I agree! Such a sad commentary of the sport. She was amazing...her beam was so good too. The sport really let her down...he coach Beth put way too much pressure on her.
“A huge 70,000 square foot gym they’ve put all of their money into”. “A huge 70,000 square foot gym that Moceanu’s father forced Dominique to put all of HER money into, without her knowing”. There, I fixed it.
Just read her biography. Her floor here was the typical Pozar abomination. Fast forward to 1998 Goodwill Games, what a magnificent performance. Never even came close to her true potential.
Why is Kristy Powell in the "faces we don't know" portion of the intro? She won the 95 American Cup and was in the Olympic Trials. She would have been more known than Vanessa at this point in time.
forgot how truly atrocious the commentary was for this meet. wondering at what point the criticisms from the us announcers officially took over, bc this quad had to have been the worst. it really strips the joy and wonder from the incredible artistry and power.
I remember watching this when it first aired on TV and being shocked by how ill Lindsay Wing looked. "Slender and angular" my butt! She was definitely overtrained and underfed.
I know. It still amazes me that Vanessa's sup 9 beam score was referred to as "not disastrous" when just a year before that would have meant that her chances of finishing in the top five or ten were slim to none.
@@Kaya112345 Yeah but that routine would never get a score below 9 under the 93-96 code. At worst it might get a 9.6 like score, but probably not even that low.
I was watching one of her earlier meets today...and the announcers were talking about how Bela said "I just hope this is all too much, too fast." He worried about her getting so big and having so much pressure on her at a young age...it was just crazy to see this after watching that championship...
If you read her book about what went on following the olympics as far as her parents and coaching changes and everything that happened, I'm surprised she could even focus to compete in competitions. It was crazy. And such a shame, because with a better supportive environment and so much talent, I think we'd have have seen even more from her, only saw a shadow of her true potential.
+dusternina She seemed to be attempting a Kerri Strug copycat thing. She did sorta come to her senses w/ the coach though, bc the one from before seemed to be excessively selfish (T. Forester).
If these score was like they should have been 9.1 8.9 9.0 I think team USA would have move in a different direction sooner....... Alter burned out Maloney Burned out, Dominique was going through her family drama, Amy Chow should have started her comeback from here she would have been ready by 2000, the team doctor really took advantage of the girls from this cycle......... Idk why Powell didn’t continue
Bela is a horrible person and coach. He coaches these girls and puts so much pressure on them to win the all around, to be perfect like Nadia, and then when they don't live up to her name he retires and abandons them with no coach.
He had been coaching for at least 30 years by this time, and was certainly at retirement age. If he was ready to retire, it's his right to do so. Just like Simone's coach moved to another state for her husband's job, so Simone had to get a new coach, which she has done. Bela might have been of questionable character for other reasons, but retiring is not one of them IMO.
I agree with your first sentence! Him and Marta put too much pressure on all the girls. But then again, they started winning when their style started in the ranks. Here in 1999 Maroney is like 6.
A 9.6 for Dominique's floor routine? What a joke--missed dance elements, an incomplete triple...why bother inflating scores when she went to the Worlds and was ripped apart?
@@abrahamlora329 Actually her score was too low. She had a 10 start value and her form and technique was much better than Atler's who got in the 9.3s. She then hit Day 2 and got over 9.5 vs her 9.075 Day 1 so it seems she underscored on purpose.
true. Just curious if anyone knew what the reasoning behind the decision to operate with different rules was. I don't remember seeing this before at Nationals
As a follow up, the new age rules were known by 1994, so I still find it a little unusual that so many gymnasts who knew they would not be Worlds eligible competed as 'seniors'. Then again, Jennie Thompson competed as a senior in 1994 when she was ineligible for the Worlds team, so perhaps that was just the way things were done.
HAHA their fluff piece on Bela and Dominique is so ridiculous. She has a new coach, so what, but they are making it seem like someone died with that montage.
