Take Off at 8,000 ft Density Altitude - C182 Skylane - Mountain Flying - NorCal - ATC audio
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- It's all about patience when trying to get off the ground with a high DA…
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Mountain Flying Training with Jason Miller was awesome!
This is an other of many episodes that I am happy to share from the 2015 workshop!
(Note: CFI = "Certified Flight Instructor" in the U.S. and "Chief Flight Instructor" in Canada)
RELATED EPISODE LINKS:
Birth of a HUGE Wild Fire:
• Birth of a HUGE Wild F...
Landing at 8,500 ft Density Altitude:
• Landing at 8,500 ft De...
Survival after Forced Landing:
• Survival after Forced ...
Search and Rescue friendly Flight Plans + PLBs:
• After FORCED LANDING, ...
Hypoxia Symptoms and Avoidance
• Hypoxia Symptoms and A...
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If you've ever considered doing a mountain check out, I HIGHLY recommend giving Jason a shout!
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FLIGHT CHOPS DISCLAIMER:
I am a "weekend warrior" private pilot, I fly for fun with no intentions of going commercial. I have had my PPL for over 15 years, but still consider each flight a learning experience - I generally take detailed notes after each flight to remind myself what went well or what I could do to improve.... Having the GoPro cameras to record flights like this is invaluable. I find these self analysis videos very helpful in my constant quest to improve, and am happy to share. Feedback is invited; however, please keep it positive.
Am a student pilot from Kenya,Africa and I love your way of tutoring...Am impressed..👏🏼👏🏼♥️♥️.
Your videos are unrivaled in the aviation world.
Right on! Thanks Eric - that quote is going on my movie poster ;)
Love your videos! Inspired me to fly. Currently have 25 hours in a C172 and about to solo! Thanks for being my role model.
+lucas martin - wow - awesome - thanks for the great feedback Lucas!
Steve is role model to a lot of us noobeez. Im sitting at only 7 hours, and i had a few friends helped me to pull the trigger after 40 years of procrasinatink
My homebase in Kentucky is 979 feet. I feel like pilots who fly ga in mountainous terrain have a much different , more complex set of skillsets than lowly near sea level pilots like myself. There are so many aspects of aviation and I am so grateful to be a part of such an awesome group of folks. Always learning. Thanks for your work Steve.
I used to fly my Cessna 150 into Driggs ID. Leave at dawn, light fuel to the next airport, keep under gross weight, lean the mixture to best power. Never had an issue. 50 ftm climb, but it does climb and you have to do a semi circle to get over the mountains.
41c that must have felt like a greenhouse inside the aircraft, great video.
+Brian S Thanks, and yes, yes it did feel incredibly hot on the ground - James nearly got sick on climb out before we cooled the cabin down.
This was my scariest training as well, but I'm thankful for the knowledge living in Colorado. AWESOME vidio. Glad you left the emotions in.
In a community were it is all about sharing experiences, so we can learn from the mistakes of others, your videos are worth watching every minute. Thank you for posting and keeping the production quality on such a high level!
+soaringextreme - thanks for the kind words - I'll do my best to keep sharing this stuff!
Awesome!
I like how even though I started watching your videos as a PPL student, and am now a CPL-ME/IR and CFI, the amount of joy and useful info I get out of watching your videos has just been tremendous since day one! I also know of several 20 000+ hour pilots that also get a kick out of your videos! Truely a channel for EVERYONE into aviation!
Push on, Steve! It's been an honour to have had the chance to see your channel grow into what it is today since the early times of FlightChops! Can't wait for what the future of FlightChops has to bring!
+Eric Lund As always, thanks for being a long time supporter Eric! The channel definitely wouldn't be where it is with out community members like you helping grow it! And wow, you've done well making so much progress with your training! Congrats on that!
Thank YOU! ;)
And also, remeber that your invitation to Norway is always standing! :)
I would suggest that you NOT set your fuel flow at Peak EGT for take off at any high density altitude airport. Enrichen your mixture to about 75 degrees Fahrenheit (F) rich of peak in order to obtain maximum power from your engine. You will still have the fuel flow set quite lean but the engine will produce more power. Look at your engine manufacturers power curves and you will see where peak power - from an EGT standpoint - exists. What a great training video! Please keep it up!
I've been hooked on your videos. I really want to take take lessons and get my ppl but I'm on a bit of a budget with a daughter on the way. but it's always been my dream and I'm hoping I will have the time and money to catch it and make it reality. Your videos are very inspiring to me. You make it not feel like a dream, but it makes me feel like It can be a reality. Seriously, great job dude.
