I use high protein keto to manage my autoimmune illnesses, alongside a boatload of medical drugs. It might not be ideal for hypertrophy BUT when I'm not on keto, I can barely leave my bed. It absolutely works to help lower my inflammation and gives me the best chance at a "normal" life. I'm still hitting at least 1.8g/kg protein per day and slowly making gains. For a lot of people with AI illness a very low carb or keto diet is a way to manage illness ,not just lose weight.
@@ekroizmI'm sure the op has experienced Prednisone. Steroids in the anabolic spectrum usually negatively impact AI conditions. Dbol and deca are hard on IBD patients.
Same. Keto saved my life. If it means it's not ideal for hypertrophy, so be it. I'd rather do what I need to be healthy to manage my condition than have more/faster gains.
I will say this. 30 years ago I was getting ready for a bodybuilding show. I was 6% per skin fold calipers. Following a low fat diet, high protein, med carb diet I was stuck. I switched to 5 steaks with salad a day got stronger and dropped 2 % body fat. As Ive aged I seem to be less carb tolerant.
For fat loss, any diet coupled with strength training can work. Low cab diets are very applicable to those of us that have insulin resistance or type 2 diabetes. Eating low carb and low sugar means needing less insulin, which helps reduce insulin resistance. As a side benefit eating low carb and needing less insulin results in lower conversion of carbs/sugar into body fat. A low carb/sugar diet will also help with your cravings and carb addiction, as you will be burning ketones, from body fat, instead. If you are metabolically healthy, any diet will work. If you are T2 diabetic or prediabetic, consider a low carb diet, even if it is not as optimal for muscle growth.
None of it matters in the long run. What matters are the fundamentals: Consistency of diet and exercise, energy balance and sleep. There is no real reasom to avoid carbs, unless medically indicated. If so, it is not carbs fault, but some other underlying bodily issue. Demonizing carbs is equally problematic as it is to demonize fats because one could eat a jar of peanut butter or a big chunk of butter.
I think some people are concerned about getting diabetes when they're significantly overweight and adding carbs. Honestly, weight loss and exercise will help lower A1C.
Most of these studies don’t examine fitness specific low carb high protein ketogenic diets. They also assume that gluconeogenesis is a supply driven process when it is not. I’ve generally found high protein ketogenic diets which don’t put you in as deep of ketosis far superior to balanced diets.
@@KaikuHidiaki keto was designed with patients with mitochondrial disorders or enzyme deficiencies who can’t process carbohydrates, not optimized for muscle growth. There’s a lot of research on building muscle and fat loss on higher protein ketogenic diets (ketogains protocol) both on here and on the Reddit group.
@@drizzt3117 I'm talking about actual real scientific articles, meta analysis or even just narrative reviews. Can't really use reddit as a source. Would be interested if u actually had real research behind the claim
I did carnivore for 10 months and I had a notable loss in gym strength and muscle size. And that was with 200g protein. When I added carbs back in, strength and size went up. I never tried keto macros - I was too afraid to drop the protein grams too low. Great video - thank you!
In order to keep/gain muscle on carnivore, you need to be in a surplus. And you can still consume carbs in the form of milk and honey. I gained strength on carnivore while losing body fat. And I’ve lost strength while consuming plenty of carbs. But it all comes down to what works for you, and what has worked for me. And what works for others. You have to do you.
@@Clobercow1 I’ve tried all diets, I understand basic dieting, I’m 220 @ 15% bf right now. I’ve been as low as 8% @ 195 lbs. but some diets are easier to do than others. But that’s based on personal preferences. And carnivore is easy to lose weight and gain or maintain strength.
I more curious about reducing premature aging, reduce disease risk, and better cognitive functioning w/ muscle and performance. Which diet can do that longterm? Is there a specific nutritional formula for that.
Definitely a moderate to high carb, high fruit based and lower protein diet. Tons of energy and fruit like blueberries etc are the only associated food shown in studied to directly fight against alzheimers and dementia.
