Islam, Authoritarianism and Underdevelopment: A Global and Historical Comparison | Prof Ahmet T Kuru
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2023
- In this session, Ahmet Kuru will elaborate an argument about the ulema-state alliance as the cause of authoritarianism and underdevelopment in the Muslim world from the eleventh century to the present. Criticizing essentialist, post-colonialist, and new institutionalist explanations, Kuru focuses on the relations between intellectual, economic, religious, and political classes in his analysis.
This session will be moderated by Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy.
About the Speaker:
Ahmet T. Kuru (PhD, University of Washington) is the director of Center for Islamic and Arabic Studies and past Bruce E. Porteous Professor of Political Science at San Diego State University. He was a postdoctoral scholar at Columbia University. Kuru is the author of Secularism and State Policies toward Religion: The United States, France, and Turkey (Cambridge University Press, 2009), which received Society for the Scientific Study of Religion (SSSR)’s Book Award. He is also the co-editor (with Alfred Stepan) of Democracy, Islam, and Secularism in Turkey (Columbia University Press, 2012). Kuru’s articles appeared in various journals including World Politics, Comparative Politics, and Political Science Quarterly. His recent book, Islam, Authoritarianism, and Underdevelopment: A Global and Historical Comparison (Cambridge University Press, 2019) co-won the American Political Science Association’s International History and Politics Section Award, received honorable mention of SSSR’s Award, and was included in Times Literary Supplement’s Books of the Year. Kuru’s works have been translated into Arabic, Bosnian, Chinese, French, Indonesian, Malay, Persian, and Turkish.
The Islamic Conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precarious thing, whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within.
- By Will Durant an American writer, historian, and philosopher.
Intefesting session. Very good questions from Dr H. My observations:
1. The map of mutual " empire" in 8ndia is a joke. It never 3xtended below vidhyas and central Manhattan pradesh to the south. Mutual is alien to entire South India including orissa. This is a pak fantasy.
2. I travel to Indonesia regularly for my work. Indonesia was a Hindu country before Islam mixed with
HINDUISM reached its shores ( and Malaysia). Until many years ago, most Indonesians had South Indian names and were nominal Muslims. There were no headscarves and hardly any burquas. But Wahbism came through laborers returning from middle east and changed a lot. Men as in Pakistan started adopting weird middle Eastern names. My female colleagues went from modest dresses to burquas and hijab. In art and music the local puppetry, stage, and music is all 100% from Ramayana and Mahabharata and inspite of everything continues to exist even today.
3. It is Indian Muslims that are headed backwards aping Pakistanis and wahabism. It is shocking to see burquas everywhere when only a little existed 2 decades ago. instead of using the the abundant STEM education availability, many Muslims are going to madarases to memorize Koran or attending 3 years Arabic colleges to learn Arabic ! What will they do after that ? Indian Muslims are becoming a huge liability for India.
Seems the Indian subcontinent Muslim followed the rest of Muslim and lost their zeal.. And become confused society... They were not associated with turkey, middle East, arabic, irani but acquired their identity and lost their Indian sub continent roots. They forget that they just change the way of prayer not Indian sub continent heritage and lineage.. Not sure how the Indian sub continent relates to turkey, middle East, arab etc.
I have read Ahmet Kuru's book. I cannot agree with one of his key assumptions. He is saying that because early Islamic society was progressive and facilitated science and philosophy, Islam (the religion based on Quran and hadiths) is also progressive. Actually the early Islamic societies progressed mainly because Islam was being followed more in the breach than in observance (except for periodic reversals). During the early centuries debates were common about Islam, the sort of debates nowadays would cost the debater's head. It was by mid 11th century (probably circa 1065 CE) when the Nizamiya revolution began in the Middle East that the real Islam-based Sharia law began to be standardized and implemented. From that point onwards, the Middle Eastern free thinking became increasingly stifled.
Thus on the imposition of real Islam based on quran and hadiths (which actually actively suppress free thinking and are anti-educational) that Islamic societies began to gradually underperform.
Prof Kuru is placing the beginning of underperformance from 16th century (not participating in printing revolution). But even before that Islamic societies had become set on their ways that printing presses would have been stifled.
To conclude, it will be grossly misleading to give the audience the impression that Islam by itself is pro-science and pro-rationalism. And such mistaken beliefs in popular mind will make it much more difficult to eradicate the real elephants in the room -- Quran and hadiths --- from Muslim minds.
Sorry to upset anyone by what I said above. Facts are facts.
Mr. Ahmet you said arab muslims learn math from India. So India had some influence in Islam. But neither pakistani muslim nor bangladeshi muslim acknowledge this fact. They said India gave nothing to Islam but Islam brings many things in Indian subcontinent. How could you elaborate it?
During first 2 to 300 years after the advent of Islam, most of the people were still using the old religious values (non-Islam) hence they continued to prosper. Once everybody turned moslem, then the growth stopped. And that is what is the true nature of Islam.
Whenever any part of islamic scriptures is questioned and found anti-humanity, it is defended by arguing that it is wrongly translated ! Thus the problem of islam is that all the translations of Quran and Hadis are faulty and nobody has "right" translation !!!!!
Finally, an important perspective from my hero's (Ataturk) homeland. Pakistan's transition into secularism will be far more difficult (and bloodier) because of a larger population and the age of social media that reinforces harmful addictions.