I used to teach mountain flying from Black Forest Gliderport near Colorado Springs. The runway elevation was 7200 feet and 5000 feet usable so we almost always had a density altitude situation. It wasn't unusual to have visiting pilots trying to start their engines on full rich only to have it flood down and quit while belching black smoke. More than a few pilots had to have their passengers take a taxi to COS which was a thousand feet lower with twice the runway length.
I gotta say being a light aircraft mechanic before I got my PPL is a nice advantage
I just became a little bit better pilot just by watching this. This was very useful. Thanks!
Flying since 1967. Good information presented here. Patience and failsafe point good info. Thnx.
Really enjoying the mountain series
Glad to be sharing this stuff! And I'm happy to imagine you watching it in your home theatre of your new house Barry!
I love mountain flying and this video keeps the addiction alive! You and Jason Miller make an awesome aviation duo. Between Jason's podcasts and your videos it makes perfect sense. Thanks cause it makes my day!
fantastic airplane indeed. glad there's the 182 from a2a to enjoy on the sim
Thank you for the great information guys! These types of videos help pilots and save people's lives.
Memories of summer glider flights at Driggs Idaho. Back in the early 90s the glider operation used a vastly under-powered Citabria Scout, and the two person glider needed the ENTIRE 7000 foot runway to get in the air.
On a +85 degree afternoon the density altitude was up around 9000 feet, and on a couple take-offs I swore we'd arrive at the airport boundary fence and need to clear it in ground effect, then settle back onto the grass on the other side to complete the take-off run. Thrilling...yeah. But once in the air and soaring around the Tetons, well....
One of the best videos on density altitude that I have ever seen. What I know, is that if your'e going to take off from a mountain location, do this early in the AM while the air has some depth and pith to it. Have heard of stubborn doctors in burning trees because of not understanding, density altitude. Thanks enjoying this.
Somebody commented on TH-cam that God invented airplanes to cull the world of doctors and lawyers.
Yea' how about that?Ha ha
Pretty sure I just watched every single on of your videos in a few days. Inspiring stuff. Hoping to start flight school in 2016 or 2017.
So awesome! I love feedback like this! Thanks Alex!
I'm an old retired P pilot. I used to fly Cessna 150's from my home base in Nairobi, Kenya which is 5500 ft ASL. On hot days with a short runway I used to have the mixture semi lean. Flaps 10%. Then rev up to max with brakes hard on. Release brakes and as the she gained speed, I deliberately kept the nose down so as to pick up speed quicker rather than allow the nose to rise causing drag. When the speed was well and truly sufficient, I gently lifted her off.
Your videos are very high quality. Keep up the phenomenal work!
+Rum Ham Thanks! Happy to keep sharing!
I got my PPL in a 172 in Montrose while living in Telluride. My instructor would constantly push the importance of density altitude. We did a takeoff from Montrose (5789') with a temp of 94 degrees and density altitude of 11,000'. Very scary. Anyway this is a course I would love to take now living in California. Excellent video.
Similar story here, planes were based at Albuquerque and I soloed at KAEG. Pretty much all of my flying has been in the high desert. Just gotta do the calculations and fly the numbers, is all. Funny thing is, I flew our mountain trainer to Phoenix after I got my PPL, and taking off from Chandler in the morning felt like having rockets attached to the wing struts!
Really enjoy the challenging environment Flight Ops videos you post - Jason Miller explains some of the mountain ops challenges faced really well. Hope to see a lot more collaborative videos including his expertise on high density altitude ops. Cheers
man these videos have come a long way, they are getting really impressive. love my @flightchops
Thanks for the friendly feedback :)
These videos keep getting better and better. Thanks for making them!
Keep up the good work!! Your videos are awesome!!!! Greetings from Brazil!
Great video as usual. Totally agree Patience is the key to a good high DA takeoffs. looking forward to the next video.
I had an old school instructor that tnaught me not to rotate. Just put the nose in position and let it fly when it gets ready. That is a great, safe way to take off in most conditions.
Great channel! You have an excellent voice for voice over as well. Looking forward to more.
+Marc Cretten Thanks Marc!
Excellent work Steve. I'm proud o be a Patreon supporter.
+Paul Carstens Thanks Paul! I look forward to working with you again soon!
I know this is an old video... but my buddies and I would drive up to Lee Vining/Mamoth. I had a turbo Toyota pickup... and as we would get up towards the top of the pass... it was full throttle, and could hardly build any boost. It's amazing how little power an engine will make.
I live in Denver CO and high density altitude flying is my life every time i fly. It adds a extra pucker factor when your only getting 150 to 200 FPM climb.
I really enjoy your flying and your videos, really cool stuff, very well done!! Thanks for making them! Safe skies!
