As a dwarf player, I don’t know why I watched 3 hours about magic, seems like some elf nonsense. But I had a good time watching it! Great job guys, looking forward to more deep dives!
This is the first Warhammer product I’ve ever bought. I’m putting together a force for a local escalation league to help learn the rules so this is a big help.
I watch your videos more than once... sometimes more than three times! I love your videos! I can listen to you geeks talk-Hammer all day, over and over again! Keep up the great work!
Every deep dive needs that sound, put a smile on my face😂. Solid again lads. I commute home at the weekends and always listen to you guys for the 3 1/2 hours drive! Gutted I couldn't come to the opening at HQ as I only live 30 mins away but daughter was sick so couldn't make it. Keep up the great work lads, we are all still learning but it's fun doing it together, don't change a thing lads.
Indeed, you need no engagement bait, ngl, i started watching this to make an informed decision on my sorcerers' lores, staid for the mathgammer, fun and vibes, built my last chosennas you were talking about the lores I can't even take and still learned a lot about what I'll be up against
Keep in mind the Phantasmagoria only triggers at the end of the enemies movement. So they have a chance to dispel, and move away from it before it even can make them Impetuous or Panic (and Impetuous can't even trigger turn one).
This was what I was coming here to say. Even if you plop it down turn one and the trigger it by moving, they don't really suffer any ill effects from impetuous unless we circle all the way around to their turn again AND they fail to dispel it a second time.
I'm in love with the idea of a Beastlord with Mangelder, his bestigors having the Manbane standard, and that demonology spell for potentially -5 leadership.
1:22:15 Here you say that you get to pick spells if you roll doubles? This isn't true though right? It just says you re-roll duplicate results. I think the picking on a double is from another edition. Also at 14:30 you say the same thing? You both seem very sure so I'm confused if I've missed something.
That was my read from the rules as well. Great video deep dive into Magic though! Lot is new, so important to dump out all the other editions of Warhammer Fantasy from the brain. 😅
I could not think of what one might do with Hammerhand unless playing Warriors of Chaos or a treeman, but if I am understanding Shield of the Lady for the Handmaidens of Bretonnia, it would mean they can be in the rear of the unit safe but still cast Hammerhand as if still in the front fighting rank. This could be very useful for a level 1 or 2 Damsel.
I think the value of a lot of these Lores is increased by the Lore Familiar magic item which lets you choose your spells, especially ones like Elementalisim which have only a couple really good spells which if you can guarantee you can do a lot of list building around.
What an epic video. Love your work lads! You both have excellent chemistry feeding off each other, keep it up! I’m working on my Warriors of Chaos list and this video really helped in deciding how to flesh it out (taking more than one wizards now😂😂😂)
Ok, now I *NEED* some people with lots of O&G make a narrative game, both using O&G, both taking as many wizards as possible and the entire battle turning into a place with giant godfeet of magic stomping all over the field xD
I genuinely tried this my first game with two wizards. The fickle foot of Gork was more interested in stomping me than the bretonnians, but man it was worth it.
So many cool spells to try but they’re gonna be difficult to learn. If only GW made a set of reference cards we could readily buy in shops or on their website.
And even if you did get a chance to pre-order, if you live in the East Coast USA, you couldn't get them anyway because the snow storms delayed all of the shipments to stores.
The major secondary benefit of dispel magic from my pov is that it makes casting harder to proc in the first place therefore you don't have to risk dispells as often Also it would seem you can cast shield of saphery first and then cast another enchantment spell on the same unit since it only states it gets rid of ones cast previously Also I see those devious cogs turning in your mind Rob with regards to vortex spam ;P It was some of the first magical shenanigans I thought of as well Sisters of the thorn pillars of fire spam seems like a ridiculous standoff tactic since you can kite the casters away from potential dispels and keep crisping units whilst hampering their charges Wind blast is also a contender for me since you can utilize the poisoned javelins at 12" and follow up with a wind blast to widen the distance even more, seems like a bit more reliable damage but less control so a combination of the 2 would probably be ideal The fact that they are a special choice means that you can run 7 of them (@2k) as well which is just plain ridiculous since they all get to CHOOSE their spells BEFORE DEPLOYMENT from both battle magic and elementalism... the ultimate utility unit imho
Can you choose a fated dispel if you have a wizard available? Or is the wording that you only get a fated one if your wizard cannot dispel for whatever reason?
You can do a fated dispell once per turn for whatever reason you like. If you're out of range, don't have a wizard, or perhaps don't want to risk a Miscast.
Absolutely love the deep dive alarm 😂 3 hours is nearly enough square based for a week.. Don't kill yourselves chasing more but anything you put out I'll keep clicking it O7
Waaagh! magic is without a doubt THE most chaotic magic there is and man does it look like that now more than ever. Thanks again Rob and Val for all the work you guys do, so much. Cheers!
