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they only control us because that second amendment hasn't been exercised enough. The founding fathers were very intelligent men. They also warned us about central banks/fiat currency.
Just wanted to point out you forgot to mention Brown at the beginning. Great video though, very informative and accurate (full disclosure: I went to Brown for grad school)
I thought this was pretty spot on. I think most of the Ivy League success comes from people who come from families that are already wealthy, not individual merit. As someone from a middle class background who through athletics got a scholarship to Deerfield Academy and then went on to be a recruited athlete at an Ivy. Internships and job opportunities have more to do with family connections than your grades.
There are still opportunities for those who earned their place based on merit. The system isn’t perfect but it’s still more meritocratic than other countries. The cream does rise to the top.
I would also say that ivy leagues don’t have much to offer; if you are autodidactic, it is usually better to study topics on your own with online resources.
That is not my lived experience regarding internships and job opportunities. Perhaps (generously) 200 people in my Ivy graduating class got some kind of job help via family connections, and that is across all fields, not just finance/consulting. What IS messed up is how early you need to be investment-banking-conversant to get an IB internship now that recruiting has moved up so early. You should talk more about that.
Very true. I currently attend what many may consider an ivy plus (Emory) and the opportunities we have are simply amazing. I have friends at ivy leagues and I wouldn’t say there’s too much of a difference in the opportunities we get. I’m a sociology and data science major and am currently set to make at least 100k post-grad in consulting…which mainly targets these ivy/ivy plus schools. As someone that comes from a poor background, it’s a crazy reality! Both of my roommates parents graduated from MIT and they’ve recommended me for a few internship opportunities. Crazy stuff! I’m forever grateful
@@ajamoore6540 regionally, I think Emory is exceptional. However, I think the Ivies unique advantage is their networks that expand far beyond their local areas (something Emory does not have).
As an Ivy alum, this is largely accurate, but somewhat understates just how massive the divide is between people there on pure academic merit and not from a feeder school (my crowd) and people there for any other reason. If you're there on raw merit, you're probably going to dramatically outperform your coworkers after graduating, especially outside of the "tracked" professions (management consulting, high finance, big law, academia, etc). But the networking benefits only really apply to the non-academic crowd, unless maybe you're a real social butterfly and become best friends with one of them. But since the two categories have little overlap in coursework or extracurriculars, there aren't a lot of opportunities for that. And personality wise, the general consensus from my social circle was that the two groups might as well be from different planets. You do get an automatic boost applying for jobs at very specific companies or in very specific careers, but it's relatively small. If you want to work outside of the "tracked" careers, you basically are only getting the advantage of being more competent and receiving excellent financial aid. It does make a career transition into the more "tracked" areas way more realistic though.
What do u mean the networking benefits only apply to the non-academic crowd? And are you saying that if you go to an ivy league, but are outside some of the tracked “” careers that you feel like it’s less worth it and you get less of a boost?
Also Greek clubs are another “secret society” where people make connections. I even hear that many Greek clubs have answer keys to past exams which senior students pass down to junior students, and since many professors do not update their exams every semester, those in the Greek clubs have a competitive advantage since they already know the answers, while everyone else had to study hard to receive decent grades.
This isn't a secret, most frats and sororities have past exams. I wasn't in a frat but my friend was and gave me access. Now a days I'm sure there are past exams for courses posted online as well.
Every instructor knows this. Back when I taught chemistry I used to have review sessions for the whole class where I'd cover past exams so not only those who were in clubs or had access to them knew what was going to be on the exam. On the more difficult math classes I had the instructors would give previous exams and you could sit with them to go over the especially hairy problems
@@raul0ca I’d say most students forget at least half of what they learned after the exam. Only those with a passion for learning will eventually integrate what they learned into their own framework. That’s why PhD is called a Doctor of Philosophy, because you are supposed to have a “philosophy” of your own.
Of course that at every school the older students know what is at the exam. It’s up to everyone to be proactive and make friends to get their experience.
I was a supervisor at an Ivy League school and these kids are extremely focused on their academics. Most of the first year and second years have never even been on a date. Furthermore, the resources and tools that these students get access to is vast. Business students have access to Capital IQ, Factset, and Bloomberg terminals.
To be fair, most people in my highschool or university have never been on a date here in Finland. That's because everyone is an incel today, and afraid to talk to people at that age, and Finns are very introverted
I thought my Ivy League law degree would be my ticket into the ruling establishment class but being short and having Chinese DNA closed more doors than the Ivy League degree opened. I was tolerated by the establishment elite overlords so long as I knew my place, which was to do all the grunt work that enabled the establishment's wealth, power, and prestige.
I have friends who are trying to enter one institution that belongs to the ivy league from abroad and they are almost for sure going to fail because they are white men from Europe. In their application they have to sob and make themselves victims to earn a shot against the "marginalized" women from other continents who have lower grades. The world sucks so much ass. Your experience sucked but DEI is also straight garbage.
I find that there are two feedback loops in play. The first is how Asian Americans are expected to be the “model minority”, which is clearly not a complement. It suggests the idea of hard work, obedience, and “knowing your place”. But meanwhile, a lot Asian parents also value those things and indoctrinate their children to be obedient. So in the end, you are being taken advantage of both your hard work and lack of assertiveness.
Chinese in CA here, couldnt speak for others, but personally I will never jump back into the self pitty hole again, when u put everything against you because of race and looks, whole world turned against u which is not true and enjoyable. But I find many times ask and show up matters way more than sit for a hard degree and expect things to happen. Hard world we living in(24M)
I wouldn't say we are a caste system yet, as even Ivies can be accessed via merit. However, I have been considering doing a video about the possible formation of one in the Western world.
@@AFNickI’d like to see the data on how likely a non-recruited-athlete non-legacy non-Jewish white heterosexual cisgender male with no disabilities and who comes from a lower-middle to middle class background is to be accepted to the Ivy undergrad programs compared to other demographics with equivalent GPA and standardized test scores.
@ I’d love to know just how underrepresented. I was accepted, but I was a recruited athlete. I never met one from that particular demographic, even with perfect test scores, who was accepted. That’s why I ask.
They were billionaires because they come from wealthy families that can afford the cost and prep to get into Ivy League not because Ivy League produce billionaires.
Great video as always! Wanted to provide an interesting quote I read on the internet: "Attending an Ivy-Plus instead of a flagship public college triples students’ chances of obtaining jobs at prestigious firms and substantially increases their chances of earning in the top 1%." Many people say that those who made it into the ivy league by merit would have been successful going to a state school. I honestly think that's a bit facetious. I went to an ivy and knew many low income / first-gen students who would have never even learned about investment banking or consulting if they had attended their flagship state school. For first gen / low-income students an ivy league degree has immense benefits. That being said, due to class barriers there are many good students who are not able to attend these institutions.
The biggest difference is between the elite boarding schools and public schools. John Taylor Gatto investigated it and made a video about it. Some of the things I remember him saying about boarding schools: 1) From a young age, lots of writing without much emphasis on grammar rules (that comes later), just write! Write a diary or personnel journal, write fictional stories too. For example, you can start with a dog, a cat, and a horse, and write an adventure story about them. Write a lot! 2) Public speaking, they push public speaking from a young age. The audience can be 2-3 people sitting on a park bench, doesn't matter! 3) They learn about all the major religions of the world, public schools - no religion at all. 4) an understanding of human nature: what makes people tick. 5) The classics, learning how to think for yourself, the trivium. Grammer, rhetoric, and logic. unheard of in public schools. 6) Access to people of different professions, truckers, Plumbers, cops, doctors, local politicians, etc, etc. Write them a personal letter asking to shadow them for a day or more. There's more, but that's what I know off the top of my head.
While teaching catholic parochial school junior high I also guided canoe trips at a Canadian youth camp whose clientele were heavily enrolled in elite boarding schools. You are correct in your assertion that there is really no comparison between public school and boarding school. For one thing kids who go to boarding school feel like they own the world, which is not to imply that I found this to be disagreeable.
I really recommend reading about Pierre Bourdieu’s theory of habitus, economic, cultural, and social capital. Connections fall into the social capital category. People from different class backgrounds also tend to have different “habituses”. For example, people like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg can afford to make riskier decisions such as dropping out of college, because they were born in upper middle class families and have plenty of safety nets to fall back on if they fail, and this effects their risk assessment.
Some colleges are outside the Ivy League but are informally Ivy League schools, universities Stanford University, MIT, and Duke University just to name a few.
I would add the University of Chicago, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Berkeley to that list too. UCLA, Notre Dame, and UVA are close, to the cut line as well.
@@AFNick I've published a peer-reviewed paper on university endowments. I can tell you that is correct, it can make more sense by looking at the size of the university endowment. This is a fascinating topic. Having worked in academia and having lived in China the Ivy League schools come up. My conclusions are graduates are marginally better at being students, and no better at being employees. Ppl want degrees from there for their own self image or prestige. It's similar to college sports, while many come from strong programs like Alabama football or Duke basketball, it's not a lock they were inherit the earth. Unless you're from the higher class going to an ivy is preparing you to be a great worker bee, much like the Chinese guy says above.