+djvectrex thanks! happy to share!
Awesome videos! Always learn something new that I can apply to my flying and pass along to the folks I fly with.
Nice timing. Just moved from Philly to Denver and am going up for the first time this weekend to continue my PPL.
+Patrick DelBarba Who are you training with? My home airport is KAPA.
+Patrick DelBarba At some point you need to fly to fly up to Leadville (with a mountain flying CFI and not solo!)
@@aviator1552 I have taken 2 intro flights out of KAPA. I am actually monitoring ATC communications there now while I am 'working' Can you personally recommend a school or instructor that operates from KAPA?
Thanks! Another nice review I can always use. I'm planing to head back to Lee Vining (O24; 6,802') airport in the next nice stretch of weather--well before those summer temps set in. Mono Lake, right next to the airport is so awesome!
+Sting Flight - Thanks Sting!
all those supplies and noone brought sun cream? ;) great video, really enjoying the series!
+robdave1 Haha - oh we had the sun screen - just didn't mention it in the videos - I think the red face issues was more of a colour correction thing than the way we really looked
ive done all my training in truckee, ca. and im glad i did because ive learned so much about density and wind shear. nice to see you here
A really excellent video. We all can learn a lot from you guy's and increase our safety while flying. Thanks !
Another GREAT video. Thanks!
Man, the Skylane is an awesome aircraft...
I love the skylane
Great advise for anyone who flys a Cessna 150 at any altitude!
Love your videos! I always smile when watching them. : )
I appreciate hearing that the videos make you happy ;)
Truckee airport! i was there the past winter. Amazing, full of memories
High density altitude training is a good idea. I never took any, and it almost bit me more than once having learned and being based out of an airport at 16 feet elevation about 1,000 feet from the Pacific Ocean.
Steve, thanks for the great video! My parents operated the FBO at Mammoth (MMH) in the 1980s.
Labor Days the Mammoth Air Force would present an air show and host a mountain flying program like the one in your video. It was hot and the runway is 7,100 ft. Density through the roof.
Maybe see you at Oshkosh this year? I’m brining my father with me. He’s got thousands of hours flying in those mountains in everything from C172, Turbo C206, Chieftan, and Turbine Commander. Blue Skies. 👋🏻
Another great video!
I fly out of YBW, sits at 3940 MSL. Kind of high altitude, however on a hot summers day, when the DA is 6000+ you can definately notice.
Nice video. Was surprised to not hear anything about building speed in ground effect, unless I missed it. Also, saw dennis' stearman is up for grabs. Hope everything is ok and that he's just upgrading planes.
+cencalmatt Thanks Matt - yeah - I guess we could have said it more explicitly... but that was sort of why in that first one I waited before "pulling" - I kept it in ground effect for a while to accelerate. As for the Stearman... If you ask Dennis, he'll tell you everything is for sale for the right price :P I'm hoping it doesn't sell, but with the weak CAD these days, it would be a really good deal for Dennis to have an American buy it.
Try taking a C130E to Bogota Columbia and work with 8500ASL. Fun times!!
I fly out of a high elevation field (KCMR @ ~6,700ft) in my C182P with density altitudes commonly 9,000 and higher. I was taught to adjust mixture for DA during runup -- not sitting out on the runway {eeek!!}. Run the rpm up to 2000, lean mixture by half-turns until rpm's drop, give half-turn rich or more until back solidly at 2000, then I give her three more half-turns. I usually have a stallion ready to leap into the sky by then. Hold those brakes!! Just my $0.03.
I used to fly with my boss in a Cessna 185. From Quincy Ca airfield. 4000 ft runway at approx 3500 ft elevation. In the summer we experienced days at excess of 100-110 degrees F
I was his "go to" certified welder. Our normal destination was some crazy remote Nevada desert site with NO acceptable landing field. We landed on rough roads/skecthy desert flats. Just to get to the job site. My best life threatening moments were then LOL.
He actually let me fly several times...never at landing but many take offs that were EXTREMELY sketchy at night with truck lights for runway lighting. Scarey as hell but satisfying as hell once I got lift and clear.
Interesting one again, thanks.
Takeoff technique sounds like what I have to do at "normal" DAs in my low-end Socata Rallye (100 hp, 770 kg MTOW). That thing hardly goes above 7500 ft with one person, so with a passenger it's always anaemic :)
For what it's worth I prefer this kind of ad for the prize draw to the avatar in previous videos. Others' preferences may differ. Keep up the good work, I really enjoy your videos.