Someone's gotta correct me if I'm wrong. From the Sister's of the Thorn rules, their Deepwood Coven ability states that they know one spell "chosen by their controlling player before armies are deployed." That reads that it's not randomly generated. If so, that's crazy-useful to guarantee you have Curse of Arrow Attraction.
This was great. Listened on Spotify so just wanted to leave a comment for the algorithm so here's my top 58 albums of last year 58. Asagraum - Veil of Death, Ruptured 57. Ghosts of Atlantis - Riddles of the Sycophants 56. Issa - Lights of Japan 55. Tradtorned - Into The Void 54. Sophie Lloyd - SHRED vol. 1 53. Turmion Kätilöt - Omen 52. Solence - Hope Is A Cult 51. Void Chapter - humAnIty 50. Ronnie Romero - Raised on Heavy Radio 49. Warmen - Here For None 48. Craving - Call of the Sirens 47. Draconicon - Pestilence 46. George Lynch & Jeff Pilson - Heavy Hitters II 45. Metallica - 72 Seasons 44. Liv Sin - KaliYuga 43. Otep - The God Slayer 42. U.D.O. - Touchdown 41. Escape the Fate - Out of the Shadows 40. Twisted Rose - Cherry Tales 39. Conquer Divide - Slow Burn 38. Obituary - Dying of Everything 37. Self Deception - You Are Only As Sick As Your Secrets 36. Delain - Dark Waters 35. Phantom Elite - Blue Blood 34. Powerwolf - Interludium 33. Babymetal - The Other One 32. Otherwise - Gawdzillionaire 31. Lyrre - Not All Who Dream Are Asleep 30. Red Cain - NÄE'BLISS 29. 3Teeth - EndEx 28. Bezerker Legion - Chaos will Reign 27. Elysion - Bring Out Your Dead 26. Burning Witches - The Dark Tower 25. Redhook - Postcards From A Living Hell 24. In This Moment - GODMODE 23. Steve Morton - Technically Metal 22. Aortha - Monolit 21. When Plagues Collide - Chaotic Upheaval 20. Manntra - War of the Heathens 19. Dog Eat Dog - Free Radicals 18. Avatar - Dance Devil Dance 17. Beyond the Black - Beyond the Black 16. Lordi - Screem Writers Guild 15. Angus McSix - and the Sword of Power 14. Ignea - Dreams of Lands Unseen 13. Danko Jones - Electric Sounds 12. Prognostic - Chaotic Upheaval 11. Cobra Spell - 666 10. Edge of Paradise - Hologram 9. The Unslain - Descending 8. HAWXX - Earth, Spit, Blood and Bones 7. Nacarbide - The Identity of Discord 6. Icon of Sin - Legends 5. Butcher Babies - Eye For An Eye... 4. Tulip - The Perpetual Dream 3. Lovebites - Judgment Day 2. Daedric - Mortal 1. Butcher Babies - ... 'Til The World's Blind
Well I'm going to give this a listen while I support some STLs for spicing up my units in my Vampire counts army.. looking good, Witches in the wood should look super cool.
One thing I realized for assailant spells is that if you have higher Initiative than your opponent, you can wipe out their front line and prevent them from hitting back. So hammerhand is brutal vs dwarfs let's say, because you take away their heavy armor and take down several front rank models with great weapons before they get to hit you
About Phantasmagoria, I am guessing there will be discussions about enemy units that didnt move but are in range of the template. The casting player will say they endet their movement inside and the defending player will say "i didnt end any move since i didnt move".
Since you asked for comments on drain magic, I think it's a very weak effect. As Rob noticed, it's a remains in play, which means you opponent will get another free chance to dispel it, this time at it's base value, before they cast any spells. At 9+ that's trivial for a level 4 and pretty easy for even a level 2. Even if it's not dispelled it's quite weak. Unless you have low level wizards attempting high difficulty spells the +2 casting value requirement will mostly be irrelevant. A level 4 doesn't really care if it needs to roll a 6 instead of 4, on 2d6 since it's aiming for much higher than that or it will be easily dispelled. So for this spell to have any impact at all you need to: 1 Successfully cast it. 2 Opponent fail to dispel it 3 Opponent fail to dispel it at it's base value on their turn 4 Opponent roll exactly 1 or 2 below the new modified casting value That's an absurd requirement. Overall a very disappointing signature. Should have been -2 to the opponents casting roll, and lasts until your next start of turn sub phase instead of remains in play.
It's cast on a 9, you have to beat the casting value to dispel, so the dispel on their turn needs a 10+. That's pretty easy for a lvl 4 to beat, but pretty good against multiple lower level casters who are failing more than they succeed, and that's where the +2 casting value is also at its most effective. Certainly a very matchup dependent spell, but does not seem bad.
