Limited premiums and player market are the two worst things you can take from WT. And I'd urge you to reconsider the system. Considering that the game has an entry fee, it feels disingenuous to fill it with FOMO just to make a quick buck, you have a chance to show your audience that you are not Gaijin entertainment and you can make a good mp sim without wanting to gut people of their time and money. If you want to limit the amount of prototypes, just add a "rare" and "prototype" clause to the vehicles. Both can't be a first spawn, which forces people to play the game and do it decently enough to get some points before spawning a rare vehicle and you can limit prototype vehicles to say 3 at any given time. If you manage to make large maps and large teams, say 60 v 60 with each player having 5 spawn tops, you'll have lineups of 3 standard vehicles 1 rare and one prototype if those are available.
@@ayuvir Hi! Our monetisation model does not 'gate people of their time and money', as the limited edition vehicles are not a necessary part of the gameplay experience. If a player wishes, they can completely ignore the market, and focus only standard and premium vehicles, which will be the vast majority of vehicles anyway. We're not keen on your second suggestion, as it severely limits the players freedom with their own vehicles, and also means they will only be seen when experienced or skilled crews are playing them, which is not realistic. The marketplace and limited edition vehicles does not serve a 'FOMO' purpose, it serves mainly to allow players to purchase limited edition vehicles that were released before they started playing, to allow players to trade up to a vehicle they want, and to ensure rare vehicles remain rare, all whilst giving players full autonomy over the vehicles they own, without significant restrictions and regulations.
@@AcesandArmour I can't believe you actually wrote what you did. Let me get the definition of FOMO: Fear of missing out is the feeling of apprehension that one is either not in the know about or missing out on information, events, experiences, or life decisions that could make one's life better. FOMO is also associated with a fear of regret, which may lead to concerns that one might miss an opportunity for social interaction, a novel experience, a memorable event, profitable investment or the comfort of those you love and who love you back. It is characterized by a desire to stay continually connected with what others are doing, and can be described as the fear that deciding not to participate is the wrong choice. FOMO could result from not knowing about a conversation, missing a TV show, not attending a wedding or party, or hearing that others have discovered a new restaurant. FOMO in recent years has been attributed to a number of negative psychological and behavioral symptoms. FOMO has increased in recent times due to advancements in technology. The moment you add something that is limited you are triggering a fear of missing out on said item let me give you practical examples: Recently Gaijin removed the Tu-7 from the shop. It was a vehicle I had my eyes on but wasn't planning on buying in the current sales. It was meant to be a side buy in case I'd be getting a low tier vehicle and they were both on sale. But with the announcement that it was going to be removed I bought it out of fear of missing out on a vehicle I had interest in. I did the same thing when they removed the Indian Vickers mk3 a few months ago. Weather your intentions are genuine or not, putting anything limited in the game triggers fear of missing out on people. You can't talk your way around this as it is a fact. Not only that but considering you expect people to buy more than one vehicle so they can sell it later in the market is really scummy. So now it's not just about getting the limited edition vehicle like say, the Sturmtiger. It's getting multiple, so that you can turn those potential 3 x 60$ into 3 x 90$ in the marketplace, if not more depending on scarcity. You guys are really communicating where your priorities are. I know game dev isn't cheap especially not stuff with detailed models such as these but I don't want any part in your greed and this is from someone who's into WT, Arma, HLL and DCS.
I'm all for the game, I wish everyone the best of luck on this, but I'm quite concerned with the mention of the sources being used for terminal ballistics. I'm alarmed by the idea of such algorithms and data being passed around, I strongly recommend the team check what is allowed and what should be parted away with. Look at what happened with Training and Wars Simulator (TWS) as soon as the F-35 stuff was mentioned in that public discord call, even talking about incorrectly managing this type of material can have dire consequences. I have zero links with the military and any agency, I'm just making sure you are aware this has the potential to be bad and you ensure it doesn't haunt the whole project.
