I think it’s because of how Jimmy and Kim got Howard killed, Mike must’ve lost any respect he had for him after that since Howard wasn’t in the game. That’s probably why Mike was so vague if Lalo was dead or not as he wanted Jimmy to be scared as some sort of punishment
Mike should’ve blamed Gus for Howard’s death. Lalo wasn’t supposed to be alive and there to kill him, I have no idea how you could pin that one on Jimmy
@@johndoe-eh3tv because if Jimmy and Kim didn’t f*ck with Howard for no reason for their weird kink he wouldn’t have been there to die. They dragged him into the game basically Plus it wasn’t really Gus’s fault Lalo wasn’t dead
@@omarbaba9892 it wasn’t entirely on Gus, if you want to be specific it’s the incompetent hitmen, but it’s absolutely more-so Gus’s fault than Jimmy and Kim… they had no intention to drag him into the game. The plan only messed with his career and professional life, the entire murder part can literally just attributed to Lalo and Howard being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and of course Jimmy and Kim had no reason to expect Lalo there since Mike and Gus gave false security
Mike wasn’t that much better than Jimmy either. Papa Varga made sure to him that Mike was just lying to himself that he’s more moral than the other criminals like Jimmy, Walter and Salamancas.
Exactly this. He respected Jimmy's positive qualities and liked working with him, but he saw progressing corruption in him as Saul. I think he continued to work for him for the sake of the old times and to protect Jimmy from his bad decisions.
In the commentary for season 6, episode 11, Peter Gould stated that Mike only works for Saul because Gus wanted him to. Mike wanted nothing to do with Jimmy after Howard Hamlin (whatever happened there) but Gus wanted to maintain access to Sauls services without having direct contact with Saul. They were going to do a few story lines about Mike Jimmy & Gus during the post-Kim breakup, but they didn't end up doing that.
Gus: "Now what I'd love to see is a truce - wipe the slate clean. The no shows, Mesa Verde, Lalo - put it all behind us." (Saul and Mike accepting; dismissively and grumbly respectfully) Gus: "Your ex boss Howard Hamlin...whatever happened there." Saul: "ALRIGHT THEN" Mike: "WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE? WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE!? I'LL TELL YOU WHAT FUCKIN' HAPPENED - THIS PIECE OF SHIT DRAGGED AN INNOCENT BUSINESS MAN INTO THIS THING OF OURS FOR LALO TO PUT 6 BULLETS IN THE KID WITHOUT ANY PROVOCATION WHATSOEVER!"
Yeah, thats the only reason I could come up with of why Mike would still be doing basic PI work for Saul, cool to know the creators came up with the same thing.
A lot of people talk about how Mike wouldn't threaten Saul in BrBa after BCS, but I always interpreted it as Walt being such a destructive presence it led to the termination of their pseudo-friendship
I think the pseudo friendship ends in BCS but Mike is torn between blaming Saul for what happened to Howard and blaming himself for ruining Sauls life. In any case he doesn't hate Saul enough to not work with him.
Lmao. Blame everything on Walter, right? As if Mike wasn't clearly, CLEARLY portrayed as a hipocrite all throughout BCS and BrBa. He's not too different from Walter, and he's Gus' hound. His last speech to Walter was a cope and he got what he deserved, but fans like him too much as a charismatic character to realize it.
@adamiadamiadami Mike is absolutely different from Walter. Neither are particularly "good" people, but Mike did have a code of honor and tried his best to avoid getting innocent people caught in the crossfire of his illegal activities. Meanwhile, Walt gaslit and manipulated people (namely Jesse and Skyler) throughout the entire show, and poisoned an innocent child just to get Jesse back on his side. BCS also makes it clear that Mike doesn't enjoy the things he does and it weighs heavily on his conscience, while Walt acts strictly to serve his own ego and doesn't care about who he hurts along the way.
I think Mike working for Saul in Breaking Bad as a private investigator makes great sense actually. Mike is very cautious about his money laundering as seen in BCS with his employment at Madrigal. Mike likely did the PI work for Saul to have another legitimate source of income, plain and simple.
I don't think Saul completely didn't care, he just knows what world he is in. You can't sit there and cry when your PI, then partner of your meth empire, dies. Walt took things to a level Saul would never, but it's not like he hasn't been around the block. So Mike disappearing wasn't as a giant shock. It's how he lost Howard.
I think the whole "break your legs" thing hurt Sauls feelings because he didn't want to work with Mike in S5. Walt and Jesse wanted to bring Mike on board over Sauls objections. So he wasn't making up his indifference for Walts benefit it had to be sincere.
I think Mike kept Jimmy at arms length when he was a fast-talking PD. Then he distanced himself even more as Jimmy fell more and more into the Saul Goodman persona.
I mean whatever the case I think Mike still doing odd jobs for Saul can be explained by him in return using Saul for all of his criminal connections with the encrypted book and "legal" services for Gus
a) By the time of Breaking Bad, I don't think Mike is doing odd jobs for Saul because he needs the money for his family. I think he's doing the odd jobs for Saul to keep in the loop on criminal happenings around town. b) When Mike says to Saul, "don't make me beat you 'till your legs don't work", he IS being friendly. He's saying "I don't want to do this, but you and I both know I will have to" c) When Saul suggests sending Pinkman to Belize, like Mike - He is terrified of what Walt... You couldn't very well stand up to Heisenberg in that moment and say "hey, you killed my friend!" I think they are friends, or as friendly as you get with work acquaintances that you know might be killed tomorrow because they made a misstep in "the game".
I think Mike's treatment of Saul in Breaking Bad is entirely explained by the fact that Saul engaged with Walt against Mike's express advice to "let it go". If Saul had listened to Mike, none of the events of the series would have happened.