@@mikereed4594 That's true, good point. Yeah still quite easy for a level 4 but a little bit harder than I'd thought. I agree it's decent against multiple low level casters. It's just a shame that that's already when you're dispelling most enemy spells with your level 4. You'd really want drain magic to help when you're evenly matched or even behind (like against Chaos +6 to cast). But drain magic will do basically nothing there.
It feels like RAI with the "all other X previously cast on any of the affected models immediately expire." is to thwart stacking the effect of the spell with others - but RAW it just changes the order in which you try to cast your enchantments / hexes, no?
Yes exactly. Because that condition was not consistently applied it sure seems that it can be gotten around by certain lores. This feels like something that might be cleaned up with errata in the future.
Where do i need to go in the video to hear about Bound Spells? And can units such as doomfire warlocks attempt to dispel? And would they count as between lvl 0 and lvl 2 depending on unit strength similar to when casting their bound spell? I am also curious if their champion can take Arcane magic items.
I figure this will be a big rules as intended game rather than rules as worded, BUT the rules for re-rolls say you can never re-roll a die unless specifically stated otherwise, and when you roll a duplicate for generating spells you re-roll the dice but it does not specify you re-roll until you don't have duplicates. If you get duplicates, do you think you have to ditch the dupes to get sig spells or re-roll until you have 4 different spells and then ditch for sigs?
Id only Steed of Shadows could be cast before the charge phase, an 8x3 brick of say, chosen, or Knights of the Realm on foot. A 13-18 inch charge range. It’s still a fantastic spell though, but damn, I’d take it start of charge phase on an 11+!
Also, Daemonic Vessels, you guys kept talking about it buffing units, but it clearly says “self”, caster and mount only. The units don’t get +1 Str, attacks, and AP1. Only ever the caster.
Only other thing you guys seem to be missing is that most remain in play spells, like Drain Magic, templates, and buffs and hexes can be dispelled each round for its casting value. As it’s cast you need to beat the casters roll, but the next turn it’s dispelled at its value. Or that’s how I’ve seen it played in multiple places. Also, great work and great videos.
I think it makes sense to look only at them independently of the signature spells as well, because every army except Empire has better signature spells available than most of the lore-based ones (Beastmen and Tzeentch both have arguably better missiles available than the Daemonology one, for example). How likely you are to roll into multiple spells you don't want matters a lot, especially for a level 4. ... For example, Elementalism (Likely one of the better overall lores): While it might have a weak signature spell, it has 4-5 good/very good rollable spells, with one of the best conveyance spells, a fantastic hex (which helps with the often difficult to get armour penetration), a very good magic missile, an enchantment spell that is excellent at deterring/weakening charges (Which pairs particularly well with the conveyance spell to slap an anvil in a perfect position), and a pretty good vortex (that doesn't hit your own units even if it ends up going through them with its random movement). ...While none of the spells have that big hammer combat swing like high/dark/daemonology, except sort of plague of rust, there's redundancy with multiple spells to accomplish similar goals of battlefield control through moving units or hindering the opponent's charges to make it easier to get what you want out of the lore. ... ...On Phantasmagoria: I think this spell is being overrated. Of course it has the potential to be ridiculously powerful and win a game if you get the first turn and it doesn't get dispelled, and then some units end up fleeing or FBIGO, but it's also highly situational, and only does that against armies where the panic tests have a reasonable chance of causing enemy units to flee or FBIGO. ...- It also does nothing until a unit has completed their movement in range, so your opponent may have 3 chances to dispel it before it does anything (On cast, and then twice during their strategy phase on the following 2 turns). Units don't gain Impetuous until after they have passed the panic test that happens after they've completed movement, so you can't drop it, then give them a 4+ to force them to charge the chaff. ...- The best case scenario is that you can cast it turn 1 before your opponent even gets to move, and it affect units moving into it on your opponent's first turn, but your opponent has options to avoid it in that case, might have panic re-rolls, and might be able to get rid of it immediately. After that first turn or two, when units are already charging, it's likely doing nothing at all. If you don't get the first turn, and your opponent's army is able to charge turn 2, the spell might do nothing, as units can't panic when they're in combat. .... - Of the 4 lists that have access to Dark Magic, Phantasmagoria really only fits particularly well for the Empire. Chaos and Beastmen want to get into combat quickly, so a spell that has such a delayed impact is difficult to make use of. ....Empire, Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs and Skaven will all likely have access to dark magicand be able to make fairly good use of the spell though. .... .... On Drain Magic: It's not very useful against a level 4 wizard, and level 4s will be common. There's about a 73% chance to dispel, and if it's cast within range to have an effect, they get that opportunity to dispel. Sure, it's strong vs level 1/2 wizards, but I doubt you'll see a lot of those. .... ... On illusion magic: There's been a some hype about it, but... The spells are mostly very short range, which makes their use seem very limited, and 2 of the spells are combat oriented, while the other 2 useful spells can't be cast in combat. ... ... For both Infernal Gateway (Dark magic), and Hand of Mork, there are no restrictions on casting before/after movement, and they don't prevent the target from moving after they're cast, so they can really add a lot more mobility to the characters they're cast on than they look like. Infernal gateway cast onto a dragon can very easily set up for a perfect breath weapon and flank/rear charge the following turn. Overall, I'd probably rank the lores (not that any are bad. They all have their places and can be very strong): 1. High Magic - no bad spells to roll and Walk Between Worlds is completely absurd; making a unit ethereal for a full round is disgustingly powerful, and it can be cast while the wizard's unit is in combat. 2. Elementalism/WAAAGH magic - Only 1 bad rollable spell between them. 3. Battle Magic/Necromancy/Daemonology/Dark Magic - They each have their niche and a solid suite of strong spells to fill it. 5. Illusion Magic - It has a very specific niche, and isn't flexible at all with no way to affect combat aside from putting the wizard into combat directly and casting doppelganger with a good magic weapon. It practically requires the 30pt lore familiar, since 3 of the 1-6 spells are borderline useless, 1 requires a specific setup to get value from (having a good magic weapon), and the remaining 2 are potentially very strong, but short range.
