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@Hasy Put yourself in the mental scenario where you have to choose. That'll show you what's really important to you and where you should fall when in doubt. Personally, want it more than you want air, at least in the micro. In the macro, know that air keeps you alive so you can pursue it but, if you need to hold your breath sometimes, know that that's an option.
Hey Thomas, how much should time should I gamble in my first commercial release? Its not my first game just the first commercial. I am planning to launch a kickstarter campaign but I am worried that if I say that people will claim their rewards in 3 years time they will change their mind to back
Considering how risky Indie dev is from a financial standpoint, it should be done as a hobby first. If you go into it or YT for the money, you'll inevitably become burned out or discouraged. Treating it as a hobby ensures you're not pouring in excessive time or money and levels expectations. Great vid, Thomas.
It isn’t risky to not make money as an indie dev. Well it isn’t if you make more money from selling people a false dream of being an indie dev like this guy^ 🤷♀️
Agreed! On that note I would say that treating it as a hobby rather than a high risk job can eliminate the fear and thus unlock our creativity, which could in turn generate great ideas, which could ironically get more sales.
On the other hand going into it as a hobby can lead to nothing ever coming out of it. When I went into it I put everything on the line and I never made anything as big as Thomas here. I dont encourage this though if you have a family to support. I surely wouldn't do this again if I had to do it now.
Love this video. I've released 3 games on Android, 5 games on the Roblox platform, and a handful of game jam games on itch, none of which have really taken off. But I've never given up on my dream of being a full time indie dev. All of those games have taught me one thing or another, which I carry forward to my next project. I'm moving forward now working on my first Steam release, which is very exciting. No matter how your games do, never give up. Keep going.
@@wophle It's in the very early development stage (don't even have a title yet), but it is going to be a 3D action RPG inspired by my 8 year old and one of his toys :)
Man!!! You are my inspiration. I have totally flopped my first game that I released on Steam. Worked days and nights to complete it forgetting everything. I will never give up
Same, I work in an office 40 hours a week, have a girlfriend and dog to give attention to at home, but I still try to find an hour or two a night to work on my game, every night if possible. Even if it sells 0 copies, I don't really care. Time enjoyed isn't time wasted, and I just enjoy the whole creative process :)
@@andrewc3294 Most people just watch Netflix or get drunk/partying. Game Dev is like doing art and programming. Which are both great hobbies! Alot of creative and logic thinking is involved.
My brother and I worked on a game for a year after he got fired from COVID layoffs to try and “make it” as an indie dev. After releasing it, it flopped horribly, but his experience got him a job at Epic Games a few months later so it was actually a huge win. We’re working on a second game now just because we had so much fun making the first one and it’s a lot easier with more experience. Keep at it, and look for the small victories. Everyone is on a different path with this journey.
I think rougelike is a better metaphor than gambling. Yeah, there's luck involved, but a lot of the times it comes down to "did you play it as well as you could despite your luck?" and "how did you use the luck you were given?"
I've been learning so much! Like, things I would never have thought I'd learn. Problem solving (skill/mindset), programming, art, design, patience, people I've met, I mean, it's all been amazing! Up and downs - sure. But still. And if it doesn't work out, I think I would never say "I failed". Thank you, Thomas. And happy new year everyone! ♥️
Making games is very hard. Developing a indie game solo is even harder. You also have to market your game, find a comunity interested in buying your game, port to other systems as much as you can, fix bugs, the amount of work is insane...
I'm so glad I came across this video of yours Thomas. I've been developing our game for nearly a year with the mentality of if I want this badly, I gotta be willing to sacrifice everything. For nearly a year combining the day time job I was working 70 hrs weeks, every week, being afraid of the risk of failing, without realizing this unrealistic work habit was the thing that introduced risk in the first place. I was making both of the mistakes that you outlined in your video. I was at the verge of a mental meltdown but luckily I found this video. While still keeping the hunger to learn, get better, and make progress, for now on I'll make sure I keep my family first, expectation low, and enjoy the process instead of looking at it as a responsibility I must upkeep. Thanks!
when you said "the things we do that makes it risky" I felt personally attacked :"D I'm currently in my 4th year of the self destructive journey of making big indie game solo, recently I have started to learn to take things easier on myself and most importantly to not pause your life till you finish (cause it always takes more time than expected)... currently trying to balance between living life and pursuing developing the game. loves your channel, it's really comforting seeing someone speaks up what we feel
This is a great video. If you are a solo dev you are much more likely to succeed if you have strong entrepreneur principles or instincts. If you don't respect your time and treat your art like a business you won't be able to succeed for very long. The section about learning something from failed projects is key. I am now 7 years into my indie game development journey, and this is the real first year that I am making a full time living from my games. It took project after project, learning from each one, making them each better bit by bit over years just to get to this point. I started from one of the lowest points possible, knowing virtually nothing, releasing what people considered one of the worst games of 2014, and I did not quit. If *I* can do it, others can too. There are many game developers much more talented than I. I wish everyone luck on their projects, failure will come, but that does not mean that is where you have to stay.
I've been working on games over the years, literally still being in school and graduated around last year, but all my games got deleted , my pc broke down a million times and my games vanished from my pc another million times, my programs which I used to make them got so many bugs that my games didn't even start at some point and it was making me so angry, but I couldn't stop back then. l just wanted to make games! Its all I ever wanted. I knew I had to keep on going, but only last year, l saw the results of my hart work. All these games got deleted and it frustrated me that l'm only left with all the paper and books I've written with all my ideas and how to solve the problems I had while making those games. That while I made my last game (bofore the current one), l actually noticed how much l've learned making them, even if no-one will ever play them. This knowledge made me help make my games not only faster, but Iet me succeed in the problems I used to have making games before. And finally I upload my first game since years and for the first time l can say, l actually like what I did. I mean it's not a great game, but I didn't meant to make the game to be like all the others. lt was just meant to be the way l wanted it to be and to me it succeeded in every way :) So basically, I couldn't agree more with what you always say!
Indie game development should be fun for most part. It shouldn't be a burden or a new way to make money. I got my schedule down for game development with my streams that I do and I really enjoy it and it should be like that for new indie game developers
I disagree. If you are doing it for a hobby, then yes, you are right. But if you are looking to make income, then no. You should have times where it's a burden or a grind, but that comes with anything that you want to be great at. Every business will have that, either the marketing, the new content, debugging, scheduling, time management, R&D, or just being disciplined on days you don't feel like it. You can't succeed at anything without that grind.
1) every creative industry is very risky. 2) everything that has the potential to give you financial freedom (make millions) is risky! choose ur poison, 9-5 (which is also risky, but the reward isn't alot), or risk a couple years pursuing what you love, if it works, great, if not, u got something amazing on ur resume and ur SUPER employable!
Great video Thomas! I chose to build my game in the framework I use in my day job. So if my game doesn't do well, I've still learned a lot that I can use in my day job and thus wouldn't feel like wasted time.
I absolutely agree with all of what you say. Personally, my dream is to tell emotional stories through video games. The thing is, even though there is a lot of encouragement from others to "follow your dreams", it is still risky at the end of the day. They really don't know what it takes. That's why I think It should always start as a hobby with just in mind curiosity towards that field. Then, if you win, then let's give it a shot. I've noticed ambition is never a good idea because you are never satisfied and it would burn you out. I love what you do Thomas, you inspire me to be a better game developer and a better person. Thank you!
Im Risking all my time . And Im ok with that. Because you need a goal and a dream In life. If I never give up I can never fail. Ive been learning for a long time around my Job, wife & kids / Gym Life, But for me Game dev Is that Light In the distance Im aiming for.
Despite all the risk of failing, be sure to do it, because if you don't start and make your game or whatever project you want, and you don't succeed, at least you won't regret never having started
I think the scariest stories I've heard were some indie studios would release something that's critically acclaimed, but tank on sales. Or would release their game, but didn't receive their payment on time and would get evicted from their home. I mean, I like the idea of having to work on my own. Or at least having creative control, without having some producer telling me what to do. But I also fear that I wouldn't make enough money to financially support myself.
My idea is while being commercial webdev, constantly learn/develop games and try new things in gamedev, then making the transition to gamedev will be possible, maybe release some game in the future (not even for money) or at least learn enough to join gamedev team which will allow to learn even more.... etc
@@slykhajiit2 it is easy to find gigs online, especially if you know both C++ and C# and are good at both languages and Unreal Engine and Unity. The bigger question is : is it easy to find good paying gigs at entry level? Not so much. What I wish I would have done is lots of smaller projects to add to my portfolio then leverage that to a full time, higher paying position.