As a Yale graduate, I can testify that it is neither privilege nor merit. It is pure luck. They have categories of people that they are looking for, and if you check the particular boxes that they are looking for when your application comes up, then you're in. If you don't, then you're out.
@@AFNick Sure, you have to have prime qualifications, but ALL applicants have those, or they don't even bother to apply. That can't be called 'merit' because if it were just merit they'd pick the top X percent based on SATs and grades. But if you're part of that pool, it's just a lottery.
@@AFNickIt would reduce their prestige. Prestige schools are like luxury goods, the more they cost and the less they admit, the higher their perceived value
You are the most important TH-camr on earth. This isn't an understatement man. The work you do for shedding light on money is more important than any entertainment nonsense anybody can consume.
Another observation is that undergrad degree from an ivy or stanford is way more valuable than a grad degree. It first sounds nonsense but going to ivy for undergrad shows that there's a good chance that you are coming from a certain background. You also build stronger bonds with your friends which will become your network soon.
@@AFNick undergrad admissions is also more biased towards raw IQ and writing ability while grad admissions will reward professional experience and time management more
My grandfather went to Princeton, then Harvard Law. Unfortunately he didn't offer any guidance in my education or application process... probably because he went to Princeton, then Harvard Law. I don't know about the graduates of today but his generation is of the hippie era and such people do not believe in dynasties. Maybe some of them grew out of it but those that I know never let go of their left-leaning activism, himself becoming a Civil Rights Lawyer. Ironically, he's a straight white man so he is now facing a lack of tolerance in the very field he chose to pursue.
My parents are that generation. I hate that generation. I have never seen a generation before or since that was so resistant to information. Also they are the most selfish generation I have observed. The generations I have personally observed are the ww2 generation, the silent generation, baby boomer generation, millennials, gen Z, gen A, and I am young Gen X. Did I mention that I hate boomers? I really do.
Love that this topic is being covered. I’m currently reading this book called Ebony and Ivy by Craig Steven Wilder which covers the history and founding of American Universities, specifically the Ivy Leagues. Very interesting, thanks!
There are certain hierarchies in universities, there are the Ivy League plus, then bellow there are the flagship state universities, and below that there is the second tier state university then come for-profit universities.
This explains the grading system at ivy’s where everyone gets a good GPA. If you graded on a curve, the half who aren’t top students would get crushed and the money would and status would stop flowing in.
I'm surprised that you didn't include Brown. The U.S. treasury secretary and many others in prominent positions went to Brown for their liberal undergrad education. Bank of America's CEO, Brian Monihan is also a brown alum. As an aside, I have noticed that a number of left leaning think tanks funded by the Rockefeller foundation (John D. Rockefeller Jr graduated from Brown) and left leaning media outlets (CNN was created by Ted Turner, brown alum) tend to have links to that school. Andrew Yang who is best known for pushing universal Basic income, is also a graduate of Brown and Columbia Law. I find it interesting that a lot of left leaning ideology can be linked to some affiliation with Brown.
I grew up lower class and graduating from Cornell university (1999) changed my life I would never be financially upper class now if it wasn’t for my experience
I went to Brown for my Masters degree and worked as a research scientist at the University shortly thereafter. I can tell you from first hand experience that success post grad depends a great deal on how much you’ve networked and/or participated in certain clubs while a student and also how much you’ve kissed ass.
Due to ny circles I have come across a few people who studied in the Ivy league schools. They have to always plaster around where they studied. The only guy that's pleasant is from Thailand and he never mentioned that he went to Yale. Someone else told me about it. He is by far the most accomplished out of the rest and his dedication to his family is absolute.
Important work you're doing here, Nick. And thank you for that. You're very knowledgeable. My take is that the fact that the majority of Ivy Leaguers are not legacy students shows that while the League may be responsible for assimilating the preferred members of the lower class into the upper (ruling) class, it is not itself the main mechanism by which the ruling class is maintained. The ruling class is that group of people who make rules others follow. Correlating to the three factors of production, land, labor, and capital, these are landlords, bosses, and capitalists, who establish rules for tenants, workers, and debtors. Their positions are maintained through the privilege of private property and inheritance. Ivy Leaguers represent the elites of the ruling class and offer a means of class mobility to elites of lower classes, so that through their acquired titles of nobility, essentially, they can gain access to the factors of production instead of solidifying into "counter-elites." Ruling class elites are basically the executive members of the ruling class. Lower class elites, if not assimilated into the ruling class, become counter-elites, such as labor, tenant, and debtor organizers, in efforts of socialism or anarchism, and are usually themselves assimilated instead into the managerial class through "business unionism" or "yellow unionism," despite their original opposition and refusal of full assimilation into the ruling class.
If you come from a disadvantaged background, then chances are you have to think differently from the way your parents think. You don’t want to inherit their “habitus” (read Pierre Bourdieu) or else you’ll not be able to achieve upward social mobility, because their “habitus” certainly contributed to their poverty.
I will always say go to your local community college. 1. It’s cheaper 2. It’s equip for the local market, mine is FRCC and they are very aware of what local employers want in the workforce. 3. That degree is probably similar in value to Ivy League degree 80% of the time.
I saw this during my matriculation at an Ivy (Business School). I’m not from a wealthy background and a minority. Scholarships and grants enabled me to attend. My experience was eye opening and the networking/connections made are the sole advantage. It can be seen as unfair with the leg up you get at an institution like this. It does open doors and has surpassed my expectations in terms of investment & ROI.👨🏽🎓
Holy crap. I knew Ivy League held an advantage over the rest of us, but not THIS much. I know you said otherwise in another comment, but as someone who comes from a half-broken family in the Deep South, this analysis screams "America's caste system."
I ended up working at a prestigious SV law firm where a solid half of the partners came from Ivy League law schools. I was worried I was going to be out of my league since I didn’t get into an Ivy. And … it was a non issue. I never felt I was outclassed by any other lawyer. It’s not that they aren’t good, it’s just that you can’t tell by meeting or reviewing their work product. I think we can make gross distinctions in intelligence with testing, but you can’t tell the difference between someone in the top 5% or top 10% through testjng. At all.
In India, its IITs and IIMs. Interestingly, most of the IIT Students immigrate to the US for higher opportunities. That's why you see, many corporations like Google, McKinsey are run by IITian as CEO or founder. (4/11/24)
Very interesting topic. One exception to the private school advantage is the New York public magnet schools. Stuyvesant, Bronx School of Science, Brooklyn Tech, etc. Stuyvesant, for example, has an Ivy League acceptance of 25%.
@ probably boarding school for the networking opportunities and lighter workload. If you are focused on STEM, you might get better internships and research opportunities at Stuyvesant, though. But many if not most of the people who go to the top magnet schools in nyc come from families from the working or low middle class. They also get into top 20 schools at a similar rate as the elite private schools. So it’s a great opportunity that allows people from less privileged backgrounds move up.
I turned down Brown in favor of Stanford (for a graduate program in Political Science). Stanford is the reigning “it” school, but I lost the opportunity to gain the imprimatur of a true Ivy League education. I had no legacy factor in my favor nor any connection to an endowment contribution. I also earned what most would consider a “sub-Ivy” M.S. at Johns Hopkins University. I work at the MITRE Corporation as a Principal Consultant.
@AFNick “it’s who you know not what you know” Merit: Quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward Any successful individual I’ve ever met who has any humility at all has acknowledged they are only there because others have them a chance, even if they weren’t the best. Labor data shows networking is more important than direct skills or ability. Merit is literally not as good as soft skills and connections. Usually people with lots of money hire others who have lots of money or at least can fit into their social and financial class network. It’s not rocket science, it’s a social science. The marketing of an individual is with average ability can and will beat talent because of how humans socialization works. (This doesn’t include any protege level of talent/skill as that is an outlier statistically) But who knows. Idk I’m just a dumbass on the internet
I’m just nitpicking the use of “merit” I have no real qualms with your takes, I mean I’m watching your channel so you got some things good to listen to
Man I can relate to this to some extent ,I myself graduated from a top undergrad school in my country and the sentiment shared is here. As of now, I am in a law school that is considered up there in the country too ( biggest thing I notice is how they fill up government positions fast!)
One of my high school friends went to an Ivy League school, which was unusual for kids from my small town public schools (even though we had a good school system). She wasn't a genius or high achiever/intellectual nor was her family wealthy. Her mom knew how the application system worked, so she got in. Anyway, at her first job out of college in the mid 1990s she was making 6 figures as a project manager in tech--about $330,000 in 2024 money. She had no skills or knowledge in the field that would justify that--I don't remember her major, but it was probably something like English literature. It took me several years working in STEM, then in tech, and racking up credentials and publications/patents to make as much money as she did just starting out as a doofus new grad. It seemed like just another "track" system like the high school AP/college track sets people up for a professional job.
