This One Simple Hub Motor eBike Upgrade Will Make Your Life 100x Easier
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- If you have an eBike with a hub motor, getting a flat on the rear wheel becomes a much bigger problem. This simple upgrade makes all the difference!
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All you need to do is snip the cable ties holding the wire to the swing arm to release the slack, then flip the wheel out while the wire is connected to the bike and do the necessary work next to the bike. I've done it a few times and it's a lot quicker and easier than you think! Quick tip is to fit tyre liners while the wheel is off. I've never had a flat in a year and a half.
yep what he said or if the wire is still too tight you could have also just laid the bike on it's side and unbolted the bottom shock bolt and swing arm bolt so you can spin the whole rear around to give slack to the motor wires. Everybody's got their own opinion :)
If thats a 19" rim I kept running into flats to then I put the Shinko 244 Dual Sport 2.75 19 inch motorcycle tires on mine and it don't go flat anymore. Matter of fact you can let the air all the way out and still ride home on it if you had too the rubber is so thick.
Excactly.
also, here is a pro tip, screw that terminal block junk and just get weatherproof connectors with as many pins as you need, then it is as simple as undoing the velcro holding down the wire on the swing arm and unplugging a connector, i got my parts from amazon hella cheap just for this purpose
*I was able to slide my rear wheel back enough to get axle off swing arm and I set tire on box and I changed tube no problem, I bought a motorcycle swing arm lift from Harbor Freight to lift tire off ground while removing rear tire, just in case anyone cares*
I was wondering about doing what ur doing so great video!
Thanks for sharing I will make the fittings in the beginning of my build.
I always snip my hub motors phase / hall wires close to the hub. glad im not the only one who thought of it. lol
My 4th time out on my e-bike I had a flat on the back so it sat for about 3 days wile I ordered liners, and I put about a pint of slime sealer in it and now I've ridden 1750 miles without a flat in a year and a half , heck my rear knobbie fat tire is wearing out so liners are a must , got them on front and back.too.
I think ill do something similar with the phase wires. Just today I wired mine up and it was tough getting them screws into the sabvoton amongst all the other wiring going on, so thank you for the tip. Also, for the pan that the frame comes with, I extended the depth with some vinyl floor tiles, sealed and screwed it together with JB weld and then covered it in vinyl wrap.
It looks the part and now covers the sabvoton.
wow nice solution using floor tiles! if your bike breaks down you can always call a contractor
OMG WHAT A OVERKILL ON WELD LOL
Great Video as always! Had issues with snapped valve stems too. I found that if the tire pressure was too low the high torque would spin the tire on the rim and drag the tube. I installed a rim lock and had no issues since.
makes sense! I had the tired deflated for trail riding before it happened
welp your crimper proved the more money than brains theory i had, a simple hammer type crimper is ten bucks at harbor freight and just as good as that thing if you smack it with a baby sledge
In just used a weather proof connector for the phase wires. I’ve changed the tube on mine without removing the wheel but just unbolting it and pushing it to one side. Easy!. Now I used Teflon tire strips and ride on tire sealant. Never had a flat again.
Better off using 6 or 8mm bullet connectors instead of those ring terminal things. If you have a thermal camera take a look at how hot it gets. Lots of resistance between the ring terminals and depending on what power your pushing can become a bottleneck point.
Plus the bullet connectors will prevent any oxidization for the connection.
Hey buddy I was thinking of putting on a wider tire on my Stealth Bomber couldn’t you just put the tube in from the one side where the phase wires aren’t on I was planning on putting it on the other side so I don’t have to do all that. The factory should of put on a disconnect so we don’t have to go through all that it sure would be nice if they would do that but another great job you did and you took your time and do it right. I really love watching your videos. Thanks so much for the video again buddy. Ride safe and God bless
thats halfwat there bro, i would build it almost the same with one huge ass difference, put another hub motor on the front so it is 2WD, it will be so much more capable offroad and much faster acceleration with less wasted wheelspin, its not too hard to wire it up but i think you will need a special controller
I always use extra thick goo tire tubes on as ll my e bikes due to experience of going thru alot of steps for flats.
Loads of torque is spinning rim inside the tyre causing the inner tube to spin and shear at the valve, motor x bikes have a tyre gripper on opposite side to valve looks just like a valve but it’s a nut and bolt going through the rim 👍
Used Bullet connectors on mine, but in 5 year with 2 bombers we've never had a shenko Moto tire go flat.
I love your ride, nice job on the build! When did you make it, I'm looking into building a very similar ride but it seems hard to source the parts. Do you happen to have a list of parts and where to get then, I'd love to learn more
I'm actually working on a video series where I take you through the whole process step-by-step with all theory and parts list but I don't have that together yet. message me on Instagram, I can send you some links @emot.os
Last week I had a flat to, I made a mt60 connector next to The motor
At the least, redo sensor wires with 6-pin (black) Julet connector cable to make it waterproof.