+pinkdispatcher Thanks my friend. "Little pop-up Steve" isn't dead... I'm just saving him so he doesn't become predictable :)
Something i get to deal with a lot, even as a student pilot- field elevation is already 7000 feet, and density altitude is regularly above 8000 or 9000. Definitely makes me appreciate going lower
Laughs in Utah... DA in the summer mornings is over 8000ft. Mid day is over 10,000ft. Actual ASL is 5260. Gotta know how to handle it for sure!
Ha... funny.... coming from sea level into angelfire NM, in a twin comanche, I remember an engine quiting as we cleared the active. Now I know why. Gotta get back into the mountains.
Absolutely brilliant video, this was excellent :)
Great series. Well put together. Wish I were there. :)
Great Vids! Ive only flown in Utah (R44's/172's) with DA's of 8400' going up to 9600' during the summer with wind and hot temps, I wonder what its going to be like when I finally return to Michigan and fly. Keep up the vids! Blues skies!!
Thank you
My home airport is at 6,800ft and density altitude is common to be around 8,000-9,000 - I expect to be really surprised by the gain in performance once I get my ticket and explore lower elevations!
Great videos
amazing content, keep em up!!
+YoungHils VLOG Thanks! Happy to share!
6:20 "If you don't have 70 percent of your rotation speed by the halfway point of the runway, you should abort the takeoff. You're not going to make it."
I've got some bad news. Even if you are at 70% of your rotation speed by the halfway point of the runway, you probably aren't going to make it. This rule assumes constant acceleration, so that distance travelled is proportional to the square of speed attained. However, acceleration actually decreases in a piston prop as you go down the runway. So you will be at less than rotation speed at the end of the runway. Another problem is that if you use this rule on a long runway (say 7000'), you will probably not have enough power to climb out of ground effect if you only attained 70% of your rotation speed in 3,500 feet in a piston prop.
It would be more appropriate to say that you should have 75% of your rotation speed by one half of your calculated ground roll.
I was raised in bishop and worked at the airport in high school. Now In school for my A&P.
As a pilot based in Northern Colorado, the thought that people find an 8,000 foot density altitude bizarre is quite odd to me, haha!
Its not rare to see an 8,250 foot density altitude during the summer here, especially in the hot and humid summers that we're so accustomed to seeing here.
Well ya, you're based in Colorado, of course you're gonna have high da days......lmao. To everyone east of Denver, 8000 da is rare or they've never seen it
i first started learning in a C182 at an airport at 7000' that usually had a density altitude of 8000'. for about a year of flying i had never been at an airport lower than 4000' until i went to oshkosh which is near sea level. when i took off from that airport i swore it felt like flying a rocket
8000ft DA is nothing. I fly out of KAPA Centennial airport in Denver. Field elevation is 5800'. At 75F we are already above 8000' DA. On a hot 90 deg day we are over 9000'. Your video is still very good and put together well. We just get a chuckle since we normally fly in these conditions and when we go up to the mountains can fly in DA off the charts.
+Robert Greenlee I have not been flying much at all in the last 20 years, but this video and your comments make me think of my (and my dad's) experiences with DA on a trip around the west in *August* of 1978. Grand Canyon, Carlsbad NM, Co Springs, Leadville!!, Denver, Rock Springs. I was 13. Oh... and even though we owned a 1976 PA32R Lance... we did this trip in a Warrior. :)
In the middle of that trip, when we arrived in Denver, my dad had to make a quick business trip to Peoria. We flew Ozark Airlines - wahoo!. The heat didn't phase us being from California, but it was 100F at Stapleton at 7PM when we were boarding the DC9. There were a lot of empty seats on the plane and the captain announced after departure that the heat meant we left some passengers and fuel behind. Denver to Peoria in a DC9.... and we had to stop for fuel in Des Moines. Good times.
This is sweet. I live in Colorado so I'm gonna learn mountain flying- and this helps a lot! I really love your videos man, I've been wanting to make videos like this. (Hope you read this haha)
+FlightChops , what brand of beer was that at the end? i know unrelated....lol , Awesome video by the way! Keep em coming!
Haha - I have no idea what beer that was. I just know it tasted REALLY good after a big day of flying :)
Operating at peak EGT can be bad. Better to be 100F rich or peak to protect engine.
I was in a skyline the other day full fuel 87 gal and 4 people including myself. POH stated not to go past 32 inches manifold. Density altitude at SL was 2,000 feet. I only got 550 fpm climb. Seems kinda ironic for a plane with a certified ceiling of 20,000 feet.
I look forward to your videos every other week, may I suggest making longer videos? I'm sure you have tons of footage with more awesome material to share! 10 minutes just doesn't do FlightChops justice!