It was pathetic enough that her parents seemed to be living out their failed gymnastics dreams through her but they took shameful to whole new level by milking her accomplishments and notoriety. I didn't think it was possible to downshift from "the devil", but boy did her father ever! It's too bad she left Bela, bc it seeriously showed here. Her floor excercise was a major wtf showcase.
You’ve no idea what she’s been through with the Karolyis. They abused her and tortured her physically and mentally. Thank god she did not continue training with her. They’d have destroyed her in the end.
@@kalilea7170 I know people say that the karolys "aren't abusive just strict" because the other gymnasts like zmeskal didn't have anything bad to say about then but idk how people can forget how Dominique was treated smh. Her parents were enough but the karolys too? She deserved better
most of them look so pale and unwell, not to mention too underweight. the 'norm' for back then perhaps, but not compared to today - today gymnasts look so much stronger, healthier. loads more injuries back then too, which wont be a coincidence
@@nlm2183 it actually because you had to be 16 in the calendar year and dominique turned 16 before 1998 began so she was eligible, even though she was the youngest on the team
Lots of potential I don’t know if they were ready seemed rushed to be the next Olympics team and not as much experience, how do they follow the Magnificent Seven from ‘96 though? Lol
@@mulliganbrian Not until 2003. At the 2002 worlds the U.S won 2 individual golds and several medals. Even at the 2001 worlds they won a team bronze, had a 5th and 7th place finisher in the AA, and many event finalists so were on the road to recovery.
That was an amazing vault from Vanessa Atler. So much potential. I would have loved to seen her get a chance to compete on the new vaulting table.
I agree! Such a sad commentary of the sport. She was amazing...her beam was so good too. The sport really let her down...he coach Beth put way too much pressure on her.
“A huge 70,000 square foot gym they’ve put all of their money into”.
“A huge 70,000 square foot gym that Moceanu’s father forced Dominique to put all of HER money into, without her knowing”.
There, I fixed it.
Just read her biography. Her floor here was the typical Pozar abomination. Fast forward to 1998 Goodwill Games, what a magnificent performance. Never even came close to her true potential.
This was the beginning of the "dark ages" of artistic gymnastics.
I don’t think it was the beginning. It had been dark long before this too. I’m referring to the rampant abuse of the sport
Wow...that vault from Atler was so amazing
It always makes me sad to see Vanessa Atler. She was so gifted.
I'm trying to remember, what exactly happened to her?
@@saragrant9749 Was left off the 2000 Olympic team despite qualifying.
Nice to see someone actually catch a falling gymnast (4.03)
+thetigerbeat007 I know right? Nice reflex action there! :oP
"They've opened up 'Moceanu Gymnastics' it's 70000 square feet and they put all their money into it"
They put all HER money into it
Her parents were such horrible people. Im glad Dominique is all grown up now and away from that kind of toxicity
I miss the crushed velvet leos.
Why is Kristy Powell in the "faces we don't know" portion of the intro? She won the 95 American Cup and was in the Olympic Trials. She would have been more known than Vanessa at this point in time.
Or Kristen Maloney. She was at US Championships and Olympic Trials the year before.
forgot how truly atrocious the commentary was for this meet. wondering at what point the criticisms from the us announcers officially took over, bc this quad had to have been the worst. it really strips the joy and wonder from the incredible artistry and power.
Longest intro ever
Wow...that bar routine from Kristy Powell ..'chefs kiss' 💋 beautiful gymnastics
I remember watching this when it first aired on TV and being shocked by how ill Lindsay Wing looked. "Slender and angular" my butt! She was definitely overtrained and underfed.
Kristen Maloney's form on her balance beam leaps was seriously awful..
I honestly think it’s more of a parkettes thing, not a Maloney thing.
The karolyi fluffs just gross me out.
these scores are such a joke. This code of points spelled the beginning of the end to an amazing era of gymnastics.
Yep first code that was all about difficulty
I know. It still amazes me that Vanessa's sup 9 beam score was referred to as "not disastrous" when just a year before that would have meant that her chances of finishing in the top five or ten were slim to none.