Extremely simplified: Mike and Jimmy were friends, but Mike and Saul were not. I think that they card about each other even in breaking bad, but they are both shadows of their past selves.
Mike and Jimmy were never truly friends. They were only close because they both recognized each other's qualities. Mike certainly cared like Jimmy, Mike is not a cold, emotionless person. But if by any chance Saul did something stupid, or didn't do what Gus wanted (to the point of threatening to break Saul's legs for not telling him where Jesse was hiding) he would go on the rampage. Mike just loves his daughter-in-law and granddaughter. He would do what he need to protect them. Jimmy? He'll do whatever he can, but he wouldn't sacrifice himself for it or anything like that.
i really really appreciate this videos existence because i love the characters of this show and i feel like i never see youtube videos discussing something entirely based on the relationship between two characters. thank you! although i am a bit biased because i love mike and read way too far into every aspect of his character. ive always been so frustrated by how thanks to mike's rocky introduction into brba, theres just a fundamental problem with everything he and jimmy do together in bcs, and you can't really fix it without retconning stuff out of breaking bad. i'm so glad you touched on that in this video because i think that's the real root of the problem with these two, and kind of a lot of intricacies of mikes character in general? nothing life ruining but when you think ab this show for a little too long you notice things. theres a little bit of this with him and gus as well. (although jimmy really gets the short end of the stick when it comes to old man relationships.) its refreshing to see somebody else talk about it! i know this is a long comment, i'll be done soon but one last thing about 8:47 . i love the placement of the bad choice road clip after this statement, it made me think about the sentiment that mike gives in that scene in a different light than i usually do. it is technically a Jimmy And Mike scene, but i feel like i've never considered it as solely about their relationship? and it's a really interesting take to apply it to the fact that bagman is their last big thing together and after bcs they sort of stop caring about each other because of their OWN character development. if only it was more in the text...but alas. anyway you've given me some GOOD FOOD! the gears in my brain are turning. thank you
Mike was a guy who lost his son to corrupt cops and then he had to kill Werner in the same principle so he REALLY hated collateral damage of innocents. So I think that after Howard's death, Mike kind of became an associate to Saul rather than a good friend.
Mike, Gus, and Saul are my three favorite characters. The more I see Mike, the more I like him. Like Marlon Brando in the Godfather, you don’t kill civilians, women, and children. The rest are fair game. This was an interesting code of ethics.
I assumed Gus would tell Mike your job is also to playcate the lawyer on quiet weeks since this is the closest Gus can be to hearing about the "friend of the cartel" legal issues without having to be near the courthouse.
Mike and Jimmy seemed to just do favors for favors… Even if Saul is selfish and focused solely on money, it’s beneficial to have a good lawyer like Saul on your side (Mike did turn to Saul when the DEA was on him)
Mike liked Jimmy but kept him at a difference. And Mike does have a certain fear of gus. When it comes between gus and Jimmy (Jimmy who is protecting 2 unpredictable characters), Gus comes first
Only thing I’d disagree is with Mike being loyal to Gus because Gus is more “honorable” - I think Mike was loyal to Gus because Gus was more practical and reasonable unlike Saul and Walt, who would destroy everything if they felt like it The reason I bring this up is because idk if Mike would be ok with Gus having children running around selling his product (Thomas aka Andrea’s brother), in BCS there’s enough proof that Mike often disagrees with Gus’ way of operating but he still works for him due to his capabilities as a professional - unlike Walt.
Perhaps Mike stayed in touch with Jimmy to keep his options open. He didn't want to keep all of his eggs in one basket in case things went sideways with Gus. Maybe part of him was hopeful Jimmy would see the light one day, and become the man he once was. Jimmy was eventually able to do that, but not before Mike moved to Belize.
Jimmy was human, Jimmy cared for the law, he also did his best to keep an honest image, and reputation of himself. Saul encouraged the worst of Jimmy's character traits. Saul used every loop hole and rode the corrupt wave of cash that was keeping the cartel out of jail and eventually laundering their money through Walt. Saul lied, cheated and manipulated his way to cheap and fraudulent success. With these differences in mind. I believe Mike didn't mind Jimmy. Their "trip" through the desert felt like an honest and vulnerable dialog that helped them at least understand one another at a base level. If it weren't for Jimmy's world being shattered by Lalo, I feel like they could have become truly solid with one another just before Breaking Bad happens. But alas, that's not how the story goes. Saul is everything Mike was both a knowing participant of, and a passive bystander to. Pure, greedy and toxic corruption of a system that was supposed to stand for something better. The Law was supposed to disincentive crime. Yet a facade of care for the law can also shade the enforcers of said law from the judging eyes of those who still hold the law sacred. We all know Mike did his best to move past this, and still views himself mostly above corrupt people such as Saul. As good of a lawyer he really is for the Cartel/Fring, it makes sense that despite this fact he grows to despise Saul anyways.
I think Mike liked early seasons Jimmy but hated what he became. I also imagine Mike only worked for Saul because Gus probably wanted to keep tabs on him. I think as Jimmy became Saul, and especially once Kim left him, he stopped caring about friendship or loyalty even to the one who saved his life.
Mike told Saul Lalo would be dead by this time tomorrow and Lalo shows up and Mike knew he was alive, this leads to Kim and Jimmy breaking up. Saul probably could of used knowing Lalo never got killed.
personally, i think they were capable of being friends in the early seasons of better call saul. thing is, jimmy and mike have always had a purely business relationship. the issue at hand is almost entirely related to the fact that by breaking bad (no pun intended), they were both entirely different people and, more importantly, they were true criminals. if they weren't criminals, a friendship could've perhaps blossomed, but it couldn't. real, true criminals don't have friends because they go where the money is; they have no more boundaries, and that's where both mike and saul were by breaking bad, as conveyed with better call saul, hence why they were never actual friends. it's honestly one of the sadder aspects of both series' to me because, especially with jimmy, i can't help but always think "what if jimmy had made better decisions and a *few* less mistakes," because he had a genuine heart in before some of the main catalysts that contributed to his transformation to saul goodman (e.g. the mistake with irene and chuck's death) all that said (and after finishing the video), this is a VERY GOOD analysis. you demonstrate great understanding of both series, the ethics, and their characters, and i find your perspectives to be very agreeable, especially that of most the decline of jimmy and mike's relationship being on saul. keep up the good work!