I don't think anybody doesn't like consuming carbs to be fair. They wouldn't start raving about keto if they weren't naturally consuming much carbs if at all. People usually go for keto because they like carbs way too much and got fat, but aren't able to control their intake because they like carbs so much. And let's be fair, their carbs aren't coming from veggies and fruits. Like name a keto spokesperson who didn't eat yummy stuff but had a nice 50% of their plate from salad ingredients and snacked on fruits. It's not exactly a shocker they found getting rid of their sugar intake did wonders in every aspect. It's also always good to consider that people have different reactions to keto, and the ones that stick to it and speak for it are usually not the ones that feel lethargic and unable to train because of being on keto. Or the ones that don't struggle to construct their daily meal plan with the keto restriction. I can't comment on it, but some have even suggested that many pro keto people aren't following what's defined as keto functionally, and might not even count their macros, ignoring that they eat some carbs happily. So they would be more of low carb flexible dieters. However, given that some keto foods are very hedonistic, those guilty pleasures of going to extremes, and that it's just difficult to not lose weight on keto, it can be a very practical choice. If you tolerate it well. As a sidenote I used macrofactor until last fall and it was easily the best food tracking app I've seen. I used it for both weight gain during training from 82 to 90 kg and weight loss back to 82 kg. Both felt like a breeze because it was so easy to track and macrofactor kept up with my dynamic life changing energy expenditure, I always managed to keep the direction the right way towards the goal. The reason why I stopped using it was because I wasn't actively changing my weight during school year and paying for a longer time was noticeably more economical, but a student can't afford that lump sum. Would still recommend 5/5 based on what the condition of the app was 1-2 years ago and the app not knowing a lot of barcodes in my country. Simply because of how easy it was to track and observe goals and the plan, but also how dynamic it was when you didn't follow the set plan, it didn't get confused and when your energy expenditure changes, the app just rolls with it and adapts, it becomes very accurate at that so you can trust the calorie estimate and don't have to give it guesses on your activity or anything.
I focus on getting enough protein and fat to build muscle and stay healthy. Then I fill the remaining calorie needs with carbs. That leads to lower carbs when trying to get lean and higher carbs if I'm doing an epic hike. Extremes either way aren't usually good for the majority of people
Thanks for all you do, this is clearly one of the best evidence-based channels on training. One piece of feedback though, I am not personally a fan of the fake "thats the video" moments, it was funny at first, I suppose.
Keto for 2 years to manage autoimmune and IBS, got into crazy shape but couldn't grow a lb more.. eventually reintroduced carbs and felt like I went thru 2nd puberty. No carbs for that time though, has allowed my stomach lining inflammation to reduce and heal. I would have still been sick, or even dead by now without it. That said, in the bodybuIlding world, why aren't more people doing a year of keto to explode on their gains when they come back to carbs?
0.6g of fat per kg of body mass may be sufficient and healthy. But personally I need around 0.9 to manage my hunger and end up with around 2g of carbs per 1kg of body weight. Is it bad?
No. There isn’t exactly an optimum. 0.5 to 1g /kg for fat sounds fine from what nukols told me. 2g/kg protein. Rest from carbs. Watch your total calories of course
I think this video makes the common mistake when equating the efficacy of low fat and low carb diets for fat loss: not taking into account the effects on hunger. Even in light ketosis, hunger goes way down due to a healthier balance of ghrelin, leptin and other hormones that influence hunger. This makes it easier to eat a sensible amount of food, compared to high-carb diets where you tend to feel frequent hunger spikes that can lead to binge eating.
I do not know what the studies say but for me, anecdotally 100% a low carb diet is trash. Cant deliver the same intensity nor volume nor frequency. This makes my strenght stall hard. No thank you. In my brain, whether true or not, high frequency high carbs is an anabolic as fuck combo.
@@promo130 yeah to be honest if you lift and unless you for some reason need to be medically put on a low carb diet, It just feels like a gigantic waste of time. Trash sleep, trash recovery, trash work capacity. Makes 0 sense
Η καρνιβορ δίαιτα δουλεύει θεϊκά για εμένα για χάσιμο λίπους και μυϊκή ανάπτυξη αλλά είναι πανάκριβη ... Ήθελα τουλάχιστον 1.5-2 κιλά κρέας +10-15 αυγά τη μέρα 😅 να νιώσω πλήρες Είμαι φαγανο παιδί 😅
I learned about these dudes from one of the anabolic window's podcasts. It was named something like "Mike Israetel is WRONG?". I went straight to the comments ready to fight lol
I feel like you're stating the obvious here without realizing it. If you want gains, you need to be at a surplus. People that do keto for weight loss are at a deficit. The reason people work out on keto is to prevent the loss of lean body mass while losing overall weight. If a few gains are made along the way that's great! But for the majority of ketards out there the goal isn't maximizing gains.