I can't help but notice that rates of legacy admissions to these organizations haven't been affected by "diversity" initiatives. I also can't help but recall that the first "Woman of color" to be a Professor at Harvard Law was Elizabeth Warren. I have had the privilege to work with HYPMIT geniuses, Nick here reminds me of them. Unbelievably diligent, competent, and driven people. I've also had the misfortune of "working" with Ivy grads who grew up wealthy, marry wealthy, and will die wealthy. Great video.
There are definitely some billionaire grads linked to Brown. I will admit that I have a bias against left leaning elite schools and I took a little pleasure in the report that Brown Alum, Barry Sternlicht, (who is a Billionaire) real estate mogul, threatened to withhold additional donations, after Brown students demanded that Brown divest. Apparently, he donated 20 or 30 million+ to the school and was disappointed with how the school handled the students. Additionally, I discovered after doing some more research that the very left leaning NY Times is also linked to Brown. The NY Times is owned by the Ochs-Sulzberger family and I wasn't surprised in the least to find out that A.G. Sulzerber graduated from Brown in 2003. He is a fifth generation member of the Ochs-Sulzberger family and currently in the position of Chairman and publisher of the NY Times. I honestly think each ivy school serves different purposes. I think Brown produces a lot of left leaning graduates, who play a major role in the left leaning culture creation. I do not think it is shocking or surprising that when I did research on the B.E.T. network, which played a massive role in popular culture creation along with MTV (which had a slew of Brown alums that were producers/writers/reporters, during its heyday.) I discovered that Debra Lee was the CEO of B.E.T. during its most important years (2005 - 2018). And of course Debra Lee is a graduate of Brown, as well as the Harvard Kennedy school and Harvard Law school. She is currently on the Board of Warner Brothers. Please tell me, is this merely a coincidence?
No mention of US Military Academy; Naval Academy or Air Force Academy. They produce some outstanding well balanced/rounded persons too…. And I never met an Ivy League graduate (or Stanford; MIT; Johns Hopkins; etc.) in the military.
There are plenty of Ivy League veterans, and they are very common in politics. Notable examples include JD Vance, George W. Bush, Pete Buttigieg, and Ron Desantis
West Point, AFA, and the Naval Academy are up with there with the Ivies in terms of prestige, but the service requirements narrow the pool of applicants.
@@AFNick yet in 30 years of service I never met one. For example, Graham and Desantis were lawyers… not trigger pullers. I knew a number of USMA graduates but never MET an Ivy League graduate.
There absolutely are officers who did undergrad at ivies. They primarily commission through ROTC, but I've met a doctor who did undergrad at Princeton. It's just not advertised because...well its the military and your undergrad isn't relevant(unless its from a service academy or other military academy)
In my experience, legacy does not matter, I was a double legacy to an Ivy League university through both of my parents with a 2300+ SAT non superscored and very high gpa with AP classes, self studied AP tests, numerous 800 subject tests, president of my school’s debate team, etc, and I did not get in. From my parents wide social network of Alumni families, I only knew two kids my age who got into the school as legacies, both of them claimed to be Hispanic on their application, one had a Cuban parent and the other was a double legacy that reclaimed Spanish citizenship through Sephardic ancestry. I think that most successful legacy applicants also found some way to fit into some diversity group so as to allow the university to meet its legacy quotas and diversity quotas, even if the legacies fudge the story a bit on just how ‘diverse’ they are. I ended up going to a top 50 school in the country and absolutely regret it. Even being at a christian school, and being in the business school there, I found myself exiled from pretty much all social networks for my conservative political beliefs and I didnt fit in with the unserious Greek life kids which were the only social groups that were not explicitly political groups that didn’t exclude right of center students, but does exclude nerds. And those explicitly political groups that are against the university’s cultish consensus have meetings that are basically like funerals with how depressed everyone is being at the university. Anyway, I left college with very few useful social/business connections from the experience, I ended up underemployed taking a low starting salary where I had coworkers without college degrees, but thankfully older people went to college before it was an ideological indoctrination center, and I have risen up the ranks of my company pretty fast. I would not recommend that anyone who is not willing to fully buy into leftist ideology go to an elite college because you will certainly find yourself isolated, you will not get the vaunted ‘connections’ - you will in fact be shunned, and you will have to pay government-backed-loan-inflated tuition for the privilege. Start your career early, I could be the same place I am now years earlier if I did that, if you want to party you don’t need to pay for classes to do it, and you won’t have a title 9 kangaroo court breathing down your neck if you sleep with someone either.
It’s so true! Most of US universities, not just Ivy League, are a Propaganda Department of the same one political party in their country. Their researchers are biased, dissidents silenced and thrown out, even beaten. Inconvenient research projects are de-funded and shut down. The Old Money and most of billionaires go with it as the Dems policies guarantee their survival. Billionaire class is aligned with underclass against Middle Class.
I’ve gotta say the schools are like organisms which will try to reject you like a virus if you don’t fit in. Conservative political beliefs are big right now, but there are other characteristics they will get you on otherwise. I was lucky to be in school back with old school liberals who would simply mark you down a grade for giving the correct but not popular answer. 😂🤣 Went to the Army which was full of Conservatives, but had a bias against high IQ and my personality as measured by the Myers Briggs test. Never really fit in anywhere because there was ALWAYS influential people who wanted to get rid of me. The best I could do was either be in a company where I wasn’t one of the higher IQ people (elite tech) or a smaller company where the owner realized my value and protected me. Still, through all that, I avoided so many of the calamities that ruin normal people’s lives because I was just smart enough or wise enough to see them coming before they really hurt me. So, it worked out fine for me.
Nick - sorry if I missed it - I am curious if you have coined a name for your American Class Hierarchy conception/model. If you Google the term, it only shows single-pyramid traditional models, and yours is quite novel (in a good way), so it would be nice to know a specific term/phase if one exists. It would also help people credit you if/when others reference your model, now and in the future.
I came up with it myself and just call it the American class hierarchy model or the dual pyramid of social class in America. If it needs a more unique name, call it the Pardini Pyramid of Social Class 😂
The term “corporate culture” is a way of saying “If you didn’t attend an Ivy (or at least a Pac 10) school you won’t fit into our corporate culture/won’t be invited to the yacht parties, wine tasting events, and won’t fit in. Sorry, that’s going to keep you from many jobs.” I went to a state university and found this to be true whether it was a law firm or a non-profit. Actually, non-profits are worse. Doesn’t matter that I was an honors student and the best in my class at my “low tier” university. I didn’t fit in with the elites.
I am from the UK and i am applying to Princeton for physics PhD. Not going to lie this video doesn’t give me much hope, even if ranked first place in undergrad, with research experience. Though UK has some issues with Oxford and Cambridge for similar reasons. I applied to Cambridge for undergrad and got rejected, however I have to admit they mostly only care if you’re are smart and interviews tend to be asking really hard questions in the subject you are applying for. There is still some benefits for being rich (but almost no benefits for being legacy).
Exactly… because people are okay with other Ivy leagues admission schemes (that benefits whites) except affirmative action which they believe benefits the race they don’t want in their school.
You forgot Brown University. I did not attend an Ivy League institution. Yet, I did have 1 teacher from Harvard. Being a San Francisco native 🌁, most of my teachers who received a degree from a major research institution are from Cal or Stanford. You are right ✅.
11:30 this is a great point - what does it mean socially that all nine Supreme court judges are from Harvard or Yale? Will they all protect their common class interests? (Of being priviledged Ivy League students)
Merit in this case equates to robotic talent. I’m not gifted at the formalities of writing for academia. I can write papers that my teachers enjoy, but I had never learned how to write researched material on the level of a researcher. I think that it does require a certain talent, and robotic mindset. I struggle just to follow instructions but I have managed to make how I function in school work for me. Most of life isn’t reliant on people educated by Ivy League schools. Those schools are useful in churning out high level worker bees who can perform mentally strenuous tasks. They are not geared to think out of the box so any other person does have a chance if they focus on one task, and master it.
Your comment begs the question on how ChatGPT and LLMs affect the value of an Ivy League education. As the quote in the beginning of the video says, it’s more about what you learn outside the classroom than in it.
@ It does affect the Ivy League and also those who likely went to an Ivy League or are talented in this regard created those versions of AI. They’re in a loop, and it doesn’t matter until they misinform the masses through our media outlets. The question of to what extent does the misinformation that is flooding the internet affects the data bank that AI is pulling from should be asked. We will all be in a loop of misinformation.
Interesting fact, for the last 50 years the amount of students in Ivy league grew by 34%, while US population grew by 65%, which means that's over last 50 years Ivy league education became even more exclusive.
This is off-topic, but im wondering what you think about the effect of sdr's and the bis is on triffin's paradox. Thanks for the great work you put out!