@@Kaya112345 Yeah but that routine would never get a score below 9 under the 93-96 code. At worst it might get a 9.6 like score, but probably not even that low.
First year of no compulsories too.
I didn't watch the full broadcast but did they mention Hillary Grivich at all because they should have if they didn't.
I thought they were going to, but I didn't hear anything. But they did act like Bela had died late in minute 27:00.
What is the opening and closing music? I really like it.
David Arkenstone - The Quest of Culhwch
Elfie Schlegel clearly does not like Moceanu.
Elfi is horrible.
Dang, everyone was really struggling!!
I know! It was so painful to watch.
It's always like that when the season first starts off plus a lot of these girls were dealing with things behind the scenes
No wonder Dominique M went downhill right after the Olympics! She was working with her parents
I was watching one of her earlier meets today...and the announcers were talking about how Bela said "I just hope this is all too much, too fast." He worried about her getting so big and having so much pressure on her at a young age...it was just crazy to see this after watching that championship...
If you read her book about what went on following the olympics as far as her parents and coaching changes and everything that happened, I'm surprised she could even focus to compete in competitions. It was crazy. And such a shame, because with a better supportive environment and so much talent, I think we'd have have seen even more from her, only saw a shadow of her true potential.
I had no idea who V Atler was til this Championships. Now K Maloney I did due to get being a Senior the year before.
Inaccurate intro-- there were TWO national champions this year!
Powell is too young for that mom haircut
+dusternina She seemed to be attempting a Kerri Strug copycat thing. She did sorta come to her senses w/ the coach though, bc the one from before seemed to be excessively selfish (T. Forester).
I agree. However I do LOVE Mary Lee Tracy - and I think she was exactly what Kristy Powell needed at that time!!!
dusternina right she’s very 1950’s
@@Aizhaqueeni Tom Forester has always been an ass. I can't believe he is now in a prominent position in U.S gymnastics.
Hahahaha not the cheesy Bella-Dominique montage
If these score was like they should have been 9.1 8.9 9.0 I think team USA would have move in a different direction sooner....... Alter burned out Maloney Burned out, Dominique was going through her family drama, Amy Chow should have started her comeback from here she would have been ready by 2000, the team doctor really took advantage of the girls from this cycle......... Idk why Powell didn’t continue
Kristen Maloney first half of her floor music was Amanda Borden’s floor music
Bela is a horrible person and coach. He coaches these girls and puts so much pressure on them to win the all around, to be perfect like Nadia, and then when they don't live up to her name he retires and abandons them with no coach.
He had been coaching for at least 30 years by this time, and was certainly at retirement age. If he was ready to retire, it's his right to do so. Just like Simone's coach moved to another state for her husband's job, so Simone had to get a new coach, which she has done. Bela might have been of questionable character for other reasons, but retiring is not one of them IMO.
ajlove2013 a
I agree with your first sentence! Him and Marta put too much pressure on all the girls. But then again, they started winning when their style started in the ranks. Here in 1999 Maroney is like 6.
A 9.6 for Dominique's floor routine? What a joke--missed dance elements, an incomplete triple...why bother inflating scores when she went to the Worlds and was ripped apart?
Kind of ironic they bent over backwards to get her on this team and every team really and how it backfired in the end when she didn't get her own way.
Danny Bracco I was thinking this exact thing. Also, how Bhardwaj’s bars were scored here too was really weird
@@abrahamlora329 Actually her score was too low. She had a 10 start value and her form and technique was much better than Atler's who got in the 9.3s. She then hit Day 2 and got over 9.5 vs her 9.075 Day 1 so it seems she underscored on purpose.
That awful cheesy "I will remember you" segment with Bela Karoly is disgusting to watch, knowing what we now know. 🤢
Why didn't they show the first rotation??
A lot of times they didn't show first rotation due to TV coverage time, they use to mostly skip American Cup vault as well.
Vannessa Atler round off to double back on beam at 6:49 one foot almost comes off of the beam no wonder she crashed in 2000 poor technique
why do they do all the weird shit with their arms in between the moves?