First off, the carb / insulin model resulting in obesity is not debunked. There are no shortage of examples of people eating unlimited calories and losing fat on keto compared to eating unlimited calories on a SAD diet where they gain fat and health issues. That's extremely telling. We know how keto works, how it affects hormonal responses to food, how it affects hunger, appetite, satiety etc. It has clear advantage. The fact that you can make gains on keto goes to show that it really is the cure-all diet, especially when you factor in the incredible anti-inflammatory benefits. But this is about muscle growth. Ok. Carbs are slightly better in that regard. However, when taken to the extremes, even in very fit people, they can develop metabolic syndrome because of the sheer amount of carbs they eat. You'll be hell bent to find anyone who gets worse health by over eating on keto, if you can find anyone who can manage to push past the constant feeling of fullness, lack of appetite etc. Here is the deal. Having to count calories to keep fat loss down is fairly stupid. Sorry. But it is. We know that keto prevents people from overeating in the majority unlike carb heavy diets. If your diet natrually causes you to over eat, it's not the correct diet. So let's stop pretending a carb heavy diet is the default. It's not. Never has been. Our biology just doesn't support that conclusion. Also can you stop, seriously, stop, misrepresenting the keto community with all of this fear mongering shit? It's bad faith and it's getting old as hell. The data clearly shows that if everyone went keto, the obesity rate would drop from the over 40% value it is in the USA. Oh but no one can stick to it? No one tends to stick to any diet, but when they do, keto has huge benefits to keep people on it. Unlike SAD / Carb heavy diets. Keto is not FAD diet like you and others make it out to be. No one can stick to a diet when they're constantly being bombarded with sugary advertisements all day, every day. You can't walk into ANY store and not be pounded over the head with high sugar bullshit. In other words, this is a man made problem via a man made environment, and that's not the fault of the diet. It's the fault of people. In the end, I agree that carbs are fine IF, and it's a HUGE IF, you control them. But that's a big problem for the general public isn't it? Sure, meth is OK when it's controlled in the form of a prescription right? That never backfires ever right? So instead of telling us carbs are king, how about we reveal the truth. The general public doesn't need them, and for the general public, reducing carbs is a huge boon to health. So here is my advice. Default to keto to maintain weight and health. Add in some carbs, sparingly, for sports performance, but don't over do it. If you're getting fat, cut the carbs. Best of both worlds instead of this nonsense false dichotomy that seems to be going around.
Not one mention of any papers by those in the top of the research e.g.Noakes, Volek, D'Augustino. And from a glance no mention of papers brought up on this topic by Dr Nick Norwitz. Stronger by failing at science communication?
The video is focused on low carb diets and resistance training, specfically looking at muscle growth outcomes (mentioning the latest meta-analytic evidence on the topic). Was there anything said that you disagree with?
@@Dr__Pak You wouldn't expect much changes in bodyweight in trained individuals in 11 weeks so dismissing that data off-hand like that seems rather dubious at best. There isn't any support for the claim of adding 50-100g additional carbs for a 'best of both'. But you make that assertion anyway. There are other metabolic health benefits to LC and VLC diets that you do not mention. In Metabolic characteristics of keto-adapted ultra-endurance runners by Volek et al. fat oxidation is higher in the low carb group. This also means you make no mention of keto-adaptation which is a huge flaw in your overall argument and as I can't see the second paper in full I can only assume that, that may be a confounder to the results. This study also demonstrated the muscle glycogen did not differ which is often a 'reason' why VLC is worse for strength. You didn't mention recent work like Effects of Resistance Training Combined with a Ketogenic Diet: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis by Sinott et al. Which again indicates there's no attributable loss of muscle or strength regarding VLC diets. Which leads me to questioning your research methodology for the video? So yes your conclusion is fine in a nutshell but it lacks nuance which is necessary with this. I also think covering some of the individual studies rather than the broad meta-analysis might have given some insight into different scenarios. This reminds me of how ChatGPT can get an answer correct but can't correctly reason how. I'd love to see Stronger By Science talk to Nick Norwitz on this subject.