An Episcopal monastic order in Cambridge, Massachusetts has or at least had a back door into Harvard Divinity School so I spent a week there interviewing. Although some of the inmates were quite sociable and seemed normal enough the vocations director, now deceased, asked me so many stupid questions that I bluntly informed him that I found it impossible to take him seriously and went so far as to challenge him to prove to me that i could actually trust him. He was rendered speechless by my effrontery so I spent the remainder of the retreat going to the nearby Boathouse Bar to drink at least a half pint of whiskey each and every night. Apparently they select for people who are timid enough to bother with eating their shit, something they weren’t going to be getting from me having been both a nuclear submariner and a ghetto high school teacher. And yes, the inmates who were the most forthcoming with me openly admitted that the only reason they were there was to get a free Harvard degree. At that date it was fairly easy to get into the divinity school or circa 1986.
95% of students are not getting the advantage of manipulation of the admissions system. Students need to be extremely well qualified to be admitted and then they need to graduate and the students who do the best at an Ivy League school are extremely good students. It is fair to recognize that very good students come from great public and private high schools. Those people are overwhelmingly from upper middle class/ upper class backgrounds.
@AFNick - What are your thoughts on schools who are members of the Association of American Universities (AAU) - an association of 71 leading research universities in the US and Canada? Membership is by invitation only.
Some Americans boycott the polls because they simply cannot stomach either major party candidate. That's no excuse! They are not the only options. There are several third parties. Should none of these produce a satisfactory candidate there is still the option of the write-in. Simply write in the name of a US Citizen thirty-five or older who you suspect might be a more satisfactory president or vice-president.
Ivy League classes there is nothing special, I did a course on Coursera at Yale, but if you go to one you are a privilege. I never studied in an Ivy League school but I know they don't teach you any secret.
I did a course online for geopolitics from Stanford, but being there in real life with exams and a competitive student curve, is a very different dynamic and far more challenging than auditing the class from the comfort of your home.
You completely missed the fact that Cornell is New York State's land grant school with a different tuition and admissions for NYS residence. All you need is to have a B or an average a from a community college or non competitive SUNY and you have good chance of being accepted. However you are limited to; NYS College of Human Ecology, The College of Agriculture and Life Sciences (CALS), and School of Industrial & Labor Relations. The Vet school also a SUNY is post graduate. Having done this myself (plus being apart of the ADA quota for being dyslexia) and known a lot low income farm kids there is back door into the Ivy's. Whether is is more of assist or liability I'm still not sure.
Everyone in the comment section talking bout prestige, power, throwing around words like elite. Idgaf about any of that. I just want big bag of money and a one way ticket to a nice beach.
These percentages don’t seem disproportionate at all or unfair or deviating from real world success results at all. The purpose of country is to do the best work with the best people and be the highest functioning most good place to be possible. These stats sound like evolution is working just fine and the people of America are doing a great job working with it.
Which percentages are your referring to? Given how small Ivies are compared to talented people they are skewed. Especially relatively to the graduates of the rest of the US News Top 50.
@@AFNick the percentages of ivies that are from the top 1% being 10-30%. and then the percentages of ceos, high ranking politicians, country leaders and project doers and men who acquire huge victory on planet earth. it adds up fine and the projects and institutions are winning in the greatest country on planet earth. america is winning and things are getting done. You are saying their is a disproportion of "how small ivies are compared to talented people." Talented people are people who win as adults ages 20-60 in the real world. not high school and college grades and activities. most high school and college people on paper seeming the same talent, are not. and the real world requires real high talent. and there are only so many ceo and high ranking politician and colossal project positions open. if there are only so many positions and a surplus of talent from many sources, people in the real world who want things to get done might as well bet theyll have more success with for example legacy and someone who grew up in that elite world.
@@AFNick we arent sending people to college and creating jobs to make people happy if you didnt know. we are sending people to college and creating jobs because brotherhoods on planet earth want to get things done.
Thanks. So far its looking like Melbourne is the leading city in terms of votes. We have a decent amount of votes for so far across Australia but still well below the threshold. I look forward to when the day comes for me to visit!
around the seven minute, 40 second mark you said they don't offer academic scholarships I think what you meant to say is they don't offer athletic scholarships
@ 16:00 you said the only school not to have a billionaire alumni is brown. Not to dox myself but I work for a company that’s family owned who has a BUNCH of family members who attended Brown. The family is worth in the multiple of billions.
14:17 That's confusing. You first state Stanford to be the "leader of course" for those receiving funding toward a unicorn venture by being 1.6x more likely. But then you go on to state that a Yale graduate is 2x more likely to achieve unicorn status. How can Stanford be the leader then?
@@AFNick But this would mean a depressed likelihood amongst Stanford alumni, yes? You state in the video that they're 1.6x more likely than an average entrepreneur.
Interesting, I'm beginning to hear rumblings of change in the air. Many businesses are shunning ivy league graduates of the recent era because all the woke crap that goes into ivyness has shed off on their graduates and businesses just see them as too much of a pain in the ass. LOLOL
Can you do a video on why the US is more unequal than other Western countries and what can be done? I understand that smarter and craftier people will always get the top places in society, but it’s not fair that people born to parents with low incomes can’t get good secondary and post-secondary education here
@@AFNick I watched it, but I think it was inaccurate since Europe has higher social mobility than the US. However, maybe if you truly think that the US is more equal, it wouldn't make sense to make a video of why it's less equal. Maybe don't make the video since you don't agree
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they only control us because that second amendment hasn't been exercised enough.
The founding fathers were very intelligent men. They also warned us about central banks/fiat currency.
Just wanted to point out you forgot to mention Brown at the beginning. Great video though, very informative and accurate (full disclosure: I went to Brown for grad school)
I thought this was pretty spot on. I think most of the Ivy League success comes from people who come from families that are already wealthy, not individual merit. As someone from a middle class background who through athletics got a scholarship to Deerfield Academy and then went on to be a recruited athlete at an Ivy. Internships and job opportunities have more to do with family connections than your grades.
There are still opportunities for those who earned their place based on merit. The system isn’t perfect but it’s still more meritocratic than other countries. The cream does rise to the top.
Agreed
lol sounds like you got in through athletic ability, not grades.
I would also say that ivy leagues don’t have much to offer; if you are autodidactic, it is usually better to study topics on your own with online resources.
That is not my lived experience regarding internships and job opportunities. Perhaps (generously) 200 people in my Ivy graduating class got some kind of job help via family connections, and that is across all fields, not just finance/consulting. What IS messed up is how early you need to be investment-banking-conversant to get an IB internship now that recruiting has moved up so early. You should talk more about that.
Very true. I currently attend what many may consider an ivy plus (Emory) and the opportunities we have are simply amazing. I have friends at ivy leagues and I wouldn’t say there’s too much of a difference in the opportunities we get. I’m a sociology and data science major and am currently set to make at least 100k post-grad in consulting…which mainly targets these ivy/ivy plus schools. As someone that comes from a poor background, it’s a crazy reality! Both of my roommates parents graduated from MIT and they’ve recommended me for a few internship opportunities. Crazy stuff! I’m forever grateful
Put me on
They just naming anything as ivy plus now 🤦♂️
@@vwpanda8403 yeah I guess so lol. Probably bc there’s similar outcomes
@@ajamoore6540 regionally, I think Emory is exceptional. However, I think the Ivies unique advantage is their networks that expand far beyond their local areas (something Emory does not have).
As an Ivy alum, this is largely accurate, but somewhat understates just how massive the divide is between people there on pure academic merit and not from a feeder school (my crowd) and people there for any other reason. If you're there on raw merit, you're probably going to dramatically outperform your coworkers after graduating, especially outside of the "tracked" professions (management consulting, high finance, big law, academia, etc). But the networking benefits only really apply to the non-academic crowd, unless maybe you're a real social butterfly and become best friends with one of them. But since the two categories have little overlap in coursework or extracurriculars, there aren't a lot of opportunities for that. And personality wise, the general consensus from my social circle was that the two groups might as well be from different planets. You do get an automatic boost applying for jobs at very specific companies or in very specific careers, but it's relatively small. If you want to work outside of the "tracked" careers, you basically are only getting the advantage of being more competent and receiving excellent financial aid. It does make a career transition into the more "tracked" areas way more realistic though.
Very well put
What do u mean the networking benefits only apply to the non-academic crowd? And are you saying that if you go to an ivy league, but are outside some of the tracked “” careers that you feel like it’s less worth it and you get less of a boost?
Also Greek clubs are another “secret society” where people make connections. I even hear that many Greek clubs have answer keys to past exams which senior students pass down to junior students, and since many professors do not update their exams every semester, those in the Greek clubs have a competitive advantage since they already know the answers, while everyone else had to study hard to receive decent grades.
This isn't a secret, most frats and sororities have past exams. I wasn't in a frat but my friend was and gave me access. Now a days I'm sure there are past exams for courses posted online as well.
Every instructor knows this. Back when I taught chemistry I used to have review sessions for the whole class where I'd cover past exams so not only those who were in clubs or had access to them knew what was going to be on the exam. On the more difficult math classes I had the instructors would give previous exams and you could sit with them to go over the especially hairy problems
@@raul0ca I’d say most students forget at least half of what they learned after the exam. Only those with a passion for learning will eventually integrate what they learned into their own framework. That’s why PhD is called a Doctor of Philosophy, because you are supposed to have a “philosophy” of your own.