Anyone know what was behind the reasoning of allowing the non-world eligible gymnasts [Atler, Wong, etc] to compete as seniors here?
sure. that's my question! why allow nonWorld eligible gymnasts to compete as the senior level?
true. Just curious if anyone knew what the reasoning behind the decision to operate with different rules was. I don't remember seeing this before at Nationals
Thanks for your response. I didn't realize the new age requirements were that late notice.
As a follow up, the new age rules were known by 1994, so I still find it a little unusual that so many gymnasts who knew they would not be Worlds eligible competed as 'seniors'. Then again, Jennie Thompson competed as a senior in 1994 when she was ineligible for the Worlds team, so perhaps that was just the way things were done.
HAHA their fluff piece on Bela and Dominique is so ridiculous. She has a new coach, so what, but they are making it seem like someone died with that montage.
Kristys hair 💚 that childish music tho.
God that opening fluff is gag inducing even for NBC standards.
Cmon this was 23 years ago lol. All the intros and fluff were sappy and dramatic back then. Its that exact reason why I remember it so well.
It was pathetic enough that her parents seemed to be living out their failed gymnastics dreams through her but they took shameful to whole new level by milking her accomplishments and notoriety. I didn't think it was possible to downshift from "the devil", but boy did her father ever! It's too bad she left Bela, bc it seeriously showed here. Her floor excercise was a major wtf showcase.
Bela retired so she could not go back. He wanted little to do with her.
Bela and Martha were abusive as everyone knows. They broke her. She hadn’t even begun to heal from that yet when this competition took place.
You’ve no idea what she’s been through with the Karolyis. They abused her and tortured her physically and mentally. Thank god she did not continue training with her. They’d have destroyed her in the end.
@@kalilea7170 I know people say that the karolys "aren't abusive just strict" because the other gymnasts like zmeskal didn't have anything bad to say about then but idk how people can forget how Dominique was treated smh. Her parents were enough but the karolys too? She deserved better
@@murasakino101 I don't take anything Kim zmeskal says seriously. She's a mean girl herself, so I'm just saying lol.
Omg dont play that clip of those married demon coaches bela and blech not being with DM.
most of them look so pale and unwell, not to mention too underweight. the 'norm' for back then perhaps, but not compared to today - today gymnasts look so much stronger, healthier. loads more injuries back then too, which wont be a coincidence
I think you're right but there's just as many if not more injuries now because they push difficulty so much :/
Right? Lindsay Wing looked like a talented gymnast but very rough around the edges, a bit unwell
Ok so if 16 was rule how did Moceanu who was 15 make Worlds team?
She was "grandfathered" in based on her being able to compete at the 95 world championships and 96 Olympics. The age rule was different then.
@@nlm2183 it actually because you had to be 16 in the calendar year and dominique turned 16 before 1998 began so she was eligible, even though she was the youngest on the team
30:50 wow
This was a very weak time in USA gymnastics in my opinion
pappysprite it was very dark time until 2003!
Lots of potential I don’t know if they were ready seemed rushed to be the next Olympics team and not as much experience, how do they follow the Magnificent Seven from ‘96 though? Lol
@@mulliganbrian Not until 2003. At the 2002 worlds the U.S won 2 individual golds and several medals. Even at the 2001 worlds they won a team bronze, had a 5th and 7th place finisher in the AA, and many event finalists so were on the road to recovery.
These people don't have any thing nice to say about any of the gymnast...
ZSomeone give Lindsey Wing a sandwich
What a horrible 90’s fluff 🤦🏼♀️ read her book to understand why
the intro is like so epic lol.but the leos were horrendous
Good God, L. Wing is built like a starving bird! She looks pitiful. And where IS Bela?!
+AJ McCane Bela was retired at the time. USAG convinced him to get out of retirement after USA struggled so badly at the 1999 Worlds.
I'm always amazed how negative these broad casters are. Damn. Give these people a break.