Mike never liked Saul or respected him. I think Mike first caught a glimpse of who Saul was after he said he was sorry to hear of Chucks passing and Saul brushed it off and started talking about scamming an innocent person.
Jimmy's biggest friendship moment was spying on Los Pollos Hermanos for Mike and saying "who else is in your corner?...me" Mike's biggest friendship moment was offering condolences over Chuck's death, and willing to answer Jimmy's time machine question.
Feel like you could just chalk it up to BrBa being made first and BCS being made later. I feel like their relationship would be a little different if BCS was made first or something
Mike’s relationship with Jimmy in Breaking Bad wasn’t an oddity, as Saul provided legal advice for Gus through Mike, and probably would’ve been a lawyer for anyone in that organization. He even browbeats Mike for using outside council, without telling him.
In BB Saul was shown to be more of a “ear to the streets” for Mike. So I think that’s why Mike kept him around and did jobs here and there for him. Especially since Saul had represented associates of the Salamanca Cartel. Even Gus asks about Saul, as “the lawyer” in BB. I think Mike being intertwined with Jimmy even though he works for Gus makes a lot more sense than it seems.
As i sit and watch BB for the 100000 time.....i never thought of this from the very first opening credits of the pilot. Walk is standing there with a shirt on, no pants, in the middle of the road with a crashed RV on the side of the road. very very odd if you ask me. The ABQFD goes flying by. No one stops? ok. they are on the way to a fire. BUT do they not talk with the local PD or DEA? Wouldnt that be something they would notice as suspicious? They find the gas mask not to far from there.....Wouldn't Hank have asked knowing that the fire was down the road from where the mask was found if anyone had seen anything? Sure they found crazy 8's car at the fire which lead to the call to the DEA, but why would they not say oh yeah, on our way we saw this RV crashed in a ditch...............Why is this HUGE HUGE point never ever asked about or brought up again? Think about it. AND one more thing.....who called the fire in? It wasnt Walt as he didnt know it was the FD coming up on him, so who called? Was it the house that was very far away with the Cow House? who called? And that quick????
Wouldn't Mike being a cop see through Jimmy's facade and instantly recognize that he is a compulsive scammer who only cares about money? Mike must have arrested slippin Jimmy types more times than he can remember.
The way I always saw it wasn't that they were friends, or even friendly, but they had both respect and disdain for each other due to events they both were involved in. They are both in the game, but they also both had lives outside the game, unlike most of the other people they associated with.
I hope so, I'm in my 6th or 7th rewatch i still don't notice little things to this day (today i found out chuck did the carol burnett ear thing they were discussing, i was focused on jimmy and Rebecca to notice chuck there, likley intentional)
I always thought it was a situation of having to be on the same side- to keep Gus and Jimmy out of trouble (since they also did business together). In this business, the less people, the better. Mike was a person that could keep up communication with all parties and keep distance between them when possible. The more people he worked “for” the more reliable his information is… so it was mutually beneficial between all parties to share one really solid man.
I guess Mike was both disgusted at what Jimmy has become but is still attached to tge guy he used to be. So he keeps working gor him occasionaly to keep taps in him, but still gives him a lot of tough live because, well, Jimmy has turned into an asshole.
I don’t think either of them have what would be conventionally thought of as friends. Dues to personalities and world they exist in. They were “friends” as much as either one was capable of showing any semblance of friendship. They have a certain type of bond from shared experiences. They can relate and share some things between they can’t with other people. Both know they will never have a real friend at this point in there movies. They steal moments of relatability when they can.
So, obviously, Mike only did the "small side jobs for Saul" during Breaking Bad because it helped Gus' interest. Even going back to Jane's overdose. Gus was aware of Jesse and it furthered Gus' interest to not have Jesse incarcerated.
Love your videos and hate to be a hater and as fun as theorizing in universe is the obvious answer is that being a prequel the story of their relationship came long after BCS was written.
Here’s a fun question. Which of these two characters have met more main characters? Keep in mind Mike met Eladio & Jimmy didn’t. And Jimmy met/knows Howard but Mike doesn’t.
Nah it aint that deep. They just had to figure out the best way to make mike and jimmy's relationship happen on better call saul. Breaking bad just had them 2 guys that worked together from time to time without a past. BCS just gave them one.
ALSO!!! if Crazy 8 was an informant for the DEA, why did he never tell them about Jessie? He could have called in before he went to the cook site. He could have told them A LONG TIME AGO who captain cook was. And with that.....when walt went missing, how did hank never put two and two together when he tracked down Jessie's car with the plates....The Captn Huh?????
I think they were a bit closer to friends than they were. Tony and John liked each other but if either one was to get in the way of the other earning, they wouldn't hesitate to put each other down if there were no other options. Mike went out of his way to save Jimmy's life a few times, even disobeying Gus to do so.
It shows that Mike liked Jimmy more when he was Jimmy and not Saul. After what happened to Howard, he looks at him with nothing but contempt and as an actual pawn in his life and Gus' enterprises.
I think it's just that the writers for BCS were stuck in a corner and didn't have many options on how to handle character writing. When it came time to write their own version of saul post-bb they fumbled hard, so i don't think they were equipped to handle writing a character who ends up less fleshed out in the future.