I've been back and forward about beign a game dev, mostly because I haven't taken it seriously. But as an entrepreneur, with some solid success in tech, but damn I' have more failures than successes, I'll say that the problem with this industry is that is like any other entrepreneurship project but only a few face it like that. Thomas is doing a great job by addressing the Marketing activities in the first step (what about a course about this and only this? :D). I'm not a student of his courses, but I've been following his videos and they overlap A LOT with tech & innovation industry in general, and for me, that's a solid 10. Great work, Thomas.
I've known a lot of entrepreneurs over the years, and all of them had this inhumanly high risk tollerance. I don't get it. I'm risk averse. But I've always felt that there have to be less high-risk ways to get into business for myself. I've been a frelance artist and hated every minute of it, each hour of my work was time wasted if my client decided to just not pay me (it happened enough that i quit freelancing). Your advice on this is astoundingly simple and logical. Thank you so much, you motivate me to continue learning more than anyone else I follow. I've been trying to get into your Game Dev class since you launched it but ... yadda yadda, finances, unemployment, etc. I'm really hoping to afford it in the new year and get some traction on developing some of my ideas.
Just remember, you have to risk it to get the biscuit. The high risk people end up coming out on top because they end up doing what no one else is doing or doing it quicker than anyone else. Of course, a lot of them fail too. But that's why they are there first, like Thomas.
This is probably one of your best videos. Getting down to the nitty gritty of game dev, I think this video will actually help people on if this is something they will want to spend their time on.
I’m not even in the industry but it sounds a shitload more practical to just practice making a game as a side project to help focus on fine tuning a single aspect of game creation (seeing as normally in the industry you wouldn’t touch writing, art/animation, marketing, etc if you’re responsible for coding enemy ai for example) then if the game turns out to be an out of nowhere hit, all the better. This is assuming you want to get your foot in the door of the industry to get work at an indie studio instead of spending years on a huge gamble that could fall flat…. But i suppose it’s not impossible to be the jack of all trades, just assuming it’d be better to focus on being great at one aspect to get into the industry as a whole
Good video and good points. I think the most important point in all of this, is the thing about starting small. Don't go big, don't make your dream game. I know so many people who went all in on their big idea dream game and got burnt out after barely getting to 5% completion. I'm lucky enough to work full time as a hired game dev so I get to see first hand how much work a full game takes. For anyone reading this, wanting to create your big idea and have barely finished any games so far. Please reconsider! Create small games! Many, and terrible games. That's how I started and I know many others started. You'll learn and grow and get more confident. You'll also get a more realistic perspective on things. Just as important though, have fun when you make these smaller games. Don't make them just for the sake of it, you can still go with goofy or fun ideas.
@@Konitama Agreed. It depends on the circumstances. If you are an experienced dev or have experience devs on your team with money, you know how to market, have a good game idea you can sell a potential hit. My mindset has always been around the fact of whatever happens is my fault. If I make a game and it flops, it's my fault because somewhere somehow I did something wrong. Same applies to if a game developed did well. Somewhere. Somehow I or someone else did something right.
@@Konitama Sure! But me saying "... and have barely finished any games so far" I think it's getting closer to a hard set rule (there are always exceptions of course). Naturally, if you've already made a few games either by yourself or with a game studio, you might be able to pull it off, if you know what you're going into.
I think that even if a game flops if you want to become a game dev you can use that flop to maybe find a job in game dev. But thing is you can still use the knowledge you learned to go further as a programmer or as a automation engineer so there are many positive to try creating games. It's a fun way to learn programming learn to create art that applies to me if I haven't had the ideea to make the game I would have never studied creating art in photoshop.
My best advice would be to make a Kickstarter as soon as possible and ask for a decent amount. Do not make the game if you can't get the funds. Move on to a new idea or whatever.
This is good advice. What I came to realise is that game dev is firstly a hobby. I enjoy making games more when I'm not focused on money. What I ultimately want is to create games that other people can have fun playing. I'd much rather make games that more people play, than make games that sell well (although both would be nice too). I have a full time job (not game-related) so that definitely helps take the pressure off. I mostly create games for the creative outlet and learning experience. There's also indie game dev communities to be part of as well. Imagine not wanting to play tennis just because you couldn't make it as a paid professional tennis player. That's how I feel about making games. It's my hobby. Why would I give it up just because the thing I made didn't earn money? It's still fun, and it still brings joy to my life and others.
I think this is great advice coming from some what of an entrepreneur myself. I've tattooed professionally for the last 10 years or so roughly. Throughout that time there has been tons of ups and downs due to world events, life events, and more. Someone going into something that is never guaranteed should tread lightly so they don't burn themselves. I'm now in the process of going to school to brush up on more skills and hopefully land a job with a game development company. While working with a company hopefully make some projects on the side, along with various other skills and income I have at play.
I'm a indie creator and I stream game plays on twitch and upload to you tube , I would like to create a game and finish it and sell it commercially at least one game in my life where I can say I've done it , this video has helped me to be more motivated on finishing my game and even putting more in in my live streams, my main priority would be to create games and secondary live streaming full time :)
I recently gave up indie game dev (temporarily). As a context, I am a fulltime web dev and I find myself hating my career so much. I am desperate to find an alternative, and one of the alternative was indie game dev. But I know, I need a steady stream of income. So the plan was make some games and get some steady income from it first, before I leave my web dev career behind. Until last week, I have spent all my weekend doing just that. I wanted to be like you and other gamedev utubers... I made a youtube channel, im thinking I could advertise my game there by making devlogs, i planned my development and milestones to hit.. and just started developing... showed my friends/family, my gf, reddit, and some even praised me making me wanna go even further... Thinking, if I am willing to suffer, it is going to pay off one day. And that is my ticket out of web dev. Recently, while reviewing my year, I realized, I hv relied on the most risky plan to get myself out of my webdev career... that one thing that I am so desperate about. If I fail, not only I will b depressed, im back to being stuck in the career that I dont want. Hence, ytd I shelved my game dev process, promised not to look at it until I am ready again one day. I decided to invest in other skills that could potentially land me stable job closer to game dev industry instead. Your video today, further support my decision. Thanks... I kinda needed it.
@@abnox1779 Hey. Short story, its just because it wasn't my choice of career to begin with. :D It's a personal complication so perhaps it might not apply to you. Long story: I graduated from Mechatronics Engineering and found out im absolute shit at it in real world. So i chose this web dev career as an alternative because it is something I am good at that point of time (4 years ago). Web dev was not my interest but I didn't had a choice as I have loan to pay and mouths to feed, father left and mom was sick, and web dev pays very well. Fast forward last year, I worked for a startup and got burnt out very bad. Constant crunch, stress and sleepless nights finally gave me diabetes. All that in 6 months To add to that, when I was 18, I had always wanted to do something creative like illustration and 3D modelling. I'd like to tell story through those medium. But my typical asian parent thinks it is a waste of time. And that's why I hated my job. I hated it because, all these was never my choice to begin with. I was never in control of my future. Does it matter? I don't know. But I had to try to change it right? Now that my mom is getting better, my sis is growing independent, my loan is almost fully paid off... I think its time to make my own choice this time.
@@cptfurball Is webdev always stressful and difficult or was it the place where you used to work? about me: I dont have any experience in web dev yet but i have used a little bit of unity and found that sometimes programming part is enjoyable so might as well try something similar since gamedev is less safe and webdev pays well. I dont have any passions or dreams so What I'm looking for is a profession that pays well while not making me miserable. Sorry if these questions are annoying im just curious about the profession im considering. edit: i dont have a passion BUT comparatively im more interested in computer related stuff than other fields
Good decision i think for your situation. You need stable income 1st until you stable(at least financially) before jumping to be a full indie game dev.
Great video, Thomas! Taking risks definitely falls under the adventure of game development, especially as an indie dev. Through building a community, can gain some great opportunities and achieve some great milestones, too, and this can definitely help with the process and the love you build for the game you're developing! Anything's possible :)
Time is not money. You should spend more time thinking about that, brothers. Your spirit is stronger than that. Great video, Thomas. You're a real one.
Thank you for these words of wisdom. I think the key takeaway here is it's ok to fail, as long as you try to take the audience/lessons from the failures and apply them to your next gamedev project.
I’ve been working on a project on and off for 5 years (a lot of life got in the way) just to learn how to program and learn the game development process. Is it a fantastic game? No, but I have learned SO MUCH, and I’m going to release it on steam just to learn that process as well. If I sell one copy I’ll be content and I will start working on starting my indie studio with games I truly care about.