I can just imagine a convoy of tanks coming back to a captured village and chilling for a bit talking about what enemies they saw while they wait for the ai commander to tell them to redeploy
shit like this happends and still happens in real life lol so when you think about it you probably would be mad at first but laugh about it later on just like irl
i am generally surprised that Red orchestra 2 or 1 was not mentioned for inspiration for this game, if you know what these games are, then im sure you love them, and want more people to know about it, despite their age, they are still so, so good, in all aspects
I'm not 100% on the monetization explanation. Sounds like a lot excuses meant to skirt around that they are using a FOMO based business practices when it comes to limited vehicles. Digital scarcity is inherently anti-consumer and should be avoided. I don't buy the argument that limiting access would be the sole method or even the most sensible method to limiting over representation of said vehicles in the game. Please make an honest game with an honest business model. This genre in particular sorely needs it.
@@alc2545 You can , but players can just as easily resort to using third party trading sites such as common practice in many if not most games with a player based market place. And even if that wasn't the case we're still talking about artificial scarcity here. A commodity that is finite will always according to market principle increase in price in relation to demand. If no new items are produced you will reach a point where the item is either astronomically expensive or simply unavailable for purchase. Hence FOMO. There will be people who are going to spend money they can't afford to spend on a digital item that is made scarce for arbitrary reasons. There are better and more consumer friendly ways to make these vehicles rare ingame, like imposing a limit on how many times you can spawn said vehicles per day ect. instead of making it a commodity and imposing yet another in a long row of shady business practices that we as consumers already have to endure in the gaming market.
I'm down with paying 15 bucks for this game. I'm down with paying for premium vehicles. I am not down with limited premiums and a player market. I get that it's immersion breaking seeing many Sturmtigers on the field but limiting their sale will only cause more people to buy them when they are available and punish future new players for not getting the game early.
Hey, it's important to note that a player market is not a key element to the gameplay experience, and players are free to ignore if they wish. Further, players are free to trade on the market to purchase limited edition vehicles that were released long before they started playing - that's the entire idea behind the market place, to allow players access to vehicles that were released before they joined.
@@AcesandArmour Yes and if the vehicle that I am a big fan of is being sold at 3000$ then tough shit yeah? You expect your costumers to buy multiple packs of a same vehicle so they can make money in your marketplace. It's immersion breaking to have multiple prototypes but if an entire team spawns tiger 1s and king tigers that's not immersion breaking to you since it doesn't make you any money. I'm out, you lost my interest and there's a few people here complaining about it too. You guys could do with better communication, telling people you're not being greedy while blatantly pulling greedy FOMO tactics is just the peak. I'm good being fucked over by Gaijin, don't need you guys on top of that.
@ There’s no reason to suggest a vehicle would ever sell for that much. Further ‘multiple packs of the same vehicle’? I’m not sure why you’re referring to - there will be no packs, and every account can only purchase a single copy of each vehicle. It is immersion breaking if an entire team spawns Tiger Is and King Tigers, which is why we will have measures against that too, which we actually talked about in this interview.
@@AcesandArmour Ok so you want people to buy limited vehicles and choose if they sell it on the market or keep it. You never specified so I assumed your idea was that people could flood the market. Let's say it's a really rare or good vehicle that 100% of the people keep. You are gating future players from getting this vehicle because it won't be on the player market or it'll be on the market for an exorbitant amount of money. So if there's systems preventing people from over spawning a vehicle why don't you implement a harsher system preventing people from overspawning prototypes and rare vehicles instead of limiting their sales and leaning into FOMO? You'll keep making money and people won't rely on a market, a system often used by people to scalp other people of extra money. As much as you people don't want to admit it your system leans into predatory tactics that both guarantee that you make a lot of money all while frustrating your players. I know this since I play the warthunder market myself. I've been wanting to get the Excelsior for years, it was being sold at 320 euro last year, it dipped to 170 thanks to a rerun of the vehicle on lootboxes. That is still far too much for a low tier vehicle that is essentially a faster churchill. I spent years wanting the KV-220 and the prototype tiger1, I bought them since their prices went down from 160 euro and 120 respectively to 50 and 40 sometime at the start of the year. Was I happy? yes and no, I just bought a high tier premium during the sales for 35 euro, I'm paying 15 and 5 euro more for novelty vehicles on mid tier that don't even come with premium time or premium currency. This is frustrating. You guys already ask for a small entry fee to your game, like it or not it is one barrier, and you're expecting to pull in people by offering a niche experience, full simulator, which has already a smaller audience and you're openly stating that using FOMO is good business practice because you want realism. Not only do I find this thought overly optimistic but I also find that it's exactly the sort of practice that I hate from your main competitor difference being that Warthunder is my comfort game and I don't mind spending on it since I play around 500 hours of it a year. I don't need another game that goes into the same practices especially from a dev team that came out of nowhere and may be overpromising, I've fallen for that trick a bunch of times already. It saddens me because I'm one of the few Warthunder sim players, I play GHPC, DCS, Arma and HLL. All of these games allow you to buy whatever you want at any given time bar WT while still being successful and I don't understand why you guys decided to take the absolutely worst aspect of Warthunder and put it in your game beyond greed.