They were in the way of the traditional bickering odd pairings. Other than Kim, Mike was the only person to believe in Jimmy and is disappointed he was hellbent to prove Chuck Right, as Mike was aware of what was going on between them.
It’s a mixture of 3 things for me: firstly Mike lost a lot of respect for Jimmy after he got Howard killed as he wasn’t in the game, Secondly, how he fully embraced his Saul persona after Kim left him showing very little of his previous Jimmy McGill identity, finally due to his continual working relationship with Walter white which he was against from the start and advised Saul not to pursue him, making his life incredibly harder once Gus wanted Walt dead
Mike works for Jimmy because he is the best criminal lawyer out there. If he keeps Jimmy at arms length, he can use him to help him or anyone in his and Gus's network out of trouble. In all reality, it's a mutually beneficial partnership with nothing else there. Mike doesn't respect Jimmy and Jimmy doesn't have any feelings towards Mike. They're just colleagues.
It seemed like they were becoming friends when Jimmy said “Who’s got your back? This guy” I feel like Jimmy broke bad and lost his humanity, which prevented him and Mike from being friends
I was under the impression that Jimmy was trying to have a brotherly relationship with Mike since Chuck was so hard to impress. However, Mike hated himself too much to have that kind of relationship, so he would push Jimmy away all the time. Also, Mike wasn't impressed with Jimmy's charisma. After the death of Chuck and his divorce from Kim, Saul no longer cared about affection from anyone, viewing it as a weakness.
Obviously is a Plot Hole, writers did not take care carefully the previous roles in Breaking Bad (filmed before Better call Saul) then in Better call Saul these characters are bond due the circumstances. I noticed this also right after watching all Better Call Saul. These two role characters just don't fit (relationship) in Breaking Bad once you watch Better Call Saul.
I wouldn’t really call Mike and Jimmy friends. They didn’t seem to have the type of bond where they’d literally stop anything they were doing to help each other out in any situation. I’d say they had a professional relationship that made them respect and care about each other to a degree since they knew enough about each others’ professional and personal issues and statuses.
Obviously they are not friends. They are colleagues and have a closeness and shared histories, but they would never willing spend time with eachother. I have no idea who woupd think they are buddies, it would be like saying gus and mike were friends. It is clearly a transactional relationship.
I never understood why they had to make them friends on the show. They should’ve just had a cameo about him and not to make better calls so mad about him he meant like he met the people and the in the cartel all by himself in a few.
My interpretation after all is said and done is that they liked each other well enough tough Mike became less attached to Jimmy the longer he was his „Saul“ character. He stayed around as a PI tough because he liked the smaller, breathier Jobs from Goodman which are way less dangerous and morally demanding than his work for Gus. Also his „Enforcer“ Job probably never took so much much of his time during peacetime after the Superlab finished and Lalo was dead. And last but not least it was easy money for him on the side which we shouldn‘t forget was his first motivation in any case. That way it all makes sence.
You are not the friend. You're not capable of being the friend. I had a friend, but now I don't. You are not the friend.
And this friend he once had, Mike was talking about Werner Zeegler
😂
@@riqueramalhete2348 isn’t it interesting how they got ideas before they got ideas? bravo Vince
Ok! Jesus!
Not only was Nacho the guy, but he was a friend.
Nacho Varga in the house
I like how everyone is blamed for Howard's death except for Lalo
I think it’s because of how Jimmy and Kim got Howard killed, Mike must’ve lost any respect he had for him after that since Howard wasn’t in the game. That’s probably why Mike was so vague if Lalo was dead or not as he wanted Jimmy to be scared as some sort of punishment
Mike should’ve blamed Gus for Howard’s death. Lalo wasn’t supposed to be alive and there to kill him, I have no idea how you could pin that one on Jimmy
@@johndoe-eh3tv because if Jimmy and Kim didn’t f*ck with Howard for no reason for their weird kink he wouldn’t have been there to die. They dragged him into the game basically
Plus it wasn’t really Gus’s fault Lalo wasn’t dead
@@omarbaba9892 it wasn’t entirely on Gus, if you want to be specific it’s the incompetent hitmen, but it’s absolutely more-so Gus’s fault than Jimmy and Kim… they had no intention to drag him into the game. The plan only messed with his career and professional life, the entire murder part can literally just attributed to Lalo and Howard being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and of course Jimmy and Kim had no reason to expect Lalo there since Mike and Gus gave false security
Mike wasn’t that much better than Jimmy either. Papa Varga made sure to him that Mike was just lying to himself that he’s more moral than the other criminals like Jimmy, Walter and Salamancas.
Mike is guilty of the same thing. When he messed with the Salamancas his actions led to a random civilian being killed.
Mike liked Jimmy McGill
But he didn’t like Saul Goodman
Exactly this. He respected Jimmy's positive qualities and liked working with him, but he saw progressing corruption in him as Saul. I think he continued to work for him for the sake of the old times and to protect Jimmy from his bad decisions.
They weren't ever friends, but they each had skills that helped the other.
Mike was like "I must be loyle to my capo"
Loyle?
@@chrise8275sopranos reference yes loyle
@@chrise8275uh oh
LMAO
Loyle Salamander
Mike gave up on Jimmy when he got Howard killed, and probably after hearing he only cares about money if he had a Time Machine
Which is weird considering that he still cared about Jimmy in some form when he warned Jimmy not to do business with Walter after all those events.
Nah, probably because Jimmy became saul and became an actual douche bag with his wealth.
Mike in that scene knows Jimmy is lying. He even says “that’s the only thing you’d change” and notices Jimmy doesn’t answer.
@nont18411 that's probably more doing his job well which he always does and maybe a little not wanting to get wrapped up with walt by proxy
Lalo got Howard killed. Until that moment Mike made Saul believe that Lalo was taken care of. Mike just saw Jimmy as an associate.