Gamedev is just online retail essentially, you have to build a brand before you can expect consistency in income. Steve Jobs had immense difficulty selling Apple products before his company was well known.
i just started game dev'ing with a full time job. i'm having a blast. don't plan to make it my full time but if it works out then cool. if not, whatever, it's a really fun time. :)
I think as a creative you need to diversify your income betting everything on your craft selling is risky. Most creatives make money off of teaching, merch, patreon or showing the process. Making a community is key, great work Thomas.
I would rebuttal your casino gambling analogy. Casino gambling is based on luck. Game dev often does have an element of some luck to a point but you do have much more control over the outcome. The effort you put in has a much higher factor in your success unlike casino gambling. Another difference is exposure. In a casino, the more people around a craps table, for example, doesn't improve your odds. However, the more people that know about your game improves your odds proportionately. The best thing you said was comparing game dev to being an entrepreneur, because that's what it is. Becoming a game dev is an entrepreneur venture, and all startup businesses are risky. I've done both to varying degrees of success. Game dev is like starting any other business, except you get to play and build games for a living!!
I recently started showing interest in coding and Gamedev and i found your channel. Its been so much helpful i cant even express how much grateful i am for your videos. Im already creating my first game plan and working on a good story and drawing my imagination for it. Hopefully it sucks and people give me real reviews which will help me improve. As for the risk.. well its like you said jumping of a clif with a parachute but this time.. as soon as i jump i remember that I made that parachute 🤣🤣🤣
lol it is not the "same thing" as going to the casino... Eventually you can crack the code of gamedev and be successful at it.. The difference is that the casino always wins. I understand that entrepreneurship is a gamble but saying it is the "same thing" as going to the casino is simply not true. After 6 years of my gamdev journey I have gained so many skills that could get me a variety of jobs if I needed.
Yeah my eyebrow went up when he compared game dev to gambling... a more apt comparison is just... starting up a business. I think instead of comparing game dev to gambling he could have just said there are risks involved.
Create a game for the journey, the fulfilment, the fun, the passion and personal growth. Be selfish, make the game you want. Be satisfied with your achievements, your development and your endeavour whether you finish it or you don't. If you make a game there will always be people who enjoy playing it. The amount of people is irrelevant. A huge impact on 1 persons life can be equal to small impact on the many. Don't get sucked in to the numbers game that is the internet. Keep your circles small and invest into them. Money should be a reward not an incentive.
This was awesome! I'd love to see some small videos of u making 10 or 20 minute games as examples of what they can teach u as a indie game dev just starting out. Like me. Kind of a ($0 budget hypothetical game dev newbie) series if that makes sense. Just a thought.
Another path is if you're an 20s new grad living with your parents. This is what Tommy Refenes (Super Meatboy) and Eric Barone (Stardew Valley) did. The DARQ guy is another example he was in the USA alone (no parents) but had money saved from day job and kickstarter before he went full-time.
After losing my job, I've decided to spend 6-8 months with no income to focus on making my indie game. But I treat it more like an unpaid vacation during which I'm doing the thing I love, and I've made this decision only after making sure I won't go bankrupt if the game flops. Some people waste money on tropical islands - I waste money on having a life while also making an indie game.
Same here lol Well... actually... I took a break from my work so I told them I was leaving. Expected 3 months but ended up taking longer. It's almost been a year in a few days...
As for me, I just love solo game developing, it brings me confidence, that I have created something. I know it really affects mental and physical health, as you keep asking yourself that when will the game be completed and put pressure on yourself due to this. I would say always start creating a game expecting failures to happen. If you start making a game expecting 6 figures and hurrying it, you will definitely fail. First give it out for testing in your group of friends and ask for their feedback. Here the negative feedback should be acknowledged. This will help you to know your wrongs which needs to be corrected and enhanced, Once all things are done relaunch the game. You will expect better results this time.
Excellent advice. You need to expect to fail, it will make you do all the things you need to do to be known, everything you need to learn to make better games, get feedback, find marketing opportunities and make your game small enough that it wont kill you and it might not fail because you worked like it could, but then can also fail, but you didnt waste 5 years of your life, learn nothing other than bitterness.
If the process of making the game is not in itself a pleasurable activity, then do something else. If you did not have fun making the game then that is an indication that other people will probably not have fun playing it. If you have as much fun making a game as you would have had playing one, then any income you may make from it is a bonus, and if the game is made with love it will show in the end result.
Comparing work with gambling is always wrong, and I know cause I was addicted to gambling. Failed projects teach you lessons on how to succeed next time or at least on how to not fail in the same way next time, fail 100 times and you discovered 100 mistakes to avoid, failed gambles don't teach you anything.
Great advice about starting betting small. I think it is fairly easy to think that if we invest our time and soul the reward will be equal, but that's not precisely true; better to take it one step at a time. I've published a couple of basic games in Steam and Google Play, and while I enjoyed accomplishing that, no real income came from it. The time was not completely wasted as I gained some expertise, but it is true I felt demoralized with the outcome. Thinking it now, my expectations were just not realistic. I've paused my indie game development hobbie for now, but the plan is to come back again stronger, hopefully with a better outcome that helps to pay the bills. Thanks for sharing your experience, and good luck with that new game, sounds promising!
Okay Thomas, I hear you. And I acknowledge the wisdom here. But I don't know what else to do and this scares me. I'd appreciate your thoughts/advise. My situation: I had a job and a life; then I got sick and had to move 700 miles, back in with my parents. I physically qualify for disability, but can't claim it (complicated). I can't drive and don't know anyone here, so i never leave the house. My life is already on hold, and the only way I can see to get out this holding pattern is by finding a way to support myself. I've always had a fascination with games anyway, and think I have something to offer especially in terms of feature design. Plus, I've no idea what else I'd do. I'm on month five of my current game project, and have at least four more months before I have anything close to releasable. I'm learning as I go(I knew nothing). I'm planning on releasing core gameplay and adding to it over time. I don't necessarily need this project to succeed, but I need game dev to succeed. This need is terrifying because it could, maybe likely, end badly, but it's certainly motivation.
Thomas, for the sake of transparancy (and a video that will do gangbusters) can you give us a breakdown on your income streams for 2021? i.e. Game Development income / TH-cam income / Course income / Brand Deals and/or affiliate income? This is ALL part of your business - not just the indie game dev stuff and its useful for people who want to emulate your success to get this kind of view if you are willing to provide it?
My first internship as a GPU software engineer I got because I made indie games in college. If you're a software engineer who wants to move to game programming, do indie projects. Actually, this applies to non-game software engineer stuff eg if you want to move from Android to web, hardware systems to users interface, Android to iOS, data science to software engineer, etc. Also, I don't think Thomas Brush is a fan, but indie games might also be a way to help get into some of the competitive game programmer grad schools.
Great video Thomas! Just one thing I wished you would change, the webinar about the top 3 secrets lacks timeline for rewinding the video. I cant rewind if I needed to hear something again etc.
The risks are just what's holding me back. Thanks for the video. I have come to the point that it is damaging my mental health to NOT risk it. And I think I found a way to go part time, by making it a safe job to be there for my kids (and two more). So, family time goes up... mental health goes up... money goes down but we'll still have enough to eat even if Game Dev does not pay off... quality time with my husband goes up because the chores will already be done when he comes home from work... Am I missing something? "Start small" is a lesson I learned the hard way, lol. I've made a new year's resolution to make a pong clone, a snake clone, and a single feature prototype for the core of my dream game.
I work at a grocery store and also still have high school. I try to do game dev for about an hour a day because I’m always tired by the time I get time to do it. I’m mostly doing game dev as a hobby, whilst learning web development too, accounting, and drawing. Anyway, I want to do something creative for my career. Im not quite sure what it is, I hope it’s game dev but I dunno. I always seem to have the problem where I get super motivated for about a week or two, try something then completely forget about game dev until 6 months later. Rinse and repeat. I’m going to try to stick with it even when I don’t want to. When I’d rather be sleeping or something.
Indie programming is not as silly as gambling, it is investing, even if you can't make it bring you money directly. Investing in coding expirience, in a way of thinking, way of problem-solving, in your portfolio. Also it is good creative hobby.
It is not just risky, but also hard. And most fail due to failing at marketing. I fail for same reason and I still fail, but I am not willing to give up. I wil learn, grind and persevere. I can afford to do that but not every one but yes it is only possible if you also have a side income.
It's the same as any business. It's always a risk. You can't guarantee that a game will be successful. You are taking the same risk as the big game dev companies. And sometimes they fail, with millions of dollars on the line.