@@ayuvir Fully agree I was really excited for this game but if theyre just going to lean into fomo im not interested anymore Id happily pay $60 for this if it had none of the microtransaction bs in it
17:28 my mind thought of the pz 4 here. It's not the very amazing killing machine wheraboos made it out to be, but it's a goddamn good tank for it's time, just the same as the m4, so it can definitely tip scales as they were somewhat cheap and pretty good
@Dom-um6gi the developers kinda don't want the game to be flooded with vehicles that were very unlikely to be seen in combat, plus talking to the devs myself it looks like you will always have the option to resell your purchased tank on the market
@@Discordscammedme... Yes, without a price cap. (As specified by the developers) I was lurking the discord channel and I did not get a good impression. It seemed more like a highschool fraternity to me, at least nothing I have any confidence in backing up with any of my money.
Let us know your thoughts below! We hope that this interview will help give you guys some insight and clarity! 😊
Limited premiums and player market are the two worst things you can take from WT. And I'd urge you to reconsider the system. Considering that the game has an entry fee, it feels disingenuous to fill it with FOMO just to make a quick buck, you have a chance to show your audience that you are not Gaijin entertainment and you can make a good mp sim without wanting to gut people of their time and money.
If you want to limit the amount of prototypes, just add a "rare" and "prototype" clause to the vehicles. Both can't be a first spawn, which forces people to play the game and do it decently enough to get some points before spawning a rare vehicle and you can limit prototype vehicles to say 3 at any given time. If you manage to make large maps and large teams, say 60 v 60 with each player having 5 spawn tops, you'll have lineups of 3 standard vehicles 1 rare and one prototype if those are available.
@@ayuvir Hi! Our monetisation model does not 'gate people of their time and money', as the limited edition vehicles are not a necessary part of the gameplay experience. If a player wishes, they can completely ignore the market, and focus only standard and premium vehicles, which will be the vast majority of vehicles anyway.
We're not keen on your second suggestion, as it severely limits the players freedom with their own vehicles, and also means they will only be seen when experienced or skilled crews are playing them, which is not realistic.
The marketplace and limited edition vehicles does not serve a 'FOMO' purpose, it serves mainly to allow players to purchase limited edition vehicles that were released before they started playing, to allow players to trade up to a vehicle they want, and to ensure rare vehicles remain rare, all whilst giving players full autonomy over the vehicles they own, without significant restrictions and regulations.
@@AcesandArmour I can't believe you actually wrote what you did. Let me get the definition of FOMO:
Fear of missing out is the feeling of apprehension that one is either not in the know about or missing out on information, events, experiences, or life decisions that could make one's life better. FOMO is also associated with a fear of regret, which may lead to concerns that one might miss an opportunity for social interaction, a novel experience, a memorable event, profitable investment or the comfort of those you love and who love you back. It is characterized by a desire to stay continually connected with what others are doing, and can be described as the fear that deciding not to participate is the wrong choice. FOMO could result from not knowing about a conversation, missing a TV show, not attending a wedding or party, or hearing that others have discovered a new restaurant. FOMO in recent years has been attributed to a number of negative psychological and behavioral symptoms. FOMO has increased in recent times due to advancements in technology.
The moment you add something that is limited you are triggering a fear of missing out on said item let me give you practical examples: Recently Gaijin removed the Tu-7 from the shop. It was a vehicle I had my eyes on but wasn't planning on buying in the current sales. It was meant to be a side buy in case I'd be getting a low tier vehicle and they were both on sale. But with the announcement that it was going to be removed I bought it out of fear of missing out on a vehicle I had interest in. I did the same thing when they removed the Indian Vickers mk3 a few months ago.
Weather your intentions are genuine or not, putting anything limited in the game triggers fear of missing out on people. You can't talk your way around this as it is a fact. Not only that but considering you expect people to buy more than one vehicle so they can sell it later in the market is really scummy.