They loved each other like brothers in law
Ya brother chuck whatever happpened there
We need a crossover
they did-ent
Whatever happened dere
The fire.
God rest his soul.
In the commentary for season 6, episode 11, Peter Gould stated that Mike only works for Saul because Gus wanted him to. Mike wanted nothing to do with Jimmy after Howard Hamlin (whatever happened there) but Gus wanted to maintain access to Sauls services without having direct contact with Saul. They were going to do a few story lines about Mike Jimmy & Gus during the post-Kim breakup, but they didn't end up doing that.
Whatever happened there?!
The shooting
@@YoopiBoom , its a Sopranos quote.
Gus: "Now what I'd love to see is a truce - wipe the slate clean. The no shows, Mesa Verde, Lalo - put it all behind us."
(Saul and Mike accepting; dismissively and grumbly respectfully)
Gus: "Your ex boss Howard Hamlin...whatever happened there."
Saul: "ALRIGHT THEN"
Mike: "WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE? WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE!? I'LL TELL YOU WHAT FUCKIN' HAPPENED - THIS PIECE OF SHIT DRAGGED AN INNOCENT BUSINESS MAN INTO THIS THING OF OURS FOR LALO TO PUT 6 BULLETS IN THE KID WITHOUT ANY PROVOCATION WHATSOEVER!"
Yeah, thats the only reason I could come up with of why Mike would still be doing basic PI work for Saul, cool to know the creators came up with the same thing.
Ah yes the dynamic duo: Dave Clark and Viktor St. Claire
erm it's Viktor with a k
A lot of people talk about how Mike wouldn't threaten Saul in BrBa after BCS, but I always interpreted it as Walt being such a destructive presence it led to the termination of their pseudo-friendship
I certainly think it lines up
I think the pseudo friendship ends in BCS but Mike is torn between blaming Saul for what happened to Howard and blaming himself for ruining Sauls life. In any case he doesn't hate Saul enough to not work with him.
Lmao. Blame everything on Walter, right? As if Mike wasn't clearly, CLEARLY portrayed as a hipocrite all throughout BCS and BrBa. He's not too different from Walter, and he's Gus' hound. His last speech to Walter was a cope and he got what he deserved, but fans like him too much as a charismatic character to realize it.
@adamiadamiadami Mike is absolutely different from Walter. Neither are particularly "good" people, but Mike did have a code of honor and tried his best to avoid getting innocent people caught in the crossfire of his illegal activities. Meanwhile, Walt gaslit and manipulated people (namely Jesse and Skyler) throughout the entire show, and poisoned an innocent child just to get Jesse back on his side.
BCS also makes it clear that Mike doesn't enjoy the things he does and it weighs heavily on his conscience, while Walt acts strictly to serve his own ego and doesn't care about who he hurts along the way.
I think Mike working for Saul in Breaking Bad as a private investigator makes great sense actually. Mike is very cautious about his money laundering as seen in BCS with his employment at Madrigal. Mike likely did the PI work for Saul to have another legitimate source of income, plain and simple.
also, Jimmy is deep with Gus' and the cartel's business, having Mike keep an eye on it would be of crucial importance to Gus.
I don't think Saul completely didn't care, he just knows what world he is in. You can't sit there and cry when your PI, then partner of your meth empire, dies. Walt took things to a level Saul would never, but it's not like he hasn't been around the block. So Mike disappearing wasn't as a giant shock. It's how he lost Howard.
Also in his POV walt killed Mike he's unstable and dangerous he's just trying to make it out that meeting and all other meetings alive at that point
I think the whole "break your legs" thing hurt Sauls feelings because he didn't want to work with Mike in S5. Walt and Jesse wanted to bring Mike on board over Sauls objections. So he wasn't making up his indifference for Walts benefit it had to be sincere.
4:20 I always interpret this scene as Jimmy trying to play it off more casually out of fear of Walt
I think Mike kept Jimmy at arms length when he was a fast-talking PD. Then he distanced himself even more as Jimmy fell more and more into the Saul Goodman persona.
''Saul, don't make me beat you 'til your legs don't work.'' Yeah, I say those words to my friends all the time.
Idea for next video:Were Waltuh and Finger lovers?
Littlefinger?
Put your video suggestion away, Waltuh. I'm not making a 'Were Waltuh and Finger lovers' video right now, Waltuh.
how long could you possibly make a video where all the narrator really needs to say is "yes"
I feel like they had as much of a friendship as their relationship allowed.
I mean whatever the case I think Mike still doing odd jobs for Saul can be explained by him in return using Saul for all of his criminal connections with the encrypted book and "legal" services for Gus
a) By the time of Breaking Bad, I don't think Mike is doing odd jobs for Saul because he needs the money for his family. I think he's doing the odd jobs for Saul to keep in the loop on criminal happenings around town.
b) When Mike says to Saul, "don't make me beat you 'till your legs don't work", he IS being friendly. He's saying "I don't want to do this, but you and I both know I will have to"
c) When Saul suggests sending Pinkman to Belize, like Mike - He is terrified of what Walt... You couldn't very well stand up to Heisenberg in that moment and say "hey, you killed my friend!"
I think they are friends, or as friendly as you get with work acquaintances that you know might be killed tomorrow because they made a misstep in "the game".
Even better; they were lovers…
Classic trope, always reliable
saultuh
The real reason Kim left Jimmy is because she caught him getting doggy style from Mike.
Catching not pitching?
I think Mike's treatment of Saul in Breaking Bad is entirely explained by the fact that Saul engaged with Walt against Mike's express advice to "let it go". If Saul had listened to Mike, none of the events of the series would have happened.
Extremely simplified: Mike and Jimmy were friends, but Mike and Saul were not. I think that they card about each other even in breaking bad, but they are both shadows of their past selves.