That’s a great idea
Where did you get the battery from
I am a fabricator and he did a lot of over kill mounting that box, I would have just drilled 2 holes in the frame and use self taping screws, bobs your uncle and it’s done.
Watching you change the tire and it came to the part where the actual problem was. You may need to look at possibly increasing tire pressure or having some sort of bead lock. It looks as though the tire may have slipped on the rim. A common problem using low pressure in tires either purposefully or not.
you can also use XT150 bullet connectors, they just pop together like a headphone jack, they are very hard to solder though for me anyway, although I had quite a lot of experience. The main problem I've had with mine is that the cable became damaged where it enters the hub, exposing the metal on one of the phase wires, cheaper hub motors come with a metal sheathe coil around their cables in that area but my QS205 did not.
I have been heating my XT150's on the hob , half filling them with solder and pushing the wire into the pin .A touch of flux on the tip of the cable will help pull solder into the wire.
Presolder wire end, presolder xt150. Then heat xt150 with a hot lighter flame and then it's easy
Run XT150s with shrink tubing or both sides of an xt90, those terminal blocks are usually called "yellow blocks of death" since they tend to fail at relatively low power levels on prebuilt scooters and bikes.
xt90 is rated too low for phase wire current which would be about 450A for this setup. Bullet connectors wouldn't quite cut it either unless you find some bulky ones, also the way they connect is subject to loosening over time. what is the issue with these blocks? the screws themselves don't actually carry any current..they're just there to hold the terminal lugs together. I guess I can see heating being an issue in which chase it wouldn't be too hard to fabricate something custom. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
@@GaiusGarage xt90s if you run both pins for the same line should be able to handle 450 amps temporarily but I still would use it as a last resort.
Xt150s are what I've been using for now till I decided to go to crimped eyelets. I think the main culprit for the failure on the terminal blocks was the soldered crappy eyelets from the factory so take my recommendation with a pinch of salt. Wish the people who made QS-10, and QS-8 connectors sold just the bullets as those would probably be ideal. Maybe they can be salvaged? But crimp is better than soldered when done correctly, like you did with a hydraulic one.
Otherwise your implementation seems best with crimped copper, there just needs to be a more heat resistant non-conductive enclosure, maybe anodized aluminum.
Love your build and the caution towards safety while maintaining functional usability all around.
@@darkchild256 thanks so much man! interesting idea about anodized aluminum - I know the oxide layer is non-conductive but wondering how easily it could be worn away
those yellow blocks.. I fear them, they are quite brittle and I have seen them crack in half or the corners split off, im still using it on my newest bike though as I needed a simple way to connect my controller to a weird triangle shaped phase wire connector, I don't know if they fail from heat but they do crack easily, maybe put some strong tape on the back of it so if it does split it won't fragment ?
@@ash0787 considering how half the comment are about how these blocks tend to fail I may design something myself - maybe 3D printed from PETG or maybe just 3D print a mold for some type of an epoxy solution
Keep a close eye on that terminal block. They dont handle high amperage well. I like to use qs 8 or qs 10 connectors instead.
someone else mentioned also - will definitely keep an eye. luckily it's easy to swap out so maybe I'll work on some custom fabricated solution
do they make a qs8 amperage in 3 pin vs 2?
@@plojm123 I'm pretty sure they don't come in a 3 circuit connector. I could be wrong but I haven't found any in the QS connectors.
@@skonyc3164 I just bought 3 pairs of 8mm golden bullet connectors I'll just shrink them
@@plojm123 that should do it. Try to stager them if you can. It will look cleaner and be less bulky and safer also.
If the rear arm was single on one side. Motor, hub and brake could stay on while you just unbolt the wheel from the motor, like a car. They have them in motorcycle world. Often time both stiffer and lighter then 2 arms. It would solve a lot of repair issues with hub motors.
Do you have a parts list for this bike that you could share? I love your videos btw. They are one of the most informative and best explained e-bike videos on TH-cam
Thank you! I do not have a parts list at the moment but working on a video series of a complete built for one of these that will include a parts list. stay tuned..
It's not one sensor. There are three (blue, green, yellow) , +5v (red), and ground (black). White wire is for speed sensor, if it has one. All sensors share power and signal ground. They already make round 9-pin waterproof plug cables for BLDC motors.
You might be able to hold the rim liner in place with some strong double sided tape or maybe an epoxy or other suitable adhesive. That should keep the liner in place...or just delay the problem of the liner moving/making the problem worse. There might be reasons beyond the bike manufacturer being cheap for why they don't glue liners in place.