Something I think is important that you touch on but you don't explicitly say: diversifying your portfolio is almost always less risky than going all in on one venture. Diversifying could be making games, and youtube, and selling assets; but diversifying can also be making more games. Don't spend five years on one game. You're putting all your eggs in one basket. Make many games. See what catches people's attention.
Thomas , you are amazing . You really tell the truth in your videos and i like that very much . I've already done a crappy game that i released on itchio , and now it's time to really start a new game that will be small and good . The truth is i want this game to fail , because we learn much more in failure . And all the time spent on this game will never be lost . It's simply more knowledge . If somewhere down the road i manage to succeed i will come back to you , and thank you for everything you say in your videos , you are an amazing youtuber and an amazing game dev. Happy new Year Thomas :)
An important point to remember, the game itself should never be an end goal but just a step that leads to something else, maybe another better game or a good portfolio entry for a job application. "dream games" are dangerous
I dont think that entrepreneurship can be compared to gambling honestly. Yes, they are both risky endeavors but entrepreneurship should be calculated risk. i.e. there are things you can do that are going to improve your chances of a successful outcome or minimise your downside. In gambling you can't do much to improve your chance of success - it's often pure luck.
That's why I started with a pixelart chess game. It limits scope creep and the time I can invest. I hope when it is finished I will have built my first solid community and can evolve my game to some more complex approaches and actually start making money. In Germany we have the opportunity to get a year money from the state to start a business. Actually I hope getting that money, so I can really focus without the struggle of working regular besides my project.
Every kind of business brings big risk. If I started counting amount of business I tried to run since age 15 (and I'm turning 34 next month) that flopped I would most likely get ultra depressed. No one can guarantee you that your business will bring big coin. But if you push hard enough and long enough eventually it pays off. I tried everything from retail stores to digital goods and I finally settled on freelance type business because It's something I'm pretty decent at. Yes indie game dev can be risky but you have to ask yourself if you are creating games only because you want to make big coin or is it because it's something you enjoy doing?
I didn't wanted to gamble, always wanted to be far away from business related stuff. But if the path of game development takes me through it, so be it. I am better of doing what i like , maybe i am an addict. But i will keep in mind to keep contact with family and friends.
If you spend 5 years on a project and were hating it all the way through, you definitely wasted your time. Games are fueled by passion and people can really see and feel when a game isn't made with it.
Time is money, but money is NOT time. If you are working on something for years and it is not fun, impacting your relationships.. even if you did make money at the end of it all.. it would not repair or bring those things back. Time is your biggest cost, use it wisely and be willing to lose some of it.
Agree with everything he said except implying Bitcoin is a bigger risk than stocks, lol, and I trade both. Bitcoin is risky if you think you're more clever than the markets and try to buy and sell frequently, sure, you'll bleed yourself to death by a thousand tiny cuts. If you FOMO buy coins when they're going up and panic sell as soon as it's down a few % then you're trading backwards and just giving money away. But it's actually not dangerous to gradually collect Bitcoin and hold it long-term. It's actually dangerous to hold the dollar long-term ... you think you're not losing money because the amount of dollars stays the same or increases by some pitiful 0.01% interest rate, but 10 years from now the cost of living will be double, perhaps more. This is a recurring pattern spanning decades and decades. And the pattern of Bitcoin rewarding long-term holders has held true for over a decade. No one ever got hurt from saving up Bitcoin over several years time, but if you just save US dollars you're feeling the pain every time you need a gallon of gas, groceries for your family or have to pay your rent ...
The hilarious and sad part is that you'll make more money specializing on a few parts of game dev like concept art, rigging, music composition, etc and doing commissions/contracts for other indie devs and AAA devs. Then dev your own game slowly with any extra money and time you get from those commissions or a day job. Those who made the most money during the gold rush were those who sold shovels.
If you make games in your spare time, it's not gambling because you'd have wasted your time on temporary experiences otherwise. You can either play a game for an hour and have fun and collect virtual coins/points or work on your game for an hour and always have that one hour of progress. Fun is fleeting. Progress is permanent.
My first game flopped. I knew it would but it was my first game ever and I used it to learn. That said, if game #2 flops, I might just do something else as a side business. No harm, no foul.
You also forget to mention that even though you may not succeed as an indie dev, the work and skills you develop could be valuable to an already existing studio.
Agreed. Small steps. I have a family and a nice desk job, and a gamer. I treat it as a hobby. So the risk is kinda small to me. Infact it kinda cost saving for me, cuz if i dont have this hobby, i ll be spending money elsewhere for a hobby. Already have gaming laptop & the sw tools are free (unity & krita). The only thing that cost me is a drawing tablet, you really need it for drawing. Just get the cheap one.
Have not watched you very activly in the last couple of month for different reasons and i was a bit demotivated but this Video is the damn good and important to see for like everyone just thanks for this huge help for me and all the others
I've already predicted that my game might flop when I release it. Then again, I'm making games because it's my passion and I love doing it. It's not entirely about the money for me. I have a decent job already. If I could make development my full time thing, then trust me, I will. That being said, I've already seen on the Chinese Zodiac that there's a huge chance my game will flop this year. With this in mind, I'm still proud to have gotten my game this far. The fact that I set a goal and I actually completed my game is satisfying enough for me. Life is a gamble and some people are just luckier than others.
Time is money but even more importantly that time is non-refundable experience. Make sure you identify the value of these experiences and make a conscious evaluation of whether it's actually worth it. If you absolutely love it then by all means shoot for the moon but if there's any doubt it's crucial to realize that you will not get this time back. Life is finite and it will end at an unknown point. Enjoy it by finding and doing the things you love everyday. Try anything. Be grateful for everything.
The best thing to do is to first secure an income... Any income that is time-independent like passive income, that way you will have all the time in the world and not have to worry about bills. then you could dedicate more time working on your game. What I did first was to create a passive income, now my income is like 90% passive, I have all the time in the world to focus on my game. Best if you could relocate to a cheaper place since your money is passive. Me for instance I will be relocating soon where my expenses will be cut by more than half so I could focus on my game full time
Just a take on indie dev being a gamble. It's most definitely not. It's much more about you as a creators skills and abilities in creating a fun experience, and using the tools for instance that steam gives you. As long as you make a good game, and get it out to people, people will buy and play it. It's all about making the right choices, which extends outside of game dev itself like release platforms and advertisements and such, as well as getting the game out to possible investors like game publishers and such. Make a good game, and it will almost always succeed. The hard part is understanding what your own game is, and figuring out if other people find it fun and enjoyable, instead of focusing on "This is my baby, i make the thing i want" which is often doomed to fail.
So I just subed and I'm here because I think I you are here to help those aren't sure in their life on what to do. I'm what you call flighty, I don't know what I Want to do. I try to make excuses to why I'm not successful. Watching your video show me that I want to work in game Indie Dev I want to create.
Sorry about the coughs! Recovering from that one virus going around. Thanks for watching guys.
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@Hasy are you cool with one day your kids feeling like you weren’t there enough? Work after they go to bed or before they wake up
Oh man, you actually caught it? Well, glad to see you're on the mend. Be well.
People should not be mad that you're getting paid, but they should be jealous of your glorious hair though!
@Hasy Put yourself in the mental scenario where you have to choose. That'll show you what's really important to you and where you should fall when in doubt.
Personally, want it more than you want air, at least in the micro. In the macro, know that air keeps you alive so you can pursue it but, if you need to hold your breath sometimes, know that that's an option.
Hey Thomas, how much should time should I gamble in my first commercial release? Its not my first game just the first commercial. I am planning to launch a kickstarter campaign but I am worried that if I say that people will claim their rewards in 3 years time they will change their mind to back
Considering how risky Indie dev is from a financial standpoint, it should be done as a hobby first. If you go into it or YT for the money, you'll inevitably become burned out or discouraged. Treating it as a hobby ensures you're not pouring in excessive time or money and levels expectations. Great vid, Thomas.
For sure! I totally agree :)
🧐 risk reduction comes to mind.
It isn’t risky to not make money as an indie dev. Well it isn’t if you make more money from selling people a false dream of being an indie dev like this guy^ 🤷♀️
Agreed! On that note I would say that treating it as a hobby rather than a high risk job can eliminate the fear and thus unlock our creativity, which could in turn generate great ideas, which could ironically get more sales.
On the other hand going into it as a hobby can lead to nothing ever coming out of it. When I went into it I put everything on the line and I never made anything as big as Thomas here. I dont encourage this though if you have a family to support. I surely wouldn't do this again if I had to do it now.