Mike and Jimmy were never truly friends. They were only close because they both recognized each other's qualities. Mike certainly cared like Jimmy, Mike is not a cold, emotionless person. But if by any chance Saul did something stupid, or didn't do what Gus wanted (to the point of threatening to break Saul's legs for not telling him where Jesse was hiding) he would go on the rampage. Mike just loves his daughter-in-law and granddaughter. He would do what he need to protect them. Jimmy? He'll do whatever he can, but he wouldn't sacrifice himself for it or anything like that.
i really really appreciate this videos existence because i love the characters of this show and i feel like i never see youtube videos discussing something entirely based on the relationship between two characters. thank you! although i am a bit biased because i love mike and read way too far into every aspect of his character. ive always been so frustrated by how thanks to mike's rocky introduction into brba, theres just a fundamental problem with everything he and jimmy do together in bcs, and you can't really fix it without retconning stuff out of breaking bad. i'm so glad you touched on that in this video because i think that's the real root of the problem with these two, and kind of a lot of intricacies of mikes character in general? nothing life ruining but when you think ab this show for a little too long you notice things. theres a little bit of this with him and gus as well. (although jimmy really gets the short end of the stick when it comes to old man relationships.) its refreshing to see somebody else talk about it!
i know this is a long comment, i'll be done soon but one last thing about 8:47 . i love the placement of the bad choice road clip after this statement, it made me think about the sentiment that mike gives in that scene in a different light than i usually do. it is technically a Jimmy And Mike scene, but i feel like i've never considered it as solely about their relationship? and it's a really interesting take to apply it to the fact that bagman is their last big thing together and after bcs they sort of stop caring about each other because of their OWN character development. if only it was more in the text...but alas. anyway you've given me some GOOD FOOD! the gears in my brain are turning. thank you
He was the closest thing that mike had to a friend, mike appeared to have associates not friends
Mike was a guy who lost his son to corrupt cops and then he had to kill Werner in the same principle so he REALLY hated collateral damage of innocents. So I think that after Howard's death, Mike kind of became an associate to Saul rather than a good friend.
Mike, Gus, and Saul are my three favorite characters. The more I see Mike, the more I like him. Like Marlon Brando in the Godfather, you don’t kill civilians, women, and children. The rest are fair game. This was an interesting code of ethics.
I assumed Gus would tell Mike your job is also to playcate the lawyer on quiet weeks since this is the closest Gus can be to hearing about the "friend of the cartel" legal issues without having to be near the courthouse.
Mike and Jimmy seemed to just do favors for favors… Even if Saul is selfish and focused solely on money, it’s beneficial to have a good lawyer like Saul on your side (Mike did turn to Saul when the DEA was on him)
Mike liked Jimmy but kept him at a difference. And Mike does have a certain fear of gus. When it comes between gus and Jimmy (Jimmy who is protecting 2 unpredictable characters), Gus comes first
Only thing I’d disagree is with Mike being loyal to Gus because Gus is more “honorable” - I think Mike was loyal to Gus because Gus was more practical and reasonable unlike Saul and Walt, who would destroy everything if they felt like it
The reason I bring this up is because idk if Mike would be ok with Gus having children running around selling his product (Thomas aka Andrea’s brother), in BCS there’s enough proof that Mike often disagrees with Gus’ way of operating but he still works for him due to his capabilities as a professional - unlike Walt.
8:55 Nice editing here!
Perhaps Mike stayed in touch with Jimmy to keep his options open. He didn't want to keep all of his eggs in one basket in case things went sideways with Gus. Maybe part of him was hopeful Jimmy would see the light one day, and become the man he once was. Jimmy was eventually able to do that, but not before Mike moved to Belize.
Jimmy was human, Jimmy cared for the law, he also did his best to keep an honest image, and reputation of himself.
Saul encouraged the worst of Jimmy's character traits. Saul used every loop hole and rode the corrupt wave of cash that was keeping the cartel out of jail and eventually laundering their money through Walt. Saul lied, cheated and manipulated his way to cheap and fraudulent success.
With these differences in mind. I believe Mike didn't mind Jimmy. Their "trip" through the desert felt like an honest and vulnerable dialog that helped them at least understand one another at a base level. If it weren't for Jimmy's world being shattered by Lalo, I feel like they could have become truly solid with one another just before Breaking Bad happens. But alas, that's not how the story goes.
Saul is everything Mike was both a knowing participant of, and a passive bystander to. Pure, greedy and toxic corruption of a system that was supposed to stand for something better. The Law was supposed to disincentive crime. Yet a facade of care for the law can also shade the enforcers of said law from the judging eyes of those who still hold the law sacred. We all know Mike did his best to move past this, and still views himself mostly above corrupt people such as Saul. As good of a lawyer he really is for the Cartel/Fring, it makes sense that despite this fact he grows to despise Saul anyways.
I think Mike liked early seasons Jimmy but hated what he became. I also imagine Mike only worked for Saul because Gus probably wanted to keep tabs on him.
I think as Jimmy became Saul, and especially once Kim left him, he stopped caring about friendship or loyalty even to the one who saved his life.
Mike told Saul Lalo would be dead by this time tomorrow and Lalo shows up and Mike knew he was alive, this leads to Kim and Jimmy breaking up. Saul probably could of used knowing Lalo never got killed.