I do wish Hub motor wheels had more options for NO spokes. Motor, weight and rough terrain take a toll on wheels meant for light bicycle. If they offered motorcycle wheels and spokes, that would be OK as well I think. But bike spokes are to light.
*Buy 3mm heavy duty tubes when replacing*
Or patch the tube without taking the wheel off? Add slime?
Cool bike, I wanna do one myself but cant decide on hub or middrive qs motor.
What do you like the most?
both have their advantages and drawbacks.. hub is cheaper, quieter, more simple, and you will have more versatility for mounting batteries within the frame but the drawbacks are the large unsprung weight at the back wheel, which affects performance, and issues like in this video where your back wheel becomes the locus point for your main powertrain with wires going to it etc. also the swingarm dropouts needs to be reinforced to handle the torque of the motor shaft. personally, I would prefer a mid-mounted motor and a normal wheel all things being equal but some projects, like a scooter or some basic land cruiser type of bike really is better with a simple hub motor
I dont remove wheel off bike to patch tube - just break bead on One side of tire - pull tube out around wheel - ( leave valve stem in rim if possible )
air up tube some to find hole /patch - check for thorn by rubbing panty hose inside tire ( will snag thorn) - stuff tube back in tire - spoon tire back on - air up -
I use this trick on all of my bikes
What IF you need to change the disk rotors??
The snip the cable ties on the swingarm and then take the wheel off change the tyre close to the bike so you don't have to disconnect anything else
try banana/bullet clips on you phases and up to u on how you deal with the hall.HAY i saw the end thats what i ment greattt job.
Low tire pressure and the motor torque made the tire slip on the rim taking the tube with it. The valve stem didn't go on the trip and you have a FLAT.
@Gaius Garage #gaiusgarage how did you put footpegs? i have this frame very curious
and what lenght rear shock?
I designed and 3D printed footpegs that fit into the crank where the foot pedals attach. the shock is 200mm
@@GaiusGarage thanks i was hoping 200mm wouldnt be too much. and dang that really cool i love your design
@@jamzychillz thank you! to be honest I think 190mm would be even better
Should use a quick disconnect like the xlr connector the water resistant ones
Too many AMPS/heat for julet connections
@@ianmangham4570 Juliet ? Too much for the aviation connectors gx16 ?
Single side swingarm?
Why couldn't you just squeeze the tire or tube thru on the right side? Or just fix the tube while on the wheel still on the motorcycle?
I don't think the phase wire harness was long enough to pull the wheel past the dropout to be able to pull the tire past the axel. but other than that, seems like it would get a bit precarious and stressful..changing the tire is cumbersome under ideal circumstances
To add to this, having the peace of mind of an easy removal makes this an investment for future repairs. Even if it did work once stressfully, if a flat blows on the side of the road, this would also make the same tire change in the future easier.
Exactly ive had seven punctures on my very similar bike! Ive never removed the phase wires to repair a pucture from the right hand side with ease!!!
Ok so you see where the phase wire runs along frame right there in the manufacture should have only made it about 5-8 inches then make a connector for them to meet that way when you have a flat you leave the rest of the wire that’s runs into the bike it’s one extra step but that extra step makes changing the tire a whole lot easier
2:33 lol never mind you got the right idea dude that’s exactly how I would do it godless that machine I’m running a 1200w ebikeling kit on a mongoose malus and it’s pretty ok I’m getting 35 out of it but what I spent to build that I could’ve spent just a bit more and did this 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻 such a cool bike
Standard feature on many bikes Engwe etc just unplug, no problen.
Amass do 3 pole connectors for this, much slimmer and pretty much water tight once covered in grease
there are better options than what I'm using but those amass 3 pole connectors would melt at the 450A phase current. certain bullet connectors would work but terminal lugs are the simplest and most robust solution
I know this video is quite old but….How did you mount those pegs?🤔
They are custom designed to fit directly to the pedal attachments on the crank cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various/footpegs-for-stealth-bomber-frame
How did you know that I do not need these cables? Doesn't everything in this bike have a specific job, with thanks
Exactly .I'd never cut the wires bad idea
Just cut zip ties half way up drop the wheel down put tire armour in it problem solved
How many hours did that take
I was able to hoist the bike with a folding ladder and get access to the tire without removing the battery. th-cam.com/video/IFlTxvxSUPg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TacticoolDennis I do feel that the hub motors should have some type of connector at the hub side so you can access for repairs or replace the cable since its in a very likely place to get damage from riding.