Also! This was very 8th edition thinking because you can just buy lore mastery for a few points! Le sigh. I need to pin an errors and omissions comment.
There is something I am curious about that perhaps you guys will know the answer to: It's my understanding that Magic Resistance can stack with a ward save, can it also stack with different sources of magic resistance? i.e. the MR armor and Loadstones from the common magic items list? Also is the Magic Resistance of a character still conferred to the unit it joins? and can MR from multiple characters in a unit stack?
So completely off topic but what do we think about vampire counts getting some official love... I have noticed they appear on the map inside the rule book and there is a verse on page 120, which refers to the fanged beast..... Surely they are going to get some type of official support
As a dwarf player, I don’t know why I watched 3 hours about magic, seems like some elf nonsense. But I had a good time watching it! Great job guys, looking forward to more deep dives!
You've got to bring a good honest immovable grudgin anvil.
Know thy enemy.
I'm also a Dwarf player and I'm watching this to understand magic better so I can defeat magic.
Just another Elgi scheme... there will be no alliance with elves, only a reckoning!
This is the first Warhammer product I’ve ever bought. I’m putting together a force for a local escalation league to help learn the rules so this is a big help.
Every deep dive needs to start with the submarine noise. Arguably the double awoooga. Val’s fuck up just established a new precedent.
The double is serious
I wish I could live life with half the enthusiasm Val puts into his interpretive dance intros.
It breaths life into my day.
You have now been my favorite Old world channel! Keep em coming! :D
I watch your videos more than once... sometimes more than three times! I love your videos! I can listen to you geeks talk-Hammer all day, over and over again! Keep up the great work!
I think we're ok with this? Should we start using a safe word?
Love you Val! Thanks for coming on my show last week!
You two continue crush it!
The more of these you put out the more i'm tempted to give old world a try. Love watching you guys bounce off each other with such great enthusiasm ❤
Im new to the Old World and watching 😁 really excited to get in and ive chosen Dwarfs as my 1st army.
Enjoying the content, thanks
1 hour after dropping I've already enjoyed 3 hours of pure and unadulterated joy. #Squareblessed
Every deep dive needs that sound, put a smile on my face😂. Solid again lads. I commute home at the weekends and always listen to you guys for the 3 1/2 hours drive! Gutted I couldn't come to the opening at HQ as I only live 30 mins away but daughter was sick so couldn't make it. Keep up the great work lads, we are all still learning but it's fun doing it together, don't change a thing lads.
The deep dive intro, it made my day!
Indeed, you need no engagement bait, ngl, i started watching this to make an informed decision on my sorcerers' lores, staid for the mathgammer, fun and vibes, built my last chosennas you were talking about the lores I can't even take and still learned a lot about what I'll be up against
Guys... I am one minute in and no matter how informative the video will be, thank you for your chemistry and the way that you present stuff!
Our pleasure!
Third watch, still learning every time 👍
Deep dive on Lizards please… 🙏
Keep in mind the Phantasmagoria only triggers at the end of the enemies movement. So they have a chance to dispel, and move away from it before it even can make them Impetuous or Panic (and Impetuous can't even trigger turn one).
This was what I was coming here to say. Even if you plop it down turn one and the trigger it by moving, they don't really suffer any ill effects from impetuous unless we circle all the way around to their turn again AND they fail to dispel it a second time.
What's Magic is the way these two speak to my heart
I'm in love with the idea of a Beastlord with Mangelder, his bestigors having the Manbane standard, and that demonology spell for potentially -5 leadership.
By far the most entertaining warhammer duo. Keep up the great content!
You smashed this video out the park guys.
Information was great and going need to watch the video more than once lol.
Outstanding review and the best intro to date, cried with laughter - even more hilarious on twitch. Deep dive!!