I wrote out a lengthy response pointing out some missed concepts and discussions. Unfortunately lost to the TH-cam bin. My gripe was more the assumptions made and the bias. Ultimately I agree there's basically no difference once fat adapted. Ultimately I'd like to see a discussion with Nick Norwitz.
Been keto since 2019 , carnivore last 3 .. added 30 lbs muscle over last 5 years at 51 years old . Roughly 8 % body fat. ( 100% natural ) Of 3 macros glucose is unneeded . Body makes it using gluconeogenesis. I’m no scientist but plenty of literature exists explain that fatty acids and ketones are much more efficient used as fuel and in the production of ATP, while releasing almost no oxidative waste products ( unlike glucose) ..
If they are much more efficient then why does your body PRETTY MUCH EXCLUSIVELY USES GLUCOSE FOR ENERGY AND YOU HAVE TO PRETTY MUCH COMPLETELY STARVE IT OF GLUCOSE FOR IT TO GO THR KETONE ROUTE? Your diet is a retarded meme, admit it and move on.
While I won't argue over your results as someone that did keto in the past I think there are a few nuances in what you said. Yes if you go keto your body will use gluconeogenesis. But that is a very little, nowhere near what you usually take in your normal diet. (I don't recall the figure but if the recommendation is something like 400g of carbs your body was able to produce around 100g and most of it was to be used by the brain . Because glucose is the preferred source of energy for the brain . Saying ketone and fatty acids are more efficient is misleading. If you do high intensity exercise we have proof of the superiority of carbs. Ketones are great for ultra ultra ultra endurance activities. Efficiency matters very little it's about the output . So the best fuel is the fuel that best suits your activities. For most exercises I'd say you should lean more towards carbs and not fats. (terms and conditions may apply). "While releasing almost no oxidative stress (unlike glucose)". Citation please. This just sounds something between fear mongering and mechanistic speculation. What do you mean by this? That sounds bad, but is it actually? And is it actually true? And even if it is, what is the actual outcome? Not the mechanism
I’ll have to look it up (it was in my ISSA strength and conditioning material ) .and send it .. but being carnivore and no carb I’m so used to the mainstream promoting high carb I was shocked to see the literature in my study material … but silently I was smiling on the inside. I’ve read arguments just like yours but personally I do not feel carbs are beneficial at all .. I perform heavy resistance training 4 x per week hiit and functional training 2 x and zone 2 on my 1 active rest … no carbs at all .. beef , beef liver , cooked in beef tallow , whole eggs , unflavored whey .. that’s it .. I’m 51 , 165 lbs 7-8% bf .. people ask if I’m cutting or on gear … nope I just do what I do and eat what serves my purpose ..
Ps .. they were attributing glucose metabolism as “ browning “ or like oxidative / rusting your internals … because of the water and carbon dioxide produced as waste … I’m pretty sure fatty acids and ketones don’t produce harmful waste
Under these circumstances, acetyl-CoA is diverted to the formation of acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate. Acetoacetate, beta-hydroxybutyrate, and their spontaneous breakdown product, acetone, are known as ketone bodies. The ketone bodies are released by the liver into the blood… these are ketone waste products
I use high protein keto to manage my autoimmune illnesses, alongside a boatload of medical drugs. It might not be ideal for hypertrophy BUT when I'm not on keto, I can barely leave my bed. It absolutely works to help lower my inflammation and gives me the best chance at a "normal" life. I'm still hitting at least 1.8g/kg protein per day and slowly making gains. For a lot of people with AI illness a very low carb or keto diet is a way to manage illness ,not just lose weight.
Exactly the same and maintain 6-8 percent body fat year round with zero cravings and love every meal
Have you thought about using steroids?
@@ekroizmI'm sure the op has experienced Prednisone. Steroids in the anabolic spectrum usually negatively impact AI conditions. Dbol and deca are hard on IBD patients.