Love this video. I've released 3 games on Android, 5 games on the Roblox platform, and a handful of game jam games on itch, none of which have really taken off. But I've never given up on my dream of being a full time indie dev. All of those games have taught me one thing or another, which I carry forward to my next project. I'm moving forward now working on my first Steam release, which is very exciting. No matter how your games do, never give up. Keep going.
what steam game maybi ask ?
@@wophle It's in the very early development stage (don't even have a title yet), but it is going to be a 3D action RPG inspired by my 8 year old and one of his toys :)
What are the name of your games on android I would love to play them
@@xaeyr let me know when theres a release :)
Man!!! You are my inspiration. I have totally flopped my first game that I released on Steam. Worked days and nights to complete it forgetting everything. I will never give up
doing my indie game I am fully aware that I could fail horribly, but inside my heart I feel like I have to do it anyway
I think it kinda comes down to passion and balance. If it's something you wanna do, I think it's worth a try, but always keeping up the balance imo.
Same, I work in an office 40 hours a week, have a girlfriend and dog to give attention to at home, but I still try to find an hour or two a night to work on my game, every night if possible. Even if it sells 0 copies, I don't really care. Time enjoyed isn't time wasted, and I just enjoy the whole creative process :)
@@andrewc3294 Most people just watch Netflix or get drunk/partying. Game Dev is like doing art and programming. Which are both great hobbies! Alot of creative and logic thinking is involved.
@@PySnek Yes! 😪 You put it into words so beautifully! Game Development is the coolest hobby!
How's it going?
My brother and I worked on a game for a year after he got fired from COVID layoffs to try and “make it” as an indie dev. After releasing it, it flopped horribly, but his experience got him a job at Epic Games a few months later so it was actually a huge win. We’re working on a second game now just because we had so much fun making the first one and it’s a lot easier with more experience. Keep at it, and look for the small victories. Everyone is on a different path with this journey.
I think rougelike is a better metaphor than gambling. Yeah, there's luck involved, but a lot of the times it comes down to "did you play it as well as you could despite your luck?" and "how did you use the luck you were given?"
Fantastic analogy
I've been learning so much! Like, things I would never have thought I'd learn. Problem solving (skill/mindset), programming, art, design, patience, people I've met, I mean, it's all been amazing! Up and downs - sure. But still. And if it doesn't work out, I think I would never say "I failed". Thank you, Thomas. And happy new year everyone! ♥️
I was about to quit learning development because of the "horror stories", thank you for the inspiration. I will definitely keep learning now.
Making games is very hard. Developing a indie game solo is even harder. You also have to market your game, find a comunity interested in buying your game, port to other systems as much as you can, fix bugs, the amount of work is insane...
I'm so glad I came across this video of yours Thomas. I've been developing our game for nearly a year with the mentality of if I want this badly, I gotta be willing to sacrifice everything. For nearly a year combining the day time job I was working 70 hrs weeks, every week, being afraid of the risk of failing, without realizing this unrealistic work habit was the thing that introduced risk in the first place. I was making both of the mistakes that you outlined in your video. I was at the verge of a mental meltdown but luckily I found this video. While still keeping the hunger to learn, get better, and make progress, for now on I'll make sure I keep my family first, expectation low, and enjoy the process instead of looking at it as a responsibility I must upkeep. Thanks!
when you said "the things we do that makes it risky" I felt personally attacked :"D
I'm currently in my 4th year of the self destructive journey of making big indie game solo, recently I have started to learn to take things easier on myself and most importantly to not pause your life till you finish (cause it always takes more time than expected)... currently trying to balance between living life and pursuing developing the game.
loves your channel, it's really comforting seeing someone speaks up what we feel
This is a great video. If you are a solo dev you are much more likely to succeed if you have strong entrepreneur principles or instincts. If you don't respect your time and treat your art like a business you won't be able to succeed for very long. The section about learning something from failed projects is key. I am now 7 years into my indie game development journey, and this is the real first year that I am making a full time living from my games. It took project after project, learning from each one, making them each better bit by bit over years just to get to this point. I started from one of the lowest points possible, knowing virtually nothing, releasing what people considered one of the worst games of 2014, and I did not quit. If *I* can do it, others can too. There are many game developers much more talented than I. I wish everyone luck on their projects, failure will come, but that does not mean that is where you have to stay.
I've been working on games over the years, literally still being in school and graduated around last year, but all my games got deleted ,
my pc broke down a million times and my games vanished from my pc another million times, my programs which I used to make them got so many bugs that my games didn't even start at some point and it was making me so angry,
but I couldn't stop back then.
l just wanted to make games! Its all I ever wanted. I knew I had to keep on going, but only last year, l saw the results of my hart work.
All these games got deleted and it frustrated me that l'm only left with all the paper and books I've written with all my ideas and how to solve the problems I had while making those games.
That while I made my last game (bofore the current one), l actually noticed how much l've learned making them,
even if no-one will ever play them.
This knowledge made me help make my games not only faster, but Iet me succeed in the problems I used to have making games before.
And finally I upload my first game since years and for the first time l can say, l actually like what I did. I mean it's not a great game,
but I didn't meant to make the game to be like all the others. lt was just meant to be the way l wanted it to be and to me it succeeded in every way :)
So basically, I couldn't agree more with what you always say!
Indie game development should be fun for most part. It shouldn't be a burden or a new way to make money. I got my schedule down for game development with my streams that I do and I really enjoy it and it should be like that for new indie game developers
I disagree. If you are doing it for a hobby, then yes, you are right. But if you are looking to make income, then no. You should have times where it's a burden or a grind, but that comes with anything that you want to be great at. Every business will have that, either the marketing, the new content, debugging, scheduling, time management, R&D, or just being disciplined on days you don't feel like it. You can't succeed at anything without that grind.
1) every creative industry is very risky.
2) everything that has the potential to give you financial freedom (make millions) is risky!
choose ur poison, 9-5 (which is also risky, but the reward isn't alot), or risk a couple years pursuing what you love, if it works, great, if not, u got something amazing on ur resume and ur SUPER employable!
Great video Thomas!
I chose to build my game in the framework I use in my day job.
So if my game doesn't do well, I've still learned a lot that I can use in my day job and thus wouldn't feel like wasted time.
I absolutely agree with all of what you say. Personally, my dream is to tell emotional stories through video games. The thing is, even though there is a lot of encouragement from others to "follow your dreams", it is still risky at the end of the day. They really don't know what it takes. That's why I think It should always start as a hobby with just in mind curiosity towards that field. Then, if you win, then let's give it a shot. I've noticed ambition is never a good idea because you are never satisfied and it would burn you out. I love what you do Thomas, you inspire me to be a better game developer and a better person. Thank you!
Im Risking all my time . And Im ok with that. Because you need a goal and a dream In life. If I never give up I can never fail.
Ive been learning for a long time around my Job, wife & kids / Gym Life, But for me Game dev Is that Light In the distance Im aiming for.
same, game dev is my life goal/dream, not just making a dream game/s, already just being a full time game dev is my dream
Despite all the risk of failing, be sure to do it, because if you don't start and make your game or whatever project you want, and you don't succeed, at least you won't regret never having started
You dont have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great
I think the scariest stories I've heard were some indie studios would release something that's critically acclaimed, but tank on sales. Or would release their game, but didn't receive their payment on time and would get evicted from their home.
I mean, I like the idea of having to work on my own. Or at least having creative control, without having some producer telling me what to do. But I also fear that I wouldn't make enough money to financially support myself.
I've never actually seen proof of a game releasing to critical acclaim and tanking on sales. Sounds made up to me.
@@Konitama Grim Fandango?
@@Konitama Okami?
Do you happen to know what game it was that flopped resulting in the dev saying Thomas is misleading?
@@hanzflackshnack1158 No clue. Sorry.
My idea is while being commercial webdev, constantly learn/develop games and try new things in gamedev, then making the transition to gamedev will be possible, maybe release some game in the future (not even for money) or at least learn enough to join gamedev team which will allow to learn even more.... etc
How fortunate do you have to be to find a gamedev team that's willing to accept you in?
@@slykhajiit2
it is easy to find gigs online, especially if you know both C++ and C# and are good at both languages and Unreal Engine and Unity.
The bigger question is : is it easy to find good paying gigs at entry level? Not so much.
What I wish I would have done is lots of smaller projects to add to my portfolio then leverage that to a full time, higher paying position.
I've been back and forward about beign a game dev, mostly because I haven't taken it seriously. But as an entrepreneur, with some solid success in tech, but damn I' have more failures than successes, I'll say that the problem with this industry is that is like any other entrepreneurship project but only a few face it like that. Thomas is doing a great job by addressing the Marketing activities in the first step (what about a course about this and only this? :D). I'm not a student of his courses, but I've been following his videos and they overlap A LOT with tech & innovation industry in general, and for me, that's a solid 10. Great work, Thomas.