I assume they're like the Mythbusters, Saul is Adam and Mike is Jamie, they don't really like each other but they work together really well.
personally, i think they were capable of being friends in the early seasons of better call saul. thing is, jimmy and mike have always had a purely business relationship. the issue at hand is almost entirely related to the fact that by breaking bad (no pun intended), they were both entirely different people and, more importantly, they were true criminals. if they weren't criminals, a friendship could've perhaps blossomed, but it couldn't.
real, true criminals don't have friends because they go where the money is; they have no more boundaries, and that's where both mike and saul were by breaking bad, as conveyed with better call saul, hence why they were never actual friends. it's honestly one of the sadder aspects of both series' to me because, especially with jimmy, i can't help but always think "what if jimmy had made better decisions and a *few* less mistakes," because he had a genuine heart in before some of the main catalysts that contributed to his transformation to saul goodman (e.g. the mistake with irene and chuck's death)
all that said (and after finishing the video), this is a VERY GOOD analysis. you demonstrate great understanding of both series, the ethics, and their characters, and i find your perspectives to be very agreeable, especially that of most the decline of jimmy and mike's relationship being on saul. keep up the good work!
Mike never liked Saul or respected him. I think Mike first caught a glimpse of who Saul was after he said he was sorry to hear of Chucks passing and Saul brushed it off and started talking about scamming an innocent person.
It seems that Mike disliked Saul. Mike disliked everyone except Kaylee.
Jimmy's biggest friendship moment was spying on Los Pollos Hermanos for Mike and saying "who else is in your corner?...me"
Mike's biggest friendship moment was offering condolences over Chuck's death, and willing to answer Jimmy's time machine question.
Feel like you could just chalk it up to BrBa being made first and BCS being made later. I feel like their relationship would be a little different if BCS was made first or something
Mike loved Jimmy as if he was his brother-in-law.
Hank heard that
Mike’s relationship with Jimmy in Breaking Bad wasn’t an oddity, as Saul provided legal advice for Gus through Mike, and probably would’ve been a lawyer for anyone in that organization.
He even browbeats Mike for using outside council, without telling him.
In BB Saul was shown to be more of a “ear to the streets” for Mike. So I think that’s why Mike kept him around and did jobs here and there for him. Especially since Saul had represented associates of the Salamanca Cartel. Even Gus asks about Saul, as “the lawyer” in BB. I think Mike being intertwined with Jimmy even though he works for Gus makes a lot more sense than it seems.
I don't think Mike had or considered anyone a friend. Jimmy desperately needed friends
As i sit and watch BB for the 100000 time.....i never thought of this from the very first opening credits of the pilot. Walk is standing there with a shirt on, no pants, in the middle of the road with a crashed RV on the side of the road. very very odd if you ask me. The ABQFD goes flying by. No one stops? ok. they are on the way to a fire. BUT do they not talk with the local PD or DEA? Wouldnt that be something they would notice as suspicious? They find the gas mask not to far from there.....Wouldn't Hank have asked knowing that the fire was down the road from where the mask was found if anyone had seen anything? Sure they found crazy 8's car at the fire which lead to the call to the DEA, but why would they not say oh yeah, on our way we saw this RV crashed in a ditch...............Why is this HUGE HUGE point never ever asked about or brought up again? Think about it.
AND one more thing.....who called the fire in? It wasnt Walt as he didnt know it was the FD coming up on him, so who called? Was it the house that was very far away with the Cow House? who called? And that quick????
Wouldn't Mike being a cop see through Jimmy's facade and instantly recognize that he is a compulsive scammer who only cares about money? Mike must have arrested slippin Jimmy types more times than he can remember.
You forgot to mention their interesting conversation about going in the past and what they would change while walking thru the desert.
The way I always saw it wasn't that they were friends, or even friendly, but they had both respect and disdain for each other due to events they both were involved in. They are both in the game, but they also both had lives outside the game, unlike most of the other people they associated with.
3:25 that transition was actually Kino with Jimmy's head being in the same place
With all these Better Call Saul focused vids with Chuck, Soy Boy Lalo and now Mike and Jimmy, Kino are you building to Better Call Saul series logs?
I hope so, I'm in my 6th or 7th rewatch i still don't notice little things to this day (today i found out chuck did the carol burnett ear thing they were discussing, i was focused on jimmy and Rebecca to notice chuck there, likley intentional)
I always thought it was a situation of having to be on the same side- to keep Gus and Jimmy out of trouble (since they also did business together). In this business, the less people, the better. Mike was a person that could keep up communication with all parties and keep distance between them when possible. The more people he worked “for” the more reliable his information is… so it was mutually beneficial between all parties to share one really solid man.
Absolutely fascinating...thankyou for posting :).
I guess Mike was both disgusted at what Jimmy has become but is still attached to tge guy he used to be. So he keeps working gor him occasionaly to keep taps in him, but still gives him a lot of tough live because, well, Jimmy has turned into an asshole.
Was just thinking about this on my recent BB watchthrough.
Remember in season 5 of BB when Mike hired another attorney and Saul got pissed? Just another layer in these 2 guys dynamic.
Mike fs had some respect for season 1 jimmy at the very least
Jimmy said to Kim in S2 E2 that he was helping a friend out. That friend being Mike
Dude this was great!!! Nice video essay!! Keep it up Kino
This is more great content.
I don’t think either of them have what would be conventionally thought of as friends. Dues to personalities and world they exist in. They were “friends” as much as either one was capable of showing any semblance of friendship. They have a certain type of bond from shared experiences. They can relate and share some things between they can’t with other people. Both know they will never have a real friend at this point in there movies. They steal moments of relatability when they can.
Great vid
So, obviously, Mike only did the "small side jobs for Saul" during Breaking Bad because it helped Gus' interest. Even going back to Jane's overdose. Gus was aware of Jesse and it furthered Gus' interest to not have Jesse incarcerated.
Then how did he became his PI before Jesse and Walt?
@@ДенисПечёнкин-х7д did you watch Better Call Saul?
@@travishorton8290 Why did he continue to work with Jimmy after BCS and before BB?