Same. Keto saved my life. If it means it's not ideal for hypertrophy, so be it. I'd rather do what I need to be healthy to manage my condition than have more/faster gains.
thanks for the info.
I will say this. 30 years ago I was getting ready for a bodybuilding show. I was 6% per skin fold calipers. Following a low fat diet, high protein, med carb diet I was stuck.
I switched to 5 steaks with salad a day got stronger and dropped 2 % body fat. As Ive aged I seem to be less carb tolerant.
For fat loss, any diet coupled with strength training can work. Low cab diets are very applicable to those of us that have insulin resistance or type 2 diabetes. Eating low carb and low sugar means needing less insulin, which helps reduce insulin resistance. As a side benefit eating low carb and needing less insulin results in lower conversion of carbs/sugar into body fat. A low carb/sugar diet will also help with your cravings and carb addiction, as you will be burning ketones, from body fat, instead. If you are metabolically healthy, any diet will work. If you are T2 diabetic or prediabetic, consider a low carb diet, even if it is not as optimal for muscle growth.
None of it matters in the long run. What matters are the fundamentals: Consistency of diet and exercise, energy balance and sleep. There is no real reasom to avoid carbs, unless medically indicated. If so, it is not carbs fault, but some other underlying bodily issue.
Demonizing carbs is equally problematic as it is to demonize fats because one could eat a jar of peanut butter or a big chunk of butter.
I think some people are concerned about getting diabetes when they're significantly overweight and adding carbs. Honestly, weight loss and exercise will help lower A1C.
Most of these studies don’t examine fitness specific low carb high protein ketogenic diets. They also assume that gluconeogenesis is a supply driven process when it is not. I’ve generally found high protein ketogenic diets which don’t put you in as deep of ketosis far superior to balanced diets.
So... Not keto 😂
It's not superior my guy, not a single study points toward keto being better for muscle gain and/or fat loss
@@KaikuHidiaki keto was designed with patients with mitochondrial disorders or enzyme deficiencies who can’t process carbohydrates, not optimized for muscle growth. There’s a lot of research on building muscle and fat loss on higher protein ketogenic diets (ketogains protocol) both on here and on the Reddit group.
@@drizzt3117 I'm talking about actual real scientific articles, meta analysis or even just narrative reviews. Can't really use reddit as a source. Would be interested if u actually had real research behind the claim
@@KaikuHidiaki saying "my guy" is mongrel behavior
@@KaikuHidiaki It's still keto, just not 100% keto all the time. Eating more protein on Keto doesn't make keto not keto.
I did carnivore for 10 months and I had a notable loss in gym strength and muscle size. And that was with 200g protein. When I added carbs back in, strength and size went up.
I never tried keto macros - I was too afraid to drop the protein grams too low.
Great video - thank you!
In order to keep/gain muscle on carnivore, you need to be in a surplus. And you can still consume carbs in the form of milk and honey. I gained strength on carnivore while losing body fat. And I’ve lost strength while consuming plenty of carbs. But it all comes down to what works for you, and what has worked for me. And what works for others. You have to do you.
Sounds like you had issues with understanding basic dieting.
@@Clobercow1 I’ve tried all diets, I understand basic dieting, I’m 220 @ 15% bf right now. I’ve been as low as 8% @ 195 lbs. but some diets are easier to do than others. But that’s based on personal preferences. And carnivore is easy to lose weight and gain or maintain strength.
I more curious about reducing premature aging, reduce disease risk, and better cognitive functioning w/ muscle and performance. Which diet can do that longterm? Is there a specific nutritional formula for that.
Definitely a moderate to high carb, high fruit based and lower protein diet. Tons of energy and fruit like blueberries etc are the only associated food shown in studied to directly fight against alzheimers and dementia.