This is so great. Thank you for all of the hard work.
Thank you too!
1:22:15 Here you say that you get to pick spells if you roll doubles? This isn't true though right? It just says you re-roll duplicate results. I think the picking on a double is from another edition. Also at 14:30 you say the same thing? You both seem very sure so I'm confused if I've missed something.
That was my read from the rules as well. Great video deep dive into Magic though! Lot is new, so important to dump out all the other editions of Warhammer Fantasy from the brain. 😅
Def the best Old World channel. Factions dives are awesome. Can't wait for the rest.
Id wish they kept that crazy shit on the miscast table. I need more of that gameplay in my life
YOu guys are killing it with all this amazing content! Keep it up!
3 days and I made it to the end. A deep dive *insert sound effect* indeed! Great stuff.
I could not think of what one might do with Hammerhand unless playing Warriors of Chaos or a treeman, but if I am understanding Shield of the Lady for the Handmaidens of Bretonnia, it would mean they can be in the rear of the unit safe but still cast Hammerhand as if still in the front fighting rank. This could be very useful for a level 1 or 2 Damsel.
@43:00 laser line plus the corner 45° arrow tool are indispensable
3 hours in and still a fan. What a thiccc, juicy review.
Brilliant stuff as always, fun and educational, really loved getting Val's initial impressions on alot of the spells
3 hours of lovely background awesomeness while I paint some models. I ended up starting Wood Elf army and I 100% blame your video :D
Nice. Looking forwards to the Empire overview you’ve said is coming soon and more deep dives with both of you.
This channel carry the hype for TOW so hard! Thank you guys!
I really appreciate coming across your channel, lots of useful vids for a new player
This video is as long as a lord of the rings movie and packs more content. I love it!
What an opening! love it!
Haha, tbis is the first time Ive watched on my TV instead of my phone.....let me tell you that the Val intro in 75 inch is something to behold.
If I am going to Canada this year, I need a Pint or five with Val. What a dude!
If anyone else did a 3hr hour video on magic it would have been dry as ….., great job guys.
I think the value of a lot of these Lores is increased by the Lore Familiar magic item which lets you choose your spells, especially ones like Elementalisim which have only a couple really good spells which if you can guarantee you can do a lot of list building around.
What an epic video. Love your work lads! You both have excellent chemistry feeding off each other, keep it up! I’m working on my Warriors of Chaos list and this video really helped in deciding how to flesh it out (taking more than one wizards now😂😂😂)
Another epic show. Loving this, keep it up guys.
ALL the magical vortices!
This podcast is giving me LIFE
That submarine intro was glorious!
Great stuff fellas - really excited to get some games in.
HAND OF DALE
That was a wonderful video. I’m excited to see how wild Bret can be with magic!
Loving all the content you guys are putting out! Keep up the good work
I like the part where we deep dive!
I survived till the end..I might have absorbed %10 of the content.. Worth
The casting odds table analysis is amazingly interesting. I thought that low level wizards were useless before seeing this!
Thanks gang! I’d never have been able to sit and read all those, so big shout out to Val and Rob for helping this poor ADHDer out
Do you need vision and line of sight of the enemy wizard to wizardly dispell
No, just need to be in range.
You guys are fantastic.
Ok, now I *NEED* some people with lots of O&G make a narrative game, both using O&G, both taking as many wizards as possible and the entire battle turning into a place with giant godfeet of magic stomping all over the field xD
I genuinely tried this my first game with two wizards. The fickle foot of Gork was more interested in stomping me than the bretonnians, but man it was worth it.
love the show, and Vals intro shenanigans makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Thanks for the deep dive :D
Phenomenal work thank you for what you're doing! Pretty sure you guys are why I'm getting into the old world!
I love Val's sound board shenanigans
Great video!
I'm going to have vietnam flashbacks every time someone casts Drain Magic now.
If one character has fireball as a bound spell, can another wizard still cast fireball in the same phase if they know it as one of their enate spells?
Yes absolutely.
@@SquareBasedOldWorld ty. If I build an empire lost I want to spam magic missiles and the 20pt wizard staff.
So many cool spells to try but they’re gonna be difficult to learn. If only GW made a set of reference cards we could readily buy in shops or on their website.
And even if you did get a chance to pre-order, if you live in the East Coast USA, you couldn't get them anyway because the snow storms delayed all of the shipments to stores.
Thanks for the video
This was so very helpful. Thanks!