Of course that at every school the older students know what is at the exam. It’s up to everyone to be proactive and make friends to get their experience.
@@raul0ca Not every professor cares enough to do this lol
I was a supervisor at an Ivy League school and these kids are extremely focused on their academics. Most of the first year and second years have never even been on a date. Furthermore, the resources and tools that these students get access to is vast. Business students have access to Capital IQ, Factset, and Bloomberg terminals.
To be fair, most people in my highschool or university have never been on a date here in Finland. That's because everyone is an incel today, and afraid to talk to people at that age, and Finns are very introverted
@@tj-co9gowhat even girls.I thought Finnish girls and boys have a*x at 13-15 and you are calling yourself lonely
@@tj-co9goyour just a loser scandinavia has the most sex compared to the rest of the world
Having access to the Bloomberg terminal is insane, that’s pretty cool.
@@tj-co9gonot Finland too
I thought my Ivy League law degree would be my ticket into the ruling establishment class but being short and having Chinese DNA closed more doors than the Ivy League degree opened. I was tolerated by the establishment elite overlords so long as I knew my place, which was to do all the grunt work that enabled the establishment's wealth, power, and prestige.
The world sucks man
I have friends who are trying to enter one institution that belongs to the ivy league from abroad and they are almost for sure going to fail because they are white men from Europe. In their application they have to sob and make themselves victims to earn a shot against the "marginalized" women from other continents who have lower grades. The world sucks so much ass. Your experience sucked but DEI is also straight garbage.
I find that there are two feedback loops in play. The first is how Asian Americans are expected to be the “model minority”, which is clearly not a complement. It suggests the idea of hard work, obedience, and “knowing your place”. But meanwhile, a lot Asian parents also value those things and indoctrinate their children to be obedient. So in the end, you are being taken advantage of both your hard work and lack of assertiveness.
That’s too bad, but thanks for sharing your story.
Chinese in CA here, couldnt speak for others, but personally I will never jump back into the self pitty hole again, when u put everything against you because of race and looks, whole world turned against u which is not true and enjoyable. But I find many times ask and show up matters way more than sit for a hard degree and expect things to happen. Hard world we living in(24M)
The cast system in America!
I wouldn't say we are a caste system yet, as even Ivies can be accessed via merit. However, I have been considering doing a video about the possible formation of one in the Western world.
@@AFNick Yes! Please do a video on that!
@@AFNickI’d like to see the data on how likely a non-recruited-athlete non-legacy non-Jewish white heterosexual cisgender male with no disabilities and who comes from a lower-middle to middle class background is to be accepted to the Ivy undergrad programs compared to other demographics with equivalent GPA and standardized test scores.
They are definitely underrepresented versus their ratio of total population. The question is to what degree and how much it matters.
@ I’d love to know just how underrepresented. I was accepted, but I was a recruited athlete. I never met one from that particular demographic, even with perfect test scores, who was accepted. That’s why I ask.
They were billionaires because they come from wealthy families that can afford the cost and prep to get into Ivy League not because Ivy League produce billionaires.
Exactly.
Great video as always! Wanted to provide an interesting quote I read on the internet: "Attending an Ivy-Plus instead of a flagship public college triples students’ chances of obtaining jobs at prestigious firms and substantially increases their chances of earning in the top 1%."
Many people say that those who made it into the ivy league by merit would have been successful going to a state school. I honestly think that's a bit facetious. I went to an ivy and knew many low income / first-gen students who would have never even learned about investment banking or consulting if they had attended their flagship state school. For first gen / low-income students an ivy league degree has immense benefits.
That being said, due to class barriers there are many good students who are not able to attend these institutions.
The biggest difference is between the elite boarding schools and public schools. John Taylor Gatto investigated it and made a video about it. Some of the things I remember him saying about boarding schools:
1) From a young age, lots of writing without much emphasis on grammar rules (that comes later), just write! Write a diary or personnel journal, write fictional stories too. For example, you can start with a dog, a cat, and a horse, and write an adventure story about them. Write a lot!
2) Public speaking, they push public speaking from a young age. The audience can be 2-3 people sitting on a park bench, doesn't matter!
3) They learn about all the major religions of the world, public schools - no religion at all.
4) an understanding of human nature: what makes people tick.
5) The classics, learning how to think for yourself, the trivium. Grammer, rhetoric, and logic. unheard of in public schools.
6) Access to people of different professions, truckers, Plumbers, cops, doctors, local politicians, etc, etc. Write them a personal letter asking to shadow them for a day or more.
There's more, but that's what I know off the top of my head.
Thanks for the insightful comment
While teaching catholic parochial school junior high I also guided canoe trips at a Canadian youth camp whose clientele were heavily enrolled in elite boarding schools. You are correct in your assertion that there is really no comparison between public school and boarding school. For one thing kids who go to boarding school feel like they own the world, which is not to imply that I found this to be disagreeable.
This was excellent
Singapore public school system is doing just that - they use maths to teach logic as well ( thinking is a skill )
I really recommend reading about Pierre Bourdieu’s theory of habitus, economic, cultural, and social capital. Connections fall into the social capital category. People from different class backgrounds also tend to have different “habituses”. For example, people like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg can afford to make riskier decisions such as dropping out of college, because they were born in upper middle class families and have plenty of safety nets to fall back on if they fail, and this effects their risk assessment.
Very good recommendations! La Distinction (in English, The Distinction) is something every one should read
Agreed, except William Gates III was unambiguously from an upper class family.
Some colleges are outside the Ivy League but are informally Ivy League schools, universities Stanford University, MIT, and Duke University just to name a few.
I would add the University of Chicago, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Berkeley to that list too. UCLA, Notre Dame, and UVA are close, to the cut line as well.
I wonder where Caltech is ranked in the elite universities.
It’s up there with MIT for best STEM school
@@AFNickthrow in Johns Hopkins, Rice and Carnegie Mellon
@@AFNick I've published a peer-reviewed paper on university endowments. I can tell you that is correct, it can make more sense by looking at the size of the university endowment. This is a fascinating topic. Having worked in academia and having lived in China the Ivy League schools come up. My conclusions are graduates are marginally better at being students, and no better at being employees. Ppl want degrees from there for their own self image or prestige. It's similar to college sports, while many come from strong programs like Alabama football or Duke basketball, it's not a lock they were inherit the earth. Unless you're from the higher class going to an ivy is preparing you to be a great worker bee, much like the Chinese guy says above.
As a Yale graduate, I can testify that it is neither privilege nor merit. It is pure luck. They have categories of people that they are looking for, and if you check the particular boxes that they are looking for when your application comes up, then you're in. If you don't, then you're out.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing
@@AFNick Sure, you have to have prime qualifications, but ALL applicants have those, or they don't even bother to apply. That can't be called 'merit' because if it were just merit they'd pick the top X percent based on SATs and grades. But if you're part of that pool, it's just a lottery.
That’s why prestigious universities need to expand the class sizes. It can be easily be done without diluting the quality of the student body
They have to meet the diversity quota.
@@AFNickIt would reduce their prestige. Prestige schools are like luxury goods, the more they cost and the less they admit, the higher their perceived value
It makes a bigger difference if you want to get into politics, law, finance. For STEM, there are way better options.
MIT and Caltech are the leaders of STEM
You are the most important TH-camr on earth. This isn't an understatement man. The work you do for shedding light on money is more important than any entertainment nonsense anybody can consume.
Another observation is that undergrad degree from an ivy or stanford is way more valuable than a grad degree. It first sounds nonsense but going to ivy for undergrad shows that there's a good chance that you are coming from a certain background. You also build stronger bonds with your friends which will become your network soon.
It definitely is. It’s much more difficult to get into the Ivy’s for an undergrad than it is for admission into one of their grad schools.
@@AFNick undergrad admissions is also more biased towards raw IQ and writing ability while grad admissions will reward professional experience and time management more
@@bArda26 For admission to graduate programs at Stanford for the social sciences, you are looking at an acceptance rate in the vicinity of 4%.
My grandfather went to Princeton, then Harvard Law. Unfortunately he didn't offer any guidance in my education or application process... probably because he went to Princeton, then Harvard Law. I don't know about the graduates of today but his generation is of the hippie era and such people do not believe in dynasties. Maybe some of them grew out of it but those that I know never let go of their left-leaning activism, himself becoming a Civil Rights Lawyer. Ironically, he's a straight white man so he is now facing a lack of tolerance in the very field he chose to pursue.
My parents are that generation. I hate that generation. I have never seen a generation before or since that was so resistant to information. Also they are the most selfish generation I have observed. The generations I have personally observed are the ww2 generation, the silent generation, baby boomer generation, millennials, gen Z, gen A, and I am young Gen X. Did I mention that I hate boomers? I really do.
Lol. He got what he wanted. Your opportunities your forefathers left you will now go to a non European non Caucasian. That was the goal correct?