I don't think anybody doesn't like consuming carbs to be fair. They wouldn't start raving about keto if they weren't naturally consuming much carbs if at all. People usually go for keto because they like carbs way too much and got fat, but aren't able to control their intake because they like carbs so much. And let's be fair, their carbs aren't coming from veggies and fruits. Like name a keto spokesperson who didn't eat yummy stuff but had a nice 50% of their plate from salad ingredients and snacked on fruits. It's not exactly a shocker they found getting rid of their sugar intake did wonders in every aspect. It's also always good to consider that people have different reactions to keto, and the ones that stick to it and speak for it are usually not the ones that feel lethargic and unable to train because of being on keto. Or the ones that don't struggle to construct their daily meal plan with the keto restriction. I can't comment on it, but some have even suggested that many pro keto people aren't following what's defined as keto functionally, and might not even count their macros, ignoring that they eat some carbs happily. So they would be more of low carb flexible dieters. However, given that some keto foods are very hedonistic, those guilty pleasures of going to extremes, and that it's just difficult to not lose weight on keto, it can be a very practical choice. If you tolerate it well.
As a sidenote I used macrofactor until last fall and it was easily the best food tracking app I've seen. I used it for both weight gain during training from 82 to 90 kg and weight loss back to 82 kg. Both felt like a breeze because it was so easy to track and macrofactor kept up with my dynamic life changing energy expenditure, I always managed to keep the direction the right way towards the goal. The reason why I stopped using it was because I wasn't actively changing my weight during school year and paying for a longer time was noticeably more economical, but a student can't afford that lump sum. Would still recommend 5/5 based on what the condition of the app was 1-2 years ago and the app not knowing a lot of barcodes in my country. Simply because of how easy it was to track and observe goals and the plan, but also how dynamic it was when you didn't follow the set plan, it didn't get confused and when your energy expenditure changes, the app just rolls with it and adapts, it becomes very accurate at that so you can trust the calorie estimate and don't have to give it guesses on your activity or anything.
I focus on getting enough protein and fat to build muscle and stay healthy. Then I fill the remaining calorie needs with carbs. That leads to lower carbs when trying to get lean and higher carbs if I'm doing an epic hike. Extremes either way aren't usually good for the majority of people
Thanks for all you do, this is clearly one of the best evidence-based channels on training. One piece of feedback though, I am not personally a fan of the fake "thats the video" moments, it was funny at first, I suppose.
Keto for 2 years to manage autoimmune and IBS, got into crazy shape but couldn't grow a lb more.. eventually reintroduced carbs and felt like I went thru 2nd puberty.
No carbs for that time though, has allowed my stomach lining inflammation to reduce and heal. I would have still been sick, or even dead by now without it.
That said, in the bodybuIlding world, why aren't more people doing a year of keto to explode on their gains when they come back to carbs?
The trick with keto for fat loss is that, when done correctly, it dramatically decreases hunger
0.6g of fat per kg of body mass may be sufficient and healthy. But personally I need around 0.9 to manage my hunger and end up with around 2g of carbs per 1kg of body weight. Is it bad?
No. There isn’t exactly an optimum. 0.5 to 1g /kg for fat sounds fine from what nukols told me. 2g/kg protein. Rest from carbs. Watch your total calories of course
Everyone Is different.
I think this video makes the common mistake when equating the efficacy of low fat and low carb diets for fat loss: not taking into account the effects on hunger. Even in light ketosis, hunger goes way down due to a healthier balance of ghrelin, leptin and other hormones that influence hunger. This makes it easier to eat a sensible amount of food, compared to high-carb diets where you tend to feel frequent hunger spikes that can lead to binge eating.
Been on keto since 2016 with carbs topped out at 75g a day
The key word is “low carb” not necessary keto. 😊
I do not know what the studies say but for me, anecdotally 100% a low carb diet is trash. Cant deliver the same intensity nor volume nor frequency. This makes my strenght stall hard. No thank you. In my brain, whether true or not, high frequency high carbs is an anabolic as fuck combo.
Indeed, muscles need glycogen, no carbs great for skinny noodles not for building muscles
@@promo130 yeah to be honest if you lift and unless you for some reason need to be medically put on a low carb diet, It just feels like a gigantic waste of time. Trash sleep, trash recovery, trash work capacity. Makes 0 sense
100%
Wasn’t 0.5g/kg fat intake the minimum sir?
0.5g/kg is also totally fine, thus the "around 0.6g" mentioned on the video.