Awesome video guys! Great Submarine intro 😂
The major secondary benefit of dispel magic from my pov is that it makes casting harder to proc in the first place therefore you don't have to risk dispells as often
Also it would seem you can cast shield of saphery first and then cast another enchantment spell on the same unit since it only states it gets rid of ones cast previously
Also I see those devious cogs turning in your mind Rob with regards to vortex spam ;P It was some of the first magical shenanigans I thought of as well
Sisters of the thorn pillars of fire spam seems like a ridiculous standoff tactic since you can kite the casters away from potential dispels and keep crisping units whilst hampering their charges
Wind blast is also a contender for me since you can utilize the poisoned javelins at 12" and follow up with a wind blast to widen the distance even more, seems like a bit more reliable damage but less control so a combination of the 2 would probably be ideal
The fact that they are a special choice means that you can run 7 of them (@2k) as well which is just plain ridiculous since they all get to CHOOSE their spells BEFORE DEPLOYMENT from both battle magic and elementalism... the ultimate utility unit imho
Can you choose a fated dispel if you have a wizard available? Or is the wording that you only get a fated one if your wizard cannot dispel for whatever reason?
You can do a fated dispell once per turn for whatever reason you like. If you're out of range, don't have a wizard, or perhaps don't want to risk a Miscast.
@@SquareBasedOldWorld nice, thanks for the reply. Loving what you're making dude! Hyped for the Old World!
Absolutely love the deep dive alarm 😂 3 hours is nearly enough square based for a week.. Don't kill yourselves chasing more but anything you put out I'll keep clicking it O7
We will keep making!! Thanks!!
@@SquareBasedOldWorld I made it out the other side! I want to see Biggles Dwarf vs the 8 Feet of Gork
Waaagh! magic is without a doubt THE most chaotic magic there is and man does it look like that now more than ever.
Thanks again Rob and Val for all the work you guys do, so much. Cheers!
Jesus christ these intros are the best
Someone's gotta correct me if I'm wrong. From the Sister's of the Thorn rules, their Deepwood Coven ability states that they know one spell "chosen by their controlling player before armies are deployed." That reads that it's not randomly generated. If so, that's crazy-useful to guarantee you have Curse of Arrow Attraction.
Or plague of rust....
Incredible video, lots of awesome info.
This was great. Listened on Spotify so just wanted to leave a comment for the algorithm so here's my top 58 albums of last year
58. Asagraum - Veil of Death, Ruptured
57. Ghosts of Atlantis - Riddles of the Sycophants
56. Issa - Lights of Japan
55. Tradtorned - Into The Void
54. Sophie Lloyd - SHRED vol. 1
53. Turmion Kätilöt - Omen
52. Solence - Hope Is A Cult
51. Void Chapter - humAnIty
50. Ronnie Romero - Raised on Heavy Radio
49. Warmen - Here For None
48. Craving - Call of the Sirens
47. Draconicon - Pestilence
46. George Lynch & Jeff Pilson - Heavy Hitters II
45. Metallica - 72 Seasons
44. Liv Sin - KaliYuga
43. Otep - The God Slayer
42. U.D.O. - Touchdown
41. Escape the Fate - Out of the Shadows
40. Twisted Rose - Cherry Tales
39. Conquer Divide - Slow Burn
38. Obituary - Dying of Everything
37. Self Deception - You Are Only As Sick As Your Secrets
36. Delain - Dark Waters
35. Phantom Elite - Blue Blood
34. Powerwolf - Interludium
33. Babymetal - The Other One
32. Otherwise - Gawdzillionaire
31. Lyrre - Not All Who Dream Are Asleep
30. Red Cain - NÄE'BLISS
29. 3Teeth - EndEx
28. Bezerker Legion - Chaos will Reign
27. Elysion - Bring Out Your Dead
26. Burning Witches - The Dark Tower
25. Redhook - Postcards From A Living Hell
24. In This Moment - GODMODE
23. Steve Morton - Technically Metal
22. Aortha - Monolit
21. When Plagues Collide - Chaotic Upheaval
20. Manntra - War of the Heathens
19. Dog Eat Dog - Free Radicals
18. Avatar - Dance Devil Dance
17. Beyond the Black - Beyond the Black
16. Lordi - Screem Writers Guild
15. Angus McSix - and the Sword of Power
14. Ignea - Dreams of Lands Unseen
13. Danko Jones - Electric Sounds
12. Prognostic - Chaotic Upheaval
11. Cobra Spell - 666
10. Edge of Paradise - Hologram
9. The Unslain - Descending
8. HAWXX - Earth, Spit, Blood and Bones
7. Nacarbide - The Identity of Discord
6. Icon of Sin - Legends
5. Butcher Babies - Eye For An Eye...
4. Tulip - The Perpetual Dream
3. Lovebites - Judgment Day
2. Daedric - Mortal
1. Butcher Babies - ... 'Til The World's Blind
Well I'm going to give this a listen while I support some STLs for spicing up my units in my Vampire counts army.. looking good, Witches in the wood should look super cool.
1:09:32 loremaster of hoeth casting hammerhand with ASF sounds good. He can do that in addition to chopping down fools with his greatsword.