@@goodbro7846 Seriously, his opportunities now go to the Chinese.
@@goodbro7846 That's right. Admission for mediocre white men is no longer a given.
Love that this topic is being covered. I’m currently reading this book called Ebony and Ivy by Craig Steven Wilder which covers the history and founding of American Universities, specifically the Ivy Leagues. Very interesting, thanks!
Thanks for sharing the book.
There are certain hierarchies in universities, there are the Ivy League plus, then bellow there are the flagship state universities, and below that there is the second tier state university then come for-profit universities.
This explains the grading system at ivy’s where everyone gets a good GPA. If you graded on a curve, the half who aren’t top students would get crushed and the money would and status would stop flowing in.
I’m extremely grateful you made this video as it provides truth to what a lot of people simply don’t know.
Great content!!!
Thanks
I'm surprised that you didn't include Brown. The U.S. treasury secretary and many others in prominent positions went to Brown for their liberal undergrad education.
Bank of America's CEO, Brian Monihan is also a brown alum.
As an aside, I have noticed that a number of left leaning think tanks funded by the Rockefeller foundation (John D. Rockefeller Jr graduated from Brown) and left leaning media outlets (CNN was created by Ted Turner, brown alum) tend to have links to that school.
Andrew Yang who is best known for pushing universal Basic income, is also a graduate of Brown and Columbia Law. I find it interesting that a lot of left leaning ideology can be linked to some affiliation with Brown.
I did include Brown. It’s one of the eight Ivy League schools. Brown is definitely the most politically progressive and free spirited of the Ivies.
I grew up lower class and graduating from Cornell university (1999) changed my life I would never be financially upper class now if it wasn’t for my experience
How did you change?
Thanks for sharing your story
unfortunately you were the actually smart person giving the school it's reputation, meanwhile your rich and elite classmates are riding off your back.
I went to Brown for my Masters degree and worked as a research scientist at the University shortly thereafter. I can tell you from first hand experience that success post grad depends a great deal on how much you’ve networked and/or participated in certain clubs while a student and also how much you’ve kissed ass.
How do I “brown-nose” without making it seem obvious that I’m “brown-nosing”
Due to ny circles I have come across a few people who studied in the Ivy league schools. They have to always plaster around where they studied. The only guy that's pleasant is from Thailand and he never mentioned that he went to Yale. Someone else told me about it. He is by far the most accomplished out of the rest and his dedication to his family is absolute.
"It's all a big club, and YOU AIN'T IN IT!"
That stupid old fart would never tell you what the club actually is. George "too many white people" Carlin
Babe wake up Analyzing Finance with Nick just dropped another video!!!!
Important work you're doing here, Nick. And thank you for that. You're very knowledgeable.
My take is that the fact that the majority of Ivy Leaguers are not legacy students shows that while the League may be responsible for assimilating the preferred members of the lower class into the upper (ruling) class, it is not itself the main mechanism by which the ruling class is maintained. The ruling class is that group of people who make rules others follow. Correlating to the three factors of production, land, labor, and capital, these are landlords, bosses, and capitalists, who establish rules for tenants, workers, and debtors. Their positions are maintained through the privilege of private property and inheritance. Ivy Leaguers represent the elites of the ruling class and offer a means of class mobility to elites of lower classes, so that through their acquired titles of nobility, essentially, they can gain access to the factors of production instead of solidifying into "counter-elites." Ruling class elites are basically the executive members of the ruling class. Lower class elites, if not assimilated into the ruling class, become counter-elites, such as labor, tenant, and debtor organizers, in efforts of socialism or anarchism, and are usually themselves assimilated instead into the managerial class through "business unionism" or "yellow unionism," despite their original opposition and refusal of full assimilation into the ruling class.
If you come from a disadvantaged background, then chances are you have to think differently from the way your parents think. You don’t want to inherit their “habitus” (read Pierre Bourdieu) or else you’ll not be able to achieve upward social mobility, because their “habitus” certainly contributed to their poverty.
Even then, once you do this what do you do next?
I will always say go to your local community college. 1. It’s cheaper 2. It’s equip for the local market, mine is FRCC and they are very aware of what local employers want in the workforce. 3. That degree is probably similar in value to Ivy League degree 80% of the time.
My Ivy League school was BYU and UofU! I didn’t go there, but I’m probably just as well educated
Ivy League education is not purely about the academic content.
I saw this during my matriculation at an Ivy (Business School). I’m not from a wealthy background and a minority. Scholarships and grants enabled me to attend.
My experience was eye opening and the networking/connections made are the sole advantage. It can be seen as unfair with the leg up you get at an institution like this. It does open doors and has surpassed my expectations in terms of investment & ROI.👨🏽🎓
Holy crap. I knew Ivy League held an advantage over the rest of us, but not THIS much.
I know you said otherwise in another comment, but as someone who comes from a half-broken family in the Deep South, this analysis screams "America's caste system."
I ended up working at a prestigious SV law firm where a solid half of the partners came from Ivy League law schools. I was worried I was going to be out of my league since I didn’t get into an Ivy. And … it was a non issue. I never felt I was outclassed by any other lawyer. It’s not that they aren’t good, it’s just that you can’t tell by meeting or reviewing their work product. I think we can make gross distinctions in intelligence with testing, but you can’t tell the difference between someone in the top 5% or top 10% through testjng. At all.
In India, its IITs and IIMs. Interestingly, most of the IIT Students immigrate to the US for higher opportunities. That's why you see, many corporations like Google, McKinsey are run by IITian as CEO or founder. (4/11/24)
I’ve heard top Indian school admissions make Ivy Leagues look easy just due to raw population numbers.
@@AFNick IIT entrance test is the most brutal exam in the world.
Indian ivies are very hard to get in due to competition 1% or less
Great video. Thank you for putting this info together for us. I’m REALLY looking forward to your boarding schools video!
Thanks
Very interesting topic. One exception to the private school advantage is the New York public magnet schools. Stuyvesant, Bronx School of Science, Brooklyn Tech, etc. Stuyvesant, for example, has an Ivy League acceptance of 25%.
If you had an opportunity to go to Stuyvesant or a tier 1 boarding school which would you choose and why?
@ probably boarding school for the networking opportunities and lighter workload. If you are focused on STEM, you might get better internships and research opportunities at Stuyvesant, though. But many if not most of the people who go to the top magnet schools in nyc come from families from the working or low middle class. They also get into top 20 schools at a similar rate as the elite private schools. So it’s a great opportunity that allows people from less privileged backgrounds move up.
Asian percentage?
It's just network building for elite status opportunities
I turned down Brown in favor of Stanford (for a graduate program in Political Science). Stanford is the reigning “it” school, but I lost the opportunity to gain the imprimatur of a true Ivy League education. I had no legacy factor in my favor nor any connection to an endowment contribution. I also earned what most would consider a “sub-Ivy” M.S. at Johns Hopkins University. I work at the MITRE Corporation as a Principal Consultant.
Merit can’t exist above Capital. Wealth beats merit every time
Wealth is mostly earned by merit in the modern era. See my video is every fortune built on a crime for detailed thoughts on this
@AFNick “it’s who you know not what you know”
Merit: Quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward
Any successful individual I’ve ever met who has any humility at all has acknowledged they are only there because others have them a chance, even if they weren’t the best.
Labor data shows networking is more important than direct skills or ability.
Merit is literally not as good as soft skills and connections. Usually people with lots of money hire others who have lots of money or at least can fit into their social and financial class network.
It’s not rocket science, it’s a social science. The marketing of an individual is with average ability can and will beat talent because of how humans socialization works. (This doesn’t include any protege level of talent/skill as that is an outlier statistically)
But who knows.
Idk I’m just a dumbass on the internet
I’m just nitpicking the use of “merit” I have no real qualms with your takes, I mean I’m watching your channel so you got some things good to listen to
Man I can relate to this to some extent ,I myself graduated from a top undergrad school in my country and the sentiment shared is here. As of now, I am in a law school that is considered up there in the country too ( biggest thing I notice is how they fill up government positions fast!)
One of my high school friends went to an Ivy League school, which was unusual for kids from my small town public schools (even though we had a good school system). She wasn't a genius or high achiever/intellectual nor was her family wealthy. Her mom knew how the application system worked, so she got in. Anyway, at her first job out of college in the mid 1990s she was making 6 figures as a project manager in tech--about $330,000 in 2024 money. She had no skills or knowledge in the field that would justify that--I don't remember her major, but it was probably something like English literature. It took me several years working in STEM, then in tech, and racking up credentials and publications/patents to make as much money as she did just starting out as a doofus new grad. It seemed like just another "track" system like the high school AP/college track sets people up for a professional job.
It’s the top track for the risk averse. That’s why admission is so competitive
I can't help but notice that rates of legacy admissions to these organizations haven't been affected by "diversity" initiatives. I also can't help but recall that the first "Woman of color" to be a Professor at Harvard Law was Elizabeth Warren. I have had the privilege to work with HYPMIT geniuses, Nick here reminds me of them. Unbelievably diligent, competent, and driven people. I've also had the misfortune of "working" with Ivy grads who grew up wealthy, marry wealthy, and will die wealthy. Great video.