So now it's not just about getting the limited edition vehicle like say, the Sturmtiger. It's getting multiple, so that you can turn those potential 3 x 60$ into 3 x 90$ in the marketplace, if not more depending on scarcity.
You guys are really communicating where your priorities are. I know game dev isn't cheap especially not stuff with detailed models such as these but I don't want any part in your greed and this is from someone who's into WT, Arma, HLL and DCS.
I'm all for the game, I wish everyone the best of luck on this, but I'm quite concerned with the mention of the sources being used for terminal ballistics. I'm alarmed by the idea of such algorithms and data being passed around, I strongly recommend the team check what is allowed and what should be parted away with.
Look at what happened with Training and Wars Simulator (TWS) as soon as the F-35 stuff was mentioned in that public discord call, even talking about incorrectly managing this type of material can have dire consequences. I have zero links with the military and any agency, I'm just making sure you are aware this has the potential to be bad and you ensure it doesn't haunt the whole project.
Very happy to have joined you for this interview!
Do you ever plan on adding the B1 Bis or Ter?
Wow I had no idea my microphone was so bad haha.
Thank you to anyone tuning in.
Roberto is a legend for covering so many area's to such depth.
I can just imagine a convoy of tanks coming back to a captured village and chilling for a bit talking about what enemies they saw while they wait for the ai commander to tell them to redeploy
shit like this happends and still happens in real life lol so when you think about it you probably would be mad at first but laugh about it later on just like irl
This is going to be an epic game.
how do you know? rn all we see are some renderers. there is not a single gameplay scene available, they can fuck this up on so many levels.
@@andir2185 Where would you like for me to send you the report which I have typed up that explains how I know, would you prefer PDF, Word?
i am generally surprised that Red orchestra 2 or 1 was not mentioned for inspiration for this game, if you know what these games are, then im sure you love them, and want more people to know about it, despite their age, they are still so, so good, in all aspects
I would love the mission editor!
dude this will be fucking legendary wtf
Ooooh epic!
this my dream
I'm not 100% on the monetization explanation. Sounds like a lot excuses meant to skirt around that they are using a FOMO based business practices when it comes to limited vehicles. Digital scarcity is inherently anti-consumer and should be avoided. I don't buy the argument that limiting access would be the sole method or even the most sensible method to limiting over representation of said vehicles in the game.
Please make an honest game with an honest business model. This genre in particular sorely needs it.
They also explained that you will be able to buy these vehicule in the player market
@@alc2545 You can buy limited event vehicles in the ingame marketplace in War Thunder as well. An Is-7 will only set you back 2000€
@@lilandmestudios you take the extreme exemple, the is7 is overpowered and barrely seen, a lot of vehicules are like 30-50
They Can also cap the Price of the véhicule on the market
@@alc2545 You can , but players can just as easily resort to using third party trading sites such as common practice in many if not most games with a player based market place.
And even if that wasn't the case we're still talking about artificial scarcity here. A commodity that is finite will always according to market principle increase in price in relation to demand. If no new items are produced you will reach a point where the item is either astronomically expensive or simply unavailable for purchase.
Hence FOMO. There will be people who are going to spend money they can't afford to spend on a digital item that is made scarce for arbitrary reasons. There are better and more consumer friendly ways to make these vehicles rare ingame, like imposing a limit on how many times you can spawn said vehicles per day ect. instead of making it a commodity and imposing yet another in a long row of shady business practices that we as consumers already have to endure in the gaming market.
VERY COOL
YEEEEEES !
I'm down with paying 15 bucks for this game. I'm down with paying for premium vehicles. I am not down with limited premiums and a player market. I get that it's immersion breaking seeing many Sturmtigers on the field but limiting their sale will only cause more people to buy them when they are available and punish future new players for not getting the game early.
Hey, it's important to note that a player market is not a key element to the gameplay experience, and players are free to ignore if they wish. Further, players are free to trade on the market to purchase limited edition vehicles that were released long before they started playing - that's the entire idea behind the market place, to allow players access to vehicles that were released before they joined.
@@AcesandArmour Yes and if the vehicle that I am a big fan of is being sold at 3000$ then tough shit yeah?
You expect your costumers to buy multiple packs of a same vehicle so they can make money in your marketplace. It's immersion breaking to have multiple prototypes but if an entire team spawns tiger 1s and king tigers that's not immersion breaking to you since it doesn't make you any money.