Our lads are in essentially sweat shop conditions, pumping out these videos thick and fast for our mass consumption!! 💕
Grafting like champions
@@SquareBasedOldWorld like champions, musicians and standard bearers. Full command.
One thing I realized for assailant spells is that if you have higher Initiative than your opponent, you can wipe out their front line and prevent them from hitting back. So hammerhand is brutal vs dwarfs let's say, because you take away their heavy armor and take down several front rank models with great weapons before they get to hit you
Also, somehow this has made me even more excited to get my Night Gobbos on the table. It's going to be mayhem 😂
About Phantasmagoria, I am guessing there will be discussions about enemy units that didnt move but are in range of the template. The casting player will say they endet their movement inside and the defending player will say "i didnt end any move since i didnt move".
Since you asked for comments on drain magic, I think it's a very weak effect. As Rob noticed, it's a remains in play, which means you opponent will get another free chance to dispel it, this time at it's base value, before they cast any spells. At 9+ that's trivial for a level 4 and pretty easy for even a level 2. Even if it's not dispelled it's quite weak. Unless you have low level wizards attempting high difficulty spells the +2 casting value requirement will mostly be irrelevant. A level 4 doesn't really care if it needs to roll a 6 instead of 4, on 2d6 since it's aiming for much higher than that or it will be easily dispelled.
So for this spell to have any impact at all you need to:
1 Successfully cast it.
2 Opponent fail to dispel it
3 Opponent fail to dispel it at it's base value on their turn
4 Opponent roll exactly 1 or 2 below the new modified casting value
That's an absurd requirement. Overall a very disappointing signature. Should have been -2 to the opponents casting roll, and lasts until your next start of turn sub phase instead of remains in play.
It's cast on a 9, you have to beat the casting value to dispel, so the dispel on their turn needs a 10+. That's pretty easy for a lvl 4 to beat, but pretty good against multiple lower level casters who are failing more than they succeed, and that's where the +2 casting value is also at its most effective. Certainly a very matchup dependent spell, but does not seem bad.
@@mikereed4594 That's true, good point. Yeah still quite easy for a level 4 but a little bit harder than I'd thought.
I agree it's decent against multiple low level casters. It's just a shame that that's already when you're dispelling most enemy spells with your level 4. You'd really want drain magic to help when you're evenly matched or even behind (like against Chaos +6 to cast). But drain magic will do basically nothing there.
What about double ones on fated dispel? Who suffers miscast effects? If I missed the answer - sorry!
No one
With the move again spell: if I'm in marching columns and that spell is cast on me can I move back into combat formation?
It feels like RAI with the "all other X previously cast on any of the affected models immediately expire." is to thwart stacking the effect of the spell with others - but RAW it just changes the order in which you try to cast your enchantments / hexes, no?
Yes exactly. Because that condition was not consistently applied it sure seems that it can be gotten around by certain lores. This feels like something that might be cleaned up with errata in the future.
Wind Blast is a killer - you can push enemy units off the board instantly killing them or pushing them into dangerous terrain etc. Brutal
Best Old World content!
Enjoyed the deep doive
Where do i need to go in the video to hear about Bound Spells?
And can units such as doomfire warlocks attempt to dispel? And would they count as between lvl 0 and lvl 2 depending on unit strength similar to when casting their bound spell? I am also curious if their champion can take Arcane magic items.
Arcane Urgency on Fanatics? Would it work this way?
Not totally clear on order of operations but how does Shield of Saphery work, if it ends at the end of your turn, and can’t be cast into combat….
I watch every show multiple times to address the views/subscriber situation.
I watch them all a lot
I figure this will be a big rules as intended game rather than rules as worded, BUT the rules for re-rolls say you can never re-roll a die unless specifically stated otherwise, and when you roll a duplicate for generating spells you re-roll the dice but it does not specify you re-roll until you don't have duplicates. If you get duplicates, do you think you have to ditch the dupes to get sig spells or re-roll until you have 4 different spells and then ditch for sigs?
I think elementalisms earthen ramparts would be great on a unit with impetous that you do not want to charge with would that work?
I can't wait to see what bonuses to cast dark magic the Dark Elves get
Id only Steed of Shadows could be cast before the charge phase, an 8x3 brick of say, chosen, or Knights of the Realm on foot. A 13-18 inch charge range.
It’s still a fantastic spell though, but damn, I’d take it start of charge phase on an 11+!
Also, Daemonic Vessels, you guys kept talking about it buffing units, but it clearly says “self”, caster and mount only. The units don’t get +1 Str, attacks, and AP1. Only ever the caster.
Only other thing you guys seem to be missing is that most remain in play spells, like Drain Magic, templates, and buffs and hexes can be dispelled each round for its casting value. As it’s cast you need to beat the casters roll, but the next turn it’s dispelled at its value. Or that’s how I’ve seen it played in multiple places.
Also, great work and great videos.