Thanks! After extensive testing and research, I have found the sweet spot for retention and engagement to be under 15 mins. And I can only continue to make new videos if the old ones are successful which helps generate sponsor revenue and interest for funding future production. I do share longer / uncut stuff with the hardcore fans via the Patreon feed.
Awesome, just signed myself up!
+Cole - Wow - and that was a massive pledge! I just sent you the standard "welcome / thanks" email! Let me know what you think of the existing "exclusive stuff" and if you'd like to see anything different there. I have a lot more flexibility as to what I can share on the private Patreon feed, as I am not aiming for a wide audience there.
'Angle of attack indicator' might be helpful.
Love your videos!
Been a subscriber for a while and I must say your videos just keep getting better and better! If you're ever around Niagara Falls or at Niagara District Airport (CYSN) give me a shout! I'd love to meet you and talk some flying! -Austin
Awesome - thanks!
I would love to attend this training
+Steve Camden Go for it. It's a hoot! Just pack some warm clothes, since it gets *cold* overnight at Truckee.
If you don't have your FAA license it's OK since you'll have an instructor with you at all times.
+Laura Halliday Thanks for answering that one Laura - for sure - I did the course before I had the FAA PPL. (and agreed about the cold nights! But it was SO nice to have a hot shower in the morning :)
At first, the term "high density altitude" confused me. I thought it meant altitude where the air is dense, but actually it means opposite, you are at high altitude where air is thin aka low air density.... silly me :D
Not silly, it makes sense. Aviation has weird terms like that, like “near miss” when talking about airplanes nearly colliding
It's because most people don't pronounce the hyphen. It's "high density-altitude". Density altitude is the equivalent altitude that the current conditions are creating. A very hot and humid day at sea level will have air that's only as dense as "standard" air at a few thousand feet.
Excellent
nearly 50k!
That's were a turbo comes in handy.
I personally don't get why you have less subscribers than +Mr.Aviation101. His videos are so boring, he almost never replies to important questions and comments, and he's just no fun. You always have great videos, and I liked this one in particular. Great editing; keep it up!
Thanks! With this channel I am not comparing to others... I'm keeping my head down and doing my own thing. Remember, at this point Flight Chops is only 2.5 years old. So based on the growth rate I think we're doing fairly well :)
***** I think that you'll pass him in the long run; unless his videos get much better and more...immersive. Thanks for your response!
Great video. I remember my first experience with real DA numbers. As a flatlander, we don't normally worry about it. It will bite you if you're not ready for it. On a side note, I found the Stearman for sale. What's up with that?
+Cherokee140Driver If you ask Dennis, he'll tell you everything is for sale for the right price... :P It's been listed a while though - tough market, and he has the nicest out there.
The pilots in Mexico City, they take off everyday at 7500 ft... Or 8120 ft in Mexico City also, in Atizipan, they do it everyday...
What a great video. I'm still a student pilot and live in the Pacific Northwest. I had no idea that it's recommended to leave your engine lean when landing at high density altitude. Thanks for the great videos. Go Seahawks. #BoseA20
This opened my eyes to a lot about high altitude operational and procedural differences that exist here. As someone on the beginning of the trail, rather than a person of your experience or any good pilot with tons of hours,,, I ask a ton of questions as I dont have that experience. When you say high altitude and high density in the same sentence it throws me a little. High altitude would seem to me to be "Low density" wouldn't it? I dont mean to sound ignorant, but the higher you go is not the density of air thinner?
This is why Cessna sells a turbocharged version. 🙂
Awesome video. We would recommend all pilots to subscribe to this channel!!
I think I can,
I think I can,
I think I can .....
Fantastic as always I'm a better pilot for watching your videos
+Lars Bjart - wow - I really appreciate this awesome feedback Lars!
It would be nice to see this done in say 160hp airplanes, i.e 172 or cherokee.
+Gary G agreed - that would be an interesting demo.
150/152 with 400lbs. would even be more interesting.
Excellent video and training for you guys for sure... didn't know that much about high attitude flying ...I'll stick with the lower attitude.
First! You are awesome man!
Excellent video. Question: why aren't you using some flaps on TO? Wouldn't that increase your lift at lower airspeed?
Adding flaps decreases the lift/drag ratio of the wing. Available prop thrust is already suffering due to high DA, so the last thing you want to do is add more drag to kill your climb rate. In any event, you should follow the guidance in the aircraft manual. I note that the 182 manual does not discourage the use of up to 20 degrees flaps at any takeoff altitude, especially if obstacle clearance is an issue.
I'm consistently flying at 8000ft density altitude at KAPA, 172s and PA28s suck at that DA lol
Didn’t know Chris Elliot was a CFI