I've known a lot of entrepreneurs over the years, and all of them had this inhumanly high risk tollerance. I don't get it. I'm risk averse. But I've always felt that there have to be less high-risk ways to get into business for myself. I've been a frelance artist and hated every minute of it, each hour of my work was time wasted if my client decided to just not pay me (it happened enough that i quit freelancing). Your advice on this is astoundingly simple and logical. Thank you so much, you motivate me to continue learning more than anyone else I follow. I've been trying to get into your Game Dev class since you launched it but ... yadda yadda, finances, unemployment, etc. I'm really hoping to afford it in the new year and get some traction on developing some of my ideas.
Very interesting thoughts! I’m so happy I could help, good luck on your journey
Just remember, you have to risk it to get the biscuit. The high risk people end up coming out on top because they end up doing what no one else is doing or doing it quicker than anyone else. Of course, a lot of them fail too. But that's why they are there first, like Thomas.
This is probably one of your best videos. Getting down to the nitty gritty of game dev, I think this video will actually help people on if this is something they will want to spend their time on.
I’m not even in the industry but it sounds a shitload more practical to just practice making a game as a side project to help focus on fine tuning a single aspect of game creation (seeing as normally in the industry you wouldn’t touch writing, art/animation, marketing, etc if you’re responsible for coding enemy ai for example) then if the game turns out to be an out of nowhere hit, all the better. This is assuming you want to get your foot in the door of the industry to get work at an indie studio instead of spending years on a huge gamble that could fall flat…. But i suppose it’s not impossible to be the jack of all trades, just assuming it’d be better to focus on being great at one aspect to get into the industry as a whole
Good video and good points. I think the most important point in all of this, is the thing about starting small. Don't go big, don't make your dream game. I know so many people who went all in on their big idea dream game and got burnt out after barely getting to 5% completion.
I'm lucky enough to work full time as a hired game dev so I get to see first hand how much work a full game takes. For anyone reading this, wanting to create your big idea and have barely finished any games so far. Please reconsider! Create small games! Many, and terrible games. That's how I started and I know many others started. You'll learn and grow and get more confident. You'll also get a more realistic perspective on things.
Just as important though, have fun when you make these smaller games. Don't make them just for the sake of it, you can still go with goofy or fun ideas.
Amazing advice right here
I think this really just depends on the person. It's good advice in general but not a hard set rule.
@@Konitama Agreed. It depends on the circumstances. If you are an experienced dev or have experience devs on your team with money, you know how to market, have a good game idea you can sell a potential hit.
My mindset has always been around the fact of whatever happens is my fault. If I make a game and it flops, it's my fault because somewhere somehow I did something wrong. Same applies to if a game developed did well. Somewhere. Somehow I or someone else did something right.
@@Konitama Sure! But me saying "... and have barely finished any games so far" I think it's getting closer to a hard set rule (there are always exceptions of course). Naturally, if you've already made a few games either by yourself or with a game studio, you might be able to pull it off, if you know what you're going into.
I think that even if a game flops if you want to become a game dev you can use that flop to maybe find a job in game dev. But thing is you can still use the knowledge you learned to go further as a programmer or as a automation engineer so there are many positive to try creating games. It's a fun way to learn programming learn to create art that applies to me if I haven't had the ideea to make the game I would have never studied creating art in photoshop.
My best advice would be to make a Kickstarter as soon as possible and ask for a decent amount. Do not make the game if you can't get the funds. Move on to a new idea or whatever.
This is good advice. What I came to realise is that game dev is firstly a hobby. I enjoy making games more when I'm not focused on money. What I ultimately want is to create games that other people can have fun playing. I'd much rather make games that more people play, than make games that sell well (although both would be nice too). I have a full time job (not game-related) so that definitely helps take the pressure off. I mostly create games for the creative outlet and learning experience. There's also indie game dev communities to be part of as well.
Imagine not wanting to play tennis just because you couldn't make it as a paid professional tennis player. That's how I feel about making games. It's my hobby. Why would I give it up just because the thing I made didn't earn money? It's still fun, and it still brings joy to my life and others.
One of the bests, no, it is the best video you've made about the topic, good to see how you could speak from your heart. Thanks!
I think this is great advice coming from some what of an entrepreneur myself. I've tattooed professionally for the last 10 years or so roughly. Throughout that time there has been tons of ups and downs due to world events, life events, and more. Someone going into something that is never guaranteed should tread lightly so they don't burn themselves. I'm now in the process of going to school to brush up on more skills and hopefully land a job with a game development company. While working with a company hopefully make some projects on the side, along with various other skills and income I have at play.
Nothing is ever easy whether it's game development or freelancing as a web developer... glad Thomas is keeping it real while staying positive
I'm a indie creator and I stream game plays on twitch and upload to you tube , I would like to create a game and finish it and sell it commercially at least one game in my life where I can say I've done it , this video has helped me to be more motivated on finishing my game and even putting more in in my live streams, my main priority would be to create games and secondary live streaming full time :)
Being a game dev make us never take for granted the greatest games that exist out there
I recently gave up indie game dev (temporarily).
As a context, I am a fulltime web dev and I find myself hating my career so much. I am desperate to find an alternative, and one of the alternative was indie game dev.
But I know, I need a steady stream of income. So the plan was make some games and get some steady income from it first, before I leave my web dev career behind.
Until last week, I have spent all my weekend doing just that. I wanted to be like you and other gamedev utubers... I made a youtube channel, im thinking I could advertise my game there by making devlogs, i planned my development and milestones to hit.. and just started developing... showed my friends/family, my gf, reddit, and some even praised me making me wanna go even further...
Thinking, if I am willing to suffer, it is going to pay off one day. And that is my ticket out of web dev.
Recently, while reviewing my year, I realized, I hv relied on the most risky plan to get myself out of my webdev career... that one thing that I am so desperate about. If I fail, not only I will b depressed, im back to being stuck in the career that I dont want.
Hence, ytd I shelved my game dev process, promised not to look at it until I am ready again one day.
I decided to invest in other skills that could potentially land me stable job closer to game dev industry instead.
Your video today, further support my decision. Thanks... I kinda needed it.
Why do you hate your current job??? I'm concerned because I plan to learn web dev and maybe persue it as a career.
@@abnox1779 Hey. Short story, its just because it wasn't my choice of career to begin with. :D It's a personal complication so perhaps it might not apply to you.
Long story: I graduated from Mechatronics Engineering and found out im absolute shit at it in real world.
So i chose this web dev career as an alternative because it is something I am good at that point of time (4 years ago). Web dev was not my interest but I didn't had a choice as I have loan to pay and mouths to feed, father left and mom was sick, and web dev pays very well.
Fast forward last year, I worked for a startup and got burnt out very bad. Constant crunch, stress and sleepless nights finally gave me diabetes. All that in 6 months
To add to that, when I was 18, I had always wanted to do something creative like illustration and 3D modelling. I'd like to tell story through those medium. But my typical asian parent thinks it is a waste of time.
And that's why I hated my job. I hated it because, all these was never my choice to begin with. I was never in control of my future.
Does it matter? I don't know. But I had to try to change it right?
Now that my mom is getting better, my sis is growing independent, my loan is almost fully paid off... I think its time to make my own choice this time.
@@cptfurball Is webdev always stressful and difficult or was it the place where you used to work?
about me:
I dont have any experience in web dev yet but i have used a little bit of unity and found that sometimes programming part is enjoyable so might as well try something similar since gamedev is less safe and webdev pays well.
I dont have any passions or dreams so What I'm looking for is a profession that pays well while not making me miserable.
Sorry if these questions are annoying im just curious about the profession im considering.
edit: i dont have a passion BUT comparatively im more interested in computer related stuff than other fields
@@cptfurball Thanks for the long informative reply i Appreciate
Good decision i think for your situation. You need stable income 1st until you stable(at least financially) before jumping to be a full indie game dev.
Great video, Thomas! Taking risks definitely falls under the adventure of game development, especially as an indie dev. Through building a community, can gain some great opportunities and achieve some great milestones, too, and this can definitely help with the process and the love you build for the game you're developing! Anything's possible :)
Time is not money. You should spend more time thinking about that, brothers. Your spirit is stronger than that.
Great video, Thomas. You're a real one.
Well said. Our games deserve nothing but our patience and love. The audience can smell when a game is just another cash grab.