Η καρνιβορ δίαιτα δουλεύει θεϊκά για εμένα για χάσιμο λίπους και μυϊκή ανάπτυξη αλλά είναι πανάκριβη ... Ήθελα τουλάχιστον 1.5-2 κιλά κρέας +10-15 αυγά τη μέρα 😅 να νιώσω πλήρες
Είμαι φαγανο παιδί 😅
First?
Just commenting before the video even begins. You guys need to watch anavoliko paratthiro. With subs on. Even if you are greek
First to be called gay
I learned about these dudes from one of the anabolic window's podcasts. It was named something like "Mike Israetel is WRONG?". I went straight to the comments ready to fight lol
I feel like you're stating the obvious here without realizing it.
If you want gains, you need to be at a surplus.
People that do keto for weight loss are at a deficit.
The reason people work out on keto is to prevent the loss of lean body mass while losing overall weight.
If a few gains are made along the way that's great! But for the majority of ketards out there the goal isn't maximizing gains.
great
First off, the carb / insulin model resulting in obesity is not debunked. There are no shortage of examples of people eating unlimited calories and losing fat on keto compared to eating unlimited calories on a SAD diet where they gain fat and health issues. That's extremely telling. We know how keto works, how it affects hormonal responses to food, how it affects hunger, appetite, satiety etc. It has clear advantage. The fact that you can make gains on keto goes to show that it really is the cure-all diet, especially when you factor in the incredible anti-inflammatory benefits. But this is about muscle growth. Ok. Carbs are slightly better in that regard. However, when taken to the extremes, even in very fit people, they can develop metabolic syndrome because of the sheer amount of carbs they eat. You'll be hell bent to find anyone who gets worse health by over eating on keto, if you can find anyone who can manage to push past the constant feeling of fullness, lack of appetite etc.
Here is the deal. Having to count calories to keep fat loss down is fairly stupid. Sorry. But it is. We know that keto prevents people from overeating in the majority unlike carb heavy diets. If your diet natrually causes you to over eat, it's not the correct diet. So let's stop pretending a carb heavy diet is the default. It's not. Never has been. Our biology just doesn't support that conclusion.
Also can you stop, seriously, stop, misrepresenting the keto community with all of this fear mongering shit? It's bad faith and it's getting old as hell. The data clearly shows that if everyone went keto, the obesity rate would drop from the over 40% value it is in the USA. Oh but no one can stick to it? No one tends to stick to any diet, but when they do, keto has huge benefits to keep people on it. Unlike SAD / Carb heavy diets. Keto is not FAD diet like you and others make it out to be. No one can stick to a diet when they're constantly being bombarded with sugary advertisements all day, every day. You can't walk into ANY store and not be pounded over the head with high sugar bullshit. In other words, this is a man made problem via a man made environment, and that's not the fault of the diet. It's the fault of people.
In the end, I agree that carbs are fine IF, and it's a HUGE IF, you control them. But that's a big problem for the general public isn't it? Sure, meth is OK when it's controlled in the form of a prescription right? That never backfires ever right? So instead of telling us carbs are king, how about we reveal the truth. The general public doesn't need them, and for the general public, reducing carbs is a huge boon to health.
So here is my advice. Default to keto to maintain weight and health. Add in some carbs, sparingly, for sports performance, but don't over do it. If you're getting fat, cut the carbs. Best of both worlds instead of this nonsense false dichotomy that seems to be going around.
For the algorithm
Not one mention of any papers by those in the top of the research e.g.Noakes, Volek, D'Augustino.
And from a glance no mention of papers brought up on this topic by Dr Nick Norwitz.
Stronger by failing at science communication?
The video is focused on low carb diets and resistance training, specfically looking at muscle growth outcomes (mentioning the latest meta-analytic evidence on the topic). Was there anything said that you disagree with?
@@Dr__Pakhe’s just keto and this doesn’t support his views
@@Dr__Pak You wouldn't expect much changes in bodyweight in trained individuals in 11 weeks so dismissing that data off-hand like that seems rather dubious at best.
There isn't any support for the claim of adding 50-100g additional carbs for a 'best of both'. But you make that assertion anyway.
There are other metabolic health benefits to LC and VLC diets that you do not mention.