Thanks for the kind words
There are definitely some billionaire grads linked to Brown. I will admit that I have a bias against left leaning elite schools and I took a little pleasure in the report that Brown Alum, Barry Sternlicht, (who is a Billionaire) real estate mogul, threatened to withhold additional donations, after Brown students demanded that Brown divest. Apparently, he donated 20 or 30 million+ to the school and was disappointed with how the school handled the students.
Additionally, I discovered after doing some more research that the very left leaning NY Times is also linked to Brown. The NY Times is owned by the Ochs-Sulzberger family and I wasn't surprised in the least to find out that A.G. Sulzerber graduated from Brown in 2003. He is a fifth generation member of the Ochs-Sulzberger family and currently in the position of Chairman and publisher of the NY Times.
I honestly think each ivy school serves different purposes. I think Brown produces a lot of left leaning graduates, who play a major role in the left leaning culture creation.
I do not think it is shocking or surprising that when I did research on the B.E.T. network, which played a massive role in popular culture creation along with MTV (which had a slew of Brown alums that were producers/writers/reporters, during its heyday.)
I discovered that Debra Lee was the CEO of B.E.T. during its most important years (2005 - 2018). And of course Debra Lee is a graduate of Brown, as well as the Harvard Kennedy school and Harvard Law school. She is currently on the Board of Warner Brothers. Please tell me, is this merely a coincidence?
No mention of US Military Academy; Naval Academy or Air Force Academy. They produce some outstanding well balanced/rounded persons too…. And I never met an Ivy League graduate (or Stanford; MIT; Johns Hopkins; etc.) in the military.
There are plenty of Ivy League veterans, and they are very common in politics. Notable examples include JD Vance, George W. Bush, Pete Buttigieg, and Ron Desantis
West Point, AFA, and the Naval Academy are up with there with the Ivies in terms of prestige, but the service requirements narrow the pool of applicants.
@@AFNick yet in 30 years of service I never met one. For example, Graham and Desantis were lawyers… not trigger pullers. I knew a number of USMA graduates but never MET an Ivy League graduate.
@@schweinhund7966 Thank you for your service.
There absolutely are officers who did undergrad at ivies. They primarily commission through ROTC, but I've met a doctor who did undergrad at Princeton. It's just not advertised because...well its the military and your undergrad isn't relevant(unless its from a service academy or other military academy)
In my experience, legacy does not matter, I was a double legacy to an Ivy League university through both of my parents with a 2300+ SAT non superscored and very high gpa with AP classes, self studied AP tests, numerous 800 subject tests, president of my school’s debate team, etc, and I did not get in. From my parents wide social network of Alumni families, I only knew two kids my age who got into the school as legacies, both of them claimed to be Hispanic on their application, one had a Cuban parent and the other was a double legacy that reclaimed Spanish citizenship through Sephardic ancestry. I think that most successful legacy applicants also found some way to fit into some diversity group so as to allow the university to meet its legacy quotas and diversity quotas, even if the legacies fudge the story a bit on just how ‘diverse’ they are.
I ended up going to a top 50 school in the country and absolutely regret it. Even being at a christian school, and being in the business school there, I found myself exiled from pretty much all social networks for my conservative political beliefs and I didnt fit in with the unserious Greek life kids which were the only social groups that were not explicitly political groups that didn’t exclude right of center students, but does exclude nerds. And those explicitly political groups that are against the university’s cultish consensus have meetings that are basically like funerals with how depressed everyone is being at the university. Anyway, I left college with very few useful social/business connections from the experience, I ended up underemployed taking a low starting salary where I had coworkers without college degrees, but thankfully older people went to college before it was an ideological indoctrination center, and I have risen up the ranks of my company pretty fast. I would not recommend that anyone who is not willing to fully buy into leftist ideology go to an elite college because you will certainly find yourself isolated, you will not get the vaunted ‘connections’ - you will in fact be shunned, and you will have to pay government-backed-loan-inflated tuition for the privilege. Start your career early, I could be the same place I am now years earlier if I did that, if you want to party you don’t need to pay for classes to do it, and you won’t have a title 9 kangaroo court breathing down your neck if you sleep with someone either.
See my video on college for my view on this, but thanks for sharing your story and the insightful comment.
It’s so true! Most of US universities, not just Ivy League, are a Propaganda Department of the same one political party in their country. Their researchers are biased, dissidents silenced and thrown out, even beaten. Inconvenient research projects are de-funded and shut down. The Old Money and most of billionaires go with it as the Dems policies guarantee their survival. Billionaire class is aligned with underclass against Middle Class.
I’ve gotta say the schools are like organisms which will try to reject you like a virus if you don’t fit in. Conservative political beliefs are big right now, but there are other characteristics they will get you on otherwise. I was lucky to be in school back with old school liberals who would simply mark you down a grade for giving the correct but not popular answer. 😂🤣
Went to the Army which was full of Conservatives, but had a bias against high IQ and my personality as measured by the Myers Briggs test. Never really fit in anywhere because there was ALWAYS influential people who wanted to get rid of me. The best I could do was either be in a company where I wasn’t one of the higher IQ people (elite tech) or a smaller company where the owner realized my value and protected me.
Still, through all that, I avoided so many of the calamities that ruin normal people’s lives because I was just smart enough or wise enough to see them coming before they really hurt me. So, it worked out fine for me.
Legacy definitely matters 😂 stop trying to cope.
Look at statistics.
It absolutely does matter! The stats prove this!
As a great man once said, "It's a big club, and you ain't in it."
Nick - sorry if I missed it - I am curious if you have coined a name for your American Class Hierarchy conception/model. If you Google the term, it only shows single-pyramid traditional models, and yours is quite novel (in a good way), so it would be nice to know a specific term/phase if one exists. It would also help people credit you if/when others reference your model, now and in the future.
I came up with it myself and just call it the American class hierarchy model or the dual pyramid of social class in America. If it needs a more unique name, call it the Pardini Pyramid of Social Class 😂
Ugh! I love this education from TH-cam 😒😍
Please do a video on elite boarding schools as well!
It’s on the list
The term “corporate culture” is a way of saying “If you didn’t attend an Ivy (or at least a Pac 10) school you won’t fit into our corporate culture/won’t be invited to the yacht parties, wine tasting events, and won’t fit in. Sorry, that’s going to keep you from many jobs.” I went to a state university and found this to be true whether it was a law firm or a non-profit. Actually, non-profits are worse.
Doesn’t matter that I was an honors student and the best in my class at my “low tier” university. I didn’t fit in with the elites.
this is so unjust
Thank you for this video, learned a lot. What books would you recommend for me to read about this specific topic?
Read the news reports and findings related to Operation Varsity Blues
Not what you know but who you know. Go to the games, go to the events, shake hands.
excellent video as usual Nick thanks man
You’re welcome
I am from the UK and i am applying to Princeton for physics PhD. Not going to lie this video doesn’t give me much hope, even if ranked first place in undergrad, with research experience. Though UK has some issues with Oxford and Cambridge for similar reasons. I applied to Cambridge for undergrad and got rejected, however I have to admit they mostly only care if you’re are smart and interviews tend to be asking really hard questions in the subject you are applying for. There is still some benefits for being rich (but almost no benefits for being legacy).
Interesting topic!
See how this doesn’t get as near as many likes as anti-DEI measures? Hmmmm I wonder why.
Exactly… because people are okay with other Ivy leagues admission schemes (that benefits whites) except affirmative action which they believe benefits the race they don’t want in their school.
You forgot Brown University.
I did not attend an Ivy League institution. Yet, I did have 1 teacher from Harvard. Being a San Francisco native 🌁, most of my teachers who received a degree from a major research institution are from Cal or Stanford.
You are right ✅.
Good info .. keep going .. great content 💪
Thank you! Will do!
11:30 this is a great point - what does it mean socially that all nine Supreme court judges are from Harvard or Yale?
Will they all protect their common class interests? (Of being priviledged Ivy League students)
That’s a good question
I went to Iowa State University. Another good video. Thanks.
You’re welcome
Merit in this case equates to robotic talent. I’m not gifted at the formalities of writing for academia. I can write papers that my teachers enjoy, but I had never learned how to write researched material on the level of a researcher. I think that it does require a certain talent, and robotic mindset. I struggle just to follow instructions but I have managed to make how I function in school work for me. Most of life isn’t reliant on people educated by Ivy League schools. Those schools are useful in churning out high level worker bees who can perform mentally strenuous tasks. They are not geared to think out of the box so any other person does have a chance if they focus on one task, and master it.
Your comment begs the question on how ChatGPT and LLMs affect the value of an Ivy League education. As the quote in the beginning of the video says, it’s more about what you learn outside the classroom than in it.