Thank you for these words of wisdom. I think the key takeaway here is it's ok to fail, as long as you try to take the audience/lessons from the failures and apply them to your next gamedev project.
I’ve been working on a project on and off for 5 years (a lot of life got in the way) just to learn how to program and learn the game development process. Is it a fantastic game? No, but I have learned SO MUCH, and I’m going to release it on steam just to learn that process as well. If I sell one copy I’ll be content and I will start working on starting my indie studio with games I truly care about.
Gamedev is just online retail essentially, you have to build a brand before you can expect consistency in income.
Steve Jobs had immense difficulty selling Apple products before his company was well known.
I love how he put in a fancy text animation to say "sorry about the nose spray"
Lol yeah…
i just started game dev'ing with a full time job.
i'm having a blast. don't plan to make it my full time but if it works out then cool.
if not, whatever, it's a really fun time. :)
I think as a creative you need to diversify your income betting everything on your craft selling is risky. Most creatives make money off of teaching, merch, patreon or showing the process. Making a community is key, great work Thomas.
I would rebuttal your casino gambling analogy. Casino gambling is based on luck. Game dev often does have an element of some luck to a point but you do have much more control over the outcome. The effort you put in has a much higher factor in your success unlike casino gambling. Another difference is exposure. In a casino, the more people around a craps table, for example, doesn't improve your odds. However, the more people that know about your game improves your odds proportionately. The best thing you said was comparing game dev to being an entrepreneur, because that's what it is. Becoming a game dev is an entrepreneur venture, and all startup businesses are risky. I've done both to varying degrees of success. Game dev is like starting any other business, except you get to play and build games for a living!!
I recently started showing interest in coding and Gamedev and i found your channel. Its been so much helpful i cant even express how much grateful i am for your videos. Im already creating my first game plan and working on a good story and drawing my imagination for it. Hopefully it sucks and people give me real reviews which will help me improve. As for the risk.. well its like you said jumping of a clif with a parachute but this time.. as soon as i jump i remember that I made that parachute 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, the plus is that we gain skills as we work on projects that may be doomed to failure.
lol it is not the "same thing" as going to the casino... Eventually you can crack the code of gamedev and be successful at it.. The difference is that the casino always wins. I understand that entrepreneurship is a gamble but saying it is the "same thing" as going to the casino is simply not true. After 6 years of my gamdev journey I have gained so many skills that could get me a variety of jobs if I needed.
Yeah my eyebrow went up when he compared game dev to gambling... a more apt comparison is just... starting up a business. I think instead of comparing game dev to gambling he could have just said there are risks involved.
Create a game for the journey, the fulfilment, the fun, the passion and personal growth. Be selfish, make the game you want. Be satisfied with your achievements, your development and your endeavour whether you finish it or you don't. If you make a game there will always be people who enjoy playing it. The amount of people is irrelevant. A huge impact on 1 persons life can be equal to small impact on the many. Don't get sucked in to the numbers game that is the internet. Keep your circles small and invest into them. Money should be a reward not an incentive.
This was awesome! I'd love to see some small videos of u making 10 or 20 minute games as examples of what they can teach u as a indie game dev just starting out. Like me. Kind of a ($0 budget hypothetical game dev newbie) series if that makes sense. Just a thought.
Like in all business ventures. You want to be skeptically optimistic. So either way it’s all good
Another path is if you're an 20s new grad living with your parents. This is what Tommy Refenes (Super Meatboy) and Eric Barone (Stardew Valley) did. The DARQ guy is another example he was in the USA alone (no parents) but had money saved from day job and kickstarter before he went full-time.
After losing my job, I've decided to spend 6-8 months with no income to focus on making my indie game. But I treat it more like an unpaid vacation during which I'm doing the thing I love, and I've made this decision only after making sure I won't go bankrupt if the game flops.
Some people waste money on tropical islands - I waste money on having a life while also making an indie game.
Same here lol
Well... actually... I took a break from my work so I told them I was leaving.
Expected 3 months but ended up taking longer. It's almost been a year in a few days...
Does someone know a name of the video he's talking about? I would like to watch it.
As for me, I just love solo game developing, it brings me confidence, that I have created something.
I know it really affects mental and physical health, as you keep asking yourself that when will the game be completed and put pressure on yourself due to this.
I would say always start creating a game expecting failures to happen. If you start making a game expecting 6 figures and hurrying it, you will definitely fail.
First give it out for testing in your group of friends and ask for their feedback. Here the negative feedback should be acknowledged. This will help you to know your wrongs which needs to be corrected and enhanced, Once all things are done relaunch the game. You will expect better results this time.
Can anyone tell me the name of the guys who made the video. I want to try and study him to see where he went wrong.
Excellent advice. You need to expect to fail, it will make you do all the things you need to do to be known, everything you need to learn to make better games, get feedback, find marketing opportunities and make your game small enough that it wont kill you and it might not fail because you worked like it could, but then can also fail, but you didnt waste 5 years of your life, learn nothing other than bitterness.
Great advice on the entrepreneurial aspect of game dev. It IS a business, and should be treated as so
If the process of making the game is not in itself a pleasurable activity, then do something else. If you did not have fun making the game then that is an indication that other people will probably not have fun playing it. If you have as much fun making a game as you would have had playing one, then any income you may make from it is a bonus, and if the game is made with love it will show in the end result.
Comparing work with gambling is always wrong, and I know cause I was addicted to gambling.
Failed projects teach you lessons on how to succeed next time or at least on how to not fail in the same way next time, fail 100 times and you discovered 100 mistakes to avoid, failed gambles don't teach you anything.
Great advice about starting betting small. I think it is fairly easy to think that if we invest our time and soul the reward will be equal, but that's not precisely true; better to take it one step at a time. I've published a couple of basic games in Steam and Google Play, and while I enjoyed accomplishing that, no real income came from it. The time was not completely wasted as I gained some expertise, but it is true I felt demoralized with the outcome. Thinking it now, my expectations were just not realistic.
I've paused my indie game development hobbie for now, but the plan is to come back again stronger, hopefully with a better outcome that helps to pay the bills. Thanks for sharing your experience, and good luck with that new game, sounds promising!
Okay Thomas, I hear you. And I acknowledge the wisdom here. But I don't know what else to do and this scares me. I'd appreciate your thoughts/advise.
My situation:
I had a job and a life; then I got sick and had to move 700 miles, back in with my parents. I physically qualify for disability, but can't claim it (complicated). I can't drive and don't know anyone here, so i never leave the house.
My life is already on hold, and the only way I can see to get out this holding pattern is by finding a way to support myself. I've always had a fascination with games anyway, and think I have something to offer especially in terms of feature design. Plus, I've no idea what else I'd do. I'm on month five of my current game project, and have at least four more months before I have anything close to releasable. I'm learning as I go(I knew nothing). I'm planning on releasing core gameplay and adding to it over time.
I don't necessarily need this project to succeed, but I need game dev to succeed. This need is terrifying because it could, maybe likely, end badly, but it's certainly motivation.
Thomas, for the sake of transparancy (and a video that will do gangbusters) can you give us a breakdown on your income streams for 2021? i.e. Game Development income / TH-cam income / Course income / Brand Deals and/or affiliate income? This is ALL part of your business - not just the indie game dev stuff and its useful for people who want to emulate your success to get this kind of view if you are willing to provide it?
My first internship as a GPU software engineer I got because I made indie games in college. If you're a software engineer who wants to move to game programming, do indie projects. Actually, this applies to non-game software engineer stuff eg if you want to move from Android to web, hardware systems to users interface, Android to iOS, data science to software engineer, etc. Also, I don't think Thomas Brush is a fan, but indie games might also be a way to help get into some of the competitive game programmer grad schools.
Great video Thomas! Just one thing I wished you would change, the webinar about the top 3 secrets lacks timeline for rewinding the video. I cant rewind if I needed to hear something again etc.
I've just subscribed to your channel, and I love it. Thank you, Thomas, for sharing your experience, knowledge and skills.
The risks are just what's holding me back. Thanks for the video. I have come to the point that it is damaging my mental health to NOT risk it. And I think I found a way to go part time, by making it a safe job to be there for my kids (and two more). So, family time goes up... mental health goes up... money goes down but we'll still have enough to eat even if Game Dev does not pay off... quality time with my husband goes up because the chores will already be done when he comes home from work... Am I missing something?
"Start small" is a lesson I learned the hard way, lol. I've made a new year's resolution to make a pong clone, a snake clone, and a single feature prototype for the core of my dream game.