I think it makes sense to look only at them independently of the signature spells as well, because every army except Empire has better signature spells available than most of the lore-based ones (Beastmen and Tzeentch both have arguably better missiles available than the Daemonology one, for example). How likely you are to roll into multiple spells you don't want matters a lot, especially for a level 4.
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For example, Elementalism (Likely one of the better overall lores): While it might have a weak signature spell, it has 4-5 good/very good rollable spells, with one of the best conveyance spells, a fantastic hex (which helps with the often difficult to get armour penetration), a very good magic missile, an enchantment spell that is excellent at deterring/weakening charges (Which pairs particularly well with the conveyance spell to slap an anvil in a perfect position), and a pretty good vortex (that doesn't hit your own units even if it ends up going through them with its random movement).
...While none of the spells have that big hammer combat swing like high/dark/daemonology, except sort of plague of rust, there's redundancy with multiple spells to accomplish similar goals of battlefield control through moving units or hindering the opponent's charges to make it easier to get what you want out of the lore.
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...On Phantasmagoria: I think this spell is being overrated. Of course it has the potential to be ridiculously powerful and win a game if you get the first turn and it doesn't get dispelled, and then some units end up fleeing or FBIGO, but it's also highly situational, and only does that against armies where the panic tests have a reasonable chance of causing enemy units to flee or FBIGO.
...- It also does nothing until a unit has completed their movement in range, so your opponent may have 3 chances to dispel it before it does anything (On cast, and then twice during their strategy phase on the following 2 turns). Units don't gain Impetuous until after they have passed the panic test that happens after they've completed movement, so you can't drop it, then give them a 4+ to force them to charge the chaff.
...- The best case scenario is that you can cast it turn 1 before your opponent even gets to move, and it affect units moving into it on your opponent's first turn, but your opponent has options to avoid it in that case, might have panic re-rolls, and might be able to get rid of it immediately. After that first turn or two, when units are already charging, it's likely doing nothing at all. If you don't get the first turn, and your opponent's army is able to charge turn 2, the spell might do nothing, as units can't panic when they're in combat.
.... - Of the 4 lists that have access to Dark Magic, Phantasmagoria really only fits particularly well for the Empire. Chaos and Beastmen want to get into combat quickly, so a spell that has such a delayed impact is difficult to make use of.
....Empire, Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs and Skaven will all likely have access to dark magicand be able to make fairly good use of the spell though.
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.... On Drain Magic: It's not very useful against a level 4 wizard, and level 4s will be common. There's about a 73% chance to dispel, and if it's cast within range to have an effect, they get that opportunity to dispel. Sure, it's strong vs level 1/2 wizards, but I doubt you'll see a lot of those.
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... On illusion magic: There's been a some hype about it, but... The spells are mostly very short range, which makes their use seem very limited, and 2 of the spells are combat oriented, while the other 2 useful spells can't be cast in combat.
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... For both Infernal Gateway (Dark magic), and Hand of Mork, there are no restrictions on casting before/after movement, and they don't prevent the target from moving after they're cast, so they can really add a lot more mobility to the characters they're cast on than they look like. Infernal gateway cast onto a dragon can very easily set up for a perfect breath weapon and flank/rear charge the following turn.
Overall, I'd probably rank the lores (not that any are bad. They all have their places and can be very strong):
1. High Magic - no bad spells to roll and Walk Between Worlds is completely absurd; making a unit ethereal for a full round is disgustingly powerful, and it can be cast while the wizard's unit is in combat.
2. Elementalism/WAAAGH magic - Only 1 bad rollable spell between them.
3. Battle Magic/Necromancy/Daemonology/Dark Magic - They each have their niche and a solid suite of strong spells to fill it.
5. Illusion Magic - It has a very specific niche, and isn't flexible at all with no way to affect combat aside from putting the wizard into combat directly and casting doppelganger with a good magic weapon. It practically requires the 30pt lore familiar, since 3 of the 1-6 spells are borderline useless, 1 requires a specific setup to get value from (having a good magic weapon), and the remaining 2 are potentially very strong, but short range.
Also! This was very 8th edition thinking because you can just buy lore mastery for a few points!
Le sigh. I need to pin an errors and omissions comment.
Big video. 🎉
So if you have 2 wizard with the same spell can you cast that spell twice?
You betcha
There is something I am curious about that perhaps you guys will know the answer to:
It's my understanding that Magic Resistance can stack with a ward save, can it also stack with different sources of magic resistance? i.e. the MR armor and Loadstones from the common magic items list?
Also is the Magic Resistance of a character still conferred to the unit it joins? and can MR from multiple characters in a unit stack?
So completely off topic but what do we think about vampire counts getting some official love... I have noticed they appear on the map inside the rule book and there is a verse on page 120, which refers to the fanged beast..... Surely they are going to get some type of official support
So can a Goblin Shaman on Arachnarok cast Hand of Gork or Mork on himself? And can it move again?