I'm out, you lost my interest and there's a few people here complaining about it too. You guys could do with better communication, telling people you're not being greedy while blatantly pulling greedy FOMO tactics is just the peak. I'm good being fucked over by Gaijin, don't need you guys on top of that.
@ There’s no reason to suggest a vehicle would ever sell for that much. Further ‘multiple packs of the same vehicle’? I’m not sure why you’re referring to - there will be no packs, and every account can only purchase a single copy of each vehicle. It is immersion breaking if an entire team spawns Tiger Is and King Tigers, which is why we will have measures against that too, which we actually talked about in this interview.
@@AcesandArmour Ok so you want people to buy limited vehicles and choose if they sell it on the market or keep it. You never specified so I assumed your idea was that people could flood the market.
Let's say it's a really rare or good vehicle that 100% of the people keep. You are gating future players from getting this vehicle because it won't be on the player market or it'll be on the market for an exorbitant amount of money.
So if there's systems preventing people from over spawning a vehicle why don't you implement a harsher system preventing people from overspawning prototypes and rare vehicles instead of limiting their sales and leaning into FOMO? You'll keep making money and people won't rely on a market, a system often used by people to scalp other people of extra money.
As much as you people don't want to admit it your system leans into predatory tactics that both guarantee that you make a lot of money all while frustrating your players. I know this since I play the warthunder market myself. I've been wanting to get the Excelsior for years, it was being sold at 320 euro last year, it dipped to 170 thanks to a rerun of the vehicle on lootboxes. That is still far too much for a low tier vehicle that is essentially a faster churchill.
I spent years wanting the KV-220 and the prototype tiger1, I bought them since their prices went down from 160 euro and 120 respectively to 50 and 40 sometime at the start of the year. Was I happy? yes and no, I just bought a high tier premium during the sales for 35 euro, I'm paying 15 and 5 euro more for novelty vehicles on mid tier that don't even come with premium time or premium currency. This is frustrating.
You guys already ask for a small entry fee to your game, like it or not it is one barrier, and you're expecting to pull in people by offering a niche experience, full simulator, which has already a smaller audience and you're openly stating that using FOMO is good business practice because you want realism. Not only do I find this thought overly optimistic but I also find that it's exactly the sort of practice that I hate from your main competitor difference being that Warthunder is my comfort game and I don't mind spending on it since I play around 500 hours of it a year. I don't need another game that goes into the same practices especially from a dev team that came out of nowhere and may be overpromising, I've fallen for that trick a bunch of times already.
It saddens me because I'm one of the few Warthunder sim players, I play GHPC, DCS, Arma and HLL. All of these games allow you to buy whatever you want at any given time bar WT while still being successful and I don't understand why you guys decided to take the absolutely worst aspect of Warthunder and put it in your game beyond greed.
@@ayuvir Fully agree
I was really excited for this game but if theyre just going to lean into fomo im not interested anymore
Id happily pay $60 for this if it had none of the microtransaction bs in it
17:28 my mind thought of the pz 4 here. It's not the very amazing killing machine wheraboos made it out to be, but it's a goddamn good tank for it's time, just the same as the m4, so it can definitely tip scales as they were somewhat cheap and pretty good
I've never actually seen any pz4 whearaboos but I wouldn't be surprised. It's an OK tank nothing crazy.
never seen any pz 4 whereaboos...
Ah, so it is a scummy monetisation model. Glad to know i can stop following this project, wishing them all the worst
so melodramatic. Literally if you want you can just pay $15 and play the normal game without ever worrying about the marketplace
Wanna go back to CS:GO doomskull and enjoy your endless paid lootboxes XD
This is standard simulation monetisation, and adding scarcity and value depending upon vehicle prevalence is very interesting method of "balancing".
@Dom-um6gi the developers kinda don't want the game to be flooded with vehicles that were very unlikely to be seen in combat, plus talking to the devs myself it looks like you will always have the option to resell your purchased tank on the market
@@Discordscammedme... Yes, without a price cap. (As specified by the developers) I was lurking the discord channel and I did not get a good impression. It seemed more like a highschool fraternity to me, at least nothing I have any confidence in backing up with any of my money.
HAHAHA MTC 💀
FIRST LESGOO
🤖