I work at a grocery store and also still have high school. I try to do game dev for about an hour a day because I’m always tired by the time I get time to do it. I’m mostly doing game dev as a hobby, whilst learning web development too, accounting, and drawing. Anyway, I want to do something creative for my career. Im not quite sure what it is, I hope it’s game dev but I dunno. I always seem to have the problem where I get super motivated for about a week or two, try something then completely forget about game dev until 6 months later. Rinse and repeat. I’m going to try to stick with it even when I don’t want to. When I’d rather be sleeping or something.
Indie programming is not as silly as gambling, it is investing, even if you can't make it bring you money directly.
Investing in coding expirience, in a way of thinking, way of problem-solving, in your portfolio. Also it is good creative hobby.
World is blank without game
It is not just risky, but also hard. And most fail due to failing at marketing. I fail for same reason and I still fail, but I am not willing to give up. I wil learn, grind and persevere. I can afford to do that but not every one but yes it is only possible if you also have a side income.
It's the same as any business. It's always a risk. You can't guarantee that a game will be successful. You are taking the same risk as the big game dev companies. And sometimes they fail, with millions of dollars on the line.
Something I think is important that you touch on but you don't explicitly say: diversifying your portfolio is almost always less risky than going all in on one venture. Diversifying could be making games, and youtube, and selling assets; but diversifying can also be making more games. Don't spend five years on one game. You're putting all your eggs in one basket. Make many games. See what catches people's attention.
Thomas , you are amazing . You really tell the truth in your videos and i like that very much . I've already done a crappy game that i released on itchio , and now it's time to really start a new game that will be small and good . The truth is i want this game to fail , because we learn much more in failure . And all the time spent on this game will never be lost . It's simply more knowledge . If somewhere down the road i manage to succeed i will come back to you , and thank you for everything you say in your videos , you are an amazing youtuber and an amazing game dev. Happy new Year Thomas :)
An important point to remember, the game itself should never be an end goal but just a step that leads to something else, maybe another better game or a good portfolio entry for a job application. "dream games" are dangerous
I think I needed to hear this
I consider working on a game more than 3month in beginning is long time. Thank you so much for sharing this thomas
I dont think that entrepreneurship can be compared to gambling honestly. Yes, they are both risky endeavors but entrepreneurship should be calculated risk. i.e. there are things you can do that are going to improve your chances of a successful outcome or minimise your downside. In gambling you can't do much to improve your chance of success - it's often pure luck.
That's why I started with a pixelart chess game. It limits scope creep and the time I can invest. I hope when it is finished I will have built my first solid community and can evolve my game to some more complex approaches and actually start making money.
In Germany we have the opportunity to get a year money from the state to start a business. Actually I hope getting that money, so I can really focus without the struggle of working regular besides my project.
Every kind of business brings big risk. If I started counting amount of business I tried to run since age 15 (and I'm turning 34 next month) that flopped I would most likely get ultra depressed. No one can guarantee you that your business will bring big coin. But if you push hard enough and long enough eventually it pays off.
I tried everything from retail stores to digital goods and I finally settled on freelance type business because It's something I'm pretty decent at.
Yes indie game dev can be risky but you have to ask yourself if you are creating games only because you want to make big coin or is it because it's something you enjoy doing?
I didn't wanted to gamble, always wanted to be far away from business related stuff. But if the path of game development takes me through it, so be it. I am better of doing what i like , maybe i am an addict. But i will keep in mind to keep contact with family and friends.
If you spend 5 years on a project and were hating it all the way through, you definitely wasted your time. Games are fueled by passion and people can really see and feel when a game isn't made with it.
Time is money, but money is NOT time.
If you are working on something for years and it is not fun, impacting your relationships.. even if you did make money at the end of it all.. it would not repair or bring those things back. Time is your biggest cost, use it wisely and be willing to lose some of it.
Agree with everything he said except implying Bitcoin is a bigger risk than stocks, lol, and I trade both. Bitcoin is risky if you think you're more clever than the markets and try to buy and sell frequently, sure, you'll bleed yourself to death by a thousand tiny cuts. If you FOMO buy coins when they're going up and panic sell as soon as it's down a few % then you're trading backwards and just giving money away. But it's actually not dangerous to gradually collect Bitcoin and hold it long-term. It's actually dangerous to hold the dollar long-term ... you think you're not losing money because the amount of dollars stays the same or increases by some pitiful 0.01% interest rate, but 10 years from now the cost of living will be double, perhaps more. This is a recurring pattern spanning decades and decades. And the pattern of Bitcoin rewarding long-term holders has held true for over a decade. No one ever got hurt from saving up Bitcoin over several years time, but if you just save US dollars you're feeling the pain every time you need a gallon of gas, groceries for your family or have to pay your rent ...
The hilarious and sad part is that you'll make more money specializing on a few parts of game dev like concept art, rigging, music composition, etc and doing commissions/contracts for other indie devs and AAA devs. Then dev your own game slowly with any extra money and time you get from those commissions or a day job. Those who made the most money during the gold rush were those who sold shovels.
If you make games in your spare time, it's not gambling because you'd have wasted your time on temporary experiences otherwise. You can either play a game for an hour and have fun and collect virtual coins/points or work on your game for an hour and always have that one hour of progress.
Fun is fleeting. Progress is permanent.
This is such an awesome channel, great video as well. I wish I could afford your course
5 years 1 bad game. vs 5 years 10 bad games 1 good game
My first game flopped. I knew it would but it was my first game ever and I used it to learn. That said, if game #2 flops, I might just do something else as a side business. No harm, no foul.
You also forget to mention that even though you may not succeed as an indie dev, the work and skills you develop could be valuable to an already existing studio.
Agreed. Small steps. I have a family and a nice desk job, and a gamer. I treat it as a hobby. So the risk is kinda small to me. Infact it kinda cost saving for me, cuz if i dont have this hobby, i ll be spending money elsewhere for a hobby. Already have gaming laptop & the sw tools are free (unity & krita). The only thing that cost me is a drawing tablet, you really need it for drawing. Just get the cheap one.
Have not watched you very activly in the last couple of month for different reasons and i was a bit demotivated but this Video is the damn good and important to see for like everyone just thanks for this huge help for me and all the others
I've already predicted that my game might flop when I release it. Then again, I'm making games because it's my passion and I love doing it. It's not entirely about the money for me. I have a decent job already. If I could make development my full time thing, then trust me, I will. That being said, I've already seen on the Chinese Zodiac that there's a huge chance my game will flop this year. With this in mind, I'm still proud to have gotten my game this far. The fact that I set a goal and I actually completed my game is satisfying enough for me. Life is a gamble and some people are just luckier than others.
Time is money but even more importantly that time is non-refundable experience. Make sure you identify the value of these experiences and make a conscious evaluation of whether it's actually worth it. If you absolutely love it then by all means shoot for the moon but if there's any doubt it's crucial to realize that you will not get this time back.
Life is finite and it will end at an unknown point. Enjoy it by finding and doing the things you love everyday.
Try anything.
Be grateful for everything.
But it’s NOT a waste even if your game doesn’t make money because you will learn SO MUCH along the way!!!
I thought you were gonna go, "I had a friend, no need to mention who it is, *COUGHS*mentions the name*COUGHS.
My man dishing out truth. Love this, love the message, and love the honesty.
As a fellow GameDev Dad, Daniel Tiger is also in my background lol.
The best thing to do is to first secure an income... Any income that is time-independent like passive income, that way you will have all the time in the world and not have to worry about bills. then you could dedicate more time working on your game.
What I did first was to create a passive income, now my income is like 90% passive, I have all the time in the world to focus on my game.
Best if you could relocate to a cheaper place since your money is passive. Me for instance I will be relocating soon where my expenses will be cut by more than half so I could focus on my game full time
Just a take on indie dev being a gamble.
It's most definitely not. It's much more about you as a creators skills and abilities in creating a fun experience, and using the tools for instance that steam gives you. As long as you make a good game, and get it out to people, people will buy and play it. It's all about making the right choices, which extends outside of game dev itself like release platforms and advertisements and such, as well as getting the game out to possible investors like game publishers and such. Make a good game, and it will almost always succeed.
The hard part is understanding what your own game is, and figuring out if other people find it fun and enjoyable, instead of focusing on "This is my baby, i make the thing i want" which is often doomed to fail.
What was the game that didn't do well leading to claims that Thomas is misleading his audience?
So I just subed and I'm here because I think I you are here to help those aren't sure in their life on what to do. I'm what you call flighty, I don't know what I Want to do. I try to make excuses to why I'm not successful. Watching your video show me that I want to work in game Indie Dev I want to create.
That’s awesome! Don’t offer up your time and energy if you’re not willing to lose it :) good luck!