When I had such a Bike, my cables were longer so I didn't have this issue. Still such Heavy hubs aren't easy to work on it.
yeah its a real tradeoff
Is it not possible to go tubeless with your wheel? I run tubeless on all my bikes and most flats are fixed by simply cleaning and plugging the holes with tar impregnated rope and a cheap tool. Rarely, I'll get an un-pluggable hole in the sidewall but its really rare. You still have to replace worn out tires but just pointing out that tubeless could help you out a lot since most repairs can be done without removing the wheel.
I don't think it's possible with those rims. but tubeless is definitely better
@@GaiusGarage Cool, just passing on the tubeless option for your convenience. I've never run into a rim that couldn't be converted to tubeless but I'm sure there is plenty I've never seen before.
Oh already mentioned in comments my bad
The tube valve stem sheared because of the torque of that high power hub motor forcing the tire and tube to move on the rim. It will happen again unless you lock the tire to the rim so it won't move.
thats an interesting theory - but wouldnt any tire on a vehicle with high torque be subject to this problem? doesnt matter whether its a hub motor or chain drive or something else - from the perspective of the tire, it will always experience shear force. so why dont we see this happening more often? and now does one lock the tire to the rim? is this something they do on drag racers, for instance?
@@GaiusGarage Use a rim lock, google or search TH-cam for Motorcycle Rim Lock. They are used to stop valve stem from being sheared off from high power acceleration. Yes they lock the tire to rim on high power like drag racing so the rim does not spin in the tire but they also don't use a tube. You could also convert to tubeless or put a knurl on the inside lip of rim for tire bead to grab on to. Some people also screw the tire to the rim but doing that on a wheel with tube not recommended due to obvious reasons. You could put a couple of evenly spaced out weld bumps on inside rim bead to not throw wheel out of balance and dremel them to a sharp enough point to grab the tire bead for a DIY style but best way is to just get and install a rim lock.
@@fastjp72 ok I gochya. Appreciate the breakdown!
I never take my back wheel off,to repair a flat.
I have a qs273, just changed my rear tire for a better one. Just cut the zip ties on the swing arm you don't need to remove the wires don't need to be removed
I just did this very thing yesterday. Left the wires hooked up. Trouble was getting the bike to stay up. Only after I finished did I realize that I could have layed the bike on it's side.
@@marthamryglod291or put it up on a mid stand, or in my case a stack of bricks.🤷♂️
Couldn't you just just make a plugin for the phase wires that way you wouldn't have to do alot of unnecessary screwing / unscrewing connectors?
Yeah but you would need to find some bullet connectors that can handle the current. It's possible but I decided to go this route for simplicity
плохо ,что кабель идет с низу маятника
You do not need to take the tire off I have had 4 flat tires in the back tire and never taken off the wheel ! ! !
I think your idea is a greatone. However the impleentation is sketch. Shouldn't you run the phase wires up the swing arm, place the connection ON THE SIDE & MAKE A COVER!!!Bottom placement is a bad idea imnho Nice build ! I am a little jealous!!!
Thank you! running then through the swingarm would be alot extra work.. cutting holes & passing them through etc. I will have a cover for that connection block and probably 3D print something to cover the hall sensor connection too. Although I don't think it would be too much of the problem. You'd would have to keep an eye out for corrosion. I didn't use nickel plated copper for the lug so that is an issue
???????? you can just take out a little bit of inner tube, patch it and put it back inside outer tube, not even needed to remove the wheel, done it multiple times
Odd to attribute this to a "flaw with hub motors" when youre really just complaining about a particular build's design and connector usage.' there have been production hub motors with quick disconnects for years and tons of people adding quick disconnect plugs to their motor cables to facilitate wheel removal on diy forums for close to 2 decades. lots of better easier quicker options for this tbh.
You say Modular? Well it’s simple buy a mid drive motor
the original title of this video was going to be "why hub motors suck". there are a number of benefits but its definitely a tradeoff
Dude…you do know you can take the tire of both sides of the rim right????? 🤦♂️ take the tire off the right side ffs. Oh, and when you put it back on, leave slack in the wires zip tied up so there is room to take the wheel out of the dropouts. Smfh.
or I can just take the wheel off and change it like a normal tire
That connector will create a bottleneck for the amps, input 450 dc and 850 phase amps through my bomber so this fix would just melt if you have any kind of real power going through it, but I'm sure a sabvoton will be just fine...
the connection itself is across the terminal lugs, which I'm sure can handle a very large amount of current as long as they are pressed tightly together. The block is just there to provide a structure that holds the bolt on which the lugs are secured in place. But yeah, I'm not sure what the temperature threshold is for that block before it starts to deform. That said, if that connection is heating up enough to melt that block, there's probably too much resistance in the connection to begin with
@@GaiusGarage Maybe add some contact spray onto the bolts ? That would prevent corrosion and help electric contact ?