In Metabolic characteristics of keto-adapted ultra-endurance runners by Volek et al. fat oxidation is higher in the low carb group. This also means you make no mention of keto-adaptation which is a huge flaw in your overall argument and as I can't see the second paper in full I can only assume that, that may be a confounder to the results. This study also demonstrated the muscle glycogen did not differ which is often a 'reason' why VLC is worse for strength.
You didn't mention recent work like Effects of Resistance Training Combined with a Ketogenic Diet: A Systematic Review and
Meta-Analysis by Sinott et al. Which again indicates there's no attributable loss of muscle or strength regarding VLC diets. Which leads me to questioning your research methodology for the video?
So yes your conclusion is fine in a nutshell but it lacks nuance which is necessary with this. I also think covering some of the individual studies rather than the broad meta-analysis might have given some insight into different scenarios.
This reminds me of how ChatGPT can get an answer correct but can't correctly reason how.
I'd love to see Stronger By Science talk to Nick Norwitz on this subject.
I wrote out a lengthy response pointing out some missed concepts and discussions. Unfortunately lost to the TH-cam bin. My gripe was more the assumptions made and the bias. Ultimately I agree there's basically no difference once fat adapted.
Ultimately I'd like to see a discussion with Nick Norwitz.
Cherry picked bs
Been keto since 2019 , carnivore last 3 .. added 30 lbs muscle over last 5 years at 51 years old . Roughly 8 % body fat. ( 100% natural ) Of 3 macros glucose is unneeded . Body makes it using gluconeogenesis.
I’m no scientist but plenty of literature exists explain that fatty acids and ketones are much more efficient used as fuel and in the production of ATP, while releasing almost no oxidative waste products ( unlike glucose) ..
If they are much more efficient then why does your body PRETTY MUCH EXCLUSIVELY USES GLUCOSE FOR ENERGY AND YOU HAVE TO PRETTY MUCH COMPLETELY STARVE IT OF GLUCOSE FOR IT TO GO THR KETONE ROUTE?
Your diet is a retarded meme, admit it and move on.
While I won't argue over your results as someone that did keto in the past I think there are a few nuances in what you said. Yes if you go keto your body will use gluconeogenesis. But that is a very little, nowhere near what you usually take in your normal diet. (I don't recall the figure but if the recommendation is something like 400g of carbs your body was able to produce around 100g and most of it was to be used by the brain . Because glucose is the preferred source of energy for the brain . Saying ketone and fatty acids are more efficient is misleading. If you do high intensity exercise we have proof of the superiority of carbs. Ketones are great for ultra ultra ultra endurance activities. Efficiency matters very little it's about the output . So the best fuel is the fuel that best suits your activities. For most exercises I'd say you should lean more towards carbs and not fats. (terms and conditions may apply). "While releasing almost no oxidative stress (unlike glucose)". Citation please. This just sounds something between fear mongering and mechanistic speculation. What do you mean by this? That sounds bad, but is it actually? And is it actually true? And even if it is, what is the actual outcome? Not the mechanism
I’ll have to look it up (it was in my ISSA strength and conditioning material ) .and send it .. but being carnivore and no carb I’m so used to the mainstream promoting high carb I was shocked to see the literature in my study material … but silently I was smiling on the inside. I’ve read arguments just like yours but personally I do not feel carbs are beneficial at all .. I perform heavy resistance training 4 x per week hiit and functional training 2 x and zone 2 on my 1 active rest … no carbs at all .. beef , beef liver , cooked in beef tallow , whole eggs , unflavored whey .. that’s it .. I’m 51 , 165 lbs 7-8% bf .. people ask if I’m cutting or on gear … nope I just do what I do and eat what serves my purpose ..
Ps .. they were attributing glucose metabolism as “ browning “ or like oxidative / rusting your internals … because of the water and carbon dioxide produced as waste … I’m pretty sure fatty acids and ketones don’t produce harmful waste
Under these circumstances, acetyl-CoA is diverted to the formation of acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate. Acetoacetate, beta-hydroxybutyrate, and their spontaneous breakdown product, acetone, are known as ketone bodies. The ketone bodies are released by the liver into the blood… these are ketone waste products