@@travishorton8290 And he wasn't his PI in BCS they just helped each other until they were settled
@@ДенисПечёнкин-х7д exactly. Mike DID do PI work for/with Jimmy in BCS and just continued to do so when Walt and Jesse came around.
Love your videos and hate to be a hater and as fun as theorizing in universe is the obvious answer is that being a prequel the story of their relationship came long after BCS was written.
Here’s a fun question. Which of these two characters have met more main characters? Keep in mind Mike met Eladio & Jimmy didn’t. And Jimmy met/knows Howard but Mike doesn’t.
Mike most likely knows Howard from his work as a Ticket Booth guard at the courthouse, but I'm sure they were small interactions.
Nah it aint that deep. They just had to figure out the best way to make mike and jimmy's relationship happen on better call saul. Breaking bad just had them 2 guys that worked together from time to time without a past. BCS just gave them one.
I mean the real answer for this is obviously breaking bad was first but this is cool too
ALSO!!! if Crazy 8 was an informant for the DEA, why did he never tell them about Jessie? He could have called in before he went to the cook site. He could have told them A LONG TIME AGO who captain cook was. And with that.....when walt went missing, how did hank never put two and two together when he tracked down Jessie's car with the plates....The Captn Huh?????
Great video. Good job man
They were as much friends as Tony Soprano and Johnny Sac were.
I think they were a bit closer to friends than they were. Tony and John liked each other but if either one was to get in the way of the other earning, they wouldn't hesitate to put each other down if there were no other options. Mike went out of his way to save Jimmy's life a few times, even disobeying Gus to do so.
Could you please do a setup tour?
It shows that Mike liked Jimmy more when he was Jimmy and not Saul. After what happened to Howard, he looks at him with nothing but contempt and as an actual pawn in his life and Gus' enterprises.
I think it's just that the writers for BCS were stuck in a corner and didn't have many options on how to handle character writing. When it came time to write their own version of saul post-bb they fumbled hard, so i don't think they were equipped to handle writing a character who ends up less fleshed out in the future.
I would like to see on this channel in the future of the episode reviews of six feet under it is another good show
They seemed closer in BCS than they did in Breaking Bad
7:50 Why would anyone see Gus as someone “honorable”? The show did such a successful scam to the audience that Mike and Gus are honorable good people.
They were in the way of the traditional bickering odd pairings. Other than Kim, Mike was the only person to believe in Jimmy and is disappointed he was hellbent to prove Chuck Right, as Mike was aware of what was going on between them.
It’s a mixture of 3 things for me: firstly Mike lost a lot of respect for Jimmy after he got Howard killed as he wasn’t in the game, Secondly, how he fully embraced his Saul persona after Kim left him showing very little of his previous Jimmy McGill identity, finally due to his continual working relationship with Walter white which he was against from the start and advised Saul not to pursue him, making his life incredibly harder once Gus wanted Walt dead
A way I like to think of it is that Mike had respect or liked Jimmy, but hated Saul/what Jimmy became
Mike works for Jimmy because he is the best criminal lawyer out there. If he keeps Jimmy at arms length, he can use him to help him or anyone in his and Gus's network out of trouble. In all reality, it's a mutually beneficial partnership with nothing else there. Mike doesn't respect Jimmy and Jimmy doesn't have any feelings towards Mike. They're just colleagues.
I almost thought this was Stone Cold vs Eric Bischoff
No. Because Mike threatened Saul in Breaking Bad.
It seemed like they were becoming friends when Jimmy said “Who’s got your back? This guy”
I feel like Jimmy broke bad and lost his humanity, which prevented him and Mike from being friends
They were best friends, like us
Mike is not friends with people like Saul.
I was under the impression that Jimmy was trying to have a brotherly relationship with Mike since Chuck was so hard to impress. However, Mike hated himself too much to have that kind of relationship, so he would push Jimmy away all the time. Also, Mike wasn't impressed with Jimmy's charisma. After the death of Chuck and his divorce from Kim, Saul no longer cared about affection from anyone, viewing it as a weakness.
Mike was willing to be friendly with Jimmy, but Mike would not with Saul.
Obviously is a Plot Hole, writers did not take care carefully the previous roles in Breaking Bad (filmed before Better call Saul) then in Better call Saul these characters are bond due the circumstances. I noticed this also right after watching all Better Call Saul. These two role characters just don't fit (relationship) in Breaking Bad once you watch Better Call Saul.
Mike didn’t have friends
I wouldn’t really call Mike and Jimmy friends. They didn’t seem to have the type of bond where they’d literally stop anything they were doing to help each other out in any situation. I’d say they had a professional relationship that made them respect and care about each other to a degree since they knew enough about each others’ professional and personal issues and statuses.
Obviously they are not friends. They are colleagues and have a closeness and shared histories, but they would never willing spend time with eachother. I have no idea who woupd think they are buddies, it would be like saying gus and mike were friends. It is clearly a transactional relationship.
Short answer: No. Jimmy feared Mike and Mike just despised Jimmy or Saul Goodman as he becomes.
I never understood why they had to make them friends on the show. They should’ve just had a cameo about him and not to make better calls so mad about him he meant like he met the people and the in the cartel all by himself in a few.
nop, but the closest after his best friend pass away
Great ending
Yeah I’m convinced they had sort of a friendship, then Mike said “fuck this guy” after the Howard incident.
My interpretation after all is said and done is that they liked each other well enough tough Mike became less attached to Jimmy the longer he was his „Saul“ character.
He stayed around as a PI tough because he liked the smaller, breathier Jobs from Goodman which are way less dangerous and morally demanding than his work for Gus. Also his „Enforcer“ Job probably never took so much much of his time during peacetime after the Superlab finished and Lalo was dead.
And last but not least it was easy money for him on the side which we shouldn‘t forget was his first motivation in any case.
That way it all makes sence.
Good video 👍👍👍