It’s not Mughals economic success..Indians have always been economically and educationally successful cuz of the diverse plural liberal mindset…it’s just an aberration of 300 yrs when Europeans took over when India was crushed by Islamic invaders and looters..Islam and Christianity is the cause of dark ages..in wester Europe it ended due to the fall of Constantinople, when many Roman Greeks scholars ran to wester Europe and spark renaissance…Indians Greek Persians were plural liberal diverse progressive societies where diverse ideas flourished…..after this bigoted monist so called Abrahamic cult Christianity and Islam took over and restrained progress…the unfortunate part is that it’s still going on…
How the history stated by guest speaker is history of indian sub continent muslim? Just boc people in indian sub continent converted and adopted Islam that doesn't mean they neglect indian sub continent roots and associate their identity to outside Indian sub continent
Mr Hoodboy, Arab Muslims learned math, the language of science, from Bharatiye kaafirs and taught it to Europeans..no math no logic no science especially physics..ab kaise hoga! 😀
I believe that the history of Islam on the Indian subcontinent will need to be written separately. It has not even been researched in a thorough, unbiased unbiased manner.For example, Shia and Sunni variants have progress progres ed very differently in different parts.
God! Thanks the Blackhole astronomically. I am researching on this topic for last two years. This is gonna help me in my book.
Fascinating program ❤
12:01 The four classes laid out by the speaker is embedded in the "chatur varna" concept of Sanatan Dharma.
Watching from India.
Very interesting subject. Appreciated.
Thanks for Uncovering the Root causes of Scientific thinking in the Muslim hystories🙏
MBS may not only bring out Saudi Arabia out of the stone age but the entire contemporary Islamic Civilisation as well.. 😊
An impressive and thought provoking lecture by Professor Ahmed followed by an interesting question answer session.
The Black Hole is really doing a great job.
Can anyone tell which Koranic verse is Ahmet Kuru referring to at 1:13:13. Thanks.
Very strange on friday prayer.. Innovation is bad and lead to hell.... And the funy part is maulvi sahab is speaking on a mic with speaker😵😵😵 a science instument or device
Excellent analysis . Nice to see Shakil sir in audience.
This show is more famous in INDIA than Pakistan.
Good Morning Vietnam!
❤
Had we did discussion like this for at least post independence. We would have solved Kashmiri, NE and other upcoming issues.
1:05:30 will irk some Indians, and I'll agree with them, not Ahmet. A populist version of secular nationalism is absolutely essential to unite a fragmented country like Pakistan. Imran Khan (minus the Islamic touch) had all the ingredients to do the same for Pakistan, but then again, he used to win only 1 seat before he started saying iyakanabudu waiuakanastaeen in 2011.
AI and social media’s impact on the generational & historical conundrum remains to be contemplated
The cultural-civilizational nature that nurtures curiosity is what? That question was raised by Hoodboy- it is the question for ever.
Heartiest congratulations for your book and discussions. Kindly inform whenever you will visit Pakistan. I am in Karachi but will travel to meet you personally. My concern is that officially Physical Slavery has stopped/ banned. Mental Slavery has Engulfed the whole world. Muslims are in absolute mental Slavery conditions. Until this barrier will not broken situation will remain same. Waiting for your visit to Pakistan.
To the management of The Black Hole, I would like to bring your attention that on this topic in broader sense, Dr. Roy Casagranda knowledge is also very deep regarding history and politics of it. kindly invite him as well someother time.
Before the 11th century, the Muslim world held supremacy in various fields such as philosophy, economy, and intellectualism. In contrast, Western Europe lacked an intellectual class and had a strong alliance between the clergy and the state. The Muslim world, however, had a vibrant intellectual and bourgeois class, with a separation between the religious and political domains.
Good Analysis
I think to have #BlackHoleVillages will be creating vital mindsets beyond the borders. In Sindh where I live, is avoided by the rulers so it doesn't have the money to invest in human behaviors. The Black Hole must invest in its physical outlets in different areas as well rather than targeting Islamabad
Prof. Is correct in saying intetallactual and and scientific backwardness existed in Muslim world that's why colonization of their countries happend.
Gilgit❤
The prescription is obvious: invest in human capital to spur innovation and technological excellence in the 21st Century - not gunpowder
Excellent session organised by "the black hole " hosted by dr.pervez Hoodboy.i really appreciate and admire dr.Hoodboy that he has taken initiative to start a intellectual debate in Pakistan and bring n introduce noble n scholars on electronic media.otherwise our electronic media was busy in rubbish businesses like politicians talk shows n nonsense stero type morning shows bringing tv stars and asking them stupid questions like how you start your morning then lunch n dinner n how you spent your weekend. Im sorry to say it is all rubbish n garbage.
ہم سب کے پاس بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ سے مِنَ الْجِنَّةِ وَ النَّاسِ تک عربی کے الفاظ میں القرآن موجود ہے جس کی ہم تلاوت کرتے ہیں ۔ لیکن تاریخ کے مطابق وہ قرآن موجود نہیں جو اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سے نازل ہونا شروع ہوا اور الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الْإِسْلَامَ دِينًا پر ختم ہوا ، جس کے لئے تمام روایاتِ متشھابھات نے جنم لیا ۔ اور پھر چھاپے پہ چھاپہ مارا جاتا رہا ۔ معذرت کے ساتھ ، یہ ڈاکٹر صاحب بھی کاپی اور پیسٹ کے ماہر بن گئے ہیں 🤭۔ (خالد مہاجرزادہ)
Parvez Hoodbuy's work is noble but he can not use freedom to express his inner most feelings and thoughts.