@ It does affect the Ivy League and also those who likely went to an Ivy League or are talented in this regard created those versions of AI. They’re in a loop, and it doesn’t matter until they misinform the masses through our media outlets. The question of to what extent does the misinformation that is flooding the internet affects the data bank that AI is pulling from should be asked. We will all be in a loop of misinformation.
Interesting fact, for the last 50 years the amount of students in Ivy league grew by 34%, while US population grew by 65%, which means that's over last 50 years Ivy league education became even more exclusive.
That’s the problem
This is off-topic, but im wondering what you think about the effect of sdr's and the bis is on triffin's paradox.
Thanks for the great work you put out!
Let me think about this one. Since SDRs are a basket of fiat, my initial assumption is that it’s not addicted by triffins paradox
Thanks for making this.
You’re welcome
Great video and very informative.
Thanks
This comment section is amazing.
An Episcopal monastic order in Cambridge, Massachusetts has or at least had a back door into Harvard Divinity School so I spent a week there interviewing. Although some of the inmates were quite sociable and seemed normal enough the vocations director, now deceased, asked me so many stupid questions that I bluntly informed him that I found it impossible to take him seriously and went so far as to challenge him to prove to me that i could actually trust him. He was rendered speechless by my effrontery so I spent the remainder of the retreat going to the nearby Boathouse Bar to drink at least a half pint of whiskey each and every night. Apparently they select for people who are timid enough to bother with eating their shit, something they weren’t going to be getting from me having been both a nuclear submariner and a ghetto high school teacher. And yes, the inmates who were the most forthcoming with me openly admitted that the only reason they were there was to get a free Harvard degree. At that date it was fairly easy to get into the divinity school or circa 1986.
Nick are you aware of the jq?
95% of students are not getting the advantage of manipulation of the admissions system. Students need to be extremely well qualified to be admitted and then they need to graduate and the students who do the best at an Ivy League school are extremely good students.
It is fair to recognize that very good students come from great public and private high schools. Those people are overwhelmingly from upper middle class/ upper class backgrounds.
Kamala is from UC Berkeley, which is not an original Ivy League, but follows similar ideas.
She went to UC Hastings, not Berkeley
UC Hastings is not Berkeley. It’s a UC that is exclusively a law school in San Francisco.
@AFNick - What are your thoughts on schools who are members of the Association of American Universities (AAU) - an association of 71 leading research universities in the US and Canada?
Membership is by invitation only.
I think its a signal for more STEM/research focused grad programs more than the prestige of the undergrad or professional degrees.
Thomas Jefferson founded UVA bc his Alma mater, William and Mary, became a social club.
Is Georgia Tech Ivy League?
Is Georgia Tech _essentially_ Ivy League?
How far is Georgia Tech from being _essentially_ Ivy League?
Not even close
It's a selection not an election Dr Shiva 2024 MIT graduate and inventor of Email
I got into a Ivy, but chose a UC t9 study mathematics, but eventually dropped out and started a construction company, im happy
UC what? Riverside? Lol
You're not allowed to write for the Atlantic unless you went to Yale.
First gen college kid here who went to Ivy for professional school. Completely fucking different worlds
Some Americans boycott the polls because they simply cannot stomach either major party candidate.
That's no excuse! They are not the only options.
There are several third parties. Should none of these produce a satisfactory candidate there is still the option of the write-in. Simply write in the name of a US Citizen thirty-five or older who you suspect might be
a more satisfactory president or vice-president.
Ivy League classes there is nothing special, I did a course on Coursera at Yale, but if you go to one you are a privilege. I never studied in an Ivy League school but I know they don't teach you any secret.
I did a course online for geopolitics from Stanford, but being there in real life with exams and a competitive student curve, is a very different dynamic and far more
challenging than auditing the class from the comfort of your home.
See this is the problem. You think your random online course is the same as a regular education.
It’s not.
You completely missed the fact that Cornell is New York State's land grant school with a different tuition and admissions for NYS residence. All you need is to have a B or an average a from a community college or non competitive SUNY and you have good chance of being accepted. However you are limited to; NYS College of Human Ecology, The College of Agriculture and Life Sciences (CALS), and School of Industrial & Labor Relations. The Vet school also a SUNY is post graduate. Having done this myself (plus being apart of the ADA quota for being dyslexia) and known a lot low income farm kids there is back door into the Ivy's. Whether is is more of assist or liability I'm still not sure.
Good point on Cornell. Thanks for sharing.
Everyone in the comment section talking bout prestige, power, throwing around words like elite. Idgaf about any of that. I just want big bag of money and a one way ticket to a nice beach.
Colonel university- isn't that where colonel's are trained, they are indeed privileged to have an exclusive university for themselves
You mean Cornell, or are you joking?
@AFNick you fell for the pun, are you "pun'ny" or funny man
Nick where did you go to college
UC Santa Barbara
@ oh cool. I appreciate the response you earned a subscriber
@@AFNickdo you have an MBA
lol people blamed affirmative action instead of legacy students. Apparently these ivy league are not that smart since they didn't catch this.
It’s both
Go Gauchos!!!!
Eleventh.
These percentages don’t seem disproportionate at all or unfair or deviating from real world success results at all. The purpose of country is to do the best work with the best people and be the highest functioning most good place to be possible. These stats sound like evolution is working just fine and the people of America are doing a great job working with it.
Which percentages are your referring to? Given how small Ivies are compared to talented people they are skewed. Especially relatively to the graduates of the rest of the US News Top 50.
@@AFNick the percentages of ivies that are from the top 1% being 10-30%. and then the percentages of ceos, high ranking politicians, country leaders and project doers and men who acquire huge victory on planet earth. it adds up fine and the projects and institutions are winning in the greatest country on planet earth. america is winning and things are getting done. You are saying their is a disproportion of "how small ivies are compared to talented people." Talented people are people who win as adults ages 20-60 in the real world. not high school and college grades and activities. most high school and college people on paper seeming the same talent, are not. and the real world requires real high talent. and there are only so many ceo and high ranking politician and colossal project positions open. if there are only so many positions and a surplus of talent from many sources, people in the real world who want things to get done might as well bet theyll have more success with for example legacy and someone who grew up in that elite world.
@@AFNick we arent sending people to college and creating jobs to make people happy if you didnt know. we are sending people to college and creating jobs because brotherhoods on planet earth want to get things done.
I voted Perth Australia for the Meetup, so if there's one vote for that place, you know it was me! 😂
Thanks. So far its looking like Melbourne is the leading city in terms of votes. We have a decent amount of votes for so far across Australia but still well below the threshold. I look forward to when the day comes for me to visit!
University of Nepo.
around the seven minute, 40 second mark you said they don't offer academic scholarships I think what you meant to say is they don't offer athletic scholarships
That’s what I meant. Thanks for the correction
...and who told you that God didn't answer? He knows what you are going through, he listened and the answer, given, is on its way...
Nepotism.
Emoloyers sync better with hires who went to the same colleges. It gives validation to their own education.
@ 16:00 you said the only school not to have a billionaire alumni is brown. Not to dox myself but I work for a company that’s family owned who has a BUNCH of family members who attended Brown. The family is worth in the multiple of billions.
I guess they aren’t in the Forbes 400. Not all billionaires are on the list.
Nice
"Vanderbilt. 😐 . Is Vanderbilt an Ivy League school?.".
"No.".
@@ChemicalXII It is not an ivy, but definitely regarded as an elite university in the U.S.
No it’s not, but it’s still a top school that ranks higher than the weaker Ivies, but behind most of them.
Southern ivy, too young.
14:17 That's confusing. You first state Stanford to be the "leader of course" for those receiving funding toward a unicorn venture by being 1.6x more likely.
But then you go on to state that a Yale graduate is 2x more likely to achieve unicorn status. How can Stanford be the leader then?
Stanford has more unicorns, but also more entrepreneurs trying to get there and not making it
@@AFNick But this would mean a depressed likelihood amongst Stanford alumni, yes? You state in the video that they're 1.6x more likely than an average entrepreneur.
compared to Yale alumni, but still far better than anyone else
Interesting, I'm beginning to hear rumblings of change in the air. Many businesses are shunning ivy league graduates of the recent era because all the woke crap that goes into ivyness has shed off on their graduates and businesses just see them as too much of a pain in the ass. LOLOL
My bonus supplement video for channel members will be discussing that. It will be released next week.
no doors are locked. U meet people who want to do things in tvose places
Can you do a video on why the US is more unequal than other Western countries and what can be done?
I understand that smarter and craftier people will always get the top places in society, but it’s not fair that people born to parents with low incomes can’t get good secondary and post-secondary education here
Watch my video on the Myth of European social equality. I answer that question there.
@@AFNick I watched it, but I think it was inaccurate since Europe has higher social mobility than the US.
However, maybe if you truly think that the US is more equal, it wouldn't make sense to make a video of why it's less equal. Maybe don't make the video since you don't agree
@@bluedaffodil2023 The inequality stats are flawed due to lack of sampling of Old money
@@AFNick What do you mean by lack of sampling?