revered as well back then.
i didnt see any extra tuner holes or evidence of being filled and why would there be indentations in the serial number when its inked? just curious, have to see it i guess
Not the "Summers burst", that guitar was in Dick Ziff's collection for a time. It was repaired with a mandolin headstock. There are a few pictures of it with Ziff's other Les Pauls. In fact, the pictures were used by Ed King in order to find his "Red Eye" LP, which was in Ziff's hands too.
For real? Will it be available to see through a Google search or do you have links?
This is correct. The mandolin headstock story of the Summers Burst is detailed - with photos - in one of Vic DaPra's "Burst Believers" books. I seem to remember Dan Erlewine being involved in the project, or perhaps Dan Armstrong - I can't recall exactly. Regardless, the guitar in this video is not the Summers Burst - unless it's had another, subsequent repair (which might explain the smaller headstock).
@@adamwhite2329 thanks for the info! I couldn't find a photo of the Ziff collection with a guitar I recognised as the summer's burst and unfortunately I don't own that book! Cool info though, it's interesting where these guitars end up. I remember reading an interview with Eric Clapton from the 60s talking about using a new Les Paul (meaning SG I think) because even though the old 1958 Les Pauls sound better, they warp and break. Also interesting how at the time his SG was the more solid reliable guitar and his 60 summers burst broke, yet now we think of the SG as a more fragile guitar than any Les Paul.
@@adamwhite2329 yes. A friend of mine is a collaborator in the "Burst Believers" books and he showed me the photos.
Awesome history, thank you :)
There probably wouldn't have had as many neck breakages back in the day if they had good strap locks and locking Hercules style guitar stands...
And much less drugs, lol
Wonderful video guys, very well done, so refreshing to not have another 'gear' video. Question: The neck pickup (that isnt working) what colour are the bobbins ?
black
Top wrapping the bridge reduces the break angle and string tension over the neck. As a result you can the use heavier strings...
Good point. I top-wrap my '69 LP Custom, but only because it has a rather steep neck angle and the ABR-1 bridge is fairly high off the body. Even when top-wrapping it there is still a decent break angle, so I do that in order to drop the stop tailpiece to the body.
Great to see Bob again! You know its going to be a good video if he's getting some toys out the family crypt.
I owned a 1967 345 that had been shipped from USA about 2000. The guitar had been professionally lacquered we don’t know when but probably 1970s. This was commonly done when guitars were gigged to protect the finish. Sometimes done by Gibson to order. The colour was quite similar in the way it held onto its red colour due to the lacquer. Black light did look a bit cloudy.
Wow, can u describe in detail how to get those tone
Ill try to do a video on the tone from Cream's first album
@@TheGuitarShow thx
Just read an article by Tony Bacon where he states that the summers burst is owned by musician and collector Drew Berlin?
The original bridge may have started collapseing top wrapping helps those old ABR1 bridges from collapseing.
Apparently Clapton knows the whereabouts of the beano burst and says it’s still in London.as to why he never pursued it is another matter
Wonderful thank you both
Great show and like everybody else I’m a huge Clapton fan And yes a lot of people are top wrapping The stop bar on my les Paul I just Raised The stopbar and it plays like butter it makes bending a lot easier A lot of people make the mistake of letting the strings hit the back of the bridge before they hit the saddles that’s hard on your strings and the guitar does not play as easy as it should
Maybe I missed this but what bobbins did the original neck PAF have? Were they cream or black?
Hi Mitch - they were black
@@TheGuitarShow Noted, thank you! Had to watch this again last night because of just how fascinating it is.
And to think, what and who that guitar possibly saw in the 60’s....
Thank you again. Have a great day!
I've got a 1967 ES -175 with a headstock repair. I noticed immediately that it sounded better with the repair.
ah thats brilliant - yes Ive heard this a lot from owners of repaired guitars
'sounds like the pickup's been in the guitar for a long time'!!!!??? Ahhh yes, that bedded in pickup tone!
Thanks 👍👍👍
That was a great fun walk through one of the greats,
Thanks
Do you recall Bob's signal chain during the final playout going through that deliciously rusty looking back pu (?) Thanx for a great vid BTW
Bob?
@@TheGuitarShow Yes, he was playing the 'mystery' guitar through the back pu and getting a particularly bitching tone during the final moments of the vid...
Hi Ramon... hope things is cool wit'choo...
19:45 You mean if you lay out £200k for a Les Paul you still have to practice?
So what’s the latest, is there any other videos on this guitar?
I love these pair, it’s like a caricature of vintage guitar collectors. I’d love to know what wine would pair best with the tomato souper
The original owners Whine ?
Love these shows, damn that 10 years after spoonful cover is amazing, love that era.
Thank you
The Matthew Scott channel on this website is currently featuring him in the process of "authenticating" a supposed 1958 Gibson Les Paul that he recently purchased from one of the retail chain store locations owned by the American charity organization Goodwill. He also owns a late 1950's Fender Mary Kay Stratocaster as well as a 55' or 56' Stratocaster burst.
Lol What did he expect a real one ? From Goodwill in 2020 come on..
There is a burst in my tiny town right now and they claim its real only its a fake and I told them who built it and they still claim its real but its not for sale of course till the right sucker walks in and loses their ass on it..
its as fake as Barak Obama and they just refuse to admit it.....
Top wrapping only changes the break angle coming off the tailpiece. Sometimes the string will rest on the corner of the bridge, depending on the neck angle. String length is also slightly lengthened and reduces tension.
I've heard at least two great players who have said that a repair head stock is stronger and makes the guitar resonate louder, one Jimmy Page, and Kirt Hammett, as well as a few hot shot hired guns. If its done right its a chance to get a great deal on a R9.
Was the fretboard wood Brazilian Rosewood on pre 60's and possibly Indian rosewood when reintroduced in 69 ?.
Fantastic Show as always guys.Awesome playing and tone Ramon.What pedals and amps are you playing through? Cheers from Canada.
Did the Mate that owns this sell it or keep it??
"We're going to deep geekery, here..." A man after my own heart.
BRAVO! Interesting video!
Thank you! Cheers!
The craic between Bob and you is great. Funny and smart guy 🎸 🔥
Thanks bro
Awesome guitar, honestly it could be Lil Waynes guitar(not that he could play it) but honestly it doesnt matter cause that is a beautiful old Les Paul in a somewhat original state. Love your videos and keep up the investigation, even if it isn't Eric's guitar you might just find that holy grail.
Is there any way it could be a conversion?
Theres a video on youtube of a guy playing 5 reissues, and an original '60.....The guy is playing over Id Rather Go Blind with all of them.....The '60, looks. sounds, and in my opinion theres a chance its the Beano burst....Call it a hunch....lol
I want to play guitar just like the guy on the left he's awesome!
You're very welcome
"Deep geekery" ha ha y'all are the best... and
yes, it took players and builders alike 70 odd years to make a tunable nut where all but the very worst tuners work just fine...
loving this
I agree about the tail stop bar but i think the break angle at that area of the guitar is far better than the headstock, the break angle on a Gibson headstock is extreme, i use string butlers on mine and find it works in terms of holding tune, they even keep the old Klusons stable and aids string retention.
I would bet that the appearance of the guitar was slightly modified to be harder to recognize. Great video guys, as always!
Fascinating theories and beautiful old guitar that was some fine playing too!